Crime

What About ‘Black-on-Black’ Crime?

Raising "black-on-black crime" right now is not a sincere attempt to improve the lot of African-Americans.

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Al Sharpton
Thomas Good / Wikimedia Commons

The shooting of Michael Brown and its turbulent aftermath have renewed an old question: Why does the black community raise a ruckus when a white person kills a black person, which is rare, but not when a black person kills a black person, which is far less rare?

It's a complaint perennially lodged by conservative commentators. Jason Riley, an African-American editorial writer for The Wall Street Journal, criticized the Rev. Al Sharpton's appearance in Ferguson, Missouri. "The problem is not cops shooting blacks but blacks shooting each other," he asserted. Yet "so-called black leaders are much more interested in making excuses for this behavior than they are in denouncing it unequivocally."

"What about black-on-black violence?" demanded Fox News anchor Martha MacCallum, who is white. "Where is Al Sharpton on that? Where is the president on that?"

Funny you should ask. Sharpton made a publicized trip to Chicago in November to focus attention on the city's chronic violence. Last year, Michelle Obama attended the funeral of Hadiya Pendleton, a 15-year-old black honor student who was shot, allegedly by a black gang member.

The first lady later returned to Chicago to converse with students at a school that is nearly 100 percent African-American. "In choosing Harper High School for the visit, the White House noted that 29 current or former students there had been shot in the last year, eight of them fatally," reported the Chicago Tribune.

The president also traveled to Chicago, meeting with kids involved in a mentoring program for at-risk adolescent boys, bemoaning gun violence and telling a crowd on the South Side, "Our streets will only be as safe as our schools are strong and our families are sound."

Doesn't sound like they've been ignoring or excusing this sort of violence. Plenty of black leaders and organizations in Chicago and elsewhere spend a lot of time and energy trying to prevent crime in their communities. There are rallies, conferences, prayer vigils and gun turn-in days. Last year, thousands of volunteers manned "Safe Passage" routes to get children to school unharmed.

Have Riley and MacCallum and other critics publicized those events and programs? If not, why not? If so, why do they now act as though they don't exist?

Their charges have more than a whiff of condescension—implying that most blacks are unable to discern the greatest ills afflicting them. But black leaders can walk and chew gum at the same time. They can work to curb violence by blacks against blacks and also work to prevent the killing of unarmed African-Americans by police and vigilantes. Both are deeply undesirable.

It's no secret that rates of violent crime are far higher among blacks than among whites. What is generally overlooked is that these rates have dropped sharply over the past two decades. The Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice reports that violent crime by young blacks has plunged 60 percent.

In 1995, the FBI reports, 9,074 blacks were arrested for homicide. In 2012, the number was 4,203—a decline of 54 percent. But conservatives don't labor endlessly to publicize that trend.

Nor do they often mention what USA Today reports: "Nearly two times a week in the United States, a white police officer killed a black person during a seven-year period ending in 2012, according to the most recent accounts of justifiable homicide reported to the FBI."

There's another, bigger problem with the preoccupation with "black-on-black crime." The term suggests race is the only important factor. Most crimes are committed by males, but we don't refer to "male-on-male crime." Whites in the South are substantially more prone to homicide than those in New England, but no one laments "Southerner-on-Southerner crime." Why does crime involving people of African descent deserve its own special category?

The phrase stems from a desire to excuse whites from any role in changing the conditions that breed disorder and delinquency in poor black areas. It carries the message that blacks are to blame for the crime that afflicts them—and that only they can eliminate it. Whites are spared any responsibility in the cause or the cure.

Excluding them from complicity is harder to do when the killer is white and the killed is black, as in the shooting in Ferguson. Raising "black-on-black crime" right now is not a sincere attempt to improve the lot of African-Americans. It's a way to change the subject and a way to blame them.

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178 responses to “What About ‘Black-on-Black’ Crime?

  1. Well, what about it?

  2. Whites in the South are substantially more prone to homicide than those in New England, but no one laments “Southerner-on-Southerner crime.”

    It’s the heat. High temperatures correlate with increased violence in a population, all other factors consistant. Besides, most New Englanders are afraid of their own shadow, and probably think violent crime is rising.

    1. Global Warming is murder !

        1. What an article. I’m speechless in the face of such stupidity. It’s like a stupid storm howling so loudly that I can’t hear myself think.

      1. But each one you kill reduces their carbon footprint. I think we should get carbon credits for that.

    2. Now about the fact that the population of the South is much larger than that of New Englanc.

      1. I’ll kill you for point that out!
        Also where is new Englanc?

        1. What is that rule when you correct someone’s typo and you have a typo in your correction?

          1. It’s required to typo when pointing out typoes.

      2. That’s irrelevant if we’re discussing probability

    3. I’ve always saud if you want peace in the middle east supply everyone air containing and cable tv. Jihad today Muhammoud? No Muhammoud, too hot today. Gonna stay inside and watch stupid Americans on Jerry Springer.

      1. That was brutal to read.

    4. Correlation and causation. How the fuck does it work?

    5. Aother factor that is all over the place where there are people, is the illegal laws of prohibiting other intoxicants that people are going to use regardless of some arbitrary illegal law(s). Ending these illegal prohibitions will curb a lot of the motivations for homicides, from both the citizens and the cops.

