Obama Really Means To Close Guantanamo This Time, Record Eurozone Unemployment, Head Spy Denies Boston Bombing Lapses: P.M. Links

• 

  Ewan Munro

  The detention camp at Guantanamo will be closed, vows President Obama, and this time he really, really means it. The promise comes as inmates continue a hunger strike intended to get them the hell out of the place one way or another.

• Eurozone unemployment has hit an all-time high, averaging 12.1 percent, though with a wide range of rates from country to country. On the other hand, inflation is down, so anybody with a few euros still in their pockets …
• There were no lapses by America's spook agencies, says James Clapper, the director of national intelligence. This is really interesting, considering that the official inquiry into just that has … umm … yet to reach any conclusions.
• Weak income and spending figures suggest the U.S. economy is stalling, once again, even as flight to the underground economy makes official figures increasingly unreliable.
• Apparently trying to see just how much of the newly legal marijuana trade they can drive back to the black market, Colorado legislators are considering taxing the stuff in excess of 25 percent.
• The Food and Drug Administration plans to investigate the effects of caffeine on children. Note: If you bastards give espresso to my seven-year-old, he's yours for the duration.
• George Zimmerman has, for some reason, chosen not to raise a "stand your ground" defense to head off a second-degree murder trial in the death of Trayvon Martin.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

The promise comes as inmates continue a hunger strike intended to get them the hell out of the place one way or another.

Don't they know there are starving kids in North Korea?

[Arnold Rimmer]

Not anymore, they were eaten last week.

[A Serious Man]

There were no lapses by America's spook agencies, says James Clapper, the director of national intelligence. This is really interesting, considering that the official inquiry into just that has ... umm ... yet to reach any conclusions.

RACIST!

[Episiarch]

Weak income and spending figures suggest the U.S. economy is stalling, once again, even as flight to the underground economy makes official figures increasingly unreliable.

But...but...without the bailouts it would have been so much worse!

[JW]

"Gentlemen. There's only one thing left to do. Operation Electric Boogaloo."

[hamilton]

this time he really, really means it.

Classic Obama. Claim powerlessness, blame Congress, yell at evil symbol of oppression. Work to have symbol removed. Keep oppression, and streamline the process.

[Brett L]

I put this up on facebook with the caption: "Obama to Libs: C'mon, Charlie Brown, kick the football again. You can trust me."

So far, I get disillusioned comments who can't quite figure out why they shouldn't still love him.

[hamilton]

Show them this view from Chomsky.

[Rich]

That's pretty good.

[Brett L]

I don't want anyone to stroke out.

[Zeb]

Nice. He may be a nutbag, but to his credit Chomsky is no team player. He's actually one of the people who helped start me on the path to libertarian semi-anarchism.

[Loki]

streamline the process

In this case "streamline the process" means compile a kill list and order drone strikes instead of capturing alive.

[$park?]

Who hasn't met their rage quota for the day yet?

Regusters worked at an after-school care program attended by the girl and took the girl out of her classroom by posing as her mother, police said. The woman had said she was taking the girl out to breakfast, according to school officials, who said school policies weren't followed in releasing the girl.

Investigators believe Regusters and the girl then walked a few blocks to a home, where a man was waiting. The girl was blindfolded, was told to remove her clothes and put on an adult-size black T-shirt and was ordered to hide under a bed, authorities said. The girl was sexually assaulted while she was in the home, police said.

[John]

This is where you just let the parents shoot them and the DA make a finding of self defense and move on.

[Libertarian Book Club]

I know critics of home schooling cite socialization as a plus for government schools, but this is not the kind of socialization I think will benefit a child. Still, you gotta break some eggs...

[John]

They always say that but then never give a single concrete example of a home schooled kid being "less socialized" much less suffering for it.

[Zeb]

I'd say some if not many are definitely at least unusually socialized. But so what? Weird people with unconventional backgrounds are often aong the more intelligent and interesting people you meet.

[NeonCat]

Not home-schooled, but if anyone tells me I'm a creepy weirdo I'm going to start telling them I'm differently socialized and their othering is hurtful.

Eventually we'll have our own grievance studies departments.

[Libertarian Book Club]

I imagine this unfortunate government-school kid will be somewhat less social after this.

[Zeb]

That's really not much of an argument against public schools. Are children any more likely to be abducted from government schools than from anywhere else?

In any case, abduction is such a small danger that we should really stick to the real arguments against government run education of which there are plenty.

[Loki]

She [Regusters] was threatened and assaulted in the Philadelphia prison system and has been moved to a Northampton County facility, where she's being held on $4 million bail.

And they say there's no honor among criminals...

[Fist of Etiquette]

Weak income and spending figures suggest the U.S. economy is stalling, once again...

Why the hell wouldn't it?

[Tonio]

Fist, I'm sure that the economy will pick up next year when PPACA kicks in and our workforce will finally have access to affordable healthcare...

[NeonCat]

It's the only thing holding the economy back.

[Agent Rogersz]

I thought the Florida "stand your ground" law primarily provides for an affirmative defense to head off prosecution. It seems he's well beyond that point now.

[tarran]

Considering the judge's hostility in previous hearings, he'd be a fool to have the hearing; she ain't releasing him regardless of what the evidence says; an unsuccessful hearing would either hurt him at trial or at best be neutral.

[Tonio]

IANAL, but my understanding is that Zimmermann's actions didn't meet the test for SYG, even a sympathetic reading of that law.

[tarran]

His case isn't a stand your ground case, which covers a situation where a person has a chance to retreat but doesn't do so.

If Zimmerman is telling the truth, he had no opportunity to retreat; he stepped out of his car to try to read the address he was at to give it to the cops, and was jumped and knocked to the ground and Martin was sitting astride him pummeling him and smashing his head into the concrete. Even here in MA, in that situation, Zimmerman would have been justified using deadly force.

The Stand Your Ground Hearing, so called, is intended to make it harder for the state to try self-defense cases by allowing the defendant to make a self defense case prior to a trial, which if convincing to a judge can result in a summary judgement of not guilty. It doesn't solely apply to 'Stand Your Ground' cases which are a subset of self-defense cases where the victim could have chosen to run away but didn't.

Zimmerman, in claiming self defense, could have demanded the hearing, but it's a foregone conclusion that the judge was going to rule against him anyway.

[Brett L]

That and Zimmerman's lawyer is pretty surely going to come in with a "not guilty" which is far more vindicating than "cannot prosecute due to SYG".

[generic Brand]

Prosecution may be fucking this case up worse than they (I realize it's not the same prosecutors or even the same jurisdiction) did against Casey Anthony. The prosecutor called the defense attorney to the stand earlier today, a move that John said he would never even imagine doing when he was a prosecutor.

I don't know what it is about these sensationalized cases that makes the prosecution over pursue the conviction. I was happy that Casey Anthony got off (and pleased she was not convicted on any serious charges, hiyo!), and I will be just as happy if the same happens for Zimmerman, regardless of either party's actual guilt. These bully tactics by the state are pathetic.

P.S. Sorry to latch on to your comment Brett L; seemed somewhat related when I started ranting 🙂

[Pro Libertate]

I don't see how the prosecution can get a murder conviction here.

[PapayaSF]

Let's hope they can get some after the inevitable post-aquittal riots.

[A Serious Man]

Isn't he alleging simple self-defense and not SYG?

If Martin was bashing his head into the pavement then that he would not have had any way to retreat.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Sure, but I suspect that the reason he didn't ask for a SYG hearing is that it would prolong the trial and give the prosecution a chance to see his strategy, in a framework where he bears the burden of proving self-defense. With a jury, self-defense is presumed unless the prosecution can prove it wasn't, and I guess they want to go straight to that part.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Early earth smelled like Rotten Eggs?

[NeonCat]

Except that egg laying creatures hadn't evolved yet, so really rotten eggs smell like the early earth.

[a better weapon]

Nice.

[gaijin]

so, like hell.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Food and Drug Administration plans to investigate the effects of caffeine on children.

Hopefully they put those experiments on Youtube.

[Agent Rogersz]

Nothing left to cut!

[Archduke Pantsfan]

New Canadian banknotes for you to make fun of.

[Alack]

Government-funded trains and space exploration? They're just rubbing it in our faces, aren't they?

[Tonio]

Canada has a space program? They must be counting the annual boy scout model rocket meet. /snark

[jesse.in.mb]

They built the space arm dude!

[Brett L]

Really? How did they get it to space? I think they built a robot arm. It took 'Murca to get it to space.

[Loki]

...and now it takes the Russians to get to space.

[Pro Libertate]

The U.S. executes Canada's will in a number of ways. For instance, we support an entire sports league just so many Canadians can play in it.

[Tonio]

I know, dude. I was just funnin'

[JW]

Is that all Canada is good for? Robot arms? For hugging you, eh?

[Tonio]

+1 Gay Mountie

[a better weapon]

"SPECIMEN"

That just seems like an odd choice of word to use in the watermark. It makes it sound like a giant $2 piece will erupt from my chest cavity should I accidentally ingest one of these bills.

[robc]

Why would they stamp "Specimen" on all of them?

[Archduke Pantsfan]

But we can no longer do this

[a better weapon]

Had the same thought, why not "EXAMPLE" or "DO NOT DUPLICATE" or "NON-TENDER"

[Heroic Mulatto]

What a "specimen banknote" is.

