Special Episode of The Independents with Special Guest Katherine Mangu-Ward

Watch a special bonus Independents show with Matt Welch, Kennedy, Kmele Foster and Reason's Katherine Mangu-Ward NOW.

Comments

[Heroic Mulatto]

SHENANIGANS!

[Antilles]

Mmmmm...Katherine Mangu-Ward...love her!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

A "special episode?"

I would invest the time in coming up with a joke about that, if I could be sure it wouldn't be deleted.

[NebulousFocus]

Wait, this is live? What's going on here?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Mine is just showing the flag background.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

There it is...oh, joy...well, let me see what they [bleep] up.

[NebulousFocus]

Same.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

A rerun!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

OK, I'll acknowledge that they told a good joke.

[NebulousFocus]

Rerun. WTF.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

aaaaand, it cut off.

[Sevo]

Run on the same servers as the web site!

[C. Anacreon]

No hot naked babes of lawsuit abuse?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

?

[C. Anacreon]

I guess you didn't get the same ad before the streaming video that I did. "The Amazing Faces of Lawsuit Abuse".

[Carl ?s his privilege]

Posted by Nick and not Matt? What is this???

Anyway: After Italy Loss, China's 'Team Killer' Breaks Down in Tears

After being blamed by legions of tearful sports fans for dooming their favorite teams, a popular Chinese sports anchor is shedding tears of her own.

China Central Television's Liu Yuxi, previously celebrated by hordes of male Internet users as "history's most beautiful TV host," has recently gained fame for another quality: Her uncanny ability to pick losers in major sports tournaments.

Talk of a Liu Yuxi curse began during this year's NBA playoffs. Whichever team's jersey the anchor wore inevitably found itself eliminated from the tournament, earning her the nickname the "team killer." She continued her streak in the early days of the World Cup, donning a Spain jersey on the day the defending champions were bludgeoned 5 to 1 by the Netherlands.

...

But on Monday, she was back at it ? this time donning a Uruguay jersey in an apparent attempt to aid their opponents, Italy. This time, however, Ms. Liu's magic touch failed. Italy fell to Uruguay 0-1 in a match marred by an incident in which Luis Su?rez appeared to bite Giorgio Chiellini. In the post-match wrap-up, Ms. Liu removed her ear piece, saying she couldn't take the sad music the station had decided to play.

[NebulousFocus]

Nick trolling?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Well, to make up for that big letdown, here's an English subtitled version of Jinyiwei (aka 14 Blades).

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I'm viewing what appear to be the good parts. I'm skipping the stuff with plot, romance, and the like, I hope that won't hurt.

[Heroic Mulatto]

It's a thriller, so you really shouldn't skip the plot details.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

That's quite a challenge to my attention span...I may want to wait till I'm together with some buddies and watch it together.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Cool. I highly recommend it. As a bit of context, the Jinyiwei were the secret police of the Ming Dynasty. So with the lead character (Donnie Yen), there is a whole "The 'Good' Nazi" thing going on with him.

[Sevo]

You are a brave man trying to find the good guys in the Ming dynasty.

[Heroic Mulatto]

If there was a "good guy" in the Ming, it was the Jianwen Emperor, he of course, was burned to death before he could truly reign...but still.

[Sevo]

Awright.
I'm reading regarding IC engines right now, but you're gonna make me drag out Chinese history, you louse!
Gimme a day or two.

[Sidd Finch v2.01]

Interesting. You were sure that torque isn't a function of hosepower and RPM (because torque wrench) without bothering to read about engines (or high school physics).

[Sidd Finch v2.01]

Stagevu has a bunch of old kung fu movies in Divx.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Reposted:

I'm going to do what everyone else is doing, starting today.

My web donation this year starts at $500. Every time there is a problem with the website, I'll deduct $50.

I'll show my math at donation time.

[Mint Berry Crunch]

Does a "negative donation" mean The Jacket owes you money?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It's in the social contract.

[Mint Berry Crunch]

Cool!

