Google Unhappy with NSA, Airlines to Become Gadget-Friendlier, NYC Nannies Harder on Tobacco: P.M. Links

• 

  Credit: Jetstar Airways / Foter.com / CC BY-NC-SA

  Google is very upset at the report that the National Security Agency has been tapping into data links from data centers in foreign countries.

• Pretty much everybody has finally agreed that the rules against using tech devices on take-off and landing on planes are a bunch of bunk, and they will finally be removed. Eventually. Internet connections and calls will still be verboten.
• The White House is sending aides to work with Senate Democrats to try to fix the whole Obamacare mess.
• Mayor Cory Booker of New Jersey is now Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.).
• A California judge has rejected a city's attempt to shut down a sriracha factory because of the smell.  
• New Yorkers will soon have to wait until 21 to legally buy tobacco products. To buy them illegally, well, I know this guy … .

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

The White House is sending aides to work with Senate Democrats to try to fix the whole Obamacare mess.

As far as I can tell, the only thing White House advisors advise is to tell voters to go fuck themselves. And maybe to threaten talking heads to fall in line or else.

[CE]

They're also good at explaining how the President was unaware of the previous screw-ups, whatever the latest screw-up, but will be all-knowing now to fix them promptly.

[The Other Kevin]

Didn't you know the problems so far are all due to messaging?

[PapayaSF]

This is going to be a schadenfreude festival for months. They've got the website to fix, a bear in and of itself. I doubt they'll have it fixed by the end of November, as they foolishly promised.

Then there are all the dropped plans, and the full exposure of the "If you like it, you can keep it" lie. That's going to resonate like "Read my lips: No new taxes" did. There's no way to "fix" that without undoing a huge part of Obamacare.

Then there's the rate shocks. Again, no way to fix that without undoing the law.

Coming up, we have people discovering that they can't keep their doctors, or even find one who will take them. This applies to all those new Medicaid enrollees as well. Ooops!

Then, the penaltax kicks in next year.

Plus, the inevitable stories of identity theft, criminal "navigators," millions of dollars wasted or stolen.

And of course, the excuse-making and back-pedaling from all the Democrats running for election next year.

Get your popcorn.

[Plopper]

I'm shivering with excitement.

[Derpetologist]

Obama was kind enough to write a guest column explaining his techniques on my blog:

http://platedlizard.blogspot.c.....itics.html

[GILMORE]

"'The White House is sending aides to work with Senate Democrats to try to fix the whole Obamacare mess""

First order of business: "We need to find out who fucked this up!"

(i.e. who do we blame, guys?)

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

A California judge has rejected a city's attempt to shut down a sriracha factory because of the smell.

The litigants would cry but they've already been doing that.

[cavalier973]

But they were there first!

This is why we can't have nice things complexions

[prolefeed]

Unless my attempt to locate the plant on google maps is wrong, the closest part of Irwindale to the plant is 4 miles away from the plant, and the farthest part is 8 miles away.

If they granted standing to shut down the plant on an emergency basis, perhaps a million people live within an 8 mile radii and would be allowed to sue.

Seems like the judge made a decent call -- allow negotiations to continue about how best to mitigate the harm without panicking and shuttering the plant.

[VG Zaytsev]

How do you know residents doesn't refer to homeless people?

The whole thing always sounded like an attempted shakedown to me.

[DJF]

How about if the city offers to pay the company to move next to the judges house?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Google is very upset at the report that the National Security Agency has been tapping into data links from data centers in foreign countries.

And vows never to donate to the Obama campaign again.

[Paul.]

Why. It's all George Bush's fault.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

New Yorkers will soon have to wait until 21 to legally buy tobacco products. To buy them illegally, well, I know this guy ? .

Why not follow Obama's lead and make it 27?

[Francisco d Anconia]

Why not 57?

[gaijin]

too much lost tax revenue?

[Paul.]

What's a dollar of lost tax revenue when you can oppress at least one person?

[Metazoan]

This is a real dilemma for a statist...

[PD Scott]

No, you go ahead and restrict the age that tobacco can be sold at AND add a special tax to each pack that goes to a fund to compensate tobacco farmers, distributors, etc. for lost income.

[Rhywun]

AND add a special tax to each pack that goes to a fund to compensate tobacco farmers, distributors, etc. for lost income into the pockets of reliable party supporters.

FTFY

[Brandon]

The White House is sending aides to work with Senate Democrats to try to fix the whole Obamacare mess.

And they will finally get the right messaging!

[John]

But I thought it was his signature accomplishment? Isn't it the law? We can't change that.

[CE]

The debt ceiling law was the law too.

[Mainer2]

Yeah, I wonder how the whole, it's settled law, passed by congress, signed by the president, reviewed by the supreme court line can be squared with, we're working to fix it.

foolish consistency on my part i guess

[gaijin]

The White House is sending aides...<?i

You know who else had aides?

Jared

[AlexInCT]

Magic Johnson?

[The Other Kevin]

Should have read a little lower before commenting.

[jesse.in.mb]

Gizmodo: Google's Coming to the Rescue on HealthCare.gov

The "tech surge" that President Obama promised to fix the very broken HealthCare.gov portal just got a lot more tech-savvy. According to Bloomberg, companies like Google, Oracle and Red Hat are now swooping in to lead the recovery effort.

[Jordan]

Google is very upset at the report that the National Security Agency has been tapping into data links from data centers in foreign countries.

Riiiiight.

[Tonio]

Somebody wants something.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Information.

[Rich]

Information is POWER.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Who are you?

[Swiss Servator, Burn B??gg!]

The new number 2.

[Brett L]

Why? Why would they tie their credibility to this fucking trainwreck?

[Citizen Nothing]

Nice company you got there, Google. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it, would ya?

[Brett L]

If I were GOOG, I'd just repatriate that income, pay the taxes, and tell the Feds to go screw.

[jesse.in.mb]

I'd like to know what Red Hat would gain though.

[Brett L]

The NSA tells them about all the back doors in their flavor of Linux?

[Hillary's Clitdong]

Meh. A few Google employees have joined the Obamacare team.

[Paul.]

Hipsters don't vote Republican.

[Paul.]

Which reminds me...

I remember an interview with a (at the time) young technology hipster who worked for Microsoft back in the 90s. He was mulling over the contradiction that he loved and supported the Clinton administration, but had to contrast that with how much financial damage they had done to him...

[Brett L]

Smart people are really fucking stupid.

[Mainer2]

People who perceive themselves to be smarter than others....are really fucking stupid.

[jesse.in.mb]

Publicly it fluffs their good corporate citizen reputation, privately they'll parley this for influence, and internally they'll make sure that whatever could possibly be compatible with Google's information gathering systems will be.

[Brett L]

Thank God I never bought Google's "Don't be Evil" schtick, and Larry Ellison is obviously a super-villain.

[Tonio]

I think we have a winnah, folks.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

They want to be Top Men. The ultimate moral failing of Silicon Valley.

Go back to giving your customers what they want, unless the government is actually paying you for all that data Mr. Brin.

[Aresen]

Google's Coming to the Rescue on HealthCare.gov

The website will now display 3 billion possible options.

The first 5 million will be Viagra ads.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Mayor Cory Booker of New Jersey is now Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.).

Meanwhile Newark can't even appoint an interim mayor. Take the hint, Newark, and just close shop finally.

[GILMORE]

Oh, well he did such an awesome job in Newark, I think NJ should be excited and proud...

Crime = on a scale of 1-100 (where 100 is safest)... Newark ranks 9! Down from 5!

Education =
"average Newark High School"

500 students enter 9th grade, of which 350 of them are testing below the 6th grade level -- on average, at the 4th-5th grade level.

- Only half of these students make it to 10th grade

- By the time senior year starts, the class is down to only 150

- Of these students, 75% make it to the end of the year, but only 27 (18% of those who begin the year and 5.4% of those who started 9th grade) pass the High School Proficiency Assessment, an 8th-grade-level test.

And the state of NJ congratulates them on their *marked improvement*

(and mark zuckerberg gives them $100m and just goes, "really... your shit is fucked up...)

Newark Public Schools currently spends approximately $22,000 per student per year

Still, high school students will walk out of class (they were there??) to yell at the state for not blowing more cash on their system.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_new.....udget-cuts

Yeah... Newark. Their motto is "We Aint Camden!"

I tried looking up Newark's "Budget" but all I could find was a rental car agency

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Mayor Cory Booker of New Jersey is now Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.).

Footage from the swearing-in ceremony

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Wow. Michele Obama was there.

[Rhywun]

That link better be a Star Wars clip.

[Rhywun]

*Clicks link, hangs head in shame*

[BoscoH]

Anyone remember when Eric Schmidt was Level 5 pissed off about Chinese hackers hacking Google? What if the NSA was working with or masquerading as Chinese hackers? I'd put that about a 2 on my "far fetched" scale right now.

[gaijin]

So, maybe Snowden ends up in Germany?

Hans Christian Stroebele meets with Snowden in Russia

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

He's going to be in a fairy tale?

[C. Anacreon]

He's Hans Christian Stroebele! That's he!

/Danny Kaye

[Fist of Etiquette]

Merkel owes him.