The more you know.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It looks like your leaders are having a "Heeeere's Johnny!" The Shining moment on those bills.

[NeonCat]

"Heeeere's Johnny, eh?"

[Generic Stranger]

The "eh" completely drains the menace out of that sentence.

Canada: the least menacing people on Earth.

[Zeb]

Unless they're playing hockey.

[Zeb]

Or upset about losing at hockey.

[jesse.in.mb]

Or in a foreign country and mistaken for an American.

[rac3rx]

Canadiastan has ugly money.

[PapayaSF]

Everybody's money just gets uglier and uglier. This is what money should look like. Or this.

[Slammer]

I'd have been a helluva lot more impressed with Jason Collins if he'd have come out as a Libertarian, or a Republican

[a better weapon]

True. I bet there are more LGBT players in the NBA then there are libertarians.

[NeonCat]

Not so many Ls, I think.

[AuH20]

GENDER IS JUST A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT! NOT ALL WOMEN HAVE VAGINAS!

/Angry feminist

[Fist of Etiquette]

...Colorado legislators are considering taxing the stuff in excess of 25 percent.

There's money to be made off the will of the people.

[robc]

I thought there was some CO law that required a tax increase on pot to be passed by voters via referendum.

As its currently taxed at 0%, wouldnt that be an increase?

[Rich]

"FY, Dude, TY."

[Some call me Tim?]

yes, any increase will be subject to referendum.

[Loki]

TABOR.

[AuH20]

Yep. TABOR.

I love them freaking out. "We legalized some activity and can't make money off of it? NOOOOOOOO!"

It fucking drives the Proggies in CO up the wall, but they have yet to be able to get a repeal through, despite every article about it beginning with how evil and horrible and short sighted it was.

[Loki]

TABOR is about the only thing that gives me some hope that CO might not completely turn into East California. If the prog-tards ever do get a repeal through, I'm going to start looking for a job somewhere else.

[hamilton]

Atlantic columnist is pissy because libertarians bitch about the government offering corporate handouts, but don't push for "free-market corporate social responsibility" - meaning, boycotting every corporation that accepts handouts.

But in the age of crony capitalism, libertarians must declare that some means of pursuing profit are immoral and call on executives to reject them. This would create a positive case for capitalism -- arguing that the pursuit of profit, in the context of fair and open competition, helps the whole society. The new corporate social responsibility, redefined for libertarians, must stand athwart crony corporatism yelling "stop."

Reason gets a special mention side-by-side with Club for Growth.

[robc]

libertarians must declare that some means of pursuing profit are immoral and call on executives to reject them.

Dont we do that here on a daily basis?

[robc]

Is this another one of those "bleeding heart libertarian" type articles in which I understand all the words but the sentences dont make any sense? Because from skimming it, thats what I got.

[hamilton]

Basically, yes.

[hamilton]

Although DeRugy just praised it on Twitter.

[John]

But when Libertarians and others refuse to buy from government motors or bank at Bank of America, they are just evil nihilists who want to hurt working people and the country to fail.

This guy would have a stroke if Libertarians actually did we he suggests.

[robc]

I bank at BB&T. I have never owned anything but GM cars, Im probably gonna buy some Japanese thing next time around (unless my Lacrosse can make until google cars are ubiquitous, then I dont have to buy a car again).

Note: I dont think I have ever typed ubiquitous before. I wasnt close to right on my first spelling.

[John Thacker]

This guy would have a stroke if Libertarians actually did we he suggests.

Actually no, he wouldn't. The guy writing isn't a liberal. Tim Carney is, among other things, the former assistant to Bob Novak and senior columnist at the Washington Examiner.

[JW]

ROADZ!!1!!!11!

[Brett L]

Apparently, because we eat food that has been subsidized at some level, we're impure. Its not good enough to be the only voice in the wilderness on this, I guess.

[robc]

Yeah, no corn products ever again.

What ag products arent subsidized, because I dont want to starve to death?

[Brett L]

I suppose we could pay market + n% of subsidies where n% is the clearing rate for farmers who are raising crops without subsidy. In fact, if I could find people selling their crops at this rate, I would gladly purchase from them instead and start Galt Brand bakeries and flour milling.

(Actually, I'd probably be the UL certifier that they aren't taking subsidies and sit between the two parties.)

[Tonio]

"Atlantic columnist is pissy..."

Anything after that was unnecessary.

[#HOLO YOLO]

As usual they are conflating libertarians with Republicans and conservatives. Nothing new here.

[Tonio]

Well, at least Reason got a mention. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they debate you, then you win.

[John Thacker]

Except that the guy in question definitely is a libertarian. And, as Tim usually does, he spent most of the column denouncing Obama and the alliance between Big Government and crony capitalism.

[robc]

And then making the "roadz!!!" argument.

He may normally be good, but this wasnt his shining moment.

[#HOLO YOLO]

Damn, I just realized this was Tim Carney. Shame, his stuff is usually good.

[hamilton]

Hence my posting. I was pretty surprised.

[Calidissident]

As if the majority of liberals boycott every corporation that does something they disagree with (aka 99.9999% of them)?

[Some call me Tim?]

They only boycott when it's about teh gayz.

I don't see them boycotting Whole Foods even though "their CEO is an asshole."

[Loki]

Atlantic columnist is pissy because libertarians bitch about the government offering corporate handouts, but don't push for "free-market corporate social responsibility" - meaning, boycotting every corporation that accepts handouts.

Let's see here, I haven't bought a Fisker, or a Tesla (I drive a Subaru, which AFAIK hasn't gotten a dime in subsidies), or installed Solyndra or any other solar panels on my roof. None of my major appliances are GE (I think). I'm not sure if I have any GE light bulbs or not since it's been a while since I bought them.

But other than high profile cases like those I specifically mentioned it can be pretty fucking hard to know for sure who has or hasn't recieved subsidies; the fucking government hands them out so damn much.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Eurozone unemployment has hit an all-time high, averaging 12.1 percent...

Why the hell wouldn't it?

[Restoras]

Records are made to be broken.

[Alack]

Windows, Restoras. Windows.

[Restoras]

Well that too.

[JW]

Only if it comes without Media Player and offers a choice of browsers.

[Agent Rogersz]

Yeah, you can only buy pre-broken Windows in Europe. It's like the anti-Bastiat express lane.

[Auric Demonocles]

I wonder if there is some sort of connection between Europe's higher level of socialism, government regulation (especially with regards to employment), and taxation levels to its higher unemployment stat. But I doubt it, because that would be crazy.

[Pro Libertate]

It's all the austerity. Chant with me, "Austerity. Austerity. Austerity."

[Auric Demonocles]

It's so austere that it sent unemployment back in time before it was implemented!

[Brett L]

12.1% is the admitted rate. I would double that everywhere but UK, France, and Germany.

[NeonCat]

This is what happens when you don't have empires to send your excess unemployed off to exploit and oppress.

Maybe they can herd them all into Peace Corps style NGOs or something, get them out of Madrid and into the Magreb or something.

[Episiarch]

Apparently trying to see just how much of the newly legal marijuana trade they can drive back to the black market, Colorado legislators are considering taxing the stuff in excess of 25 percent.

I'm just waiting for this to happen in Washington. After liquor privatization, our taxes on liquor are 20.5% plus another charge per liter. A 750ml bottle of rum that "costs" $9.99 ends up being about $16 after taxes. So I expect the same for pot.

[John Thacker]

Didn't the initiative in Washington already fix the tax at some number like 75%?

[Episiarch]

I don't think so, I thought the State Liquor Board had yet to come up with all the guidelines, including tax. Unless you're joking, of course, because 75% is pretty insane.

[John Thacker]

I believe that it did actually fix it at 25% (for both wholesale and retail sales), to be serious.

[Paul.]

And guess which spurned department will be running pot regulations?

[Calidissident]

I thought you lived in New York (or nearby)?

[Episiarch]

I used to live in Manhattan and then Orange County, but now live in Seattle.

[inquisitionssuppositions]

I live in Newburgh. Newburgh sucks more than something that sucks a lot. Unless you mean Orange County, Ca, then I just think about the horrible movie Orange County, which then makes me think about the horrible band Phantom Planet, which also sucks a lot.

[Episiarch]

Newburgh does suck. My house was in Montgomery.

[John]

I like Terrytown and Sleepy Hallow though.

[Restoras]

John those towns are on the other side of the river. May as well be in CA.

[Restoras]

I grew up in Goshen. Newburgh is awful.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Climate change causing massive superstorms. Even on Saturn!

[hamilton]

To be fair, they don't even recycle there, and the net investment in green Saturnian jobs has been pitiful. So you have to expect these kinds of consequences.

[Rich]

+53 moons

[HellsBells]

I think we should immediately relocate vast numbers of environmentalists and green jobs specialists to Saturn to fix things there. It's the only socially responsible thing to do.

[Paul.]

Solar-sterity!

[John]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/.....ec.twitter

A revealing new book from one of the media's longest-serving White House correspondents reports that President Obama surrounds himself only with "idolizers," and top aides make sure that those whose view might "shake him up too much" are shoved aside.

In "Prisoners of the White House, the Isolation of America's Presidents and the Crisis of Leadership," U.S. News correspondent Kenneth T. Walsh also discloses the extent to which Obama relies on polling for his political decisions including a never-before revealed reelection project to investigate the thoughts and feelings of "up for grabs" voters and another dedicated to helping him build a lasting legacy.

