Taxes

Despite Deal, Most Americans Get Hit by Tax Hike

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Slap forehead

As pointed out on Reason 24/7, the fiscal cliff deal may have spared most Americans from an income tax hike, but the majority of us are taking a big hit in terms of increased Social Security payroll taxes. That's because temporary relief from some of the burden of that tax expired at the end of 2012, and the feds are quietly anticipating increased revenue as the bulk of American workers glance at their pay stubs and notice an extra bite missing. That can be a big deal because, as the Tax Policy Center tells us, as of 2007, two-thirds of taxpayers paid more in payroll taxes than in income taxes.

The same organization told the Chicago Tribune that the vast majority of Americans are about to get hit pretty hard by the largely under-the-radar tax hike.

While the tax package that Congress passed will protect 99 percent of Americans from an income tax increase, most of them will still end up paying more federal taxes in 2013.

That's because the legislation did nothing to prevent a temporary reduction in the Social Security payroll tax from expiring. In 2012, that 2-percentage-point cut in the payroll tax was worth about $1,000 to a worker making $50,000 a year.

The Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan Washington research group, estimates that 77 percent of American households will face higher federal taxes in 2013 under the agreement negotiated between President Barack Obama and Senate Republicans. High-income families will feel the biggest tax increases, but many middle- and low-income families will pay higher taxes too.

Households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will face an average tax increase of $579 in 2013, according to the Tax Policy Center's analysis. Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will face an average tax increase of $822.

If it makes you feel any better, soaring payroll taxes are nothing new. In fact, they've been taking a growing chunk of Americans' paychecks ever since entitlement programs were dreamed up. Says the ever-helpful Tax Policy Center, "Congress has raised the Social Security tax rate 21 times and the Medicare tax nine times since the inception of each program."

Soaring payroll taxes

Oh, but those entitlement programs are worth every penny, right?

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  1. Bitch should have had a V-8 instead of tax hikes.

  2. Look JD, we all know that if we cut even one dollar of entitlement spending that the streets will be flooded with destitute grandmothers whoring themselves out to be able to buy cat food at the 99? store.

    1. I’m so tired of all of this. Can we just start over? I’ll start redlining the Constitution.

      1. It would be so much easier to just start a new one.

          1. I already did, but you can’t cheat off it.

            1. Madison gave me his notes to copy off of, so I’m good.

              1. HA! Yours is going to suck if you use those notes. I’ve already seen where that one goes.

                1. I have some enhancements to add. And some clarifications.

          2. Article I: You can haz free shit.

            Article II: POTUS can give you free shit

            Article III: SCOTUS can only agree with above

            1. Article I: Maybe.
              Article II: Not unless I agree.
              Article III: No, fuck that.

          3. Draft your own, then.

            Cool!

            “Congress shall make no law.”

            Done.

          4. “Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of production and trade . . .”

          5. Preamble: The Constitution is a living breathing document, not a suicide pact.

            I. General Welfare
            II. COMMERZE!
            III.Militia shall be the whole of the Troops and Police who can only use guns by Regulation.
            IV.The Rights of the Women to Free Birth Control and Abortion Shall Not Be Infringed.

            Amendments:

            1. No shouting fire in crowded theaters.
            2. It’s called HOLIDAY you Christ-Fags
            3.Freedom From Want.
            4. Freedom From Fear.

            1. You forgot the right to not be offended.

              1. That’s what penumbras and emanations are for.

    2. Not to mention that the destitute grandmothers will probably fall and break a hip while climbing over the bodies of dying children in the streets.

      1. Their tax rates had fallen, but they apparently could get back up.

  3. Two percent! I want my two percent!

    1. $2, cash!

  4. OT: Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

    Where’s Terry Schiavo’s ex- when we need him to make a decision?

    1. Sean Penn is fresh out of friends.

    2. I hope it’s painful.

      1. Comas rarely are.

        1. Don’t steal my hope! It’s too early in the year.

          1. I wish I could believe in Hell.

            1. You could try driving in Boston.

              1. With Chavez on the bumper?

                1. Wearing a Yankees hat.

            2. Ever been to Maryland?

              1. Ever been to Maryland?

                I live there, don’t rub it in.

          2. It could be like Tony Soprano’s coma and Hugo is stuck as some mid level bureaucrat.

    3. Hugo Chavez is in an induced coma being kept alive by life support following complications during cancer surgery, it was claimed today.
      Sources at the hospital in Cuba where he is being treated

      B-b-but, Cuba has socialized medicine! How can this be? /derp

      Oh well, at least it was “free”, right?

  5. Funny how the Gover Norquists of the world, while willing to fight to the death to hold the line on the income tax rates, don’t consider payroll tax hikes to count as tax increases.

    1. I don’t exactly see them sucking each others dicks in celebration. Do you?

      1. No, but the hypocrisy of calling for hikes to the payroll tax on one hand, while saying any increase to income taxes would destroy the economy on the other hand is part of why the Republicans came across as phony to so many Americans in the last election.

        1. is part of why the Republicans came across as phony to so many Americans in the last election.

          Too bad they don’t come across as phony to more Americans. After all Team Red sucks ballz just as bad as Team Blue does.

        2. To be fair, if:

          1. You think we need to tax enough to pay for what spending we do
          2. You accept the basic concept of the Laffer curve

          then it follows that the payroll tax is probably one of the better ones to raise, in order to get more “revenue”. Taxing the rich isnt going to help.

      2. Actually, he has come out and said that this is not really a tax increase. Now that he has lost the vote, he needs to look like he won, so now the tax increases were going to happen anyway so the vote was for a tax cut.

        All I know is that given the same situation in 2013 as in 2012, I will pay more taxes in 2013. That’s a tax increase. PERIOD.

        1. Yes it is. But that still doesn’t mean Team Red backers are happy the Reps and Senators rolled over so easily on this tax and spend boondoggle. As a matter of fact, I would imagine people are being prepped to primary every one of the bastards that voted for this piece of shit. Hell, I vowed to primary Devin Nunes if he voted Yea, but he actually did well last night.

          1. If nothing is done to address spending this year, and we dive into another full-blown recession, then perhaps people will do something next election.

          2. You should primary him anyway. Then let the commentariat run your campaign.

            1. I really am thinking about it. Last night, a couple of guys from CA said they’d contribute. I’m gonna start exploring it and the state house at the same time.

