Ukraine

Pro-Russian Gunmen Attack Eastern Ukraine

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Eastern Ukraine is reportedly under attack by pro-Russian separatists.

The latest from Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty:

  • Separatist protesters in the eastern Ukrainian city of Slovyansk have taken over the city hall and the local Ukrainian secret service (SBU) headquarters after earlier taking control of a police station.
  • Disturbances have also been reported in other eastern Ukrainian towns of Krasny Lyman and Kramatorsk.
  • The regional police chief in Ukraine's eastern industrial Donetsk Oblast has resigned amid pro-Russian protests in the regional capital, Donetsk.

Noting similarities between the current attack and the one in Crimea last month, the Kyiv Post writes that the situation "looks like a special Russian military operation" conducted by "masked men in army fatigues and bulletproof vests, armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles." The Post adds that local officials may have facilitated the offensive:

The swiftness and scope of today's attacks, as well as the support of the armed takeovers by the mayor of Sloviansk, suggest that the operation was planned well in advance and had support from within the ranks of Ukraine's government, including its law enforcement agencies, in Donetsk Oblast.

The Telegraph's Moscow correspondent Roland Oliphant is live-tweeting about passing through check points guarded by armed men. He snapped a photo of one masked gunmen, who showed off medals he claimed to receive fighting for Russia in Afghanistan.

Time reports that some participants are wearing the uniforms of Berkut, a notorious riot police force that the pro-western government disbanded for its role in brutalizing and killing civilians under orders from the previous president earlier this year.

Earlier this week separatists stormed government buildings, demanding secession referendums. They quickly abandoned most of them, but in one case the separatists allegedly took 60 hostages and wired the building with explosives

Read more Reason coverage of Ukraine here.

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  1. If your WarBoner lasts more than four hours, consult a physician.

    1. “They suffer from wariapism.”

    2. Washington’s WarBoner has lasted for over a decade though. What then?

      1. Explosive amputation would be for the best, but you just know those pricks aren’t going anywhere.

      2. If, by over a decade, you mean over 60 years, then I would agree.

      3. Nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

  2. One weird phenomenon this event seems to have touched off in the libertarian community is that even saying that some other government like Russia is misbehaving causes one to be labeled a “neocon,” despite lack of support for intervention.

    1. Metazoan|4.12.14 @ 2:17PM|#
      “One weird phenomenon this event seems to have touched off in the libertarian community is that even saying that some other government like Russia is misbehaving causes one to be labeled a “neocon,”

      Not nearly as weird as those with war boners whining about being called on it.

      1. No that’s not weird at all. Meta is right about the bizarre justifications/excuses seen here regarding Russia’s behaviour.

        1. Russia is the aggressor in a war against Ukraine, and has committed multiple war crimes.

          Not saying any of that justifies our involvement, but I find it odd that the libertarian community (you remember “war is the health of the state”, right?) practically never calls this spade a spade.

          1. Really? I thought the standard reply was “Russia are the aggressors, but that doesn’t mean we should get involved.”

            That’s what I think, anyway.

            1. I thought the standard reply was “Russia are the aggressors, but that doesn’t mean we should get involved.”

              Sometimes you don’t even see that first phrase. Like, for example, in the article above.

              1. I’ll cut Zenon some slack, since 1) this is a fairly new report, and while it’s a good bet that Russia is involved, it could be some pro-Russian idiots acting on their own; and 2) he also doesn’t get into whether the US should be involved at all. It’s a breaking news story.

                1. Its not just, or even mainly, this incident.

                  Its the entire invasion and annexation of Crimea that rarely-to-never gets called out as an act of war, sprinkled with war crimes.

                  1. Blockading the Ukrianian bases in Crimea was an act of peace.

                    I’ve been busy in an argument with an apologist for Russia who claims there was no Soviet Russian attempt to forbicly change the demographics of places like Estonia.

                  2. No argument about it being an act of war against Ukraine, but war crimes? Seriously? If you’re referring to the out-of-uniform troops, that’s not really a war crime — it just removes them from GC protections. Are you talking about something else?

            2. There’s been a lot of Neo-Rothbard nonsense in H&R. A while ago Ron Paul was seriously positing that this was all because of The Banks. He has gone completely insane.

              1. A while ago Ron Paul was seriously positing that this was all because of The Banks.

                JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!

