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White House Done with Drone Revelations, Mexico, Ireland, Among Countries Lobbying for U.S. Immigration Reform, Gang Uncovered in LA County Sheriff's Department: P.M. Links

Ed Krayewski | 2.7.2013 4:30 PM

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  • The White House says it will provide the legal opinions underpinning the policy that governs killing U.S. citizens. Senator Ron Wyden wants those memos declassified, but the White House says no more information will be made public. The White House even resisted releasing even the white paper leaked earlier this week, rejecting a FOIA request for it less than two weeks ago. John Brennan's confirmation hearing for CIA director, meanwhile, was interrupted by a Code Pink protester trying to draw attention to drone killings.

  • The FAA has released the most updated list of local jurisdictions authorized to use drones; there are 81, including municipalities, colleges and even an Indian tribe.
  • Mexico, Ireland and several Central American countries are lobbying Congress as well as the White House for immigration reform.
  • New unemployment claims dropped by 5,000 last week, according to government statistics.
  • The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department has found a gang among its deputies. No, not the whole department.
  • Two storm systems are converging on the Northeast, bringing the possibility of record-breaking snowfall.
  • Spray paint could heat up asteroids headed for Earth enough to alter their courses.

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NEXT: Rand Paul Continues Criticism of Hillary Clinton

Ed Krayewski is a former associate editor at Reason.

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  1. A Serious Man   13 years ago

    Mexico, Ireland and several Central American countries are lobbying Congress as well as the White House for immigration reform.

    All right, we'll take the Latinos and the Asians, but we don't want the Irish!

    1. Alack   13 years ago

      +1 Rock Ridge

    2. Episiarch   13 years ago

      NO IRISH NEED APPLY

    3. Mike M.   13 years ago

      I see we're got serious competition in the browser refresh race now. F.O.E. is going to have to step up his game.

  2. Fist of Etiquette   13 years ago

    The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department has found a gang among its deputies.

    I wonder what signal they flash.

    1. BakedPenguin   13 years ago

      This?

  3. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

    LEGOs

    1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

      They've gotten absurdly expensive.

      1. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

        Linked article actually argues against that notion

        1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

          I know. I read it.

          1. Fist of Etiquette   13 years ago

            The price of construction material is down across the board.

            1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

              Yes, well, with fabricators being all the rage, I sit here laughing at Danish pretensions. Soon, I will be 3-D printing my own Legos at will, and there's nothing they can do about it!

              My own private space elevator will be a reality!

              1. Agammamon   13 years ago

                The RIAA would like to have a word with you.

                Out back, in the alley.

                1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

                  What, they're protecting blocks of plastic now? Ha!

                  1. Agammamon   13 years ago

                    They're expanding to cover all IP and taking a page from the mafia handbook - settling disputes with a pair of pliers and a 2x4.

        2. Certified Public Asskicker   13 years ago

          Can we at least agree Mega Blocks suck?

          1. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

            But they have Power Rangers!

            1. Certified Public Asskicker   13 years ago

              I raise you Ninja Turtles

              http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Tee.....es-ByTheme

          2. Brandon   13 years ago

            You mean 'tard Legos? Absolutely.

    2. Raston Bot   13 years ago

      I want to see some GoT-themed castle sets:

      Black Harran's Folly w/ roughed up whores and roast goat
      Castle Black w/ collapsing stair
      Tower of Joy w/ baby
      Sacked Winterfell
      White Harbor w/ head and hands nailed outside
      Sack of King's Landing
      Sacked Astapor
      Sacked Meereen
      Moat Cailin w/ 63 flayed men

      The kids will love it!

      man that's a violent series.

      1. Archduke Pantsfan   13 years ago

        I want a Red wedding playset

        1. Raston Bot   13 years ago

          Yes! can't forget The Twins.

  4. Fist of Etiquette   13 years ago

    Spray paint could heat up asteroids headed for Earth enough to alter their courses.

    I see a movie about NASA teaming up with private sector graffiti artists. Michael Bay to direct.

    1. Aresen   13 years ago

      Get out there and tag that asteroid!

      This might cause problems with certain "civic" groups.

    2. NeonCat   13 years ago

      (Very loud, bombastic voice) "Banksy? IN? SP-A-A-A-A-CEEE!"

      1. Agammamon   13 years ago

        Oh, sorry Banksy, we forgot to put air in your tank. Sigh, lloks like the world has lost a "great" "artist".

    3. Rich   13 years ago

      Pressurized cans in space? Please. It'll never happen.

      1. fish   13 years ago

        What? You don't think taggers need emergency thrusters?!

    4. Brett L   13 years ago

      I'm skeptical that the albedo would change that much.

      1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

        They mean high-gloss paint.

  5. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

    I'm still more concerned about the Pak protector being employed by the administration than about a little of the ol' drone process.

    1. db   13 years ago

      Maybe I'm being dense but I don't--
      OH. Brennan.

      1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

        Everyone would've gotten it when Virginia was editor.

      2. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

        That's his name, too. It was Jack in the book, but, of course, that means his real name was John Brennan.

        1. db   13 years ago

          Yeah, at first I was trying to figure out who in the Administration has a beak and loves sweet potatoes and then remembered the name.

    2. Drake   13 years ago

      If a Protector was employed by this Administration, wouldn't at least some of the things these they do be based on logic?

      1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

        He must be manipulating them in some sort of insanely subtle and brilliant way. It's not like a protector would be led around by a bunch of dumb breeders, after all.

        1. tarran   13 years ago

          he would if they controlled his access to the Tree of Life.

          1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

            Seriously, you think they could do that without him circumventing whatever they were doing to deny him access? You haven't been around many protectors, have you?

            1. tarran   13 years ago

              You haven't been around many protectors, have you?

              Darn! What gave me away?

              1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

                Here, smell some Tree of Live.

                1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

                  Life.

                  1. Drake   13 years ago

                    My joints are all fucked up and my hair is starting to fall out. It really is time.

