Rape

Occidental Expels Student for Rape Under Standard So Low That the Accuser Could Have Been Found Guilty, Too

"Both parties would be guilty of sexually assaulting one another," said Shibley.

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Occidental College

Does all drunken sex constitute rape? Obviously not, but that's the argument Occidental College administrators must make in their zeal to prosecute a male student for sexual assault—even after police acquitted him.

The student, identified only as "John Doe," had sex with his accuser on September 8th, 2013, according to details of the case obtained by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. Both Doe and his accuser had been drinking. By several accounts, the sex was consensual. The accuser sent Doe a text message beforehand asking him if he had a condom. She also texted a friend and clearly announced her intention to have sex with Doe.

After that night, the accuser spoke with several Occidental employees, including Danielle Dirks, an assistant professor of sociology. Dirks told the accuser that Doe "fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on [a sports team], and was 'from a good family.'"

A week later, the accuser filed a sexual assault report against Doe.

The Los Angeles Police Department determined that both parties had consented to sex and decided not to charge Doe:

 "Witnesses were interviewed and agreed that the victim and suspect were both drunk, however, that they were both willing participants exercising bad judgment …. It would be reasonable for [Doe] to conclude based on their communications and [the accuser's] actions that, even though she was intoxicated, she could still exercise reasonable judgment."

Occidental College, however, is under pressure to be seen as doing something about sexual assault on campus given the federal investigation into its rape prevention practices, so the college hired attorney Marilou Mirkovich to investigate the matter. Mirkovich concluded that the female student did indeed consent to sex. However, since she was intoxicated, her consent was invalid, according to Mirkovich.

This is a flawed interpretation of Occidental's own policy on consent, which requires students be not merely drunk but actively incapacitated for rape to have occurred, according to FIRE Vice President Robert Shibley.

Indeed, Mirkovich's interpretation makes no sense. If all drunken sex is rape, then Doe and his accuser are both guilty.

"Both parties would be guilty of sexually assaulting one another," Shibley told me in a phone interview.

Occidental is only holding Doe responsible, however. He was found guilty and expelled.

The college denied Doe's appeal. He has since filed a lawsuit against the college and reached out to FIRE for help. FIRE sent Occidental a letter outlining the group's concerns that Doe's due process rights were severely violated.

"Right now we are waiting from a response from Occidental," said Shibley.

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  1. Does all drunken sex constitute rape? Obviously not, but that’s the argument Occidental College administrators must make in their zeal to prosecute a male student for sexual assault?even after police acquitted him.

    Would some of you highly edumicated folks tell a brother why… why anyone would want to even attend college in this day and age?

    “Pay us $50,000 a year to learn photography and printmaking, and probably get charged with rape!”

    “Oooh, where do I sign up?”

    1. To put off reality for another 4 years.

      1. If you’re lucky. Sounds like this kid only managed half a year.

      2. 6 years for Proggies. Takes a long time to build up all that self righteous outrage.

    2. Actually, this is something that crossed my mind just now =

      why not launch a university that openly states?=

      “If you’re 18+, you’re an adult, and what you do in your free time is between you, your partner, your god, and the cops. As long as your bills are paid, we don’t give a fuck what you do.”

      I mean, personal responsibility, etc.

      Or is that like, totally against the law now too?

      1. Well, you can forget any federal money or grants.

        1. That was taken as a given

      2. Forced In Loco Parentis will bite you in the arse every time.

      3. That was art school in the 90s. The administration didn’t give two shits about what you did. We actually still had a dorm back then and the 2 RAs both sold drugs, but they colluded and sold different drugs. Professors would step over kids who were obviously coked out of their minds working in the hallways while trying to get to class. I had one teacher tell the class to get a bunch of benzedrine and stay up for a week straight if that was what it was going to take to get the work done. That was after all what he did at Pratt after getting back from the Korean War. C.c. hell they didn’t even care if you got arrested as long as the crime wasn’t a violent one.

        1. My mom went to Pratt in the late 60s and that all sounds about right.

          1. I was describing Otis-Parsons. One of my teachers went to Pratt. And funny enough, one of the drug dealing RAs transfered to Pratt about two years in. So yeah, urban art schools are pretty much the same.

    3. It still only happens to a small number of individuals at any given institution and it’s not always that visible to students. There’s probably a greater risk of being killed by a bus at an urban-campus university than being expelled for drunk-sex at any given university.

      Plus, how else will other people know how smart and awesome you are if you don’t go to college?

    4. I can’t see any reason to go for anything other than STEM subjects.

    5. “Would some of you highly edumicated folks tell a brother why… why anyone would want to even attend college in this day and age?”

      Because science and them other fancy book-learnen subjects like fluid thermodynamics, which you must’ve plum forgot to mention. Partner.

      1. So you can learn the same shit that’s in a book without paying 50k a year and you can choose who you study from and build your own theories to test and invent.
        I never would have been able to sit through more school but give me headphones and a book and I’ll learn it in half the time it would take and with a greater understanding of the subject because i am moving at my pace. Book-learnin only costs the price of a book.Other than to make money, why the hell do you care if someone gives you a slip of paper saying you got the same thing out of the book that they did? Is that the purpose of knowledge and learning?