My donation starts at zero. And every time I click "Preview" and get that stupid empty box, the Koch Brothers owe me.......I don't know. A factory, or something.

[jesse.in.mb]

The Jacket signed nothing!

[Raven Nation]

This, right?

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/i.....713178.jpg

[Sevo]

"My web donation this year starts at $500. Every time there is a problem with the website, I'll deduct $50."

Man! You mean BUSINESS!

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'll make an exception. If these website problems turn out to be a deliberate act, I'll waive the $50 deduction and direct my anger towards the responsible party.

[Sevo]

No foolin' at this end; my contribution will show last years' amount and the deductions.
Hit 'em in the wallet.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

After my last year's donation, none of the stuff ever showed up. No magazine subscription, no t-shirt.

There's a good chance that they confused me with my brother, who also donated. He gets mail from Reason Foundation that is addressed to me, although it used to come here. Whoops.

[Raven Nation]

Well, that definitely sucks. I've had occasion to e-mail their subscription department and had pretty good, quick responses.

[Sevo]

Email 'em that their comment function sucks and you ain't paying what you paid last year for miserable service.
I'm knocking $10 off every time it craps out; $310 now and no foolin'
Fix it or lose money.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I don't read the print anymore, so it's better that way. Great publication, though. My dad introduced it to me in high school.

[Bill Dalasio]

Your brother wouldn't be a doctor, by any chance?

[GILMORE]

SPECIAL GUESTS ON SPECIAL SHOWS SO *SPECIAL*!!

I think they felt like "not enough was screwed up today on this site, so what we should do is get nick - who still has the most credibility of anyone associated with this rag! - and have him throw a fake to the disappointed audience that a 'special' show was happening which actually isn't, because then? Then they'll forget all about how the website doesn't really work! GENIUS!!

[Sevo]

GILMORE,
See above; if you are a contributor, make it clear that your contribution is being cut.
This is amateurish in the extreme.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Yeah, GILMORE. Are you a contributor, other than free fashion advice?

[GILMORE]

Are you suggesting my fashion advice is not a major contributor to....

...uh....

No. (hides in shame)

[Carl ?s his privilege]

sheesh

[jesse.in.mb]

Sometimes it's good to know the rest of the internet is also deeply misanthropic.

[Warrren]

Blah.

[Irish]

The other day, HM and I discussed the insanity of 'libertarian' Gary North. Well, he's also apparently a 9/11 truther.

This is like the 20th worst thing about him.

And here's Gary North whining that Milton Friedman wasn't libertarian enough because he supported vouchers instead of full school privatization.

Given that Gary North believes all religions other than Christianity should be outlawed, I am not sure he should be the arbiter of libertarianism.

[Irish]

Also:

North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,[22] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.[23] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.[24][25] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates [homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."[26]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblical approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.[27][28]

But Friedman wasn't libertarian enough because he favored vouchers!

The fact that Rockwell lets this guy publish on his site is pretty damning of the Rothbardian/Rockwell brand of libertarianism.

[jesse.in.mb]

Didn't Jesus take care of this pretty effectively with the "he without sin cast the first stone" bit?

Stitch "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." onto that and he's gonna have a hard time finding people to throw rocks.

[Irish]

Whatever, Jesse. You're just lucky we haven't stoned you to death yet, you filthy sodomite.*

*Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[jesse.in.mb]

I had a wiffle ball and a foam football thrown at me repeatedly yesterday. We can call it a symbolic stoning, I can get back to my whoring and y'all can get back to your moralizing, no?

[Sevo]

Hope you threw 'em back.

[jesse.in.mb]

Definitely. Although that just seemed to perpetuate the circle of violence.

[Sevo]

Throw 'em harder! The hell with the 'circle'; make it hurt until they don't throw 'em back.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It was my kids doing the throwing, ages 6 and 2. The 2 year old throws hardest.

[jesse.in.mb]

Better accuracy too.

[Warrren]

I'm not going to stone you, you gots to buy your own weed bitch!