              2. Ron Paul has always been insane. Agreeing with him on some issues doesn’t change that he’s been out of his mind pretty much his entire career.

          2. Not never. It seems to be a Rothbard thing. Or maybe a paleocon thing. IDK.

            I’m much more of an Old Right type when it comes to foreign policy. It’s less moralistic bullshit about national sovereignty and more of a healthy desire not to get involved in the snakepits of the world.

            1. This, and something, something “entagling alliances..”

              1. Whoever said that was clearly not a True American Patriot. MURIKA needs to meet all the enemies of freedom wherever they may be found.

            2. Right, but “don’t stick your dick in a beehive” foreign policy is miles away from “…and that’s why Putin is awesome and the USSR was the innocent victim of the Cold War”, which is how a lot of Rothbardism is presented and in fact believed.

      2. Conveniently, you cut out the “despite lack of support for intervention.”

        So the only way for me to not have a warboner is to think that Russia can do no wrong?

        1. Metazoan|4.12.14 @ 2:32PM|#
          “Conveniently, you cut out the “despite lack of support for intervention.””

          Sorry, war boner = support for intervention.
          If you don’t support it, why do you have any problem?

          1. Yes, thanks for the example of the stupid shit that’s being said about this.

          2. I can look at the situation, conclude that what’s happening is wrong, yet not support sending soldiers sworn only to defend our constitution to die for it.

            1. Then you don’t have a warboner. They aren’t just pro-intervention, they are actively looking for an excuse.

              Russia’s being a fuckwad and no Americans need to die over it.

              1. I agree with you (and, probably, Sevo) here. My complaint was that some of us have been tarred as fully war-erect simply because we said Russia is being a fuckwad.

                1. The other end of the strawman see-saw from the warboners that say anyone who thinks it’s a bad idea to kill every non-American on the thinest of justifications as a filthy pacifist.

                  Go watch that new Pakistan thread. It’ll come up.

                  Both sides are assholes.

                  1. warboners that say anyone who thinks it’s a bad idea to kill every non-American on the thinest of justifications as a filthy pacifist.

                    Speaking of strawmen.

                    1. Speaking of strawmen.

                      I’m saying both sides employ strawmen. I know reading can be hard when you have your bloodlust flowing.

  3. The Ukrainian government better put its foot down right now. It has hours before this gets worse. I read that he Sloviansk incident only involves 20 people. It should be pretty easy to rapidly neutralize them.

    1. If I’m Kiev, I execute all the surviving “gunmen” summarily and publicly. Like, before the end of the day, and in the public square.

      They are either (a) traitors, deserving of the usual penalty for treason and armed insurrection, or (b) Russian soldiers out of uniform and committing war crimes, and thus deserving of the usual penalty for such.

      1. I like. I’d have a quicky show-trial too. Right now the ineptitude and indecisive cowardice of the Kiev government is not winning them any allies. If Russia wants to invade they will whether you give them the excuse they want or not. May was well make it hurt as much as you can.

        1. I’d skip the show trial. Haul them out to the square and put a bullet in their heads.

          If they aren’t Russians, its none of Russia’s business. If they are Russians, well, Putin can’t complain because they weren’t supposed to be there at all. Deniable, expendable, all that.

          1. Technically there are rule of law problems with this….

            1. Putin:”What is this ‘Law’ of which you so lovingly speak?

          2. Ukrainian interior and defense ministries are apparently implementing an ‘operational defense plan’.

            http://www.reuters.com/article…..B520140412

            Whatever you do do it quick. Try not to do your best bovine-with-its-thumb-up-its-but impression like when Crimea got invaded.

            1. Gunfight between police and unidentified gunmen in one city ongoing. Gunmen repelled by police in another city.

              http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27005783

      2. If I’m Kiev, I execute all the surviving “gunmen” summarily and publicly. Like, before the end of the day, and in the public square.

        All hail the Internet Tough Guy.

        The real people in Kiev know that Putin would have their balls on a platter if that happened.

  4. Probably time for the EU to start thinking about some self-defense. I’ll be, oh, 5,000 miles behind them.
    Good luck you guys! Hope all that free shit was worth it!

    1. Oh come on, we need to have tanks and artillery all over the world to defend America. It’s not like we could be content with a strong fleet and air force and rely on a small elite cadre of ground troops to defend our actual country. That’s crazy talk.