              1. I love you more than anything honey, but please reconsider. You should pursue a more noble profession, like loan sharking or pimping.

          3. Unfortunately, my district has a douche D in the House. I’ve never voted for him, and he has no incentive to do anything I want.

            My Senator, OTOH, (well one of them anyways), voted NAY.

            Rand Paul: A warm fuzzy blanket of liberty.

            He’s not ALWAYS right, but he represents far more of my ideas than anyone else could ever hope to, especially re: 4A issues.

    2. Yeah, it’s kind of like how the Chony Krugnuts of the world, while willing to fight to death to raise income taxes on the evil rich, have no problem with lowering everyones’ payroll taxes. Which by the way, the last time that I checked, are supposed to fund their beloved big welfare programs.

    3. I agree. Norquist is not nearly enough of a hard ass.

      1. Or not at all.

    4. It’s also funny because employees do not have a payroll. They have an income. The payroll tax taxes income. Therefore to the employee, it’s an income tax. It’s only a payroll tax to the employer. Calling it a payroll tax is just a lie.

  6. Were Americans just asleep at the wheel as their rates more than quadrupled in 20 years between 1947 and 1967?

    1. Yeah, but that’s when all this good shit happened, like the internet and putting people in space!

      Don’t you know that prosperity only happens when there’s high tax rates? Paul Krugman and the liberals from ThinkProgress told me so!

    2. It’s quietly been taken from their paychecks, just another example of how no actions of Milton Friedman’s can ever make up for his most evil idea ever: withholding. And this hike is going to do the same.

      1. At least Uncle Miltie didn’t go to his grave denying that that was a big mistake.

        1. I don’t give a fuck about any apologies, that was handing the government one of the greatest weapons it has ever had for stealing and he willingly gave it to them. It’s even worse than direct force because people fight back against direct force.

          Even if, as Randian says below, it was inevitable, we don’t know when inevitable would have occurred and it certainly would have slowed the growth of the government to not have withholding for longer.

          1. As fuck-ups go, it was a doozy.

          2. It would have happened regardless.

      2. You would bring that up, if only to remind us that we can never have any nice things at all.

        1. I exist only to remind you of that, nicole. Well, that and reminding Hugh that he’s a huge jerk.

          1. You’re very good at what you do.

            1. Thank you, I take pride in my work.

          2. Epi did you get the christmas gift I sent you? You don’t know how hard it was to find Justin Bieber bedsheets in queen size.

            1. Idiot. I saw his list and he specifically asked for a Bieber body pillow.

              1. An ‘anatomically correct’ body pillow.

            2. I did, Hugh, thanks. Your mom loves them too.

      3. Withholding is basically like a nuclear weapon – that genie was coming out of the bottle one way or the other.

        1. Especially since people are such weapons-grade stupid that they all think they are getting something when they get their refund, instead of getting something back. I mean, we even still call it a refund, but they don’t get that they’re getting dicked on the interest on their forced loan to the government.

          1. I’ve talked to lots of people like that. They even have to do tax forms to figure out how much the government is going to “give” them, and they still don’t get it. How much more blazingly obvious does it have to be?

  7. I can’t wait, in another ten years or so, when the Baby Boomers are dragged from their nursing home beds, led out into the streets, and hanged from the nearest lamppost or tree branch. And despite their elderly dementia, even as the noose tightens around their neck, they will sneer at us. They will cling to their unwarranted sense of self-importance and righteousness until the very end.

    This will be the ignoble end of the most arrogant and self-involved generation to have sullied the American landscape with their footsteps.

    1. Well, as long as their are politicians among them, can I join in the lamp post decorations? Even though I might be considered one of them?

      1. by one of them, I mean boomers, not pols.

      2. Just start mumbling Smells Like Teen Spirit when they come for you, then they’ll confuse you for one of the older members of Gen X and you’ll be saved

    2. I really don’t believe in sweeping generational generalizations.

      1. Typical [insert generational title here]

    3. Let’s not collectively guilt people here. There are people within the boomer generation that are a perfect example of what you describe but it sure as hell isn’t all of them.

      1. Agreed. We need a Star Chamber to review each case.

      2. You would think someone who is half-black would know better.

        1. You would think someone who is half-black would know better.

          It’s more like 1/4, but Heroic Quadroon doesn’t have as much as a ring to it.

          Secondly, of course not all of that generation deserve hangin’, but I fear the angry mobs that will roam the wasteland that will be the America of the future won’t care to be too discerning.

          1. It’s more like 1/4, but Heroic Quadroon doesn’t have as much as a ring to it.

            Yes it does! CHANGE YOUR HANDLE RIGHT NOW. You should take any excuse to use the word ‘quadroon’

            1. I’m torn. On the one hand, I agree with Randian. On the other, that severely decreases the chances anyone will get the joke of the handle. On the third hand, of course, almost no one gets the joke as it is and just assumes HM is racist.

              1. Who was it who tried to race-bait HM the other day? That was hilarious.

                1. I don’t know, it seems to happen pretty regularly though.

                  1. I didn’t see that. Someone get me that link! Nothing I love more than humorless jackassery in regards to race.

              2. “on the third gripping hand”

                Know your tropes.

            2. Two references to Archer in one day?

              You’re all right, Randian… you’re all right.

              Just remember to be careful when converting the age of hot young women from metric to English units.

              1. Malory: Well, Conway’s gone. And I’ll have nothing to remember him by.

                Cheryl: Except his little mocha love child!

            3. I normally don’t succumb to peer pressure so easily.

              1. You just want us to call you HQ now.

              2. Haha. My meta plan to get this screen name has finally come to fruition.

                Randian, nicole thank you both for being unwitting pawns in my elaborate scheme.

                MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

                1. What hath God wrought?

                  1. I don’t think God had anything to do with that.

                2. HQ, you just let me know if/when you want your handle back. I’ll hold it in safe keeping for you so as to keep it away from some of the less savory characters on here that might misuse or abuse it.

      3. Yeah, come to think of it, what about folks in their 30s, of sound mind and body, who have been on welfare for years, refuse to even look for a job, and continue having more kids so that they can get even more free shit, when they already have subsidized housing, free food, and pretty much free everything, and no requirement and no incentive to work again, ever.

        The Tonys of the world will tell you that these people do not exist, and like on most things, they would be wrong.