[John]

I will re-post this because I find McArdle so loathsome. The media and the "experts" didn't lie or anything about people loosing their health insurance. It was just that they are smart and didn't realize how dumb everyone is.

We forget that when millions of people hear the president say that "if you like your insurance, you can keep it" and "premiums will fall by $2,500 for the average family," they don't listen with a wry smile. They don't write it off as understandable hyperbole from a president who is working to pass a great law with a few flaws

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/.....t-say.html

Go fuck yourself Megan, you ignorant lying hack.

[Brett L]

Not to worry, John. Obama is beating that earnest will to believe right out of the untermensch.

[C. Anacreon]

I hear what you are saying, and I have a wry smile.

[Invisible Finger]

I wonder if Mr and Mrs McArdle-Suderman fight about this stuff.

[John]

Doubtful. I think Suderman believes whatever McArdle tells him to.

[Restoras]

Cocktail Partayyz!

[John]

The greatest thing about that meme is that I am one of the few people on here who have ever been to such a thing.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Academic, government, or nonprofit?

[John]

Government and all of my neighbors work in liberal doo gooder jobs. None of them are journalists though. Journalists couldn't afford to live in my neighborhood.

[Killazontherun]

I use to do Georgetown in my youth when a friend worked at the Polish embassy. Eva, what a cutie, man did I learn a lot about the friend zone and what to avoid in that relationship. I've been to a few, and given the Eastern European make up, likely the more intellectually stimulating ones. The dullest actually tend to be book release parties.

[John]

I agree. I have been to a few that involve authors and journalists and journalists are boring as hell. They really are. Ron Bailey is an interesting guy to talk to. But he is one of the few I have met.

[Root Boy]

Girlfriend in college worked a job in DC one summer. Said everybody introduced them selves as "I'm so and so and I'm a lawyer"

We were engineering students btw. I did a summer job in DC among engineers, but never got invited to cocktail parties....should I have had a sad? I would have imagined shooting an M72 into their apartment if I had been in that situation.

[BuSab Agent]

I went to one once...seriously not kidding...I got very drunk and danced with the CNO. I don't remember his name but the Secretary of Defense at the time was Cheney (I didn't dance with him).

[Mike M.]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's a reason why Suderman and his wife are such great friends with loathsome creeps like Weigel and Yglesias.

You don't have to strain your brain too hard to figure out what the deal is.

[Firework Surprise]

So the administration said these things tongue in cheek? Count me among the dumb ones that didn't pick up on the sarcasm.

[#]

Suprisingly, I don't seem to remember the media treating "mission accomplished" or "Iraq will be faught on the cheap" as meerly being tongue and cheek hyperbole.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

They don't write it off as understandable hyperbole

Fuuuuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkkkkk yoooooooooouuuuuuuuu

[John]

That article makes me hate her so much, I hate Suderman for not strangling her in her sleep.

[PapayaSF]

John, I think you are off base here. She's trying to be even-handed and take a somewhat nuanced view of all this. She is not saying everyone but wonks are dumb.

[Nikki just says no]

Yeah, I don't get what the problem is. She's saying the wonks screwed the normals by being wonky assholes.

[ChrisO]

It'd be nice if she ascribed some motive to such an obvious failure.

[John]

No. She is saying the wonks meant well and just didn't understand how the normals think. That is just her covering up for the sorry fact that the wonks knew exactly what they were doing and were happy to help Obama lie to the country.

Their credibility should be shot right now. And McArcdle knows that this is a problem going forward. So she stands up and says "we didn't mean to do this and will do better next time." Fuck her. They meant to do this and should never be trusted again.

[Sidd Finch]

But she was one of the few pointing all the problems in the MSM. I'm having a hard time seeing how she's part of the problem.

[John]

She is after writing this article. The truth is that the media and the wonks lied because they supported Obama. But McArdle is elitist bitch who, although she disagrees with them on this, wants the wonks and media and other assorted top men to not lose their credibility with the country over this. So she is now engaging in excuse making hoping to get them off.

To hell with that.

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

Don't be a moron, John. When Hayek points out that the coordination problem wrecks planning even for honest and intelligent planners, he isn't defending them. His argument is absolutely devastating even without pointing out how repulsive the planners are personally. Don't interpret McArdle's lack of obvious antipathy for technocrats as affection.

[Root Boy]

Agree. I usually read McCardle as a total insider (grew up in NYC, Ivy Leaguer, etc) but one who points out the errors of the insiders. I think that's why she's moved around so much--probably pisses off too many team blue and team DC people.

BTW, Factcheck.org is saying we told you so, so it was all out there.

[jesse.in.mb]

Look at you all not dead. How've you been?

[Nikki just says no]

Not bad, not bad. The not-dead-ness means I still have to keep being enslaved though, so that part is kind of sucky.

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm going to assume from context that we're talking wage-slavery and not a D/s relationship?

[CE]

Are you a zombie now?

[BiMonSciFiCon]

I agree that John is misreading this. It seems to me she's just saying those who reside in "expertopia" need to do a better job of explaining the "agreed-upon" facts that aren't even worth talking about.

[Irish]

Yeah, I don't get what the problem is. She's saying the wonks screwed the normals by being wonky assholes.

The problem is that John has a bizarre McCardle fixation and will take any opportunity to tell us how much he hates her.

[GILMORE]

"'Nikki just says no|10.31.13 @ 4:50PM|#

Yeah, I don't get what the problem is

John has no "I beg to disagree". If he feels contradicted or perceives any intellectual-elitism (ITS EVERYWHERE!!), he hates you with the fire of a thousand supernovas.

Then he forgets about it and goes onto someone else. Today(?) it was P Brooks and Megan McArdle. It was me once long ago, and I was the worst of the worst of the scummiest of the lying scum and a shitty writer too and I could die for all he cared. It was funny.

[John]

How so? I don't see how she is saying anything but that. She is saying "they didn't lie, they just didn't realize everyone wasn't as smart as they are"

That is completely ridiculous. They spilled thousands of column inches on that bill. And no one ever got around to mentioning that one of the main pieces of rhetoric in support of it was a complete lie because they assumed everyone knew it was a lie?

Fuck Mcardle. Fuck that God damned lying insulting hack. She everyone in the beltway media lied their asses off about this bill and now want everyone to pretend they didn't and keep believing anything they say even though they have done nothing to deserve it.

[PapayaSF]

Well, some were lying, or at least cutting slack for their side's blather for the rubes, but many were just believing their team's partisan b.s. And as Sidd Finch said, she's one of the few in the MSM who's pointing out the problems.

She doesn't deserve to be in the same category as Krugman and Klein and Walsh. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[John]

She is not a monster. But she is still a hack and a concern troll for trying to put a brave face on this. She should be writing the truth about what liars these people are not making excuses for them.

[Swiss Servator, Burn B??gg!]

"Fuck that God damned lying insulting hack."

[Acosmist]

Megan's "nuanced" about every damn thing. Before she criticized Mao, she'd be all "now, I don't want it to seem like I'm being harsh..." until, by the end, you weren't sure whether she was being critical or not.

Just a terrible author.

[PapayaSF]

I like her, but I agree she can be a pussy-footing milquetoast at times. If she could trade about 20% of her writer's voice with Ann Coulter, they'd both be better.

[ChrisO]

In 2002 or thereabouts, I had some bloggers over to my house. Late at night, after more than a few drinks, we began discussing equity research reports. (Two of the bloggers were in finance, and I'd spent an unproductive summer at Merrill Lynch between my first and second years of business school.) We were discussing ... actually, I don't remember what we were discussing, but somehow, the topic of buy ratings came up.

Sounds like a doozy of a party, there, Megan.

Her "OMG we all-knowing experts just didn't communicate correctly to the plebes" defense is just pure liberal smug. Uncut smug.

[MP]

tl;dr

But I think you're misreading it. The point I derived was a quick scan is that the general public took Obama's plain language about "if you like your insurance, you can keep it" at face value. They weren't liberal elites who know that this was code for "well, at least for some of you that's true". It's the liberal elites with the wry smile. The rest of the general public took it at face value and now feels lied to.

And Megan is agreeing with that sentiment.

[ChrisO]

Maybe I did misread it. I'd still like to see such wonks called out more clearly on this.

[MP]

Megan is not known for her brevity.

[John]

It's the liberal elites with the wry smile. The rest of the general public took it at face value and now feels lied to.

No she is covering up for the elites of which she is a member. The elites knew it was a lie and knew exactly that it was intended to keep the middle class from revolting like they did against Hillarycare. They are all lying pieces of shit. But McCardle pretends that they didn't lie. They just didn't understand that everyone else automatically knew it was a lie like they did.

Bullshit. They knew exactly what everyone else thought and did nothing to debase them of it. Fuck them and fuck her.

[Sidd Finch]

The wonks, not the elites, knew it was a lie.

Washington elites are quite possibly the most innumerate of East coast elites, which places them high in the running for most innumerate worldwide.

[John]

They all knew it was a lie. And they all participated in spreading it because they were so convinced that they knew better.

If you believe McArdle, you might give any of them a break since they didn't really lie but just lived in a bubble. No thank you. They are all liars and no one who supported this bill should ever be trusted about anything again.

