USA Today Reminds that One-Size-Fits-All Federal Gun Laws Put Innocent People Behind Bars

Just a simple question of what constitutes a felony causes problems

Way back in June, Brad Heath of USA Today did some excellent work reporting on dozens of federal prisoners serving sentences for federal gun laws that it turns out they didn't actually violate. Federal law prohibits convicted felons from owning guns. But North Carolina's complex sentencing system makes a mess of an attempt at creating federal gun-ownership guidelines. As a result, USA Today determined there were about 60 men in federal prisons for owning guns, even though their previous crimes weren't serious enough to be considered felonies.

Heath follows up today with a combination of bad news and good news. The bad news is that the number is higher: About 175 federal prisoners may have been improperly imprisoned or sentenced. The good news is the federal government is actually responding to try to fix the situation:

USA TODAY's investigation in June identified 60 people imprisoned even though a U.S. appeals court said what they had done was not a federal crime. Still, Justice Department lawyers did almost nothing to notify prisoners — many unaware they were innocent — and asked federal judges to keep them locked up anyway. The department reversed that position in August.

Since then, federal judges have ordered the government to free at least 32 prisoners, and have taken 12 more off post-prison supervision, court records show. Some had served up to eight years before they were freed.

It's an important reminder for anybody looking to the federal government to cobble together some sort of "fix" to keep bad people (whoever those might be) from getting guns. Even legislation as seemingly simple as forbidding felons from owning guns has unintended consequences when applied to a host of state and municipal laws.

Comments

[Rich]

Even legislation as seemingly simple as forbidding felons from owning guns has unintended consequences when applied to a host of state and municipal laws.

Perhaps David Gregory will address this issue on Meet the Press.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Oh, snap.

[sloopyinca]

Has anybody seen the defense of David Gregory's lawbreaking by those on the left saying he had a right to do what he did because of the 1A "Freedom Of The Press"?

Will they be OK when he robs a convenience store in an attempt to show America how easy it is? Or when he brings a kilo of heroin across the border to show how easy it is? I can't wait to see the way he does his expose on how easy people get away with campus rape.

Seriously, it's a stupid law, but if there's any justice in the world, he'll be charged with the aggravated felony as well as obstruction for not listening to the police when they told him he couldn't do it. I really want to see him use the 2A as his defense against an idiotic restriction. Or I want to see him go to jail on principle.

[Rich]

Oh, snap. 😉

[John]

It is either contraband or it is not. IF it is, and it appears to have been, then he committed a crime and ought to be prosecuted.

[T o n y]

Now imagine if he were Mike Huckabee.

[nicole]

The number of prisoners ultimately freed or given shorter sentences is likely to be higher than 175 because the examination by federal prosecutors was confined to the smallest of North Carolina's three U.S. court districts. Justice Department spokesman Wyn Hornbuckle said "many more" cases could be upended when all are reviewed.

I have to give serious credit to Brad Heath and USA Today for sparking this investigation.

[Fist of Etiquette]

And no credit to prosecutors and federal judges whose ignorance or malice stole people's freedom.

[sloopyinca]

But how else are they supposed to help their friends that operate private prisons get rich?

Or do they just do that with children?

[Res Publica Americana]

Wait, what? Prohibitionism fucks shit up and ruins lives? CANNOT BELIEVE!

[Kyfho Myoba]

No, no, no. Mistakes were made! No system is perfect! How dare you question the sincerity and motivation of the good people of the Justice Department!

[Res Publica Americana]

That's okay. The Emperor of Man'll just send Inquisitors to put me in my place!

[BakedPenguin]

You have been found guilty of commerce with the devil. Interstate commerce with the devil!

[InlineSkate]

Kind of sad really. These people throw years of their lives away and won't see so much as a dime in compensation for it either.

[Res Publica Americana]

But that's what the Patriots bled for all those years ago, that our children may one day languish in chains for committing no crime at all.

God bless the Imperator and his righteous apparatus of state.

[Hyperion]

Just a little look at the type of mentality that is rampant on the left, here is a post from one of the lefttards over at Politico about the deport Piers Morgan petition, that now has more than 65,000 sigs.

That is a great sign--only 60K gun-crazy nuts to watch out for, catch and put in prison, for the safety of the children and firefighters.

Thanks, Mr. Morgan, for your role as bait. Please enjoy our hospitality for as long as you like, as payment for services rendered

No, this is not sarcasm, the fucking retard who posted this is being serious and there are a lot more where she came from.