  6. A Serious Man   13 years ago

    Former LAPD cop is on the loose and armed and dangerous after going on a violent rampage against people he believed led to his termination.

    What disturbs me is that his first two victims were murdered in Irvine less than a mile from where I live and his residence, according to the news, is also less than a mile from where my parents live. Scary world we live in.

    1. Brett L   13 years ago

      LA cops prove his point by shooting up two trucks that vaguely resemble his, injuring two women.

      1. A Serious Man   13 years ago

        Well they wouldn't be the LAPD if they didn't mistakenly target someone else.

        1. Episiarch   13 years ago

          I guess losing the status of "fuck you, that's why" is worth going on a killing rampage.

      2. db   13 years ago

        LAPD needs to call on their officers to stand down lest the mask slip too far.

      3. Zeb   13 years ago

        What the fuck? If they know who he is and what kind of truck he has, wouldn't they have the plate number? Or at least see that it isn't a large black man driving?

        1. Agammamon   13 years ago

          Could be a cover-up.

          The dude claims he's been fired as retaliation for reporting on misconduct of his peers.

      4. playa manhattan   13 years ago

        One of those was by the Torrance Police Department, which has a pretty well known reputation for that sort of thing.

        1. Cunctator   13 years ago

          My understanding of this is that while the shootings (of the wrong vehicles) took place in Torrance, it was LAPD on protection detail for one of the people mentioned in the manifesto.

          1. playa manhattan   13 years ago

            The shooting in Torrance was by LAPD on protection detail, the one in Redondo Beach on Beryl & Flagler was by the Torrance Police Department. It is their 2nd shooting of an unarmed person this week....

            1. db   13 years ago

              Shit, my sister in law used to live on Ripley, near Beryl and Flagler. Isn't there a playground right near there?

      5. fish   13 years ago

        Now to be fair there were dogs in the trucks.

    2. tarran   13 years ago

      More importantly, the LAPD appear to be lighting up any blue pickup truck they see:

      Beck said police were in the area on protection detail for one of the officials mentioned in the manifesto when authorities received information a vehicle matching the description of Dorner's was seen in the area. Police then observed a vehicle with its lights turned off and approached it, at which point the shooting occurred.

      Beck said the two people inside the vehicle were struck and taken to an area hospital. One person suffered a minor wound, Beck said, the other ? struck twice ? was listed in stable condition.

      Sources said the women were delivering newspapers.

      "Tragically, we believe this is a case of mistaken identity," Beck said.

      The second incident, which involved Torrance police officers, occurred at Flagler Lane and Beryl Street about 5:45 a.m., Chase said. No injuries were reported in that incident.

      Chase said both incidents involved vehicles matching the description of the one Dorner is believed to be driving.

      "Now it appears neither of them are directly related," Chase said. "In both of them, officers believed they were at the time."

      1. Brett L   13 years ago

        Too slow.

        1. tarran   13 years ago

          Bastard! I'll do you for that!

        2. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

          Look further down...

      2. VG Zaytsev   13 years ago

        They're blatantly trying to kill the guy and not take him in. And apparently don't care how many 'civilians' get murdered along the way.

        Maybe they're afraid of him talking.

        1. Brett L   13 years ago

          Yeah. Pretty much.

      3. Agammamon   13 years ago

        Wait, don't cops have networked computers in their cars that can check license plate numbers?

        1. Episiarch   13 years ago

          Elwood: I bet these cops got SCMODS.

          Jake: SCMODS?

          Elwood: State County Municipal Offender Data System.

    3. VG Zaytsev   13 years ago

      The story that's been released so far sounds like complete bullshit to me.

      Running gun battles with LAPD forty miles outside the city, and attempted boat jacking in SD where he dropped his badge and then immediately went to murder some Riverside cop. Throw in the police shooting two elderly Asian woman that were mistaken for the black suspect.

      1. Pudgeboy   13 years ago

        It is possible that one of his hobbies was dressing up as an elderly Asian ventriloquist. The cops thought the other woman was Mrs. Kim, the dummy.

    4. Eduard van Haalen   13 years ago

      The fugitive ex-cop has issued a manifesto which, for some reason, is being underplayed in the mainstream media.

      Samples of the rhetoric:

      "Mia Farrow said it best. "Gun control is no longer debatable, it's not a conversation, its a moral mandate."

      "Sen. Feinstein, you are doing the right thing in leading the re-institution of a national AWB. Never again should any public official state that their prayers and thoughts are with the family. That has become cliche' and meaningless. Its time for action. Let this be your legacy that you bestow to America. Do not be swayed by obstacles, antagaonist, and naysayers. Remember the innocent children at Austin, Kent, Stockton, Fullerton, San Diego, Iowa City, Jonesboro, Columbine, Nickel Mines, Blacksburg, Springfield, Red Lake, Chardon, Aurora, and Newtown. Make sure this never happens again!!!"

      http://www.soopermexican.com/2.....-comments/

      1. db   13 years ago

        Wow.

      2. Warty   13 years ago

        "And everybody else, shut up, and watch Terms of Enrampagement!"

        1. Brett L   13 years ago

          "Clearly, a working title."

        2. A Serious Man   13 years ago

          "Hmm, cock-flavored spit. Well you never know what's going to be on the board. Survey says!" (shoots Irish guy's kneecap)

        3. PS   13 years ago

          "Seriously, what is cancer?"

      3. Ice Nine   13 years ago

        He's pro-Obama? Man, there's a shocker.

      4. VG Zaytsev   13 years ago

        News regurgitator Bill Handel is reporting on the KFI radio show that news outlets have been specifically told to post a "redacted" version of the manifesto, in order to protect the names of the police men and women targeted by the murderer ? I will replace that portion with police names with the redacted version to protect them. However, it must be noted that the redacted version ALSO doesn't have the Obama and liberal references.

        But that's impossible, the press is totally independent of the government.

      5. Warty   13 years ago

        He has another manifesto where he comes across as almost reasonable.

        http://content.clearchannel.co.....213161.pdf

        1. playa manhattan   13 years ago

          That's part of the same manifesto. Just the 10 pages the media published. They left out the part where he praised Biden and Feinstein...