[gaijin]

Besides writing blogs and articles about other people, has Meghan McArdle actually done one thing in her life that would warrant anyone considering her an expert in something? Or is she confusing wonky with expert the way alot of people confuse digging iPhones with being into 'science'?

[John]

No she hasn't. And yes she is doing just that. None of those people she is calling an "expert" are experts on much of anything beyond smelling their own farts.

[GILMORE]

To your point - she's citing financial 'bloggers' as her inside line on sell-side finance.

Not actual sell side analysts. Who of course would lose their jobs for talking to wonks. (snif) which sometimes happens.

[Sidd Finch]

How many lefty wonks even have the platform to spread the word? Ezra Klein maybe, but he's stupid enough that he might've believed that bullshit.

AFAICT everyone who matters in Washington believes at least one of two things. You can lower the total health care costs by increasing usage. Saddam Hussein was more likely to build a Uranium bomb than I am to build a time machine with a broken alarm clock. Nobody in that godforsaken place should ever be trusted. We didn't need this monstrosity to learn that.

[John]

I don't recall Megan ever writing that people just forgot that the public didn't know intelligence was unreliable in the aftermath of Iraq.

Megan is a freaking lefty pretending to be a Libertarian to get a pay check.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Hey, it worked for Dave Weigel and Will Wilkinson.

[Sidd Finch]

Megan is a freaking lefty pretending to be a Libertarian to get a pay check.

worst plan ever

[General Butt Naked]

worst plan ever

I lol'd out loud at this.

As far as plans go, trying to cash in on the deecee policy wonk/analyst/journalist scene by going libertarian is probably as bad as it gets.

[PapayaSF]

I LOL'd as well.

This reminds me of a lefty I once met who thought Rush Limbaugh was just in it for the money and didn't believe what he said. Yeah, right, because in 1984, it was clear that conservative talk radio was the place to make millions. All you had to do was lie about your beliefs live on the radio for 15 hours a week, for years, and you'd be rich.

[Mainer2]

She uses the breaking eggs to make an omelette line, which I've always understand to be a criticism. You're doing damage to get to your goal. But she tosses it off like it's just a cute turn of phrase. Am I reading that right ?

[John]

She says

It's absolutely true that every policy wonk who was writing or speaking about the law in 2009 and 2010 understood that it would mean premiums going up for at least some people, many of whom would lose insurance that they would have preferred to keep. Who it would be depended a bit on how the law unfolded, of course, but at a minimum, young, healthy people who made more than $46,000 a year could expect to pay higher premiums for the same level of coverage. They had to; mathematically, it was not possible for coverage to expand and everyone's premiums to go down -- not unless you spent more in premium subsidies than the government could afford.

So they knew it was a lie. She admits as much. And

And the wonk community did not exactly hasten to disabuse them. The risks of higher premiums for some were acknowledged in an aside, but they were not headlined. Unless you were reading volumes of writing about health care very carefully indeed, it wasn't hard to miss that little detail -- at least one former Democratic staffer whose boss voted for the law seems to have been unaware that this was a possibility until her rates increased.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Who it would be depended a bit on how the law unfolded, of course, but at a minimum, young, healthy people who made more than $46,000 a year could expect to pay higher premiums for the same level of coverage. They had to; mathematically, it was not possible for coverage to expand and everyone's premiums to go down -- not unless you spent more in premium subsidies than the government could afford.

That's funny, I recall quite a few people, including family, who were parroting that "bend the cost curve" line about how providing more coverage to more people would somehow cost less because of preventative care and unicorns.

[PapayaSF]

It is true that even Saturday Night Live around that time wasn't really buying the hype. They had a line questioning how giving more coverage to more people could actually cost less.

[John]

But that is a bad thing because people will no longer believe the wonks

That gap matters -- not least because there's a strong risk that when the people outside Expertopia finally figure out what everyone knew all along, they will turn on the people who allowed all that tacit knowledge to stay tacit.

No Megan. They lied and no one should ever believe them again.

[Suthenboy]

"understandable hyperbole "

Wow. An admission of lying without calling it lying. They never argue in good faith, ever.

[John]

No they don't. But Megan wants us to believe them the next time they come to sell us some good idea.

[Root Boy]

There seems to be an infinite number of pseudonyms for lying going around about Obamacare and Obama now. It's frickin' amazing. Or not if you are jaded.

[PapayaSF]

Obama needs to call in Bill Clinton for advice. Perhaps they can parse this away. "It depends on your definition of 'keep'...."

[Night Elf Mohawk]

"[I]f you like your insurance, you can keep it" isn't hyperbole, it's a fucking lie.

They don't write it off as understandable hyperbole from a president who is working to pass a great law with a few flaws..

A few flaws? It's pining for the fjords.

Zod, I'd love some company to tell her that the warranty on her device was just hyperbole to make a sale, as then smile wryly at her.

[Emmerson Biggins]

Agree with you on this one John. Big ass lies don't call for nuanced explanation. They just need to be pointed out as big ass lies.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

This was the same line that Bill Maher used on CNN yesterday (someone posted the video here). The idea is that the Pres HAD to lie to get the ACA passed.

As an aside: I had great hopes for Bill Maher after his star turn in "Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death". I guess his career had nowhere to go but down after that.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Wife Finds Husbands Severed Head on Doorstep

[Brett L]

Jesus Christ. Its not like he had an own-goal at the World Cup.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Just sending a message for next year then.

[Brett L]

When I worked in Costa Rica, the husband of a Peruvian lady who I worked with was assassinated. Apparently he had worked in (its been a while, so I might have this wrong) the Suharto government, and pretty much everyone he worked with got assassinated. I mean, its possible he was a bad guy, but he was nice to me and his wife and kids seemed like too good of people to be raised by a sociopath.

tl;dr version: South Americans kill each other a lot.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Suharto? Wasn't he Indonesian?

[Apatheist ?_??]

Suharto was Indonesia. When we lived in Singapore we had people from Jakarta come and stay with us during the particularly violent parts of his downfall.

[PD Scott]

Do you mean Fujimori?

[Root Boy]

And Central Americans. I read once that the total death rate in El Salvador never dropped after the civil war there in the 80s-90s.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

California driver gets ticket for driving while wearing Google Glass

A California woman pulled over for allegedly speeding was cited for wearing Google Glass behind the wheel.

Cecelia Abadie of Temecula, Calif., posted the ticket to her Google+ page with the caption "A cop just stopped me and gave me a ticket for wearing Google Glass while driving!" Her post has received over 500 comments.

Abadie adds she was cited in San Diego for "driving with monitor visible to driver." The California Highway Patrol confirmed to The Los Angeles Times that the citation was issued for violating California Vehicle Code 27602
[...]
CHP spokesman Jake Sanchez tells the Times officers aren't specifically looking out for Google Glass, but anything that could distract drivers.

In a response to a comment added to her post, Abadie says the device was not in use while she was behind the wheel. "Glass was not on and I honestly don't use it much while driving but I do wear."

[Brandon]

Why wear it if you're not using it?

[robc]

Because its a pain to take off/put on all the time?

[Invisible Finger]

If a 19-year old tries to buy cigarettes, will he be tried as a juvenile or as an adult?

[Citizen Nothing]

An adult, of course. Just like the 18-year-olds who get cited for underage drinking get cited as adults.

[John]

I have sent boys younger than you to the chair son. I felt I owed it to them.

[Citizen Nothing]

Grows 'em up real quick-like.

[CE]

At least it makes 'em sit up straight. Briefly.

[Citizen Nothing]

Cinderella story.

[Invisible Finger]

All the responsibility with none of the rights.

Sounds like slavery to me.

[Winston]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Theses

Man a leftist opponent of war, centralized government and opposed cops, bureaucrats, soldiers and high government salaries turned out to be full of shit. Who would have guessed?

[db]

So I was in China last week (my third time visiting over there) and I have some observations:

1. Environmental regulations are for foreigners and the unconnected.

2. The pace of building "ghost cities" continues unabated, but many appear to be on hiatus, with empty glassless shells instead of empty finished buildings.

3. Said "ghost cities" are primarily built for soon-to-be-displaced farmers and other rural dwellers, who will be repurposed into factory labor by the government as it determines it needs to increase capacity to keep prices low for purposes of drawing and retaining international business.

4. They continue to randomly cancel domestic airline flights, probably due to unannounced military exercises or space launches.

5. There are even more cars now than just a couple of years ago.

6. Most of their air pollution.is.made up of PM1.0, not PM2.5, which is going to make it astoundingly difficult to clean up.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I can personally verify number 1.

[CE]

4. They continue to randomly cancel domestic airline flights, probably due to unannounced military exercises or space launches.

I'm guessing it has to do with the zombie outbreaks.

[Rhywun]

I was there 12 years ago and saw all of that - man, I can't imagine what I did see ramped up to 11.

