The Importance of Allowing People to Say That You Can't Be a Gay Basketball Player and a Christian


Navratilova's Tweet was pretty sweet. |||

You have probably heard the news that mediocre but long-lasting NBA backup center Jason Collins today became the first active professional men's team sports player to come out as gay. Read his Sports Illustrated essay if you haven't.

Since then, commentary from his fellow basketball players, from politicians (including President Barack Obama), and from journalists has been overwhelmingly positive (just click on Deadspin and scroll down). One of the few exceptions has been ESPN commentator Chris Broussard, who said:

If you're openly living that type of lifestyle, then the Bible says you know them by their fruits. It says that, you know, that's a sin. If you're openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be, not just homosexuality, whatever it may be, I believe that's walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. So I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I don't think the Bible would characterize them as a Christian.

Broussard is predictably getting beaten to a rhetoric pulp on Twitter. And while I think today is a wonderful, watershed day for people (especially the artist formerly known as Ron Artest) to live as open and free as they wanna be, I agree with the New York Post editorial Robert George here:

Chris Broussard spoke what more than a few players feel. If such comments aren't expressed, a real conversation can't be had.

Subtle headline.|||

One of the fascinating and valuable thing about Jackie Robinson's 1964 book about baseball desegregation and civil rights, which I wrote about two weeks ago, was that baseball's pioneer gave space in his oral history for whites who didn't agree with the federal civil rights push that Robinson was fighting for. Here, for example, is shortstop-turned redass manager Alvin Dark:

I feel that too many people are trying to solve the Southerners' problems before they solve their own problems in the North. In Chicago, in New York and other cities where they're having racial problems—if these problems were solved by the Northerners or people from the West who come down South, if they would take care of their own problems first and let the Southerners work it out I know they would work it out, because there are a lot of people in the South that feel that everyone's a human being, a son of God, if they are Christians, all born equally. I feel that right now it's being handled a bit too fast. […] Being a Christian, I feel that this will be solved one day in the South. But they're rushing it a little bit too quick right now.

Now, there is no doubt that Jackie Robinson vehemently disagreed with this go-slow sentiment, but he also understood that you can't always persuade fence-sitters through a two-handed chest-shove.* And sometimes engaging with the I'm not ready to go that far just yet crowd brings out the best in activists. See, for example, Martin Luther King's "Letter From a Birmingham Jail."

Talk about a crossover dribble! |||

Jason Collins in his essay from today talked about how former NBA great Tim Hardaway had come around from being a rhetorical gay-basher to a strong supporter of gay rights. The country is changing fast, and while many of us are yelling faster!, it's important to recognize that a lot of people feel uncomfortable about it all. Better to have that conversation out loud, than let it fester.

* Interestingly, the same year Robinson's book was published, Alvin Dark was widely accused of being racist after criticizing his largely minority San Francisco Giants team for making "dumb" plays. According to this article published by the Society for American Baseball Research, the alleged racist had an important black friend:

Jackie Robinson quickly rushed to Dark's defense. The two had been friends since their playing days, and Robinson told the New York Times that he had "known Dark for many years, and my relationships with him have always been exceptional. I have found him to be a gentleman, and above all, unbiased. Our relationship has not only been on the baseball field but off it. We played golf together."

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  1. John called it. It’s a bid for attention, and it appears to have worked.

    1. Its a bid for a new free agent contract. He is up at the end of this year and his expected payout must have just shot up a couple million. Plus endorsement deals are going to be flung at him for a few years.

      His agent is brilliant.

      1. I am still surprised the first Out athlete was black. I figured it would be some white quarterback or Hispanic baseball player somewhere.

        1. I’m going to enjoy the vapors when people realize that, while many black celebrities and such are quite okay with people being gay, they do not speak for a rather large segment of the black population.

          Like, the little old grandmas who go to Tyler Perry movies are going to let their opinions be heard in the neighborhoods in no uncertain terms.

          Heroic Mulatto, I wanna watch this with popcorn, but I am not black and no of no black blogs, news sources, etc. Hook a brother up?

          1. Same goes for Hispanics.

          2. To be fair, that’s true of pretty much all racial and ethnic groups regarding celebrities vs. the general population. I would say that white acceptance of gay marriage and homosexuality in general probably has a higher variance by region than for other groups

      2. Indeed.

      3. And the man’s got balls too.

      4. And if by some chance he doesn’t get any offers from anyone, he can now claim that he’s being discriminated against for being homosexual. The timing is nothing short of genius.