          1. Warty   13 years ago

            Ah, I see. No wonder that's what they released. Fuck, the second part makes it sound like he's going on a rampage to prove a point about gun control.

            1. playa manhattan   13 years ago

              Ironic, considering that he claims to own a Barrett .50, which has been illegal in California for a long time...

      6. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

        If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen.

        He clearly wasn't trained to not murder people. Mistakes were made. Procedures were followed.

      7. db   13 years ago

        Anyone have a link corroborating the redaction without making hay on a "pro-gay" stance the killer may or may not have? I want to send this to a bunch of folks but do not want that part muddying the waters of discussion.

        1. Warty   13 years ago

          I haven't found the full text anywhere without some right-wing commentary along with it. Just copy the manifesto text and email it to people.

          1. db   13 years ago

            I'm nervous about doing that in case it turns out to be a troll hoax. I'll wait until I see independent corroboration.

    5. Rich   13 years ago

      He's in that house!"

    6. playa manhattan   13 years ago

      The SBSD Swat team just shut down Bear Mountain Ski Resort in Big Bear to search for the suspect.

      Evidently, they think a 270 lb black man is trying to blend in at a ski resort...

      1. Rich   13 years ago

        RACIST!

  7. Fist of Etiquette   13 years ago

    ...was interrupted by a Code Pink protester trying to draw attention to drone killings.

    Points to those nutjobs for ideological consistency.

    1. Episiarch   13 years ago

      Frankly I'm astonished, but good on them.

      1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

        People have a deep fear of robot killer from space. Because of the race memory we have of our future extermination.

        1. neoteny   13 years ago

          Or maybe all those Australopithecus babies being snatched by large birds of prey...

  8. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

    "Washington is in a fit of collective terror over the "sequester," aka the impending across-the-board spending cuts. Trying to explain the zero economic growth at the end of 2012, White House spokesman Jay Carney blamed Republicans for "talk about letting the sequester kick in as though that were an acceptable thing." He left out that President Obama proposed the sequester in 2011."

    This is why I hate Obama's fucking, lying guts. What a piece of shit.

    1. Alack   13 years ago

      Look, Obama proposed the sequester because he knows that the Rethuglicans in Congress can only be motivated to reasonable compromise with Democrats when you threaten defense spending. It's not his fault that conservatives would rather let poor government beneficiaries die on the street than raise taxes; that's on them.

    2. Rich   13 years ago

      Hey, EAP, don't forget the classic: "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a Sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here'. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and Grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

    3. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

      talk about letting the sequester kick in as though that were an acceptable thing.

      Obama proposed the sequestration, he signed the sequestration into law, but it's the Republicans' fault?

      GGGGAAAHHHHH!!!! THE STUPID! IT BURNS!

  9. NeonCat   13 years ago

    I watched a very interesting History Detectives on PBS last night talking about Japanese balloon bombs used during WW2. I had heard about them before but had no idea they'd launched so many and gone so far (one got all the way to Toledo, apparently). I also didn't know we deployed P-61s to patrol for and shoot them down.

    http://video.pbs.org/video/1912239130

    1. Episiarch   13 years ago

      Weren't they trying to set fire to Pacific Northwest forests?

      1. NeonCat   13 years ago

        Yes, in fact they started a few fires and unfortunately killed some Sunday school picnickers who messed with a crashed one, not knowing what it was - the only domestic casualties of enemy action in WW2, I believe.

      2. Sevo   13 years ago

        Episiarch| 2.7.13 @ 4:36PM |#
        "Weren't they trying to set fire to Pacific Northwest forests?"

        That and western cities.

      3. Agammamon   13 years ago

        How do you set fire to a *rainforest*?

        1. T   13 years ago

          Anything burns if you get it hot enough.

        2. Episiarch   13 years ago

          When it doesn't rain for 89 days straight in the summer like last summer, forest fires happen. Like they did last year.

          1. Agammamon   13 years ago

            I thought you guys only gor 89 *non-rainy* days.

            1. Generic Stranger   13 years ago

              Yes, and those were all of them.

    2. John   13 years ago

      Elise Luray has a PHD in babeology.

    3. Sevo   13 years ago

      Screw it.
      Tried watching the 'non-commercial vid' link and got a commercial.

  10. db   13 years ago

    Two storm systems are converging on the Northeast, bringing the possibility of record-breaking snowfall.

    SUPERSTORM SUMBULLSHIT!

    1. Alack   13 years ago

      Nemo, actually. It's named Nemo.

      1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

        What's all this about naming non-hurricanes? What's next, naming rain showers?

        1. Rich   13 years ago

          Why do you hate tornadoes?

          1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

            Sorry, I'm busy naming the breeze that just went by.

            1. Rich   13 years ago

              OK. I understand that "Summer" has been retired.

              1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

                Then Jasmine it is.

              2. PS   13 years ago

                Liver 'n' Onions is the breeze people in Florida are hoping he'll retire.

  11. A Serious Man   13 years ago

    Scientists think they have an idea of : a small, insect-eating rodent-like animal.

    1. A Serious Man   13 years ago

      Bleh: scientists think that a small-insect-eating rodent is the mammal from which all mammals today are commonly related to.

  12. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

    That thing with the frat and the Asians at Duke

    Tasteless, but I dunno why this kind of thing merits national attention.

    I wish I went to Duke so I could pick up chicks at the rallies, though.

    1. John   13 years ago

      How the hell is a frat party at Duke a national news story? The media just hunts for anything that fits the narrative don't they?

      1. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

        But John, as we learned a couple of days ago, it's great when non-Muslim woman wear a burka.

    2. Brett L   13 years ago

      Because college Greek societies have always been known for their tasteful and understated class.

    3. Slammer   13 years ago

      I don't understand. Conical straw hats are NOT worn in Asia?

      1. Rich   13 years ago

        I once saw a white woman wearing one. Of course, she was elderly, so she was probably senile.