[Heroic Mulatto]

Still, this is hilarious.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

The Friedman/Rothbard division is a serious one in our community. It isn't just that "Friedman supported vouchers" that hardcore Austrians reject Friedman and the positivist Chicago school.

North is an old-school contrarian, a fundamentalist social dinosaur of the sort that would've populated JBS meetings fifty years ago. Even so, he's written voluminously and tirelessly on Mises for longer than most ancaps have been alive and has torn into statists for decades, which is why the Rockwell/Rothbard contingent didn't alienate him. I don't like the fact that Paul and Woods have some affiliation with him with their homeschool program, but I can understand why they don't just excise him from the movement altogether, as that would be antithetical to the principles of thin libertarianism and they'd be harming the crazy uncle of the movement who's been around for 50 years.

I suspect that almost all ancaps know he's crazy, whether that's the Catholic ancap contingent or the atheistic one, but being crazy and rejecting taxation as immoral is less problematic for the intellectual foundations of libertarianism than is pretending that Friedman had a firm commitment to self ownership and the NAP.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

None of that's to say that I don't respect Friedman or value him as a popular and immensely valuable contributor to the development of libertarianism or one of the finest debaters of the 20th century, but it's a mistake to think that his school of practical libertarianism is more valuable to the movement than the explicitly philosophical tradition that we have in the Rothbard/Mises or Randian schools. Everyone has a role to play.

[Irish]

I suspect that almost all ancaps know he's crazy, whether that's the Catholic ancap contingent or the atheistic one, but being crazy and rejecting taxation as immoral is less problematic for the intellectual foundations of libertarianism than is pretending that Friedman had a firm commitment to self ownership and the NAP.

Wait, it's less problematic to be pro-voucher than pro-stoning gays?

Which of those is a greater violation of the NAP?

[Knarf Yenrab!]

You seem to think that Rockwell signs off on North's fundamentalism as in accordance with the NAP because he publishes his writings on economics. North is a Misesian, Rockwell is a Misesian. Rockwell doesn't publish North because he's a doctrinaire NAP-believing libertarian, he publishes him because he defends--loudly and often--the economic methodology of the Rothbardian tradition.

If you doubt that, you could email Rockwell or Woods about the issue and ask.

[Irish]

Even so, he's written voluminously and tirelessly on Mises for longer than most ancaps have been alive and has torn into statists for decades, which is why the Rockwell/Rothbard contingent didn't alienate him.

I'm going to have to call serious bullshit. He's arguing in favor of Christian theocracy and has for a long period of time. He wants massive state involvement in a number of moral issues.

You don't get to claim he's 'torn into statists' when he wants the state to put adulterers to death.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

I'm going to have to call serious bullshit. He's arguing in favor of Christian theocracy and has for a long period of time. He wants massive state involvement in a number of moral issues.

You don't get to claim he's 'torn into statists' when he wants the state to put adulterers to death.

You can call whatever you want. North knows Mises, he knows economics, and that's why he's valuable to the Austrian movement.

You can be angry that Rockwell doesn't stand in his ancap pulpit and condemn Gary for believing crazy things and not being an anarchist, but the issue is that you don't seem to understand *why* North's writings on Austrianism and Mises make him a closer ally to Rockwell and Rothbard than a positivist like Friedman.

[Irish]

Okay. Let's look at a few of your posts:

I suspect that almost all ancaps know he's crazy, whether that's the Catholic ancap contingent or the atheistic one, but being crazy and rejecting taxation as immoral is less problematic for the intellectual foundations of libertarianism than is pretending that Friedman had a firm commitment to self ownership and the NAP.

You say that he's 'less problematic' than Friedman because Friedman didn't have a firm commitment to the NAP.

Well, Gary North is arguing in favor of state sponsored executions of gay people.

Explain to me how exactly he can claim to be an anti-statist while advocating such positions. Vouchers are clearly less statist than theocracy.

You can argue that Friedman wasn't a true libertarian all you want, and to some extent I'll agree with you, but your argument as to why Rockwell/Rothbard would reject Friedman and welcome North is frankly absurd. North is a raving theocratic statist, he just happens to adore the state when it enforces his chosen policies. How does this make him different than the average progressive? Fuck, how does it make him different from the average Islamic fundamentalist?