[Rich]

Pretty much everybody has finally agreed that the rules against using tech devices on take-off and landing on planes are a bunch of bunk

However, if they could potentially possibly help save the life of just one child, aren't we obligated to keep those rules?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Talk about concern trolling

Why am I surprised? Well, there has been a push lately in conservative circles to get more women in leadership roles, but apparently the ordinary Republican voter hasn't gotten the message. They better start getting it, particularly if the GOP is going to continue its principled attacks on women's rights. It's one thing to have a core mission of getting rid of abortion and contraception. But these days, the optics of a bunch of grumpy old men trying to do so is even worse. If Republicans can at least scatter a few more women in brightly colored suits among the "grey-faced men with $2 haircuts" (thank you, Tina Fey), they will have to make liberals work a little harder and use more words to explain why the policies are misogynist. Right now, all liberals need to do is show some pictures and point.

So, Republican citizens, even if you don't like the idea of getting more women into leadership roles, it's a smart tactical move toward the long-term goal of terminating many women's basic rights. Why am I giving you this self-defeating advice? Because I know you're not really listening to me. I'm a woman.

I'm sure Marcotte would have a more positive opinion of the GOP if they ran more women.

[Citizen Nothing]

Marcotte needs to shut up and make me a sandwich.

[Killazontherun]

She sounds miserable, like she hasn't had a good fucking or felt the satisfaction of pleasing a man in a long, long time.

That's just the nature of feminism, and that is why it cause ovarian cancer.

[ChrisO]

Oh, I don't know about that.

There was a mini-scandal among the social justice harpies when it turned out that the lovely Ms. Marcotte got some sort of freebie assist from her well-connected boyfriend in getting her shit online.

Can't remember all the details, and frankly don't give a damn.

[Killazontherun]

Guys who use their connections to get pussy usually need that arrangement for a reason. If she had a thoroughly good fucking she would shut the hell up and feel more appreciative to the male half of the species. She sounds like she doesn't know what that feels like.

[Restoras]

And iron my shirts.

[grrizzly]

So, what did Marcotte think about Sarah Palin?

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I'd love to know what she thinks of Phyllis Schafly.

[CE]

2 dollar haircuts? Even Supercuts is 15 bucks around here.

[cavalier973]

Nothing says "terminate a woman's rights" like murdering her while she's still in the womb.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Five law professors attack proposed religious-freedom amendments to an Illinois SSM bill.* The profs use the usual arguments about how SSM is totally unrelated to "civil rights" laws, then they go on to explain how for-profit businesses should be compelled to recognize opposite-sex couples as married:

"These provisions would allow non - religious, commercial actors to refuse service, withhold employee benefits, and deny housing in situations that have little to do with the couple's marriage and that are years removed from the couple's wedding. Businesses, property owners, and individuals could treat same - sex couples differently than all other couples, even though Illinois' existing antidiscrimination law prohibits sexual orientation discrimination. They could do so after the couple has been married for a year, ten years, or fifty years. Even government officials sworn to uphold the law and treat all citizens as equals could refuse to serve them. In short, the proposal stamps a badge of inferiority on married same - sex couples that permits their exclusion wherever they go."

*Allegedly, the proposed amendment would also allow government officials to "discriminate" against SSM couples.

http://blogs.chicagotribune.co.....-sb-10.pdf

[John]

But gay marriage would never be used as a weapon in the culture war. Leftists really care about gay rights and didn't take up the cause of gay marriage because they knew it would allow them to make the practice of religion effectively illegal.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

For those of you who missed it, Tony thinks babies come from bus accidents.

[Invisible Finger]

Only from private bus accidents. Public bus accidents don't make babies.

[cavalier973]

So private bus accidents have selective advantage?

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Toronto Mayor ROB FORD

[Winston]

I have no reason to resign

You know what that means....

Amyway the Red Star will be happy.

[gaijin]

If smokes crack, shouldn't he be carrying around a few less pounds?

[Brett L]

People who take breaks to eat, ie 99% of crack smokers, are normal sized.

[gaijin]

I must be confusing crack with meth

[ChrisO]

He has a bright future on the Washington DC city council.

[C. Anacreon]

"The bitch set me up!"

[PD Scott]

"The bitch set me up, eh?"

[CE]

The White House is sending aides to work with Senate Democrats to try to fix the whole Obamacare mess.

Don't fix it, nix it.

[John]

The smart thing to do would be to delay all of t he mandates and the tax in such a way that everyone gets to keep their current plans until after the midterms.

But Obama is so dug in on this being the best thing ever that I am not sure he will do that. I think he might say fuck you and learn to like your new obamasuance.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Do male professors seek attention from female students?

Johnson said the professor-student power dynamic was to blame, more than gender. As a sometimes adjunct professor who most recently taught at San Diego City College, she said: "I've been in the position of professor as well as student and I think it's likely that had I the privileges, but not the (negative) experiences, I would have taken advantage of my power to sexualize my relationships with students without even recognizing what I was doing."

Allison Kimmich, executive director of the National Women's Studies Association, also pointed to power structures in response to a question about the Twitter thread.
"Men are overwhelmingly the majority of full professors by rank," she said, noting recent data from the National Center for Education Statistics. "So that means male faculty by definition have greater power and authority on campus by virtue of both rank and numbers."
She continued: "Does that mean every male faculty member abuses that authority (as the Twitter [thread] suggests)? Obviously not, but clearly there are structural issues at work in higher education that lend themselves to potential abuses of authority."

I question the validity of anything that uses Twitter to establish a trend.

[Brett L]

I'm insulted that she thinks all or even most male professors are straight.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I'm insulted that she thinks all or even most male professors are straight.

Huh? Were is that coming from? (Unless you went to art school)

[C. Anacreon]

Allison Kimmich needs to make me a sammich.

[CE]

Oh, I think the professor realizes what he or she is doing when that happens.

Note to self: get PhD

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Marcotte's newest bit of nonsense

So basically [The Daily Show] get a couple of men to roam around Mississippi and Alabama?which are rightfully considered the last two states in the country that will ever legalize gay marriage on their own?and found that people were nice to them, even though they did stuff like hold hands, kiss, and even have obnoxious public proposals. People ignored them or even applauded them. The idea, I guess, was to show that stereotypes about homophobic Southerners weren't fair[...]

The weirdest part is all they ended up proving, at best, is that people is Mississippi and Alabama are polite. Or even just that they don't want to start shit for no reason. Just because someone is a bigot doesn't mean they're on fire about it all the time, particularly if they have to deal with someone face-to-face. There are plenty of men out there who hate women with a burning passion, as the internet has amply demonstrated, but by their own Reddit confessions, they tend to keep a lid on it in public instead of screaming "CUNT!" at every woman who walks by. Racists tend to keep their lip buttoned when dealing with people of color, so much so that a lot of people end up getting a little anxious trying to figure out if the asshole is just an asshole or a racist asshole.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Observations:

1) White girl Marcotte seems to have a righteous pipeline into how racists, sexists, and homophobes think.

2) If bigotry is so benign that people can't even tell when it's happening, doesn't that imply that it isn't that big a problem?

3) Would there be any way to prove that someone is not a racist, sexist, and/or homophobe in Marcotte's world?

3a) Is there even any point in trying?

[Citizen Nothing]

4) She should shut up and make me a sandwich.

[mr lizard]

Ya she seems like a chick who ain't gettin the right flavor or volume for her daily dose. Women who are cannot possibly come up with this crap, even if offered a 1 mill salary and a pony.

[Restoras]

5) and iron my shirts

[PapayaSF]

The prog answer to #2 involves the amazing power of racism, which has a strength that leaps generations and centuries, and causes great suffering at a distance, like second-hand smoke. Alas, one of it's powers is that it can only be detected using certain kinds of statistical analysis.

[ChrisO]

I'm almost convinced that "Amanda Marcotte" is just a piece of performance art.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

My theory is that it started out as Ann Coulter trolling the feminist left and unintentionally became a runaway hit.

[C. Anacreon]

I'm almost convinced that "Amanda Marcotte" is just a piece of performance art.

Indeed, she probably doesn't even exist -- there's just some gal who pretends to be her in public appearances, and her column is written with hilarity by a group of performance artists.

Even her name is obviously a fraud -- you do realize, don't you, that
"Amanda Marcotte" is an anagram of "Madam Can't Orate"

[The Immaculate Trouser]

He's found the core of the conspiracy. Alert Karl Rove.

[cavalier973]

But we Southrons ARE bigots; we have this tendency to make stereotypical assumptions about broad swaths of the population, even when practical experience does not bear out our expectations.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

what you did there, etc etc

[Night Elf Mohawk]

The weirdest part is all they ended up proving, at best, is that people is Mississippi and Alabama are polite. Or even just that they don't want to start shit for no reason.

I guess she missed the video of when someone did that crap in Texas. They had a waitress (actress) go off on a gay couple (also actresses, but truly lesbians). The patrons went beyond being polite. They told the waitress to leave the couple alone, they went for the manager, and one guy wrote a long note supporting them. One guy was a dick. But I'm sure it was all a cover for how they all really hated the gay couple.

[PD Scott]

"The customers were obviously visiting from Austin, the one shining beacon of progressive thought in that backward, cowboy-hillbilly state." is what she would probably say.

[CE]

Having lived in red neck, supposedly racist Texas, and liberal, supposedly open-minded California, I can tell you that there is a lot more inter-race animosity in California. Just an anecdote, but the singular of data as they say.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Being polite and not starting shit are hallmarks of civilization. it is true tolerance. If a prog just assumes that people who disagree with them will just pick a fight and be nasty, he or she has said som3thing about himself o4 herself.