[fish]

Maybe there's a blowjob in there for Piers as well.....for the children!

[Hyperion]

On a funnier note, the Brits started their own petition in favor of us not sending him back.

I would say we keep him for entertainment value if we didn't already have more than enough clowns in the media.

[Res Publica Americana]

I have a friend in London who's a virulent, highly pro-American republican (in the British meaning of the word) who's fairly close to Ron Paul in terms of ideology. Those sorts of Europeans are fucking rare. Imagine how much it must suck to be him in a place like London.

[fish]

Yeah...well we're a superpower so we can force them to take him back...limey fuckwads!

[Hyperion]

Here's another gem from Politoburo:

All President Obama needs to do is declare the NRA a terrorist organization. If he would be willing to do that, the entire subject falls under the national security umbrella and the NRA can be shut down in 10 minutes or less

Does anyone seriously think that we should have any type of debate with these morons?

[Scott S.]

Just like we shut down Al Qaeda! In 10 minutes!

[fish]

Who says television hasn't ruined lives? Too much time wasted masturbating over the fabulous exploits of Jack Bauer to live in the real world again!

WHO DO YOU WORK FOAR?????

[Generic Stranger]

Soooooo....

They want to turn 4 million people (plus the 30 million or so others who think they're NRA members but haven't paid dues for a while or simply identify strongly with the NRA's core mission) into actual terrorists?

You know, the several million people who are most likely armed to the teeth, have a higher-than-average likelihood of having police and/or military training, and tend to have tattoos saying ????? ?????

And they think this would turn out well...just why, exactly?

[iggy]

Note: The type of people advocating this are the same ones who, rightfully, criticized the Bush administration for enacting those laws in the first place.

Hooray! Let's use laws that we were initially against in order to illegally imprison law abiding American citizens! Problem solved!

[Caleb Turberville]

Didn't the Bush Justice Department just cobble up legislation based on provisions that had been on the Reno Justice Department wishlist for years?

[iggy]

Yeah, but if Clinton had passed those laws, liberals would have been in favor of them. Behold, the glory of partisan hacks!

[Generic Stranger]

Yeah....that mess was fairly bipartisan, unfortunately. Hence why Obama signed extensions of the PATRIOT Act, and why a Democratic-controlled Congress passed it.

[iggy]

Yes, but I think the average liberal was against the Patriot Act. They just choose to ignore the fact that their heroes were voting for it the whole time.

Glory of partisan hacks, yada yada.

[Hyperion]

Because they are fucking stupid, that's why. If there is any one more likely answer, then I would love to hear it.

[Mad Scientist]

Maybe I'm just getting too damn cynical, but this seems like one of the most honest things I've seen from the gun control side. They really do see gun owners as potential terrorists.

[Caleb Turberville]

The Clinton administration (especially 93-95, if I remember correctly) loved to cast aspersion on small government, pro gun people on the right. He retreated a bit after having his ass handed to him in the 94 congressional elections. (It didn't keep him from drawing comparison to Timothy McVeigh in April 1995, though). However, the Clinton Justice Department really, really wanted to pursue those on the right of gun control as terrorist organizations.

[John]

To this day people, even sadly people on this board, claim that McVeigh was a "right wing Christian terrorist". The fact that he was an atheist whose views on American foreign policy were somewhere to the left Chomsky is never allowed to get in the way of a good slander.

[Caleb Turberville]

I actually did not know he was to the left of Chomsky on foreign policy. Interesting. But, needless to say, I've never cared to learn more about his beliefs. You can't settle your grievances the way he did. Period.

[John]

Exactly. He was a fucking nut loser who should be forgotten. But he turned against US foreign policy when he served in the First Gulf War. I wouldn't call him a lefty or a rightwinger. I would just call him a fucking nut who deserved to die and leave it at that.

[Sevo]

Hyperion| 12.26.12 @ 7:15PM |#
"Here's another gem from Politoburo" (with fixes by Sevo):

'All President Obama needs to do is declare the Democratic party a terrorist organization. If he would be willing to do that, the entire subject falls under the national security umbrella and the Democratic party can be shut down in 10 minutes or less'

Pretty sure that'd work unless the sleazy Team Blue members beat it over the hill like they did in Wisconsin.

[Hyperion]

Yet another gem from Polititardia:

There are 160,000,000 quiet and normal law abiding American's who support Mr. Morgan. Keep up the excellent work Mr. Morgan!

