The Independents

Tonight on The Independents: You're on Drugs


Dr. Carl Hart |||

What are the pharmacological distinctions between the drugs we take and the drugs we prohibit? Not so bloody much, we learn tonight on The Independents at 9 pm ET, 6 pm PT (with repeats three hours later).

First up on the show is Columbia University neuropsychopharmacologist Dr. Carl Hart (watch his interview here; read an edited transcript of a presentation he gave at a Reason event here), who will talk about the similarities between meth and Adderall, and how the histories of discrimination and prohibition are inextricably linked. Next will be an interview about performance-enhancing drugs (including those taken by classical musicians!) with bodybuilder-turned filmmaker Chris Bell, director of Bigger, Stronger, Faster*.

Next we turn to a discussion of classic drug scares, from Krokodil to bath salts to Molly to spice to absinthe to ice. Then comedian Dave Hill joins us as a contestant on the side-effects gameshow, Name That Drug. Psychiatric-medication skeptic Peter Breggin comes on to explain why he opposes prescribing behavioral medication to children, and why he thinks anti-depressants don't work. Carl Hart then comes back to debate Fox News Legal Analyst and former prosecutor Lis Wiehl about the pros and cons of legalization and decriminalization.

Throughout the show Kennedy will obviously be assaulting people in the streets of New York about their drug habits, and the episode ends with a plea by Kmele Foster to (what else?) abolish the Food and Drug Administration. Send your tweets to @IndependentsFBN throughout, hashtag 'em #indFBN, and BYOD! 

NEXT: Feds: California Farmers Won't Get Federal Water From Central Valley Project

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  1. I asked this before but I didn’t get very good questions. Is the show good? How are its ratings doing?

    1. ‘very good answers’

      1. Cyto,
        I don’t watch it, but I don’t watch TV ‘news’ under any circumstances.

        1. Hey, Matt Welch! If your psychiatric skeptic comes out with the old “I’m dubious of psychiatric illness because there is no lab test or X-Ray that proves it exists,” you can say “You’re right! In fact, by your logic, there is no such thing as pain!”

      2. It is good in the sense that gives a non-statist view of the issues of the day. It’s sometimes maddening in that they devote minimal time to each topic (like these types of shows do), and Kennedy dominates the conversation, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. Welch is Welch and good when given the opportunity to speak, and Kmele Foster is generally excellent, but again, not given much of a chance to talk. The guests are also hit or miss.

        So, in conclusion, you’ll probably need to judge for yourself.

    2. It’s much better when it’s live. Kennedy is funny and engaging but I personally think she has a lot to learn about being a good talk show host. She tends to talk over the guests and not manage discussion time very well.

      Matt and Kmele Foster do provide excellent commentary, though.

      Of course I probably wouldn’t watch it if I didn’t have the Hit & Run live commenting thread to compliment it.

      1. Admit it, you just watch for the Two Minutes Hate. Which I am still in the lead with, am I not correct? With 4 mentions?

        (blows on nails, polishes them on shirt)

        1. I don’t even remember what yours were, so they couldn’t have been that hateful.

          Gilmore and Lady Bertrum had you soundly beat in quality

          1. This coming from the guy who thought the Broncos were going to win the Superbowl.

            When I want your opinion on the quality of my hate, I’ll ask you! Fuckhead! I hate you!

            (visibly controls self)

            Also, I’m still winning. And as we all know, that’s what really counts.

        2. I would rather have 1 filet mignon than 3 shitty cheeseburgers.

          1. And I’d rather have the gold draped around my neck than not even being on the board. Because then I get all the filet mignon I want. Speaking of which, maybe I should get that for dinner tonight. With a sour ale.

            1. Your marrow butter comment got in my head a few weeks ago. I’m still trying to find a way to have it without paying for the kids, too….

              1. It’s not that special, more of a novelty. Marrow has almost no flavor anyway, it’s just cool. The butter is the important part.

                1. When I roast marrow bones for making beef pho, I love sprinkling a little bit of garlic salt and parsley on the marrow and eating it right out of the bone. I guess most of the flavor is garlic and parsley, though.

        3. What? 4?? 3 dude.

          You were @ 2 on the first, then I thought only 1 this recent time around. Although I didn’t actually see the last one.

          not….that I’m *counting* (hides spreadsheet)

          1. I thought I had one more in another Two Minutes’ hate.

            (quickly checks spreadsheet in background)

            Yeah, yeah, I could swear it…

            (narrows eyes at GILMORE)

            So you’re my only real competition, huh? What’s your address?

            1. as far as I’m aware there have been 3? 1/22 – 2/05 – 2/19

              You got 2 in the January segment,

              (“cleopatras tomb” and “Ron Paul: only man never interrupted”)…then 1 more in the most recent one. (or so I am told)

              In the middle you scored donut.

              I got 1 on 2/05 (“pancreatic cancer”) and 2 more this week, though I have no idea what they were and can’t find any replay of the segment.

              That puts us both @3… our destinies set in inevitable mortal confrontation. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.

              [Also scoring were FdA, DGWF, Lady b, perhaps some I’ve missed?

              An unattributed comment (which I *think* may have been me, but many said the same thing) was, “Let the communist pick a single topic, then beat him until he dies” That one we can call a Team goal.

              1. having reviewed youtube linky to the recent Hate,

                You got “Is Kmele Drunk?” this time. So 3.

                Also, for the record Matt? The reason your Air Drumming is ‘pretentious’ is because you aren’t satisfied like most people to simply work 8th notes on the hi-hat: NOOOOO, you have to be on the invisible *ride cymbal* , and THEN play a fill?? its a dead giveaway of a guy who still jams with his band on the weekend and subtly wants someone to ask him about it…

                …ask me how I know this? I know. (covers face in shame and sobs)

                That said, I am pleasantly surprised they noted the spelling error.

              2. So we’re tied at three, meaning we share the lead. Does anyone else have two, or do they all just have one or *cough* loser *cough* zero?

                Unfortunately for me, I wasn’t able to put down some hate on Wednesday, nor will I tonight, so I’m not creating the fresh material I need for more points. But I will be drinking with friends, so that’s always a plus.

              1. I’m with the Russian judges; I’ll call it 1.5.

      2. “I probably wouldn’t watch it if I didn’t have the Hit & Run live commenting thread to compliment it.”

        I think that right there is a genuwine contender for Hate Win.

        1. Whoa, you’re right. And I wasn’t even trying! But unfortunately the hate contest is biweekly, so my comment will probably be buried under a load of other ones.

        2. They probably don’t want to let the median primetime FBN viewer (who fell asleep waiting for Lou Dobbs to come on, and therefore missed the boner pill commercials) to venture out to H&R, and come back scarred and horrified, never to watch Kennedy again.

    3. “How are its ratings doing?”

      I think they’re shooting for a particular demographic, and I bet Fox sees this show as a pitch to that demo.

      “First, Fox News gets by far the most viewers, second, almost all the viewers are ancient. Fox News boasted an average total of 1,770,000 on a daily basis, but only 297,000 were between 25-54 and those are the numbers that advertisers pay for.”…..61736.html

      Think about that.

      If Kennedy and Co. brought in ONLY 300,000 viewers (under 55) nationally, that would double Fox’s lucrative target audience.

      They’d do more programming like this. Maybe Gillespie would get a show called, “The Jacket”.

      1. The commercials that they show would indicate that they are targeting the 55+ audience, or at least that’s how they are currently selling their advertising…, medical malpractice lawyers, the chick who has never used the internet (I’m getting pretty damn tired of that one), etc etc

        1. Maybe they haven’t had a chance to really pitch the show to advertisers yet.

          Those are the advertisers they already have that are already willing to pay to be on Fox.

          If Liberty Freaks attracts new viewers, it should attract new advertisers, too.

        2. I don’t know if Matt would really want us to say this, but if I were a wealthy industrialist with an advertising budget that took a keen interest in financing libertarian causes, rather than making donations to a libertarian think tank, right now, I might buy advertising on, “Republicans Who Want to Smoke Pot”.

          Or, maybe more to Matt’s liking, in addition to making donations to a libertarian think tank, I might also buy a lot of advertising through my company on “Cosmotarian Today”.

          1. Interesting way to look at it.

            I could see a lot of it being who advertises at that time on FBN — just not many. CNBC has a following entirely independent of MSNBC, and that’s what FBN is trying to build/compete with. But CNBC programming pretty much ends at dinner time. If there isn’t a Lehman/Bear Stearns, their Sunday night is infomercials.

            Maybe Fox/FBN is going the same way — FBN can have the market programming during the day, with political on FoxNews. At night, FoxNews keeps going, FBN becomes a tryout spot/maybe libertarian network?

            1. A lamer adultswim in other words.

              1. well, then we’ll see blatant stoner references and fan service.

