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Politics

No, Joan Walsh, I Don't Think That's "gangsta rap talk"

Matt Welch | 10.2.2013 5:03 PM

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Salon's Joan Walsh has responded to my post yesterday that took issue with her contention that "the real story of the shutdown" is "50 years of GOP race-baiting." With the classic musta-touched-a-nerve! formulation popular with juvenile polemicists everywhere, her new piece is titled "Angry right gets mad when you accuse it of race-baiting!"

I'm neither "angry" nor "right," but I'm in the lede, so I thought it may be illustrative to point at Walsh's typical sleight of hand when casually insinuating racism among those who disagree with her politics. She writes:

Unfortunately, he's still mad at me for calling him out on a really dumb column he wrote three years ago. Oops: "Calling him out;" I shouldn't have said that. Because according to Welch, that's gangsta rap talk.

Two things here: 1) I'm not "still mad," bro. Curiosity and wonder are not anger. And 2) it's ludicrous to suggest that I would think even for a second that the phrase "Calling him out" is "gangsta rap talk." Why?

For one, you can search through a quarter-century of my work, and you will never find a phrase or sentiment remotely like "gangsta rap talk." This is just not what I write or care about, except very occasionally to mock curmudgeons who get upset about people "walking on their pants with the cap on backwards listening to the enema man and Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dogg." About the only time I've ever written about "gangsta rap," period, was in an optimistic piece about how "gangsta rap and pop culture are driving out corrupt post-Soviet thugs" in Romania.

Secondly, her whole case for suggesting, falsely, that I'm the kind of guy who is constantly hearing (and presumably fearing) "gangsta rap talk" in casual conversation rests on exactly one piece of evidence: That in September 2009, when President Barack Obama said to his truth-stretching Obamacare opponents "we will call you out," I described it as "a nearly Snoop Doggesque display," linking to a then-hot-of-the-presses Snoop video whose chorus was "we will shut you down."

This sent Walsh's racism-dar on high alert. "Is 'We will call you out' a black phrase? Kind of a black phrase? Urban? Street? Or Snoop Doggesque? (Someone called it that.)," she asked on Twitter. "What in God's name does Snoop Dogg have to do with Barack Obama, (besides the obvious)," she asked in Salon. "I think that line in your piece will go down in history as one of the dumbest white-boy outbursts in the history of covering Obama," she wrote me.

She apparently could not accept my answer: I just found the phrases we will shut you down and we will call you out to be similar, and so made a throwaway link and reference in a blog post whose substance was about the president's veracity, not cadence. And as I suggested to her at the time, the only negative association within this non-noteworthy side-comment came from people who read one into it:

I'm from Long Beach, Joan; Snoop Dogg is a hero of mine. I like — not dislike, but like — that the president of the United States occasionally talks like people my age, and where I'm from.

Such is the absurdly low bar in some allegedly journalistic circles for associating the most toxic modern label to people who have different ideas about health care policy. Something to keep in mind this week as an entire swath of the political spectrum gets tarred as irredeemably racist.

And now, as your reward for reading this much drivel, please enjoy the Reason.tv classic, "Social Security, Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dogg, & Alan Simpson":

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Matt Welch is an editor at large at Reason.

PoliticsCultureRacismGovernment ShutdownMusic
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  1. Mongo   12 years ago

    bich be playin u like gta 5

    1. Almanian!   12 years ago

      word

  2. Invisible Finger   12 years ago

    The "RACIST!" tag has been used so much lately that the only proper response to it is YAWN.

    1. Finrod   12 years ago

      I love quoting the line about how the 21st century definition of a racist is anyone who's winning an argument with a liberal.

      That's why Joan Walsh calls everyone she argues with a racist, because she can't argue her way out of a paper bag with a knife and a pair of scissors.

      1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

        I used to work at a bank in a call center and one of the guys there was a well-read uber-liberal. Whenever someone who was equally versed cornered him with logic, he would just roll his eyes or simply tag the person a 'racist.' And this was the late 90s. Everyone who disagreed with him was a gay basher (he was gay) or an extreme fascist.

        Liberals can be such twats and it looks like this chick is one of them. It's like they just invent shit as they go.

        1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

          The rolling of the eyes of course is meant to convey how utterly out of the intellectual loop someone is so as to be unable to comprehend the enlightenment mind.

          You know, like a progressive.

    2. Episiarch   12 years ago

      That's really the takeaway from this. Matt shouldn't even bother responding, as it implies some kind of legitimacy on her part. Just let her continue to dilute the meaning of racist so much that it becomes meaningless. She's almost there anyway.

      1. Loki   12 years ago

        Matt shouldn't even bother responding

        Joan Walsh is the obnoxious troll of "journalism".

    3. KPres   12 years ago

      Matt's a cosmo. This shit really bothers them.

      1. SIV   12 years ago

        I think so. The retort was long and weak.

        1. KPres   12 years ago

          And pleading. "Please don't call me racist, pleeeeaaasee like me!"

        2. Zeb   12 years ago

          I thought it was pretty good. Sue, you or I shouldn't give a fuck what some moron like that thinks of us, but Matt's job is to write and blog and sometimes engage with idiocy like this. Plus I enjoy reading things like this because I just can't be bothered to go read idiots on Slate myself and I find it amusing.

          1. Michael S. Langston   12 years ago

            Agreed - I don't see Matt as weak at all for responding to Joan's childish idiocy.

            & I think it is instructive to point out that Slate and Joan don't care at all whether they have any evidence or logically reason for calling others racists - they will do so freely to anyone they disagree with.

            Sure - they do it a lot - but really, how often is too often when pointing out that Slate and those that think like them are fully morally bankrupt?

      2. DesigNate   12 years ago

        Being called a racist is probably the one thing that can get under most people's skin. Unless you have evolved to not feel guilt...like Warty.

  3. Doctor Whom   12 years ago

    Now how could anyone possibly ...?

    Oh. It's Salon. That's how.

    1. pmains   12 years ago

      More to the point, it's Joan Walsh, the queen of the dingbats.

      1. Mumu Bobby   12 years ago

        She actually appears on ABC's Sunday Morning talkfest.

        As an expert of some sort. Politics, cosmetics, something like that. It was an 'ics' of some sort.

  4. Being Waterboarded   12 years ago

    Matt, although she is not worth your time (and such a long-winded effort), I do understand your desire to clear your name and intentions. I don't think I've ever been called a racist, but it would probably tick me off. The worst part is, those who claim to be helping races other than their own often are the ones that push for the most damaging policies.

    On the plus side, though, I got to read Mongo's funny-ass comment. Tru Dat!

    1. Doctor Whom   12 years ago

      Where I live, there's a saying that if you've never been called a racist, you've never done anything.

      1. PapayaSF   12 years ago

        A while ago there was a Facebook thread about the "random" and "senseless" murder of that Australian baseball player in Oklahoma. I pointed out that given what was known about the suspects, it was very possibly a crime to gain some street cred, because wannabe rappers and gangstas have been known to do that kind of thing. This was considered a "racist remark" and I got defriended.

        Often, reality is racist, I guess.

        1. Libertymike   12 years ago

          Why would you want to be on FB?

          1. PapayaSF   12 years ago

            It's fun sometimes. I keep in touch with some friends, get some ego boosts when people like or share my posts, get glimpses into the psyches of my liberal friends, and sometimes hone my rhetorical skills.

          2. Hyperion   12 years ago

            Yeah, if you get friended on FB, that's almost as bad of a sign as getting friended on HuffPo.

            However, if you get unfriended, things are starting to look up somewhat, and that's when you should leave, forever.

            1. Michael S. Langston   12 years ago

              I've been done with FB for a while; most due to their privacy issues, but note it's not at all like HuffPo. It's a very big place, so there are libertarian groups and such and you can easily limit your friends to people in the realm should you wish.

              Not that I'm saying anyone should use FB - I think after all their violations of normal decent privacy (they tried, may have succeeded, in updating policy to state they can use any pics you upload without permission nor pay in adverts), lots of people should leave them, but I wouldn't compare to them to HuffPo.

  5. Troy muy grande boner   12 years ago

    It sound like this chick wants to be gangbanged by a bunch of black dudes. I suggest she call Diabolic Studios and try to audition for Gang Bang Auditions.

  6. Tman   12 years ago

    Dude, it's Joan Walsh.

    Seriously.

    The lady just accused the entire GOP of being racist, which must be incredibly confusing to Tim Scott, since he's ya know, black n all.

    Not worth your time.

    1. Erik Jay   12 years ago

      No, Tim Scott is a "wannabe white" or an "Oreo" or whatever epithet L'il Joanie's black allies are tossing at Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, and their ilk these days. The "inauthentic black" label has been dispensed for, lo, these many years. I do wax Romantic (Keats, Byron, Shelley) when I reflect on the death of the Republic. Sniff.