[iggy]

Someone really needs to show these people a poll about support for gun control. Even after Sandy Hook, when you would have expected the MOST pro-gun control sentiment, 50% of those polled were against any increase in gun control and 44% were in favor of more gun control. That's immediately after Sandy Hook, so the actual numbers are probably more lopsided.

These people think they're a majority, even though they certainly are not.

[Hyperion]

But what you are not taking into consideration is the way that they really think.

Their guy won! Whoohooo, they won, they won! So now whatever sort of insanity they think of, their fearless hero will carry out! Because he can do anything, he is all powerful and righteous! What would Jesus do? Huh, what would Jesus do?

[juris imprudent]

When you win, your shit no longer stinks.

[VG Zaytsev]

These people think they're a majority, even though they certainly are not.

But everybody they know thinks the same way.

[sloopyinca]

There are 160,000,000 quiet and normal law abiding American's who support Mr. Morgan. Keep up the excellent work Mr. Morgan!

Yeah, they're so quiet in their support that they don't even watch his show. It's the world's largest sleeper cell I guess.

[American Is Back]

American culture circa 2013 is very strange. I recently got off the phone with my cousin, who is in a what polite Americans would call a "troubled relationship." Here's how the story goes: He meets this girl in college. He graduates from college. He marries the girl.(He asked twice before she accepted) He goes out and buys a nice house in the suburbs. They won't have kids for a number of reasons, a small house, bad(i.e. non-white) schools, but the main reason I detected from talking to them was simple. She "didn't know if he was right for me." I've heard this a million times in my life and still have no idea what it means. They are both healthy intelligent, attractive, politically libertarian, college educated people, the same exact age, and they grew up in the same city. But that apparently isn't enough. They have to "have" something. She is "bored." Um, yeah, life is boring. Now they are "thinking about divorce." My cousin fears that he might become like his older brother. He is divorced with two kids and miserable, and doesn't ever plan on getting married again. He told his little brother to be very careful before he marries someone. Now he wishes he had listened to the advice. It makes me wonder about the future of this society. My two cousins are both very intelligent libertarians, one of whom may never have children and one of whom can't raise the children he has. I wonder what the cosmos think about problems like this, if they think they are problems at all.

[Res Publica Americana]

I believe in families, generally dislike drugs and alcohol, wish to have children with a wife of my choosing in a stable relationship at some point, and disagree with the tendencies of libertines.

What's your fucking point? You're not one of those dipshits whose goal is to impose social rules by law, are you?

[iggy]

"You're not one of those dipshits whose goal is to impose social rules by law, are you?"

You must not know Merkin. His definition of a cosmatarian is "Anyone who professes to be a libertarian, but thinks it's wrong that I consider my wife to be my property."

[Res Publica Americana]

I suspected as much. The prescription of social customs by the force of law is an utter abomination. Fuck that shit.

[American Is Back]

Iggy is a classic cosmo. Just because I believe in the traditional family I think my wife is "property." The traditional family is slavery, isn't my friend? After all, I learned it in college so it must be true.

[iggy]

EHHHHH! Wrong. You believe your wife is property because you once said you believe your wife is property. When I called you on the fact that you think your wife is property, you responded by saying "Well how would you feel if your girlfriend cheated on you? You'd be upset. Therefore you also believe your girlfriend is property!"

You're the one who idiotically conflated the idea that your wife is property with the fact that you'd be upset if she cheated on you. Don't get pissy with me for calling you on your horseshit and impressively flexible vocabulary.

[American Is Back]

I was joking when I said I "owned" her. I overestimated your reading comprehension, you're understanding of irony and the like, I'm sorry. I was responding to idiot cosmos who said that my opinions amounted to "thinking I owned her." I said, in essence, so what, what's wrong with thinking you own her, how are the obligations I place on her different from the obligations you place on her? The cosmos idiots didn't answer the question, they just went crazy over the "owned" thing. Liberals and Cosmos both go crazy over words, you can't say that, that's un-PC, without usually ever bothering to define what those words mean. In most of history there were obligations society, society, not government, placed on married people. Could that be seen as "ownership?" Could our system be seen as "ownership?"

[Sevo]

American Is Back| 12.26.12 @ 8:26PM |#
"I was joking when I said I "owned" her."

Yeah, just like you were 'joking; when you posted about people with brown or black or yellow skin tones, and how you were certain that those with white skin tones are somehow superior.
You're a sleazy asshole; that's all.