The country is in the best of hands.

[Rich]

Presuming you are being sarcastic -- RACIST!

[Rhywun]

I can't imagine any of the last 10 or so presidents being any different in this regard.

[Loki]

[Obama] reads letters from Americans to his wife at night.

That sounds like some God aweful pillow talk. Plus I'm sure he only reads the most fawning over the top fellating letters. So none of mine would make the cut since I always start them off "Dear President Fuckface...".

[Heroic Mulatto]

But Walsh gives Obama credit for trying to stay in touch with his middle class roots and normal Americans, noting that the president has kept his Blackberry to email friends despite concerns by the Secret Service, trolls through news sites and reads letters from Americans to his wife at night.

Tony is Obama on his Blackberry?

Stranger things have happened.

[#HOLO YOLO]

Colorado legislators are considering taxing the stuff in excess of 25 percent

25 percent? Are they high?

[Coeus]

Mask keeps on slippin, slippin:

Mother Jones makes the case for restarting the looney bins and forced instutionalization.

[John]

I think there is a case to be made. As it is we just throw our mentally ill in prison. Is that better?

[robc]

Im fine with forced institution AFTER they have been tried and convicted for a crime.

[Tonio]

Um, if they're found insane it isn't a conviction. Google NGRI.

[robc]

That varies from state to state.

[$park?]

Google NGRI

Racist?!?!

[ant1sthenes]

I don't know about that, but I think a jury plus a judge is better to safeguard against abuse, especially politically motivated abuse.

[Coeus]

Better than them deciding what's sane or not, instead of criminal? Abso-fucking-lutely.

[Tonio]

But remember the cautionary example of soviet psychiatry.

[Coeus]

exactly

[John]

They did for years. Are the mentally ill wandering the streets committing crimes and living in filth or going to prisons where they can't hack it and end up in solitary any better?

Our system right now is horrible and inhumane.

[Coeus]

Are the mentally ill wandering the streets committing crimes and living in filth or going to prisons where they can't hack it and end up in solitary any better?

Better than rounding up citizens who've committed no crime for harboring the wrong ideas? Yes. Tonio mentioned the soviet psychiatry. That is exactly what the proggies want. Remember some of the stuff that came out during the gun-control debate? They're slavering at the thought of it.

[John]

I know that is what they want. And fuck them for making responsible policy impossible.

[AuH20]

Jesus H, not just Soviet psychiatary. Forced sterilization (and any number of women who had kids out of wedlock were considered mentally ill for that reason), Project MK Ultra (I like how CIA Mind Control is considered tinfoil hat when they actually... y'know... tried that), most of the conditioning experiments...

I mean, psychiatry has a really ugly history of people trying to play god to make people better.

[Rhywun]

I thought we mostly just let them free? That seems to be the case here in NY.

[CE]

Let's see.... anti-government rhetoric, violent revenge fantasies, wistful clinging to a bygone age, inability to accept a non-literal reading of historical documents... I think the diagnosis is clear -- send him to the Libertarian wing!

[Episiarch]

There's no slipping, we already know they're fascists.

[SIV]

I'm sure neuroscientists will use their fMRI magic to come up with a mandatory operation to cure all those poor souls.

[#HOLO YOLO]

Shut the fuck up.

[SIV]

Pussy.
What are you going to do with your pseudoscience degree? Barista or fry cook?

[#HOLO YOLO]

"Back in my day, we didn't need no silly genetics. Just look at the skull, it's a Negroid!"

[SIV]

Do you think medical examiners, forensic pathologists and forensic anthropologists do anything different today?

You're scientifically illiterate. I

[Ska]

Already have seen this conversation crop up for a few weeks now.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

"And if we can determine that only insane people disagree with us, we can get them institutionalized!!"

Gee, wonder what the impetus behind all those "conservatives are less socially developed than liberals" studies was?

[Heedless]

Grant money?

It's either that, trolling or stupidity. Probably a mix.

[a better weapon]

All those studies that professors did on their students which I'm sure had great diversity in socio-economic backgrounds, age, and race.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sci.....brain.html

[#HOLO YOLO]

Don't worry, Tulip assured us there's a strict standard of evidence for involuntary commitment.

Fuck, that was a short vacation.

[John]

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor.....z2RrkVzmJL

Global warming pushes women into prostitution.

[$park?]

That's yesterday's news.

[Brandon]

But Instapundit just posted it today...

[Alack]

You're a day late on this one, I'm afraid.

[John]

Such is life.

[Auric Demonocles]

I find it's hard to get anything done on time with all these new prostitutes around.

[NeonCat]

Unfortunately they aren't so much "hot" as sweaty?

[Agent Rogersz]

So, sloppy seconds?

[Fist of Etiquette]

George Zimmerman has, for some reason, chosen not to raise a "stand your ground" defense to head off a second-degree murder trial in the death of Trayvon Martin.

Wouldn't doing so reveal to the prosecution all of the defense's strategies, which could be exploited in the event of a trial? Or am I misremembering this?

[John]

I am pretty sure they are still in the prosecution's case in chief. Zimmerman's attorneys can always bring it up later I would think, unless Florida requires some kind of notice to the prosecution to raise it.

[a better weapon]

When is this thing going to be over with? This is OJ all over again. Pick up the pace, Florida!

[Rich]

The FDA said on Monday it was taking a "fresh look" at the issue in response to the launch of a new caffeinated gum, "and if necessary, will take appropriate action."

They will "try and get a handle on" "what may be termed" "a potential problem". If "mistakes might have been made" "responsibility will be taken".

[Coeus]

Has there ever been an "investigation" by a government entity that didn't result in them taking more power and making more bullshit rules?

[tarran]

Yes.

The Bush I admin looked into taxing investment income earned by permanent life insurance policies and walked away from the shitstorm that would have resulted if they had gone ahead and made them taxable.

[Coeus]

Holy shit. That needs a Wikipedia entry.

[tarran]

Everyone should get an IUL while they are young and in good health. If you put enough money into it, it *will* pay off big when you need a loan or run into some disability.

[Brandon]

IUL?

[Rich]

Serious question: What does the FDA actually do?

[Coeus]

Their original mission was to keep people from mixing their peas in their mash potatoes (not kidding).

[Rich]

Apparently they were not "given the authority" to enforce even *that*.

[Heedless]

I know they make life really difficult for scientists working with animals. Not that they're particularly malicious or incompetent, just that they have the power to close down a university's biology research for years if we don't follow their guidelines on animal research. As a result, Animal Services doesn't just house and feed, they have oversight power. You can guess whose convenience the system serves.

Still not nearly as bad as the goddamn DEA though.

[Auric Demonocles]

The detention camp at Guantanamo will be closed, vows President Obama

This should be a quick one for him since he already closed it years ago. He can deem it closed.

[John Thacker]

His plan was stupid, since it involved moving the entire system of indefinite detention to the mainland.

[Auric Demonocles]

He should have just called it a tax.

[CE]

After the hunger strike plays itself out, he can send the guards home and deem it closed.

[Coeus]

Jezebel readers are shocked, shocked I tell ya, that some men would punch a women trying to run away with 18 years worth of loot:

Punching Sperm-Stealing Women Totally Okay With Men's Rights Activists

Where does this legend of the sperm swiping madwoman come from? And why won't it die? Why are men's rights activists so willing to believe that in a world practically dripping with sperm, women specifically want theirs so they can be pregnant and possibly farty for 9 months, stretch their skin out, and go through childbirth in order to control the men in their lives? Don't flatter yourselves, dudes. If a woman wants to be pregnant, she doesn't need to steal sperm ? she can just head to a sperm bank or a local bar full of drunk irresponsible barebacking-a-stranger types.

[John]

Because heading the the sperm bank doesn't ensure child support? I would imagine people like millionaire athletes face this sort of problem a lot. But a woman getting a some NBA player drunk and sleeping with him in hopes of getting pregnant and the accompanying hundreds of thousands or maybe millions in child support would be totally okay by Jezzy standards.

[Coeus]

Because heading the the sperm bank doesn't ensure child support?

Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding. We have a winner. And even though the author of this piece isn't that bright, there's no way she's that dumb. She knows the reason.

[Auric Demonocles]

She reportedly wanted children, like, immediately, and even secretly stopped taking birth control pills without telling her boyfriend in an attempt to get herself accidentally on purpose pregnant (which is the first odd thing about the story, since I've never once met a 21-year-old college girl who has been just dying to be pumped full of babyjuice, but I digress).

Emphasis mine. The women a Jezebel writer hangs out with don't want to have babies young? What a shock. And clearly there have been no women who want kids by 21 ever. The third of my high school class that were pregnant before I graduated college must have all been accidents.

[Episiarch]

Well, you were all Vermont hicks. Just sayin'.

[Auric Demonocles]

There is a certain amount of truth to this. The ones who got pregnant and the ones who went to college/moved out of the area didn't overlap that much.

[Coeus]

Yeah. The guy is obviously a troll, but that is insane. Their reasoning amounts to sticking their fingers in their ears and going "na-na-na-na-na-na".

[Brett L]

since I've never once met a 21-year-old college girl who has been just dying to be pumped full of babyjuice

Hmm. I knew lots of 21 .o college girls who loved to bone.