    2. But could there ever been a good time for him to come out. He came out to his twin brother just last year. I feel like if Collins came out after signing as a free agent people would say “Well, he didn’t do this until after he signed a contract, how can you trust him etc, etc”

      Also, if people want to single out the person in this story who is seeking attention, it is Chris Broussard. His whole reason for existence on ESPN is to garner attention. He is practically paid to be a concern troll.

      1. Chris Broussard is a concern troll? Every time until this time that I have heard him speak it has been about on the court basketball or basketball related transactions. He’s not Stephen A. or Skip Clueless. This comment may be a bad one, but it’s hardly his MO during his appearances with the Worldwide Leader.

        (And I have no reason to defend him other than to set the record straight.)

  2. Wait, Metta World Peace is Ron Artest?

    1. yeah dude, where you have been?

      1. Not watching basketball, I guess.

        1. I was at Pacers-PistonsMania 2004, so I’ve always had a cursory interest in Metta.

          1. Wait, they never found the fan who threw the beer that started it all…


            I bet you killed Kennedy too.

            1. She’s not dead, she even has a book coming out!

  3. FRUITS!!

  4. I don’t agree with Broussard, but he’s right about what the bible says. I also think the bible is full of stuff that doesn’t make any sense, but it is what it is.

    I don’t understand the hate for Broussard, he’s just explaining the facts behind the theology. The Catholic Church leaders have been abundantly clear about the official ruling, and Broussard is just stating fact.

    1. Concur. It cracks me up when I hear about gay Christians. like, really? There are better religions out there for you, man.

      1. Yeah, I don’t get it. There isn’t a “gay-friendly” bible, and no matter how people try and manipulate the words to show that “JESUS LOVED EVERYONE NO MATTER WHAT” the fact is -as Broussard mentions- the Church is against sex prior to marriage period, regardless if its gay or otherwise.

        I’m sure Jesus loved everyone, but he didn’t write the bible, nor is he Pope.

        1. Yeah. Gay Catholics do not make a supreme amount of sense… except I was raised Catholic, and totally get it.

          Look, we’re Catholic. We get to think the Church is wrong on birth control and fuck like rabbits without producing kids. But we don’t tell our priests and we keep it to ourselves, thank you very much!


      2. Eh, I understand gay Christians. Let’s be honest: The Bible isn’t exactly great on its idea of how one should go about treating women either but there are plenty of women Christians.

        They just do what most Christians do: Ignore the parts they don’t like. Like when God orders genocide on I’m almost certain multiple occasions. Or like when Jesus tells people to give up their shit, make themselves holy before the end, and that he has come to literally rip apart the traditional family unit (which is basically one of the most radical ideas you could put fourth in that society).

        1. I am not here to judge how people worship, that’s none of my business. But I get annoyed when people complain that the Church needs to “modernize” not because I have any love lost for the Catholic Church, but because I also feel that the Church has a right to say “look, we’ve been saying this for like 2000 years and we aren’t changing.”

          If you don’t like it, worship God in some other way, there are plenty of options. It’s the equivalent of complaining that there aren’t enough male waters at Hooters. DUDE IT’S A FUCKING HOOTERS, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

          1. Oh, yeah, fair enough. It’s just The Catholic Church and Christianity haven’t been synonyms since, oh, 1518. And that is a top of my head number I am too lazy to google. But it wasn’t the Theses which necessarily pissed the Church off. Wasn’t the official split until the Pope and Martin Luther met and basically told each other to fuck off?

            1. Yeah, I thought it was the whole Martin Luther thingy. I’m not a theologian. I think isms in general are pretty dumb at this point in time.

              1. I mean, it started with Luther posting the theses but as I recall the Pope had a meeting with him and it was basically, “If you say you’re very sorry we can leave this all behind us.”

                I mean, the ideas were out there, and Calvin was going to come along anyway, so it probably wouldn’t have matted.

                This may be an impression I only have from Europa Universalis mods where if you play your cards right you can avoid the split by getting a Martin Luther-like reformer elected Pope.

                1. Nice to see another EU fan. EU4 is looking pretty good…

                2. Never mind Calvin – Henry the 8th was going to come along anyway. He was going to want all that wealth in England’s Catholic churches, not to mention a divorce, irrespective of Germany’s political problems.