  2. Individuals don’t decide consent. The collective does. Compare this to how the “women don’t lie” brigade treated anyone who accused Bill Clinton of wrongdoing:

    In a final videotaped message, a sad reflection of the sexist stories we so often see on screen
    …How many men, raised on a steady diet of Judd Apatow comedies in which the shlubby arrested adolescent always gets the girl, find that those happy endings constantly elude them and conclude, “It’s not fair”?…

    1. The more i think about it the more that scene in Revenge of the Nerds where Skolnick dresses up in the same costume as Stan and tricks Stan’s GF Betty into having sex with him, the more creepy that scene becomes to me.

      1. It should be. That’s a very fucked up scene and I’m amazed it made it into a mainstream movie.

        1. Don’t forget the whole selling naked pictures of girls that the nerds took without their consent, too. That movie is pretty fucked up. What an awesome movie.

    2. I’ve wondered how much media portrayals of relationships factored into date/acquaintance rapes.

      SO MANY pesudo-dramas aimed at teens have one of them “falling in love” with someone and persisting in trying to get their love, acceptance, or whatever despite being brushed off or outright rejected. The outcome seems to define the pursuer-if the target agrees after the other person’s repeated tries, then the clouds part in the pursuers world. If they say no and reject them again or finally or in a loud, public manner, the pursuer’s whole world is crushed and the target is the bad guy.

      How many drama/romances have one party engaging in behavior that is outright stalking and would see a person facing a restraining order?

  3. even after police acquitted him.

    BTW, do police acquit you, or do juries?

    However, since she was intoxicated, her consent was invalid, according to Mirkovich.

    Hey, whoa hey… what consents can I consider invalid because I might have been drunk at the time?

    1. I was totally drunk when I signed those student loan papers. As a result:

      Current balance: $0.00.

      1. I like the cut of your jib.

        I’ll bet you come from a good family, if you get my meaning.

        1. No, but I did play golf in high school. Which has to be up there with water polo. Maybe not as high as lacrosse.

          Also- What’s a jib?

          1. The jib of a sailing ship is a triangular sail set between the foretopmast head and the jib boom. Some ships had more than one jib sail. Each country had its own style of sail and so the nationality of a sailing ship, and a sailor’s consequent opinion of it, could be determined from the jib.

            The phrase became used in an idiomatic way during the 19th century. Sir Walter Scott used to it in St. Ronan’s Well, 1824:

            “If she disliked what the sailor calls the cut of their jib.”

            Basically, the sheet hanging from your nose.

            Oh, and in the navy, “sheets” are what normal people call ropes. I’m a normal person.

            1. Sheets are sails.

              *Line* is what normal people call rope.

              And don’t use Yahoo Answers as a definitive etymological source – most ‘sources’ are simply repeating mistaken origins for phrases.

              1. No, sheets are definitely “ropes.”

                1. Sheets and Ropes huh. I see where you’re going with this.

              2. In sailing, a sheet is a line (rope, cable or chain) used to control the movable corner(s) (clews) of a sail.

                Incorrectamundo. Sheets are ropes. My father… my fucking father went to the Naval academy in Annapolis! Therefore, I’m an expert!

                “Everything on a boat is called something that it isn’t!”

                1. Bah Scuttlebutt!

            2. Sheets are sheets because a sail boat has so many kinds of “ropes” on board. Saying, “Pull that rope,” could be detrimental without specific names. So you have sheets, lines, uphauls, outhauls, downhauls, etc. And they don’t have to be made of rope. They can be cable or chain just as well.

            3. Sorry, Simpsons joke. Could have made that clearer.

          2. A type of sail. Also, the little bit of clothing Paul’s mom wears.

          3. Water Polo is much more cool than Golf.

            Albeit, definitely also more gay. Which i suppose is also cooler than golf.

          4. Promote that man!

            1. It’s my first day!

          5. Maybe not as high as lacrosse.

            Ha, good one, BiMon

            *scans alleyway wildly while dumping STX bag and college jersey into burning trash can*

          6. Also- What’s a jib?

            Also the boom of a crane or derrick.

          7. Clearly, “jib” is an Inter-Webz term for “giblets,” which is well-known slang for genitalia. Paul is sexually harassing you and should be kicked off of Reason forever and should be publicly shunned.

            1. where is the trigger warning for this thread?

          8. Also- What’s a jib?

            a dick.

            1. So Paul. is, in fact, a circumcision connoisseur?

              1. Or just using the old time upper crust British equivalent to “Cojones”.

      2. Ooh, that’s a good plan – record yourself getting borderline blackout drunk, then sign for a credit card. Max it out, then claim your consent wasn’t valid because you were drunk.

    2. Consent to be searched when pulled over for drunk driving.

    3. If I start drinking right now, can I get out of this stupid “social contract” somehow?

  4. Dirks told the accuser that Doe “fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on the water polo team, and was ‘from a good family.'”

    And there. We. Have it. Somebody made Dirks feel bad in high school, and this is her indescribably petty and destructive way of getting back.

    It’s amazing how little you have to scratch the surface with people like this to get to their insanely childish, petty, immature, and just plain pathetic motivations.

    1. Somebody made Dirks feel bad in high school, and this is her indescribably petty and destructive way of getting back.

      People like to bag on the old high school jocks that seem perpetually stuck on their glory days, but those Al Bundy types are FAR outnumbered by the resentful, bitter losers who are still stuck on their high school failures.