  3. Why does crime involving people of African descent deserve its own special category?

    Have you not already pointed this out? It is raised as a response to perceived over-reaction to a “white on black” crime (White Hispanic, anyone?).

    All in all a very Chapmanesque offering.

    1. All in all a very Chapmanesque offering.

      If you mean guaranteed not to offend the Chicago Trib readership/editorial board, then yes.

    2. My point exactly. This argument is not raised in isolation. It is raised in response to those, like the panel of “experts” I heard yesterday on NPR, who’s immediate response to an incident like this is to declare it evidence of “rampant racism” in American society.

      If there is a “whiff of condescension” in talking about “black on black” crime, it is merely a response to the overwhelmingly offensive odor every white person being accused of harboring racial hatred in his or her heart.

      Frankly, the issue here is police misconduct, and both sides of the “black on black” debate are diverting attention from the real issue for their own purposes.

  4. “The problem is not cops shooting blacks but blacks shooting each other,”

    Absolutely wrong. There are two problems here: Cops shooting blacks (and everyone else). A separate problem is blacks shooting each other. Just because you have a broken arm doesn’t mean your diabetes has disappeared.

    And lemme just float this: If there is one place in this country where racism is still an embedded feature of the institutional culture, its police departments. I tend to discount charges of institutional racism just about automatically, but I think the race hustlers have a point when they say the cops are racist. Because I think they are, and there are mountains of data to support it.

    1. And lemme just float this: If there is one place in this country where racism is still an embedded feature of the institutional culture, its police departments. government agencies, the politicians that support them and the media that promotes them

      FIFY.

    2. no, the race hustlers don’t have such a point. The biggest threat facing young black males is other young black males. Crime states speak for themselves but the hustlers choose to remains deaf. They also ignore that the shooting in Ferguson was followed by looting, as if that is what anyone should expect from the black community.

      Cops have a problem with itchy trigger fingers, an authority complex, and an environment virtually free of accountability. But the blanket charge of racist! ignores blacks who are LEOs, like the Detroit police chief who is all for citizens having weapons of their own. It also ignores the legion of HandR stories about whites killed by police douchebaggery.

      1. The biggest threat facing young black males is other young black males.

        Which is perfectly consistent with police departments being the last remaining haven of institutional racism.

        You do have a point, that I was a little overgeneral, and should have thrown in some qualifiers: “some cops are racist”; “many police departments are as good an example of institutionalized racism as you can find these days”, etc.

        If you disagree with these assertions as modified, please feel free to do so.

        Or if you disagree that there aren’t two problems, and want to take the position that, because black-on-black crime is a problem, racist cops and PDs aren’t a problem, go right ahead.

  5. You know something, I have to admit that I have, to some extent, been guilty of this.

    This event has sealed it for me. The “what about black-on-black murder” meme is pure dodge and pure deflection.

    1. I agree.

    2. I disagree. I believe that the cop that shot this guy should be shot in the face without a bazooka.

      However, black-on-black crime kills far more blacks than anything whitey could ever do to them.

      We have people like Al Sharpton to blame for that. The so-called black leaders of today would be bitch-slapped into submission by MLK if he were alive today.

      Blacks in Missouri and everywhere around the country should be marching on capital hill for the death and destruction that the State has wrought on the black community.

      Why any black in America would vote for the Democratic party, a party that has done everything in its power to ruin the black family and the black community, is being comprehension. Not that voting Republican would be much better.

  6. I think white people are to blame–the condescending white anti-American progressive left is to blame for perpetuating the sense of helplessness and victimhood within black communities for the left’s own gain, whether power, greed, emotional appeasement, or all three. Do not underestimate the core of left wing ideology–that the US is the center of all crimes and inhumanity against non-whites. This narrative MUST be preserved in order of members of the left to live without questioning their warped world view.

    1. I blame it on black blood.

      1. I thought we all agreed that all hemoglobin is the same color.

        1. They’re all pink inside, amirite?

  7. Sharpton made a publicized trip to Chicago in November to focus attention on the city’s chronic violence.

    My God, I hope the man is getting over these vast, exhaustive efforts at helping self promotion!

  8. There is a real problem of some “leaders” focusing on the evils of Whitey as opposed to bad laws, police culture, and indeed the dysfunctional culture (not unique to blacks) which incubates antisocial behavior.

    Of course the Sharptons and the Obamas. won’t deny that “black on black crime” exists – they would forfeit their support if they ignored this entirely. They’ll have their “rallies against crime” and their gun buybacks. And Fox and the other media outlets should acknowledge this.

    But this doesn’t change the fact that, given the chance, they’ll racebait maniacally. It’s not as if the “anti-crime rallies” and gun buybacks somehow cancel out the “Justice 4 Trayvon” and “white cop shoots ‘gentle giant'” narratives.

    Chapman’s argument that Sharpton, et. al. balance out their race-baiting with non-race-baiting activities is like the joke about the man accused of rape. His lawyer said to him, “they have five witnesses who said you committed this rape.” The man replied, “so what, I have twenty witnesses who *didn’t* see me do it!”