[#HOLO YOLO]

I was going to quote that too. Not everybody is an "enlightened" NYC liberal (and yes, I did look it up -- she does live in NYC).

[Joe M]

She probably doesn't know anyone that voted for Nixon, either.

[HellsBells]

Honestly? I've personally known at least 5 girls who tried and/or succeeded in getting pregnant on the sly. In every single case it wasn't that they were desperate for a baby, but were desperate to hang onto whatever dipshit they were currently obsessed with. So barebacking strangers and heading to the sperm bank aren't options to these psychos.

[#HOLO YOLO]

Comment:

I certainly don't think that pregnancy-by-deception is kosher, but I don't see how one could pass a law making it illegal. If that were the case, dead beat dads would claim their partner deceived them to get out of child support. If men don't want to produce offspring, they should get sterilized.

Emphasis mine

[Coeus]

Every time the subject of "financial abortion" comes up, the feminists turn into socons.

[Auric Demonocles]

Argh, defeated because I typed the whole thing out.

[Tonio]

Your prose is too prolix.

[Auric Demonocles]

And yet the idea of my "legal" abortion is anathema to feminists:

Up until whatever the point that a women is allowed to get an abortion is, the man can get a "legal abortion", which absolves him of all child support and similar responsibilities (and forfeits any visitation rights). If the women decides to have an abortion, he pays half. If she doesn't, he is entirely off the hook. Once that point passes it is too late and he has to bear half the costs (though there would have to be some way to show that she didn't keep him in the dark until it was too late).

[AuH20]

^Yeah, this.

Wanna know what pisses me off the most? When you bring up how unfair it is to expect the man to pay on a feminist site, suddenly they are all, "Well, it's for the good of the child."

Ugh. Whichever side of the abortion debate you end up on, you end up on it with some goddamn ugly fellow travelers.

[Auric Demonocles]

Even more head scratching is when they say "if they didn't want a kid then they shouldn't have had sex". I actually agree with that premise, but I'm not prochoice.

[Tonio]

a world practically dripping with sperm

Someone has issues...

[Paul.]

Colorado legislators are considering taxing the stuff in excess of 25 percent.

Think of marijuana as a type of tobacco.

Yeah, not really legal, heavily taxed and uhh, no, you can't smoke that here, there or increasingly, anywhere.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

I have a confession.

The wife and I went on vacation last week, and stayed in Chicago for a few days. She wanted to try deep dish pizza, as she had seen it on Food Network. I advised against it, with the usual arguments, but to no avail. We ended up going to Lou Malnati's near Merchandise Mart for lunch, and ordered a small deep dish with sausage, pepperoni and mushrooms.

It was delicious. Like, it was maybe about the best pizza I ever ate. We liked it so much that last Sunday, we made deep dish pizza from scratch, in our kitchen. They were delicious as well.

If Jason Collins has the courage to come out, I feel I now have the courage to say, "I love deep dish pizza. Alot!"

Thank you.

[John]

Couldn't you guys have just done something wholesome and normal like hired a hooker and had a threesome? Deep dish? Really?

[A Serious Man]

Hell, even swinging with Nicole and her boyfriend would have been less damaging an admission.

[Tonio]

Ego te absolvo...

[$park?]

Well you've really put your foot in it now.

[Episiarch]

(adds EDG to the list)

[Alack]

You're going to Hell for that, you disgusting sinner.

[hamilton]

Oh, fuck, there went this thread.

[Episiarch]

Not at all, the proper response is to treat EDG like a leper and just move on. You know, like how we treat ProL.

[Fist of Etiquette]

No, thank you.

[Episiarch]

(adds FoE to the list for the 100th time)

[Fist of Etiquette]

Marooned for all eternity at the center of an enemies list...

[A Serious Man]

I admire your courage EDG.

[hamilton]

No one's courage is to be admired until the President calls them personally.

Which, being from Chicago and all, is something that might actually happen in this case.

[Bam!]

And for the next great debate of the Reason commentarium: What is the proper orientation of toilet paper: Overhand or underhand?

[Archduke Pantsfan]

that's for the servants to decide.

[hamilton]

Win.

[Episiarch]

OVERHAND FOREVER

Anyone who disagrees is a fucking animal.

[Fist of Etiquette]

UNDERHAND MEANS THE LOOSE END IS CLOSER TO THE WALL AND LESS LIKELY TO GET IN THE WAY OF NORMAL TOILET OPERATIONS. IT'S SCIENCE.

[Episiarch]

I guess I need a new list.

[NeonCat]

At this point you should just start a list of people who aren't on one of your other lists. It will be a lot shorter.

[Auric Demonocles]

But what hand orientation should pizza be in? And does it matter whether it is deep dish or not?

[Fist of Etiquette]

SQUARE PIZZA IS THE DEVIL.

[Episiarch]

For once, I agree with FoE. I expect the world to end in approximately one hour.

[jesse.in.mb]

And how do you two feel about misshapen, hand-formed crusts?

Because now I feel compelled to make pizza for dinner, which was not my plan. Thanks a lot guys.

[Joe M]

I am a devout overhander at home, but...

...in the specialized case of certain industrial dispensers, underhand makes more sense. There, I said it.

[AuH20]

Underhand. Easier access. Overhand and you end up folding it on your knee.

[CE]

Overhand. You can tear it off where needed, and not leave any extra hanging down.

[Libertarian Book Club]

Overhanders are black on the left side.

[Auric Demonocles]

I honestly had no idea people cared about this at all until like 2 months ago.

[#HOLO YOLO]

I didn't realize anybody actually did it "underhand" until a few months ago.

[Auric Demonocles]

I don't think I even do it the same way all the time. I'm pretty sure it's whatever direction it randomly ends up when I grab the roll.

[#HOLO YOLO]

CHAOS!!!!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Underhand. They made it official on an episode of The Simpsons.

[Auric Demonocles]

"Simpsons did it" is the lowest form of wit, next to Pro Lib that is.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I was just citing my sources, which is more diligence than any of you people show.

[Bam!]

"Simpsons did it" is a terrible defense for any behavior.

Truly, we must wait until the Toilet Safety Administration weighs in.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Overhand. Fuck that Euro-ninny underhand bullshit!

[a better weapon]

You like deep dish, you don't get an opinion anymore!

[NeonCat]

Shouldn't properly monocled libertarians use goose necks, like in Gargantua?

[Heroic Mulatto]

I use underaged (because their tongues haven't developed calluses yet) Cambodian anus-cleaning indentured servant girls, personally.

[db]

Overhand is the clearly superior way.

[Auric Demonocles]

My confession is that I like all pizza, but I like the extras of deep dish and NY style super thin the least.

[AuH20]

I'm sorry. This is incorrect.

Connecticut has the best pizza. Yeah, that's right New York, you greasy pizza-d Dago bastards!

[AuH20]

You see, even though we let dagos like nicole in, Connecticut's New England reservedness made sure that they kept the pizza crispy and pretty light on the grease, but still retaining that thin-crust crunch.

[CE]

Well, you're certainly entitled to live your life as you see fit, but don't expect the rest of us to approve.

[A Serious Man]

New Hampshire man loses life savings in carnival game.

[$park?]

But did he win a banana with dreadlocks?

[Rich]

"For once in my life, I happened to become that sucker," he said.

"Once", eh?

[Joe M]

Day late and $2600 short.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Aussie self-help author Corey Donaldson has wept in a Wyoming court as he told a jury he robbed a bank to give money to America's poor.

[Rich]

Now he can "help" some poor folks in prison.

[Brett L]

Pussy. No wonder he left Oz.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Breathe easy: Reports of the cupcake's demise are premature.

[$park?]

Greatly exaggerated! How could you not say greatly exaggerated?

[a better weapon]

That was pretty jarring to read, wasn't it?

[John]

Why anyone would stand in a hour line for a Georgetown cupcake is beyond me.

[Rich]

Or pay *$5*!

[AuH20]

I honestly do not get how the cake/cupcake thing got so big recently.

[AuH20]

This is the most epic feminist on feminist shit storm I have ever had the privilege to read.

Butch Please: Butch with a side of misogyny

The comments are, obviously, stupid. But they are also so fucking hateful, including one incredibly rageful tranny. Well, let me show you. Here was the second comment, and the subsequent replies:

Just because he's Trans now doesn't mean that's the reason he's mysoginistic. Please don't clump Transmen into this. That might be your experience but its not everyone's. Ftms are all different and speaking of one that is this way because he's Trans is giving us a disservice.

Relax. Physicsfem was just sharing their experience. That's allowed. There is no implication in Physics comment that the ex behaved that way " because he is trans.". That would be like me telling you a story about a badly behaved 4th grader I work with, and you responding with " you're doing a disservice to all 4 th graders everywhere?". No reasonable person would read physicfems comment and think all trans men were misogynistic.

Telling a woman to "relax" reinforces patriarchal notions of women as hysterical and oversensitive.

Cont..

[AuH20]

Relax is used when a person overreacts to a situation. It is said to both genders.

There are more than two genders.

That was the first thread. It really only gets better from there.

Well, because I have room for one more comment:

I'm not sure the article was trying to aim any exclusivity in blame at the butches, it is simply a column that is centered around/focused on a butch experience.