        1. fish   13 years ago

          And if I could find one I'd fucking wear it while I work in the yard.

    4. A Serious Man   13 years ago

      Quick! Somebody light the Jezebel signal!

      1. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

        Ugh...

        Duke University, an institute of higher learning that has notoriously low standards when it comes to offensive theme parties.

        You can link to one other example and hence it's "notorious" (maybe it is, but you get the point)?

        Perhaps national Greek Life leaders should take a pathetic page out of the GOP's book and teach their brethren to stop being so publicly racist... just as Republicans are now training politicians to shut up about rape.

        Isn't it great that whenever Republicans/conservatives/Boy Scouts/churches (etc) try to clean up their acts the same proggies who told them to get mad at them for doing so?

        1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

          Come on, if a British prince can dress as a Nazi, the standard for style has been set.

        2. Tonio   13 years ago

          Greek life? How dare those frat boys appropriate classical greco-roman culture?

          1. Episiarch   13 years ago

            TOGA! TOGA!

            1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

              Really, if these so-called "Greeks" were serious, they'd be out hopliting, spouting philosophy, and sodomizing each other. Like they do at Oxford.

              1. Episiarch   13 years ago

                "Why do it for real? It's easier and safer to fake it."

                "Because it has something that you don't have, Max. It has a philosophy. And that is what makes it dangerous."

          2. Heroic Mulatto   13 years ago

            How dare those frat boys appropriate classical greco-roman culture?

            Please, the only thing they've appropraited is the alphabet.

            And sodomy.

            1. Heroic Mulatto   13 years ago

              *appropriated

              1. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

                What about laziness and fiscal irresponsibility?

                Oh, wait, "classical"...

        3. Slammer   13 years ago

          Jezebel should probably stay away from Duke and Rape in the same conversation, since the whole Lacrosse thing

          1. Whahappan?   13 years ago

            Why? They have no shame, or self awareness, or consistency, or the ability to think, as opposed to emote.

    5. Rich   13 years ago

      The Brothers of Kappa Sigma regret to inform you that our forebrothers' secrets of the far east have not survived the move back onto campus. Without them, Asia Prime cannot go on and must be cancelled. Instead, Kappa Sigma presents: International Relations. A celebration of all cultures and the diversity of Duke.

      IOW, "So solly."

    6. Fist of Etiquette   13 years ago

      This isn't a guy who built the railroads here.

    7. Tonio   13 years ago

      See, because culture is the intellectual property of people from the gene pool that invented that culture, so any "appropriation" of that culture by outsiders is ipso facto racism.

      Except, of course, when it's done in a sensitive manner by accredited non-racists. So it's OK for liberal schoolteachers to have Asian Culture Week, but when post-secondary students want to have their own Asian cultural appreciation event it's wrong and racist.

  13. Fist of Etiquette   13 years ago

    Two storm systems are converging on the Northeast, bringing the possibility of record-breaking snowfall.

    Snowzilla versus Desnowyah.

  14. John   13 years ago

    So I stole Tim's point about if it was legal for Obama to kill Al Alwaki why wouldn't it have been legal for Nixon to order the killing of Jane Fonda during her trip to Hanoi and posted said question on facebook.

    I have more than a few liberal friends who love to use FACEBOOK as a platform to advance the cause. Yet, not a single one of them has posted a response. You can hear the crickets chirp.

    1. Alack   13 years ago

      Maybe they just set you to "ignore" after that one? It happened to me once after I made a joke about 1%ers having good taste in booze.

    2. nicole   13 years ago

      Aww, I was hoping for butthurt.

      1. Episiarch   13 years ago

        But...that's not the good kind, nicole.

        1. nicole   13 years ago

          I'd be pretty stupid if I was coming here for the good kind.

        2. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

          You know, I'm still waiting for someone, someday, to decide that "butthurt" is anti-gay slang and yell at people for saying it.

          And this site is mind-blowingly pretentious.

          1. Apatheist ?_??   13 years ago

            Looks like they are a bit butthurt over other people's use of butthurt.

      2. STANthatMan   13 years ago

        this is butthurt (DNSFW)

    3. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

      Don't worry, John. I'm sure they are frantically searching TPM and DailyKos for something to rebut with.

      1. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

        I'm just fine with self-defense. Kill that fucking jihadist already.

        1. MJGreen   13 years ago

          Look out! He's got a webcam!

  15. Fist of Etiquette   13 years ago

    ...the White House says no more information will be made public.

    Suck on that, transparency!

    1. Slammer   13 years ago

      ...the White House says no more information will be made public.

      ..unless it's leaked

    2. Rich   13 years ago

      "The fact is, when it comes to public disclosure, we have been ... publicly discussing these matters at the highest levels of government"

      "Drones are cool!"

      "Hehehe. You said 'drones'!"

  16. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

    The Progressives hate the big corporations for holding so much cash, which they say is hurting the economy. Some even say that the evil corporations are doing it to ultimately hurt a black president. Well surprise, surprise, surprise!

    Apple continues to attract scrutiny from investors about its fast-growing cash stockpile as the company generates strong profits from its computers and mobile devices. While it has recently created a dividend and stock buyback program, some investors believe Apple should deliver more of its cash?which was at $137.1 billion, including short and long-term securities?to shareholders.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....bs=article

    1. A Serious Man   13 years ago

      That's a nice stockpile of money you got there, it would be a shame if something were to happen to it.

      1. MJGreen   13 years ago

        Really, what company needs $100 billion in cash?

      2. Restoras   13 years ago

        A lot of corporate cash is held overseas to avoid onerous US tax obligations.

        1. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

          While that is true it depends on where it is held because you get a tax credit for the taxes paid in that country.

          Japan has a tax rate similar to ours so a Google will bring that home tax free.

          Ireland has a 12% rate - no luck there. Still the NOL benefits most companies so this issue is nearly moot.

        2. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

          Also, corporate planning, budgeting, finance, allocations, etc - are all my areas of expertise.

          Feel free to ask me anything.

          1. fish   13 years ago

            How come you're such a useless tard?