        1. Yeah, come to think of it, what about folks in their 30s, of sound mind and body, who have been on welfare for years, refuse to even look for a job, and continue having more kids so that they can get even more free shit, when they already have subsidized housing, free food, and pretty much free everything, and no requirement and no incentive to work again, ever.

          We’ve mentioned the Obamaphone generation before. Who do you think will make up the angry mobs of lumpenproletariat that will dispense karmic justice upon the Boomers?

          1. They had better hope that all of the boomers guns have been confiscated by then. I know a few boomers that might just surprise them.

            1. The Boomers with guns aren’t the one’s I’m thinking of, unless they were radical Yippies or something.

              1. Yes! Your name is now certified 100% More Awesome.

                1. Yes! Your name is now certified 100% More Awesome.

                  I agree.

                  1. I can’t really believe that you guys coerced HM into changing his name. Racists!

  8. While the tax package that Congress passed will protect 99 percent of Americans from an income tax increase, most of them will still end up paying more federal taxes in 2013

    MORE RETHUGLICAN LIES!!

    No, really. Funny how these elements recieved little/no criticism in the media every time Obama said, “keep taxes from rising for 99% of Americans”…

    1. I have so much money. The government takes so much. Now they’re taking more.

      How we all just sit around taking this crap is beyond me.

        1. Drones, bruh.

          This.

          Were it not for the chance of jail or death, I’d say fuck ’em. But they have. and use, force because they know that people wouldn’t stand for their bullshit if they didn’t.

      1. We can’t vote them out as long as a majority are either totally dependent upon government assistance, or just ignorant. And the other side is not up for logical and reasonable debate.

        So, what’s the plan?

        Only thing I can think of, is let them tax and spend all they like, no opposition at all, until they run out of money.

        That, or states start to rebel.

      2. The sad fact is too many of us are busy trying to survive to be able to do something.

        1. Set your allowances for deductions to 11.

  9. Listening to NPR and they framed it in a totally different light. It wasn’t so much that more was being taken out of your paycheck. No, you’re just getting less.

    Subtle difference.
    In the former the compensation is yours, and the taxes are what is taken away.
    In the latter the compensation belongs to the government, and the paycheck is what you are allowed to keep.

    “Be thankful I don’t take it all…”

    1. From each according to his ability, to each according to his political pull.

      1. That is a nice succinct description. Would make a good bumper sticker to piss off all the right sorts of people.

    2. Pray I don’t alter the deal further.

  10. No, fuck you, cut spending.

    Too late? It’s never too late. Till then….fight the power…

    1. It’s not too late, because they’re still spending more than ever before. Until they stop. . . .

      1. Exactly. My tax-avoidance efforts have just become – let’s just say “more intensive” for now.

        Fuck Washington DC in the ass. And the fucking morons that elected them. I don’t give a shit what Epi thinks about “collectivist thought” – real people voted for these assholes, and it wasn’t me. Fuck them in the ass.

        1. No, you go right ahead and fault people for a collective action. They all did in fact do the thing you say they did, so they are in fact all guilty of it. There’s nothing wrong with hating on people for their actual actions.

          1. Maybe libertarian advocates should take a totally different approach and simply start advocating that citizens all “steal” back their taxes from the federal government. You know, take federal highway signs, repossess federal cars, that sort of thing.

            1. If you steal an “Official US Government Property” sign, does that count for more points?

              1. It’s all about dollar value and getting back your taxes, but sure, that’s worth some style points.

              2. If you steal an “Official US Government Property” sign, does that count for more points?

                Sure. But it also counts for more jail time too.

            2. Would it not be easier to steal PS3s and canned hams from the homes of able bodied welfare recipients? Does the non aggression principle apply to the beneficiaries of violence? Where would you draw the line? Would those who received heavily subsidized student loans count? Frankly, my malice is much higher for the Lena Dunhams of this world than those born to the circumstances of generational poverty caused by Great Society programs.

              1. I dunno. I say steal a jet.

                1. I don’t want a jet, I want a boat. Steal an aircraft carrier. Yeah. Fuck yeah!

              2. I thought this same thing when I saw an article detailing several families (none in “poverty”) who were getting government assistance to help them with their home payments for 24 months.

                I wanted addresses and to walk in and just grab a TV or something and say “Yeah, I paid for this.”

        2. Mrs. Dean is about to get the Acme Tax-Avoidance Toolkit, namely, a small business of her very own.

          Speaking of which, the local gun store got their freedom delivery today. I lightened their inventory by one (1) Sig P938.

          1. I started one of those Tax-Avoidance toolkits. Now all I need is an accountant who hates the IRS.

          2. Funny how the self-employment tax wipes out a lot of the benefits.

  11. ” It wasn’t so much that more was being taken out of your paycheck. No, you’re just getting less.”

    Well, they just neglected to explain the cause of getting less. What has been irritating me much more on NPR is their referring the tax rate increases as “revenue”.

    1. It’d be meta ironic kind of if they meant it in the same sense the old timey moonshiners called them “Revenuers”.

      But it’s not, so it’s not.

  12. The Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan Washington research group…

    They are about as nonpartisan as the Chicago Tribune.

  13. OT and PS – God DAMN these are some fine corn muffins we’re having on the last day of vacation. Lunch was chicken soup and corn muffins – and the corn muffins are every bit of “outstanding”. Mmmmmmuffins!

  14. It’s sad-funny because payroll taxes are technically the most regressive income taxes, being a flat rate up until the six figure cutoff, after which it gets more and more regressive. While the total payoff may not be regressive, the internal assumption in that argument is that there will be any SS or Medicare in 40 years or so to pay them back with. As there probably won’t be, it will end up being a long-term tax that disproportionately cuts into the poor’s limited and non-discretionary income while crushing any chance they have to save anything for retirement/emergencies/etc.

  15. A 2% tax hike on all workers will not go unnoticed.

    1. I have an idea. Let’s flip out. I mean, Americans as a group. It serves none of our interests to simply submit on this issue.

      1. But ProLib, after a while you get used to the feel of a boot on your face. You even start to crave it, and fear its absence.

        1. They’ll grind it in harder if we actually rise in a taxpayer revolt, I’m sure.

          So it’s win-win!