[Knarf Yenrab!]

You're riled up tonight. You're also right that I was conflating a few different things and spoke imprecisely, so let me be as precise as I can by using brief, declarative sentences.

North has been a defender of Mises for a long time. North has been a defender of Paul for a long time. North is an Austrian, even if he's not an NAP libertarian. He's written literal tomes on Misesian economics.

Rockwell/Rothbard don't agree that a future theocracy or stoning gays would be libertarian. 100%. The paleos don't disown North because he's an old ally, and there's not bad blood there. If you were to ask them about his religious beliefs, you'd get a lot of foot-shuffling from the old ancap guard. The new ones tend to view North as a whackjob that we're better off without, as his presence leads to discussions like this that tend to tear communities apart. I'm not defending North; I'm defending Woods and Rockwell for not disowning North, as I understand why they don't purge him even if I don't agree with it.

OTOH, there's bad blood between Austrians and other libertarian wings: the Mises/Friedman rift was partly personal, as the Austrians are thin-skinned. The split between Rothbard and the Kochs and the Rothbard/Rand fights are also personal. All of which is why the paleos are hard on Friedman/Chicago or Objectivists or CATO or Reason while keeping a kook like North around. But it doesn't follow that they believe North's religious views are compatible with Rothbardian self ownership.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc.....anarchism/

In case there was any doubt about whether North was a Rothbardian ancap rather than a Misesian.

[Bill Dalasio]

OTOH, there's bad blood between Austrians and other libertarian wings...All of which is why the paleos are hard on Friedman/Chicago or Objectivists or CATO or Reason while keeping a kook like North around.

But what you're saying, then, is that the Austrians are basically a cult, more focused on loyalty to the collective than the legitimacy of ideas.

[Carl ?s his privilege]

That would be all well and good if Austrians were valuable to the libertarian movement.

*ducks, throws grenade, engages cosmo vs. paleo mode*

[GILMORE]

This is why I just skip all the fucking nerd-cred philosophy part of libertoidszism, and stick with policy.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

Policy is watching voters who have little incentive to learn anything about government elect the most charming centrist sociopaths. At least in political philosophy we can have fights that aspire to intelligence.

[GILMORE]

Says you. Policy is advocating things that make sense, not because they tick off the right boxes in a 'philosophically consistent' checklist, per se. If they do = more to the good.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

Debating policy is like debating weather.

[Bill Dalasio]

How the hell is carrying on a fight over "bad blood" rather than substantive issues aspiring to intelligence?

[Pathogen]

Soo.. he's actively campaigning to be the next Westborough Baptist church minister?

[Sidd Finch v2.01]

I looked at all those citations.

22 is a reference to dead trees.
23 links to two articles at three batshit sites by one author. Neither has a citation for the claims.
24 is a 404.
25 links to an article by North criticizing vigilantism.
26 is a religious claim having nothing to do with government.
27 is a 404.
28 says "Gary North favors stoning, largely because of the widespread availability of rocks and their low cost." No context or citation is provided.

[jesse.in.mb]

Walter Olson wrote about Reconstructionism, Dooney and North for Reason in 1998.

Reconstructionists provide the most enthusiastic constituency for stoning since the Taliban seized Kabul. "Why stoning?" asks North. "There are many reasons. First, the implements of execution are available to everyone at virtually no cost." Thrift and ubiquity aside, "executions are community projects--not with spectators who watch a professional executioner do `his' duty, but rather with actual participants." You might even say that like square dances or quilting bees, they represent the kind of hands-on neighborliness so often missed in this impersonal era. "That modern Christians never consider the possibility of the reintroduction of stoning for capital crimes," North continues, "indicates how thoroughly humanistic concepts of punishment have influenced the thinking of Christians." And he may be right about that last point, you know.

No citation given, but this seems to be a regular enough talking point of North's.

[Irish]

Vox.com: Who even gives a fuck about a 2.9% GDP contraction?