  9. “What about black-on-black violence?”

    It’s a missed opportunity I tell ya. We could give out free handguns and then install web cameras all over the place. We could make shit loads of money off all the hits that would generate.

  10. “Jason Riley, an African-American editorial writer for The Wall Street Journal, criticized the Rev. Al Sharpton’s appearance in Ferguson, Missouri…
    Their charges have more than a whiff of condescension?implying that most blacks are unable to discern the greatest ills afflicting them.”

    So, a black dude criticizes another black dude about his priorities and it somehow turns into “implying that most blacks are unable to discern”. This is a crock of shit, implying Chapman doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.

  11. What About ‘Black-on-Black’ Crime?

    Doesn’t support the race bater’s narrative or goals, so it goes straight down the memory hole.

  12. Again, why does Reason publish Chapman? At best, his articles do nothing other than voice a lament. At worst, he’s an outright progressive.

    1. Somebody had to replace Weigel.

  13. Another aggravation is that when the focus is on the problem of black on black violence, the solution is always the same: get guns off the street (which really means take guns from all citizens). The police solution to black on black violence is gun confiscation.

    But when it is police on black violence, what is the solution? Disarm the police? No.

    1. But when it is police on black violence, what is the solution?

      Mo’ money.

      1. And mine resistant vehicles

        1. And bigger prison.

          This list could go on forever, at the bottom you’ll find the emaciated remains of the tax payer.

  14. For a solid half century it has been beaten into every cranium in America that any problem a black person has is caused by white people, all of whom are racists, especially those whites who don’t know they’re racists. Great numbers of agitators, politicians, academics and the rest of the verbal industries have made their careers whooping up this idea. It is now a religiously held belief, impervious to observation or reason

    To say that some problems of black people are in fact caused by other black people is a heresy that never goes unpunished and hence remains unsaid in polite company.

  15. “”””The phrase stems from a desire to excuse whites from any role in changing the conditions that breed disorder and delinquency in poor black areas. It carries the message that blacks are to blame for the crime that afflicts them?and that only they can eliminate it. Whites are spared any responsibility in the cause or the cure.”””

    I am responsible for crimes I commit. I am not responsible for crimes that others commit.

    1. True that.

      And when a black person pulls the trigger a black person is responsible for pulling the trigger.

    2. True, yet somehow the taxpayer always pays the settlement for police brutality.

  16. The president also traveled to Chicago, meeting with kids involved in a mentoring program for at-risk adolescent boys, bemoaning gun violence and telling a crowd on the South Side, “Our streets will only be as safe as our schools are strong and our families are sound.”

    How touching. So Chapman, just out of curiosity, when is your hero Obama going to “act alone” to end the Drug War?

    Because surely it can’t be his deep, abiding for the Constitution and the rule of law that is preventing him from doing so after five and a half years as president. After all, he’s not afraid to “act alone” to take over General Motors, or to regulate coal-fired power plants, or to change the provisions of the Affordable Care Act after it has already been passed, etcetera etcetera.

  17. This column reinforces why one of my favorite phrases is, “Steve Chapman is on vacation this week.”

    I’m not gonna get into the details – a couple nuggets of “truth” buried in a steaming pile. I don’t feel like digging. Typical Chapman.

    1. Chapman or Richman, who’s worse? Hard to tell. Avoid Reason writers whose names end with “man.”

      1. Avoid Reason commentors with “man” in their handles.

        1. Be Safe! Avoid comments with the word man in them!

          1. Then I call for all posts to provide mandatory trigger warnings !

  18. “…prayer vigils and gun turn-in days” to fight black on black crime. How about this instead, “Forgive me Father for I have sinned. Instead being beat, raped or murdered, I shot the guy who attacked me. Let’s have a vigil for him, cuz I’m still here.”

  19. Yes black “leaders” ocassionaly give lip service to black on black crime.

    Unfortunately for poor blacks, black on black crime doesn’t pay as well as white on black crime and until it does it won’t receive the attention it deserves. Jessah Jackson actually tried to pass a collection plate while giving a speech the other day in Fergueson. Thankfully he was soundly booed by the crowd, it was reported.

    The Twana Brawley case “made” Rev. Al a household name under the show biz premise, all publicity is good publicity.

    Without the Twana Brawley job, Rev Al might not be on TV today.

  20. More importantly, what about white ties on black shirts? Discuss.

    1. Only if you play trombone in a ska band.

        1. -1 Special

  21. when the biggest threat to young black men is other young black men, everything else is a sideshow. It’s a legacy of the Great Society because things were not always thus.

    1. Excellent point: Prior to the Great Society young black men didn’t kill each other left and right. Prior to the minimum wage blacks weren’t unemployed in record numbers. Prior tot he welfare state single black mothers (as well as single white mothers) were rare.

      Of course, statists will argue that there is no direct correlation between them. It’s all merely a coincidence.

      To try to claim that young black men being shot by the police is what’s holding down black America is obscene. It’s like #4,594 on the list of causes. Yet, the police and George Zimmerman are responsible for it. At least that’s what “black leaders” like Al Sharpton would have us believe.