      2. They don’t care. Why? Because we don’t have the votes anymore. Too many takers, who will not be affected at all by this, and who are cheering on the wonderful fact that others have to pay more taxes, while they continue to pay nothing.

        1. I’m not sure that’s quite true, but it’s close enough to make life very scary for the rest of the century.

  16. Alright, so am I supposed to be happy or sad about this deal? I need my feelings summarized for me in a few sentences, please. Because, I mean, the KosKids and Krugman are butthurt and the Republicans are basically “meh”, so what the hell is going on?

    1. You’re getting fucked in the ass. And not in the good way.

      Does that help? I guess it’s not really feelings-y.

      1. You’re getting fucked in the ass. And not in the good way.

        There’s a good way?

        1. You just want to make me say that of course there’s a good way.

          Of course there’s a good way.

          1. 1.) Pain
            2.) Your thing touches the ca-ca hole, full of ca-ca with ca-ca germs.

            Even if you love all of God’s creatures, like I do, I don’t see the good in tushy sex.

            1. I’m signing onto this opinion in its entirety.

              1. Well, it’s your thing, or not, so obviously (2) is your call. And obviously a lot of other people with things don’t care.

                1. And obviously a lot of other people with things don’t care.

                  You know, nicole, your erotic Harry Potter/Indiana Jones slash fiction doesn’t accurately portray masculine same-sex sexuality.

                  1. Good lord, after reading that, I hope not!

          2. Of course there’s a good way.

            Does it involve hamsters or gerbils?

            1. All I can tell you is that it doesn’t involve Warty and Epi tag teaming you.

            2. I had an EMS partner that claimed to have run a call that involved that once. I don’t know how it ended. frankly, i don’t want to know. but i’m fairly certain he was BSing me. at least, i hope so.

              1. I think gerbiling is one of those cases where someone made an outlandish joke that got around and then people started trying it.

                Wouldn’t the gerbil just immediately suffocate, even if you didn’t break its neck trying to shove it in your ass? What’s the point? Is the scrabbling of its tiny paws for maybe a minute impart some rare pleasure that could make it worth the expensive of going and buying a gerbil and trouble of shitting out a dead one afterwards?

                1. well, this story was basically that, but instead of duct-taped hamster wiggling around in there, it started chewing his rectum.

                  1. It wasn’t chewing, nothing so vulgar. They were just love nibbles.

                    1. (sigh) Can’t we have ONE thread without going anal?

                  2. Oh shit, man. That hurts worse than you could ever imagine. I mean, I’ve heard that that hurts worse than you could ever imagine.

                    Look over there, a pony!

      2. *shrug* Math is going to be the only thing that solves the entitlement programs, so NBD there, and I’ve already planned not to rely on them, so I’m thankful that the “Bush Tax Cuts” are now the Obama Permanent Tax Rates.

        1. My point is more: they couldn’t manage to stomach a very small amount of not-actually-cuts, let alone an actual spending freeze or real cuts to spending. I don’t see how, without that, we aren’t fucked.

    2. Weird how neither side got what they wanted and yet they still fucked over every worker in America and did nothing to address the budget and deficit problem.

      1. It’s not weird at all, it is the obvious and direct outcome of democracy and government.

      2. The payroll tax holiday, IIRC, was a piece of naked pandering on the part of the Obama Administration anyway.

        1. So what? Pander some more. I’m still paying a shitload of money to the feds.

      3. No, weird would have been if the opposite had happened.

  17. Tax hikes are better and less destructive than future debt monetization. If one has the option of being forced to eat fecal matter vs. being injected with fecal matter straight into one’s veins, most people would choose the latter. Voters (even many libertarians) are the same way when it comes to comparing taxes with currency devaluation. Of course, this is irrational if your goal is long-term survival. You’d puke up most of the fecal matter if forced to eat it. Direct injection won’t taste bad but will kill you much more quickly.

    1. Tax hikes are better and less destructive than future debt monetization.

      I think that frankly depends on your personal financial situation. Anyone with lots of low-interest debt is rooting for monetization.

      1. Personal financial situations won’t matter if they devalue the dollar another 95% over the next few decades. If you have a fixed interest rate maybe it will benefit you in the short term, but in the long term, everyone still has to live with the sky-high prices. If racking up debt is your personal thing, your habit’s unlikely to change just because each dollar is worth less.

        1. They do if you have guaranteed COLA in your contract! Bring on the monetization! Woot woot.

          1. Contractual COLA’s can be eliminated with Barack Obama’s pen.

      2. We’re monetizing now.

        Monetization, which leads to serious inflation, is in the short-term interest of debtors, and inflicts pain on savers in equal measure.

        The problem with monetization is that it has never, as far as I know, ever been unwound in less than catastrophic fashion. So everyone, debtor and saver alike, will feel massive pain when the monetization/inflation feedback cycle goes out of control and wrecks the currency and the economy.

        1. So…

          We’re eating poop and having it injected in at the same time?

          It’s the best of both worlds!

    2. The best option is, of course not having to eat or inject fecal matter at all, but unfortunately, we’re strapped to a gurney in a room with a cruel, psychopathic government with a sick fecal fetish. So that’s not a real choice.

      1. You guys are both full of shit.

      2. The best option is, of course not having to eat or inject fecal matter at all, but unfortunately, we’re strapped to a gurney in a room with a cruel, psychopathic government with a sick fecal fetish. So that’s not a real choice.

        Were you up late last night watching Human Centipede?

        1. I was watching the news, so basically yes.

          Wanted the banira pesuto, but we got the katorufishu.

  18. A majority of the country voted for Obama. Either they want to pay higher taxes or are too stupid to have any sympathy for.

    1. Either they want to pay higher taxes or are too stupid to have any sympathy for.

      I believe the correct answer is “yes”.

    2. It’s a very simple and 2 part problem.

      1. The freepers. They absolutely do not want to pay taxes, or any taxes. They want YOU to pay more taxes because they want more free shit.

      2. Women. Women pretty much sealed the deal for the jug eared doofus in chief. Why? Because the GOP will put vaginas in chains, and fairness. White males are the problem. They oppress all the other people of earth. Including women and all minorities. The GOP represents white males. So, women vote the other way.

      It really is that simple if you want the truth.

      1. Uh, let’s not collectively guilt women either, dude. Because your statement is way hyberbolic but I’m hoping that’s more for dramatic effect than anything else.