                  1. There were lots of trends in Europe’s political and theological milieu, none of which was enough by itself to spark the Reformation. Like most things in history, the Reformation was a logical — but not inevitable — response to

                    1. *response to circumstances in place.

          2. Also, other thought: How is there not a Hooters equivalent out there for gay guys? I mean, 4 locations along the West Coast alone (Portland, Seattle, San Fran, LA) could rake in a ton of money. You hire some Chippendales rejects, make ’em wear short shorts and no shirt, and you serve gay dudes who wanna have some beer and wings eye candy and overpriced food.

            And, yeah, I realize I have posted a ton of comments asking about gay culture. I guess because my primary exposure to the LGBTQ culture stuff primarily comes from a feminist/lesbian/Jezebel and the like perspective, and they just argue, are super monogamous or incredibly promiscuous, and talk about their feelings. Oh, and constantly throw out accusations that someone is othering them. I actually have a great post for tomorrow’s AM links about butch lesbians and rape culture. The comments devolve into an epic flame war thanks to a very pissed off tranny and the appearance of a gay man (Who at least this site of lesbians KOS)

            1. Well, the idea is out there.

              Amy Schumer has a take on it-


              I think it needs some work.

        2. Could you fill in the gaps in my theological knowledge and show the part in the Bible about men beating their wives?

          1. Maybe not necessarily beating their wives, but I doubt even ancient Jewish society could have lived up to some of the crazy ass laws in Leviticus and Deutoronomy.

            I mean, I know it couldn’t. That’s why God is always sending a prophet to warn them how sinful they are, etc.

            1. Many of these requirements need the Temple in order to be enforced. For the rest, they’re not my thing, but at least if you’re trying to follow the Mosaic law you’re not unknowingly committing Three Felonies A Day, as in some legal systems where the laws are so numerous and confusing.

          2. Here ya go Eddie, and I would recommend you put the drink down before reading these.


            1. Amusing, thank you (I guess).

              1. It wasn’t meant to offend anyone, so please don’t take it as so. In fact I think Pinkerton explains his agnostic preference well with this clip from the review of The Book of Haggai-

                Still, the Christian defense does make an extremely strong point. A universe created by a superior being is, and let’s be honest, really no less ridiculous than a universe that slipped on a comet and accidentally created itself. A superior entity might well exist, most likely in a way we’ll never get close to comprehending. What if the Big Bang had consciousness? Is consciousness even a pre-requisite for omnipotence? Arguing about who has to prove what seems to miss the point, which is that if anyone could actually prove anything, we wouldn’t have anything to squabble about in the first place.

                1. I like Pinkerton, actually. Taking your religion seriously means you gotta poke fun at it every once in a while, I think.

                  Of course, the welts on my arm from where my wife slaps me when I make an off-color joke at the expense of the Sunday sermon might be evidence to the contrary, heh.

          3. I’m feeling lazy tonight, but back in my mis=spent youth as an aspiring (gasp) Christian *, I seem to recall having read a letter from Paul to the effect that wives should obey they husbands and slaves their masters. Not exactly beating, but a matter of quantity, not type, if you ask me.

            * I got better.

            1. He also said husbands should love their wives.

              Also that masters should treat slaves well-there’s actually an interesting story about how Christian influence turned the Western world away from slavery. Since slavery has been such a common human phenomenon, I think it’s the absence, not the presence of slavery, which requires some explanation.

            2. I always found that one to be an amusing case of Christians self-servingly reading Scripture to match up with their biases.

              I mean, the paragraph in that letter right before the “wives submit to your husbands” bit tells all Christians to “Look carefully then how you walk[…] submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.”

              FFS, that’s the sentence right before “Wives, submit to your husbands”. Pretty sure Paul knew how to logically construct a letter.

  5. Nobody called me brave when I came out as a low carber.


    1. That’s because you’re obviously a danger to society. Government agents have been dispatched to put you back on the right dietary path.

      1. (Knock-knock.)
        (Crash! Blam! Blam!) “I shot the dog because it was threatening me!”
        . . . “I don’t have a dog in the house.”
        “I shot the cat because it was threatening me!”
        . . . “Yeah, it was disdaining you to death.”

  6. So, what’s up with NBA backup journeyman centers and being gay?

    John Armicci, now Jason Collins.