      1. Make no mistake: I believe that many police officers should be water boarded for their crimes against the individuals of this country. However, people like Al Sharpton should be bitch-slapped into submission for the damage they have done to the black community.

        1. +1000

        2. Sowell, at the end of the day, is just too much of a Lincoln apologist and one must take that into account.

          Furthermore, he doesn’t emphasize, as he should, the fact that the rest of the West did not need to engage in genocidal madness in order to end slavery.

          That is why Sowell is just INFERIOR to the likes of Tom DiLorenzo and Butler Shaffer and Lew Rockwell and Tom Woods and William Norman Grigg and Bionic Mosquito and Justin Raimondo and Wendy McElroy and Jeff Berwick and Ron Paul.

          1. If you are familiar with Sowell’s writings (as I am very familiar with them), as well as another black intellectual that statists think of as an Uncle Tom (The legendary Walter Williams) you will see that he does not blame cops and George Zimmerman for the destruction of the black family. He blames government and the black family itself. He blames so-called “black leaders” like Al Sharpton.

            And rightly so.

            1. Other than Tony or shriek, who here would deny that the race baiters like the Reverends Al and Jesse are a problem?

              Again, other than Tony or shriek, who here would deny that the government is, as usual, the primary culprit?

              But, the government entails all that which AC set forth above.

              Nevertheless, if one is a Lincoln apologist, that has to be held against one.

              1. Why do you hate Lincoln so much?

                1. For starters?

                  How about the fact that he was a mass murderer whom you know who often praised for his relentless brutality and his willingness to purposely target little boys and little girls and the women folk.

                2. Lincoln was a state aggrandizer of the highest order. This makes him piece of shit. He fought a war to prevent a legal secession, this makes him a piece of shit. He helped repopularize the ancient genocidal practice of targeting civilians to instill fear, this makes him a piece of shit. I could go on.

          2. If a heroic presidency is one that gets so many killed, I’d hate to see what an unsuccessful presidency looked like.

            What I can’t understand in the discussion of Lincoln is that there were some 600,000 military killed and over a million causalities. Even if one believes that some good came from the Civil War “maintaining the union” or that the slaves would not have been freed otherwise, how can that record be considered a heroic success? How can Lincoln be considered a hero? Was a million casualties to end slavery and maintain the Union really the best that any leader could have done?

            I’ve read accounts leading up to the Civil War and see a lot of possible outcomes and leadership decisions that may have resulted in both the same outcomes and fewer or no casualties. Now that would have perhaps been great leadership.

            1. Was a million casualties to end slavery and maintain the Union really the best that any leader could have done?

              He could’ve simply stopped subsidizing the existence of slavery. And there’s the fact that basically every other country abolished slavery without murdering hundreds of thousands of people to do it. The war had nothing to do with slavery.

              1. Exactly my thought, your posts make me feel normal and less radical.

                What gets me is even if someone is a Statist, how can they believe Lincoln was great? Maybe mediocre in the, “look, anyone would have had to go to war!” Okay, fine, anyone would have won the war because on paper the Union was much better able to execute a war. Greatness would have to be doing something special, that nobody else would have thought possible.

                Unless Presidents get their greatness by body bag count, then some other more objective standard should be used for ‘greatness’. Perhaps the lack of body bags?

                1. You know that a person does not have jack shit when they start hurling “neo-confederate” or “slavery apologists” and the like at you when you write the truth about their precious Saint Abraham.

                  What guys like Dee Brown, long ago, and Prof. DiLorenzo do is remind us that Lincoln was the architect of the genocidal plan to exterminate the Plains Indians.

    2. And ninety percent of the purpose of all the sideshow theatrics is to get people sufficiently angry and riled up to go out to the polls and pull that big ‘D’ lever.

  22. I find police on innocent citizen crime the most disturbing. because of the lack of accountability.

  23. The reason is the same reason why in its 60 years of existence, UNRWA has failed to succeed in alleviating the plight of Palestinian refugees…there is too much profit to be made in the status quo.

    As an aside, the UN has two agencies devoted to helping refugees; UNRWA for Palestinians and UNHCR for everyone else. I wonder what that hidden variable is that separates a 3rd generation Palestinian refugee from say, a Nepalese refugee from Bhutan, or Dinka refugee from Sudan, or a Syrian Alawite refugee?

    1. They have their own PR agents?

      1. There is a lot to be said for that. When was the last time you read about the massive displacement of around 200,000 Muslim “Seleka” supporters in the Central African Republic in a major media source…much less have it be the lead headline?

        1. Unfortunately for them, the CAR isn’t a proxy for the rest of the Middle East and Western interests, unlike the Gaza Strip.

    2. the UN is the same group that honchoed the food for oil program that had such tangible benefits for everyday Iraqis. Oh, wait…

      1. Was the food for oil program the one that also served as a rape vacation program for family members of UN honchos? Or am I thinking of some African aid program?

        1. The pedophile Peacekeepers was the French intervention in Mali, if I remember correctly.

  24. “Why does crime involving people of African descent deserve its own special category?”