The daily show has done this sort of thing before, challenging their lefty audiences's assumptions.

[Boisfeuras]

Accepting someone else's existence, regardless of whether you personally agree with them or their choices, is the very definition of tolerance.

She is accusing tolerant people of thoughtcrime, and without even a shred of evidence.

[PapayaSF]

For many years the PC party line has been that "tolerance" is now actually a bad thing, because it's not full-throated acceptance.

[Rich]

The White House is sending aides to work with Senate Democrats to try to fix the whole Obamacare mess.

Further ensuring that *no one* will ever be held accountable.

[Ted S.]

Oh, no; they'll hold the Republicans accountable.

[Rich]

Good point.

*** leaves to make coffee ***

[Restoras]

Have Amanda make your coffee for you.

[neoteny]

I thought that I've read somewhere that "the most important task of economists is to tell government what it can't do" -- or words to that effect. I'm unable to find it on Google, though; so my question is:

Does anyone know who is the author of such or similar saying?

[BiMonSciFiCon]

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."

? Friedrich von Hayek

[CE]

We had a Constitution for that.

[GILMORE]

" "the most important task of economists is to tell government what it can't do" ....

And it ends like this

"... upon which government will them to shut the fuck up and make them a sandwich"

[#]

And side note. Can we please stop letting leftists, including our local variety, from getting away with calling it "single payer"?

Fighting their next attempt at it will require calling it out for what it is, nationalized or socialized.

[Mainer2]

Yeah, that one drives me crazy. Progs and statists just can not be straight with people.

And in a similar vein...when did a billy club become a "baton". That used to be a thing that cheerleaders twirled. I guess "baton strikes" are not as painful as getting beaten with a club.

[PD Scott]

"Gimme an F! Y! T! W! Go-o-o-o-o COPS!"

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Behold the tolerant Left: Melissa Joan Hart describes hate she received for supporting Romney

"I got called every name in the book," Hart revealed. "[People wrote] that they hope I die, and that they hope my children are gay, which is somehow supposed to be some sort of punishment. [...] The hate was really unbelievable just from that simple tweet. Just by saying I was voting."

Hart has never been shy about her political views, this despite the fact that she thinks there's a prejudice in Hollywood against conservatives.

"It is like a blacklist. It's a little scary," she told Fox News host Sean Hannity in an interview after the election last year. "And I just found out there's a Wikipedia page that says who backed Romney in the celebrity [world]. [...] It was unbelievable. I live in a country where I'm supposed to be able to have this freedom to choose who ever I want to vote for, whatever religion I want, and I feel like there are these limitations. It's not like it used to be."

[CE]

Clarissa explains it all, again.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

HuffPo comments:

KHAAANNN
1
633 Fans
Newsflash: Freedom of Speech does not include Freedom from Criticism.
I wonder if she can discriminate between people who disagree with her political choices, and outright hateful speech (of which I'm sure there was lots)?
I doubt it, as most right-wingers have a bad case of Martyr Syndrome and LOVE to "struggle and bleed as they hang on their cross" (props to Billy Joel.)

Projection.

DoylerDoyle JM
SUPER USER?1,084 Fans?What cheer, eh?
Her candidate she supported said that 47% of Americans do not take responsibility for themselves. Ms. Hart deserves harsh condemnation for supporting such hateful view.

If you don't agree with Obama, you're a terrible person.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

NOO!

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Comment:

Her candidate she supported said that 47% of Americans do not take responsibility for themselves. Ms. Hart deserves harsh condemnation for supporting such hateful view.

[JD the elder]

Never mind that leftists themselves will roll their eyes and say that just because they voted for Obama doesn't mean they agree with everything he says and does...

[CE]

There's no hate, just an observation (and mild exaggeration. Some of them wish they could be more responsible.

[John]

She grew up into quit the MILF.

[Brett L]

I'm the right age to find her hot at all of her stages without being creepy.

[John]

She was older when she was on that show than her character. She is 37. That means she was 20 in 1997 when that show was popular. So those of us who were not teenagers then, may have felt creepy finding her hot. But we really weren't. She was not even a teenager then.

[Apatheist ?_??]

Yes I was a preteen when that show was popular. I enjoyed it, but not for the plot or script.

[Killazontherun]

Funnily,

http://assets-s3.usmagazine.co.....-lg-03.jpg

they had to make the 42 year old Kelly Ripa appear older to pass for Kim Kardashian.

Kelly looks damn good as Miley --

http://www.usmagazine.com/cele.....3-20133110

[Bam!]

No one looks as good as Miley, not even Miley herself.

[Killazontherun]

Hey, I watched Facts of Life as a kid out of a crush for Molly Ringwald. We were born a day apart.

[Eduard van Haalen]

But im guessing you didnt confuse houston with the whole state of texas.

[mr lizard]

"Pretty much everybody has finally agreed that the rules against using tech devices on take-off and landing on planes are a bunch of bunk, and they will finally be removed. Eventually"

I know it's dumb and trivial, but I don't want to put down what I'm reading at the start of a flight. And I really don't want some upiddy stewardess getting in my face over a fucking stooooopid Dumbshit rule. I'm looking at you bitch, the one on the 7am US Airways flight from Vegas to Houston.... Yelling at me hungover is just not civil.

[CE]

the one on the 7am US Airways flight from Vegas to Houston.

That's your problem right there.

1. Never fly US Airways
2. Who leaves Vegas at 7AM?

[Ted S.]

3. Why fly to Houston?

[Death Rock and Skull]

Because its better than Dallas.

[Brett L]

Nice. (And true!)

[Apatheist ?_??]

Gotta make that round trip at least once a year because my inlaws live in Vegas. The 7am flights are usually quite a bit cheaper but still not worth it.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Because it hss its own governor according to molly ringwald.

[mr lizard]

Ya ya I know. It was after a bachelor party and the wedding was in Texas. So perhaps I was still drunk and smelled like vanilla stripper scent, and shame.

[Death Rock and Skull]

Just whip that shit out when they have to go restrain themselves. I have a digital camera in my hands for the entire duration of every flight.

[Death Rock and Skull]

Is it okay for me to use the Fitness Singles thing, even though I'm not in to exercising, although I look like someone who is?

[mr lizard]

If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin... Trust their playbook is written sand, and about as solid as a frog.... Keep it sticky out there

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Stossel accurately points out that women use medical services more than men; Salon takes exception to reality

Fox News' John Stossel thinks women should pay more for health insurance because "women go to the doctor much more often than men," possibly because "they're hypochondriacs," the Fox Business host posits.

"But, John, you're not paying attention," replied a sarcastic Steve Doocy. "This administration, this president wants to make everything fair. It's not fair if you pay less than she does ? And as a number of Republicans have made the argument, why should I pay for ? I'm in my 60s, why should I pay for your maternity coverage?"
[...]
Further, Stossel's argument that women should be charged more because they tend to utilize more preventative services is absurd. Preventative medicine is a good thing and saves money in the long run; rather than shame women for using their health insurance (which is, you know, the entire point of having health insurance), Stossel should be encouraging men to do the same. Instead, he applauds Doocy for neglecting his own health ? like a real man should!

Why are liberals so fixated on 'preventative medicine'? Is there any evidence to suggest that it saves money?

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Cargo-cult magic thinking phrase. Bend the cost curve! Nuance!

[Cytotoxic]

Nope and the few studies done indicates it is a waste of money. Reason had the link a while ago. Liberals like it because it can be used to rationalize the plans of TOP MEN.

If preventative medicine were such a bargain, then individuals can pay for it.

[Almanian!]

The evidence at my company is that it does not. Which is why HMO's have steadily fallen out of favor - "lowering longer term costs by spending money on preventive measures" hasn't....um....it hasn't...well.....worked.

[Gbob]

Well, it seems to me that if you accept the idea of a powerful state being better than individual choices, then you're more likely to accept the premise that people in authority (such as doctors) will be able fix everything.

[Sidd Finch]

That insurance companies, who presumably know more about this than everyone else combined, don't incentivize weekly doctor visits should be a clue.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Ooh, I know why! Because insurance corporations are all corporationy and they sit in their corporation building plotting ways to make people sick so they can turn them away and make money!

//leftard

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Not to people residing in "expertopia." (See the McArdle article discussed above.) It's a talking point, nothing more.

[a better weapon]

I've read enough NEJM and JAMA articles from my MHA program to know that preventative medicine is about the most costly kind of medicine.

I don't even know how the idea that it lowers cost even became a serious hypothesis, much less a contentious point of debate.

[Brian D]

I'm sure they also think gasoline taxes should be just a flat fee for everyone no matter how much or little gas each person actually uses, right?

Right?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

You Are Stupid and We Will Take Away the Things You Like and Pay For, Pt LXIV

Rather than apologizing for these cancellations, [the administration] should be bragging about them?. Imagine a new law enacted to promote food purity. As it is being debated, you are told 'if you like what you eat, you can keep on eating it.' The new law takes effect, and one day you find that the market no longer carries certain foods you have been buying? [which] included elements found to be bad for your health. The pure food act barred their use.