                “And now, at this commercial break, we give a shoutout to our most prolific commenter today!”

        3. “Bring your small business to New York! We’ll won’t tax you for 10 years!”

          I *totally* believe that.

        4. Don’t forget the walk-in tub.

          I personally miss the Giant Angry Beaver.

          1. Forgot Belize as well.

            1. I figured Belize is actually advertising to us.

              “Come, live where Jon McAffee hired assassins sent to kill him, to protect him! And maybe killed his neighbor. It’s okay in Belize. Anything goes. You’ll like it here, Independents viewers.”

              1. We’re actually going to the beach in Belize for vacation next month. I haven’t seen the commercials. Are they for travel or real estate?

                1. “Own a piece of Belize”.

                  1. I wouldn’t mind owning this part.

          2. I might want one of those one day. Depends on how lazy I get.

              1. Without having seen the commercial, yes.

      2. but only 297,000 were between 25-54 and those are the numbers that advertisers pay for.

        25-54? How many catheters and reverse mortgages do they buy?

    4. If I’m reading this right, the highest rated The Independents for the week of January 27 to February 2, 2014 was 110,000 viewers (ages 2 and over).

      The highest rated The Independents for the week of February 10 to 16, 2014 was only 43,000 viewers.

      1. Hmmm, apparently a Dog Show get higher ratings than the Olympics.

      2. And in their time slot, the average that week for the Fox Business was 31,000, which would have meant they’re giving Fox a boost.

        And, again, if they’re pulling in a younger demographic, with those numbers, then they’re really helping Fox Business.

        And the show hasn’t been around very long. With numbers like that, I bet they’re doing great.

  2. Hey, this looks like a good spot!
    Ya know that CA O-care web site? The one that’s the model for all the others?

    “Covered California website stymied by software problems”
    “Just as California begins its final marketing push to get people signed up for health coverage by the end of March, the portal for the state’s exchange has been shut down because of software problems.”
    “Earlier this week, the agency unveiled its latest enrollment figures, which showed that the exchange is meeting its targets and more than 828,000 Californians had enrolled in private health plans as of Feb. 14.”

    Since O-care cost CA residents some 3M cancellations, I’m pretty sure the goal posts have migrated one more time. Where’s Jakeand Ace to tell us it’s just a question of sales?!…..256644.php

    1. We also must consider how many of the 800,000 sign ups are actually going to make payments for their plans.

      The sign ups don’t tell you that crucial bit of information.

      1. Yes, that ol’ revealed preference!
        ‘I’m really going to buy one of those!’ Yeah, I’ll believe it when the wallet comes out of the pocket.

      2. Are Republicans even trying? Another Obamacare horror story bites the dust

        The “victims” in one of their ads attacking Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., turned out to be paid actors. Now in Michigan, they’ve found a genuinely sympathetic character ? Leukemia patient Julie Boonstra ? who seems to earnestly dislike the Affordable Care Act. But neither Boonstra nor AFP can quite put their fingers on why she’s worse off under the law than she was before. That’s not to say she should be an Obamacare fan ? who am I to tell her that? But there’s almost no denying that she’s more protected now than she was before, and probably better off financially as well.….._the_dust/

        Ratfuckers abound!

        1. The palpable delight you take in batting for a statist program really underscores your “classical liberal” credentials, as well as your libertarian midiclorian count (even higher than Master Yoda’s!), or whatever the hell you’re touting to pretend you’re a libertarian these days.

          1. He’s the ultimate concern troll. He even has the test scores to prove it!

          2. The ACA is a mish-mash of statism and pro-market reforms.

            On the whole it is not a big deal.

            What I WILL take delight in will be rubbing the Peanut’s noses in their wrongheaded about how the ACA will result in HISTORIC LOSSES for the Dems. 98% of us are not affected by the law.

            1. Palin’s Buttplug|2.21.14 @ 6:41PM|#
              “The ACA is a mish-mash of statism and pro-market reforms.”

              You’re a lying sack of shit.

            2. “98% of us are not affected by the law”

              I repeat: You’re a lying sack of shit.

            3. What I WILL take delight in will be rubbing the Peanut’s noses in their wrongheaded about how the ACA will result in HISTORIC LOSSES for the Dems.

              I truly can’t wait for the mid-term elections. Specifically because you won’t be able to show your face here for months.

              1. That is what John, Tulpa, and others said in Oct 2012.

                1. Palin’s Buttplug|2.21.14 @ 8:16PM|#
                  “That is what John, Tulpa, and others said in Oct 2012.”

                  So you’re betting on mass stupidity? Well, you certainly have the head for it.

        2. No! Paid actors in ads?!
          It’s a shame they didn’t just walk down the street and find one of the millions screwed by O-care.
          Get fucked with a harvesting machine.

        3. My mom lost her plan at work. Had to pick another one.

          Now she can’t use her oncologist.

          You know how much it sucks when you’ve already been treated by one oncologist, and now you have to go find another?

          You probably don’t. Progressives typically ignore qualitative considerations. If it doesn’t show up on a government spreadsheet somehow, they don’t give a shit. That’s another reason why progressives are America’s most horrible people. They don’t care.

          Anyway, Mom liked her doctor, but she couldn’t keep her doctor.

          Barack Obama is a lying sack of shit.

          1. You know how much it sucks when you’ve already been treated by one oncologist, and now you have to go find another?

            50/50 the new one is better.

            1. Palin’s Buttplug|2.21.14 @ 6:42PM|#
              “50/50 the new one is better.”

              You’re a lying sack of shit.

            2. “50/50 the new one is better.”

              You mean according to you?

              According to Barack Obama?

              One of the main reasons I oppose ObamaCare is because I don’t want some jerkoff who calls himself “Palin’s Buttplug” making qualitative choices for my mother.

              Come to think of it, it isn’t any better when Barack Obama and his minions are making qualitative choices for me either.

              Everybody gets whatever qualitative considerations Shrike thinks is important?

              Fuck you, Shrike!

              1. Fuck you, Shrike!

                That is a justifiable reply on the surface.

                However I was referring to the pure odds of the situation – which are 50-50 until some research is done, your mom’s bias is taken out, etc.

                1. Oh, she really lost her doctor. Her provider was dropped…

                  Scripps is a great system. Right in the middle of Biotech Beach. They found her cancer with experimental equipment at its earliest possible stage. They wouldn’t have detected it otherwise–and early detection is the single most important factor in your prognosis.

                  Did you know ObamaCare taxes medical devices to actively discourage hospitals from investing in new technology?

                  Anyway, the company’s insurer just couldn’t afford keep Scripps on the provider list with ObamaCare.

                  And stuff like that’s happening all over the place:

                  “In Connecticut, United cut about 20% of its doctors, according to the state medical society. The American Medical Association says United and other insurers have taken similar action in at least a dozen states.

                  The patient costs a lot,” said Todd Baker of the Ohio State Medical Association. “And United is going to those patients’ doctors and dropping them and therefore getting rid of the patient.”


                  Maybe you shouldn’t believe every speculation you read on

                  1. “Did you know ObamaCare taxes medical devices to actively discourage hospitals from investing in new technology?”

                    Do you think dipshit cares?
                    So long as it doesn’t affect the taste of Obo’s boots, he doesn’t give a hoot.

                2. Palin’s Buttplug|2.21.14 @ 7:00PM|#
                  “However I was referring to the pure odds of the situation -”

                  You’re a lying sack of shit.

                3. Skepticism about people’s ability to make choices to themselves as opposed to a government managed system are hallmarks of classical liberal thought.

                4. That is a justifiable reply on the surface.

                  However I was referring to the pure odds of the situation – which are 50-50 until some research is done, your mom’s bias is taken out, etc.

                  Jebus. Did you catch any of those straws you’re grasping at?

                5. I was referring to the pure odds of the situation

                  “If you like you doctor/plan, you can….flip a coin. Sorry, you lose.”

                  “Hey, you didn’t even look at the coin!”

            3. I am very sorry to hear that Ken. I sincerely hope your mother is able to find a competent replacement and fares well.

            4. “50/50 the new one is better.”

              You’re a cunt you know that?

              Classical liberal. Pft.

          2. All of you trying to respond to the lying piece of shit that goes by palin’s buttplug, keep in mind that this is a person completely bereft of intellectual honesty and afflicted with a serious personality disorder. A person who gloated over a child’s birth defect. A person who then, later, was unable to understand why myself and others here would not be ‘friends’ with it. It is sociopathic.

            You are wasting your time talking to it.

              1. Palin’s Buttplug|2.21.14 @ 8:20PM|#
                Fuck you, asshole.

        4. So let me get this straight, PB. You, a devout libertarian, scoring 90-some percent on the libertarian purity test, support government controlled healthcare?