    Probably because blacks commit a VASTLY disproportionate amount of crime than other races/cultures. Blacks are more than seven times as likely as people of other races to commit murder, eight times more likely to commit robbery and three times more likely to use a gun in a crime. While only 13% percent of the US population, blacks commit 55% of murders, and 61% of robberies. Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit violent crime against a white person than vice versa, 136 times more likely to commit robbery, and black-on-white rape is 115 times more common than the reverse. That probably explains why they get shot by the cops and armed citizens more often too.

    Queue the cries of “Racism” in 3…2…1…

    1. Racist! Did I beat the buzzer?

    2. So, the assertions you make are predicated upon what, irrefutable, source?

      If you rely upon “statistics” promulgated by the state, what does that say about your intellectual integrity?

      1. It’s from Jared Taylor’s monograph “The Color of Crime”. As for intellectual integrity, I’m sure Taylor would have appreciated at least an in-text cite.

        1. HM, the source of Mr. Taylor’s stats?

          1. Ahhh…there’s the rub! 😉

          2. Eric Holder’s DoJ.

            1. As the last edition of the monograph was published in 2005, surely you mean Reno and Ashcroft’s.

              Jus’ sayin’

              1. Last time I checked, it’s been Holder’s DoJ for about as long as Bush has been out of office. Is he responsible for the DoJ and it’s published statistics, or not?

  25. This the kind of argument that people attribute to libertarians to dismiss them as simple contrarians, like that kid in the back of class in high school who’s entire objective is to prove he’s different from everyone else, even if he has to argue something stupid to do it. If you have to go to this absurdity to find a new angle on the story, maybe just write about something else.

    It’s like arguing that we spend most of our energy addressing people being killed by rabid skunks because it happens sometimes.

  26. If you want to put anaerobes dent into “black on black” crime,you can start by legalizing all sorts of shit that puts blacks into the criminal justice system disproportionately to other races.

    You create criminals by making bad laws,and then when their opportunities to enter mainstream society are radically limited due to the criminal record, they resort to what the system has taught them to be: more criminal.

    1. the system taught them to do a lot of things, many of those detrimental to the well being of a community. It’s as if govt policy was meant to create and then perpetuate certain problems.

      1. I just want to know how “a serious” autocorrected to “anaerobes”.

        1. racist squirrels.

        2. anaerobes dent

          Cool user name.

        3. I thought Anaerobes Dent was the drummer for Infant Sorrow.

    2. I’m pretty sure that laws against murder, robbery, and rape are not “bad laws”.

    3. “you can start by legalizing all sorts of shit that puts blacks into the criminal justice system disproportionately to other races.”

      Whaaaat ?

      So, pot, robbery, burglery, and carjacking are all legal for white people ?

      Who knew ?

      Boy am I looking forward to the weekend !

  27. Furthermore, if the self-described leaders of the black community gave even the slightest of fucks about cop on black violence, they’d be screaming from the rooftops to have cop unions either abolished or have their collective bargaining restricted solely to wages.

    But that would ostracize them from their Democrat base and align them with the same people who oppose the other social justice giveaways they claim are their right.

    1. Communism never works

  28. The problem boils down to the war on drugs. What percentage of black on black murdet is related to drug prohibition? 90%? And then you have the American Taliban going around these neighborhoods shaken down every young black man also mostly due to the war on drugs. People see that shit in the neighborhood day in and day out so when a cop shoots a black kids hell yess there not waiting on facts to pick sides. If you

    1. If you get rid of all these petty vice laws and focus on actual fucking crimes you might start getting some respect and even support in black neighborhoods.

      1. All that being said. The looting is just a crime of opportunity. That a seperate issue.

        1. Yes and that also ignores the fact that those same laws apply to white kids and I don’t know of any rioting and looting as a result.

          Here is a nice tidbit for Reason Regulars. A white unarmed thug was shot by police for being belligerent. Read the mainstream newspaper report and compare it to the headlines that came out of Fergeson. Notice the difference. Then read the articles in sites like WND and others for comparison.

          The paper never mentioned the cop was black.

          They are quick to state the victim had a record and wasn’t a 20 year old angel.

          From the paper… “or what actions by Taylor ? verbal or physical ? were deemed threatening enough for police to fire at least twice.”

          The reporter seems to say that “verbal actions” are sufficient grounds for a cop to shoot someone. I guess these days they are.

          Here is a funny comment at a different site.

          “To: Cubs Fan
          Going to loot some Pinot Nior, White Bucks, some cardigans, and maybe a new putter.”

          1. Whether or not the same victimless crime laws apply to both whites and black misses the point of the OP. Unless you are making the argument that the drug war isn’t having disproportionately negative impact in poor black communities?

            The OP described a system that once the downward spiral began it worsened in certain areas and certain communities. A beginning of a cure would seem to be to get rid of one of the original causes. I’d agree.

            1. Freddy I am not making the argument that the WODs is not having a disproportionately negative impact on the poor blacks.

              It is. But it’s not because the laws are racist. This shouldn’t be a race based conversation. The laws are the laws. It’s the actions of the diferent groups involved that account for the disparity.

              Standing on a street corner pushing product is one of the reasons that more black kids get arressted for pushing than white kids etc. etc.

              Freddy I wasn’t responding to the OP. I was responding to the poster who’s comment mine is subordinate to.