      MUST PROJECT POWER. If there is a square inch of earth that Amurika cannot land freedom boots then you HATE AMURICKA.

      1. Who needs ground troops for defense when you’ve got a rifle behind every blade of grass?

      2. I have literally heard the argument that we should stop them over there to keep from coming here. RED DAWN IN THE ARCTIC

        1. So your war-boner is small compared to that of your friends. I’m so sorry that you feel so inadequate.

          1. My War Boner can blot out the sun! It’s just a lot more selective than them. I have standards.

            1. I have standards.

              Trying to distance yourself from John I see.

              1. Mostly to make room for my WarBoner.

  5. He snapped a photo of one masked gunmen, who showed off medals he claimed to receive fighting for Russia in Afghanistan.

    Yes, and Rambo will be on his way from Burma to the Ukraine any minute now.

    1. That guy must be transcendentally stupid. Does he not reflect on what happened to Russia in Afghanistan? Is that totally lost on him while he invades Ukraine? Why are Russians such a bunch of stupid trogs?

      1. Rasputin.

  6. I have a feeling that a headline reading “Russian Soldiers”, rather than “Pro-Russian Gunmen”, would be more accurate.

    1. It’s possible, and I repeat, the Euros ought to start thinking about self defense.
      Fuck ’em. I’m tired of paying them to sit around whining about ‘US cowboys!’
      Let ’em whine about Russian thugs until they decide to do something.

      1. Euros needs to cowboy up, but they’re too “skeered” (exception being the Poles). Their cultural elites won’t do anything though.

  7. What would Reagan do?

      1. “Nancy? Is Vlad up to his old tricks again? That Vlad! Such a character!”

  8. Went to buy ammo and targets today, and was pleased to see several customers carrying openly. Then when I took the kid to the playground, I could hear gunfire in the distance. The sound of freedom.

  9. Totally OT: there is a silent Tax War being carried out between the states, and libertarians and other small-government advocates are the winners. Big winners. Today’s victory: the state of New York.

    For the first time since 1917, manufacturers will no longer be responsible for paying corporate income tax in the state of New York. Prior to the passage of the 2014-2015 state budget, manufacturers owed 5.9 percent of their earnings to the state. In addition to eliminating the corporate income tax for manufacturers, non-manufacturing corporations will see their rates decrease from 7.1 percent to 6.5 percent ? the lowest it has been since 1968.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/tr…..l-love-it/

    Think about it. Blue NY and Cuomo are capitulating to the new reality. This is a rout in our favor and not even NY can say no. It’s unstoppable. If Cuomo would just pull his head out and get NY fracking he’d definitely be one of the Dems I’d like to see with more influence in Team Blue.

    1. I think Cuomo needs to pull his head out on a lot more than fracking. Gun control being at the top of the list.

      1. Well that too. It’s team blue. It makes Team Red look almost not awful when you squint at it. I’ll take just about anything.

    2. Is there any manufacturing left in New York?

      And what is the other hand taking away?

      1. And what is the other hand taking away?

        This was my first thought. You know they’re going to steal that money back from somewhere.

        1. They can’t. The money is walking. The Laffer curve moves down and to the left. NY’s tax regime changes will put them closer to the peak, so revenue will increase from this change.

  10. Comeon man lets jsut roll with it OK.

    http://www.GotsDatAnon.tk

  11. When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    Far as I’m concerned if the people of east Ukraine don’t want to be a part of the US/NATO funded and directed government, which seized power via coup, then that is their right and libertarians should support them.

    I don’t see how any person who calls themselves a champion of individual liberty can actually post soemthing like

    “If I’m Kiev, I execute all the surviving “gunmen” summarily and publicly. Like, before the end of the day, and in the public square.”

    I would think peaceful separation would be best for everyone involved. Let the citizens of that region vote.

    1. the US/NATO funded and directed government

      That’s how you Rothtard ladies and gents.

  12. No notice that the photo depicts a distinctly non-AK-pattern rifle?

    1. First thing I thought. That’s quite obviously an AR15 pattern rifle.

  13. This could never happen here. Right, Mr. Bundy?

  14. Gillespie and Welch should get an arms license and start dealing weapons to any and all anti-Putinists in Ukraine and Crimea.

    It’s all about liberty folks.

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