          1. And touts his messiah as an ardent defender of the second amendment.

          2. So let me get this straight, PB. You, a devout libertarian, scoring 90-some percent on the libertarian purity test, support government controlled healthcare?

            I don’t. I merely maintain that the ACA will not result in an electoral “bloodbath” in 2014.

            1. Palin’s Buttplug|2.21.14 @ 8:19PM|#
              “I don’t. I merely maintain that the ACA will not result in an electoral “bloodbath” in 2014.”

              Yeah, shitstain, you’re hoping there’s a lot of assholes just like you.

  3. Let’s see if our Indy panel has the courage to talk about bath salts and Krokodil and others for what they are, cover for government and/or corporate experiments on reanimating dead tissue.

    1. You know, we’ve actually seen a number of cases of people having serious problems from bath salts in our ER, and I’ve heard from colleagues around the country that they’ve treated much higher numbers than we have. I don’t think bath salts is a fradulent issue. Krokodil, on the other hand….

      I think a much bigger issue is the deaths from people mixing fentanyl with heroin.

      1. I think a much bigger issue is the deaths from people mixing fentanyl with heroin.

        Is that something users do themselves? Or are they buying bad heroin?

        1. See Hoffman, P. S.

  4. Q for those who watch the show:

    Who would you like to see on the show who hasn’t gone on yet?

    For myself, I’d like to see Thomas Sowell on the show. I’d also like to see them slap around Jesse Myerson, some.

    1. Do an episode explaining what anarchy actually is and have Walter Block or David Friedman as guests.

      1. Explaining what anarchy is is mostly useless. Those who fear it, fear it irrationally, so no logical explanation is going to get through to them. It’s like trying to explain to a crazy evangelical that that kid who just happens to have a “666” shaped birthmark on his head and who looks like Sam Neil isn’t actually the antichrist.

        1. C’mon Epi, give the evangelicals credit: they’re holding out for someone of at least Warty-caliber evil and hideousness before declaring them the anti-Christ — a couple of dildo-fingers here and there; the smell of sulfur and burned flesh following a sexual encounter, that sort of thing.

          1. I’ve seen Left Behind*, man. I know the truth!

            * I know so little about popular evangelical culture that I rented that movie because I thought it was some kind of post-apocalyptic horror movie, and since it also starred Kirk Cameron (who I did not know was super-religious), I had to try it. So I have actually seen it.

            1. I was sprung with that movie by someone who thought I shared their affinity for crappy evangelical Christiatainment. Suffice it to say, my mockery of the video while watching it in their presence did not forge a lasting friendship, heh.

            2. The Rapture is the best Christfag movie not set in the ancient Holy Land.

    2. How about Sowell vs Bruce Bartlett?

      Bartlett would send Sowell to back to the GOP hood.

      1. The GOP “hood”?

        Holy fucking shit. Homophobic and racist as all fuck.

      2. This is the dumbest thing you’ve ever said.

    3. Iron Chef Geoff Zakarian.

    4. The Father has been on, but I don’t believe the Son.

      1. The Holy Spirit must be pissed.

    5. Walter Williams, Bryan Caplan.

  5. …and the episode ends with a plea by Kmele Foster to (what else?) abolish the Food and Drug Administration.


  6. Q2: Red Eye, or The Independents?

  7. Q2: Red Eye, or The Independents?

    1. A question so nice, I asked it twice!

    2. The one without an NSA/Stop ‘n Frisk apologist posing as a libertarian.

      1. Seriously. Even Andy can’t save it anymore…

  8. Next we turn to a discussion of classic drug scares, from Krokodil to bath salts to Molly to spice to absinthe to ice.

    Sounds like a fun cocktail.

  9. Question:
    The Ukrainian public seems to favor the Euros over Russia, but do any of them favor a liberal economy?
    Or is this the hope that the Euros will simply hand out the free shit with fewer strings?

  10. Was just listening to Garibaldi. I don’t know where he got this poll number, whether it was his call in or from another source, but this is amazing if true (and not from a libertarian audience). The question was:

    Of the last group of Republican presidential candidates, which one would you like to see run again (I’m doing this from memory so the numbers are +/- a percentage or two)?

    Santorum- 1%
    Newt- 6%
    Perry- 3%
    Romney- 4%
    Cain/Bachmann/whoever the other nobody was combined- 15%

    Ron Paul- 70%

    Had to be a fixed audience. Public opinion couldn’t have shifted that much, could it?

    1. I’m not used to good news. Something’s gotta be amiss…

    2. Look at this group of sad-sack clowns:

      Santorum- 1%
      Newt- 6%
      Perry- 3%
      Romney- 4%
      Cain/Bachmann/whoever the other nobody was combined- 15%

      They will be missed (by comedians).

    3. Any poll on the internet will be won by Ron Paul.

    4. Santorum still sounds like a derogatory joke name. Shouldn’t he get a real name if he wants to be a legitimate candidate?

  11. Anybody know if there’s a replay segment from Weds 2mins hate, OR from the apocryphal “Call in” bit? (which no one seems to believe really happened)… When I checked the FBN live stream, it was still showing the aftershow from Monday. With the toad.

    Post Hoc Independents Attire Review, for Weds, Feb 19th =

    Matt = Mostly Winning! in a rare showing, shirt and tie reconcile their differences and decide to work together for the greater good. His suit jacket, however, startled by the sudden comity of these perpetual rivals, feels it has been cut out of negotiations, so chooses to spoil the moment by going 3-button, and well… needlessly *black*? While a trifecta was probably too much to hope for, we welcome these generally-positive developments.

    Kmele = Neutral. Apparently Wednesday is “Colorblind” outfit-day. While we continue to maintain a bullish view on Kmele overall, questions about changing lapel devices and inconsistent coordination of pocket-hanky remain. Note = *The equally dark-toned jacket served to heighten the below-noted “Halloween-supernova”-effect.

    Kennedy = Cabela’s line of “hunting safe” women’s wear, while admittedly providing superlative protection from being accidentally shot-gunned, has been shown to have adverse effects on some viewers as well as older, non-plasma television sets. If you are still seeing a bright orange blob in the center of your vision, contact a physician immediately.

    1. Two minutes hate here:…..aSpcpbSSVw

      1. That’s awesome, maybe the best two minute hate yet, bummed I missed it.

    2. The more you do of these, the less I dislike you.

      1. (polite bow)

    3. I really like the comedian who plays Bernie Max Smith, HR director.

      1. If that guy is actually their HR director, he missed his calling. His deadpan is perfect. Great, great choice for presenting the Two Minutes Hate.

        1. Hate to burst anyone’s bubble (not really) but he’s actually this guy

          1. Wow, this guy is incredibly funny. I’m really wanting his book now.

          2. There is some funny stuff there:
            “If you watch Jaws backwards, it’s about a shark which keeps vomiting up people until they have to open a beach.”

        2. So, I don’t get FBN. Do you guys e-mail your “2 minutes of hate” comments in, or are the hosts also trolling HnR?

          1. Type it here, and if it makes the cut, you’re (barely) famous.

    4. I agree 100 percent.

      Can we start up a collection to buy a copy of Flusser’s Dressing the Man for the Independents hosts, please?

      1. its really just Matt. And its a case of “he knows its *wrong*…but feels so right” To him at least. or at most.

        There is no other explanation for the repeat-offender appearance of “red shirt-red tie-with-brown-coat”, and other monstrosities

        Or this – variations of which appear from time to time =…..4#t=00m40s

        Or his just general fondness for ‘shirts of wrong color’

        Lesson from pale-ish guy myself = white shirts make you look a lot “less dead”

        Also, redheads generally don’t need more pink and red and purple and peach. Colors he frequently wears AT THE SAME TIME.

        That said, he’s got a tan/light brown suit that he sometimes wears that works like a charm. If he could resolve his complications with sport coats and shirt colors, he could rejoin humanity and all would be forgiven.

  12. Since assplug got me looking at Salon, here’s some incredible concern-trolling about Rand Paul trying to make libertarianism palpable for Christians

    Paul’s reasoning doesn’t stand up to the scrutiny of consistent application, which weakens his claim that libertarianism and Christianity are well-committed philosophies. He’s willing, for example, to have mercy on those guilty of crimes by reducing prison sentences, returning felons the right to vote, and doing away with mandatory minimum sentences. This all fits well with Christ’s call for service to “the least of these”. But what does Paul imagine to show mercy to people in those other categories? What provisions should the state make for, say, the sick and the poor?

    In these arenas, Paul’s interest in mercy and the justice of the Gospel seems to mysteriously dry up.
    Paul is clear: While physicians might have some kind of vague moral obligation to lend a hand to the poor, the state should not, in his view, legitimize that duty by expanding universal healthcare to all. Why the state should exemplify and extend Christian forgiveness and mercy to the criminal but not the ill is anyone’s guess.