              What percentage of all murders, black and white, is WOD based ?

              I also agree with getting rid of the root cause of the problem.

              The gubmint has proved that the WOD is unwinnable. Let’s just hope they don’t try to employ a “surge” tactic.

              Peace out.

      2. Hear ! Hear !

    2. In Chicago, “70 percent of all non-fatal shootings occur in networks comprising less than 6 percent of Chicago’s total population”.

      The articles doesn’t say it, but I suspect that these “networks” are actually gangs.

      1. ‘hoods or areas

        1. The social networks sprawl Chicago:

          The thing that really shocked me was how connected the city was as a whole. The largest component, the big network in the city, is like 106,000 people. That includes people of different races, from different parts of the community. (The study I’m working on now actually looks not at the connections between individuals, but between neighborhoods.)

          It means that the city is connected in crime in a much more complicated way than just being spatially next to each other. I anticipated that you would have a bunch of small networks?this neighborhood, this park, South Side, North Side, all the things we usually think about. But what you see is that there are these connections that bind this world together. But it’s not some kind of organized crime syndicate. We’re talking about everyday interactions?small stuff that links people together. I never thought you’d have such a massive chunk of the city connected to each other.

  29. Why does crime involving people of African descent deserve its own special category?

    Inflammatory Statement Incoming! Trigger Warning! TRIGGER WARNING!!!!!

    Because the American male of African descent is livestock in America.

    The War on Drug-Users and its symbiotic relationship with the legal-prison-industrial complex, and the resultant expansions in the size, scope, and powers of departments and agencies associated with them, and creates a disaster, especially when you have other black people who actively glorify violence as an acceptable path to wealth and fame. What you have are interested parties who, not only are profited by black men killing each other and engaging in illegal acts, but a decrease in such acts would be detrimental to their livelihoods. And the creation of permanent underclass that can be perpetually fed to this complex secures the wealth and careers of lawyers, cops, judges, social workers, prison COs, wardens, construction companies, parole officers, politicians, and special interest groups.

    So, after going on too long, the reason talking about black-on-black crime is frowned upon by “the right sort of people” is because, in reality, black crime is making too many people too much money for them to ever take effective steps to curb black crime. The black male is livestock, that is to say, a cash cow, for too many people.

    1. Accurate. Depressing.

    2. So it’s a conspiracy? Unintended consequences are actually the machinations of a cabal of entrenched interests who just want to keep the black man down. Sounds absurd, I don’t buy it.

      1. You’ve never heard of Unions? Or just not sure how they work?

        1. I’m not sure how they work to be honest. I thought unions just fight to give their workers fair representation.

          1. And they also lobby for more War on Drugs, more prisons, more cops, disarming citizens, more government. Politicians love to get the endorsement of cop unions. It gives them cover for increasing all aspects of the State.

          2. Try joining the Pipefitter’s Union without being related to another member of the Pipefitter’s Union.

          3. I thought unions just fight to give their workers fair representation.

            Sarcasm?

            1. That might possibly apply to some private sector unions if you use the word fair very loosly. It certainly doesn’t apply to any public sector unions which are all about power and money for the leadership and their patrons in dc.

    3. I like how you took the point I was trying to make at the same time to a whole…’nother…level:)

    4. Here’s the problem with your theory:

      1. The black culture is already as fucked up as a soup sandwich. Adding cheap, legally obtained drugs will do nothing to improve it. In fact, it will have the opposite effect. The “cash cow” will simply change from the “legal-prison-industrial complex” breed, to the “health-care, social-welfare, social-worker, mandatory-drug-rehab/resort” breed.

      2.Drug use and other criminal activity are all VOLUNTARY. The act of “actively glorify violence as an acceptable path to wealth and fame” is VOLUNTARY. Getting involved in shit that perpetuates “the creation of permanent underclass that can be perpetually fed to this complex secures the wealth and careers of lawyers, cops, judges, social workers, prison COs, wardens, construction companies, parole officers, politicians, and special interest groups” is VOLUNTARY.

      The premise that blacks just can’t keep from doing illegal shit so the system takes advantage of them perpetuates the “soft bigotry of low expectations”.

      1. Sieg Heil

        1. Well then, that’s close enough to Godwin’s law for me. Fuck off.

      2. Or maybe if you statists stopped “helping” them they would be much better off. You can’t destroy your lives! That’s our job to destroy your lives!

        1. What’s your fucking point; that everyone is responsible for the demise of black society except blacks?

          Oh trust me, I’d love nothing better than to stop involuntarily “helping” everyone, regardless of race, with my money.

      3. Yes it’s voluntary but if the drugs were cheap like you say, no one would have to volunteer to steal as much, or as often, to get them.

        1. While that’s true, a cheap, legal stupor does little to improve an already dysfunctional society. Why not just pass out free 40’s to everyone in the hood?

          1. It’s not for you to say whether someone puts themselves into a stupor or not. You don’t own them. Outside of the black/white discussion, ending victimless ‘crimes’ is the ethical thing to do.

