Brickbat: No Rights for You

Live and Let Die

Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, Interim Sheriff John Robshaw says law enforcement officers and military personnel are the only individuals who should be allowed to have fully automatic weapons. So he has refused to sign any Class III weapons permits since he took office in 2012. Thomas F. Braddock Jr. is one of the people whose permit Robshaw has refused to sign for, blocking his attempt to buy a fully automatic weapon. He says the refusal won't keep him from acquiring the weapon he wants. It will just force him to go through a more lengthy and expensive legal process.

Comments

[Matrix]

Progtard: Why do you need an automatic weapon?
Me: I'll give you the same response you usually give us... FYTW!

[Doctor Whom]

Progtard: You don't need an automatic weapon.

Me: I don't need a whiny control freak who tries to run my life because he's shat all over his own, but here you are nonetheless.

[db]

When you buy an automatic weapon there's a little box where you have to write your reason for owning it. I always write "All lawful purposes".

In other words, "because I want it, and it's no concern of yours what I do with it."

[Zeb]

You don't need a car, you don't need a smartphone, you don't need that video game console, you don't need food that tastes good, you don't need to have sex, you don't need to get your hair cut, you don't need to live in a nice house, you don't need more than two sets of clothes.

That's my usual response. There is very little that one actually needs.

[Live Free or Diet]

Dead link.

[darius404]

Try this.

[Live Free or Diet]

Thank you!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Maybe Thomas F. Braddock Jr. should cowboy up and join the active military or law enforcement. That would make him magically qualified to own this particular piece of property.

[thom]

Aren't "retired law enforcement" usually exempt from a lot of gun control laws? Some sheriff somewhere should just deputize every adult in his jurisdiction for an hour or a day or something.

[darius404]

Why do I "need" an automatic weapon? Why do they "need" to deny me ownership of an automatic weapon? Do they suspect me of intending to commit a crime with one? No? Then they have no "need" to deny me ownership.

[Almanian!]

The desire to own Weapons of Mass Destruction like machine guns is a symptom of violent, antisocial and psychotic beliefs. People with violent , antisocial and psychotic beliefs should not be allowed to own Weapons of Mas Destruction like machine guns. The fact that you desire to own such a Weapon of Mass Destruction is prima facie evidence that you should not be permitted to own such a weapon.

QED, hth

[Live Free or Diet]

This reasoning applies then to anyone wishing to join the military or police, right?

[wareagle]

it probably also applies to anyone who engages in first-person shooter video games. We're all killers in waiting, our pathology separated only by degree.

[LTC(ret) John]

What makes the grass grow?

Blood! Blood ! Blood!

What do we want to do?

Kill! Kill! Kill!

[db]

Yeah, except I am probably the least violent person I know, and I own several automatic weapons. But evidently I'm just some sort of weird outlier to my liberal acquaintances.

[Zeb]

Automatics are very expensive to acquire, no? I would think that that would mean that most people who acquire them legally have decent stable lives that they would not want to fuck up by doing something criminal.

[db]

Pretty much. Most owners of (legal) machineguns are professionals of some sort or business owners. We like to be sure of staying within the law.

[Jose Chung]

So, automatic weapons are classified as WMDs? By that reasoning Bush is vindicated over his decision to send troops into Iraq because we know, for a fact, that Saddam had machine guns.

Just because you use the word multiple times and capitalize it doesn't make it an accurate descriptor for what you're actually talking about, as frightening as it might be to some people. Putting an automatic weapon in the same destructive class as an aerosol nerve agent or nuclear weapon is a sloppy, disingenuous, and outright lazy way to attempt to get your point across.

[darius404]

He's being sarcastic, not serious. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell if you're not familiar with the posters here. Gun control people are beyond parody.

[SIV]

This is common. I'd have to form a trust to own any Class III weapons in my gun-friendly state because we have an "urban" PD in my county.

[wingnutx]

Exactly.

I use a trust even here in Arizona, so my wife can possess the items.

[AlgerHiss]

A full-auto firearm is a really neat piece of machinery. But if you've ever fired one, the first couple of things you learn are that?

?they are not very accurate at all. It's probably where the phrase "spray and pray" came from. (You pray you hit something.)

?and?

?pull the trigger for 3 or 4 seconds, and you may have just spent $50. They are extremely expensive to operate in terms of ammunition used.

As for criminal activity, the infamous North Hollywood shootout: The only people that were killed were the ones that had full-auto firearms.

[Live Free or Diet]

pull the trigger for 3 or 4 seconds, and you may have just spent $50.

Yep! A friend of mine has an old Thompson. It's easy to go through more than a box of .45ACP in maybe 15 seconds, even having to switch magazines in the middle and being careful about it. I only mess with it when I have a bunch of old ammo I want to rotate out.

[db]

They are as accurate as the shooter. I can place a magazine dump from an UZI submachinegun into an 8 inch circle at 30 yards. Double taps spaced at .5" are easy with an M16.

It's all about trigger control and shooting stance. Anyone who tells you machineguns are inherently inaccurate is not much of a shooter or hasn't shot one.

[dinkster]

Well a sub machine gun is not a high caliber battle rifle.

[entropy]

True. But neither are most automatic weapons. Assault rifles like the AK or AR use 'intermediate' power rifle rounds, like the .223 remmington and the 7.62x39mm for that very reason.

Firing full auto with .308 winchester would be another matter. .50 BMG would have to be mounted to something heavy. Those are full power rifle rounds.