And, this right here: "Objectifying is not the same as misogyny because women can treat men like sex objects too." ? I feel that the difference that comes in women objectifying men is that it doesn't instill the same sense of fear, loss of safety, loss of dignity/respect that it does when women are objectified (which I'd argue isn't the entire definition of misogyny, but certainly a facet of it), considering misogyny is conducive to rape culture which is fucking terrifying and v. arguably more focused towards women.

Also, hooking up isn't really about objectifying someone ? there are many ways to hook up with someone in a respectful manner. It's been done.

And if you want to skip most of the shit storm and see the best part, where a gay man comments on a lesbian forum (a gay frat boy no less), here it is:

http://www.autostraddle.com/bu.....ent-307787

[John]

Those people both frighten and fascinate me. How can you spend your entire life obsessed with your status in the victim identity cult?

[Episiarch]

That's a good question, John. I have no idea. But I'm pretty sure they're fucking miserable. You can't be happy if you perpetually see yourself as victimized and have that endlessly reinforced on circle jerk group think internet forums.

[John]

It is worse than that. You don't just feel bad about being a victim. You worry and obsessed about how your being a victim is not properly appreciated and given its due respect by other victims.

So you are not just upset about those memories of being called a fat ass in junior high. You are equally or more upset by the fact that someone else might think their experiences are more worthy of victimhood than your own.

It has to be completely miserable.

[Episiarch]

Yeah, and that's why I mostly just ignore this shit. They have to be utterly miserable and I really want no part of it, not even just reading it out of morbid curiosity.

[AuH20]

I just simply do not understand how a person can go about so angry, all the time, ready to flip a shit at the slightest perceived slight.

I mean, I suppose I could just go watch young gang-bangers, but feminist are slightly more articulate.

[derpules]

You mean like we do?

[Heedless]

Every time someone post one of these, I'm reminded that just because you're a victim doesn't mean you can't also be an asshole.

Then I read the thread compulsively, because it's hilarious.

[AuH20]

This guy gets it!

I especially enjoyed the whole thread about whether having a one night stand with someone was misogynistic and objectifying. The fact that not once does anyone hop in and go, "Guys, you know we all sound like fucking retards, right?" is great.

And yes, that is also the reason I always ignore Tony. Because arguing with him for pages on end makes us all sound like fucking retards.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Sorry, I'd take greater pleasure squeezing out an actual turd than reading that shit from a bunch of broken people.

[Matrix]

Telling a woman to "relax" reinforces patriarchal notions of women as hysterical and oversensitive.

Someone actually said that. I hope they were being facetious. If not... a face punch is in order.

[John]

Nothing these people say is ever facetious. They are the most earnest, boring people on earth.

[Matrix]

so we can proceed with the face punching then?

[hamilton]

I believe the new "in vogue" term the kids are using is "cunt punt".

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Alright Hamilton!

[AuH20]

Oh, by the way, I didn't fit it in, but the piece is about how even though they are women, lesbians can perpetuate the dreaded RAPE CULTUREZZZZ!!!

Seriously, its like a movie monster for feminist.

COMING SOON: RAPE CULTURE!
And this time... not even lesbians are safe!

[Gladstone]

You know which region historically engaged in pro-active methods of community justice to deal with Rape Culture and Workplace Harassment?

[a better weapon]

Transmen? Isn't that just a little too close to Klansmen?

[A Serious Man]

Half of LA Times staff say they'd be willing to quit if bought by Koch Brothers.

[Brett L]

"Make sure you sign your real name."
-D. Koch

[robc]

Koch brothers get to trim staff for free. CHECK.
Readers dont have to read stuff from a bunch of leftist ninnies. CHECK.
Leftist ninnies dont have to work for Kochs. CHECK.

I fail to see the problem.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

I'm sure the LA Weekly will hire them in a snap.

[John]

Uh huh. There are about a thousand hungry journalists out there who will gladly take their place. Good luck with that threat guys.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Lucy Steigerwald to be named new editor at LA Times.

[John]

God I know at least three very qualified journalists who would crawl to LA for a full time job working at the Times. Those people delusional.

[Joe M]

BLUFFING

[Restoras]

Hint to the clueless: Feature, not a bug.

Furthermore, I bet they wouldn't quit just like all those whiney libtards swore they'd move to Canada if W was elected - and promptly didn't.

My kids were better behaved in their terrible two's than these clowns.

[AuH20]

Because there are so many good jobs in journalism available!

Goddamn do I hope they finalize this sale.

[Calidissident]

Apparently the Kochs are more worthy of lefty hatred than Murdoch?

[Archduke Pantsfan]

It's 5:30 am. San Francisco's uniformed trash inspectors are monitoring the contents of residents' garbage cans, and entering their findings into a database which will be handed over to the community outreach crew.

"It's part of the city's broader effort to become 100-percent 'waste free' by 2020."

[$park?]

Uh...

Fuck it, I'm not breaking my brain.

[John]

They really think that a community of hundreds of thousands of people is going to be "waste free"? Tell me liberalism isn't a cult.

[AuH20]

Sadly being San Fran I think many will meekly pay the fine.

Seriously, there must be small business owners in San Fran, operating restaurants and corner stores and shit. How the fuck have they not all just gone, "Y'know what? Fuck y'all" and left?

[Rich]

LOL

"Keep SF beautiful. Dump your trash in San Jose."

[db]

In other news, the San Francisco City Council announced today a new grant program for scientists working to reduce universal entropy.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

11 Larry David Tattoos.

[Bam!]

No Leon tattoos?

[A Serious Man]

COS-MARX-POLITAN: Your Tumbler Guide to Fun, Fearless Freedom from the Oppression of Capitalism

[Alack]

Pleasantly surprised by that one

[PapayaSF]

Yes, nicely done.

[AuH20]

An insanely good piece about the Iditorod

Seriously, read it if you need to wash the taste of sports writers patting themselves on the back over Jason Collins out of your mouth

[A Serious Man]

A quick survey on abortion:

Suppose it were possible to engineer a permanent national deal (it's not, but just consider it as a thought experiment) wherein in exchange for a strictly enforced ban on post-viability abortions that didn't involve direct threats to the life of the mother, we'd also start treating all forms of contraception and pre-viability abortions not only as legal, but as medical procedures that would be publicly funded just like other medical procedures, under normal (not prohibitive) inspection and regulatory regimes?

How many pro-choicers would go for that? How many pro-lifers?

[John]

We were talking about abortion yesterday. And here is my question for pro choicers. If we are talking about a late term abortion, what is it about the trip down the birth canal that makes one a person? Take a child who is say at seven months and can be born and survive as a premie. One day, he is in the womb and being aborted is perfectly okay. The next, his mother's body for whatever reason goes into labor and he is delivered and at that moment is now a person deserving of full rights.

What changes? Is there some kind of consciousness or brain activity that we don't have in the womb that we suddenly achieve outside of it? If so, what is it and where is the scientific evidence for it? If not, then what is different between the two circumstances than one is in the mother's body and the other is out. Okay, what is special about being out of the mother's body? Why is that the deciding factor rather than some measure of consciousness or DNA or faculties?

[Matrix]

I suggest we find a way to make artificial wombs. That way, unwanted pregnancies can be transported into an artificial womb that is adopted by a couple wanting a baby. They can pay for all the expenses.

[John]

That would work. It seems to be birth made a great dividing line back before we knew what went on the womb. A hundred years ago it was rational to thing maybe there was something transformative about the birth process. But now we know for a scientific fact that is completely untrue. And given that, I am not seeing any coherent argument for late term abortions.

[AuH20]

Eh, that is why I like the current "viability standard". I don't know why so many think it is still Roe's second trimester- Casey changed it to viability, which has older roots. It will work with an artificial womb, and they are able to deliver babies earlier and earlier, so it seems like this may be less of a problem.

"I want an abortion"
"Nah, we can just take it out, stick it in an incubator, and give up for adoption."

[John]

But viability is every bit as artificial. It is just another way of saying "out of the womb". In a sense a new born isn't viable. They can't live without constant care and attention. And someone in a coma is no more viable than someone in a womb. But we would never say it was okay to pull the plug on a coma victim whom we knew was more than likely going to wake up in a few months.

I have always been very neutral on abortion. But the more I think about it the more I think the line needs to be at a minimum brain activity and maybe even conception.

[Joe M]

That's not what the viability standard is. It means can it survive with the proper care. A baby born at three months isn't going to survive; I don't care what you do.

[Heroic Mulatto]

A baby born at three months isn't going to survive; I don't care what you do.

This baby made it at 4 months.

[ant1sthenes]

Viability is artificial in the sense that it is now determined by human artifice, sure.

But there is some logic in that viability is treading the thin line between each party's rights regarding its body, when conflict is no longer medically necessary.

[Heroic Mulatto]

"Nah, we can just take it out... and give up for adoption."

She could also just wait 9 months for them to take it out and give it up for adoption, but many women don't/won't.

Why is that?

[Some call me Tim?]

Have you ever live with a pregnant woman?

Being pregnant can be AWFUL.

[AuH20]

Actually... couldn't an artificial womb solve the whole maternity leave problem?

A couple could just do artificial insemination inside the womb, the woman never physically caries the kid. So, that takes away a good chunk of the pay gap, right?

[Some call me Tim?]

Women take maternity leave AFTER the baby is born, and it's been that way for a couple decades.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Why, yes I have, actually. A pregnant woman whom I had to rush to the ER while she was four months pregnant because she was experiencing extreme pain in her abdomen. After that time, this woman had to receive regular blood transfusions, which were a 6 + hour ordeal.