      Sometimes, like Dirks or Charles Pierce, they even get a public forum to project their bitterness all over their current social and emotional betters.

      1. I don’t think it’s sometimes. I think it’s the vast majority of the time. From people like Dirks to inadequate schmucks who become cops or the ugly people who become politicians or whatever, tons of people are riddled with insecurity and the need to “get back” at people they feel wronged them, especially in high school. And they will if given the chance.

        It’s pathetic as fuck and they try and hide where it comes from, but then sometimes people like Dirks inadvertently fuck up and are clear as day.

        1. There are healthy ways of dealing with that need. Living well is the best revenge and all that.

        2. Plus, a sociology professor, so you don’t get much more worthless than that, in terms of utility, save for the gender studies staff.

      2. People like to bag on the old high school jocks that seem perpetually stuck on their glory days, but those Al Bundy types are FAR outnumbered by the resentful, bitter losers who are still stuck on their high school failures.

        I’d agree with that. I’ve met very few people who brag, or even talk, about their high school days. But I’ve met a lot who whine about how bad high school was for them and believe that the world somehow owes them compensation. Most of them are unsuccessful in life, not because people were mean to them but because they never developed as people outside of high school. They just wallow in the past and use it as an excuse for their lack of accomplishment.

        Ironically, letting the bullies who victimized them win.

    2. So guys that “had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on the water polo team, and was ‘from a good family.” are all rapists. It’s a trap of the school system. They say get good grades, they say aim for the highest you can be, they say be as active as you can be. So they can one day say, “See because you did all of that, you’re a rapist. Proud of yourself now you sick fuck?!”

      The only reason that the John Doe in this case was punished and the girl wasn’t was because he had a penis and she didn’t. Because in these pricks eyes, having a penis automatically means rape. He could have been sleeping and still been a rapist because his penis has a brain all of it’s own and can consent no matter what it’s owner thinks or even if its owner can even think.

      This is misandry (a concept these people don’t even believe exists, and indeed even my spellcheck dictionary doesn’t even believe in it’s existence). But just as bad is that these pricks draw attention and resources away from actual rapes. They make everybody look bad. Yes, even women. Consider this case, a guy gets inviting texts from a girl, who obviously wanted sex. I assume he knew her and they were probably at least okay friends. So you two meet up and have a good time, drinking and then it ends in sex. Next thing you know, she accuses you of raping her while she was drunk, even though you were just as drunk and she texted you while she was probably sober.

      1. How could I see this as anything but a trap. I suppose that she merely regretted the act later or was tricked, but more likely to occur to me was this was a set up. So next time a girl texts me inviting me to sex, I would turn her down, I know what she’s about to do and I want no part in it.

        Unfortunately not all girls are like that, but with girls like this, how are you to know the difference.

        So these stunts in addition to drawing attention and resources away from dealing with actual rapes, they also create animosity between the sexes. They make us all enemies to each other. Fortunately I believe as the two grow older, these things will be less likely to occur, or at least I hope so.

        1. Beyond that, all these things do is paint all women as constant victims. All sex is rape to them, and they are unable to become the rapists, even to other women. They are ultimately unable to stand on their own and accept responsibility for their action. I do not believe this personally, that they are all victims and unable to accept responsibility, I know a lot of women that are perfectly capable of such and have proven it with their actions. But these women are also not the type to cry wolf/rape just because they got tipsy and regretted sex with somebody. So at the end of the day, the ones who constantly defend those that cry wolf/rape as an attack on men, are not just misandrists, but also misogynists. They are unable to show anybody real respect, not enough to treat the other sex (or in some cases their own) as just as equal as their own (or in those other cases, the other sex), and at the same time they are unable to respect their own sex enough to hold it accountable for it’s actions (again, in some cases the other sex).

          1. It’s disgusting you feel the need to employ ‘misogyny’ to garner support for the (opposition to ) abuse of men.

            If ppl don’t give a fuck about men being abused on grounds of misandry then we are heading exactly for japanese herbivore men and more mgtow.

            1. I was pointing out how people were creating a narrative of this. On the one hand, saying that women are equal, but on the other hand treating them like children. I used to hear some people give others flak for opening the door for them, because they said they were just as capable of such. They would have been against being treated how these colleges are treating women. Yes, it makes some people feel better, they feel that they are reducing rapes, and punishing the bad guys. But a lot of these involve false positives. These girls are encouraged to feel ashamed about sex, and cope by making excuses. This hurts everybody, both men and women. And the problem won’t be solved by treating somebody’s one night stand regret the same as somebody being coerced or forced into sex.

              It also encourages people to show themselves no respect. How am I supposed to respect myself if I constantly see others at fault for my actions? Am I not an adult? I would think being adult is not just about making responsible decisions, but living by the results of both responsible and irresponsible. If I am never at fault for my actions, then I must be by definition, a child.

            2. And I don’t intend these comments to be misogynist. A big problem I see being created is a barrier between people. I see it all of the time, people revel in hating each other. In this case, people want boys and girls to hate each other. Misogynists want girls to act a certain way, because if they didn’t then they lose their reason to hate women. And misandrists want men to act a certain way, for the same reasons.