[American Is Back]

"Yeah, just like you were 'joking; when you posted about people with brown or black or yellow skin tones, and how you were certain that those with white skin tones are somehow superior."
Except I never posted that.

[iggy]

You said 'what's wrong with eugenics?' and subsequently said that we should all want our society to have good genetic stock.

Don't deny this happened. It's what got you deleted the first time.

[American Is Back]

That doesn't involve at all "people with brown or black or yellow skin tones, and how you were certain that those with white skin tones are somehow superior." I stand by those things though. Eugenics is great. We should want our society to have good genetic stock. So what? What's wrong with that? I didn't suggest any government intervention. I think that we should aim as a goal that those on the bottom of society, whatever color they are, not reproduce, at least not more than we do. We can use voluntary methods and culture for that aim. One voluntary charity involved in this work is Project Prevention, which pays drug users to get sterilized. I encourage all who care about our society to give generously.

[American Is Back]

"What's your fucking point? You're not one of those dipshits whose goal is to impose social rules by law, are you?"
No, I'm not. I just oppose cosmo attempts to accuse me and you of being "collectivists" because we "believe in families." Social rules should not be imposed by law. They should be imposed by society. A healthy society should not need laws.

[Res Publica Americana]

If everybody in America suddenly became heterosexual and decided to enter into secure marriages with reliable partners, great. None of my business. But that's also precisely the point. Nobody has the right to dictate to other people how they should live their lives.

Voicing your personal dislike of certain stripes of human conduct? Sure. But insisting that something be done to forcibly impart your conception of righteous customs upon others is criminal.

[iggy]

Bad relationships never happened in the glory days of the early 1900s. You know, back when marital rape was still legal and you could beat your spouse without fear of reprisal.

Fuck off, Merkin.

[American Is Back]

"You're spouse" could get a divorce in most cases at the time. The fact that "marital rape" was legal is incosequencial. There were so few public cases of it that laws against it were not seen as neccesary. Besides, today, with all this crap about "consent" people cold get thrown in prison for life on the whims of "she sounded like she was saying yes," and where people are guilty until proven innocent. Fuck off, cosmatarad.

[nicole]

There were so few public cases of it that laws against it were not seen as neccesary.

I wonder why there were "so few public cases." Perhaps because there was no recourse in a social milieu where it was considered acceptable because your wife was...chattel?

[John]

Contrary to what you see on the Lifetime Movie Network, raping your wife was always considered to be really bad and subject to a whole lot of social approbation. Moreover, most men are not actually rapist, despite what they told you in college. For these reasons, I would imagine there hasn't been a lot of marital rape going on at any time.

[nicole]

Moreover, most men are not actually rapist, despite what they told you in college.

John, have you turned retarded? Give me a break. I am not a moron, but you can be sure that American is. Or did you miss the comment about how it is "biologically impossible" for men to "go on a sex strike" below?

[John]

He is just trolling us. Sorry to be pedantic. But the whole idea that men used to rape their wives until the law made it illegal drives me nuts. It is just bullshit.

[John]

Sorry Nicole. He is trolling us. But you don't think men used to rape their wives do you? No they didn't. Sure some did, but some do now. Their propensity to do it has nothing to do with it being legal or illegal.

[John]

Sorry Nicole. I just don't think many men ever raped their wives. And he is just a resident lefty looking to embarrass the board.

I would respond more, but the damn spam filter keeps not letting me post.

[nicole]

Yes, I should not have responded to the sockpuppet. I have no opinion on how many men raped their wives. I would be surprised if it were widespread, but I was taken in by sockpuppet super-idiocy.

[American Is Back]

Nicole knows nothing about evolution or evolutionary pressure. She probably believes that men and women are identical and that gender is a "social construct."

[nicole]

Yes, men and women are clearly identical. Weirdly, though, when my boyfriend was getting out of the shower tonight I noticed something dangling between his legs that I'm pretty sure?not super sure, of course, since I'm just a lady?does not dangle between mine. He was also kind of flat-chested. And the other night he refused to watch "Clueless" with me! But no, we are identical; I learned that in the same college class where I learned all men are rapists and there are no female libertarians.

[Ted S.]

To be fair, nicole, you have to stop and think about the male sex drive and how much we think about sex. 😉

There's a reason why it's the women who went on the sex strike in Lysistrata.

[nicole]

I'm not really sure what men hope to gain from a sex strike. That may be the least coherent thing in American's posts.