      That's enough. Actually, considering how things are wrapping up on this 120-year slide, enough is too much.

  7. Kenner   12 years ago

    Joan is a "white guilt" pusher. Her drivel does nothing to address the true problem of inner-city families crumbling before our eyes. Everyone who disagrees with her and her ilk are racists, not because they are racists, but only because Joan perceives disagreement as racist.

    Joan Walsh is lost in her head like a Steven King novel of horrors that are around ever turn.

  8. wingnutx   12 years ago

    This is beyond the pale.

    1. Enough About Palin   12 years ago

      What you did there...

      1. Almanian!   12 years ago

        ...we seen it

  9. Paul.   12 years ago

    This Joan Walsh character strikes me as the type of person who constantly rails against gays... you know what I mean?

    1. Episiarch   12 years ago

      You're...you're not suggesting that a TEAM dipshit is projecting, are you, Paul? Because that would be unheard of.

      1. The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc   12 years ago

        Maybe Joan has a routine where she comes home from work, paints her face black and then oppresses herself, before breaking down and sobbing into a goblet of sangria.

        1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

          Al Jolson!

          Mammy! Mammy!

        2. Episiarch   12 years ago

          I'm sure nutraSweet could come up with a suitably disgusting "true story" about Walsh.

          1. Almanian!   12 years ago

            Tell me it involves Kathleen Sebelius and Katrina vanden Heuvel...

            1. JW   12 years ago

              That's a lot of turkey neck for one story.

              1. Hugh Akston   12 years ago

                And that's before they take their pants off

  10. Long Range Boredom   12 years ago

    It really says a lot when Welch's response is calm and rational while Walsh's is her just spewing arrogant nonsense. That's really all you can do with these people, keep your head.

    1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

      I'm really starting to believe that progressivism should be labelled a mental illness. Maybe that's what happened when the government released them from the mental asylum. Either they went on to shoot up places or got jobs as pundits at Slate, Sloan, Daily Beast, Kos and Huffington.

  11. Fist of Etiquette   12 years ago

    Give them a break, Welch. Screaming racism at those with legitimate policy disagreements are all the Obamabots have left. Come to think of it, that's pretty much all they ever had.

    1. Raven Nation   12 years ago

      It's almost like it's a subconscious acknowledgment of intellectual defeat. In the mid-60s the segregationists started called everyone in the civil rights movement communists b/c they had no intellectual response.

      1. Killazontherun   12 years ago

        Like John F. Kennedy (according a Richard Reeves biography) warning MLK he was undermining his cause with all the communist hoodlums he was hanging out with? There was a fuckton of communist in the movement then, and there still is.

        1. Raven Nation   12 years ago

          No doubt. But by the mid-60s, the response to demands for civil rights was "they're all communists." That was a pointless response that didn't address the genuine concerns of civil rights leaders and a lot of Americans.

          I offer it as a parallel to Walsh's "they're racists" which doesn't address anything of substance.

          1. Killazontherun   12 years ago

            In JFKs case its the reason he had to distance himself from MLK. I think it had a significant impact, as a Kennedy CRA and related legislation would have been far less cynical and exploitative than the Johnson one that we are saddled with.

            1. Raven Nation   12 years ago

              Agree again. The Kennedy-as-civil-rights champion was concocted by LBJ, RFK & Jackie each for their own reasons.

              I guess what I was getting at was, if you're a southern black, who isn't a communist, being told your leaders are communists and for that reason we're going to keep you down isn't real helpful.

              1. Killazontherun   12 years ago

                We could have worked it out to coincide with the ending of Apartheid after the collapse of the Soviet Union and it would have been an even more beautiful event in human history.

                Okay, now I'm sounding like David Chapell in the skit where the potential black OJ trial jurorist would find any excuse not to convict.

                'Beretta did that shit.'

                1. Raven Nation   12 years ago

                  AND the Chinese government could have surrendered to the protesters.

    2. KPres   12 years ago

      But it's dumb strategy. Nobody cares about being called racist anymore. All it does is push whites on the fence away from Democrats. And it's not like it attracts minorities. What are they going to do, eek out that last 2% of the black vote?

  12. BigT   12 years ago

    Why dignify this c*nt with a response?

    1. Jeff   12 years ago

      Really. Fuck this stupid cooze, and fuck Matt for taking her seriously.

      1. The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc   12 years ago

        She pretty much accused Welch of being a racist, so I support him for writing a calm rebuttal.

        But I think Matt should stop after this because it's just feeding her victim complex where she claims to be assailed on Twitter by right-wing racists.

        1. Ranter   12 years ago

          I think Matt should challenge her to a battle rap.

          Just drop some dope lyrical 187s on her ass, cuz bitch be straight-up TRIPPIN.

        2. Hyperion   12 years ago

          She pretty much accused Welch of being a racist

          While calling him racist names. Classy.

    2. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

      I think you misspelled 'cunt.'

  13. Benjamin   12 years ago

    My God we are so fucked.

  14. Jeff   12 years ago

    Matt, you just put a whole lot of effort into refuting someone whose only response to this (or anything else) will be, "lol u racist bro?"

  15. Enough About Palin   12 years ago

    "dumbest white-boy outbursts"

    How is this not racist? Same as hearing some black woman on Sharpton's show last night talking about "lily-white Republicans". It's racism straight up.

    1. Hyperion   12 years ago

      white-boy outbursts

      Why not just use the term, craker? What's the difference?

      1. Paul.   12 years ago

        I thought craker was a weird religion.

        1. Hyperion   12 years ago

          Cracker. Damnit, I was typing fast, I had to unload groceries from my car...

          That's Quaker you are thinking about.

        2. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

          I drove by a Quaker meetinghouse the other day. I actually did a double-take. Quakers? In Florida?

          1. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

            If there's Quakers in NY, there's gonna be Quakers in Florida.

            Incidentally, there's this from Rufus Jones' history of colonial-era Quakers. The late 17th century governor of NC, John Archdale was a Quaker, and "He was so far tolerant of other faiths than his own that he took up friendly relations with the Catholic Spaniards of Florida. Four Indians, converts of the Spanish priests, were captured by Carolina Indians and exposed for sale as slaves. Archdale ransomed them and sent them to the Spanish Governor at St. Augustine. " I shall manifest
            reciprocal kindness," wrote the Spaniard, and he was true to his promise."

            http://archive.org/stream/quak.....t_djvu.txt

    2. Loki   12 years ago

      According to my proggie decoder ring, it says that only white people are capable of racism.

      Because... something something... traditional oppressor class... something something... privilege... I'm having a hard time translating from DERP to English, sorry.

      1. Hyperion   12 years ago

        Why you white men have more cargo?

        1. PBR Streetgang   12 years ago

          I just finished reading this book. Fascinating.

      2. Long Range Boredom   12 years ago

        White people deserved to get kicked out of Zimbabwe and have their land taken over by Mugabe's cronies right? Social justice. I mean, fuck them for their ancestors. How's that racism?

    3. Episiarch   12 years ago

      Like I said to Paul above (in so many words):

      TEAM BLUE? Projecting completely? It's un-possible!

      1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

        They should replace the donkey as a symbol with a projector.

    4. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

      You know, I grow tired of this nonsense. I'm not the least bit ashamed of being descended from Europeans. Or even being from the South. Neither me nor any of the ancestors I know are bad people, racists, intolerant, or any of the other crap these awful, awful people want to attribute to us because of the color of our skin and the region we were born in.

      I can't say "fuck you" strongly enough. Personally, I'm proud of the fact that western culture bucked thousands of years and an almost universal trend of oppression, disregard of individual rights, etc. for a brief while. The good beats the crap out of the bad, but no, let's pretend otherwise and nuke the baby in the bathwater.

      Grumble.

      1. Hyperion   12 years ago

        I'm not the least bit ashamed of being descended from Europeans

        Me either. In fact, since I am of Welsh heritage, I demand that I be called a Welsh American by every proglotard I see, or they are fucking racist assclowns. Ok, they are racist assclowns, but I still want them to call me Welsh American. That's Welsh American, Sir, biaatchhes.

        1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

          I recently watched a lecture series on classical Greece, and one of the passing remarks made by the professor at the end was that the obsession with identity politics today has really deemphasized the teaching of the classical period. The period upon which much of our government is based.

          He went further to note that the Founders were aware not only of the political structure of Rome and places like Athens, but they were even more conscious of how those societies failed.

          Today, we're producing generations of kids with little to no awareness of what educated people 200+ years knew perfectly well. So, we pretend that western culture is just another culture, of no particular importance, despite the fact that it's our culture and it's the basis of our entire system of government.