Broadly speaking, the job market isn't growing as fast as we'd like it, but it didn't seem to pull back in the first quarter.

Yeah, because we've had atrocious job growth for 5 years. Saying 'our job growth in the first quarter wasn't that much worse than last year' doesn't mean much when job growth was horrible last year.

Weather accounted for somewhere between 50 and 100 percent of the GDP pullback, says PNC senior economist Gus Faucher. When polar vortexes and multiple feet of snow keep people stuck at home, they just can't get out to buy groceries or see the doctor. That's only a temporary hit to the economy ? everyone has to go to the doctor and buy food again at some point.

Does Vox think people stopped eating for the first quarter of 2014?

Some economists foresee an annual rate of growth of 3.5 or even 4 percent in the second quarter.

Are these the same economists who were shocked by the 2.9% contraction in the first quarter? This is like claiming we shouldn't worry about the plague because the witch doctors assure us all is well.

[Warrren]

Proggies prog.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

SOLID job growth of nearly 200k/mo. SOLID. What's that? Population growth? Don't believe in it. SOLID.

"This is like claiming we shouldn't worry about the plague because the witch doctors assure us all is well."

Needs more leeches.

[jesse.in.mb]

Leeches are neat!

Also Medical Maggots? are a thing.

[Pathogen]

It.. sickens. me..

[jesse.in.mb]

Which one?

The maggot therapy is actually really impressive because they only target necrotic tissue, clearing the way for healthy tissue to grow back and minimizing chance of infection as your flesh rots at the edge of a wound. A few years ago I read that when maggots and leeches are brought in for therapy people grow fond of them and tend to name them, which I find truly bizarre.

[Sevo]

"The maggot therapy is actually really impressive because they only target necrotic tissue, clearing the way for healthy tissue to grow back and minimizing chance of infection as your flesh rots at the edge of a wound"

Claiming total ignorance in the specifics, do maggots carry the wee beasties flies collect?

[jesse.in.mb]

No. They're lab grown and sterile (well as much as a living organism can be). They eat until they're full then become medical waste and are replaced by a fresh batch.

[Sevo]

Sounds like someone is putting results before fantasy.

[GILMORE]

Their "Explanatory Journalism" strangely sounds remarkably like Party Propaganda that tries to spin every detail up to and including the weather into "how this means our Leader is Amazing and Why Our Opponents Should Die Now!"

[Sevo]

..."Broadly speaking, the job market isn't growing as fast as we'd like it,"...

'Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, could you please tell us what you thought of the play?'

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

My comment:
Who even gives a fuck about a 2.9% GDP contraction?"
My Quicken Cloud gave a huge fuck. It was really angry at the stock market today.

Was rejected. "You have made too many comments. Please try again later"
$500-$50=$450
Ball's in your court, Reason.com

[Irish]

Why are people getting that message? I haven't had any problem posting today.

[Sevo]

You were fortunate.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

I haven't been able to post at ALL today. Fucking squirrels.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Holy shit it got through! Oh frabulous joy!

[MJGreen]

Vox and Klein's cabal are among those phenomena that I suspect is a big inside joke that the world is playing on me.

[Irish]

Ezra Klein chats with Nancy Pelosi.

Enjoy.

[Raven Nation]

I haven't drunk enough yet for you to get me to click on that.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Yet? Don't try, it's unpossible.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Good way to lose your liver...

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"An Unconstitutional Bill from Rand Paul?...

"...Congress has no authority to pass such [felon-voting] legislation, and if Senator Paul proposes it, I am sorry to say that he has shown himself to be someone who does not take the Constitution seriously....

"If he does introduce such a bill, then, with all due respect, voters must draw the appropriate conclusions about him and how seriously he takes his oath of office. I hope he reconsiders."

http://www.nationalreview.com/.....oger-clegg

[Irish]

There is common misconception among today's Libertarians that they support the Federalist concept of constitutional government. They do not. They are the successors of the anti-Federalist who opposed the 1787 document. They oppose most Article I powers given to the central government.