            1. As long as I pay taxes, and part of that money goes to support ANYONE who didn’t earn it, I fucking damn well do have a say. You CANNOT have “legalized” drugs, and a welfare state. Personally, I don’t care if someone wants to inject heroin into their left nut, AS LONG AS NOBODY EXPECTS ME TO PAY ONE FUCKING DIME to pick up the pieces. The day you’re ready to let drug abusers die in the gutter rather than “help” them with my fucking money, is the day I’ll back legalizing all drugs.

          2. Actually it will do a lot to improve a dysfunctional society.

            A whole lot less of them will be in prison or laying on the concrete bleeding out.

  30. I admit I did not read the article. After the last load of Chapman shit, I couldn’t bear to.

    From the lead in; “…most blacks are unable to discern the greatest ills afflicting them.”

    They can discern them fine. Most just aren’t interested in doing so. When you sow discord for a living it is good strategy to tell the people you want on your side what they want to hear, that it is not their fault. Asking them to take personal responsibility does not sell well.

    ” They can work to curb violence by blacks against blacks and also work to prevent the killing of unarmed African-Americans by police and vigilantes.”

    Yeah, but they aren’t going to.

  31. Since it’s Chapman, I’m guessing the answer is more policemen with more powerful weaponry and extra-Constitutional powers.

  32. These statistics are hard to compare. Police run about 0.6% to 0.1% of the population correlating roughly to the population density. Black male adults make up about 4% of the population, highly unevenly distributed, but between 20% and 1% not as well correlated to population density. I would say that they are far more equivalent than the spin most people are trying to put on them.

  33. To me this kinda sounds like the stupid “Where are the right-wing militia members from the Bundy Ranch? Why aren’t they in Missouri taking on a phalanx of armored cops with automatic rifles?”

    It’s racially divisive and serves little more purpose than that.

    1. More racially divisive than the juxtaposition of how government agents treat peaceful protesters in one place vs. armed insurrectionists in another?

      1. That’s government for ya’!

          1. I’ve read enough of Tony to doubt that Tony sees how the irony in his comment and the irony in the picture are the same.

      2. nothing says peaceful like rioting and looting. And nothing says liberal cognitive dissonance by excusing criminality in a way that implies the left expects nothing better from blacks. By the way, there was nothing racial about the core of the Bundy episode; it was about grazing.

        1. By the way, there was nothing racial about the core of the Bundy episode; it was about grazing.

          But…but…Bundy said something incredibly tone-deaf about African Americans and the culture of poverty!

          That absolutely justifies the Federal government confiscation of his land under threat of deadly force.

        2. But it was peaceful to point guns at government agents?

      3. More racially divisive than the juxtaposition of how government agents treat peaceful protesters in one place vs. armed insurrectionists in another?

        Do you think the massive brigade of well-armed cops from all over the area plus the National Guard are going to let a few dozen rednecks with guns accomplish anything? The two situations are actually pretty damned different.

      4. What peaceful protests are you talking about ?

  34. Many of you don’t appear to have read the article. Or have the slightest interest in looking at the actual numbers.

    Since that’s too much work, how about a little philosophical point: Either society (meaning largely white people, who have most of the power and always have) is responsible for disproportionate problems the black communities, or there is something about black people that makes them disproportionately prone to having these problems. If you believe the latter, what is that something, and what do you propose to do about it?

    1. I’ll go with the former – society, specifically The Great Society and subsequent state-based programs, have failed blacks on a massive scale. At some point, people will think the left did that on purpose.

      1. They did – refer to LBJ’s infamous quote: “I’ll have those ni**ers voting Democratic for the next 200 years”.

      2. I’ll go with both. You have to look pretty damn hard to find a successful nation or even a large municipality run by blacks. It’s not a “race” thing, it’s a culture thing, and it’s called “tribalism”.

    2. Seems like a false choice, one could easily say both. That is, the state is exacerbating underlying problems.

    3. Either society (meaning largely white people, who have most of the power and always have)

      I’m white and I have zero power.

      1. I’m white and I choose not to solve all the problems of the world with my vast powers. Why? Because I’m white.

      2. Ask the Irish, Poles, and Italians how much power “white people” have.

        The truth is that there is not one ethnic group around the world that didn’t take it in the shorts at some point.

        1. For a long time Italians weren’t considered “white”.

          1. Some are olive skinned sooooooo….. Off-white?

          2. My Nonu couldn’t join the union because he wasn’t white… so a buddy found him a spot in an IBM computer class (1940’s/1950’s) and got his first job on the basis of that training.

    4. Tony:

      Either society (meaning largely white people, who have most of the power and always have) is responsible for disproportionate problems the black communities, or there is something about black people that makes them disproportionately prone to having these problems.

      So, basically, the idea is that black people’s problems are either:
      1. white power
      2. you’re a racist

      What a simplistic view.

      1. So you tell me.

        Saying it’s the way those people raise their kids is racist, btw.

  35. Black people are 14 percent of America’s population but make up 50 percent of our homicide victims and 53 percent of those convicted of murder, per the FBI’s 2012 stats.

    I would argue that yes, just as “black leaders can walk and chew gum at the same time” those of us who are not “black leaders” can also be concerned not only about police brutality and racial disparities in the justice system, but also how over-represented black Americans are on both sides of the homicide equation.