          2. IamNotEvil   13 years ago

            How do I get a 6 figure payout from the slush fund?

    2. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

      But us liberals love companies like Apple and Google and their cash hoard.

      1. Certified Public Asskicker   13 years ago

        Thursday.

        1. T o n y   13 years ago

          Thursday is self-imposed "no intercourse" day. Only the specific type of narcissistic introvert known as the libertarian would be happy about that.

          1. barfman2013   13 years ago

            *barf*

      2. Jordan   13 years ago

        No, you just love plundering them.

    3. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

      Shareholders certainly have a right to bitch if they aren't getting adequate access to Apple's profits, either through dividends or stock price increases, but that's about it.

    4. Agammamon   13 years ago

      Well, the shareholders have a point. *Most* of the didn't buy stock in Apple so they could have a pretty piece of paper to hang on the wall - they did it for the dividends.

      If Apple is holding onto the extra money, then Apple needs to give the shareholders a convincing reason for that plan - after all, its the *shareholders* who own the company, not the board.

      1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

        Someone a week or so ago was saying that total shareholder liability was fair in part because shareholders got all the profits and should share in the total downside risk. I said that wasn't always true (probably never completely true with a publicly traded company). See?

      2. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

        That is absurd. Apple has never been a dividend stock until now. Its yield has been pathetic.

      3. ChrisO   13 years ago

        Dividends are generally discretionary, though it obviously depends on the company by-laws.

        1. Agammamon   13 years ago

          Yeah, I got that - though they should have a sitdown with the shareholders and tell them in no uncertain terms that the reason Apple is holding onto the cash (and not paying it out individends) is because a huge chunk of it would be lost in taxes and never get to the shareholders in the first place.

  17. John   13 years ago

    Contrary to popular belief, the National Security Act does not allow the president to classify information based on the "fuck you that is why" standard. The White House is absolutely in violation of the law for classifying those legal memos. There is no need for them to be classified.

    1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

      You know, I took National Security Law in law school (third year, of course), and I don't think anything that's happened in the last two administrations along these lines has been legal in my casebook.

      1. generic Brand   13 years ago

        Is there any recourse for this blatant disregard for the law then? Is it all resting on Congress growing some balls and holding impeachment trials, i.e. never going to happen?

        1. Sevo   13 years ago

          Other than some member of the executive branch, what, arresting him?
          We're dealing with Obama here. Even if the courts tell him to pony up, he'll simply ignore it, and NBC will tell us the courts are totally out of line!

        2. ChrisO   13 years ago

          That's about it.

        3. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

          There's recourse, as almost all of this stuff is likely illegal, strictly speaking, but everyone just lets it slide. Congress, the courts, us the people, everyone.

    2. Agammamon   13 years ago

      That authority is contained in Title XII of the National Security Act of 1947.

    3. Whahappan?   13 years ago

      Most of what's hidden, classified, redacted, etc. in the name of "National Security," or for that matter withheld from the public by state or local governments, is done so to hide illegal, immoral, unethical or embarrassing acts by government officials.

  18. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

    The FAA has released the most updated list of local jurisdictions authorized to use drones; there are 81, including municipalities, colleges and even an Indian tribe.

    The college part makes plenty of sense to me if they're doing research.

    1. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

      Grand Forks. ND? WTF???

      1. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

        Well they do have a world-class flight school at UND, so maybe that's it.

        1. fish   13 years ago

          Well they do have a world-class flight school at UND, so maybe that's it.

          And programs in the maintenance of non-piloted vehicles. So there's that!

      2. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

        Did you really expect me to make it through the 24/7 wall and actually see what colleges were involved?

      3. NeonCat   13 years ago

        Nukes?

      4. Agammamon   13 years ago

        Its ND - there's about 30 square miles per person there. No need to worry aobut people crashing drones into things.

  19. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

    What is the Libertarian position on public masturbation?

    http://boards.straightdope.com.....p?t=659140

    1. Brett L   13 years ago

      What public property would exist in Libertopia?

    2. Alack   13 years ago

      Trick question: Libertarians want to end all public everything, all the time. There'd be no ban on masturbating in public because public wouldn't exist.

      1. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

        What about a guy jacking off from his lawn chair in his front yard while the school bus unloaded?

        1. fish   13 years ago

          Enough about your "Bucket List".

      2. T o n y   13 years ago

        Sounds like a complete shithole. How is being a prisoner on your own property (since someone owns the property on all four sides of it, presumably) equal to more freedom?

      3. Warty   13 years ago

        Congratulations, Alack. You caught a pair of morons in your sarcasm trap.

        Mantrap! You fell in!

        1. Episiarch   13 years ago

          Can really, really stupid sockpuppets actually be morons? Or are they just really, really stupid sockpuppets?

          1. Warty   13 years ago

            If they have a job and wear a hat and bring home the bacon, you can never know.

            1. Episiarch   13 years ago

              Don't pretend that you actually listen to Devo, Warty.

              1. Warty   13 years ago

                Every man, woman, and mutant on this planet shall know the truth about de-evolution.

                1. Episiarch   13 years ago

                  How dare you quote General Boy! You should quote Booji Boy instead! Do you have the papers the Chinaman gave you?

          2. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

            Don't you have a woman (or gay lover) to abuse?

            Or are you too much of a misanthrope to score some ditched-ridden abuse victim?

            Fly away to the empty bin of your imaginary superheros then.

        2. hamilton   13 years ago

          Them's good eatin'

    3. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

      "What is the Libertarian position on public masturbation?"

      You mean like what you're doing right now on this board? Truth be told, this libertarian finds it highly offensive, but I would never call the cops over it.

    4. Agammamon   13 years ago

      Its perfectly legal, rude and indecent. You have every right to do it in public (as long as you clean up the mess)and I have every right to turn the hose on you like a rutting dog.

      If there's a negative externality, then put a price on it.

      1. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

        Agree.