?People should be no more shocked when substandard insurance plans are removed from the market than they would be if food purity legislation caused some products to be removed from a grocer's shelf?.Obamacare is removing insurance products from the market that are bad for your health.

I think progressives will find themselves surprised by the reactions they get to this line of thought.

[John]

They are going full retard on this. You would think they would be apologizing and claiming that they tried their best but clearly only single payer can give people what they want. But nope. They are going to tell America to go fuck themselves and that they should be thankful for Progs showing them the way.

Hell, the average American didn't even know what toilet paper was until Obama showed them.

Maybe that will work as a campaign slogan. But it will be a bold approach if nothing else.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Think about how stupid you have to be to say that Obama should be bragging about all the healthcare plans that have been cut. This isn't even some nut saying it; it's a guy from the Brookings Institute. I don't know how much glue you have to huff to start thinking that it's a great idea to tell people that the President lied to them and took away their healthcare for their own good, but right now the left blogosphere is acting out the political equivalent Jonestown.

Libertarians, conservatives, and progressives who think Americans will react to this by saying, "thank you sir, may I have another" are entirely wrong. Maybe we won't get repeal, but this is not going to help the left in 2012 and the people who called for shutdown are going to look like prophets.

[John]

Sarcasmic and I had all of these nasty arguments about how this would play out. It turns out we were both wrong. It is not that America won't believe it when they blame the Republicans and insurance companies, it is that the Progs are so crazy, they won't even be smart enough to try and do that.

[Cytotoxic]

Ted Cruz's shutdown, while iffy on tactics, was strategically solid. Almost brilliant. The rest of the GOP should thank him everyday, so I'm sure they'll hate him.

[John]

Funny how beltway conventional wisdom is nearly always completely wrong.

[Cytotoxic]

B-b-but MUH POLLZ /SuderDerp

Thank God SuderDerp and TEAM ORANGE ended their Retard Spaz phase. It's bad enought to write lame columns based on meaningless polls. It's worse to write that same fucking column TWELVE TIMES with increasing condescension and every-shriller TEAM ORANGE fanboy defense. See: Randian

[John]

Randian pissed me off the other day and accused me of never saying that voting for Johnson wasn't a reasonable position since Romney was likely just good enough to get the Rs to share in the blame for all this. So went back and found where I said that. And damned if Randian isn't there on every thread accusing anyone and everyone of being a this or that team hack. Damn, that is his move.

[Cytotoxic]

He used to be okay, but ever since he came back good God is can he be a whiny boring douche.

[Winston]

It's funny that when I complained about those posts by Suderman he responded with "OMG NOT FACTS" after the shutdown he complained about those Reason posting those same meaningless polls!

Also I claimed they would hate those same posts if someone they hated said them and sure enough they hate Peter King and McCain for saying things they agree with when Suderman and Welch say it.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

That was my thought on his plan. No person on the planet can now say that the Dems didn't support ObamaCare, or that Republicans didn't do everything possible to delay its implementation.

[jesse.in.mb]

Obamacare is removing insurance products from the market that are bad for your health.

I visit a doctor less than annually (on average). So it's killing me that I'm paying bad for [my] health for a service I under use?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

What a stupid comment, jesse. Do you really think you know better than the President what is good for you? We're going to make sure your ability to choose bad things is taken from you, and that you'll pay more for shittier service that you don't use in the first place. Oh yeah, vote Democrat!

/progs

[jesse.in.mb]

but, but, but if I had more disposable income, I could pay for a higher class of hooker* and I'd be less likely to end up having to spend time at the doctor getting my herpe-sypha-rhea treated.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

When Obama said you could keep your hooker, he may not have been entirely truthful.

[PapayaSF]

Obamacare is removing insurance products from the market that are bad for your health.

So a policy that doesn't cover birth control, or maternity, or drug or alcohol abuse, is bad for my health? A cheap catastrophic policy I can afford is bad for my health, while a "better" one I can't afford is good for me? It's bad for me as a man to pay less than what a woman of my age would, so when I pay more because she's paying less, that's good for me?

[Kid Xenocles]

So the proposal is that the administration should say, in effect, "Yes, we lied. We never intended for what we said to be reality. Also, you should be thanking us for it."

[GILMORE]

""?People should be no more shocked when substandard insurance plans Kulaks and Wreckers are removed ""

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Joe Biden's niece arrested, pulls the 'don't you know who I am?' card

Pals say the pressure of being Vice President Joe Biden's niece made her a "hot mess" ? but Caroline Biden apparently had no trouble using her status to try and pull rank on cops, The Post has learned
"I shouldn't be handcuffed! You don't know who you're doing this to," Caroline Biden barked at police, according to court documents.
Cops arrested Biden at her then luxury rental apartment in Tribeca Sept. 17 after she allegedly went berserk in a door-pounding, screaming confrontation with her roommate over unpaid rent.
After swinging at a female officer then slapping another, cops cuffed her and took her to the station house.
The unstable 26-year-old rambled for nearly two hours, snootily trying to get cops to make the connection between her name and that of her powerful uncle, court papers show.

She should have listened to Uncle Joe and fired the ol' shotgun in the air.

[Bam!]

"The unstable 26-year-old rambled for nearly two hours" -- A Biden alright.

[C. Anacreon]

Hot Mess! Are you still in school?
I love ya honey!

/Rod Stewart

[PapayaSF]

Wow, the pressure of being someone's niece... my heart bleeds for her incredible burden....

[Derpetologist]

Why Objective Morality Does Not Exist:

http://platedlizard.blogspot.c.....exist.html

What Sam Harris Doesn't Get About Abortion and Stem Cells:

http://platedlizard.blogspot.c.....about.html

[John]

Without God or some kind of higher power, I don't see how objective morality could exist. I don't have any greater claim to the truth than you do. All I have is preferences for how I like the world to be and how I think I should behave.

[Derpetologist]

Like I said, it's all a matter of picking a standard. There is no such thing as objective weight, yet no matter what unit you use, it's easy to see that an elephant weighs more than a mouse.

[Boisfeuras]

There is no such thing as objective weight

Sure there is. Weight = mass * gravitational acceleration. Units are arbitrary, but the property is objective.

[Cytotoxic]

You have preferences, Objectivists have Reason.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?id=11127

Your 'God' is obsolete.

[John]

LOL Yeah, Reason points the way to an objective morality. It is not like logic can produce totally different results depending on what assumptions your start with or anything. And Reason is so obvious that mankind has a set of morals that all rational people agree.

Ah, not exactly.

[Cytotoxic]

So many fallacies, so little time.

If your assumptions are illogical, you're not using reason. That reason isn't obvious doesn't change the fact that it is our only tool for interfacing with reality, and reality is absolute.

[John]

If your assumptions are illogical

Assumptions can't be illogical. They can be odds with reality. But they are not logical or illogical. They are assumptions. And mostly they are result of how you weight things and how you value things. Reason doesn't tell you that say "life is more valuable than freedom" or "Freedom is more valuable than life". Your preferences do. Why do you have those preferences? I don't know. Maybe you just like it that way.

[Cytotoxic]

Assumptions can't be illogical.

LOLWUT? Even by Christ-fag standards this is B-grade.

[Kid Xenocles]

The results of a logical process are only as good as the inputs. Assumptions or axioms are a key input.

[Marc F Cheney]

If God defines morality, then God cannot be good.

Suck on that for a while.

[John]

That assumes you, not being God, can even understand morality to make such a judgement. Who says you are fit to judge God's morality?

And it also assumes their is a God. If there is no God, then there is no morality.

[Cytotoxic]

Who says you are fit to judge God's morality?

I do.

If there is no God, then there is no morality.

For you. For people who can think, there still is.

[Suthenboy]

"Without God or some kind of higher power, I don't see how objective morality could exist."

*Headsmack*

[John]

There is nothing "objective" about your preferences. You like things one way, I like things another. Who are you to tell me my morality is wrong?

[Cytotoxic]

Relativism: not just for the Left!

[Suthenboy]

John, I suspect you and I largely agree on what is moral and what is immoral. Your claim that your imaginary friend endorses your view does not make it more valid.

Claiming that god made something or endorses something is completely unverifiable and thus meaningless.

[General Butt Naked]

Not to mention that no two people can agree on what morality their imaginary friend endorses.

Is objective morality the morality of a suicide bomber, a westboro baptist church member, a communist south american priest, etc?

[GILMORE]

WHICH IS WHY WE MUST BEHEAD THE INFIDEL

[Kid Xenocles]

I don't see how you can have objective morality with a higher power. "God says so" is no better than "I say so," God would just have a bigger gun to back it up.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Morality as an expression of the ontological nature of divine creator which reflect that creator being's intent and purpose through creation. Natural law type stuff, IOW.

[Kid Xenocles]

If it's a reflection of the creator's intent then it's still arbitrary; we've just moved up a level in the hierarchy of arbitrariness. Again, "God says so" is no more objective than "I say so." Even if the nature of this universe reflects those intentions, it still lacks objectivity.

[General Butt Naked]

Without God or some kind of higher power, I don't see how objective morality could exist.

And without an agreed upon standard of objective morality proven to be endorsed by this higher power you're in the same position if that deity never existed. Like humans here on Earth.