          1. Episiarch   12 years ago

            Uh, most people are not good or avid students of history, ProL. I'm sure most kids 50 years ago promptly forgot most everything they learned in history about Rome or Greece. Just because the education establishment nowadays is fucking terrible doesn't change that. The kids today mostly just forget the bullshit that their teachers teach them now, just like they always have.

            1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

              I'm not talking about them being experts on classical times. Just exposed to it. They damned well were until the last twenty years or so.

              1. Episiarch   12 years ago

                Should I get off your lawn, ProL? I didn't have much exposure to Greece and Rome in my regular history classes, just the basics. I got much more in Latin class, and then electively in college. And I like that stuff. I don't know why you think that going into a little bit more detail would make the slightest difference to kids who just don't care and aren't interested.

                Most people just don't care about this stuff, and they have no interest in learning from history, because history often tells most people that their ideas have been tried--and failed--before. And they don't like that, so they ignore history.

                TEAM BLUE/leftists/socialists aren't the champions of failed policies because they don't know history. They don't know history because they are champions of failed policies. They don't want that history to exist, because it means that reality says their ideas are stupid.

                1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                  Here's the thing. They still have some equivalent of Civics classes today. But what do they teach? Jack and shit about the founding of the U.S. Even less about the classical and later basis (e.g., English government and law) for our government. Which means it's all just a complete mystery, even to the marginally educated.

                  I deem this bad. Though I agree, plenty of it is willful ignorance.

                  1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                    Also, one really sad aspect to all of this is the general availability of so much knowledge today. Even on the web, with its distortions, a decent amount of accurate information is easy enough to find.

                  2. Episiarch   12 years ago

                    Relying on the government to educate children is folly, ProL. If people want their kids educated properly, they need to pay for it or do it themselves. Smart kids will read books or go online and start checking stuff out.

                    The ones who are interested will still learn without the government trying to help them, and the ones who aren't, won't, just like always.

                    I'm still on your lawn, by the way.

                    1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                      My lawn transcends your comprehension, so no, you are not.

                      My point wasn't really about what's available or whether government should be involved in education (obviously, it shouldn't be), it's just noting that something that used to be fairly general knowledge among people with a high school education isn't anymore. And I think that started being more true than not at least a generation back.

                    2. Episiarch   12 years ago

                      When I was a kid and I learned all about Rome in Latin class, I realized how little of that was taught in regular class. It wasn't fairly general knowledge back then, and I doubt it was when you were in schoo...oh wait, you went to high school with Socrates, right? So I guess it was common knowledge back then.

                      Sorry, my mistake.

                    3. Gojira   12 years ago

                      Good thing they taught about Greece and Rome way back when, otherwise people might have bought FDR's hogwash and we'd have had that garbage alternative historians insist would have been called the "New Deal".

                      And don't even get me started on what a disaster the Johnson and Nixon administrations would have been for the expansion of gov't, if those voters hadn't had a healthy dose of classical history under their belts to know that the Great Society, EPA, DEA, and decoupling of a precious metal standard would all be incredibly detrimental to the future.

                      Man, we dodged a real bullet.

                    4. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                      Ignorance is a good thing, more ignorance is better?

                    5. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                      Actually, it was taught enough when I was in school that I at least knew where the Founders were looking when they cobbled together this government.

                      To be sure, the real move away from classical education happened quite some time ago.

                    6. Gojira   12 years ago

                      Not saying ignorance is ever a good thing, just trying to refute your specific idea which seems to link the explosive growth in gov't to declining classical education.

                      I think, really starting with TR, then kicking it up a notch with Wilson, and then taking off into the stratosphere with FDR, that the problems have been going on a lot longer than just the last few decades, and teaching kids more about Greece and Rome would have no impact whatsoever on their voting habits.

                    7. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

                      "I think, really starting with TR, then kicking it up a notch with Wilson, and then taking off into the stratosphere with FDR, that the problems have been going on a lot longer than just the last few decades, and teaching kids more about Greece and Rome would have no impact whatsoever on their voting habits."

                      I suspect all these Presidents - certainly Wilson - knew about the history of Greece and Rome. The lesson Wilson (and perhaps the others) seem to have taken away is the importance of Great Leaders - Pericles, Augustus, Marcus Aurelius, Palpatine (were they studying Palpatine back then?), etc.

                    8. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

                      And a lot of historians are statists. Even the ones who profess to be studying history from the "bottom up," examining the lives of "real people" rather than the careers of great (wo)men. And they get academic boners when contemplating some ruler who "encouraged learning" (ie, gave jobs to people like historians).

                    9. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                      Your error, Jim, was basing that on what Episiarch said I said and not on what I actually said up there somewhere. It's hardly a tenable argument to suggest that the only reason we have a massive state right now is because people don't know that the Athenian assembly were power-mad buffoons.

                    10. seguin   12 years ago

                      He only learned about Greece. He only knows about the Romans as a subject people of the Etruscans.

                    11. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

                      ProL, invite Episiarch to your lawn already for fuck sakes.

                    12. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                      Oh, he's invited, so long as someone cleans up after him.

                    13. Zeb   12 years ago

                      Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot fewer people got a high school education when classical education was the thing. When everyone pretty much has to go to high school, things are bound to get dumbed down a bit. You see the same thing with college grade inflation.

                    14. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

                      The Baby Boomers really threw the whole "advanced education for the elites" thing for a loop. Well-off parents are, of course, de facto coming up with a form of elite education for their kids, but it's not official like it used to be. And I don't know if it's as effective.

                    15. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                      It's hard to even talk very precisely about education before it was totally taken over by government. For instance, I have an ancestor that was a lawyer (and a teacher) and in a state legislature back in the 1800s who never went to law school, and I don't think he went to college. And he was probably homeschooled through high school.

                2. Hyperion   12 years ago

                  I didn't have much exposure to Greece and Rome in my regular history classes, just the basics

                  Well, that's probably ok. It's probably due to the fact that you didn't get exposed to sex ed in Kindergarten that you turned out like you did.

                  I mean, my parents told me a fucking stork is how babies get here, and look what the fuck it did to me!

            2. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

              Besides, how people really learn to hate you Italian types without knowing your sordid history?

              1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                How can people, that is. English is the language of the oppressors, so I do not speak it willingly.

          2. Hyperion   12 years ago

            He went further to note that the Founders were aware not only of the political structure of Rome and places like Athens, but they were even more conscious of how those societies failed

            It really makes me sad when I visit places like Monticello and learn about what kind of thinkers and intellectuals our founders were, and then have to look at the clown who now occupies our highest office. It's really depressing.

            Proglotard response: 'He owned slaves, you're a racist!'

            1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

              Or, in some cases, they'll agree and suggest that everything will be peachy once people like that are running things. People like THE GOD OBAMA.

            2. Killazontherun   12 years ago

              Hemings! (Never mind that the finding was two generations removed from Jefferson, pretty typical of an old line family in Virginia, but, hey, that agenda doesn't push itself.)

              1. Hyperion   12 years ago

                I think that when Jeffersons wife died, it affected him pretty badly, and the vow to never remarry and all. Hemings was there, supposedly very attractive girl, he was a guy, lonely and single. There doesn't seem to be anything sinister about it to me.

                But of course, I'm just another racist white defending my own kind.

                1. Killazontherun   12 years ago

                  He may have plowed her, but the genetic evidence doesn't support it. He would have been nailed as a direct descendant instead of within two generations related.

            3. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

              Monticello. /White Goodman giggle.

              You're so cute remembering dead white guys, Hyperion. In case you haven't noticed, modern society is sooo much more complex than it was back then. They would have agreed with Obama anyway.

              Tony.

        2. Long Range Boredom   12 years ago

          As part of your cultural heritage, do you require a sheep attached to your local lamp post?

          1. Hyperion   12 years ago

            I'll just take one of the comments from that article and use it myself:

            I'm Welsh by forefathers and American by birth so take any feeble attempts? at scorn of the Welsh community world wide or any specific Welsh individual and SHOVE IT!

      2. JW   12 years ago

        You know, I grow tired of this nonsense.

        Well, you wouldn't if you weren't some racist white cracker.

        Joan Walsh is just taking it back for the black man.

        1. Libertymike   12 years ago

          If a black person identifies first with his race or if he views his skin color as one of, if not the, most important of his attributes, he has signaled that his individuality is subordinate to the groupthink stunting his intellect.

          1. Tony   12 years ago

            Says the person in one of the most insular (not to mention racially uniform) political cults in the world.

            When you're a minority you identify heavily with that minority attribute. Being gay is extremely important to me. It's what we have instead of, you know, maximum social privilege. It's nothing to piss yourself over.