    Because it harms no one to not destroy a person’s life by sending them to jail for drugs but costs everyone something to pay for shitty government-run healthcare?

    1. Fair. But then (Rand?) Paul should drop all pretense as to his Christianity.

      Like I have always said a person cannot be a libertarian and a Christian at the same time.

      1. Yes, but then the things you always say are always wrong. Which, btw, is a wonderful convenience.

        1. No man can be free when he is bound by the shackles of a religion.

          He might THINK he is, however.

          Do you?

          1. Palin’s Buttplug|2.21.14 @ 6:56PM|#
            “No man can be free when he is bound by the shackles of a religion.”

            But assholes like you can claim to be so while shackled to the state.

            1. Sevo, shreik’s bond with the state is enthusiastically consesual. Shackles are only used when the state is in the mood for that – to which shreik willingly obliges. He’s their ideological fuck-toy.

          2. Amazing someone could so completely misunderstand the meaning of the word Free. To the completely debased, Freedom only means the freedom to do what they like. Restricting peoples right to their own conscience isn’t a restriction of freedom to the shrieking idiot because he doesn’t believe.

            Freedom actually does mean the right to believe things that turds such as yourself do not. It really isn’t surprising that you don’t know the difference. Libertarian? How could you be when you so hate Human Liberty? You can’t.

      2. Palin’s Buttplug|2.21.14 @ 6:49PM|#
        ‘Like I have always lied…’

    2. And lo, a man went down to Jericho but was waylaid by robbers. And a Democrat and a Republican passed by on the other side because they were in a rush to get to Congress to vote on the Fairness and Compassion Act of 2014. And a Samaritan came up and helped the guy out. But because his Samaritan license had expired he got a ticket. The End.

      1. *Applause*

    3. mercy != charity

  13. “The NAACP has offered Republican Sen. Rand Paul the opportunity to speak to the organization, with the its interim president saying, “We’d love to have him.”

    “In an interview taped for C-SPAN’s “Newsmakers” that will air Sunday, Lorraine Miller said she was interested in hearing more about the “Economic Freedom Zones” that the Kentucky senator has pushed.”…..03795.html

    1. Are they sure they want to subscribe to Paul’s newsletter?

  14. What’s the linky for that site that streams FBN? Thx

      1. Hmmm…it’s still boffering or whatever they call it. Is it just me?

        1. Me too, just the spinny thing.

      2. Uh oh. What shall we do if this link doesn’t work tonight? I predict lots of drunken shouting in this thread in forty-five minutes.

        1. “Look at Kennedy’s earrings!”

          “Those clowns in Congress, am I right?”

        2. There may also be weeping and gnashing of teeth. And additional viewings of the zero-g Kate Upton boobalage.

        3. That’s a given, even if we are watching it.

          1. I thought of that right after hitting submit. Though I imagine it will be worse with no stream, given the general reactions to the call-in live stream aftershow debacle.

        4. Isn’t drunken shouting the norm?

        5. I’ve found that my cable provider has online links to channels, a la


          I’d guess most people can get the same from theirs…

  15. Dude that makes no sense at all man. None.

    1. Looks like anonbot has a working stream. Fuck you anonbot. Also, my sister’s friend’s second cousin’s aunt was out of work for 27 months, but bought a Ferrari with her last month’s paycheck from some other site, after working only 432 hours.

    2. OK, contender for hate right here.

  16. This thread is awful. Allow me to partially redeem it

    1. Uncle Sam in the one pic is too fat for gay sarcasmic.

    2. So…. Serious, you score a second date with Disney girl?

      1. Oh she dumped me. Fourth time out she said she liked me BUT she felt that, having recently moved to area for the Disney job and with her freelance editing business getting bigger, she didn’t have time for a relationship and would rather prioritize her career.

        Not sure if I buy it but her behavior after dates always puzzled me so I don’t know.

        1. Doesn’t sound like she’s prioritizing a relationship. Too bad for her. Potentially old and lonely sucks according to my single, 40 year old sister-in-law.

          You’re a young man – plenty of fish in the sea. 🙂

          1. Also, she could be a lesbian. NTTATWWT.

            1. Ha, that thought did occur to me initially with that pixie cut she rocks.

              But nah, I’m pretty sure we would have gone all the way if her roommate had not come home that night I made her dinner.

              But as you said, I’m much too young to get hung up about this sort of thing so I’m just going to shake it off and move on.

              1. This, as most things, can be turned to your advantage.

                Don’t put any pressure on this chick for a relationship. Just keep asking her out from time to time and showing her a good time. Be aware of her subtle hints and she will tell you when she;s ready to hit the sack.

                And when that happens don’t suddenly get clingy. Maintain your emotional distance and I predict she will begin to move closer to you emotionally.

                Just remember to never put emotional pressure on her. Always let her make the emotional move first. Let her come to you.

                That’s if you care about this chick enough to do that. It’s also important, very much so, that you continue to date other women during this courtship and subtly make sure she knows it.

        2. Not wishing anything on anybody – but sounds like my kid sister a few decades back.

          She put her career first and did well. Now in the top of her field and living in Manhattan. However, she quietly regrets never being married and childless at 50.

    3. The photog is the best looking girl in the pics.

    1. Except those of us who have nothing to watch. =(

      1. Guess you’ll just have to drink.

        1. It might make putting together this outline easier, so…yeah, maybe I will.

      2. Do you normally watch by streaming online?

          1. Myself as well. Like I can afford a tv, pshaw.

      3. At this point isn’t it just one colostomy supplies commercial from the end anyway?

      4. The spinning wheel represents both Kennedy’s earrings *and* the eternal recurrence of the fundamental questions of liberty which…oh, heck with it.

    2. I brought Guinness.

      1. I’ve got Leinenkugel Orange Shandy. Very refreshing.

          1. That’s right! Go spirits or go home!

            1. Or go home AND go spirits.

              Unfortunately for me (on the other side of the globe) it’s Saturday morning here and I’m watching the kids. Which means… hm… where’s that bottle of 1800 Anejo??

              1. Saturday morning? Holy hell, where are you? Asia?

                  1. Very cool. Hope you’re enjoying the experience.

                    1. Jeez, it’s been 20+ years now. Now it’s just home.

                    2. So, I really hope you’re enjoying it.

                    3. Hard to find real international work in the US so it’s a good location for a polyglot engineer with an MBA.

                      Fun nightlife scene too.

                1. He’s in the land of the rising sun, if memory serves correct.

          2. I’m drinking Chocolate Vodka rocks.

            Getting in touch with my feminine side.

            1. There’s such a thing as chocolate vodka?

              What’s next? a high tech mixture of orgasms and shoe shopping? Be still my heart.

              1. That explains it. I used to have a GF with whom I/we would bounce out of the hotel – late morning – and go directly for shoe shopping in Ginza.

              2. I’m thinking about going for a pedicure at the spa.

                1. While you’re there, don’t forget the Brazilian.

            2. Jebus, I just saw this…

              All respect gone man. Flavored vodka?!? how could you?!

              1. Um…er…a…it’s my first time…I don’t really like it.

                How bout them Broncos?

                1. The worst booze I ever had was honey vodka.

                  And that’s counting shit like bum wines, Maddog 20/20, 40’s of malt beverage, wild irish rose.

                  1. Zima — because zhit happens.

            3. I’m a chocoholic, and I’ve never heard of such sorcery.

                1. It’s actually not bad in a desserty kinda way.

          3. Fat Barrel cabernet sauvignon/shiraz.

            I’m actually watching the Olympics, though.

          4. Gin! And Sweet Vermouth! And Campari!

            Mixed up together in equal parts, on the rocls.

          5. Not a bad idea, but my father forbids hard liquor in the house. Doesn’t trust my 16 year old youngest sister, I suspect.

        1. I like Leinenkugel’s lemon shandy, but it’s more of a summertime brew for me.

        2. Leinenkugel is the worst beer in the history of beer, at least in this multiverse.

          1. Even the vanilla porter? Canoe Paddler?

            Have ye no taste buds?!

            1. I tried it a couple of times, when I lived back in flyover country. The one I tried was some sort of supposedly wheat type beer with spices. It tasted like someone took a cheap beer and poured Gatorade in it. Truly the most awful shit I have ever drank. I didn’t even consider it to be beer.

          2. Leinenkugel Nati-light is the worst beer in the history of beer, at least in this multiverse.

            But Guinness is like chocolate milk for grown-ups.