    Also, gay reasonoids, a question. Don’t these guys basically always have to be the receptive partner if they are into anal?

    Let me put it this way. I am pretty well endowed. To the point that I have never had a female partner who would agree to receptive (to be fair, that is like of 5 partners total, so I may not really be that impressive). Now, these NBA centers are about a foot taller than me, have huge hands and feet, etc. They are almost certainly very, very well endowed. To the point where I assume even penis-in-vagina stuff is probably pleasurable but their ladies walk really funny the next day. And that is a vagina, which is designed to self-lubricate and to stretch to allow children out.

    Like, wouldn’t them ass-fucking a dude cause serious damage, even with lube? I mean, it isn’t like the anal cavity is designed to be terrible stretchy.

    I get they could just do non-penetrative stuff, but these guys would have a lot of trouble getting deep throated (although I do believe deep throating is the laziest of “good” blow job methods. I mean, if you have me deep in your throat, use a little tongue woman. Stimulation is key. Don’t just shove it down your throat and work the base with you hand! I do more than that on you!)

    And this has been: Goldwater asks sexually inappropriate questions and tells you way too much about his sex life!

    1. You are thinking way, way, way too deeply about this.

      1. You know how in movies or shows set in the past, there is one character who always comically doesn’t understand how two women or two men could possibly have sex?

        Ever since I first got denied anal for size reasons, that has been me and gay male anal sex. I am not gay, I have no desire to watch gay male porn to actually conduct a study because… ew. Not my cup o’ tea. But, say I meet a gay male couple. I always assume that the one who is bigger and burlier and seems more like a top MUST be the receptive partner. It’s sheer physics man!

        Yeah, I get that me being obsessed by this probably makes me a little gay.

        1. Chycks get off on circumference, not length.

          1. Some chicks (mine included) like getting that cervix nudged.

          2. Yeah. I know. Believe you me, I know.

            /No Choadmo.

            1. Dude, poke around and I am sure you can find some videos of someone taking a baseball bat in the ass…there are men out there who can receive massive penises.

        2. Now, Goldwater, it’s entirely possible you really are a freak, but denying anal for size reasons makes no sense to me. I mean it’s not like the anus is normally just sitting there being dick-sized anyway, so it is made to stretch, and unless you’re in some whole other ballpart from other dicks, I don’t get it.

          Sorry, I feel like I’m not validating your lived experience or something. But you’re going to get all into it and then not tell us how big your junk is and I’m supposed to judge based on that? 😉

          1. Yeah, size issues is why there is no anal in porn.

            1. Exactly.

            2. Eh, I’ve always been a lesbian porn kind of guy. It honestly is starting to sound like sheer lack of exposure.

              1. Ah, yeah, that makes a little more sense then. Just check out a sex toy website or something and see how big the bum toys are, if you don’t want to get into the actual porny side of it.

                1. Oh, I’ve checked out sex toy sites for bum toys. Just not for use on a girl. 😉

                  1. I do remember you implying something along those lines the other day. In which case, WHY are you having such a hard time imagining?

                    1. I am still amazed that this website allows conversations like this to go on, even after months of posting here.

                      I have never seen another political site that would be like ‘well, they’re talking about anal again. Whatever!’

                    2. Because, due to the locations of various male parts in that area, you just don’t need to go super big. Like, 6, 7 inches and you are getting to be pretty big in my book. You can honestly have a lot of fun with 4 or 5. And they tend to be more length than real girth.

                      Maybe I just suffer from a small anal cavity and a lack of watching anal porn.

                      Also, can I just say, I feel this is one of the best discussions reason has ever engaged in?

                    3. I mean, I guess I have seen some pretty big ones in porn. Which for some reason has no market for anything but domme-y stuff. Is it too hard to ask, “Hey, we’re a loving couple, and today we’re going to switch roles between fucker and fuckee. I mean, we won’t insult each other or anything, because this isn’t that kind of porn. Maybe a little role play, maybe a smack on the ass or two, but nothing gimp mask level.”

                      I mean, for rls intertubes. You are supposed to be able to cater to literally every porn taste.

                    4. Is it too hard to ask, “Hey, we’re a loving couple, and today we’re going to switch roles between fucker and fuckee. I mean, we won’t insult each other or anything, because this isn’t that kind of porn. Maybe a little role play, maybe a smack on the ass or two, but nothing gimp mask level.”