  20. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

    Women delivering newspapers in Torrance shot in manhunt for ex-cop

    Two women who were shot by Los Angeles police in Torrance early Thursday during a massive manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer were delivering newspapers, sources said.

    The women, shot in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue, were taken to area hospitals, Torrance police Lt. Devin Chase said. They were not identified. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back, according to Jesse Escochea, who captured video of the victims being treated.
    It was not immediately known what newspapers the women were delivering. After the shooting, the blue pickup was riddled with bullet holes and what appeared to be newspapers lay in the street alongside.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.co.....-shot.html

    1. Episiarch   13 years ago

      Shot in the back. You can't make this shit up.

      1. Virginian   13 years ago

        Asian women!

        Look, it's one thing if a burly black guy in the same color and make of pickup truck gets out and the cop gets jumpy. It's not a good thing, but it's semi-defensible in this specific situation. But if two little Asian women get out why the fuck would you be shooting?

        1. tarran   13 years ago

          The women rolled up in a truck with its headlights off (I expect so that their nighvision wouldn't be ruined as they peered at houses for street numbers). The rolled up to the house where one of the people being threatened lived. They were shot by police guarding the house.

          I think the cops were convinced by the fact pattern that they had their man and were ambushing him.

        2. Proprietist   13 years ago

          Not that the LA cops deserve a smidgeon of credit for gangland style shootouts with innocent Asian women driving a car with a different license plate from their fugitive, but it did look from the picture like the back window was not exactly transparent.

          1. Vapourwear   13 years ago

            To you and terran:

            So. The. Fuck. What.

            Neither of those situations warrants that kind of force.

            If you don't know what is going on, you keep your fucking finger off the trigger.

            N

            1. Proprietist   13 years ago

              Trust me, I agree and am outraged and think these cops should be tried for attempted murder and the city of LA owes the women a good $30M payout.

              1. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

                Qualified Immunity. They were only doing their heroic Public Hero duty when they wildly opened fire on a random pair of citizens on the suspicion that a suspect might be in the vehicle.

      2. playa manhattan   13 years ago

        The initial APB said that the truck had non-removable bike/luggage rack on the roof. The truck they shot had no such thing...
        Whoops!

        1. Proprietist   13 years ago

          Damn, this just gets worse and worse. Now imagine if one of the women had a gun and tried to protect themselves from nearly being murdered by these thugs? They'd be off to the gas chamber if they weren't gunned down first.

    2. R C Dean   13 years ago

      I love it: Shooting blind into a truck. Even if the suspect had been in the truck, I didn't think cops were supposed to shoot on sight.

      Did somebody already light the dunphy signal?

      1. tarran   13 years ago

        Why? Do you honestly give a shit what that mendacious, honorless and depraved piece of shit has to say?

        1. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

          ^^THIS^^

          Why anyone engages with him beyond suggesting he kill himself is a mystery to me.

      2. A Serious Man   13 years ago

        They want this guy dead. He's a cop killer and they don't want him talking.

      3. Agammamon   13 years ago

        They're taking a page from the presidents use of force memo.

        If the suspect has committed a crime in the past then you are legally justified to open fire on the mutherfucker any time you see him.

    3. Agammamon   13 years ago

      It was necessary to ensure public safety.

    4. Warty   13 years ago

      Who do we root for in this, the deranged radical leftist mass murderer, or the LAPD? It's a tough call.

      1. Episiarch   13 years ago

        Is there any way everyone can lose?

        Oh, I know how: the two innocent LAPD shooting victims sue them and all the taxpayers lose!

    5. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

      Only our brave, badged public heroes are responsible enough to carry semiautomatic weapons of war!

  21. John   13 years ago

    As I noted yesterday, Floyd Corkins, the guy who planned to kill a bunch of people at the Family Research Council offices in Washington, DC and then rub Chick-fil-A sandwiches in their faces as they died, pleaded guilty yesterday. And he admitted that he picked the FRC and several other targets based on a "Hate Map" at the Southern Poverty Law Center website:

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/02.....z2KFhQigXL

    1. Eduard van Haalen   13 years ago

      Wow, that will totally be covered by the media - not.

    2. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

      Eliminationist. Rhetoric.

    3. grrizzly   13 years ago

      And this is how gay progressives reacted to the news:
      http://www.towleroad.com/2013/.....uilty.html

      Funny, he shoots a guard in what is probably the least lethal place and is charged with terrorism. The group's headquarters he attacked advocates the death of millions, and they are still considered the innocent victims.

      I feel so sorry for Floyd Corkins. I hope he gets a lenient sentence. The hateful tactics of the Family Research Council could drive anyone to lose control. May he find peace and get help. He has my sympathy.

      This was a set up by the anti-gay Christians to make LGBT people look bad. Think about it, he had his bag full of Chick fli-A sandwiches and he went to shoot some anti-gay people? How many gay people pack a picnic bag with anti-gay Christian hate groups things to go and shoot anti-gay people? This kind of propaganda is what the millions of dollars the Catholics, Mormons and Evangelical Christians are paying for, more hate towards LGBT people to stop gay marriage and stop LGBT people.

      Shot the wrong individual I say,should have waited for Perkins...

      Posted by: DC Arnold | Feb 7, 2013 8:18:11 AM

      1. Red Rocks Rockin   13 years ago

        How many gay people pack a picnic bag with anti-gay Christian hate groups things to go and shoot anti-gay people?

        At least one, apparently.

  22. Eduard van Haalen   13 years ago

    US Conference of Catholic Bishops denounces new HHS "compromise" -

    "[quoting Cardinal Dolan] It appears to offer second-class status to our first-class institutions in Catholic health care, Catholic education and Catholic charities. HHS offers what it calls an 'accommodation' rather than accepting the fact that these ministries are integral to our church and worthy of the same exemption as our Catholic churches....

    "In obedience to our Judeo-Christian heritage, we have consistently taught our people to live their lives during the week to reflect the same beliefs that they proclaim on the Sabbath," Cardinal Dolan said. "We cannot now abandon them to be forced to violate their morally well-informed consciences."

    http://www.usccb.org/news/2013/13-037.cfm

    1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

      The Bishop!