      2. Black coffee. I already had my two glasses of wine for the evening.

  17. We don’t hate A-Rod because of the ‘roids, Kennedy.

  18. Kennedy’s hoops are on drugs. How the hell else did they get so big?!

  19. Dapper? Dashing? Not with a button down collar.

    1. Welch should be killed just for that tie alone.

  20. Turtlenecks

    1. Tactileneck.

      1. This show is just babytown frolics.

        1. Kennedy is like the Pele of Monopolizing Discussions.

    2. GILMORE|2.21.14 @ 9:01PM|#

      OK, you’re Blackwell, aren’t you?

  21. Obama tells the truth about Obamacare (through the use of editing tricks)

  22. Those poor people probably think they’re in the middle of a bad trip.

  23. And that last guy impregnated Kennedy during that segment.

  24. Ok, I guess there’s been no significant cease-fire signed in the Endless War between Matt’s shirt and tie.

    Silver on pink. hmmm. Never *thought* of that? NEITHER HAS ANYONE MATT.

    Also, just ditch the 3 button suit. Its 2014, not 1998 matt. Let the 90s go. Let them go.

  25. You bring in a doctor with dreadlocks to defend teh ganja?

  26. I’m so fucking high I see stars in the Dr’s Dreadlocks. like floating around his head. Its like terminal dandruff.

    1. I get that a lot from the flag background.

  27. So this show is advocating banning all drugs?

  28. The public is ignorant about drugs? Say it ain’t so!

    1. Ig’nint. The word is ig’nint.

    2. I was hoping he would switch from “ignorance” to “propaganda”.

      But he’s a good advocate for decrim, it sure seems like.

  29. Given polling showing the usage of pot, I doubt most people are ignorant of the effects of drugs.

  30. PEDs aren’t just for jocks? Talk show hosts and panelists are on… THE DRUGS!

  31. Ok, they really need to hacking into my winamp playlist for their intro/outro music selections.

  32. Isn’t Remington or someone leaving (or at least moving assets out of) new New York due to the poor political/business climate?

  33. Are these Siemens commercials so to make me want to buy a Siemens SCADA system or something?

  34. I’m glad this conversation about drugs is so scattershot, incoherent, utterly lacking in lucidity or sense of direction, and frenetically moderated by a woman who seems like she’s grinding her teeth in desperation to interrupt someone.

  35. This is, like, the worst Friday ever now.

  36. Also, Curtis Mayfield? +1 apropos points. White Lines must be played now. And Peter Tosh.

  37. As an undergraduate, I was all about the nootropics. Anyone else? Still pop piracetam.

    1. I don’t even know what you’re talking about. And I DEALT DRUGS.

      Reminds me of this =

      1. Nootropics are smart drugs. Piracetam’s off-label uses are memory and attention enhancement. You can’t get it in the States, but it’s over the counter in Europe. Back then I did a regime of DHEA, Choline, ginko, piracetam, and vassopresin.

        1. You can get it as a supplement now.

            1. Cool. Thanks for the heads up!

        2. “Heroic Mulatto|2.21.14 @ 9:30PM|#

          Nootropics are smart drugs.”

          well, from what I can tell, much of America is desperately under prescribed

          Shrike? take like 1000 of these. And never come back.

    2. I’ve never tried them, but they’re starting to pop up in the supplement world. Which I don’t really fuck with (the few preworkouts I’ve tried are straight up crack), but I’m always curious about the current drugs.

      1. Interesting, but I would research the company before using it because you really want the best purity, which as you know, can be sketchy in the supplement biz. But I see a lot of stuff I like in it, especially the acetyl l-carnitine, which I used to get from GNC. Jesus, I can’t believe it was 20 years ago.

        1. The only way not to get gouged on this shit is to buy your own raw materials and mix it yourself. But I never fuck with supplements for a reason. Besides, if I were going to go to the dark side, I wouldn’t waste my time on any bullshit legal-for-now prohormone, I’d just buy Dianabol from some shady Thai internet pharmacy.

          1. Are you really that far from Mexico?

            1. I’m looking across a frozen lake at it. Wait. Mexico’s the cold one with poutine, right?

  38. First Person Defender- A reality show where CCW holders fight in mock combat:

  39. We praise people for shaving and putting on a shirt and tie when going on national television.

  40. Bassoon? OBOE, you philistine!

  41. This fellow seems exceedingly chill.

  42. So the show is advocating Ludditism.

  43. I really can’t follow this shit at all. Limits? Mere mortals? Can we just play Dark Side and talk about our feelings now?

  44. What? Has this guy no idea how babies are made?

    1. Yeah, he’s like, “Hey, no big deal, its *just your nuts*”

      Cause they don’t DO ANYTHING, right?

    2. Doesn’t it involve getting hit by a bus?

  45. Uh, I saw that a Ben Affleck after school special and roid rage is a real thing.

    1. Tell us more about your imaginary friend, “Ben”, Fist

    2. The Voyage of the Mimi was dope.

      1. I fucking loved that show!

        Nobody else seems to remember it.

        1. My school had the Apple IIe software that went along with the show. I never got enough time to really finish the game.

        2. I was required to watch that. I still remember the hypothermia scene…

  46. Again, Kmele with the lapel pin things…


  47. “you guys are the only people who called me”
    – And look, he even put on a sweatshirt for the show! Really takes The Independents *seriously*

  48. Drug crazes, you say?

    I hear kids these days are cheesing.

  49. Italians are advertising now?

    1. WOPs up? How’s your dago?

  50. Here’s something to ponder: if drugs can cure mental illness, why has the rate of mental illness been going up for 50 years?

    1. I don’t think anyone says drugs cure mental illness. They are to treat the symptoms. It would be great if they could cure, but we’re nowhere near that yet.

    2. There are legal benefits to being diagnosed today, especially in employment law. The rate is statistically meaningless.

  51. What, when did I start having commercials on the livestream!? Basic talk and the Americans.

  52. When are we finally going to get drug that gives us X-Men superpowers?

    1. Umm, nobody wanted to tell you but we’ve all been taking it and you weren’t approved…

      1. What’s your power? Gaydar?

        1. If only. I’m sure I’ve mentioned that I have terrible gaydar before, no?

          That or I’m just too timid to trust my instincts. The end result is the same.

          1. I’ve only hit on one lesbian before, and that was a coworker. But in my defense she was pretty hot and very femme (so is her girlfriend).

            We became good friends. But I understand the equation is different on the other side there.

            1. I checked out a lesbian when I was at a bar once. I wasn’t wearing my glasses and she was a cute, although kinda boyish, guy.

            2. Grand Moff Serious Man|2.21.14 @ 9:39PM|#

              I’ve only hit on one lesbian before”


              Think of it this way = its sort of a no-lose proposition…. You get her to ‘switch sides’ for a spell? VICTORY! She tells you she *doesn’t like MEN*? Hey = its not *you*! TIE.

              also, if sex is off the table, often we end up having a really fun time hanging out anyway. until they get drunk and surly. I have noticed a trend = lesbians? get DRUNK. then pick fights.

              1. Except jesse is gay. So not a win for him to seduce a chick. Unless I’m really misunderstanding the “I like guys” paradigm here. It’s possible.

    2. Dude, I mentioned piracetam upthread. Guess you need some nootropics.

      1. I’ll one up you: phenylpiracetam!!!!

        1. Positive cognitive effects, plus it protects against alcohol damage!

  53. “I was going to smoke the marijuana like a cigarette.”

    1. She was living in a single room with three other individuals. One of them was a male and the other two, well, the other two were females. God only know what they were up to in there. And furthermore Susan, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to learn that all four of them habitually smoke marijuana cigarettes…


  54. Whippits? no mention? All kids know nitris.

    1. Poppers are still kind of legal, but I guess that’s not a kids thing.

      1. It is still popular in *certain* circles.

      2. Isn’t that what our dear friend Terry Michael says is one of the true factor for developing AIDS, as opposed to HIV?

        1. Indeed it is.

          A friend works as a chemist and when she was given a tour of the labs at her current job her very Republican boss (who I’ve met and is hilarious) walked by a room with solvents and said “That big jug over there is amyl nitrate…ask your gay friends about it.”

          1. HIV denialists are scum. Well, maybe 25 percent are just scared and grasping for something, like people who try acupuncture to cure their cancer, but the other 75….

            1. I find them really confusing. It seems like such a bizarre position to take.

              1. Some people really get off on playing intellectual marytr.

                  1. Thabo Mbeki was a particularly scary combination of political power and scientific retardation.

  55. I don’t think it’s right to laugh about face eating. Just see how funny you think it is when the zombie apocalypse happens.

  56. Absinthe?

    God I fucking love absinthe.

    It was banned in France like 2 or 3 days after Germany declared WWI.

  57. Kmele’s like “Krokodil? why would we need that when I can get perfectly good heroin from Bernie MaxSmith!?”

  58. with bodybuilder-turned filmmaker Chris Bell, director of Bigger, Stronger, Faster*.