[American Is Back]

I mentioned the biological impossibility of a male sex strike in my post. What would be accomplished would be women who don't fall on their backs for anything that moves and women who are not always whining, always demanding you be "perfect" for them, that you always have to entertain them, the way women are in this society. How about a society where "for better or worse" means something? How about a society where the woman who ruined two different men's lives with divorce isn't idolized as an "independent" hero. How about a society where the welfare of the children come before the "happiness" of the women.

[American Is Back]

Cosmos accept feminist dogma that in everywhere but our great socialist nation where THEY exist, women are treated as property. In fact, in most of the world, things called "love" and "respect" exist. My Indian friend was amazed by the ignorance of feminist-trained "multi-cultural" liberals when it came to her society. They thought that all women were on the level of sex slaves, sold on the streets. In fact, even in the oh so horrible according to the feminazis institution of arranged marriage the mother, as well as the father, had a say in what the arrangement would be.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Contrary to what you see on the Lifetime Movie Network, raping your wife was always considered to be really bad and subject to a whole lot of social approbation.

If that were true, then why did John Stuart Mill feel it necessary to write essays against martial rape? Not that the 19th century was a marital rape-a-palooza, but it there was an awareness of it as a problem in society.

[John]

Mulatto,

For the same reason people today write essays against not paying child support. Just because it happened, doesn't mean it was accepted by society as a good thing.

[Heroic Mulatto]

It didn't need to be seen as a "good thing," it just needed to be viewed with a shrug and a "Eh, I got bigger things to worry about."

[Kyfho Myoba]

Tell your cousin: DO. NOT. BREED. WITH. THIS. WOMAN. Whatever problems he has now, will be multiplied by a hundred if he pro-creates. Tell him to look at his brother and be glad they don't have kids. In fact, if she doesn't think that he's the greatest catch, he should hit the silk now. He had to beg her to marry him. She doesn't love him, and almost certainly never will. Get out now, NOW, and start prospecting.

[Kyfho Myoba]

P.S. I speak from excruciatingly painful experience.

[johnl]

Exactly. The sooner you find out that you have made a mistake, the better. He should cheerfully make plans with her to split the assets and wish her the best.

[iggy]

"Bad (i.e. non-white) schools"

HAHAHAHAHA! How the fuck did I miss that gem in my initial response?

Kill yourself, you racist piece of shit.

[Kyfho Myoba]

Do you honestly think that our government run schools provide equal resources to the schools with predominately white students as to those with predominately black students?

Kill yourself, you stupid piece of shit.

[Generic Stranger]

You might have a point if that's why America believes that non-white schools are bad. Hint: It's not. He believes they're bad BECAUSE they're not white.

America is a vile, racist piece of shit and has displayed that fact here for quite some time.

[John]

Do you honestly think that our government run schools provide equal resources to the schools with predominately white students as to those with predominately black students?

Ah yes they do actually. Inner city minority schools have some of the highest per capita spending in the county. The problem has nothing to do with resources and everything to do with teachers unions, and corrupt inner city governments stealing the money.

[American Is Back]

John is right. Inner city schools spend more. The reason they do so bad is the quality of the people living there. The parents never teach their kids to read, nor do they ever help them with homework. And the kids learn that math is "white" and they stab each other. Peer groups can have enormous influence on people. You don't want your kids role model to be a big, mean, stupid, violent African-American kid.

[John]

No. It has nothing to do with the quality of the people living there. There are tons of hard working nice people in the city and tons of worthless little shits in the burbs. It has everything to do with the poor government.

[sloopyinca]

Goddammit, can somebody clear this up for me: Is American a Mortimer Duke sockpuppet or a Randolph Duke sockpuppet?

[Sevo]

sloopyinca| 12.26.12 @ 8:46PM |#
"Goddammit, can somebody clear this up for me: Is American a Mortimer Duke sockpuppet or a Randolph Duke sockpuppet?"

I can offer this: AIS is a raging asshole racist who, in the manner of blind squirrels, occasionally stumbles on to something:
"John is right. Inner city schools spend more. The reason they do so bad is the quality of the people living there. The parents never teach their kids to read, nor do they ever help them with homework. And the kids learn that math is "white" and they stab each other."

Being 'involved' in inner city schools (K-8), there are many parents who really couldn't give a hoot about what their kids do in school or even if they go to school.
The people making those decisions have been the subject of lengthy training, which training has been funded by YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK!