            1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

              Is it me or has Tony become more aggressive in his vapid, unsubstantiated gibberish?

              I've been reading Reason for a decade now and have never,ever, felt an inking of racism here. Tony must see a lot of things off his meds I guess.

              1. Michael S. Langston   12 years ago

                You see, according to Tony - it's racist to not be able to see the need for groupthink by minorities.

                Of course as is usual for Tony, the true racism is from Tony's point of view which says minorities are not capable of anything other than groupthink and identity politics.

                1. Tony   12 years ago

                  You guys are the ones saying they almost all vote Democratic because they are too stupid to see they are being deceived.

                  Look, a bunch of pale-faced libertarian jackoffs don't get to define the terms on this issue. Especially not with leaders (the Pauls) with close ties to white supremacists.

            2. seguin   12 years ago

              FOR GREAT SOCIAL JUSTICE!

      3. KPres   12 years ago

        Yeah, being ashamed of being white is so 2000s. Seriously, we're either the best race on the planet or tied with the Asians (I say we edged them out with the industrial revolution).

        1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

          What's beautiful is that we're all human and can learn from the successes and failures of all of our subsets. Libertarianism, for instance, is good for any of us, white, black, American, Asian, whatever. As are free markets, science, technology, morality, etc.

          1. KPres   12 years ago

            I don't know about that. Statism is pretty good for the political class. Free markets are bad for cronies. But those people are all shitstains anyway so fuck 'em. Liberty is good for all the good people. That's why good people are attracted to it and drunks like Tony hate it.

            1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

              I didn't quite mean it that way, but no kidding. Libertarian ideas aren't good to the oppressor class. Not good for them, not good for the people they want to submit to their will.

            2. BakedPenguin   12 years ago

              Hey now, Kpres, some of us drunks are libertarian,. too.

              1. KPres   12 years ago

                I was talking about a special category of drunks, ie, drunks like Tony. Not all drunks. Emphasis...had to convey in writing sometimes 🙂

            3. Killazontherun   12 years ago

              What the fuck, man? Drunks?

        2. Hyperion   12 years ago

          It's only due to the fact that we had more cargo, dude.

          Now that we've figured that out, we know that it's all about climate change. You see, white dudes learned an evil trick from Satan, the devil, and figured out they could burn down forests and create grasslands.

          As a result of this Satanic climate change trickery, we had grains, delicious animals to eat, like pigs and chickens, and animals to ride on, like horses.

          That's why whites did so much better and developed superior technology.

          Other peoples around the world had to eat grubs, lizards, and unwholesome weeds, and ride on Ostriches and Llamas.

          Do you think that was fair? Well, do you!? Why do you continue to be such a racist!? It wasn't fair man, IT WASN'T FAIR!

          1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

            I wonder if things had to end up this way or if we could've stayed on track to a free and advanced society. We'll be back to the Middle Ages at this rate in no time.

            1. Hyperion   12 years ago

              A 2nd dark ages sound plausible, as the proglodytes wipe out science and technology in favor of a permanent ruling class and social justice.

              1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                If it's anytime soon, I'm going to learn how to swing a sword. No serfdom for me.

              2. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

                Hyperion, we're already there and it started in 1914. Maybe a little before.

                Human achievement in the West has been on the decline for at least 60 years now.

                Absent of real, genuine genius progs get to pretend.

                Enjoy.

                1. Zeb   12 years ago

                  I think people have advanced in some ways since then. I think looking to the past for how things should be is not a great thing. Yes, a lot of things were better in government and society 100 years ago. But a lot of things were also pretty terrible. We should look at history and learn what we can from it, but imagining some golden age in the past is usually pretty silly.

            2. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

              I wouldn't want to go back to Medieval hygiene and medicine, but it's worth noting that the Magna Charta got issued in the Middle Ages, the modern university was invented, etc.

              1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

                Magna Carta, while important, wasn't exactly a classically liberal document.

                1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

                  Technically no because political labels as we defined them later. It even predates humanism that came around in Renaissance Italy.

      4. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

        Sorry Pro - points to sign - Tony already labelled you racist.

        1. Zeb   12 years ago

          Well, he does admit that he is from the south and white. What else do you need to know?

          1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

            Yes, the evidence is overwhelming, isn't it? Shrike labeled me as redneck, as well. Which I'm trying to unravel, since I bear very few of the hallmarks of redneckness. Except that I'm of Northern European descent and a native of the South. Look, there I go capitalizing the South--proof positive!

          2. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

            With a name like Zebulon, you must have a truck with a giant Confederate flag in the bed. Right? No, don't answer, because it's true no matter what your silly perceptions suggest to the contrary.

  16. Hyperion   12 years ago

    white-boy outbursts

    That sounds entirely racist to me.

    1. Ska   12 years ago

      She's white; it's OK when she says it.

      1. Hyperion   12 years ago

        No, it's not. I am entirely sick of these people.

        1. Ska   12 years ago

          I guess you've never seen a black comedian work an analogous version of that joke...

          1. Hyperion   12 years ago

            The difference is that they are comedians making a joke, while she's a hateful and vile bitch trying to insult her own race because she's so self loathing and can't stand to be miserable alone, she needs to drag down the rest of us with her. I'm not going, fuck all progressives straight to hell.

            1. Ska   12 years ago

              Yeah, I was just making a joke, but I see your vitriol is aimed at her self-loathing (deservedly) more than at my low level satire.

    2. Invisible Finger   12 years ago

      White women can't be racist if they use black lingo.

  17. Caleb Turberville   12 years ago

    Joan Walsh is a really bad person.

    I mean, I'd rather have a political discussion with Michael Moore, Alec Baldwin, and Janeane Garofalo than ever have to think about Joan Walsh.

    She is a really, really bad person.

    1. Jordan   12 years ago

      Speaking of Alec Baldwin, the new South Park was just so-so, but the parts with Alec Baldwin were golden.

      1. Caleb Turberville   12 years ago

        Yeah. Those parts were good. I slammed Bill Hader's new direction on the writing, but he did a fine job with voicing Baldwin.

        Tonight's episode is about Minecraft, so it promises to be a vast improvement over last week.

    2. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

      Caleb, should that last line be read in Babu's accent?

      1. Caleb Turberville   12 years ago

        ...Yes?

      2. Caleb Turberville   12 years ago

        Am I wrong? She takes unlike-ability to a low Michael Moore or Keith Olbermann have never even dreamed of.

        1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

          Not that my foreign opinion matters but yes, they're despicable people. We have boatloads of them up here with an added twist - draft dodgers who came here are about as intellectually stunted as they come and they've managed to get on the radio and get journalism jobs. It's really sad reading and listening to these people.

          They have not evolved at all and it really is sickening listening to them babble on and on and on. One sports guy still tries to insert a 'blame Bush' line every chance he gets. Sports writing in 2013 and this is what we get?

          Retarded.

  18. grrizzly   12 years ago

    I think it's about time to stop calling it "the most toxic modern label." The word racist means nothing these days, like fascist it's just an insult without deeper meaning.

    1. Almanian!   12 years ago

      Yeah - just what a racist fascist would sa

  19. Jordan   12 years ago

    Shorter Joan Walsh: Derp.

  20. Hawk Spitui   12 years ago

    You should have just told her to go make you a sammich.

    1. Hyperion   12 years ago

      Or a nice turkey pot pie.

  21. Jordan   12 years ago

    HA HA!

    There's another budget crisis in Washington, and it's unfolding inside the Democratic party. The Democratic National Committee remains so deeply in the hole from spending in the last election that it is struggling to pay its own vendors.

    Guess they stuck to their Keynesian principles.

    1. Caleb Turberville   12 years ago

      I guess you can't equate the national budget to a national political committee budget the same way you can't equate it to a family budget.

      National budgets are a one-of-a-kind phenomena.

      1. Almanian!   12 years ago

        It's unprecedented. And unexpected.

        And, yes, TOTALLY different.

    2. neoteny   12 years ago

      Several executives at firms that contract to provide services to the party -- speaking anonymously to avoid antagonizing what remains an important if troubled client --

      I like this important if troubled client bit. Sounds like some California municipalities which can sell bonds even as they inch toward bankruptcy.

    3. PapayaSF   12 years ago

      Maybe they can get Obama to bail them out with federal funds.

  22. Tony   12 years ago

    You were smart to focus on that throwaway nonsense about "calling out" because in the rest of the piece Joan thoroughly destroys you and the revisionist nonsense that racism hasn't been essential to Republican and libertarian politics for decades.

    1. Paul.   12 years ago

      libertarian politics for decades.

      ...Plotting to take over the world and leave you alone...

      1. Jordan   12 years ago

        YOU WANT TO TREAT EVERYONE EQUALLY, DON'T YOU, YOU FUCKING MONSTER?!