              1. I didn’t take your comments to be misogynist at all. I think Ann N is misreading you. You very eloquently stated your position, and I agree with it 100%. Well done.

    3. I have to say this line threw me. If, and I say IF, the other rapists fit that profile, this is still nonsense, as many more who would fit that profile would not be rapists.

  5. Dirks told the accuser that Doe “fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on the water polo team, and was ‘from a good family.'”

    What the fuck?

    1. I couldn’t even comment on that part. Its just too rage inducing.

    2. Oddly, she left out “male”. I wonder how many female students fit this profile?

      1. . I wonder how many female students fit this profile?

        Does not compute.

      2. — Oddly, she left out “male”.

        Redundant with rapist. Or evil.

      3. Oddly, she left out “male”.

        Truth be told, that’s the only requirement. Amirite?

    3. Didn’t you know that the “rapist” profile is strangely similar to “guy who has his shit together and would probably seem appealing to women as a potential hookup/date” profile?

      1. You do know that, properly understood, “rape” extends to all PIV sex?

    4. Apparently the criteria that get you into a good college also make you a potential rapist.

      1. Which explains why colleges are having a rape epidemic. They’re literally selecting for rapists!

        1. America’s best high schools are pretty much rape factories. Same probably goes for charter schools.

    5. “from a good family” = “family has money”
      “on the water polo team” = “jock who forces people”
      “high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian” = “family will pay to avoid lawsuit”

    6. She forgot to add ‘and did not call afterwards’.

  6. “fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on the water polo team, and was ‘from a good family.'”

    Bastards are way more likely to rape then people “from a good family”

    1. What about a bastard from a good family?

      1. I took the implicit meaning of “from a good family” to be that he was raised in a good family.

        So yeah a royal bastard is just as rapey as his low blooded bastard peers.

      2. They are more likely to cut off your dick and flay people alive.

        1. “From a good family”, they’re more likely to join underappreciated celibate men’s groups.

      3. You know nothing, Jon Snow.

    2. I’d like to find a Valedictorian, sports star from a good family, but is also african-american and march him to Dirkss office.

      “Please professor Dirks, would you mind telling me if this kid fits the profile of a rapist? In either case, would you also explain why?”

      *Dirks furiously tugs at collar*

    3. “Good family” is a proggy dogwhistle for “white/privileged”, is my guess.

  7. Even by current femingineered standards on intercourse, this is a step further into the abyss of crazy.

    The communication was in text and she left her dorm to his to do the deed. Its a heavy presumption, I know, but it sounds like they weren’t drinking together beforehand. Unlike the typical get-drunk-and-take-girl-home scenario, he couldn’t have known she was drinking previously until she got there.

    It makes me glad Im having a daughter. She’s way less likely to be the victim of kangaroo courts.

    1. Yeah, but if she goes to college, its a certainty she’ll be raped, right?

    2. So she got him drunk and took advantage of him?

  8. She also texted a friend and clearly announced her intention to have sex with Doe.

    /facepalm

    I try not to hate GenY…I really really do.

    1. Oh come on, they’re so adorable. With all their microhousing which is getting zoned out of existence, and yet they don’t see the hand of God the state in any of it.

  9. victim and suspect were both drunk, however, that they were both willing participants exercising bad judgment

    since when has getting ripped and having a little slap and tickle an exercise in bad judgment?

    1. since when has getting ripped and having a little slap and tickle an exercise in bad judgment?

      Clearly, you’ve never woken up and been surprised with what you found in your bed.

      1. This is Paul’s internal monologue waking up after a crazy night, and then he chews his arm off.

        1. Coyotes, like raccoons, are at least charming.

      2. Clearly, you’ve never woken up and been surprised with what found in your bed.

        So, wait – you’re saying that I was raped all those times?

        1. It’s not only possible, but likely.

          I apologize for the lack of trigger warning.

        2. I got brickfaced with this one sasquatch i met off the internet because i had already driven all the way there to plow what i thought was a hot chick so i was going to get shitty enough to make her hot
          when i told her i wouldnt date her again the next week she tried to cry rape but i had the week of e-mails talking about how amazing her time was and how she wants to see me again blah blah blah
          Glad the military doesnt go by these psychotic standards.

          1. I got brickfaced with this one sasquatch i met off the internet

            Then you don’t even need the emails. Everyone knows a mere human can’t rape a yeti.

      3. With my game any surprise is a good surprise.

    2. Since it’s at a college in California that takes their “sexual assault” policy “seriously”

      1. ah, the bad judgment they were both exhibiting was going to a CA university. Got it.

    3. Since the mid-90’s if you’re a man.

    4. When did we get to the point where its a crime for a male to touch a female who is exercising bad judgment?

    5. Well it wasn’t inherently “bad judgment” on either of their parts.

      But some things that make it bad judgment for either of them.

      For the girl it was bad judgment because she was a woman who forgot she was supposed to be a victim, he apparently had good grades, was athletic, responsible (how much is debatable), and I assume he was good looking enough for her to think on it, text him her intentions, text her friend her intentions, go to his place, get drunk and have sex. She either regretted it afterward, or tricked, or she set him up.