[American Is Back]

My cousin's wife(different cousin) worked in an inner city school. She once called the mother of one boy who misbehaved who said, flat out to her "that's not my problem." That was sadly typical behavior. The only time someone was at all helpful was one woman who said about her son "he's gonna get a beating for this!"

[American Is Back]

"It has everything to do with the poor government."
Do you really believe that? People aren't responsible for their actions? It's all bad government. John blames government in a similar way as the left blames corporations. A woman I know grew up in Chinatown, LA. It was about half Asian, half Hispanic. She was the child of poor immigrants. She went to the same schools as her Mexican neighbors. She is now a doctor, most of the other Asians are now middle class. Most of the Hispanics are not. Look in most districts, the pattern is there. Blacks, Hispanics, Whites, Asians, Jews, in that order, almost every single time.

[Sevo]

American Is Back| 12.26.12 @ 8:54PM |#
"It has everything to do with the poor government."
Do you really believe that? People aren't responsible for their actions?

The problem you have here is that the government did *exactly* make people responsible for their actions, and the results of those actions are exactly what the government rewarded.
Do you, as a dedicated racist, believe people act against their best interest?

[American Is Back]

The government rewards being poor and dumb, but is it better, even then, to be poor and dumb? Yes, people do act against their best interests. Not everyone is a completely rational Randian hero. People are little more than big brained primates, evolved to fit a world radically different from the one that we now reside. Else you would never see smoking, obesity, or the lottery.

[Generic Stranger]

See what I mean, Kyfho?

Merkin is nothing but a racist fuckbucket, who should do the rest of us a favor and suckstart a shotgun.

[Heroic Mulatto]

See what I mean, Kyfho?

Merkin is nothing but a racist fuckbucket, who should do the rest of us a favor and suckstart a shotgun.

Psst, Generic, want to have some fun? Ask Kyfho what he thinks about the JOOZ. You'll get double points if he starts with black-market organ thefts from Palestinian orphans.

[Generic Stranger]

Psst, Generic, want to have some fun? Ask Kyfho what he thinks about the JOOZ. You'll get double points if he starts with black-market organ thefts from Palestinian orphans.

Ah, that would explain him jumping to defend Merkin. I figured it was just because he was ignorant of Merkin's history, but now I realize it was actually malice.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I think we need to move the discussion the true topic of import here; that is, what's up with Merkin's (fictional?) cousin? It is obvious that the dude has no game whatsoever. Put me in a room with his wife and with a little Charles Bradley on the radio, my famous roast chicken paired with the perfect wine, and in a few hours that woman would be more fertile than the Octomom.

Jus' sayin'

[nicole]

Whew, HM, good thing I'm on the pill.

[Heroic Mulatto]

If and when you want to make babies, I can give your man the recipe. It uses hoisin sauce.

[nicole]

Oooh. And I thought his roast chicken was already good...shit, yo.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Basically, you take a roaster, rub the inside cavity with salt, pepper, and Chinese 5-spice powder. Then place a leek inside the bird. Rub the outside with hoisin sauce mixed with a pinch of salt and some soy sauce. Then you place it breast-up in a roasting pan and roast at around 375. To make the skin crispy you want the temperature to be a bit higher for the first and last 10 minutes.

[nicole]

Sounds delish. Thanks!

[sloopyinca]

"place it breast-up"

According to 2-Live Crew, that's wrong.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Wrong kind of "chickens" my man....

[Heroic Mulatto]

Watching the video, I noticed something strange about the audience, so I clicked through...

2-Live Crew performing "Face down ass up" on the Phil Donahue show in 1990.

That happened.

[sloopyinca]

Awesome.

[nicole]

That is pure awesome. I didn't think I could love 2-Live Crew more.

[sloopyinca]

Didn't the Octomom do in vitro fertilization because she had trouble with fertility?

Just sayin'

[Heroic Mulatto]

She wasted her money. The HM Method is proven. 10s of Thai women cannot be wrong!

[American Is Back]

"It is obvious that the dude has no game whatsoever."
Not really. I'm not an expert on this but in my experience the only workable definition of someone who lacks "game" is an internet libertarian.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

I'm guessing American Is Back likes to watch video of his wife being dp'd by two big, mean, stupid, violent African- Americans, though. Amirite? You twisted little pervert.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Why is it always race with you? You make some valid observations about the culture of self-perpetuating poverty and then jump off the deep end with some ignorant racist shit.