[cavalier973]

Love is a trick played on us by the forces of evolution. Pleasure is the bait laid down by the same. There is only Power. Power is of the individual mind, but the mind's power is not enough. Power of the body decides everything in the end, and only Might is Right.

[cavalier973]

Merlyn goes Godwin on Sir Kay. I saw this when I found the link for the response to the "morality" demi-thread.

"By the way. You remember that argument we were having about aggression? Well, I have thought of a good reason for starting a war."
Merlyn froze.
"I would like to hear it."
"A good reason for starting a war is simply to have a good reason! For instance, there might be a king who had discovered a new way of life for human beings ? you know, something which would be good for them. It might even be the only way from saving them from destruction. Well, if the human beings were too wicked or too stupid to accept his way, he might have to force it on them, in their own interests by the sword."

[cavalier973]

"The magician clenched his fists, twisted his gown into screws, and began to shake all over.
"Very interesting," he said in a trembling voice. "Very interesting. There was just such a man when I was young ? an Austrian who invented a new way of life and convinced himself that he was the chap to make it work. He tried to impose his reformation by the sword, and plunged the civilized world into misery and chaos. But the thing which this fellow had overlooked, my friend, was that he had had a predecessor in the reformation business, called Jesus Christ. Perhaps we may assume that Jesus knew as much as the Austrian did about saving people. But the odd thing is that Jesus did not turn the disciples into storm troopers, burn down the Temple at Jerusalem, and fix the blame on Pontius Pilate. On the contrary, he made it clear that the business of the philosopher was to make ideas available, and not to impose them on people."

[cavalier973]

So, you see, Austrian Economics is EVILLL!!!

Wait, what?

[Heroic Mulatto]

I Spit On Your Grave:Pakistan

[GILMORE]

Statistic show cases of child rape have risen from 668 in 2002 to 2,788 last year, according to the International Business Times.

Oh, well it could be worse...

Certain cultural myths persist such as HIV positive men believing they can be cured through sex with a virgin

OK. that's worse.

Never did like Pakistan much, myself.

[Cytotoxic]

Israel blows up some more stuff in Syria. ISRAEL FUCK YEAH

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.555428

[Heroic Mulatto]

That was actually fireworks for (Syrian) Paula Abdul's Bat Mitzvah celebrations, actually.

[Cytotoxic]

SF'd it.

[Bam!]

I wonder what would happen if Syria blew up some of Israel's stuff.

[Cytotoxic]

Syria would then become a parking lot, and my warboner would blot out the sun.

[Derpetologist]

Ridiculous military stunts:
http://platedlizard.blogspot.c.....tunts.html

George Carlin on voting- I watch this every Election Day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Utah mother gives birth to 14 pound baby

A Utah mother has given birth to a 14lb baby boy who's already wearing the same sized diapers as his two-year-old twin sisters.
Joel Brandon Jr., nicknamed J.J., was born by cesarean section on May 9 at Timpanogos Regional Hospital in Orem, weighing in at 14 pounds and measuring 22 inches long.
He is believed to be the heaviest baby born in the U.S. this year; only Addyson Gale Cessna of Pennsylvania, who weighed 13 pound 12 ounce, comes close.
His mother, Sara Brandon, said she was stunned by how big J.J. was when she delivered him at 38-and-a-half weeks, as a previous ultrasound predicted he was going to be 11 pounds.
The family is now wondering if their bundle of joy is indeed this year's biggest.
'We've kind of been watching and waiting to see if there is a baby who is bigger, because he might be the biggest of the year,' Brandon told KSL.
But because of his size, he needed two doctors to help with the birth, rather than one, and required special maneuvering as he was 'so big and crammed in there', she told the Huffington Post.
After he was born, he suffered respiratory problems and needed to spend a week in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit. But he has since returned home and is in good health, his mother said.

Did they use the machine that goes ping?

[Derpetologist]

I hope so. It costs over 3/4 of a million pounds. You see, they leased it back from the company they sold it to so it comes under the monthly current budget and not the capital account.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Introducing specialty dildos

Apparently, creating a rabbi-shaped dildo isn't the most controversial thing British comedian Shed Simove has done.
In fact, it's what he chose to name the sex toy that's giving him a headache. According to Haaretz, Simove is being sued by sex mega-store owner Ann Summers, who thinks that "Rampant Rabbi" is a little too close to her own brand of fun, called the "Rampant Rabbit."
The vibrating Jewish religious leader ? which offers "the modern Jewish woman a religious experience" ? is part of the "masturpieces" collection, a new line of sex toys designed by Simove. Other gems include "C*nt Dracula" ? pretty self-explanatory? and Buckingham Phallus, bearing the royal visage of Queen Elizabeth II.

The creativity is there.

[Marc F Cheney]

What's the deal with sriracha anyway? As far as spicy condiments go, I find it kind of dull. But it's freaking everywhere. They use it twice an episode on Chopped. And half the time I go to the buffet at Whole Foods, half the dishes have sriracha in them.

[Almanian!]

sriracha

Gesundheit!

[Apatheist ?_??]

Siracha is awesome but yeah people are overdoing it now. It's awesome to put in pho.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

It is a great addition to ramen.

I tried to make pho at home once and it took forever and didn't turn out great. Is there a good pho "kit" I can buy? Or I'm I stuck to going out for it?

[Apatheist ?_??]

I live in Houston so I would never bother cooking it at home. There's good Vietnamese places everywhere, hell there's a Pho truck that parks near my place once a week.

[Rhywun]

What's the deal with sriracha anyway?

It has a Subway sandwich now. I never heard of the stuff before yesterday. WTF?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Friedersdorf: Walter White's post-9/11 America

America sometimes reminds me of Walter White.

Not in every way, of course. There isn't anything like a perfect parallel between the plot of Breaking Bad and the course that the U.S. has taken since the September 11 terrorist attacks, the unexpected trauma that made us look at our place in the world anew. I certainly don't think Breaking Bad's writers were attempting an allegory. But I submit that the show's arc (especially Walter White's character arc) imparts lessons about moral logic and its consequences that the U.S. ought to heed.
[...]
Americans are, like Walter White, a self-justifying sort.

We see ourselves as exceptional. Often times we behave as if the rules that apply to the rest of the world, rules we want constraining them, don't and needn't really apply to us. We're not a regular nation, not like the Chinese or the Brazilians or even the French. Take it from The New York Times, our paper of record. Other nations forcing water into a prisoner's lungs is torture.

When we do it? Enhanced interrogation.

America doesn't torture. We're the good guys!

Not the most ridiculous use of Breaking Bad by pundits.

[Cytotoxic]

But still pretty ridiculous.

[ChrisO]

I thought it was very thought-provoking. Interesting, though, that Friedersdorf does not mention the word "Obama" once in the article, even while mentioning his misdeeds.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I liked it, but I wish pundits would stop with the Breaking Bad comparisons.

But still, Friedersdorf did make a good argument about the moral decline of US anti-terror policies rather than bitch about how Walter White is the embodiment of white male privilege and capitalism.

[Irish]

But still, Friedersdorf did make a good argument about the moral decline of US anti-terror policies rather than bitch about how Walter White is the embodiment of white male privilege and capitalism.

Or how the whole thing could have been avoided if we had socialized medicine.

When your argument becomes 'a fictional character wouldn't have become a meth cook if we followed my plan' you should really just pack it in and call it a day.

[Tejicano]

While I do believe in keeping our American ego in check anybody who thinks that only American think their country is exceptional has not learned Chinese and spent time in China. They make the French look modest.

[Killazontherun]

Dad makes his son a prosthetic hand with 3D printer for only $5 vs. $20,000 for traditional prosthetic hand

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50158048n

[CatoTheElder]

The FDA needs to crack down on these unapproved medical devices pronto!

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Government Has Become Smaller

In August of 1966 the U.S. government employed 2,721,000 people. The newest jobs report, released in early September of this year, shows that our 'big government' now employs 2,723,000 people. That is just 2,000 more jobs in government today than we had 47 years ago.

In 1966 about 4.3 percent of all jobs were government jobs. In 2013 the government accounted for just 2 percent of all jobs. To clarify that, the supposedly out of control, big government is less than half the size today, that it was almost 50 years ago.
[...]
A big government is the only entity that is strong enough to take on the kind of massive corruption we see in the private sector.
A big government is the only entity that is strong enough to take on the kind of massive corruption we see in the private sector. From Wall Street and too big to fail banks to the fossil fuel industry and abusive employers like Walmart, without government there's nothing standing in the way of these very big, very rich members of the private sector.

If big government is destroyed, there will be no-one to sue when bankers illegally foreclose on your home. Heck, there'll be no place to sue, since the Justice system itself is a part of the government. There'll no-one to regulate, inspect, enforce or protect the average citizen from a wide range of evils, from contaminated food to environmental destruction.

[PapayaSF]

Ach, too much bullshit to deal with right now. But this gem tells you all you need to know about her mindset:

When the private sector is bigger than the government, that's called a Fascist state.

[ChrisO]

I have extreme doubts about those numbers, and the NYT blogger guy who posted this article doesn't provide a single supporting link.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I think the biggest logical flaw is that it fails to consider the fact that technology has eliminated the need for a large number of jobs.