      For the guy it was bad judgment because he ended up getting expelled for it and called a rapist. We don’t know whether or not he reciprocated her lust when sober, all we know is that he got drunk and they had what appeared to be consensual sex.

      So the lesson we have here is not to have sex with other people because you may either regret it, or forget to be a victim and have to go back on it. Or you may get expelled, and called a rapist, with the added jailtime a possibility as well. And all this started with an inviting text.

    6. Did you not read the article?

  10. I wonder if the expelled kid’s mom is a devout, on-message, frown-and-nod feminist.

    Even if she is, the punishment far exceeds the crime.

    1. I wonder if the expelled kid’s mom is a devout, on-message, frown-and-nod feminist.

      One can only hope.

      They said he came from a ‘good family’, so there’s a reasonably good chance his mom runs some non-profit foundation listed on the NPR website.

  11. I’m not seeing how the drinking factored into her ability to consent at all since she had clearly consented before she started drinking.

    1. Ah – but you can revoke consent at any time. Even after the act.

      1. Well, that seems perfectly reasonable.

      2. I would think that, once you’ve gotten drunk, you lack the capacity to revoke consent, just as you lack capacity to alter a will.

        1. Nice

    2. But she’s “just a stupid girl”. That’s basically what the school is saying here. Women don’t have the same capacity to make rational decisions as men. I bet they teach exaclty the opposite though.

      1. That’s what I was saying above. If the current situation were reversed. I would be offended that people were saying I was unable to make a rational decision, and that ultimately I was unable to own up to my mistakes, such as texting somebody asking if they had condoms, texting a friend admitting intent to have sex, and getting us both drunk and in bed.

        Now, imagine such a situation did occur. Some guy texts some girl asking if she had condoms, and that he was going over. And texting a friend that he was going to have sex with said girl. If he did that, right off the bat, people would say he was predatory, that he was going to take advantage of the girl. Reverse the situation to this, and he still gets the blame. If you have a penis, you can’t win.

    1. So I think I was raped last night?.
      Or sexually assaulted. I was hooking up with this guy I regularly hook up with since the break up, but I’m not really into him and just kinda want him to satisfy me u know?
      So we were having sex like usual?. But then he turned me around and began penetrating me from behind “doggy style.” He kept going.
      Not ONCE did he ask if it was ok to change positions. What should I do??! I don’t want him to hate me because I have a crush on his hot friend, but rape is not ok. I let him continue and we both came, but it’s natural to have sensations even when raped. I can’t even think straight anymore idk what to do. Thinking about posting his Facebook here.

      This has to be a generational thing. I’m almost beginning to feel glad that women don’t find me interesting any more.

      1. Its got to be someone talking the piss.

      2. It’s not a generational thing, it’s a retard thing. Most women aren’t this retarded, just don’t sleep with one who is.

        Developing crazydar has always been important for normal people of both sexes. If you make sure you do it well, you can usually avoid any of this type of absurd trouble. Just don’t fuck mental cases. It doesn’t matter how hot they are. It’s not worth it.

        1. Rule number one of surviving to adulthood is don’t ever under any circumstances stick it in crazy.

          1. Well, you can, as long as you use a fake name and a fake address and a Nixon mask (Shatner is also acceptable) and only go to her place (or his if you’re a straight chick or a homo).

            Then it’s OK. But buy a shotgun just in case if you don’t already have one.

          2. Foolish mortal… I scoff at your overly-cautious attitude couched in logic and common sense.

          3. Yeah but it is way more fun if you learn how to discern the type of crazy that will leave you bruised with a smile on your face and crazy that will well never leave you.

            1. My criteria is much more “will there be drama (or worse, like stalking)?” If the answer is yes, my answer is no.

              1. See my post below. My crazydar is so bad, I don’t date anymore. I’ve had people ask me why, and there’s no easy way to say, “I’m so fucking bad at avoiding the crazy, that I just don’t touch anything”. It’s an uncomfortable conversation.

                Luckily, the people closest to me know this and understand.

              2. Stalking is awful. I had to deal with that once. Interestingly enough she was valedictorian, highly intelligent, and from a good family. Maybe that professor was on to something.

          4. *shrugs*

            I did well with an almost exclusive list of crazy*.

            *Current spouse included

            1. There’s “crazy” and then there’s CRA-ZEE. Being animated or exuberant is different than “I think you cheated on me so I’m going to slaughter your dog”.

              Are you saying you did an exclusive list of the latter? If so, you must be Michael Douglas.

              1. “I think you cheated on me so I’m going to slaughter your dog”.

                That chick has got to be way hot.

                1. Actually dated a chick who choked out my puppy because it shit in the cage at 5 months old, then when i saw and lost it she spiked the puppy on the ground and broke its leg.
                  for some fucking reason i dated her for another year after this happened because i apparently have a very broken or malfunctioning crazydar

              2. My first question would now be, “Do you have a blog?”

        2. Developing crazydar has always been important for normal people of both sexes.

          Jesus fuck, the weakest of all my attributes. In fact, I had reverse crazydar. 100 women in a room, one crazy one, I’d find the crazy one.

          It doesn’t matter how hot they are. It’s not worth it.

          I’m still on the fence on this.

          1. I’m the opposite of you, Paul. My crazydar is super-refined. I can sense varying levels of instability at a very fine level. It’s been a good thing to have. I’ve made very few mistakes.