      1. Eduard van Haalen   13 years ago

        I posted this in response to comments a few days ago from some H&R folks that the USCCB and religious people in general were so dumb they'd accept this "compromise" at face value.

        1. Sevo   13 years ago

          Obama is not going to be 'held hostage' by...

      2. A Serious Man   13 years ago

        Hey Abbot!

      3. Episiarch   13 years ago

        "We was too late. The Reverend Grundy bit the ceiling."

        1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

          Okay, Devious, don't move!

          1. Episiarch   13 years ago

            'STARRING THE REVEREND E. P. NESBITT'
            'AND INTRODUCING F. B. GRIMSBY URQHART-WRIGHT AS THE VOICE OF GOD'
            'SPECIAL EFFECTS BY THE MODERATOR OF THE CHURCH OF SCOTLAND'

            1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

              I don't know why, but I love that sketch.

              By the way, I've always pictured you as Devious (the Michael Palin character in the sketch).

              1. Episiarch   13 years ago

                Could be worse. How's the nude lady?

                1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

                  Oh, she's fine.

  23. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

    Not Quite Getting the Concept

    "If men wish to deal with one another, they may do so only by means of reason: by discussion, persuasion and voluntary, uncoerced agreement."--Ayn Rand, "The Virtue of Selfishness," December 1963
    "Idaho Politician Proposes Making 'Atlas Shrugged' Required Reading"--headline, San Francisco Chronicle website, Feb. 6, 2013

    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....TopOpinion

    1. A Serious Man   13 years ago

      Well to be fair he said he wasn't being serious when he proposed it, he just wanted to make a point about making graduation requirements.

  24. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

    Can you be convicted of making a false statement if the statement true, but you thought you were lying?

    1. Agammamon   13 years ago

      Well, you can be convicted of lying if you thought the statement was true but it wasn't - mens rea be damned.

      Obviously the activist court is legislating from the bench.

    2. Boisfeuras   13 years ago

      You can, however, be convicted of crimes that are physically impossible.

  25. Brett L   13 years ago

    Lea Thompson looks good for 51, but her 18 yo daughter looks even better.

    1. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

      True. I forgot which movie Lea got spectacularly naked in but I have it on videotape somewhere.

      1. ChrisO   13 years ago

        All The Right Moves.

        1. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

          Thanks. You know I am a classic liberal Ayn Rand atheist.

          People here hate me.

          1. Sevo   13 years ago

            Dipshit,
            They hate you because you're a lying, stupid lefty.

            1. fish   13 years ago

              Sevo...just shhhhh! Shreeek is trying to chat up ChrisO.

  26. Thane of Whiterun   13 years ago

    "Though the company has no immediate plans for any actual group genital masturbation, Shuker-Haines pointed out that, should a member of a company begin to masturbate during a meeting, they would not stop that member from doing so ? as long as the activity is useful to the exercise and no other member is traumatized by the action."

    1. nicole   13 years ago

      That's not even the funniest part of the story. Or the saddest.

      1. Episiarch   13 years ago

        That's...that's a joke story, right?

        Because if it's not NutraSweet is going to want to join.

    2. neoteny   13 years ago

      the goal of these exercises is to fill a void

      That's done differently, not by masturbating.

      1. Agammamon   13 years ago

        Depends on how yo do it.

    3. Palin's Buttplug   13 years ago

      That is why I am a classic liberal - our exceptance of the weird future people. Who knows, we may even evolve more in the future.

      1. Cytotoxic   13 years ago

        No you're not you lying fuckbucket.

    4. Proprietist   13 years ago

      I wonder if they asked the janitorial staff if they were traumatized cleaning up the mess they made?

  27. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

    Squeezed by historic funding shortfalls, school districts across [California] in recent years have been illegally dipping into cafeteria funds meant to provide meals to poor students to pay other school expenses, according to a report released Wednesday.

    The strongly worded report by the California Senate Office of Oversight and Outcomes identified the Los Angeles Unified School District as the biggest offender. LAUSD was among eight school districts across the state ordered to repay a total of $170 million to student meal programs.

    "Perhaps more troubling, department officials candidly acknowledge they have no idea how big the problem may be and fear they may have uncovered only a hint of the ongoing abuse," the report states.
    About $158 million of the $170 million debt belongs to LAUSD, which allegedly shifted money from the cafeteria fund to pay for expenses such as lawn sprinklers and the salaries of employees at the district's television station.

    http://www.dailynews.com/news/.....eria-funds

  28. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

    Yes, Virginia, there is a Dildo, Newfoundland!

    http://mentalfloss.com/article.....mes-canada

    1. db   13 years ago

      I actually have been there.

  29. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

    "President Barack Obama's speeches have a familiar ring these days--no matter if it's guns, immigration or the budget," Politico reports:

    Tout what he's already done. Say the public's in his corner. Demand Congress do something. Lament Washington dysfunction. Lay out his own plan. Avoid details. Urge voters to keep up the pressure. Warn it won't be easy. Bask in the applause.
    It's the fill-in-the-blank approach to selling a presidential agenda: same template, just adjusted for the topic.

    In the fifth year of Obama's presidency, these guys are just noticing this? And where's Gene Rayburn when you need him? "Barack Obama is the first blank president."

    http://www.politico.com/story/.....87243.html

    1. Sevo   13 years ago

      "Lament Washington dysfunction."

      Pretty sure this should be
      "Lament obstructionist Rethuglicans"

  30. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

    Minneapolis police officer arrested; suspected of sexually assaulting girls

    A Minneapolis police officer has been arrested on suspicion of sexually assaulting several girls in off-duty incidents, according to the Anoka County Sheriff's office.

    Investigators from the Brooklyn Park Police Department were alerted that Bradley Schnickel, an Anoka County resident, allegedly used social media to contact a female in Brooklyn Park and sent inappropriate messages to her. The investigation widened and multiple juvenile female victims were identified, authorities said. Cmdr. Paul Sommer of the Anoka County Sheriff's Office wouldn't say an exact number.