                      And for that I give you:


                    5. Yeah. I know that tumblr, but saw it was taken down recently. Back up? Awesome.

                      Although, once again, I do wish everything didn’t look like it was shot on a Clover-field style cell phone.

                    6. It’s difficult to make your own porn with quality angles, closeups and editing without having a cameraman.

                      Having another person in the room watching you have sex is a whole ‘nother level of convincing.

                    7. “Hey, we’re a loving couple, and today we’re going to switch roles between fucker and fuckee.”

                      Dude – its called pegging and there’s a ton of it.

                    8. Also, can I just say, I feel this is one of the best discussions reason has ever engaged in?


                      So, one of the things that made me suggest the toys, was that you will see some that are real wide. Like, real wide. Not necessarily long also, but motherfucking wide. They’re going in someone.

                      I mean if it were me, well, not really, because this is totally unromantic and impossible, but the question is really: girl, have you never taken a shit this big? I mean you can’t ask that but maybe you can figure out a way to imply that she has in fact had something that big in her ass before. Probably a lot.

                      Also I lost your porn train a little below because I wasn’t sure if you were still talking about girl on girl but it sounds like you are looking for amateur type stuff no? I mean that sounds like…well, it sounds like something you should be able to find.

                    9. Yeah, amateur stuff is what I’m looking for. Sadly, the video quality I have generally found is utter and total crap.

                    10. the question is really: girl, have you never taken a shit this big?

                      Ice Cube would beg to differ.

                    11. Also, can I just say, I feel this is one of the best discussions reason has ever engaged in?

                      How do I always end up late to these things?

                      girl, have you never taken a shit this big?

                      That pretty much sums it up. If she’s terrified it’s going to hurt, it’s going to hurt, a lot. Some rimming, foreplay, lube and a lot of slow going to start up and it’ll be fun for everyone. Worst case scenario pick up poppers at your local sex shop; better relaxing through chemistry!

                    12. Yeah, it’s all about the mindset.

                      Also, if you’re having problems, you might want to try doing it facing each other. You’d think this would be harder but “I’ve heard” the angle might be better at least for some people/circumstances/etc. It also might be easier for her to relax lying on her back.

                    13. Well, I’ve only done it receiving as also facing. It is a bit more intimate. I mean, what can I say? If I’m going to be fucked, I like to be kissed on the mouth a little.

                      The real problem: Slippage. The girl really has no sensation (Feeldoe and the like help, but just on a basic level she lacks a dick with nerve endings), so until you get the angle and speed going you are going to be saying, “Stop. Wait. Adjust.” A lot.

                    14. Oh, also, key if you give a mouse a cookie problem: If you give a woman a strap on dildo, she will want to swing it around and knock things over with it and generally prove Freud to be somewhat right.

                      Its like if you are hiking with a gal and she is using one of those things that help you pee standing up. Not having had this ability for most of her life, she will not use it very responsibly.

          2. As I said, maybe it is a wrong impression from dating some chicks who wouldn’t have liked anal. Or entirely possible that despite, or maybe because of, my looks, I should move out to California and get into the porn industry and be the next Ron Jeremy.

            Sidenote: I saw a fascinating doc on Jeremy a few years ago that finally explained why a guy so fat and ugly did so many pornos. Basically, due to the male refractory period, porn values (or used to, apparently Viagra has changed the game) in male stars what the doc referred to as “good wood”. Basically, if you get a two-pump chump, you have to stop the shoot, let the actress clean up and the actor recover, which adds to cost. Jeremy is so good that the doc actually shows him doing a countdown to his orgasm. Like a “10…9….8” that he can apparently perform with such regularity that the entire film crew actually joins in.

            He also explains his strategy for this a bit in the documentary, saying he doesn’t jack off the day before the shoot, and definitely not the day of. Its kind of like hearing Keith Rirchards describe his drug taking strategy. And yes, now I want to believe that in the 70s, there was someone who apprenticed to Jeremy in porn and Richards in drugs.

            1. I have heard that about Jeremy as well.

              As for the chicks, if you get a willing one, there are also lots of good drugs for this stuff. Take some painkillers, benzos, I mean even poppers if you can’t get something better, and it’s easier to relax and whatnot. I mean, not you, her.