        1. PapayaSF   12 years ago

          Funny how "treating all races equally" was the progressive position a few generations ago, and now it's the "racist" position.

          1. Tony   12 years ago

            Yes, it's the new racism. Everyone who gets out of his basement more than a few times a year is aware of this.

            When you treat all races equally (in the mold of Stephen Colbert's satire of "color-blindness"), you entrench existing differences in privilege.

            But all I really care about is the actual policies like voting restrictions that are deliberately treating minorities worse.

            1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

              Tony, it's funny, from the posts I've been able to composite the bios of some of the people here through snippets of their comments. One thing I've noticed, some are quite well traveled, even have work experience in other places and others born outside the country.

              I myself have a modest travel bio and speak three languages.

              I guess we're well-journeyed racists.

              /sad face.

              :

              1. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

                Hitler travelled to France, that doesn't mean he wasn't a racist.

                Genghis Khan travelled all over the place, but you probably won't find him at a Diversity Encounter Weekend.

                1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

                  I've known people who have traveled much more than me and still manage to know less about the places they visited than I do.

                  Traveling imperialists Napoleon and Hitler plundered Italy's treasures for their own vanity. At least, Hitler admired Italian history and culture. Napoleon, despite Italian heritage, called them a nation of plungers. Or was it plumbers? I forget.

                  Ironies, ironies.

            2. PapayaSF   12 years ago

              When you treat all races equally, you entrench existing differences in privilege.

              So we must treat races differently until all privileges are equalized, huh? We must fight privilege with inverted privilege! Or is it anti-privilege? We must take privilege from those in the groups that have too much, and give it to those in groups that have too little! I must give up my white privilege to Oprah, because she's been deprived of privilege!

              In any case, races must be defined, everyone classified, and statistics gathered! It's all so obvious!

              Tony, you are so full of shit. You can kind of form mental concepts and use English, but none of it adds up.

              1. Tony   12 years ago

                If we're going to fetishize meritocracy then we could at least attempt to form a meritocracy.

                1. seguin   12 years ago

                  Just fuck off already. You're boring.

                2. PapayaSF   12 years ago

                  So now advocating treating people of all races as equal before the law, the dream of Martin Luther King and every other great civil rights leader, is to "fetishize meritocracy"? You are really a trip. And I take back what I said about your ability to use English.

                  1. Tony   12 years ago

                    Don't invoke MLK you ridiculous shit. MLK supported affirmative action. He was against the new racism you're spewing before you learned how to spew it.

      2. Tony   12 years ago

        You do have to take over the world first. I've always been curious about that part.

        1. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

          If you're curious, I would suggest you consider fucking yourself.

    2. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

      Tony!

      Psh.

      By the way, for what it's worth, I responded to your, erm, take about liberals in the Virginia thread.

      You're funny Tony. I wonder how you are drunk.

      1. Hyperion   12 years ago

        One sip of alcohol and Tony would fall over and pee his pants.

      2. Tony   12 years ago

        I'm a fun drunk. Good think because I'm also an often drunk.

        1. KPres   12 years ago

          Yeah, obnoxious drunks always think they're fun.

          1. Hyperion   12 years ago

            I'm surprised his mummy allows him to drink.

            1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

              From his sippy cup maybe.

              1. seguin   12 years ago

                Only when he's wearing water wings.

    3. PapayaSF   12 years ago

      Tony, the Master of Projection. Racism has been central to Democrat politics for decades. Here's the proof: if racism went away tomorrow, it wouldn't make a lick of difference to libertarians, and not much to Republicans. But Democrats would be crippled, because they'd loose their biggest rhetorical weapon and the whip they use to keep blacks on the plantation.

      1. KPres   12 years ago

        Well said and case closed.

        1. Libertymike   12 years ago

          Except that racism will not go away as long as there are affirmative action policies and programs, black democrats, a congressional black caucus, 80% of black babies born out of wedlock, black people who carp about there being more white people on welfare while simultaneously ignoring that a far higher percentage of black people get handouts, gangsta rap and white people who are afraid of calling a nigger a nigger.

          1. KPres   12 years ago

            "Except that racism will not go away as long as there are affirmative action policies and programs, black democrats, a congressional black caucus"

            But those things will go away. They were built on white guilt and white guilt is fading. The race card has been over-the-limit for so long they cancelled the account and charged it off! LOL!

            1. Libertymike   12 years ago

              Sooner, rather than later, hopefully.

          2. Tony   12 years ago

            Racism will not go away until white people start calling black people niggers.

            I just thought it was worth repeating.

      2. Tony   12 years ago

        It boggles the mind that you don't see the inherent racism in this abomination of an opinion.

        Almost all black people vote Democratic. So what are you saying? Black people are universally too stupid to notice they're voting for the actual racists? The head spins.

        1. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

          That's actually a good point, and one worthy of debate. Unfortunately, you have proven time and time again that you refuse to argue in good faith, so I won't engage in that discussion with you.

          1. Tony   12 years ago

            But you'll engage nonetheless?

            I don't know what faith I'm supposed to be respecting. I try to give honest, sincere opinions. I'm not trying to get anything over on anyone, just win the argument. I'd be happy to address any bad faith concerns you have if you might explain what you mean.

            1. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

              I mean is that I find you are often disingenuous when making your arguments. If that is not truly the case, you might want to examine how you present your arguments on this forum and how they are often perceived.

              As for the previous point, I recommend the documentary Runaway Slave, which examines your question in detail. I don't agree with the documentary 100 percent, but it makes good points.

              1. Tony   12 years ago

                "Andrew Breitbart, Glenn Beck, Herman Cain and Rep. Allen West are among the notable names featured in the film who offer their insight and opinion into the topic."

                Uhhhhh.... we'll see. Still, if almost all black people vote for one party, and if that party is the truly racist one, then you can't explain this phenomenon without invoking some pretty seriously racist claims. What makes black people particularly susceptible to this deception, and nearly universally so?

              2. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

                Look, HM, you're not *really* black because of that white blood. A mulatto isn't authentically...wait a minute...Obama is *what?*...OK, just forget I said anything.

        2. Zeb   12 years ago

          Well, most white people are stupid enough to get suckered into devotion to one party or the other too. Black people don't have any special level of stupidity in this respect (and I'm not trying to say that most people are totally stupid, just that most people are pretty stupid in some way or other). Because of some strange accidents of history most American blacks ended up being Democrats despite the fact that for most of the 20th century the Democrats were the more overtly racist party.

          1. Tony   12 years ago

            And they're almost all ignorant of this fact?

            Ever heard of the Southern Strategy? Democrats are the anti-racist party, and it would be unthinkably politically stupid of them not to be. The GOP electorate is almost uniformly white. You don't need to parse anything else to figure out which party is more exclusive of minority races.

            1. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

              That's why Republicans had those two cracker honkies elected as governor in Louisiana and South Carolina.

              1. Tony   12 years ago

                Yet they couldn't get a single nonwhite nonmale in their conference committee photo-op.

                We have two nonwhites! Two! That makes us definitely not the party of almost exclusively white people!

        3. PapayaSF   12 years ago

          Your head spins a lot, so that doesn't tell us anything.

          No, I didn't write or mean "Black people are universally too stupid to notice they're voting for the actual racists." While the Democratic party is arguably racist in the sense of the "bigotry of low expectations," what I said and meant was that the concept of racism was central to them, because they use it as a rhetorical weapon to demonize opponents, justify bullshit government intervention and vote-buying handouts and corrupt cronyism, and generally either scare blacks or buy them off. E.g. Biden saying that Republicans want to "bring back slavery."

          Blacks, like any large voting block, are susceptible to bullshit political scaremongering and vote-buying. "Racism" is now the Democrat's premier tool for those things.

          1. Tony   12 years ago

            This argument is inherently racist and you can't bullshit your way out of that fact. If almost all black people vote for one party, then if there is any party that is more antiblack than the other, I think it's pretty clear that it would be the party that almost no blacks vote for.

            Unless blacks are universally prone to being deceived and voting against their own interests.

            1. PapayaSF   12 years ago

              No large group is "universally prone" to anything.

              Leftists are constantly saying that various groups vote against their own interests... when those people vote Republican or Libertarian. Of course, when they do it, it's never "racist."

              When it comes down to it, you're just as narrow-minded and deluded as any backwoods fundamentalist that you no doubt consider yourself superior to. The fundamentalist sees sin and sinners everywhere. His world is defined by it. Of course, there really is sin in the world, and sinners too, but he is obsessed, so he sees it where it doesn't exist, and when it does, it looms overwhelmingly large. Everyone who disagrees with him, on anything, is another sinner, and a defender of sin. His worldview is locked up tight. Sin explains everything.