        1. Give me your man card, pussy.

          1. I already gave mine away years ago to your mom, ProL.

            1. That explains much that was heretofore unexplained.

        2. It’s just facts, Epi. Look at the statistics. Women voted for Obama, and the reasons are exactly what I said they are.

          If you want to see what our country will look like in another decade or so, just look at Europe. The Swedes in particular have went full on retard with the fairness indoctrination shit. In France, Muslims burned over 1000 cars in the streets on New Years, and the western media is so scared of offending any group of people that you do not even see this reported in the MSM.

          1. It is beyond ridiculous to say that all women voted for Obama. Seriously, just back away now before you go full on misogynist. You want to hate on all people who actually voted for Obama, go for it. After all, they did in fact do the thing you said they did. But saying all women voted for Obama and therefore they’re the problem is fucking obnoxious.

            1. It’s as obnoxious as saying that brown people won’t get teh liberty message.

            2. I thought it was pretty close to 50%, give or take 5%.

            3. Geez, Epi, what the fuck is it with you today? I never said all women voted for Obama. I said MOST of the women who voted, voted for Obama, and that is one half of HOW he got the votes he did.

              You see misogynist in that? Lol, whatever.

              Did I mistakenly post on Jezebel.com today, instead of Reason?

              1. You never said “all women,” but you said “women,” repeatedly, not “some women,” or even “a majority of women” (not sure if that is true) or “a majority of women who voted.” You did not, in fact, say “most.”

                1. Ok, I ‘meant’ most women. I stand corrected. But that is what I meant. To think that I meant ‘all’ women, which I did not say either, is a ridiculous assumption. Epi was just going off a witch hunt looking for woman haters and vampires, or something, and I was convenient, I suppose.

              2. I wasn’t aware that disliking collective guilting of women made me a Jezebel poster. But now I know, thanks for that. Maybe you can collective guilt me too while you’re at it?

                1. Maybe you can collective guilt me too while you’re at it?

                  Well, geez, first I need a category for you so that I can collective guilt you. I can’t just colletively guilt you with nothin to go on.

                  1. Oh, wait. Yes I can. Here goes.

                    MEN voted for Romney. There, you see. I didn’t say MOST men, I just said men. So therefore, you should interpret that as me having meant ALL men, although you know that would be a ridiculous assumption.

                    There now. Are you offended? I didn’t think so.

                    So take your collective guilt witch hunt elsewhere, mister!

          2. It’s just facts, Epi. Look at the statistics. Women voted for Obama, and the reasons are exactly what I said they are.

            Mine didn’t.

            She voted Gary Johnson. And unbeknownst to me before she pulled the proverbial lever. I was proud as a pig in shit.

      2. Because the GOP will put vaginas in chains

        The GOP did it to themselves. Don’t blame the bullet, the gun, the foot or the finger when you pull the trigger all on your own.

        1. Sort of yes and sort of no. The Administration planted that question with Stephanopolous. Yes, I really believe that.

          There was a special kind of retard who thought Mitt Romney was a serious danger to abortion and social services.

          1. If you show a retard cake–despite knowing what will happen–getting attacked is on you.

            1. They do all want cake. You can’t say you weren’t warned.

            2. Man, we just called the entire populace cake-obsessed retards.

              1. Man, we just called the entire populace cake-obsessed retards.

                Well you are.

                1. Well you are.

                  I’m not a sweets person, myself. I wonder if I could possibly forego anti-government advocacy for a promise of Pinot Noir. Although it would be Government Wine, which means I’d be getting vinegar half the time and the dreaded Chardonnay the other half.

              2. Man, we just called the entire populace cake-obsessed retards.

                This is why there are no women libertarians.

                1. There are some women libertarians. Just not many.

                  The reasons are obvious to me, but discussing that usually brings out the very worst in the wimins folk, so I keep it to myself.

                  Also, if I was a woman, I would never come here, you vile disgusting pigs.

              3. I have to come clean. I really like cake too.

                1. Yes, but do you like retard cake?

                  What is retard cake anyway? Is it the dessert version of deep-dish?

                  1. “Is it the dessert version of deep-dish?”

                    It’s known as derp-dish.

          2. You really do. It is amazing how people can get themselves so lathered up over the dumbest possibilities. It is no different that the Right thinking Obama was somehow going to stop fighting the war on terror.

        2. You aren’t getting the point of my post, SF.

          I am not saying that the GOP did not do it to themselves. I have been saying exactly that ever since they nominated Romney and since they cannot find the wisdom to let go of the losing SoCon formula.

          But my point is why Obama won, how he got the votes, not about whose fault it was.

      3. the deal was sealed by minorities and wimmins. per the CS Monitor:

        Look at the basic breakdown of Mr. Obama’s victory, according to exit polls (which may yet be revised). He won 93 percent of African-Americans, 71 percent of Hispanics, and 73 percent of Asians. He took 55 percent of the overall female vote, down only one percentage point from his comparable 2008 showing.

        Mitt Romney, meanwhile, won about 59 percent of the white vote. That’s the best a GOP nominee has done among whites since 1988, and not too long ago such a performance might have guaranteed a winning margin of 270 electoral votes. After all, whites still make up 72 percent of US voters.

        Romney won white men by 25 points. It wasn’t enough

        –i should note that technically he did not win white men by 25 points. the CS monitor is wrong. he won NONhispanic white men by 25 points. most hispanics in the US are white.

        1. Eat shit while dying in a fire, cunt.

    3. A majority of the country voted for Obama.

      Majority: you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

      1. If you didn’t vote, you can’t really complain.

        1. If you didn’t vote, you can’t really complain.

          But they can still share the blame.

          1. If you didn’t vote, you can’t really complain.

            But they can still share the blame.

            Wrong and wrong. Apparently you two belong with Tony in believing that not doing something is doing something.

            1. There is a difference between signing the social contract in blood by never choosing to leave the country, and staying home on election day.

              Though to be honest, I think election outcomes would be better if more low information voters ignorant fucktards stayed home, rather than by having more people vote.

              1. Wrong and wrong. Apparently you two belong with Tony in believing that not doing something is doing something.

                I’m not saying that by not voting you therefore voted for Obama. I’m saying that by not voting, you didn’t vote for (insert candidate name here). Just because a candidate of substance didn’t stand a chance in this election, it doesn’t mean you didn’t have someone worth voting for. Face it, if you chose not to vote, you threw your vote away.