    Everyone should watch that movie. And look, his little brother is almost as strong as dunphy.

    1. I always assumed in any bodybuilding doc that I’m going to be forced to see a prolapsed rectum or two.

      1. Not rectums, arms.

        1. Rectum?!? Damn near killed ’em!

      1. No complaints here. The olympic lifts are fun. I should enter a meet sometime.

  59. My favorite drug? The brown acid.

  60. Hey look, a drug commercial!

    1. thankyouthankyouthankyou

  61. Geriatric profanity disorder.

  62. Best prescription drug side effect: Vivid dreams. I want that capsuled and sold over-the-counter.

  63. Have we gotten halfway through a show about ‘Drugs’ and no one has even mentioned that millions of people now buy weed in a *store*?

    1. There was that McDonalds in Pittsburgh that sold heroin in the drive-thru…

      1. you know what I mean. They should have a whole episode just on weed. hopefully mentioning that while middle-class white people in some states can now buy it hassle free, they still arrest about 100,000 minority kids in NYC every year for it. Yet progressives seem to think that yapping about minimum wage for fast food workers is the more pressing national issue.

        honestly = the number of people jailed for weed in the US? its astronomical. yet there are plenty of people who act like ‘its no big deal’ anymore. I find this whole issue infuriating on how they focus on silly shit like ‘Driving while High? DANGEROUS?’, while still sending people to jail for possession.

        1. ^^ Welch: run with that first paragraph.

  64. Is that guy like…. special?

    1. Didn’t you go to public school? We are all SPECIAL and UNIQUE…just like everyone else…

  65. The hobbits were constipated like you wouldn’t believe. Read between the lines.

  66. Just to clarify, the winner of this game gets all the drugs mentioned, right?

  67. Ya’know, I wouldn’t mind seeing occasional pictures of the blue libertarian on H&R.

  68. They really seem to focus on the *negative* side-effects.

    What about “make you awesome?”

  69. Kennedy read “libertarian” as “librarian”

  70. Kmele, what do you mean you people?

    1. Honkophobe!

  71. I liked this guy better the first time I saw him when he was Ian Holm.

  72. I call bullshit. I’ve take Adderall most of my adult life, and it has had no negative effect.

    1. The predisposition to addiction existed before any of these kids started taking meds.

    2. Are you sure?

      1. Well, it has gotten in the way of sleeping with women who aren’t my wife…

    3. Fuck this guy. He’s just a drug warrior in sheep’s clothing,

    4. He’s correct that drug’s effects on children’s brains are different than adults. Take for example the different effects of anti-depressants on children’s and teens as compared to adult brains (25 and up, really).

      1. That may be true. I didn’t start until I was 17 and had a pretty serious head injury.

  73. The doctor’s tie is on Krokodil.

  74. Meanwhile, the number of kids prescribed HDAD drugs is at an all time high, and now they’ve decided its bad.

    I don’t think its kids brains that are fucked.

  75. Kennedy = “Well I guess we should save the children then! Ok, Next segment”

  76. Personally, I think ADD and ADHD are a farce, and children need to learn self control. Does anyone have any thoughts in this?

    1. It’s real. Very over diagnosed, though, probably by a factor of 10.

      1. agreed

      2. That would make sense. It (over-diagnosis) functions like a market distortion.

        1. It’s not necessarily the access to CII meds that distorts. The unlimited time on the standardized tests really skews the market, IMO.

        2. Schools get more money from the gov when they have children with medical/behavioral problems.

          That’s a driving factor to over diagnosing.

    2. I dunno. My step-dad is now 73, and for all the time I’ve known him, he’s been the textbook definition of adult ADHD. He’s incredibly disciplined though, at his age, he works 2 part-time retirement jobs. In part, that’s due to his ADHD in that sitting at home doing nothing is hell to him. He needs to be mentally engaged all the time.

      1. I have an aunt in her 60s who’s the same way. She trained herself to hyperfocus and is crazy productive. She found a job where she could be personable, always on the go and accomplish the mundane aspects of her job in intense, relatively short bursts.

      2. That’s a pretty strong indicator. I’ve had 2 jobs for the last 12 years, and it has served me pretty well…

    3. Sit down and study!

  77. “What’s your favorite drug?”
    “You a cop?”

  78. Pills shoulda played the original Bo Diddley version

  79. Fun fact: during the filming of today’s street interviews Kennedy received 4 different tips on how to score drugs.

  80. Kennedy was caught admiring herself.

    1. Dido. It was accentuated when I heard her put words in Robert Sarvis’s mouth during the last VA exec. race.

  81. Alcohol is a beverage

    1. and a damn delicious one at that.

      1. Especially the chocolate flavored ones.

        1. Wut?

          1. he’s just trying to make me sick.

            1. Okay, switching to unflavored bourbon.

              1. tips glass cheers.

                I told Mrs. Gin this one was the last, but bourbon sounds *really good*

              2. Should I break out the “birthday cake” vodka that someone got me and I can’t stand, just for spite’s sake?

                1. Hey, if you want to hurt yourself, it’s not like I have to drink it.

  82. heh.. Kennedy can’t say “analyst” without giggling.


  83. Pot is a gateway to bank robbery. You heard her.

  84. Let Carl Hart talk!!!!1!!


    1. Why so Loosey Goosey?!?!

    2. Caps, bold and italics…

      Shouldn’t you be saving at least one of those for Nicole, Epi or Hitler?

      1. Lis is FAR worse than Hitler.

  86. Lis isn’t going to get the difference between prohibition and the crime it fosters.

  87. The war on drugs is working! People using or selling drugs are in prison!

  88. Milk is a gateway to strong bones.

    1. Milk contains IGF-1. OH NOES DRUGZZZ

  89. It’s like the warden who said none of his death-row prisoners were deterred by the death penalty.


    1. I just know.

  91. She just refuted all those pro-DUI advocates!

  92. Holy shit I just suggested that stupid people talk about ‘getting high and driving’….

    then FUCK, this is the only comment that gets made when they talk about weed…?

  93. Lady Lawyer: I DON’T NEED YOUR ‘FACTS’!

    1. She was a prosecutor, after all.

      I regret not getting questioned Tuesday when I served jury duty. The judge and prosecutor both asked if anyone had any religious or political beliefs that would prevent them from following the law.

      I’m told a look of panic overtakes a judge and prosecutor’s face if a juror mentions the N-word.

      1. I think if you pronounce it as “Nullifya” as opposed to “Nullifier”, then it’s ok.

  94. With him on the other side of the table, I didn’t really realize it.

    Those dreads are epic. They’re tied up behind his head. Those dreads are huge. Kennedy would fit in them.

    This guy is awesome. Have him on more.

    1. He’s doing some pretty great research. My SIL was his research assistant before she went to med school. They actually got meth from the DEA to give to their test subjects….

  95. Hart doesn’t get it. You don’t get to talk too long on any subject when you’re on The Independents.

  96. And Dr I-and-I doesn’t really understand statistics. That should really convince the audience.

    1. Yeah, the reason you have a lot of black criminals, IMHO, is that there are a lot of fatherless young black guys – control for the effects of fatherlessness, and the racial disparities are very much mitigated.

  97. This thread is getting way too many posts. I don’t even think that it can be considered late nite links, because:

    1. It isn’t the last posted of the night, there is one above this.

    2. It’s not about The Independents.

    This is a total breach of protocol, you heretics and blasphemers.

    1. To be fair Welch posted this early and in the beginning Buttplug was shitting over the thread.

  98. 2/3 of the Independents are rather insufferable, and the final third is Keeping It Kmele.

  99. Oh god… they played “G-Love and Special Sauce”

    I blame Matt

  100. This commercial was a dramatization? You mean Phazyme isn’t really a tiny purple mace swinging around in your stomach acids?

  101. Birds who live in glass houses…

  102. Keeping it Kmele? Foster is apparently the Andy Rooney of his generation.

    1. You know what really grinds my gears? Lou Dobbs.

  103. Gee, I’m glad the mentioned the drug war in the last 3 minutes of the show.


  104. There isn’t an after-show then, is there?

  105. AHHH!DOBBS!

  106. Don’t even get me started on the FDA. I’ve actually testified in front of an FDA Advisory Committee on behalf of what should be a terrific new medication. You really would be stunned at how unintelligent and close-minded the people on that committee were.

    1. This would be very interesting to hear more about. Doesn’t necessarily have to be now, and certainly understand privacy issues associated with such. IIRC, the March or Feb issue has a cover on (as Welch just said) 21st century medicine with 20th century regulations, and articles related to that.

      Articles on testifying to FDA panels would be very interesting (And horrifying, I’m sure).