Such as? There are some hardcore libertarians who oppose things like standing armies, but I don't think there are many libertarians who oppose the article I powers that are granted to the central government, they just believe those article I powers have been made far too expansive by flawed judicial arguments.

The Constitution does not define a weak central government. It created a limited central government with strong powers in those limited areas. Today's faux Libertarians are not on board with republican government. At best they prefer the tyranny of pure Democracy or are anarchists like Murray Rothbard. Our Faux Libertarians are just Wobblies with a middle/upper middle class outlook.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! When I think of libertarians, I know my first thought is that they simply adore the tyranny of the majority.

[Irish]

On the bright side, someone over there apparently is a big fan of us:

If he took his whack-o-bird followers as far away from the GOP as possible, it would be a good thing. What matters is persuading decent, clear-thinking Reason Magazine style libertarians that the Pauls are not their sort and the best future for freedom-minded folk is to co-opt the GOP in the same fashion as the New Left have co-opted the Dems since 1972.

I have some serious fucking problems with Ron Paul, particularly the company he chooses to keep, but I think Rand has pretty similar views to most people here.

[Heroic Mulatto]

but I think Rand has pretty similar views to most people here.

No. As a Ch'an Buddhist, I find Rand's heterodox Aqua Buddhism to be heretical and completely alien to what I hold to be most important.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

As a Ch'an Buddhist

It's okay to punch (down) Joe in the face provided that you make a koan of it for the purposes of his education. That's why Rinzai is so great--you get to beat the shit out of people for their own edification.

[Sevo]

"What matters is persuading decent, clear-thinking Reason Magazine style libertarians that the Pauls are not their sort"

Romancing who, here? That turd shreek?

[MJGreen]

Rand Paul's not our sort. But... Jeb Bush is? Ted Cruz?

Uh-huh.

[PapayaSF]

What matters is persuading decent, clear-thinking Reason Magazine style libertarians that the Pauls are not their sort and the best future for freedom-minded folk is to co-opt the GOP in the same fashion as the New Left have co-opted the Dems since 1972.

I thought the Pauls were "freedom-minded folk co-opting the GOP."

[Sevo]

From the link:
"But there is no credible argument that disenfranchising felons violates the Constitution;"
I don't believe I read anything suggesting RP made that claim.
In fact, I'd say that is an extremely flammable strawman and Mr. Clegg should make sure his fire insurance it up to date.

[Raven Nation]

Well NRO has already picked Jeb Bush as its nominee for 2016 so some of this is a preemptive strike.

I'm not sure on the substance of the argument, though. Clegg is right that the states determine eligibility to vote. However, is there a grey area when the disenfranchisement comes because of a federal drug conviction?

[Sevo]

Yes, but I haven't seen anything where RP claims the disenfranchisement violates the Constitution; straw man.

[Raven Nation]

I agree. I was thinking in broader terms of whether RP's bill was constitutional.

[Sevo]

See Irish' post below; looks like it was done properly.

[Irish]

Also, let's look at what the Rand Paul bill actually proposes.

It would require both the state and federal governments to inform former felons of their rights under the law and would sanction states that didn't abide by that provision by withholding federal corrections money.

So it doesn't immediately enfranchise them, it requires the state to tell them what their voting rights are.

The legislation would also allow states to expand federal voting rights to include people who are incarcerated.

So it would allow them to do so, but not require them to do so.

Literally nothing in Paul's bill infringes upon the right of states to determine who can vote and who can't, it just requires them to inform people of rights so they aren't denied their right to vote in contravention of state law.

It also would restore voting rights for federal races but not for state races, which shows that Paul is completely cognizant of the constitutional issues in play here.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Also, it "would allow anyone convicted of non-violent crimes in both state and federal courts to vote in federal elections once they complete their sentences." Translation: In Kentucky and other "restrictive" states there would be federal-only ballots (President and Congress, no state or local races) for the beneficiary felons.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Wait, I missed your last paragraph, please carry on.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Wait, I missed your last paragraph, please carry on.