                1. Just because a candidate of substance didn’t stand a chance in this election, it doesn’t mean you didn’t have someone worth voting for.

                  There were no candidates of substance, therefore there was no one worth voting for.

                  Face it, if you chose not to vote, you threw your vote away.

                  Throwing ones vote away implies a wasted vote for the wrong person. I did no such thing by not voting.

                  1. Throwing ones vote away implies a wasted vote for the wrong person. I did no such thing by not voting.

                    My point was that by not choosing, you made a choice. By not voting, you essentially chose to vote for “no one.” Well Mr. No One had less substance than any other candidate out there. So your vote was thrown away.

                    1. My point was that by not choosing, you made a choice. By not voting, you essentially chose to vote for “no one.” Well Mr. No One had less substance than any other candidate out there. So your vote was thrown away.

                      By that metric, “No One” should have won and nobody should be occupying the White House for the next four years. A satisfactory outcome, but not an option. Therefore, not voting is a valid position and one that should grant one the right to bitch about the assholes a gamed system helped put into office.

                    2. By that metric, “No One” should have won and nobody should be occupying the White House for the next four years. A satisfactory outcome, but not an option. Therefore, not voting is a valid position and one that should grant one the right to bitch about the assholes a gamed system helped put into office.

                      You’re second premise is right on. Not voting is a valid position and should grant one the right to bitch. Unfortunately, the US constitution does not recognize my view on the vote for “no one,” though this country would probably run better with no president as opposed to Obama or Romney in office.

                      I support Sparky’s right to not vote. I also support my right say he threw his vote away for the wrong candidate. I fail to see a problem here.

            2. Tony only believes that doing nothing is doing something when it comes to penaltaxes. Otherwise, it’s still doing nothing.

              IOW, doing nothing constitutes doing something when the government can’t find any more revenue from existing sources.

        2. Why not? If you think the choices all suck, or that the only choice that you believe will actually represent you has no chance of winning, what’s the point?
          This last election was the complete inverse of my ballot.
          If I had not voted the outcome would have been the same.

          Why does going through some pointless ceremony of making marks on paper that will not be counted give you more of a right to complain than someone who didn’t bother because they know that their vote will not matter?

          1. Why does going through some pointless ceremony of making marks on paper that will not be counted give you more of a right to complain than someone who didn’t bother because they know that their vote will not matter?

            I agree with you to a point sarc. I think we all have plenty to complain about, and I don’t think it requires one to cast a ballot in order to have the right to do so. However, I don’t agree that voting is pointless just because your candidate doesn’t win. Maybe that’s because I still have a small sliver of hope that this country isn’t doomed to destruction. But I’ve been wrong before.

            1. I don’t agree that voting is pointless just because your candidate doesn’t win.

              Voting is pointless because no matter who wins nothing is going to change. The size and scope of government is well beyond any one person to do anything about, even the President.

              1. lol nothing is going to change.

                we have had immense changes in govt. many negative and many positive (heller, mcdonald, etc. etc.).

                that’s simply utter rubbish. SO much has changed.

                heck, just due to my state supreme court (and they are elected) we have had DOZENS of pro privacy, anti-statism court decisions in the last 10 yrs – from the outlawing of pretext stops (rare amongst states), to the elimination of search of a motor vehicle incident to arrest, to the ferrier decision, etc.

                immense changes. and many very positive.

              2. The only way any real change is coming to this country, in our lifetime, is if states rebel against the feds. Outside of economic collapse. Which will probably be very, very bad for most people. Although, probably not any worse than the tyranny that is going to ensue with the extended expansion of big centralized government.

                We already have a small example of that in CO and WA legalizing weed. Think that would ever happen if it were up to the feds. No way.

                Of course that trend could also go in the wrong direction for liberty, in some cases, see Cali. But at least we could pick and choose which state we wanted to live in and move to a freer state.

              3. Voting is pointless because no matter who wins nothing is going to change. The size and scope of government is well beyond any one person to do anything about, even the President.

                So you’ve given up hope then? Let’s look at your choices:

                a) make for the hills and live off the radar so big government can’t get you

                b) “Let the revolution begin!”

                c) bite the barrel and pull the trigger

                d) lock yourself in your mom’s basement and piss and moan online until someone congratulates you on your intellectual superiority.

                Moron

                1. So you’ve given up hope then?

                  On the government in its current form, yes I have.

                  Moron

                  Right, the guy that believes the government is screwed and refuses to support it anymore is the moron here.

                2. You forgot: get so rich it doesn’t matter anywore.

                3. Crane, looks like you’ve spent too much time in the government indoctrination centers otherwise known as schools, otherwise you’d know that life is not a multiple choice exam where someone else determines the choices.

                  I choose e) to live my life as best I can and try not to worry too much about things that I cannot control.

        3. Do you mean to say “If you didn’t vote for Mitt Romney you can’t really complain”, because I voted for Gary Johnson, and I’m proud of my vote.

          And non-action =/= action, John, so your entire premise is bullshit.

          1. I don’t call him Red Tony for nothing!

          2. because I voted for Gary Johnson, and I’m proud of my vote.

            There’s that sliver of hope I was talking about. I’m proud of you too sloopy

            1. There’s that sliver of hope I was talking about. I’m proud of you too sloopy.

              There’s that assumption that Gary Johnson would have been the right man for the job.

              1. There’s that assumption that Gary Johnson would have been the right man for the job.

                Compared to Door #1 and Door #2, I’ll take that chance.

              2. There’s that assumption that Gary Johnson would have been the right man for the job.

                You’re the one assuming things. I didn’t say he would have been the right man. I implied he would have been the better man.

            2. i voted for johnson because i live in WA and romney had no chance whatsoever in my state.

              if i lived in a state where romney had a chance, it would have been romney vote all the way. romney obama even though he has mass suckitude imnsho

        4. I thought you weren’t going to vote? Might I ask who you decided to cast your ballot for?

    4. um, no

      obama won 50.4% of the popular vote.

      that does not mean a majority of the country voted for him. hint: many people don’t vote. winning 50.4% of the VOTES does not mean 50.4% of the country. not even close.

      1. Also, if I recall, the voter turnout among women is much higher than among men. Adding to the Obama vote even more because of his advantage with the ‘don’t tread upon my vagina’ crowd.