      1. Along the lines of 20th century regs in the 21st century — telemedicine via videoconferencing or similar techniques is a great solution for getting specialists to different locations that can’t justify paying someone full-time. But the regs make every doc who sees a patient at a hospital, even if by remote, has to not only be licensed in that state, but also a fully-credentialed member of the medical staff of that hospital. Credentialing requires a bushel-basket of paperwork and $200-$300 for every doc per year, plus each state’s license is a huge hurdle plus $800 every two years. So it essentially is preventing teams of remote docs from being able to help out at hospitals that might only need their services 5-10 times per month — who could be viable by having, say, 100 such hospitals under contract.

        So what’s happened in the last year? They’ve made the licensing and credentialing requirements even more stringent for each hospital. And this is not done to prevent competition as some licensing is — this is those nanny types who think we aren’t scrutinizing docs enough.

        1. Hah…

          Funny, enough, I was just listening to the Econtalk podcast on my way home this evening, and the topic (from earlier this week) was about how the banking sector grew with no competition between banks in the 50 states. Seems like the same thing might be at play. It was a very interesting listen, made me question some of the things behind federalism.

          The idea of teams that sell services to individual hospitals is excellent. And then they can do most things via video, and fly in when needed. Great promise there, and I can see where it falls apart on regulations.

        2. “each state’s license is a huge hurdle”

          My Father in Law is boarded in internal medicine and dermatology in MA, and he got a license in CA in case he ever wanted to retire out here. The subject of his boards? Breast Cancer!! How to treat it from start to finish.

          Sounds like a ridiculous amount of bullshit to me.

        3. Think $800 is cheap. Of course that doesn’t cover boards; it just covers the state license which guarantees that, um, you’ve paid.

          My wife was initially nervous about the whole telemedicine thing but she handles a TON of stuff over the phone for free. I don’t recall her having to get credientialled at every hospital -in fact I’m sure she wasn’t- but they may have all been in the same system she works for and so grandfathered.

          1. For free is the operative phrase.

  107. Look, Matt! A guy who knows how to *not* make a suit look retarded. Even though he’s a creepy old man who looks like he’s made of rubber.

    1. Gilmore,
      I wish you a ton of glow-in-the-dark Che T-shirts!

      1. They make those?? That’s *awesome*

    2. Ok, this one needs to make the Two-Minute Hate.

  108. “According to MSNBC writer Timothy Noah, the [unionization] vote [in Tennessee] failed because people who don’t want to join unions are racist:

    “”And the opposition I gather, through, portrayed this as a kind of northern invasion, a re-fighting of the Civil War. Apparently there are not a lot of, uh, black employees in this particular plant. And so, that kind of, uh, uh, uh, waving of the Confederate flag was an effective strategy.””

    1. The South has always been hostile territory for union organizing

      Unless he mention the “Union”, what the fuck is he talking about?

    2. Ah, crying racism. Is there ANY failed policy it doesn’t explain.

    3. Oh, and

      “The United Auto Workers on Friday challenged last week’s close vote by workers at a Volkswagen plant in Chattanooga, Tenn., that rejected the UAW’s bid to represent them.”…..n-22623130

      1. Yeah, and if it goes down again, they’ll challenge it again!

    4. people who don’t want to join unions are racist

      I told the story before, but hell, might as well repeat it. I had a job as vacation replacement on the line for a big-3 auto company during the summer between high school and college. UAW (stands for U-Ain’t-Workin).

      Thursday before I started, a guy got fired for being drunk at work (I want to say he was a hilo driver, forget exactly).

      I started on Monday. On Tuesday, he was back. UAW Foreman got him his job back.

      I used to tell this story, and people would doubt it. Well, they did it again.

      1. I had a line job in a factory during a summer off from college, similar situation. I tend to work really fast, I’m sort of an adrenaline junkie, it’s why I went into emergency medicine.

        Lunch break my first day, some of the bigger, meaner-looking guys confronted me and told me to slow the hell down, what was I trying to do, show them up? They weren’t smiling when they said it, more like implying my ass would be destroyed if I didn’t do what they said.

        I moved like molasses the rest of the summer and got along with all of them just fine.

        1. I was in a… boutique plant (low volume sports cars), and I was lucky, my partner at the station was happy to go as fast as I could. We threw torque wrenches back and forth across the car and such. That said, though, people at the *next* station were pissed at us for going so fast. They did a time study while I was there, tracked how long it took to do each job. We were fine, but other stations tried to dog it too much.

  109. Hah! Chrome seems to have shut off Lou Dobbs after the first 30 seconds. Once he said Benghazi, it started endless buffering. Google does know what I want.


    Via Welch’s Twitter: #TrueDetectiveSeason2

    1. M-O-O-N, that spells MOON!

      1. Okay, that’s fucking scary!

        1. apparently the snark wavelength is closely aligned. And you need to type faster.

          1. I sat there for a few minutes trying to come up with something. I almost went with a Deliverance reference which would have put me on the Fist wavelength.

            I maybe need a H&R vacation to regain my own identity.

    2. M-O-O-N

      That spells libertarian.

    3. It looks like Gillespie is about to be told to squeal like a pig.

    4. Nick looks like a puppy who got caught chewing on the table leg.

      Matt…I don’t even have words for whatever is going on there. He has, in the past week, basically managed to make my crush on him disappear.

      1. So who would play Nick and Matt in the Reason Movie?

        I think Mark Ruffalo is a solid choice for Nick based on looks, but who plays Welch?

        1. If Mark Ruffalo played Nick in a movie, my lady parts would be very, VERY confused. He’s terribly charming in a way Gillespie could never hope to be.

          Is there someone sufficiently adorkable to be Matt? Probably someone from the UK, for the pallor.

          1. Ellen Degeneres as Matt. We’re going for a whacky comedy anyway.

            1. I don’t think she’d agree with the subject matter. This doesn’t seem like it would be a high-paying enough project to convince her to do it.

          2. This guy as Matt Welch.

        2. Sting, as Feyd Rautha Harkonnen, as Matt Welch.

          That, or MATT DAMON!

          1. Why would you inflict MATT DAAAMON on us??

          1. Excellent choice, but we don’t have access to time travel.

            OR DO WE?

    5. God damnit. I close the tab and they’re still looking at me.

    6. “Matt Welch’s earliest days as Editor in Chief for Reason magazine were a particularly exciting time for everyone on staff, as the new Brain-Replacement procedure required by the Koch brothers for the leadership role was still considered highly experimental.

      “He won’t stop putting things in his mouth” former Editor Nick Gillespie explained, “but they say that will go away. We hope. He does this weird ‘air drumming’ thing too…”

      1. As if Nick didn’t teach Matt all of his ridiculous air drumming techniques…

  111. “NEW YORK ? Dr. Bernard N. Nathanson, an obstetrician who oversaw the performance of about 75,000 abortions before becoming a leading pro-life advocate and a convert to the Catholic faith, died at his home in New York Feb. 21 after a prolonged battle with cancer. He was 84….

    “After performing his last abortion in 1979 and declaring himself to be pro-life, Nathanson produced the 1985 film The Silent Scream, which shows sonogram images of a child in the womb shrinking from an abortionist’s instruments, and the documentary film Eclipse of Reason, which displays and explains various abortion procedures in graphic detail….

    “He often admitted that he and other abortion advocates in the 1960s lied about the number of women who died from illegal abortions at that time, inflating the figure from a few hundred to 10,000 to gain sympathy for their cause….

    “He noted, regretfully, “I am one of those who helped usher in this barbaric age.”

    “His pro-life witness could not easily be dismissed as one-sided propaganda since Nathanson had enjoyed such a high standing among abortion supporters as a co-founder of the National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws (now called NARAL ProChoice America), and as operator of what he called the nation’s busiest abortion business.”…..z2u1BIUAn3

    1. (omit ellipses between first and second paragraphs)

    2. This is awkward…he died in 2011 and one of the sites I’m following posted this as of historical interest. Bummer.

      Hopefully everyone is in bed by now, where they should be.

      1. Bed? It’s 8:40 here & I’m not four or ninety-four.

        1. Just this once, you should go to sleep so you can forget my error.


          1. I’ll go to sleep if you finish this study guide for my midterm on Thursday. Deal?

            1. Use my answer key:

              a, b, a, d, c, e, yes, no, no, Equador, Benzene, because it was there, Maria Teresa.

              1. As it’s a class on the Renaissance, you just earned me an F.

                You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!

                1. Leonardo, Donatello, Michelangelo, Rapahel.

                  Dun dun DUN DUN! TURTLE POWER!

                  1. I made this reference in class when we started discussing art. There were groans, but fuck everyone, TMNT was the absolute best.

                    Their little action figures are protecting all the Shakespeare on my bookshelf, though I think only one of them has any weaponry left.

                    1. One of the best essays I ever wrote in high school was on the Renaissance for AP Euro.

                      My teacher kept it and now uses it as an ideal example of how students should write.