              Substitute "race" and "racism" for "sin and "sinners," and change some of the rest of the vocabulary, and you have the modern "progressive," and Tony.

    4. Hopfiend   12 years ago

      lame as usual.

  23. The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc   12 years ago

    Salon magazine, you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy:

    Kevin Cunningham 20 minutes ago
    Let's make it simple. The Tea Party is racist to the core, the reason they exist as a political movement is because they hate African-Americans including Obama. Every Libertarian is stained with racism, the Paul's , racists to the core, are their leaders, if you're a libertarian you are a racist.

    If you are a conservative you should either stand up and throw your racist out of your party or just accept the fact that you and every one on your side is a racist. or a racist sympathizer. The conservatives have to act, they have to act like they claim, bravely. Yeah, that's gonna happen....Kevin Cunningham 20 minutes ago
    Let's make it simple. The Tea Party is racist to the core, the reason they exist as a political movement is because they hate African-Americans including Obama. Every Libertarian is stained with racism, the Paul's , racists to the core, are their leaders, if you're a libertarian you are a racist.

    If you are a conservative you should either stand up and throw your racist out of your party or just accept the fact that you and every one on your side is a racist. or a racist sympathizer. The conservatives have to act, they have to act like they claim, bravely. Yeah, that's gonna happen....

    1. Hugh Akston   12 years ago

      Could you provide a link to that insanity please?

      1. The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc   12 years ago

        It's from the comments section of Walsh's 'rebuttal' to Welch's blog post.

        It's the first link of the first sentence in this post.

        1. Hugh Akston   12 years ago

          Oh, well then what the hell are you doing reading the comments section on Salon? That's like pouring Drano in your eyes.

          1. The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc   12 years ago

            Because I can take it. I spent years dealing with such people in the college lecture halls of California.

            1. Episiarch   12 years ago

              Oh, so you think you're a tough guy, huh? You wanna prove how tough you are? Start reading Fark comments.

              1. Tman   12 years ago

                Fark at least has the occasional sanity.

                No such thing exists at Salon or Puffington Host.

    2. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

      He's no Richie Cunningham that's for sure.

    3. Irish   12 years ago

      That is some of the worst grammar and most bizarre use of commas that I have ever seen.

      Why are leftists such bad writers? Marx, Marcotte, Yglesias...it's like progressivism rots the part of your brain responsible for language.

      1. Episiarch   12 years ago

        Because they are ideologues, partisans, and cultists, and they operate within a sphere where if you just say the right stuff, you are praised and complimented, even if you said it terribly.

        Ideology and partisanship are the death of talent.

      2. The Immaculate Trouser   12 years ago

        Marx at least had the excuse that he was being (poorly) translated from German to English.

        Marcotte and Yglesias supposedly went to college to refine their ability to write persuasively in English.

  24. Hugh Akston   12 years ago

    In before Tony accuses Matt of racism on no evi...Dammit!

    1. Jordan   12 years ago

      A progressive running to play the race card currently holds the land speed record. Don't even bother.

    2. Loki   12 years ago

      Strong is he, in the Derp Side...

  25. Almanian!   12 years ago

    Wow - cool story, bro.

    Matthew - I understand why you felt the need to respond. I also think you're mistaken in doing so. Concern bitch is concerned. Fuck her.

    OBTW, never heard of her. Course, I don't read Salon, so....

    Hey, Joan Walsh - I bet you're reading this. And, yeah, you should be VERY afraid. Because all us redneck, right wing, tea-fucking rat bagger anarchists are comin' after you. HARD. Because - racist.

    Have a nice day, bitch.

  26. The Late P Brooks   12 years ago

    I imagine the inside of Joan Walsh's head to be like one of those backwoods hoarder's barns occasionally visited by the American Pickers guys. Filled to the brim with broken dolls, wrecked plows, rocking chairs with no seats, and old moldy horse collars.

  27. The Late P Brooks   12 years ago

    also, DRINK!

  28. Old Man With Candy   12 years ago

    If there's anything more boring and useless than this kind of insider blog-war, I haven't found it yet. Fortunately. Do people really give a shit?

  29. JW   12 years ago

    Filled to the brim with broken dolls, wrecked plows, rocking chairs with no seats, and old moldy horse collars.

    You are the wind beneath my wings.

  30. The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc   12 years ago

    You didn't answer her implied question, Welch: are you now or have you ever been a RACIST?!

  31. Hopfiend   12 years ago

    It's not entirely that Walsh lacks intelligence (though that is absolutely in doubt), it's that she lacks imagination (A much greater handicap for sure.)

  32. Warty   12 years ago

    I tried making it through her column, but it was tiresome beyond belief and I got distracted by shiny things. How do you make it all the way through this kind of stupid bullshit, Matt? Adderall? Ritalin? Ritterol?

    1. Episiarch   12 years ago

      Cocaine, obviously. Did you see this Sunday's Boardwalk Empire when Al Capone does cocaine and tommy-guns a dude? That's Matt.

    2. Hugh Akston   12 years ago

      John Ritter.

      1. Episiarch   12 years ago

        Krysten Ritter?

        1. The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc   12 years ago

          The Bitch in Apartment 23?

  33. Stormy Dragon   12 years ago

    I'm neither "angry" nor "right,"

    "Angry Right Admits They're Wrong on Government Shutdown"

  34. Irish   12 years ago

    It's interesting that Joan Walsh is accusing you of racism when her web site published an article asking if Eric Holder is Obama's inner nigger.

    NEVER FORGET!

    1. Warty   12 years ago

      EVERYBODY'S SOMEONE ELSE'S NIGGER

      Thanks for getting that high school piece of shit stuck in my head. Dick.

    2. The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc   12 years ago

      UPDATE, Saturday morning

      Since Salon and I have received a lot of feedback, some of it very upset, about this article, I'd like to take the time to respond.

      First I want to express my extreme admiration for the president and for the attorney general, which I have stated publicly and to them personally. My autographed copy of "Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance" is one of my most cherished possessions.

      But I'm one of you! I swear! Look, I even have my Little Red Book autographed by the Dear Leader!

      1. Irish   12 years ago

        My autographed copy of "Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance" is one of my most cherished possessions.

        Progressivism totally isn't a religion. They just assure each other they aren't heretics by pointing out that they've studied their belief system's central books.

        IN NO WAY IS THIS A RELIGION.

        1. Invisible Finger   12 years ago

          Do cults have to be religions?

          1. PapayaSF   12 years ago

            No, in the sense that a cult can be non-religious (e.g. Charles Manson). If the cult has a spiritual/religious focus, though, then the difference is that cults are small and/or young and religions are larger and older. Generally all religions start as cults.

        2. Michael S. Langston   12 years ago

          It's also part of their MO to keep believing themselves superior to others - you see, what they did there was "admit a mistake" - which is all they want of their opponents. & since the've done it - then their opponents are surely capable of simply admitting how wrong they are about everything.

          & the fact they cannot admit it - just shows how much better they are compared to their opponents.

          & by devaluing their opponents completely, it'll be much easier to do "what's necessary" later.

          Afterall - all those people they're targeting deserve it - just like those the IRS targeted. They're just a bunch of anti-intellectual, anti-voter, anti-freedom, sexists, gay bashers, homophobes, anarchists, anti-government, racists, etc/etc/etc

  35. MikeP   12 years ago

    What's wrong with being racy?

    1. Son of Anarchy   12 years ago

      Money talks and bullshit walks.

  36. Winston   12 years ago

    Jeez why don't these self hating white liberals just kill themselves and leave their money to some black family in the ghetto? Or do they still need to use their straight white euromale cisprivilege in order to defeat straight white euromale cisprivilege?

    1. PapayaSF   12 years ago

      Yes, the Revolution needs a vanguard, and members of the vanguard will need special powers and comforts before perfect communism can be achieved.

  37. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

    Joan Walsh can go fuck herself.

    1. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

      HM, fuck herself with what is the question.

      1. PapayaSF   12 years ago

        May I suggest her autographed copy of "Dreams from My Father"?

  38. David R   12 years ago

    When Joan Walsh talks, you know that the gossip sign has been lit. Always disturbing is the giddy quivering joy she seems to take in calling someone a racist. For whatever reason, the Salon newsletter shows up in my box every morning, headlines chock full of exclamation points and juicy temptations like "A Feminist's Secret Sex Fantasy", "I Chase Unavailable Men", and "What I Learned from a Witch Doctor". All part of a broad-spectrum pornographic product stream. Matt could find the attention flattering, since this might be how she flirts.

    1. Irish   12 years ago

      Matt could find the attention flattering, since this might be how she flirts.