Case in point, not including immigrants, who's first language is not English, the lowest rates of literacy are found in the school districts of rural Appalachia. There was a famous study about this that came out in 2002-ish...I'm trying to remember the title, can anyone help me out?

[sloopyinca]

There was a famous study about this that came out in 2002-ish...I'm trying to remember the title, can anyone help me out?

Was it the NAAL (Natl Assessment of Adult Literacy)performed by the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES). I think this is a link to it.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Hmmm...the study I'm thinking of covered kids, not adults.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Ah...here it is...Other People's Words by Victoria Purcell-Gates.

[American Is Back]

It's not always race. I wouldn't send my kids to an Appalachian school either. My original post was about culture, with one word about race. Now, culture and race are correlated highly. Any evaluation of culture must account for race, because it will be racist according to liberal-cosmo doctrines. If you point out that parents not reading to their children is a problem, liberals will point out that you are really talking about blacks, then start talking about how "we will overcome" or something. In the specific part of California, most of the poor are non-white.

[American Is Back]

My cousins and I aren't the only ones who don't want to send our kids to non-white schools. All the so-called "liberals," and "respectable" libertarians and conservatives believe that too, even if it's subconscious. People don't pay thousand dollar a month mortgages for nothing. Whether a school is a "good" school or a "bad" school is often the prime cause of the difference in property values. Of course no one tells you why the schools are "good" or "bad," at least until NCLB(which really helped in communities which didn't release race or income data). You just KNOW.

[sloopyinca]

All the so-called "liberals," and "respectable" libertarians and conservatives believe that too, even if it's subconscious.

Die in a fire, troll.

Actually, I don't want to send my child to non-white schools...or white schools if either are run by the government. So technically you've got me on this one, although for the wrong reason.

[juris imprudent]

...believe that too, even if it's subconscious.

Ah, the dipshit has to rationalize his own indecency by imputing it to everyone else. Nice.

[American Is Back]

So if you were told your little baby was going to a majority black-school, would you say "good, I love diversity?"

[Hyperion]

My advice to any young men growing up in our current society.

DO NOT FUCKING GET MARRIED, get anyone pregnant, or allow anyone else to live in your house. Get what you want and send them on their way in the morning.

Ok, I just gave you the key to a happy life, you ignore that advice at your own peril. Don't say I didn't warn you.

And yes, I am happily married. It's hard to take your own advice, even when you know that you are right.

[American Is Back]

In my ideal world men would simply go on a sex strike. But as that is biologically impossible, we must make do with alternatives. One is to make it much harder to be a single mother. End welfare and reduce child support to the bare minimum. Another, arguably more important, thing to do is to resurrect societal shame at being a slut. Yes I said the dirty word, shame. Liberals love "self-esteem" because it allows you to do anything and still be respected. Cosmos may call me "collectivist" for suggesting this and denying people their "choice." To that I say that if I'm a collectivist for wanting a better society, then so be it. These people's "choices" affect others.

[Kyfho Myoba]

Better yet, eliminate child support if the child was born out of wedlock. The old metaphor of the man is the gas pedal and the woman the brakes, has got to have some teeth.

[John]

I actually like that idea. In this day and age with widely available birth control and access to abortion, why should the man have to support a child the woman chose to conceive and bring to term? I would actually support publicly funding abortions in return for that concession.

[American Is Back]

I could support that. It's not very popular even with libertarians, if it's not the father paying, it's most likely going to be rich, family men like me that will have to pay for some other man to have sex. At the same time, it seems that women are much more affected by the thought of future consequences then men are. It's the woman who is, evolutionary speaking, the one who makes the disision of whether to reproduce. My suggestion is to simply take the children of the welfare dependent away and raise them in government orphanages. No child deserves to starve in this country, but the parents should not be supported. To have a baby taken away from you would be very damaging psychologically to a new mother, enough to convince her to keep her legs closed.

[sloopyinca]

, it's most likely going to be rich, family men like me that will have to pay for some other man to have sex.

Somehow, I'm pretty sure you're an expert on the subject of paying for sex.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

... it's most likely going to be rich, family men like me that will have to pay for some other man to have sex.

I'm guessing you pay big, mean, violent, stupid African-Americans to have sex with your wife. While you videotape it. You little pervert.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You might be on to something there, EDG. Most husbands in the "cuckold fetish" lifestyle are frothing-at-the-mouth racists outside of the bedroom.