        1. while true, the voter turnout among married women with children is highest amongst women, and that group has the lowest obama support compared to single women and single women with chilluns.

    5. What’s really fucked up when you actually think about it is that only a quarter of the country voted for Obama. The other 3/4 basically voted for not Obama (either by non-voting or through the other candidates).

      1. I see it a different way. Virtually every non-vote is a vote that would have gone Democrat.

  19. Another good thing about the Cliff Deal is that the House didn’t take up the bloated Sandy aid package and every loathsome pol from NJ/NY is crying delicious tears.

    1. silver lining dept: paul mccartney performing with the surviving members of nirvana.

      1. I want to hear Dave Grohl’s version of “Uncle Albert / Admiral Halsey”

  20. Chuck Garabedian: You gotta squeeze every penny. You see this tux? I got it cheap cause Roy Cohn died in it.
    Crowd: Ooh!
    Chuck: That fancy yacht? A bargain cause it smells like cat pee.
    Crowd: Ooooh!
    Chuck: And those beautiful women? They used to be men.
    Crowd: Eeew!

    1. Thats right! You fat-cats didn’t finish your plankton … now its mine!

  21. if you are tired of paying social security, you could always consider a career in law enforcement. many agencies are exempt and you don’t have to pay social security.

    1. Anything to keep the Praetorian Guard on your side.

      1. or the New Centurions (great book)

        1. They haven’t made a good cop movie since the 70’s.

          1. What about The Departed?

            And Training Day had a very realistic feel to it.

            1. What about The Departed?

              That’s artisanal mayo talk, bub. That Hollywood raped the Infernal Affairs trilogy, took everything that was interesting out of the setting (because HK is like, too ethnic! Can’t have an Asian leading man, now can we?), and dumbed it down to pre-school level. Finally, Matt Damon.

              1. agree 100%. infernal affairs is awesome.

                departed was sucky.

                also, as a former MA cop, infernal affairs didn’t get the MA cop dynamics right.

                matt damon was better as a cop assaulter (goodwill hunting) than any sort of cop like entity.

                1. ugh. the DEPARTED didn’t get the MA cop dynamic right. hint: Boston cop MA state trooper

    2. Why do government workers even pay taxes? They can just give you a net pay slip. But of course we have to keep the illusion that government workers are equally paying their “fair share.”

    3. F that. I’d rather join the Amish.

      1. The Amish Mafia?

    4. I have always thought that a career in the investigation of serious crime cases would be interesting. I am seriously hooked on shows like solved and missing. Although recently, my favorite is locked up abroad.

      Since my job now involves heavy amount of time spent analyzing things and I am apparently quite suited for it, might be a good transition for me.

      How do you get out of paying SS? I thought everyone had to pay it.

      1. no. govt. agencies had a period of several years where they could opt out.

        my current agency, unfortunately, did not, but my prior agency did. friend of mine works for kirkland PD and she doesn’t pay because they opted out.

        my understanding is that agencies that opted out MUST offer a 403(b). my agency offers one even though we didn’t opt out and i max it out every year (about 16k). my personal philosophy is to put 25% of income into retirement savings/investments. iow, don’t rely on social security. WA state has a DECENT (not great) retirement plan. probably the weakest part is unlike some plans, you can’t continue the paid-for health insurance while in retirement and that can be a huge expense. my agency pays 100% of our medical plan!

  22. Sure we pay a lot of taxes, BUT LOOK AT THE BENEFITS:

    1. We beat them Commies!

    2. Flags on the MOON!

    3. The best paid teachers on Earth!

    4. Mortgages for poor people.

    5. Credit cards for poor people.

    6. Medical care for poor people.

    7. We beat them Talibans!

    1. 7. Meh, not so sure, I think the Taliban will be back in power in Afghanistan sooner than we think. They may be beaten down, but not beaten.

  23. WA update.

    Well, it’s been almost a month since LEGAL MJ. no federal shenanigans yet that i can see.

    one interesting unintended consequence: drug dogs in my agency are largely decommissioned/useless. since they are trained to trigger on marijuana, among other kind of drugs, a dog “hit” is largely useless since it can’t discriminate if the dog is hitting on pot or ILLEGAL drugs.

    my partner pulled over a car the other day and while they still got a ticket for a revoked driver’s license, they got to keep their LEGAL pot.

    i have yet to respond to a paper detail where somebody is sitting inside a house puffing away at a joint, but it’s just a matter of time.

    again, the feds have been whisper quiet. must be part of obama’s 3 dimensional chess

    1. And in other Washington news, life goes on as normal.

      FTA: A female Seattle police officer alleged Morales, 30, punched her and kicked another officer. Morales was charged with assault for the incident.

      However, those charges were later dropped when a video of the scene revealed that no such assault on Morales’ part took place.

      No officers were charged.

      1. Funny. I had an acquaintance get run over by his girlfriend (Wakulla County, fuck yeah!) after a dispute in front of the jail (he had to blow clean as part of his probation). The police listened to about five seconds of his bullshit story about the car being in the wrong gear or something, then made very clear to him that falsifying a police report was a felony.

        1. derp derp derp derp

          1. oh btw, while they may have claimed that, as a scare tactic, falsifying a NONsworn (as police reports are) is a misdemeanor. it’s only a felony when it’s sworn testimony, despite what some police report warnings say, and that only happens in court.

            1. Funny, it wasn’t a felony when the officers in the linked story used it to get an arrest warrant sworn out. It wasn’t a misdemeanor either. As a matter of fact, it won’t cost anybody except the taxpayers of Seattle when the civil action comes down.

        2. Why didn’t your acquaintance refer the investigator to his union contract and clam up until his buddies showed up and ran the investigation a couple of days later?

    2. Only news I have heard is about some pot clubs opening up in CO. Haven’t heard anything from WA.

    3. again, the feds have been whisper quiet.

      From what I gather, they’re still working on their strategy. I believe its either

      (1) Come down hard on producers/retailers, or

      (2) Come down hard on producers/retailers and users.

      The second one is in the running because they think they might be able to get a court victory on legalized use as being inconsistent with federal pot prohibition under the Supremacy Clause, but its a risky play, so they’re having to think on it.

      The public pronouncements on this have been consistent with (1), but not consistent with foregoing enforcement of federal law in states that have legalized.