            1. My crazydar is super-refined. I can sense varying levels of instability at a very fine level. It’s been a good thing to have. I’ve made very few mistakes.

              Sez the guy who regularly claims to defile my mom.

              1. That’s deliberate risk taking. He knows she’s nuts. He also knows how far he can push things before he gets stabbed.

              2. Yeah but its your mom, so the hotness beats the crazy ratio

          2. I think I can beat you on that. I seem to have reverse married girl crazydar. If I woman offers me sex you can bet she’s married, which has led to some interesting attempts at trying to escape angry husbands.

          3. Look for the ones wearing the biggest and darkest sunglasses, that’s the number one sign of crazy.

      3. “I let him continue”

        How is there any question if this is rape?

        1. Obviously she was intimidated by this primal, backwards, unthinking man-ape who has been groomed for rape by the patriarchy. She knew that he would likely kill her if she voiced her dislike for what he was doing!

          /Gender Studies Prof

        2. I don’t want him to hate me because I have a crush on his hot friend

          and

          I let him continue and we both came, but it’s natural to have sensations even when raped.

          You are thinking to much. Obviously the post is a sockpuppet….it never happened.

      4. Not ONCE did he ask if it was ok to change positions. What should I do??!

        Open yer fekkin’ yap and say “Hey, stud, not my thing”?

        Or is that too much to expect a strong, powerful woman to manage?

      5. I let him continue and we both came, but it’s natural to have sensations even when raped.

        Really? I mean, women orgasm when being rape-raped?

        I guess in her world, where any heterosex is rape, this happens. Out in the real world, I seriously, seriously doubt it.

        1. Some women orgasm as part of a fear response. It depends on the woman, but it is possible to orgasm during violent non consensual rape.

      6. Oh, my. I didn’t believe this was real, so I scoured that account looking for any hint that this is a troll account.

      7. Lenore. I was in K-Mart parking lot 30 years ago talking to Lenore. She was my GF’s BFF, as the kids say. I complained to her that I wasn’t enough. I had drank the Alan Alda cool-aid. She says ‘Look knuckle-head, just go for it, she’ll tell if she doesn’t want it.”

      8. Not ONCE did he ask if it was ok to change positions

        Lol. Just imagine the following scenario.

        Guy: Stops in the middle of sex and says ‘Excuse me, but would you mind if we changed positions?’

        Girl: ‘WTF?, you ruined the spontaneity, you ruined our sex!, I was just about to, and you…. waahhhhh!!!’

        1. i was thinking it sounded rather British.

          I say dear, do you suppose we might try it, just as a larf, with you facing the other way round?

          Oh, don’t be stupid, Basil. Just finish up and there’s still time for tea.

          1. That made me laugh

        2. You laugh, but this was exactly the training we received when I attended college. You must explicitly ask for consent at each step.

          “I would like to kiss you now. Would that be OK?”

          “I would like to touch your breasts. Would that be OK?”

          This was really the line – if you fail to obtain explicit consent at any stage, you have committed rape. This was in the early days of “enthusiastic consent”, before it had a name.

      9. That’s a joke, right? Please, please God tell me that’s a joke.

        1. yes it is a joke.

          these two lines give it away:

          “I don’t want him to hate me because I have a crush on his hot friend”

          and

          “I let him continue and we both came, but it’s natural to have sensations even when raped.”

      10. That is scary levels of stupid.

      11. Sounds good to me; why is she complaining?

    2. Satire? I’m incapable of telling.

      1. I guess that means it’s definitely rape if a chick puts a finger in your butt during a BJ.

        1. I’m gonna need more detail to give a ruling . . . .

          1. I mean, not if she explicitly asks for consent for insertion, obviously.

      2. I’m guessing satire but who knows. Maybe Occidental is only joking too.

    3. The new puritans.

    4. At least a large number of the commenters called her out on this. She’s supposedly Bi, but switching from the missionary position is rape. You can’t make that shit up.

    5. At least a large number of the commenters called her out on this. She’s supposedly Bi, but switching from the missionary position is rape. You can’t make that shit up.

    6. At least a large number of the commenters called her out on this. She’s supposedly Bi, but switching from the missionary position is rape. You can’t make that shit up.

    7. To be fair, there were a couple of replies that made it clear that that was not rape.

      She put all of the responsibility of the guy to ask her her opinion. And while that may have been better, is she unable to voice her opinion. I assume not because she made it clear she didn’t really like him and was just using him, not to mention she didn’t want to make him angry because she like his friend.

      Man, that’s just low. I can somewhat understand not liking everything the other person does in terms of sex, but to equate that with rape? That is too far down into asshole territory.

      I technically have a tumblr account (not under this name) but I tend to avoid it because right off the bat, I encountered shit like that, and there was so much hate that it gets kind of depressing that people seem completely unable to love one another as decent human beings, they only care about making enemies instead of friends.If she considered him her friend, she should be able to talk to him and tell her her concerns, and if she doesn’t consider him a friend, then she can’t really complain when she is using him for sex repeatedly. It doesn’t sound like he was violent because if he was, I certainly wouldn’t repeatedly go to him for sex.