Never once did she harbor the notion of killing the fetus for her convenience.

[Some call me Tim?]

Was she pregnant by choice?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Was she pregnant by choice?

It wasn't planned, no.

[AuH20]

Look, here is my problem with arguing that abortion is murder.

Say abortion is outlawed. Now, your coworker, lets call her Tina, comes up and confides in you that she thinks she is pregnant, and it confirms what you've suspect, with her rushing to the bathroom to heave for a few days.

She says that, though she knows it is illegal, she is thinking of getting an abortion. You beg and plead with her not to, and she seems to accept your arguments.

Now, a few weeks later, Tina no longer shows any signs of pregnancy. Maybe it was just a scare. But maybe she got an abortion. Or maybe she had a miscarriage. Still, there is a good reason to suspect she got an abortion.

So, do you call the cops on Tina? I mean, after all, if there was a mysterious disappearance from your office, you would at least file a missing persons report? I mean, she may have killed someone. Maybe not, but definitely enough for a warrant.

So, do you call the cops?

[CE]

So you're soft on crime, got it.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I don't see the problem in your thought experiment. If you believe abortion is murder, and it's currently illegal in your jurisdiction, then you'd obviously call the cops. If Tina has an alibi, what's the dilemma?

I don't see why abortion qualifies for special pleading.

[AuH20]

So, Heroic Mulatto, do you call the cops? Do you CE?

I want to know from those who claim to believe abortion is murder if they actually will follow through with that belief.

And then I'd like you to explain how that doesn't exacerbate the problem of 3 felonies a day when anyone can call the cops on a woman who miscarries. Or wasn't pregnant but you suspected. Or told you she thought she was pregnant but it turns out she wasn't.

Because I am tired of this being framed by some as "murder v. not murder". Its "Murder vs. incredibly invasive police state to prevent something that is perfectly natural."

Hell, if it makes it any clearer: Tina never talks to you. She never mentions abortion. But you do see a positive pregnancy test in her waste basket as she empties it. Then, she is not pregnant. She may have miscarried- perfectly natural. May even have been a false positive. But if you don't think a dick prosecutor couldn't get a warrant to search her financial, see if she paid for an abortion, etc. you are kidding yourself.

[Some call me Tim?]

I've suggested this to my very pro-choice gf. She seems to think it impossible, but I believe nanobots will solve all these problems.

[Matrix]

I really look forward to nanobots. We can watch the medical profession transform dramatically. Reduce the need for invasive surgery. Heart attacks, strokes, aneurysms, and cancer will become nearly a thing of the past. Obesity would be eliminated. People could probably eat, drink, and smoke as they wished with little long-term consequence. A glorious future it will be!

[Tonio]

Is there some kind of consciousness or brain activity that we don't have in the womb that we suddenly achieve outside of it? If so, what is it and where is the scientific evidence for it?

Walking, talking, shit like that. Do at least pretend to respond to rational arguements, John.

[CE]

No, those occur several months after birth.

[John]

New borns don't walk Tonio. And they don't talk either. Are they not human beings?

I love you wait until I leave to come and say something totally stupid and then run away. You really are irrational on this subject.

[VG Zaytsev]

One difference is breathing, respiration.

You don't in utero and you definitely always do while alive after birth.

[Brandon]

medical procedures that would be publicly funded just like other medical procedures...

I think I see the problem here.

[Tonio]

Free shit from the government is a problem right there for many libertarians, regardless of their feelings about abortion.

And drop the choice/life bs. The issue is abortion, yo're fer it or agin' it.

[Tonio]

"you're"

[Enough About Palin]

"George Zimmerman has, for some reason, chosen not to raise a "stand your ground" defense to head off a second-degree murder trial in the death of Trayvon Martin."

All that matters is that Trayvon received the justice he deserved.

[a better weapon]

A nice, full figured NBA cheerleader. Hefty cheerleaders and gay players. God, what a tolerant world we live in!

http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy.....43359.html

[Auric Demonocles]

Meh, she's not fat. Though she is a bit large for professional cheerleading.

Odds she ends up being a teacher and banging a student due to low self esteem?

[John]

Nah. She will marry some rich guy and have a litter of kids.

[Auric Demonocles]

But there's been hotter NFl cheerleaders that haven't followed that path.

[John]

She is just a healthy country girl from Oklahoma. I bet she could pop out six kids before she is 30.

[Hyperion]

The only thing wrong with her, is if she hasn't sprouted some boobs by the time she reached that weight, there is seriously no chance it's gonna happen.

[Hyperion]

If you put some T&A on her to go along with that belly, there wouldn't be anything wrong with her.

That's not what I would call fat, at all.

Of course, like most Reasonoids, I haven't always exclusively dated 6'2" 110 lb. super models.

[John]

Of course, like most Reasonoids, I haven't always exclusively dated 6'2" 110 lb. super models.

Winner!!

[#HOLO YOLO]

Too tall. 5'2" is where it's at.

[Hyperion]

That's my wife's exact height, so works for me.

[Episiarch]

"Look, yes, I have banged hundreds of broads, internationally, but know this: I wrap my rascal TWO times 'cause I like it to be joyless and without sensation as a way of punishing supermodels."

[Hyperion]

Obama really would close Gitmo this time, he's totally serial, but... you guessed it, Rethuglicans!

[AuH20]

So, one thing about this Jason Collins thing: I heard an interview with Charles Barkley where at one point the gay athlete thing was brought up. And Barkley said that in the locker room, there were guys that everyone knew was gay. When asked to elaborate how he knew this, Barkley said something to the effect of, "Y'know, the places they went after the game, that sort of thing." So, apparently, at least in the locker room's Barkley has been in, it was a well known secret that after the game, say, Dan Marjerle was going to Boystown.

And I guess this is why I grow tired of hearing how "courageous" Collins is. The guy is not fucking Jackie Robinson sportswriters, and I'm sorry you were all born too late to cover that. Robinson basically had the St. Louis Cardinals try to kill him and they didn't give a shit or feel too bad after. People publicly state that they wouldn't play on the same field as a "nigger" or go watch games with one on the field. I mean, shit, Hank Aaron was getting death threats from racists as he tried to break the Home Run Record in the 70s. Also, based on what Barkley has said, there have been guys who have been out for years to their teammates- they just didn't tell the media about it.

If a gay athlete had come out in 1992, when AIDs was still rampant and people much more open about making gay jokes, jabs, and quips, I could pretend that this is as big a deal as the sports media wants it to be.

[AuH20]

I guess here is what I dread: Should he go to the free throw line even once next season, some jackass fan is going to yell the word 'faggot' at Collins. They will do this not because they are a homophobe, but because they are a jackass fan trying to psych a player out. Remember when people chanted PLO at Steve Kerr after his dad was killed in Lebanon, remember those jackasses? Or the fans at Yankee Stadium (oh, I can't wait until a gay closer has to come in for a save at Yankee Stadium)? But you know when and if it happens, the media is going to clutch its pearls and do to sports fans what they do to non-progressives.

[John]

Staying in the closet on a professional basketball team would be like staying in the closet as a flight attendant. They all travel together. Gee, someone might notice that you don't ever go to the same bars with everyone else and seem to disappear after games and never show any interest in the groupies.

Most work places have someone who everyone figures are gay. And no one ever cares. It never occurs to the media that perhaps not everyone defines their entire life by their sexuality or maybe would prefer not to share it with the world.

[AuH20]

But how will we market to gays and their gay-friendly friends if we don't know which athletes are gay!

Seriously, that is the biggest story behind the story: The young generation is so accepting of homosexuality than companies are terrified of being perceived as anti-gay. But get a gay athlete to endorse your product, you don't have to worry about that anymore.

[CE]

You couldn't even buy a jersey with the name "Gay" on it until Rudy Gay was drafted. True story.

[AuH20]

Also, people who aren't defined by their sexuality are useless as victims.

[Stormy Dragon]

How about a gay athelete that came out in 1978?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....osexuality

[AuH20]

Or that gay Welsh rugby player that came out a few years ago. It is a little sad how this is being sold as "THE FIRST EVER!" when the rest of the world could give a shit.

[jesse.in.mb]

The first ever thing drives annoys me. I was particularly upset with Obama as First Gay President. I get that it's a play on Clinton's first black president thing, but Sullivan should know better. James Buchanan was really freaking gay.

Now we just need a good first gay president and we're all set.

[AuH20]

Dude, if you are going to pimp for a gay President, go with Lincoln.

Okay, he pumped out 4 kids with Mary Todd before all was said and done, so probably bi.

I mean, yeah, Buchanan was super gay. But Lincoln insisted that the same bodyguard sleep in his room every single night. For his protection my ass. Or Lincoln's ass. Or the bodyguard's. As was revealed last night, I don't judge. Just don't understand the impulse to do that with a guy.

[jesse.in.mb]

Haha, I haven't read The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln. Buchanan was still first even if Tripp's thesis were true. It's also not particularly controversial to point out that Buchanan was sodomitically inclined, but Lincoln gets people all freaked out.

As was revealed last night, I don't judge

Welch's comment was priceless. I always wonder what the staff thinks when the comments section goes full perv.

[AuH20]

I call bullshit in inventing the high five, btw.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

20000 people have signed up to go to Mars.