    The girls were between 12 and 14 years old, authorities said. Schnickel was arrested on suspicion of first-degree criminal sexual conduct. He has not been charged.

    Schnickel, who was arrested Wednesday, has worked for the Minneapolis police department since 2008. He has been placed on paid administrative leave, and Chief Janee Harteau has ordered an internal affairs investigation, the police department said.

    Sommer said the Anoka County sheriff's office investigation is "ongoing and fluid."

    http://www.startribune.com/loc.....38461.html

    1. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

      Bradley Schnickel

      This man should be trusted with semiautomatic weapons of war. You should not. Why? Fuck you, that's why.

    2. Agammamon   13 years ago

      You know, I just don't get this. I mean , I can understand (not condone mind you) this happening in a close relationship (say with a teacher) but I just don't understand dudes that whip their dicks out for random 13 year olds.

      What sort of insanity do we men have when so many do this shit, from 21 year old meth-head truckers to 50 year old city councilors.

  31. Archduke Pantsfan   13 years ago

    I'd have the same reaction if I had to go to Saskatoon.

  32. Cytotoxic   13 years ago

    Re: the picture. Biggest. Boner. Ever.

    1. db   13 years ago

      I think you just jumped the shark.

      1. Cytotoxic   13 years ago

        Your mom jumped the shark.

  33. Archduke Pantsfan   13 years ago

    THE Queensland police union is calling for tougher laws to send risk-taking pregnant women into safe houses in an effort to monitor their behaviour.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/lifesty.....z2KFx2sC8q

    1. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

      They're the mothers of the race. If they can't take responsibility for their duty to spawn more taxpaying Aussies, then the state must step in and pick up the slack.

      SOMETHING MUST BE DONE.

  34. Archduke Pantsfan   13 years ago

    Can Sugarfree and Raylan be kin?

  35. Archduke Pantsfan   13 years ago

    This ain't right: A Blonde Anne of Green Gables

  36. benji   13 years ago

    Probably posted: http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

    Want more proof that the boundaries of debate in American politics are absurdly narrow and unequal to our challenges? Then ask yourself why an overdue, common-sense increase in the minimum wage is not on the agenda of either the president or the "new and improved" Republican party.
    ...
    It's no surprise that Nader, 78 years old and still fighting the good fight, worked with a couple of dozen liberal Democrats in Congress last year on a bill to lift the minimum to $10. That would still be below 1968's level, but it would represent a $5,000-plus raise for close to 30 million workers at or near the minimum today (it would also add $25 billion to gross domestic product, according to the Economic Policy Institute). That bill went nowhere without White House leadership; even a lunch-bucket Democrat like Tom Harkin refused to hold hearings on the idea.

    But the fascinating thing is that Ron Unz, the eclectic libertarian activist who publishes the American Conservative magazine, is seeing Nader's $10 and raising him to $12. In a smart paper on the topic for the New America Foundation, Unz argues that it's time to admit that for average workers, "decades of economic policy have largely failed."

    1. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

      That would still be below 1968's level, but it would represent a $5,000-plus raise for close to 30 million workers at or near the minimum today

      Assuming that all of those 30 million workers keep their jobs (hint: they won't).

      1. MJGreen   13 years ago

        How could you foresee that!?

        1. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

          Because...it's happened before?

          1. Agammamon   13 years ago

            This time is DIFFERENT!

    2. Brandon   13 years ago

      Wow. According to the Post, the problem with this country is that the government just isn't doing enough interfering in the market.

    3. Sevo   13 years ago

      "(it would also add $25 billion to gross domestic product, according to the Economic Policy Institute)."

      FUNNY!
      Yep, that money would just magically appear once the gov't mandated it!

    4. Agammamon   13 years ago

      "Ron Unz, the eclectic libertarian activist. . . is seeing Nader's $10 and raising him to $12"

      It just means that Ron Unz either isn't a libertarian, or just doesn't understand economics (or both).

      If he was a libertarian and/or understood economics he would be pushing for a raise in the minimum rate. That way these people could see a larger paycheck without the concommittant problems of a minimum wage.

      1. Agammamon   13 years ago

        As a matter of fact, no-one who lobbies for a "living wage" should be taken seriously unless they're also pushing for a minimum rate at least equal to whatever they say the :livign wage" should be.

  37. Archduke Pantsfan   13 years ago

    WOW: McLaren 50 Year Tribute video

  38. Archduke Pantsfan   13 years ago

    A good start? Canadian Senator sent to jail

    1. db   13 years ago

      That's gotta be a crippling blow to the Canadian government. Can they even reach a quorum with one member oot?

  39. Archduke Pantsfan   13 years ago

    Don't worry Tim Thomas, you'll never have to snub Obama at a White House victory party anymore.

    1. db   13 years ago

      Good; now I can hate the Bruins unreservedly. Not too happy about feeling sympathy for any Islander, however.

  40. Jerryskids   13 years ago

    So do the 81 jurisdictions authorized to use drones follow the same rules the president follows - i.e. can the Dean of UND just decide the Dean of USD needs killing and dronestrike his ass?

  41. waaminn   13 years ago

    Lerts hit it up man, Wow.

    http://www.ImaAnon.tk

  42. John   13 years ago

    The other fun question to ask is

    If it was illegal for Nixon to bomb Cambodia, why isn't it also illegal for Obama to bomb Pakistan.

    That will get the crickets chirping real quick.

  43. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

    I tend to point out the drowning shit and how 176 Pakistani kids have been killed and how a 16-year-old American was killed by Obama (as was his father) without due process. I basically go all Code Pink on their asses. Shuts them up fast.

  44. Enough About Palin   13 years ago

    drowning = droning

  45. Tonio   13 years ago

    We're drowning in drones.

  46. fish   13 years ago

    I'm guessing that the crickets result from the fact that maybe 1 in a 1000 Facebook users has a clue about Cambodia!

  47. VG Zaytsev   13 years ago

    Or Libya, or Yemen, or ...

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