  12. Did they even stop to consider that by ruling in this manner they are implying that men are superior creatures because they are expected to exercise judgment in this situation and women are not? I mean, isn’t that the logical takeaway here? Why aren’t there feminists going apeshit over the implication that men must be naturally more responsible than women?

    1. “Women are simply exposed to a different consciousness than men are. Men have a nearly hypnotic way of coercing women into doing thing that they don’t consent to due to the subconscious influence of the patriarchy on both sexes. The only way to break through the patriarchal expectations and break traditional gender roles is to actively require consent for all actions to be taken. The rape culture withers when men aren’t allowed to sexually assault women based on body language and equivocation.”

    2. I believe that “Women are simply exposed to a different consciousness than men are” is functionally equivalent to “men are superior creatures because they are expected to exercise judgment”.

      1. FALSE CONSHUSNESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!1!111!!!

        It’s obvious that you’re part of the patriarchy!

        /Gender Studies 101

    3. This is exactly how ancients thought about women. Totally lacking in self-control, etc. It’s amazing how far back we’ve gone.

      1. This is exactly how ancients thought about women.

        The Victorian age is ancient?

        1. Greeks, but Victorians too, sure.

        2. The Victorian age is ancient?

          That would be the age named after King Victoria, the longest-ruling monarch of Great Britain?

          1. I see what you did there.

      2. Also i think you giving the ancients a bum rap.

        They didn’t think Women could not control themselves, they thought the stuff women wanted to do was stuff they didn’t want them to do so they needed to be controlled…often through violence or threat of violence.

        You shame people with name calling and public exposure…not stone them to death.

        The ancients viewed women as fundamentally evil and therefor needed to be controlled. Not ditzy children who needed protection from their naivete.

        1. “The ancients viewed women as fundamentally evil and therefor needed to be controlled. Not ditzy children who needed protection from their naivete.”

          It seems like women these days are determined to prove them right. If you’ve got a son, you should be getting him snipped at 18 so he doesn’t end up having to pay for an “accidental” pregnancy.

    4. They’re not going apeshit because all their arguments are merely rationalizations for power.

      The interpretation increases their power and abuses men – Mission Accomplished.

    5. Why aren’t there feminists going apeshit over the implication that men must be naturally more responsible than women?

      Because feminists, like women generally, lack the capacity for reason

      1. I keed. I keed.

  13. Never have sex with someone at your own school. Townies are ok, better yet, ROAD TRIP!!!!

    1. Townies are ok

      Not where I went to school.

      1. Townies are OK.

        [Wakes from nostalgic reverie.] Hmm? Oh, yeah, you bet your ass.

    2. This is a pretty good rule of thumb.

      1. rule of thumb.

        SEXIST!

        1. Urban myth!

          It is often claimed that the term’s etymological origin lies in a law that limited the maximum thickness of a stick with which it was permissible for a man to beat his wife.[6][7][2] British common law before the reign of Charles II permitted a man to give his wife “moderate correction”, but no “rule of thumb” (whether called by this name or not) has ever been the law in England.[8][9] Such “moderate correction” specifically excluded beatings, allowing the husband only to confine a wife to the household.[10]

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thumb

          1. Yeah, but Wikipedia is notoriously sexist. This is just patriarchal revisionism at work.

  14. This story really gets my blood hot. Fresh out of High School, I got extremely shitfaced with a girl of legal consent at a party. After hours of drinking together she grabs me and takes me to my car to give me a blowjob. In the middle of the deed a friend of mine opened the car door to find his booze and saw us. When she and I returned to the party everyone started teasing her about it. She left embarrassed and the next day started spreading the lie that I raped her. If not for my buddy interrupting us, I could have had my life ruined by her narcissistic ass.

    1. Actually by the new inquisition standards you would still be kicked out.

      1. True. Along with the music, pre-9/11 surveillance and glowing optimism of youth, this is yet another reason to miss the 90’s.

    2. Narcissistic? No, I think a more apt description would be mendacious cunt.

  15. The fallacy in all of this is expecting social crusaders to be rational or fair in judgement. I am not a mysoginist but merely stating facts that women, in general, demand security. Politicians and social crusaders use these general (biological) propencities to sever liberties of those they are crusading against.
    The mob rule of progressive justice is no justice at all, we are all Robespierres to their whims and stupidities.

    1. “The fallacy in all of this is expecting social crusaders to be rational or fair in judgement. ”

      Bingo. Truth, fairness, justice has nothing to do with it. It’s all about power.

  16. That “sex contract” skit that Dave Chappelle and Rashida Jones did was supposed to be a joke, but it’s getting to the point that guys are going to actually have something like that on-hand in case the chick wants to get down.

    1. Someone needs to make an app for that. If a EULA can hold up in court…..

      Hey baby just put your thumb riht here.

  17. I’m guessing there about 0 women participating in this thread, just like most of my sex life. But if Ted S. comes along and mentions shoes we could get 1.

  18. I’ve seen the girls that go to oxy. No way would I be wading into that feministing hell hole for some snatch. Especially when there is all of LA and loose actresses fucked up in clubs available.

    1. In any major metro area, online dating is a gold mine. Sure, you have to dig through the trash, but it’s worth it, and often times quite amusing.

      1. We didn’t need online dating, just a bullet of cocaine and a wallet full of condoms and you were ready to hit theclubs.