      1. i strongly doubt 2.

        recall that in WA, fwiw for the next 10 months or so there is no legal way to distribute (apart from medical mj) MJ under state law. unlike colorado’s initiative, we didn’t legalize nonmedical grows or any distribution network YET. it’s coming but not for about a year.

        iow, you can legally possess it, but nobody can legally sell or distribute non medical MJ to you.

        nothing has changed in that the people are still getting it from the same places. the dealers are still TECHNICALLY breaking the law although at least in my agency, there is no push to go after small MJ sales since the possession of same is legal, it’s viewed as un-cricket so to speak

      2. I think the strategy for states should be, pass as many fucking referendums as you possibly can that will piss off the feds to the maximum amount possible, as fast as possible. Just overload them with such a load of battles that it overwhelms them and causes them to spontaneously combust and burn, baby, burn!

        1. “Those are some nice federal highway funds you got there. Would be a shame if something happened to them.”

          1. So, the feds collect money from the citizens of the states, and then coerce them with their own money.

    4. again, the feds have been whisper quiet. must be part of obama’s 3 dimensional chess

      They are waiting to go after producers, just like they have done in california for the past 4 years. duh.

  24. Ok, so speaking of tax avoidance strategies. Do we have any accountants in here? Trying to decide whether it makes sense for my wife and I to get “divorced” for the tax and welfare benefits.

    I make ~$100k a year and she’s a SAHM, we have 4 kids between us, one of whom is not biologically mine.

    I’m thinking that with both of us filing single head of household, her claiming my stepson and my claiming the other 3 we should end up with pretty close to a negative income tax liability. Only thing I worry about is whether we could get away with it since we would still be living together and the only thing which would change is our legal marriage status.

    1. You may have to apply in her name for a section 8 apartment in a project to complete the illusion. USe it as a mail drop.
      You could sublet it to crack dealers, nobody would notice.

    2. Get a duplex. One side is in her name, one is in yours. You’re doing it “for the children”, to keep their lives from being disrupted too much by the tragic collapse of your marriage.

      1. Are you kidding? I live in Massachusetts, rent on a 1 bedroom shithole runs $1000 a month. The rent on a second apartment would actually exceed our total tax liability.

        Thing is we wouldn’t be filing for welfare or medicare or anything like that, just looking to shave a few grand off of expenses and possibly get my wife a free ride back to finish her degree so I’m not really sure what the legal ramifications are.

        1. You can’t even rent a one bedroom apartment anywhere in Baltimore, that you wouldn’t be in constant fear for your life, 24/7, for less than $1200 a month. 2 bedrooms start around $1400.

        2. “I live in Massachusetts”

          Ah, I think I see your problem.

          1. Yeah well I tried living in low cost of living states, I spent the last 15 years in Atlanta Ga, Columbus/Cincinnati Ohio, and Louisville KY and the problem I kept running into was every time 1 job ended there were no other jobs in my field in the city (Software QA) so I decided to try an area with a huge number of jobs in my field and see how that worked out because I’d like to live in one place for a while now that my kids are in Middle School.

    3. As a married couple with 4 kids making a 100K, you probably don’t pay very much income tax anyway as it is, assuming you own a home.

      1. Nope, not very much, I think I’ve averaged a total income tax liability of somewhere around $1500 a year the last 4 years, however since that is going up and I really can’t afford the increase I’m looking for ways to keep it the same or even go down some

  25. Households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will face an average tax increase of $579 in 2013 . . .

    Awesome. It’s not like I could use that money to help keep my kid out of government school prisons, or to help substantially with a nice vacation with my family. I guess only Emperor Barack and The First Wookie deserve nice vacations.

    I didn’t need that money anyways. I mean, my wife is an evil 1% Executive Asst. at a KKKORPORASHUN and all; surely that money is MUCH better off in the hands of bureaucrats.

    1. Well, the best that you can hope for is that your wifes place of employment is not one of those smaller, yet still evil no doubt, corps, that the feds are about to tax out of existence.

      1. They’re not Walmart big, but it’s more than a small local outfit. They have an international presence with thousands of employees.

  26. I reiterate my 2 step solution to the SS/Medicare/FICA problem:

    1) Raise eligibility age for SS/Medicare by 45 days per year. Starting next year. Don’t touch anybody already on the dole, or any body who will be there within one year. DO NOT have a frikkin sunset clause on this. Don’t use the word “dole” when explaining to the un-monocled.

    2) merge all current FICA taxes into normal income tax code. Including the “employer contribution”, which will now show up as being paid by employee. No actual changes occur to how much any person pays. It’s strictly an accounting and reporting change. IRS will be in charge of collecting this tribute. Disband collection arms of SS/Medicare.

    Probably still end up in a hyperinflationary spiral. But this would give us a shot.

    1. Instead of 45 days, it should be 2 months per year.

      That was what they did to phase in the change from 65 (born 1937) to 67 (born 1960), although it paused for 1943-54 at age 66.

      Continue that phase in, and apply it to medicare as well as SS. Born in 1966, age 68. Born in 1972, age 69. etc.

      For myself, born in 1969, that would mean 68 years and 6 months.

      This isnt a huge hardship. People born in 1961 are still 15 years away from age 67, so that is plenty of time to adjust for an additional 2 months.

    2. What about the option of allowing younger contributors to just opt out for a partial return on what they have paid?

      If I could opt out, and I am only about 15 years or so from possible retirement, I would take 50% of what I paid in and get out now.

      The entire thing is doomed for collapse anyway. It makes no sense to keep paying into a system that the age of payback keeps rising indefinitely until there is no chance of getting anything back before death.

    3. Combine this with means testing. The quickest possible way out of this mess is to phase it out as fast as possible.

      If you are a millionaire sorry, your congress made promises they coudln’t keep.

      If you are living on catfood, fine, we wont’ cut you off yet.

      If you aren’t yet on social security, here’s our adjusted plan for what we’ll pay you, ASSUMING you retire broke. …(graduated schedule dropping to 0 ).

      Done.

      Oh, and eliminate payroll tax, it’s evil.

      But.. the point of social security is to steal from the working class so this won’t happen until the net gains from FICA are below 0.

  27. lol, the Sheeple are bamboozled yet again lol. Its the American way!

    http://www.otAnon.tk

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