          3. Of course Nikki the Anal Queen has to weigh in on this.

            1. I am here to help a CT brother out!

  7. Tolerance is all about not tolerating the intolerant.

    1. Uh, you’re being sarcastic, right?

      1. Positively sarcasmic!

  8. “Jason Collins in his essay from today talked about how former NBA great Tim Hardaway had come around from being a rhetorical gay-basher to a strong supporter of gay rights.”

    Did Hardaway really become a huge supporter of gay rights, or did Hardaway just get tired of being treated like Chris Broussard is being treated now?

    1. Did George Wallace eventually come around on integration or did he just eventually accept the situation on the ground?

      1. According to some accounts George Wallace wasn’t all that big on segregation in the first place. It was more a matter of going along with it to get and stay elected.

        Pretty much all of the old segregationists who stayed in politics “came around” in the end. How much of that was due to “accept[ing] the situation on the ground” only they know.

        1. The one redeeming quality of a naked scheming opportunist is that they are much more predictable than the true believer.

          1. Counterpoint: LBJ

      2. “You know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened. And then I began talking about niggers, and they stomped the floor.”-George Wallace

        The thing about Wallace was he didn’t really care either way. But it got him elected.

  9. Funny story – when I was a kid, I thought Alvin Dark WAS black.

    1. You might be thinking of Alvin Davis.

  10. Tolerance is great, but companies are rarely tolerant of employees causing them troubles.

  11. After all the effort the NFL and NHL put into being preemptively gay-friendly, and the NBA of all leagues gets the prize.

  12. Am I a bad person for not caring? Should I be more sympathetic?

    1. It’s headlines targeted for teh Blacks and Midwest rubes.

    2. I basically won’t care until an actual superstar comes out. Collins has everything to gain and nothing to lose. He gets run out of the league on a rail, everyone will feel sorry for him and paens will be penned about the homophobia still rampant in sports. If he stays, he gets endorsement deals from every brand that wants to appear gay-friendly.

      So, let’s say worse case scenario some homophobic player gives Collins a season ending injury on a hard foul. Think of this as the equivalent of throwing at Robinson’s head.

      See, the thing is, because in a lot of cases (actually, basketball not being one of them), sports journalists are more liberal than the people they cover (hockey, baseball, football). So, if anyone says word one, they will get crucified in the media. If anyone even breathes on him too hard, they will get crucified.

      But if a Lebron James comes out?

      Well, that is interesting. Because all of these brands use guys like James, or football middle linebackers, to sell things like beer or cars to mostly straight young men, relying on the stars masculinity and manly prowess to help sell the product. Our culture has some problems still with accepting gay alongside masculinity (there is a reason that the only kinda bear on TV is Max from Happy Endings). But you know that the reaction from frat boys to a star middle line backer or a Lebron going to kiss his husband after winning a championship may well be, “EW! Gross! Fuck that guy!”

      1. … to sell things like beer…

        Unless you haven’t noticed, active-roster pro athletes haven’t endorsed beer, liquor, or cigarette products since the late 1970’s.

        1. Wait…. I could have SWORN I saw a magazine ad with Jeter a few years back endorsing some scotch or something.

  13. Why are we so concerned about the Boston Lockdown and militarized police? Before 9/11 and militarized cops we had no gay sports players. We are becoming freer than ever!

  14. So it’s important to be able to talk freely about Christianity and gays, and the way to do so is comparing someone who supports the Christian position on sodomy to some guy who wasn’t fully supportive of civil rights in 1964?

    OK, sure, let’s have that discussion. This Dark fellow at least was right about Northerners being hypocrites. And today the South is a popular place to move to, in contrast with such havens of tolerance as New York and California.

    And if you think this Broussard guy is having a hard time, wait until the gay-rights folks find out Reason’s position on the prerogatives of private companies to discriminate against gay people.

    1. Well, given that parts of the Midwest were talked about to be exclusively for white people (As I recall Minnesota was part of it) and just the whole Boston busing thing- yeah, the North was being very hypocritical.

      Eh, I figure the gay rights movement gets marriage and simply because it is in the 64 civil rights act, maybe public accommodations. The second will cause a shit storm.

      But if you go deep into the movement, towards the more trans*(yeah, its the way they want to be referred to now, I guess because some people just want to not id as male or female vs. people who want to actively change their sex organs) side of things, you descend into awesome, feminist inspired, OWS shit. Oh, and they are the most perpetually aggrieved group you will ever meet. They will has quite a sad when they realize that no one fucking likes dealing with participatory democracy. Its why SNCC and the SDS eventually basically died as political movements.