[Hyperion]

What!? Are they crazy! Someone could get hurt. The government has to step in here and do something to protect these people from themselves!

[AuH20]

And genetically diverse.

Plus, the Chinese people signing up will probably remember what a real statist shithole looks like, and keep us off that path.

[Heroic Mulatto]

But...but...but....RED MARS!

Fuck Red Kim.

[Auric Demonocles]

If I could bring a wife I would be interested in doing this type of trip at some point.

[CE]

So the air on Mars is cleaner and easier to breathe? I suppose, if you don't mind that it is a little light on oxygen molecules and is normally 130 degrees below 0.

[Auric Demonocles]

It's pretty dusty.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Tesla Model S topped Chevy's Volt in Q1 sales

[Episiarch]

The number of Teslas I see on the road has suddenly jumped a ton here in Seattle.

[A Serious Man]

Feminist pornographer Erika Lust: Why I make porn with 'real' people.

Isn't the whole point of porn supposed to be in its escapism of fantasy?

[John]

Yeah. But for some the fantasy seems more real if the people look real. Tons of porn is now presented as "amateur". The idea being that the fantasy is better if the creates the illusion the viewer is seeing the cute college girl or young couple down the street rather than the unattainable actor.

[Auric Demonocles]

Personally I find fantasies more appealing if it's at least slightly conceivable that it could come true. So I'd be more turned on thinking about the 7/10 girl from work than the 9/10 celebrity.

[CE]

Unattainable? Hardly. People want to watch someone who doesn't look like they've done it a few thousand times and are just going through the motions.

[AuH20]

Ugh. I refuse to dig it out, but I once saw a piece about feminist porn and its principle. One was how the celebrated "all body types". What this basically meant was fat women, transexuals, and super masculine looking women, as well as women who used to be men.

So, tall busty blondes or brunettes with perky tits don't have a "real" body type I suppose.

I saw no mention of fat men, btw. Funny that.

[Hyperion]

Wait a minute. I thought porn necessarily victimizes women???

This feminist is a hypocrite! What she is doing surely victimizes women.

[AuH20]

So is anyone else watching Defiance?

I really like it so far, and I finally realized what it is trying to be: Space Deadwood. Like, its a Western, but it is entirely town focused and actually a lot less interested in shoot-outs at high noon than the way the various factions in the town work for, against, and with each other.

I mean, its SyFy, not HBO, so not as good (so disappointed that last night's sex scene with town brothel owner wouldn't allow her to go topless. Although, if you are cable, why not imply nudity with a bare back. Always weird on TV when a woman keeps her top on while her lower bits are covered with a sheet or dress or shit). The moral complexity will be lacking.

But still, the women are hot, they have Space Jews (A Proper wife bathes with her husband! It is our tradition!), the guy channels some Mal (though they need to shade him a bit more morally grey), and the aliens all feel very unique (Thanks Farscape creator Rock O'Bannon, which is somehow not a porn name)

[Archduke Pantsfan]

I watched a bit of the first episode and didn't get excited. Maybe I will give it another chance.

[Episiarch]

I watched the pilot and enjoyed it. It's so nice to watch a new scifi show that isn't a complete train wreck run by Brannon Braga with retarded plot complications and totally nonsensical motivations on the parts of the characters. O'Bannon's a solid writer and he brought his Farscape game with him, and it's working. I'm looking forward to watching more episodes.

[AuH20]

Second episode is kinda meh, but third episode which just aired was a fun monster of the week.

[Episiarch]

Well, that makes sense. Farscape was at its fun best when they just did adventures of the week during seasons one and two.

[AuH20]

You mean Season 2, aka the Season where every other episode the characters act totally out of character because of drugs/mind control/Chriton's Chip/a nebula?

[Episiarch]

Well, the latter half of season two is where they started really ramping into continuous story arcs and getting much more serious, so yeah. I love Farscape but I wish they'd kept it more fun and less serious like when they started out.

[jesse.in.mb]

I felt othered by Farscape.

S02E04 - "Crackers Don't Matter"

I loved that show, got a number of friends into it, but when I try to watch it now it hasn't aged well.

[db]

I still like it.

[Tonio]

Thanks, Epi. Also, love the BB slam. Enterprise could have been so much better.

[a better weapon]

I keep forgetting about this show! Thanks for reminding me. I'll set my DVR... assuming I don't forget again.

[Paul.]

Isn't this the show that's going to end up being a massively multiplayer video game?

[AuH20]

Yes, for some reason.

[Paul.]

I believe that if I'm correct, Bungie has been toying with this MMO concept for like, a decade. I think that they licensed the idea for the show to help gin up and maintain interest in it, because the game is still a long way off, and my guess is they want to build up and maintain interest in the defiance 'universe' while this uber long-term project remains in the works.

[Paul.]

I heart runon sentences.

[AuH20]

Oh, is that it? That may be a good sign. I'm assuming Bungie has a shit ton of money.

[Some call me Tim?]

Game is already out, they released at the same time.

[AuH20]

Okay, I will admit the show is a litte too into "the town comes together" end scenes and the musical cues at the end of episodes are a little heavy handed.

Then again, "This is a document for Yangs and Comms!" It goes with the genre.

[Fluffy]

I haven't seen that one for years.

I should download it.

[Tonio]

It also streams on Amazon Prime or Netflix

[AuH20]

Or Hulu Plus.

Look, some of us have it, okay? I mostly think of it as a small monthly bribe I pay to the TV networks. I still have to watch ads, they put most first run shit on for free, but given how many times various networks have threatened to pull out of it, I do it.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Do I stand a chance with my bisexual flatmate?
My flatmate has only dated women before, although she is clearly very attracted to me. How can I convince her to take it to the next level?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Then we must slay them!

[A Serious Man]

Ask her if she's into expanding her horizons and get chummy with her latest girlfriend.

[Hyperion]

So you guys are basically saying that there is this Syfy show on, that is not just another soap opera wrapped up in Sci-Fi clothing?

I don'tz believe it. I stopped watching TV a long time ago, except for the occasional documentary.

[AuH20]

I stopped watching TV a long time ago, except for the occasional documentary.

Fuck. Don't tell me your that guy.

[Heedless]

It's like selling all your stock in 2009.

[Irish]

Mother Jones: Austerity Cause Depression, Suicide and Infectious Disease.

Austerity is like climate change. It does every bad thing and no good things.

[Hyperion]

But they can both be solved by MOAR REVENUE.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Women don't poop at work?

[Restoras]

I love pooping at work, mostly becasue I'm not spending my money on TP.

[Auric Demonocles]

Plus you're getting paid to do it.

[AuH20]

This has become a really weird obsession in some circles lately.

Has there been a rash of burst colons lately from women holding it in too long?

[jesse.in.mb]

Some of my lady coworkers were obsessed with this for a while. I just wish the guys in my building would learn how not to spray shit all the way down the back of the bowl and leave skid marks on the back of the toilet seat. Seriously...what the fuck are they doing wrong?

[Episiarch]

A few weeks back someone from downstairs came up and just completely stanked the nominal "women's" restroom on our floor, and our female junior developer went on a rant in our office just going "why do they come up here to poop?!? They have their own bathroom!"

It was funny. And of course after that we would constantly come back in the office and tell her we just laid a horrible one in the women's bathroom.

[AuH20]

Well, jesse, I would assume that most of the other gentlemen at your office have less incentive than you do for anal maintenance?

[Heroic Mulatto]

No....White or Black, Straight or Gay; you need to wash your ass.

[jesse.in.mb]

I just don't want the men's room toilet to look like the one from Trainspotting. I don't think this is a gay thing (it's entirely possible that I'm wrong and straight guys are really comfortable with sitting on filthy toilets). I have no strong opinions on the anuses of the other men in my building, or whatever they're doing to "maintain" them.

[AuH20]

I was, of course, giving you shit. Double Entendre HEY O!

Seriously, what is the subclass of men that treats toilets as barns? Who were they raised by?

[Episiarch]

Your mom?

[AuH20]

Well someone had to. Yours was to busy out whoring to put food on the table and roof over our heads!

[Episiarch]

You're just upset because I lost my virginity to her before you did. Get over it.

[AuH20]

That's only cuz you're older! In a fair fight I woulda had her first!

[Heroic Mulatto]

it's entirely possible that I'm wrong and straight guys are really comfortable with sitting on filthy toilets

No, we aren't.

[Matrix]

Dude, do you work in my building? Seriously, we are looking for someone we call "Mr. Splatterass". Yeah, spraying the bowl and other shit. It's disgusting. We want to rub his nose in it and kick his ass. And people wonder why I wipe the seat first and then put down some stuff.

People are fucking NASTY.

Oh, and I use paper towels to pull the bathroom door open. There are some nasty mother fuckers in my building who will take a shit and not wash their hands.

[db]

I got it from the toilet seat
I got it from the toilet seat.
It jumped right up and grabbed my meat!
Got it from the toilet seat.

p.s. Fuck Youtube for making it nearly impossible to search for a very specific song and get any useful results.

[Tonio]

+1 Utility Muffin Kitchen

[Hyperion]

Not that I really wanted to chime in on this unsavory topic. But what always comes to mind when I think of public toilets, are the guys that come in to brush their teeth while 4 other guys are sitting on the toilet stinking the place up to the max.

The public toilet tooth brushers seem oblivious.