      I have heard it said that a Joan Walsh can only breed if it does so under a blood moon while Bill Clinton looks on in voyeuristic contentment.

      Its orgasm consists of moaning 'RACISM' in various different tones of voice, and when it is done it's actually the man that becomes pregnant so that the gender roles might be subverted.

  39. BoxyBoxyBoxyBoxy   12 years ago

    You know who else made absurd accusations against a large and disparate section of the population?

  40. Andrew S.   12 years ago

    Matt, you're a white male who holds non-leftist political views. You're automatically a racist.

    1. Winston   12 years ago

      This. Sorry Matt, no matter how much you bash the CSA or those Paul newsletters or praise MLK you aren't going to escape the racist label if you are a libertarian.

  41. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

    Dear Matt,

    As a linguist, I can tell you that one of the most accessible tools of corpus linguistics for laymen is Google Book's Ngram viewer. According to Google, the phrase "calling him out" reached its historical peak in the 1890s, with only a slight upward trend from 1990-2000 (the heyday of gangsta rap; in case anyone didn't get the message, gangsta rap died the day Ice Cube stared in his first family comedy film).

    So what on Earth is this daffy bitch going on about?

    1. Hugh Akston   12 years ago

      Look dude. I think Joan Walsh knows a little more than you do about what is offensive to black people. She's a Democrat.

      1. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

        Joan Walsh please!

      2. PapayaSF   12 years ago

        +Yo One Ya' know what I'm sayin'?

    2. Sidd Finch   12 years ago

      Remove the cap C and the Ngram is much better.

      1. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

        You're right.

        1. Sidd Finch   12 years ago

          "called" is even better.

    3. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

      You're not a linguist.

      You're a racist.

      Know your place.

  42. The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc   12 years ago

    I think she's backing down:

    OK, I give up. @mleewelch meant no harm. He just heard similar "cadence" in an Obama speech and a Snoop Dogg song. http://t.co/4EPZDpxJWC

    ? Joan Walsh (@joanwalsh) October 2, 2013

    [removed][removed]

    1. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

      He just heard similar "cadence" in an Obama speech and a Snoop Dogg song.

      So? Snoop Dogg was one of the most brilliant lyrical orators of Rap. He was highly respected for his "flow" i.e. a combination of rhythmic sense and meter. Just because you're an ignorant snob who assumes there is no artistic merit in such a "vulgar" (in every sense of the word) art form as gangsta rap, doesn't mean that Welch shares your low opinion of it.

    2. Scruffy Nerfherder   12 years ago

      I heard Joan Walsh is a member of the patriarchy.

  43. OldMexican   12 years ago

    Re: Matt Welch,

    With the classic musta-touched-a-nerve! formulation popular with juvenile polemicists everywhere, her new piece is titled "Angry right gets mad when you accuse it of race-baiting!"

    Serves you right for arguing with idiots, Matt. Even pasty-faced, horse-toothed idiots like Walsh.

    1. Tony   12 years ago

      Matt takes offense to your pasty-faced slur.

      1. OldMexican   12 years ago

        Re: Tony,

        I'll let Matt tell me that himself, thank you very much. Doesn't matter if you fancy yourself one, I don't believe for even a second that you're a mentalist.

        1. Tony   12 years ago

          Fair enough. It's possible that Matt and his cohort of equally pearlescent libertarians rarely see anyone darker than Nick Gillespie in everyday life. Similarly Veronique de Rugy and all other libertarian women may be so encased in the little libertarian clique as to not notice that they're the only ones wearing Ayn Rand's hairstyle.

          1. OldMexican   12 years ago

            Re: Tony,

            Fair enough. It's possible that Matt and his cohort of equally pearlescent libertarians rarely see anyone darker than Nick Gillespie in everyday life

            I don't find that issue important enough to give it any of my time. I only care that Walsh is ugly and wouldn't fuck her even with a lent dick.

            1. Tony   12 years ago

              Might as well dish out some sexism too.

              You know, just to put on our best faces while expressing outrage that we're being called bigots.

            2. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

              Ugly may be harsh. I don't know, under the right circumstances, you know, I'd knock her. Stick it in her mouth just when she'd start talking smart. Just like a rap song.

  44. Tony   12 years ago

    Libertymike:

    I'm paraphrasing: Racism will not go away until white people start calling black people niggers more. Read it for yourself.

    Can't tell if you guys always ignore this shit because it's beneath contempt or because affordable health coverage is actually more contemptible to you. I'll charitably assume the former.

    1. Libertymike   12 years ago

      Tony, do you think it is virtuous to identify by one's race? To subordinate one's individuality to one's race?

      It is manifestly racist to take pride in one's race-as if racial content is somehow, per se, goodness or beauty.

      Blackness, in and of itself, as a matter of logic and as a matter of anarchi-free enterprise-individualism, does not confer special status; rather, those who espouse such are themselves irredeemably racist monsters.

      1. Tony   12 years ago

        Who says anyone subordinates one's individual identity to race? Is that even possible? What you're referring to is treating one's race as part of one's identity at all.

        You said the way to end racism is for white people to call black people niggers more. I never said racists were self-aware.

        1. Irish   12 years ago

          I never said racists were self-aware.

          Yeah, you don't even realize you are one. Why don't you go tell a black guy how lucky he is to have white liberals like you looking out for him? Truly it is the white progressive's burden!

          Who says anyone subordinates one's individual identity to race? Is that even possible?

          Why don't you ask all the people whose only come back to legitimate criticism of Barack Obama is to call them racists? Why don't you ask white people like American who want to kick Hispanics out of the country? Why don't you ask low income black people who are poorly educated and vote Democrat because that's what they're 'supposed' to do? Why don't you ask all the people who call black conservatives and libertarians Uncle Toms?

          It seems to me that all of those people have subordinated their individuality to their race. Which is, you know, what racism is.

          1. Tony   12 years ago

            Why don't you go tell a black guy how lucky he is to have white liberals like you looking out for him?

            Because he obviously already knows this, since he almost certainly votes for the same politics I do.

            Why don't you ask all the people whose only come back to legitimate criticism of Barack Obama is to call them racists?

            Because that's not what happens. Plenty of legitimate criticism of the president is not called racist. That it happens to mostly come from liberals is not their problem to deal with. (Hint: slurring him with "community organizer" is not legitimate criticism.)

            Racism is subordinating other people's individuality to race. It's not even possible for one to do that to oneself as far as I can figure.

          2. Libertymike   12 years ago

            Note how Tony twists what I posted. I did not write "the way to end racism is for white people to call black people niggers more."

            Like most racists, Tony is not beneath deliberate distortion.

            Racists, first and foremost, are people who support law or policy predicated upon race. Thus, racists are people who support the following:

            (1) racial set-asides;

            (2) racial quotas;

            (3) affirmative action;

            (4) race-conscious criteria in the employment hiring context;

            (5) race-conscious criteria in the higher education admittance context;

            (6) racial solidarity voting in the elective office context;

            (7) demanding, gathering, maintaining and using racial information;

            (8) demanding that the state designate a given temporal period as "X history month";

            (9) demanding that the state prosecute certain individuals of one race because they had the temerity to defend themselves against the brutish and thuggish actions of another race; and

            (10) racist gas bags like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Maxine Waters and Joan Walsh.

            1. Libertymike   12 years ago

              A truly self actualized individual rejects race and has nothing but contempt for those who think it confers something special.

              1. Libertymike   12 years ago

                The President is a rank, thuggish racist.

                If he is not a racist, why did he patronize the racist church of Rev. Jeremiah Wright?

                If he is not a racist, why did he interject himself in the Skip Gates affair and the hoodlum, racist Trayvon Martin case yet refuse to do the same in the thousands of black on white assaults and other acts of criminal aggression while he has been the Racist-in-Chief?

                If he is not racist, why has he not released his college and law school records, particularly his applications and grades?

                1. Tony   12 years ago

                  If you're not a vile racist shithead, why do you give a fuck about any of this? I'm just going to assume I'm being played. It's either that or the Republican party's ongoing collapse has you in rare form.

  45. OldMexican   12 years ago

    Re: Tony,

    Says the person in one of the most insular (not to mention racially uniform) political cults in the world.

    Talk about slurs, yours takes the cake for moronic and inaccurate.

    When you're a minority you identify heavily with that minority attribute.

    Speak for yourself.

    Being gay is extremely important to me.

    And so you did speak for yourself.

    By the way, I find it funny that you find the fact that you were born a certain way important. Maybe that's the only attribute you have that you feel you can flaunt, in lieu of actual achievements.

    1. Tony   12 years ago

      I don't flaunt anything. Recognizing a vital aspect of my identity is important to my identity is not flaunting. Dominant majorities have trouble realizing that they're doing the exact same thing simply by existing. It's just that they're considered the default, so it's not noticed as going against any grain (they are the grain).