[db]

A 7.62x39 AK has a rather sharp recoil pulse which can make it harder to control. An AR platform weapon is much smoother by definition. But with practice most people can become proficient witg handling automatic weapons. It's the folks who get to shoot one once or twice and hold the trigger down who come away witg the impression that the guns are inherently uncontrollable.

[db]

I've shot 7.62x51mm machineguns before and it's only a matter of degree. Once again, the skills can be developed witg practice.

[Live Free or Diet]

"These weapons are capable of delivering hundreds of rounds per minute," said Robshaw. "Why in the world a civilian would need that type of weapon is beyond me."

Why would the police need that kind of weapon?
"Civilian" is a very hostile word, indicating someone regarded by members of a society as not belonging. It means "outsider."

"My belief is civilians don't need them, and if it costs me my job, I don't care."

And it should cost him that.

[Ted S.]

Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

Haven't these fuckers heard of the Peelian principles?

[Live Free or Diet]

Nice. I hadn't. Thank you.

[sarcasmic]

The only principle they know is 'might makes right.'

Oh, and the FYTW principle of course.

[Ted S.]

Technically, wouldn't those be the same thing?

[sarcasmic]

Yeah. Pretty much.

[LTC(ret) John]

And "officer safety" - as long as they go home each shift end, its all good.

[Heroic Mulatto]

"These weapons are capable of delivering hundreds of rounds per minute," said Robshaw. "Why in the world a civilian would need that type of weapon is beyond me."

The reason a "civilian would need that type of weapon," Robshaw, is to kill tyrants like you.

Why don't you let that concept perculate a while in that simian-like forehead of yours? By the time the revolution comes, you might just have an epiphany while we are leading you to the gallows.

[sarcasmic]

The domesticated descendents of the free people who once populated this country will never revolt.

[Ted S.]

Why are you insulting simians?

[The Late P Brooks]

I wonder what Bob Levy thinks of "shall issue".
Probably thinks it makes us look too radical and unwilling to compromise.

[SugarFree]

I'm sure--just like that scurrilous judge that wouldn't rubber-stamp .08 DUI convictions--dunphy's heroic police union is fighting to get this scofflaw removed from office.

The only reason I can't find evidence they are is because cop-hating mumble mumble.

[Ted S.]

You obviously don't understand the totality of the fact pattern. And you're just a member of the bigorati.

HTH.

[Mainer2]

YAWN

Troll-o-meter -.01

Smooches

hth

[Zeb]

Uh-oh. Another DUI apologist.

[The Late P Brooks]

the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

That's old fashioned. You can't expect members of the baboon army of occupation to get out nof their cars and walk among the lowly civilian population. Before long, you'll be saying they should park in marked parking spaces and walk all the way across the sidewalk to the donut shop.

[Ted S.]

Then how about

The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.

Yeah, that one seems to have gone out the window too. 🙁

[UnCivilServant]

But... then they wouldn't get to use that physical force, which was the whole motivating factor to become a cop!

[Fist of Etiquette]

The guy sure is going to a lot of trouble just to shoot up a school without having to pull the trigger more than once.

[Rich]

"My belief is civilians don't need them, and if it costs me my job, I don't care."

Didn't some Pope say something like that about crossbows?

Seriously, good riddance.

[db]

Good riddance. There are plenty of other people willing to take your position. There are Sheriffs in PA who are very good about this. And only a few who aren't.

He's also.missing the point that a corporation or trust can buy a machinegun and he can't say a damn word about it. This man is a fool and deserves to be voted out of office.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"He's not totally prevented from getting the weapon," said Robshaw. "If he and others want to go through the trust fund process, they can. That's on somebody else's head."

It sounds as though Robshaw, because of personal issues, is unable to discharge the duties of his office.

[db]

He's arguing using a long-discredited notion that a certifying law engorcement officer can be held liable if he signed off on NFA paperwork and the gun was subsequently used in commission of a crime. All the Form 5320.4 or 5320.1 requires is that the LEO certify he has no information that would preclude ownership by the applying individual or that the applicant would use it for other than lawful purposes.

[The Late P Brooks]

a certifying law engorcement officer can be held liable

Yeah, right.

[Stormy Dragon]

Someone should point out what happened to nearby Montgomery County, PA a while back when their sheriff thought the same thing. Ending up costing the county a large amount of money when they got sued because CLEOs in Pennsylvania aren't allowed to refuse signing for a qualified applicant.

[creech]

Can't be much of a sheriff. No stars on his collar. My county sheriff is a four star, and she's auctioning off an AR-15 to boot!

[db]

Are you in Chester County? I their Sheriff is a great woman.

[db]

I *hear*...

[Timrek]

I don't really see the need for a fully automatic rifle except for military use, BUT I fully support a person's right to own one without undue government restrictions. Personally, I find autos far too un-accurate to be enjoyable. A Les Baer modified H-bar AR-15 is much better. I've been able to put five rounds into a groundhog at 150 yards while standing. Satisfying and cheaper on ammo.

On the other hand I fully believe that any weapon or technology, lethal or non-lethal, that is available to police agencies, federal or local, should be fully legal to own with minimal restrictions. (i.e. I support an instant background check in which the information is not stored past 10 or so days to weed out those previously convicted of a violent crime) Only the real military, not SWAT or Federal agents such as ATF or FBI, should have access to weaponry that is illegal for public purchase. AND the Posse Comitatus Act should be strictly enforced.

Any other situation gives law enforcement more rights than everyone else and this is wrong both by way of the idea of natural rights and constitutional law.

Benjamin