[jesse.in.mb]

Not shitting everywhere is hardly challenging. I'm really baffled by the phenomenon.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

The first web page, ever

[Bam!]

Better designed than Huffington Post.

[db]

Loads faster than Hit and Run and doesn't try to install Candy Crush Saga on my phone at random intervals. I'm going to start hanging out there i stead.

[db]

And by "there" I mean the Cern site.

[Hyperion]

It looks like an early version of Drudge, or pretty much any website today that has been designed by some liberal with a PhD that knows everything there is to know about everything, except for, apparently, HTML, CSS, and basic concepts of web design.

[Coeus]

An article about a new Rand Paul bill.

They take this:

Poe told POLITICO that he crafted his legislation after constituents complained to him that the information sought is none of the government's business. "This should be voluntary. It shouldn't be required, it's not the government's job to count toilets ? it is their job to count people," Poe said. "Just because it does some good doesn't mean the Census Bureau should do it. Tax payers shouldn't have to fund that. If people want to use the community survey ? great. But they shouldn't be forced to."

And title it thusly:

Conservatives Versus Data Collection: The Eternal Struggle

[AuH20]

Its all about culture branding. If you a liberal, you are smart and tolerant and educated and cool. If you are conservative, you hate science and women and gays and are mean and nasty and pushy about religion.

Also, sweet Jesus. Remember when Politico was first launched and it was kinda straight news?

[Hyperion]

No, I can't remember that, from my experience, it's always been the worst type of progressive rag and a magnet for the most insane trolls on the planet.

I was there posting before I ever posted my first post here at H&R. That was back in my naive days of thinking that you can actually reason with proglodytes. Then it just got so stupid that I couldn't take it anymore. I haven't posted there for a couple of years, at least. The trolls there make ours look like champions of reason and logic.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Inmates use Yelp to review prison conditions

[Coeus]

Burglary of the Week:

Vickery told police he got into the home through an unlocked door. He told investigators he went upstairs to masturbate in the bathroom when he found a remote control helicopter. Vickery said he found some batteries and started playing with the helicopter. He also ate a salad that he brought with him, according to detectives.

Vickery told deputies he then went back to the bathroom to masturbate when he heard voices outside. He ran outside where a deputy, with his gun drawn, was waiting for him.

Police confiscated a bag full of marijuana, other drug paraphernalia, a wig, a towel and a pouch of chewing tobacco

[Heroic Mulatto]

This is the most fucked up part, in my opinion

He also ate a salad that he brought with him, according to detectives.

[AuH20]

He wanted a lunch quickie. With himself.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

The Trump hair catterpillar

[Fluffy]

Apparently somebody crossed Malamutes and Great Pyrenees.

I want one of these fucking Cloverfield Dire Wolf Killing Machines:

http://www.wakongiantalaskanma.....moose1.jpg

[Bam!]

I want a Czech wolfdog

[Hyperion]

Right now, some Dems in congress are working on a bill to require all dogs to be no bigger than the ones that your average aging hipster carries in his man purse. For the children, we have to pass it.

[AuH20]

Oh, so I am single again (don't ask), and back on OK Cupid.

One thing I have noticed is that many girls on their list their politics as left/liberal, but then tend to also note that they aren't that interested in politics and don't really like to talk about the subject too often.

I think that this corresponds a lot to my experience. A lot of people I meet are liberal but do it out of a sort of vague cultural mushiness. Corporations bad, environment and schools good kind of stuff. When you actually can start spouting off stuff like per pupil spending off the top of your head, most people either can't argue or just sort of get a glazed over look.

[Some call me Tim?]

In cities they're on the left, but the same personality type exists in rural areas and they tend to identify as mushy conservative.

[AuH20]

Oh yeah, I've met them too. Its often a very mushy sort of social conservatism. Those are the kind of people who watch televangelists and actually give them money.

It seems that mushy thinking and statism are strongly correlated, huh?

[A Serious Man]

It seems that mushy thinking and statism are strongly correlated, huh?

Indeed. I've used OKC before and with politics I could usually get most (but not all) to nod their heads in agreement with libertarian principles if I framed it right.

Only one girl I met was resistant to it/

[Bam!]

A review of human history would suggest statism is the default human thinking paradigm.

[AuH20]

I think it probably all comes from when we sacrificed goats to make the harvest gods like us. In an uncertain world where survival was paramount, the idea of freedom was scary as shit. A strong leader, a strong god, made people feel less uncertain about the world. Freedom, paradoxically, has actually moved us away from that. Because if history shows one other thing, it is that those in positions of power, left unsupervised, will abuse it.

[Stormy Dragon]

Or it could just be we evolved from apes that have an instictual drive to organize social groups into dominance hierarchies.

[Heroic Mulatto]

But we've managed to use our reason to overcome the tyranny of our instincts. I don't think there is something exclusive in our biology, which enables you and me to see the advantages of liberty and individualism, that other people on this earth don't possess.

[Stormy Dragon]

Yes, but reasoning requires effort. Most people prefer to go onto intellectual cruise control and slip back into monkey mode unless something forces them to really consider what their instincts are encouraging them to do.

[Stormy Dragon]

My depressing view of human civilization is that any human group of more than a couple dozen people will eventually lapse into authoritarianism. Freedom only exists in the transient when something disrupts the current hierarchy and only lasts until the new hierarchy is established.

The illusion of freedom over the 100 years or so is a result of disruptions coming one after another two quickly for the hierarchy to finish reestablishing itself.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I wholeheartedly agree with that. I'll even posit that such intellectual laziness is hard-wired, after all, brain activity burns precious calories.

[db]

When the natives rub blue mud in their belly buttons...

[Tonio]

+1 Heinlein

[Auric Demonocles]

Good luck man. I just got off of OKCupid again. Make sure to update/refine your profile if you've been off it for a while.

I found that women in Boston either didn't care about your politics or thought you were evil for not being liberal. I came across a lot of conservatives, but none of them felt the need to bash liberals or exclude them from their dating pool. I also found one who explicitly self identified as a libertarian, but she wasn't interested.

I ended up with the situation I was hoping for: she doesn't want to talk politics, but the one time the subject came up she said that Obama has really sucked since he got elected.

[A Serious Man]

Didn't you say you had a date with a former student you used to have when you were a TA? How'd that go?

[Auric Demonocles]

It got postponed due to the "lockdown" but then we met up at a bar after it ended. Made out and it was pretty hot, except she wasn't into biting. We went on another date but I decided she was boring me too much, and this other girl was getting my attention anyway.

[AuH20]

Yeah. I really do need to redo some sections. Ugh. Its like writing a fucking resume for dating.

Beets singles groups though.

[Auric Demonocles]

There's a subreddit that seems pretty good for it.

[AuH20]

So, I should try out this reddit thing sometime I suppose.

And which thing? Dating I assume, but help with writing Ok profiles might not hurt either.

[PapayaSF]

Just be yourself, good or bad. By this I don't mean mentioning prison terms or whatever, but avoid all the standard blather. Pretty much everyone likes to eat in restaurants, so don't waste words on stuff like that.

On OKC I have often encountered very left-wing, very intolerant women. How could I not believe that the government should provide health care for everyone? How could I not object to Citizens United? They are often bright but so far in the liberal bubble that they really can't even understand what the opposing arguments are.

[Auric Demonocles]

There's one specifically for OKCupid. It's the reason I originally started lurking reddit, but now I'm mostly there for the NFL sub.

There's also some for dating in general, but I meant the OKC one specifically.

[Tonio]

Sorry, Goldie.

Anyway, what that means is that they have team identification but don't think about it, don't want to talk about it and certainly don't want their ideas challenged.

[Hyperion]

Don't talk about politics when you're online dating. Just leave that as 'none' or something like that.

Only talk about politics AFTER you scored all the poon you want, or until, if you insist, have established a solid relationship.

[Auric Demonocles]

The idea is to weed out people that your long term relationship would fail with based on that earlier.

[Hyperion]

If that is what you are specifically looking for, then ok.

My approach was a lot different. In the years after I was divorced, I decided to not intentionally look for anything serious. So I weeded out talking about anything that might preclude just finding a good sex partner or just a friend. I found plenty of both, and eventually, quite by accident, found my wife.

I have a difficult time talking politics with her to this day. But our relationship is a success, in spite of that. I think she's a typical woman politically. One day, she's a Libertarian, the next day, not so much.

[AuH20]

Eh, I like the LTR thing. Its... comforting.

[AuH20]

I never bring it up on messages. Hell, I think I am officially listed as "Other". But it tends to come up on the first or second date, yeah. Mostly they ask, honestly, but I basically pull a, "I am this, but ask whatever issue is near and dear to your heart and I will explain my position."

Most of the questions are social crap. Gay marriage-abortion. Sometimes schools are brought up. Rarely much else.

[WomSom]

I dont think Obama really cares one way or the other.

http://www.GoGetAnon.tk

[meta]

just curious is the song Beast by Nico Vega simply an anti-government song or does it include the parasites of government "help" as a beast as well? Great song but not sure of what its message is besides the fact its anti-government.

[meta]

heres the link if i did it right--
http://youtu.be/k7OYLVznNvQ

[AuH20]

The descriptions of the towns in Alaska I think were the best. A town of barely 30 people basically converts into a full serve restaurant for the mushers, kids get off school, everyone stays up all night. And the description of Nome as something out of a steampunk novel was great.