[Raven Nation]

This part, if left in the final bill, annoys me:

would sanction states that didn't abide by that provision by withholding federal corrections money

I just dislike this federal ransom-holding approach.

[Emmerson Biggins]

ya. me too. But I doubt Paul's critic considers in unconstitutional. He's just being a dick.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

PS - I checked an ACLU link the other day for a story on felon voting, and IIRC 40 of the 50 states will let felons vote *no later than* the completion of prison term, probation and parole. Some of these 40 states enfranchise you earlier. That's violent *and* nonviolent felons.

As I understand, RP would only enfranchise nonviolent felons. Assuming he waits until they complete their sentence (inc. probation and parole), then the bill would affect only 10 states (inc. Kentucky) - the other 40 would be, if anything, more "liberal" than RP's proposal.

[Irish]

His bill also only impacts federal races because state races are entirely up to the individual states.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Democrats defeat Republicans 15-6 in the Congressional Baseball Game. Game called due to threatening weather after 7 innings.

[Sevo]

No, REALLY?!
GLOBAL WARMING!!!!!

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Game called due to threatening weather after 7 innings.

That's a shame. A few lucky lightening strikes could have really improved things...

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Rand Paul played in the game and proved he was not a libertarian when he successfully sacrificed a runner over to second base.

Ayn Rand was rolling over in her grave.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

It was an investment bunt for human flourishing, which will be rewarded in his next voluntary contract.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Civil War Summer Fantasy Camp for Kids*, near Murfreesboro and the Stones River battlefield -

http://www.dnj.com/article/201...../306240036

*Not the actual name

[Warrren]

I've been thinking about setting up the Andersonville Experience For Teens in my basement.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Too soon, dude.

[Warrren]

How about Kunta Kinte's Fantasy Camp? We can simulate the Middle Passage with a properly outfitted tractor-trailer.

[jesse.in.mb]

Are you related to a certain Warty Hugeman by any chance?

[Warrren]

Potential franchisee.

[GILMORE]

Do they re-enact the Battle of Nashville and all get their ass handed to them by pissed off New Yorkers?

[Knarf Yenrab!]

For the sake of realism, every fifth child will die of sepsis after watching his farm burn.

I can't decide which glorifies horrific shit more: the war re-enactment culture or WW2 FPSs.

[Bam!]

There's a civil war era summer camp for girls, as shown in the documentary Southern Belle.

The Civil War may be long over but the spirit of rebellion is hard to extinguish even in something as innocent as a girls' summer camp. Southern Belle is a unique insider's look at the 1861 Athenaeum Girls' School in Columbia, Tennessee, where the antebellum South attempts to rise again.

Every summer, young women from around the world eagerly sign up to become that iconic and romantic image of southern identity: the southern belle, replete with hoop skirt, hat and gloves, singing the region's anthem, Dixie. The camp is held in the historic headmaster's home of what was originally a four-year college for young women from 1850-1920. Never before have cameras been allowed to closely shadow the students and teachers during this intensive week of historical reenactment.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Anyone watching Miracle Landing on the Hudson on Nat Geo?

Very interesting.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Seen it. And several others. If it's the one where they interview Sully's wife, she's just awful.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I haven't seen that part if it's the same one. So far it's the stories from the passenger's perspective.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

They do a joint interview with Mr. & Mrs. Sully, and she says "I'm so overwhelmed that this happened to us!" Us? Lady, you weren't on the plane.

Also, Sully, a Republican, endorses Obama for president in the documentary (although Obama has already won the election). I can't figure out what aviation has to do with politics, or why that portion was included in the final cut.

[Sevo]

Pl?ya Manhattan.|6.26.14 @ 12:35AM|#
"Seen it. And several others. If it's the one where they interview Sully's wife, she's just awful."

Haven't seen it, but if they show Sully's testimony before congress, it will leave you laughing.
The guy makes the claim that people are now piloting aircraft because they want to instead of because they're getting the big bucks! How, uh, something...
I really *want* the guy or gal handling that stick (yeah, it ain't a stick) to WANT to fly airplanes!