    2. ……tinder?……
      Works fairly well for me.

  19. I’m guessing there about 0 women participating in this thread

    That’s pretty much the average for H&R threads, so I don’t think it’s the topic that is making that so.

    1. I dunno, average is probably like 0.5 women. Round up!

      1. You are poisoning the thread. And GMO.

  20. I suspect the best defense here for a male is to video-tape the entire encounter. You’d want to check local wiretapping laws, of course, but even the “two-party” consent laws generally apply only to audio recordings.

    Then, when the accusation is made, you roll in to the hearing and start the tape.

    Hilarity would ensue.

    1. Isn’t that what revenge porn laws would make illegal. /tinfoil hat.

    2. Dennis: You’re watching my sex tapes again?

      Mac: Yeah.

      Dennis: What’d you think?

      Mac: You got weird balls.

      Dennis: Hmm.

      Charlie: You should see Frank’s balls. They’re like planets.

      1. I used a variant of the DENNIS system in college. Worked amazingly well on 19 year olds.

        1. So, in front of your target, you “accidentally” drop your “monster condom” that you use for your “magnum dong”?

  21. “If all drunken sex is rape, then Doe and his accuser are both guilty.”

    Women are VICTIMS! They can’t be anything but VICTIMS! Stop blaming the VICTIMS!

    1. They’re fragile and just cannot be expected to make adult decisions after two drinks!! But also, they’re strong and independent and deserve to fight on the frontlines in combat!

  22. Obvious solution is to film all your conquests. Game-tape is key for improvement anyway.

  23. An editor at the WSJ actually wrote an article detailing this same horseshit double standard that exists concerning drunk sex between men and women. Outrage ensued, hashtags were trended.
    http://online.wsj.com/news/art…..4067975558

  24. If people would just not do sex, so much drama could be avoided.

    1. s/do sex/breathe/

      F.I.F.Y.

    2. Look how well that worked for Elliot Rodger.

  25. No means no, even after you said yes. Apparently.

  26. Has it occurred to anyone else that making colleges hostile to men is part of an agenda to exclude men from higher-paying careers?

    -jcr

    1. Trade school is far more lucrative than a liberal arts degree from Occidental.

  27. I’m not a big believer in the sue everybody way of dealing with problems, but these people need to get beat on somehow and that seems to be the only way left open to us.

    1. Actually, don’t hold your breath waiting for the courts to do the right thing here. Courts can take generations to right wrongs. Voting for candidates that oppose this, and donating money to groups that lobby against these laws are probably the two most effective ways. Also, write emails or make calls to elected officials. It might sound naive, but they do worry about being re-elected.

  28. I saw a TV special about 30 years ago about a guy who had consensual sex with a woman he met in a bar. She was quite slutty, not drunk, came on to him, and he said yes. He got charged and CONVICTED of rape! Because…she had multiple personality disorder and the woman he met, “Jessica”, was a slut, but the woman when she was not “Jessica” was quite prudish. The police and courts decided he had sex with someone who did not have the capacity to consent.

  29. Why is the college even second guessing the police. Did not the whole Penn state debacle prove that rape cases should be handled exclusively by the police?

  30. Moral of the story, document every step of the way, written consent and video. And have witness ready to testify the encounter is wholly consensual.

    1. This situation had all that – except the video. Didn’t help.

  31. This college is insulting women. I guess we are kind of like children not responsible for our bodies, our drinking, our… The man who is very capable but equally intoxicated is at fault… not the poor helpless intoxicated woman (much like a child). I hate this victim mentality we can’t claim to “be equal” if we condone this kind of thinking. And, this kind of thinking/action makes us a second class citizen much like a child.

  32. Oh joy, my alma mater is in the news AGAIN.

    What grinds my gears most about this whole shitshow is that I know several women, including one of my best friends, who WERE raped during their time at Oxy. These incidents were brutal, violent, and deeply traumatic, not just a matter of day-after regret. Calling an experience like Jane Doe’s “rape” is like giving out purple hearts for papercuts; it’s incredibly disrespectful to actual rape survivors, and makes all rape accusations look frivolous by association.

  33. If a person is motivated at all, he or she can learn almost anything for free on this medium–the INTERNET. Sure college days are fun sometimes, and you can sometimes learn from super profs, but I would tell young people today to take a few courses at a cheap state university, and meanwhile WORK for pay at some business that interests you.

    That experience will prepare you for a satisfying life, without the need of a piece of paper that universities give to their grads.

  34. Jayrod|6.5.14 @ 12:55PM|#

    “Would some of you highly edumicated folks tell a brother why… why anyone would want to even attend college in this day and age?”

    Because science and them other fancy book-learnen subjects like fluid thermodynamics, which you must’ve plum forgot to mention. Partner.

    I learned all those subjects without benefit of college (love thermo) and wound up a lousy aerospace engineer. Had I gone to school I would have missed the 60s but I would have been a rocket scientist. Dang.

  35. So this guy’s an occidental rapist?

  36. For an in-depth expose of the evolution of universities from institutions of higher learning into witch-hunt tribunals for the “rape culture” advocates, see: New Puritanism ? New Paternalism: The “Rape Culture” Narrative Demeans Women, Demonizes Men, and Turns Universities into Witch Hunt Tribunals

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