  46. GILMORE   12 years ago

    "it's ludicrous to suggest that I would think even for a second that the phrase "Calling him out" is "gangsta rap talk." Why?"

    Why? WHY???

    Silly Whiteboy = by not being a progressive liberal who must constantly turn every discussion about how definitely NOT RACIST!! they are, and how UNDOUBTABLY RACIST their opponents are, you have left yourself sadly the victim of the Never Fail - Rhetorical Device = "How often do you beat your wife?" you are racist by default by virtue of the rhetorical game Joan chooses to play (presumably because she is terrified of actual black people)... fighting it is hopeless. Also = any black people who think you make more sense than she does? deluded self haters, all. sigh. Im probably racist too, even though i live in a dense urban ethic neighborhood, while mrs Enlightened probably has an electrified fence around her suburban crib and sends her kids to racially cleansed private schools

    1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

      I just don't give a shit anymore. I'm not a racist, a sexist, or otherwise intolerant or bigoted. I grow weary of the people who think that a massive government doesn't cause an order of magnitude more problems than it solves, but I pity and fear them for their ideas, not because they're spoiled brats or anything. Okay, maybe I do have one negative bias.

      1. GILMORE   12 years ago

        one must see through the superficial nature of what is meant by accusations of being 'racist', and realize its simply a shorthand means of stating one's own self-evident moral superiority = one wich makes any debate about specific topics at hand meaningless. Its a shortcut to avoid any kind of reasoned debate about a topic. Once you've been labeled 'racist', any case you make is stained with inherent illegitimacy - regardless of what it is you are saying. And it is worth noting that this rhetorical device is almost exclusively employed by upper middle class white people against other middle class white people- which should be unsurprising. No one else really cares very much about being labeled as such.

  47. Tejicano   12 years ago

    Wait a freaking minute - Joan Walsh is a WHITE chick?

    Since when did she get an OK to speak out for all non-white people? Does she think they are too stupid, not represented well enough within her group, or just incapable for speaking for themselves?

    Who is the fucking racist here?

  48. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

    What Matt Welch Should Have Said

    Say my name, bitch, I'm Matt Welch
    Ima gonna fuck you up so hard you'll piss yourself
    I'll beat you like King Edward beat the Welsh

    You gonna make shit up, call me a racist?
    Of all the lefty lies, that one's the basest
    That insult's almost as ugly as your face is

    If you can fart while chewing gum I'd be surprised
    The shit you say's so dumb, it's not even lies
    You should wash out your mouth with soap, instead of eating more pies.

    Stop polishing every Democrat's knob
    And flogging every dead horse they tell you to flog
    If you heard a dog-whistle, that confirms you're a dog.

    1. H. ReardEn   12 years ago

      Who sings? David Lee or Sammy?

  49. Shmurphy   12 years ago

    Man, disregard this statist cunt. Who cares what her dumb ass has to say?

  50. Irish   12 years ago

    Shut the fuck up, American.

  51. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

    butthurt

    The irony is delicious.

  52. Killazontherun   12 years ago

    True that in the 20s, classical liberalism had no appeal to the trendy youth of the time who flitted back and forth between Marxist and Fascist parties. Says nothing about the veracity of the creed; after all, Von Mises was the most accurate and foresighted man of his time on the meltdown that was coming, unlike Keynes who lost his ass, he planned ahead.

  53. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

    It happens to all mutlicrualists

    What does believing in the validity of more than one cross as a symbol of Christianity have to with anything?

  54. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

    I like how you've just proven you don't understand what lyrical meter is.

  55. Irish   12 years ago

    Other sample Snoop lyrics:

    Six fo' five was the time on the clock,
    When me and my homey bailed in the parking lot.
    The scene looked strange and it felt like a set up
    Better not be, cause if it is, they're getting lit up.
    Oh here they come from the back in they 'lacs.
    I'm checkin for the gats they strap, so whats up black?
    Chill, lets hit a deal, if it aint up to what you feel then grab your
    steel.
    Right, so, what you motherfuckers gonna come at me with?
    Hope you ain't wantin' none of my grip.
    Cause you can save that shit. Guess what they told me?
    'We give you 20 G's if you snitch on your homey,
    We'll put you in a home, and make your life plush,
    Oh yeah, but you got to sell dope for us."
    Hmmm, let me think about it
    Turned my back and grabbed my gat and guess what I told him before I shot
    it:
    'If you don't quit, yeah, if you don't stop, yeah, I'm lettin' my gat pop'

    Cause it's 1-8-7 on an undercover cop

    I like that you choose a dumb party song of his instead of one of his many songs about street life, gangs and drugs, all of which are very high quality.

    I also like that you think someone named Heroic MULATTO is white.

  56. Killazontherun   12 years ago

    I really shouldn't have to point this out, but that's what the 'classical' descriptor is there for, to denote a difference from the non qualified form of the word.

  57. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

    Hey! I was about to use that White privilege I got, jerk.

    And the point is, he could have been rapping the phone book, I was commenting on the musical rhythm of how he spoke the lyrics, not what the lyrics mean.

    I guess he never learned about poetic meter in teacher college.

    When Welch refereed to "cadence", i.e. rhythmic flow of a sequence of sounds or words, that should have been clear.

  58. Irish   12 years ago

    This song is great.

    Old Snoop was awesome.

  59. Killazontherun   12 years ago

    Being the good natured son of a bitch I am, I'll help you out here.

    Liber

    http://goo.gl/0eSOEe

    In ancient Roman religion and mythology, Liber ("the free one"), also known as Liber Pater ("the free Father") was a god of viniculture and wine, fertility and freedom. He was a patron deity of Rome's plebeians and was part of their Aventine Triad

    That's right, the youth forsook wine in the 20s for Nazism and Communism.

  60. Tony   12 years ago

    Whites are already showing extreme grievance even at the prospect. When whites are a minority, prepare for the grievance tsunami.

  61. Heroic Mulatto   12 years ago

    and become a Democrat.

    Thems fightin' words, bub.

  62. Killazontherun   12 years ago

    He's not the only true believer here, er, Name.

    You know what I believe? I believe the children are our future. And, if you teach them well and let them lead the way, show them all the beauty they possess inside, you give them a sense of pride to make it easier. We should let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be. That's the greatest lesson, or love, of all. If you think that is idiotic, well, then mister, I'll take that bet and double it with nothing.

  63. Killazontherun   12 years ago

    Yeah, and English soldiers no longer don redcoats. It's an historical analogy.

  64. Libertymike   12 years ago

    Grievances?

    How about the fact that a white person is what, 10 or 12 times more likely to be assaulted by a black person than the reverse?

  65. Irish   12 years ago

    Shut the fuck up, American.

  66. Andrew S.   12 years ago

    I agree. I decided long ago never to walk in anyone's shadow. If I fail, if I succeed, at least I'll live as I believe. Because no matter what they take from me, they can't take away my dignity.

  67. Libertymike   12 years ago

    Sounds like a popular song.

  68. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

    We had to sing that song in Church once for something I can't remember. Whatever. I wanted to go full blown Satan then and I still get up in the middle of the night enraged having been forced to sing it.

    Actually, all I did was move my lips while I swore in my head.

  69. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

    Killazontherun, that's a phenomenon no one hammers at enough in my opinion. The one where the left constantly got it wrong. For example, when you read the unification of Italy all the worst policies and decisions came from liberals.

    They're idiots hence they were easily attracted to commies and fascists. Tony thinks conservatives are reactionaries but conservatives rarely get fooled - they seem to grasp the human condition better than liberals. More importantly, they accept the BAD traits of the human condition. Liberals want to erase it as if they don't exist hence all these moronic laws and policies - affirmative action, obsession with race etc.

  70. Tony   12 years ago

    My admitted strain of misogyny is something I'm working on.

    It's the first of the 12 steps. Can you guys get to it?

  71. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

    "Mignia, encora quista'ca con personality." Carbone, Goodfellas. (My Italian Sicilian dialect spelling is limited). Great line nonetheless.

    What's with the 'left-libertarian' fetish this dude has?

  72. Libertymike   12 years ago

    Actually, I love the tune, particularly George Benson's original version.

  73. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

    "We had to sing that song in Church once"

    For a second, I thought you meant that Snoop Dogg song. Not that there's anything wrong with being an Episcopalian.

  74. Rufus J. Firefly   12 years ago

    I don't think I've ever met an Episcopalian. Do they speak English?

  75. PapayaSF   12 years ago

    Another "racist" fact.

  76. Tony   12 years ago

    You're not supporting the thesis guys.

  77. Old Man With Candy   12 years ago

    Not a dude. Mary Stack.

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