      Oh, and in SNCC’s case, racism. I had a class in college taught by a very passionate former SNCC member. These people are fucking nuts.

  15. Sometimes man you just gotta hit it up man!

  16. So, re: gay male anal sex.

    Well now I know!

    1. Its going to be funny when in a year Colbert gets her ass kicked by a halfway sane Republican. Many liberals will haz a sadz.

      The SC GOP isn’t going to fuck around next time.

      1. It would be nice if Tom Davis got the nod. He’s not perfect but so far he seems better than most in regards to liberty.

  17. I do think it should be said that while Broussard has a right to voice his opinion, people also have the right to criticize him for it, and ESPN (if they so decide) has every right to suspend or fire him.

    1. Very true. But it feels like when Michael Richards dropped the N-bomb and it seems like an instant lynch mob form. Which is… irony?

      1. I just don’t see why we need to hear about a sports reporter’s personal views on homosexuality on a sports how. Not only does no one care, but as his employer, I wouldn’t want him to piss off a pretty large group of viewers and cause bad publicity. I do understand why ESPN is probably upset about this

        1. I don’t know that he’s necessarily reporting “his” views so much as the possible backlash that one might expect and the root of that reaction.

          When a reporter of any kind offers his views, we often refer to this as “analysis,” and its the reason guys like Krugman have jobs.

          1. “I don’t know that he’s necessarily reporting “his” views so much as the possible backlash that one might expect and the root of that reaction.”

            I could be wrong, but I don’t think that’s the case in this situation.

            “When a reporter of any kind offers his views, we often refer to this as “analysis,” and its the reason guys like Krugman have jobs.”

            Not exactly a good thing

            1. Not exactly a good thing

              obv I agree, and that’s why I picked that example. My point though is that often the organization pays people to offer their opinions, and often they get paid to stir the pot since that’s what leads to eyeballs on screens.

  18. I wish there was some way to unread a thread.

    1. You and me both, sister!

      1. It occurs to me that you both probably could have stopped reading that thread the instant the word ‘anal’ was uttered.

        If you kept reading after Goldwater’s first post, then I have no sympathy for you.

      2. I have horrified Welch.

        Welp, looks like my work here done.

  19. Gosh, it seems I missed a key subthread.

  20. …and not a single fuck was given that day.

  21. Man, I’ve been cool with gay black folks since Lamar did his rap at that Tri Lamb talent show.

  22. Great post, Matt. Thanks for the shout-out!

  23. “…You can’t always persuade fence-sitters through a two-handed chest-shove.”

    “Fence-sitters”? Is that what we’re calling homophobes and other bigots now? Either we’re all drinking from the same water fountain or we’re not. Either we all have equal rights, or we don’t. There is no in-between.

    And insisting that getting in their face and confrontational with them won’t persuade them is just an utter fail statement, for two reasons. First, being gentle with them never persuades them. In fact, all it does is validate their bigotry as a legitimate belief.

    But second, and more important, persuading them isn’t important. We’re fighting for equality, and fighting to not let them keep whoever they hate oppressed as second-class citizens. That is the goal, and if the “fence-sitters” *spit* have a problem with that, tough.

  24. Kudos to this unheard of until now NBA player for coming out of the closet. However, as a gay man, I find everything about the politicalization of sexuality disturbing–and even embarrassing. First, I question the motives of the left wing’s fawning over gay people like J. Collins. I’ve never seen a difference between hating someone or loving someone merely because of his or her sexuality. I don’t trust them as far as I can throw them,. Second, I fear a major backlash. Don’t think so? Okay, I agree, the United States, despite the Left Wing stereotype, is not a very backlashing or rioting type of country. But over in France, which is pegged to be so oo-la-la uber cool and liberal, they’ve had some of the worst anti-gay attacks and riots for the past several months in the world. It’s received very little coverage in the US media (particularly the gay US media–we must protect France’s image, after all), but the ramifications of shoving socialism down people’s throats for decades, to no avail, and about the only thing the much maligned government can come up with during fiscal and social crisis is gay marriage, I’d riot too. Innocent gays are the targets. It will happen in the United States. The Left Wing has not and is not doing gay people any favors.

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