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I would want Capt. Sully flying my plane, but I don't want his policy advice. Stick to what you know.

Along those lines, I would let Dr. Oz perform open heart surgery on me without hesitation, but I would never listen to his weight loss advice.

[C. Anacreon]

Isn't Dr Oz an Emergency Medicine doc? Those are talented physicians but they are in no way cardiac surgeons.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Never forget. Canadian geese brought down the plane.

[Warrren]

SPOILERS!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I got even last hunting season.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

So what do you do with the geese you down?

[Warrren]

Not sure if pun...

[Jesus H. Christ]

It's GMSM, how can you not be sure?

[jesse.in.mb]

Now that the kibby is away, the Serious Man will pun mercilessly.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I'm actually less likely to pun when she isn't reading. Provoking her is great fun!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I missed it. I R stupid.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Actually, no pun intended. I don't even see a pun in what I wrote.

[jesse.in.mb]

Goose, down.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

No, still not getting it. You'll have to explain it to me.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

No, still not getting it. You'll have to explain it to me.

Fuck off. You've made an ass of me enough tonight.

Dick.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Goose down.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He's 21. Forgive him.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

In the United States, Federal Trade Commission regulations require that any product labeled "100% Down" must contain only down feathers, while products labeled simply "Down" can contain a mixture of fiber and feathers. In addition, products labeled as "Goose Down" must contain at least 90% goose down, 10% goose feathers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.....#Human_use

Is this what I am not getting? And I'm 22, trust me, it makes all the difference with her.

[jesse.in.mb]

Wait, were you being serious about not knowing what goose down is?

We might need to take you pillow shopping at IKEA.

I recommend the GOSA RAPS; 75% down/25% feathers is a good mix. The J?RN?RT is just excessive and the GOSA PINJE is for those without a monocle.

[C. Anacreon]

You don't get down from an elephant, you get down from a goose.

/old children's book joke

[Francisco d'Anconia]

They are in mah belly. Make great stir fry meat.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Seriously? There are shitloads of them in the desert resort areas. They're evil.

I can honestly say that a Canada Goose is the only animal I've ever kicked in the face. So far.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Lotta meat on them bitches. You shoot a dozen geese and it's almost as much meat as a deer.

[Sevo]

Grand Moff Serious Man|6.26.14 @ 12:36AM|#
"Never forget. Canadian geese brought down the plane."

I been to Canada more than those birds.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

There's a park with a man-made lake near my house. It attracts a fairly large population of Canadian geese.

It's a misnomer because they are total assholes that are the most confrontational birds ever. I nearly ran into a group waddling while riding my bike.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

They attacked my kid in Palm Desert. They regretted it.

[jesse.in.mb]

The older one? I can see the younger one tackling a goose if it got too fresh with him.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Yeah. The younger one sneaks up on them and pushes them into the lake. They hiss at him and he hisses back.

[Gene]

It's a misnomer because they are total assholes that are the most confrontational birds ever

No, we're dicks too.

Btw, I've got a pond with a goose blind beside it and every fall there are a few dozen of them that are relocated to my freezer.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

I think I found out what happened to Dunphy:

http://www.kirotv.com/news/new.....ing/ngN8z/

A King County sheriff's deputy was arrested Thursday for investigation of promoting prostitution, theft and drugs.
...
There is also evidence that Holiwell sold steroids to members of the SWAT team. But the Sheriff's Office can't say exactly how many deputies may be steroid users ? it's against the law for them to test.

Also, what the fucking fuck?! It's against the law to drug test fucking POLICE OFFICERS?! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

[Warrren]

we can be trusted you bigorati can't. hth.

[Jesus H. Christ]

I don't get it. Youtube, hulu, amazon, netflix can all reliably stream staggering amounts of video, but FBN can't stream one freaking show to a couple dozen viewers. Must've hired the IRS IT dept.

[GILMORE]

Note* = I do not believe any 'special' show existed, and Nick was getting in on some heavy duty Troll action after a day of non-functioning website... just cause it would be @#(*$()@ funny.

Well played, says I.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Night kids.