    1. According to some here, “If you rely upon “statistics” promulgated by the state…” you may have questionable “intellectual integrity”. You see, black culture can’t possibly be the issue here, so it must be that the entire US Government is involved in a vast conspiracy to put the black man down.

      1. I’m not sure I wouldn’t go that far, although I wouldn’t put it past the government. One thing is for sure: The US government sure isn’t interesting in helping the black man get up.

        At least more people are starting to realize that the State is the cause of most of the problems in the world. That is a positive sign.

        1. Also, those who dismiss statistics promulgated by the state when it fits their agenda are merely statists if they differ to the State when it suits their fancy: You either trust the State or you don’t. For example: The government can’t be run by lying sociopaths when it comes to domestic policy, yet magically transform into angelic beings when it comes to foreign policy. If you can’t trust them (the government) then you can’t trust them. Period.

  36. Many of you don’t appear to have read the article.

    Of course not. Chapman’s a fucking idiot.

    I never read his drivel.

  37. Either society (meaning largely white people, who have most of the power and always have) is responsible for disproportionate problems the black communities,

    I blame LBJ.

    1. LBJ and those you supported his Great Society ARE, at least partially, to blame.

      1. Especially since there were a few honest people, like Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who predicted some of the disastrous results it would bring about.

  38. Chapman is Bo?

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  40. I don’t understand if this article is being sarcastic or what. He thinks one visit by Michelle and Sharpton each to Chicago absolved them of the BLACK on BLACK crime scourge. Blacks are EIGHT times more likely to commit homicide. They are 15 TIMES more likely to be murdered by another black than a white person. HOW MANY ARTICLES HAS Steve Chapman written about blacks murdering blacks? Has he embedded himself in the community to research this topic? YEAH, that is what I thought.

    Facts are horrible things when they are purposely AVOIDED by writers like Chapman.

  41. Doesn’t sound like they’ve been ignoring or excusing this sort of violence.

    Of course it does. You know what it sounds like when an Hispanic guy kills a black guy out of fear for his life because that black guy is pounding his head into the concrete? A nationaly scandal that literally fills the airwaves for months. When a cop who is being beaten defends himself against a severe beating erupts in a nationwide scandal and over a week of teeth gnashing and rioting. What you’ve just mentioned about showing concerns about black on black violence are mere whispers about black on black crime, which dwarfs anything other race on black crime, which creates cacophony of noise drowning out those whispers.

    Let me know when the country is going to get up in arms or even mention Rodrick Scott, a man everyone said couldn’t exist. Let me know when the beatings of innocent whites by blacks becomes a national scandal. Let me know when Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom become household names the way Trayvon Martin is. Let me know when the national and local news outlets run non-stop stories about Joshua Chellew.

  42. Plenty of black leaders and organizations in Chicago and elsewhere spend a lot of time and energy trying to prevent crime in their communities.

    So? There are “plenty” of people doing lots of things. Congratulations for finding some of them. This doesn’t change the fact that anti-black racism from whites is clearly NOT a major concern for black community safety, where as the blase attitude many blacks have about about life and peace are HUGE concerns.

    You expose yourself AGAIN for being just another race hustler trying to make a buck off white guilt and portraying whites as the racists they are not.

  43. The phrase stems from a desire to excuse whites from any role in changing the conditions that breed disorder and delinquency in poor black areas. It carries the message that blacks are to blame for the crime that afflicts them?and that only they can eliminate it. Whites are spared any responsibility in the cause or the cure.

    I don’t see what responsibility I have for what’s going on in Ferguson just because my skin happens to be light. Nor, for that matter, is what is going on in Ferguson representative of black Americans either; most of the black Americans in Ferguson aren’t participating and probably want for this whole nonsense to end so that they can get back to their lives.

    What all of this is related to is to politicians and organizations that make money by sowing racial discord and don’t care a bit about the violence and harm they are causing.

  44. Nor do they often mention what USA Today reports: “Nearly two times a week in the United States, a white police officer killed a black person during a seven-year period ending in 2012, according to the most recent accounts of justifiable homicide reported to the FBI.”

    Citing numbers like that out of context is seems intended to inflame, not inform.

    Police officers in the US kill a bit more than one person a day on average (about 400 per year), almost all of them lawful killings according to our laws, judges, juries, etc. Blacks are overrepresented among those killings relative to their percentage in the population, but that is the wrong statistic to compare it to. The right statistic to compare it to is how often blacks are suspects in violent crimes, because that’s what causes people to be exposed to the threat of deadly force; relative to that, they are killed actually at a slightly lower rate than whites. Charges that the use of deadly force by police is racist don’t stand up to scrutiny.

    Should we reduce the number of police killings? Police killings are about as frequent as getting killed by lightning, so it’s not clear that it’s something people need to worry about. Furthermore, it’s hard to come up with good policies to do better; as far as I can tell, other countries achieve lower rates of police killings by accepting more violent crime and by giving their police more power.

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  46. What about…BLACK ON WHITE CRIME? WHERE’S THE OUTRAGE? WHY IS THEIR A LACK OF HATE CRIME CHARGES? WHY SO LITTLE NEWS COVERAGE? WHY IS BLACK RACISM TOLERATED?

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