In addition to this, a lot of stuff government pays for is technically contracted out to companies, so you end up with GSE's like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac or the fuck-ups who wasted all that money trying to build Obamacare exchange websites.

The article is absurdly attempting to make it seem like we live in Libertopia of almost no government.

[Winston]

The article is absurdly attempting to make it seem like we live in Libertopia of almost no government.

Isn't that the Standard prog line since 1981.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

The numbers from opm.gov don't list 2013 (latest date listed is 2011), but here are their numbers for executive branch civilian employment:

1966 -- 2,726,000
2011 -- 2,756,000

Difference of 30,000 civilian employees, not the originally cited 2,000.

Other things worth noting:

The year before (1965), employment numbers were 2,496,000.

This was during the height of the Cold War, and many of those employees were either intelligence, civilian personnel working with the military, State employees, or otherwise employed in a legitimate function of government. The composition of government and what it was doing was very different.

Legislative and judicial employees are not included: in 1966, 33,000 people were employed by these branches of Fedgov; in 2011, that number was 64,000.

Since 2000, we have added ~1.1 million employees to the Federal government.

Most important, government employees are probably a bad proxy to examine the "largeness" of government. If you want to measure government by how much it affects the US population, you would do better to measure spending, regulations, and/or incarceration/fines/other legal penalties -- government employment being only a small part of how governments affect markets and societies.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Crap, I meant we have added ~110,000 employees, not 1.1 million. My bad.

[Irish]

Most important, government employees are probably a bad proxy to examine the "largeness" of government. If you want to measure government by how much it affects the US population, you would do better to measure spending, regulations, and/or incarceration/fines/other legal penalties -- government employment being only a small part of how governments affect markets and societies.

What percentage of the American population was incarcerated in 1966 compared to 2013? How much money was spent? How large was the Code of Federal regulations when compared to today? How many agencies didn't even exist in 1966 that exist today?

Etc. Liberals love their simplistic numbers that they can sling about to muddy the waters.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Right, exactly. FedGov has gotten smaller in some ways (esp wrt price and wage fixing), but there are many other areas where it has gotten much, much larger.

[Irish]

In 1966 about 4.3 percent of all jobs were government jobs. In 2013 the government accounted for just 2 percent of all jobs. To clarify that, the supposedly out of control, big government is less than half the size today, that it was almost 50 years ago.

This doesn't take into account government contractors. It also doesn't take into account the fact that most government spending is no longer used for people to actually do jobs, but is instead direct payments to various interest groups. This means the government is 'larger' as in more intrusive, even though it doesn't have more employees.

Question: When a solar energy company gets all of its money from the government, how are the employees of that company not considered government employees?

Answer: Because we call it a private business!

Question: When Booz Allen Hamilton gets 99% of its funding from the government, how can it reasonably be called anything other than a government agency? More importantly, how can Edward Snowden, a man who blew the whistle on a government NSA program, not be considered a government employee?

Answer: Because we call Booz Allen Hamilton a 'private company' and Edward Snowden is a 'contractor.'

Any analysis that doesn't take into account the massive growth of government contractors, particularly in the intelligence and military sectors, is worthless.

[GILMORE]

Why not simply track real Federal spending per capita relative to GDP per capita?

Duh.

[Eduard van Haalen]

The Vatican wants bishops to provide information on certain questions involving family issues.

http://ncronline.org/news/vati.....d-document

If you're a Catholic in England or Wales, you can submit answers to these questions to the bishops' conference. If you're not a Catholic in England or Wales but want to game the survey, you'll have to have a good deal of expertise on Catholic teaching in order to fake it.

http://svy.mk/17vQADH

[Eduard van Haalen]

Scribd document with cover letters and the questions starting on p. 4 of the main document.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Penguins forward Pascal Dupuis yanks own tooth out on bench during game

Hockey players go through teeth in their careers like kids through candy. Sometimes they lose several at a time as Teemu Selanne did on Tuesday night. Or sometimes they loses one at a time. And remove the teeth themselves. On the bench. During a regular-season game.

Yes, hockey players are tough, you all know this. They're so tough that they can just rip out a tooth on the bench like it's not big deal and keep on playing. That's what Penguins forward Pascal Dupuis did on Wednesday night, just ripped out a tooth and handed it over to the trainer.

Usually you put your tooth under the pillow and the tooth fairy leaves some change (or maybe it's dollars these days, I'm not sure). In this case he should put it somewhere that Kris Letang can leave a lot more than a couple of dollars for Dupuis considering it was his stick that did the damage to the amateur dentist.

Gotta love hockey.

[Jesus H. Christ]

OT: I've got a liberal on Facebook defending the Obama admin regarding Benghazi attack. I'm not super familiar with the whole timeline of who said what. Anyone know of any good sources that break it down?

[GILMORE]

http://www.canadafreepress.com.....icle/51346

[Jesus H. Christ]

Thanks. That's some fascinating speculation, but it's not really a timeline of the administrations's response.

[Eduard van Haalen]

"The Senate is expected to move forward soon on the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, or ENDA (S. 815). Since ENDA is terrible public policy, conservatives and libertarians are right to raise principled objections.

"...ENDA would make it illegal for organizations with 15 or more employees to "fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise discriminate against any individual . . . because of such individual's actual or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity."

"The bill defines "gender identity" as "the gender-related identity, appearance, or mannerisms . . . of an individual, with or without regard to the individual's designated sex at birth." In other words, it creates special rights for transgendered individuals ? males who dress and act as females, and females who dress and act as males ? and forbids employers from considering the consequences of such behavior in the workplace."

http://www.nationalreview.com/.....t-anderson

[Eduard van Haalen]

Rand Paul submits Senate resolution asking Obama to explain about the NSA spying on the Pope:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEBrdxm6YdA

[Eduard van Haalen]

"Sarvis a Libertarian? Nope
The Virginia gubernatorial candidate is a social liberal.

"...I can only imagine...that the better-informed voters in Virginia have been somewhat perplexed by Robert Sarvis, for in recent weeks he appears to have been doing his level best to give the impression that his party label is incidental. In a recent Reason interview, Sarvis explained that he was "not into the whole Austrian type, strongly libertarian economics," preferring "more mainstream economics" instead. The candidate expanded on this during an oddly defensive interview with MSNBC's Chuck Todd, in which he seemed put off not so much by "strongly libertarian economics" as by libertarian economics per se. As governor, Sarvis told Todd, he would be hesitant to cut taxes, unsure as to how he might "reduce spending," and open to indulging the largest piece of federal social policy since 1965 by expanding Virginia's Medicaid program. I am generally a critic of the tendency of small-government types to try to purge their ranks of those deemed sufficiently impure, but I must confess that this interview left even me wondering whether Sarvis is in need of a dictionary."

http://www.nationalreview.com/.....-c-w-cooke

[Eduard van Haalen]

More from this article:

"Worse yet was Sarvis's rambling interview with the Virginia Prosperity Project, in which the candidate expressed his enthusiasm for increasing gas levies, and for establishing a "vehicle-miles-driven tax." It strikes me that it is almost impossible to square such a measure with any remotely coherent "libertarian" position on that most sacred of rights: privacy. Virginia's mooted VMT plan requires the installation of government GPS systems in private cars ? an astonishingly invasive proposal. Even if this isn't what Sarvis has in mind, the fact remains that there is simply no way of determining how far an individual has driven without the government's checking. On Twitter, an amusing fellow with a username not fit for print in this column responded to this idea by contending: "I'm no extremist, but if you put a black box in my vehicle and tax me per mile I will burn down everything you've ever loved." What sort of "libertarian" doesn't feel this way?"

[ChrisO]

If Sarvis was trying to attract Republican voters who don't want the so-con stuff, he sure could be doing a lot better job of it.

[Boisfeuras]

New Yorkers will soon have to wait until 21 to legally buy tobacco products. To buy them illegally, well, I know this guy ? .

Is there case law stating this (for example, or others, like the federally imposed drinking age) is not a violation of equal protection? It seems to me (a non-lawyer) like they should have been easily stricken down if 18 is the age of legal majority.

[cavalier973]

US Military wants to turn movies into reality.

Sounds cool, but I'd think building a lot of (relatively) low-cost radio-guided robots would be more effective on the whole.

[Tejicano]

From my experience as a Marine grunt I know that standing up is the least useful posture during an ongoing firefight. Basically you want to be face down with a good shield in front of you and a well protected top side.

And I also think that any suit like this ought to have some sort of gliding capability - so probably the "back-shield" could also be some sort of split wing arrangement.

So basically my idea for a combat suit would resemble a 2 meter long cockroach.

[damonzgp640]

just before I saw the bank draft four $8209, I didn't believe ...that...my father in law woz actualey earning money part time from there labtop.. there great aunt had bean doing this 4 only 13 months and resantly cleared the loans on their mini mansion and bought a great new Volkswagen Golf GTI. go ............ http://www.BAM21.CoM

[Eduard van Haalen]

Holy shit! Sentence the perps to be buried alive themselves, is my initial reaction. But that would be cruel and unusual, says my rational mind.