                2. Who wrote De Re Metallica: (a) James Hetfield, (b) Georgius Agricola, (c) Danielle Steele

                  Did Henry VI have 8 wives, or did Henry VIII have 6 wives?

                  Who was more Magnificent, Lorenzo or Suleiman?

                3. kibby|2.21.14 @ 10:50PM|#
                  “As it’s a class on the Renaissance,…”

                  Florence, the Borgias and the Medicis. And banks.
                  Am I close?

                  1. We’re wrapping up Florence Tuesday — not nearly enough Medici for my taste. But after this test we’re moving north for Erasmus & his friends.

                    Very little mention of the Borgias, oddly. Mostly it’s been smaller movers & shakers who drove the cultural movement in different ways.

                    1. I hear St. Thomas More died this morning.

                    2. …I’m missing something. Or writing about Flavio Biondo has finally driven me mad.

                    3. I embarrassed myself with the Nathanson story, and I was dragging out the agony with the Thomas More joke.

                    4. Maybe you should go to bed.

                    5. But I don’t wanna!

                      Well, maybe I will, but not because you told me.

                    6. Lies, all of it. Scoot off to bed now!

                    7. Just say:

                      “It’s time for all the good little libertarians to go to bed.”

                    8. This would not work, as nobody here could be considered “good” in any context, from what I gather.

                    9. I’m neutral good.

                    10. I honestly can’t tell from the busts who’s who. But I knew Pompey from the triumph joke and I suspect Lawful Good is Cato?

                    11. Yup, Cato the Elder. It was driving me nuts that I knew the face, but couldn’t place it for a few minutes.

                    12. Wizards of the Coast says I’m chaotic neutral.

                    13. According to the quiz I just dug up online, I am, too. I’d imagine a lot of us here are.

                    14. Says I’m neutral.

                    15. I’m True Neutral. If I don’t survive, tell my wife hello.

      2. Let me prepare my defense

        -It didn’t happen

        -OK, mistakes were made

        -Shouldn’t you be drinking or something, not huddled in front of the computer nitpicking people?

      3. Did you have a handle before Eddy VH/Dutch version/Whatever ethnic version

        1. Joseph Ratzinger

          1. kthx, was just curious, couldn’t recall how long you’d been around.

            1. Not really Joseph Ratzinger, but once I ate some poisoned berries and posted as White Indian.

    3. Just for you Eddie, a picture of my soon to be 3rd born:

      1. That’s really a chestburster.

      2. I saw that but thought it would be creepy to like your wife’s photo….

        Anyway, that’s awesome. Congratulations! And since I’m not licensed by the state I’m incapable of looking at that photo, so is it a boy or a girl?

        1. 75 percent boy. The OBGYN said it was to soon to be sure. Not too soon to see the life insurance guy, though.

      3. Thank you and congratulations!

        1. I was just thinking that. This one is unplanned, and now my dream of a vacation home somewhere with skiing is gone forever.

          1. This one is unplanned

            And you’ve got two boys 5 and 2? Number 3 is going to hear that a lot growing up from his big brothers.

            1. Number 2 was supposed to be a girl, so he has that to deal with.

        1. Little vermin. (I mean the sqrlz)

  112. Guess it’s a slow news day for the Daily Fail, but here’s what the original Jennifer from ‘Back to the Future’ looks like today

    “It’s your kids wife Marty!”

    1. Yeah, well, I’ll show you pics of my wife at 23 and at 47. Better come to terms with it kiddo.

      1. This is where the thread went dark.

          1. It does, but I meant dark in the sense of “You’re going to get old. all of you will. And you’ll wind up insane and drunk on Reason on a friday night.” c.

            1. I’m not sure if that’s any sadder than being the age I am now & this being the highlight of my weekends. *shrugs*

              1. I’m younger than you and I”m still here, aren’t I? So that makes me sadder than you!

                1. Are we going to have a “whose life is more pathetic” contest? Because I will wipe the floor with you.

                  Wait, that’s not something to be proud of. Dammit!

                  1. Are we going to have a “whose life is more pathetic” contest? Because I will wipe the floor with you.

                    Nope, I’m not going to let it go that far:)

                    And you’re doing great stuff like higher ed, and finishing it — well done.

                2. Whoa, when did I step into the DNC pathetic life story off?

                  1. Yeah, uh, doing homework to Nine Inch Nails all day has not been nice to my self-esteem, evidently. Geez.

                    1. Well, if you need a laugh, listen to “Closer” but change the chorus in your mind to “I want to fuck you like a Manimal.”

                    2. That is the greatest suggestion ever, but I’ve already switched over to QotSA. Next time, though…

                    3. Well that is awesome, it’s all my favorite people! Actually, I’m not sure what it says about me that my favorites tend to be in the evil/chaotic area of the chart. Oops!

                    4. Makes sense, those are usually the fun ones. As long as you wouldn’t actually crucify 6000 slaves or name yourself emperor.

                    5. I might name myself Empress of my apartment, but the cats would likely take umbrage & rebel.

                      But it seems unlikely that I would execute 6000 slaves. Or any. This reminds me that I really need to finish reading that book on Crassus during spring break. I can’t stop laughing at how much he games the system to get what he wants.

                    6. You think Crassus was compensating for something? Although to be fair his final campaign against the Persians was likely motivated by the political need to one-up Caesar and Pompey.

                      Pompey in particular was a jerk that stole credit from Crassus for putting down Spartacus’ rebellion.

              2. It may be the highlight of mine, too. Or that may be the gin.

      2. I still have parents, so yeah, I’m aware of what over 20 years does to a person.

        Although in my mom’s defense she had six kids.

  113. Oh, Arizona!

    It’s going to be fucking awesome when a blind dude walks into a shawarma place in Phoenix and the devout Muslim owner tells him to leave because his seeing-eye dog is najis (ritually unclean) and the SoCons who sponsored the law now have to sputter to defend it while at the same not trying to not defend sharia.

    1. Numero uno, Governor Brewer is still considering the bill and is milking the will-she-or-won’t-she tension. She could still veto it.

      Numero two-o, assuming they’re anti-Muslim, a case like that will give them a chance to say that they’re for religious freedom for everyone, even the Muslims!

      Numero three-o, the bill makes the state RFRA stronger, but even without the bill a Muslim could claim rights under it. The issues the bill would settle is whether a corporation (even the moneymaking kind) has religious rights (the bill says yes) and whether you can invoke religious freedom if you’re sued by a private party (the bill says yes).

      1. And I had the impression that sharia was the state enforcing Islamic law on everyone, not exempting Muslims from non-Muslim laws.

        1. And I had the impression that sharia was the state enforcing Islamic law on everyone, not exempting Muslims from non-Muslim laws.

          Some from A and some from B. If you listen to their rhetoric, Islamists argue that the only valid and binding law upon Muslims, regardless of their residence, is sharia.

      2. assuming they’re anti-Muslim, a case like that will give them a chance to say that they’re for religious freedom for everyone, even the Muslims!

        That’s the point. It will be fun watching them speak as if the words leave a bitter aftertaste in their mouth as they leave.

        1. Could be.

          But OTOH they’ll be looking for cases not involving “right-wing Christian bigots” so they can tell the NYT reporter, “look, we’re protecting all sorts of religious minorities!”

      3. Seriously though, in that particular case, since we’re dealing with a blind guy with a seeing-eye dog, it’s Title III of the ADA. The Feds aren’t going to give a shit about Arizona law here.

        1. Good point, but there’s a federal RFRA.

    2. I have an idea. How about we give all property owners the ability to serve whom they please?

      1. That’s a given. I was just commenting on the silly culture war aspect of this particular affair.

        1. Oh, I expect that you can finds all sorts of silliness among the Arizona Republicans. But I hope even the dimmer ones would see the PR advantage of saying, “we’re protecting *everyone’s* religious freedom, even those weird Islamics.”

          1. Republicans never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. I have a feeling that the legislature who said “we’re protecting *everyone’s* religious freedom, even those weird Islamics” would receive a threatening midnight phone call from Peter King, for example.

            1. Those IRA jokes never get old!

    3. “I think anybody that owns a business can choose who they work with or who they don’t work with,” Brewer told CNN in Washington on Friday. “But I don’t know that it needs to be statutory. In my life and in my businesses, if I don’t want to do business or if I don’t want to deal with a particular company or person or whatever, I’m not interested. That’s America. That’s freedom.”

      In other news, Jan Brewer just awoke from a period of cryogenic sleep that began in 1963.

  114. Correlation is not causation, Madame Prosecutor.

  115. Peter Breggin was known as an Objectivist years ago, but now his media presence leads one to believe he’d favor restrictive drug laws, although he never comes out & says so.

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