[Sevo]

American Is Back| 12.26.12 @ 8:47PM |#
..."it's most likely going to be rich, family men like me that will have to pay for some other man to have sex."...

Claim: "rich".
Support: prove $1Bn or STFU. OK, how about, say $5m.

Claim: "men like me that will have to pay for some other man to have sex"
Support: prove men "like you" will have to do so.
And I'll be kind and not post what the claim suggests.

[American Is Back]

I'm not one of those people who thinks that, as a certain politician suggested, 5m is "rich." I am not that wealthy, I just make a lot more than most middle class Americans, and they consider me "rich." So be it. Labels, names, are not particularly important to me. And what the claim suggests is that when men like me have sex, we don't leave the rest of society to deal with the consequences.

[Sevo]

American Is Back| 12.26.12 @ 10:59PM |#
..."Labels, names, are not particularly important to me."...

Really?
"it's most likely going to be rich, family men like me"
"You don't want your kids role model to be a big, mean, stupid, violent African-American kid."
Labels and names seem to be the core of your posts.
I have to admit you've made an occasional post that *isn't* out-right racist, so there might be some validity to your comments. But it probably means you should look over your posts with a critical eye and weed out those obvious racist comments.
Not because you'd like support here, but just because the effort may give you good reason to change your mind.

[American Is Back]

It's not the labels that are important, it's what they are describing. I may be described, alterantivly, as "middle class," "upper middle class," "upper class," or "rich." But I am definently a financially well off but I do not have governmental power or massive investment income. Call it what you want, it is significant in that I pay a large amount of taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, car taxes, and the like, and I am the one paying for the welfare of the poor.

[Sevo]

Hyperion| 12.26.12 @ 8:02PM |#
"My advice to any young men growing up in our current society.
DO NOT FUCKING GET MARRIED, get anyone pregnant, or allow anyone else to live in your house. Get what you want and send them on their way in the morning."

My advice is to consider marriage to be a very serious, long term contractual arrangement.
Money, politics and 'religious' bleefs constitute some of the most important issues that will be discussed and will need some form of agreement or compromise. Make sure spouse and you share views or the ability to disagree on those issues without explosions.
Minds have been changed on issues both ways in the Sevo marriage. And I am glad I'm married.

[Hyperion]

I don't think that most young men are capable of making the call, Sev, seriously. I sure as fuck wasn't. It took me 50 years to find a woman who was actually worth marrying. 2nd time, I got it right, and I sure as hell did not rush into it.

So, if I would change my advice at all, I would wish for young men to have the wisdom of one who has lived well beyond their own years. Not many are capable of that. Wrong body part doin the thinkin.

My wife is from an old traditional family set in traditional family values, and that is rare to find these days. I had to find it outside of our own culture.

Your average American woman today is totally void of any morals or values whatsoever that would make her a decent wife. Sorry if I sound like a sexist pig, I'm not, and I really don't give a fuck what anyone thinks any more, I am too old for that shit.

[Sevo]

OK, gonna deal with parts:
"I don't think that most young men are capable of making the call,"
I wasn't. And I was amazed at the number of friends who did. And then was amazed at the number who made it work. Guess they had a better handle on it than did I.

"Sev, seriously. I sure as fuck wasn't. It took me 50 years to find a woman who was actually worth marrying. 2nd time, I got it right, and I sure as hell did not rush into it."
Took me that long to meet someone who was willing to marry me and to whom I was willing to marry. Pretty sure we both made a good choice, but hey...

"Your average American woman today is totally void of any morals or values whatsoever that would make her a decent wife."
You BET! Ms Sevo is in no way a candidate for any traditional role. Hell, for the last 10 years of our working lives, she made more income than I did. Now it's the other way,

[Hyperion]

I am a little worried about my son right now, because at the young age of 30, he thinks he may have met the right woman. I am very skeptical.

[T o n y]

How is it that women have been corrupted more than men? And after all those centuries of men keeping their eye on them!

[American Is Back]

The problem is that women have been taught that it is normal to lie on their backs for any guy who has "cute abs." Men participate in that too, but convincing them to stop would be evolutionary nearly impossible. It's the women and the children who will suffer the consequences, who will need the welfare. They are devastated emotionally by our society. Women weren't meant to be childless whores, and it's bad for them as well as the rest of society.

[juris imprudent]

Fuck, it's trolls all the way down.

[Hyperion]

Fuck you, Tony. Aren't you gay? You can't make this call. Men and women are very different. Stick to your own league, you are no judge for us heteroes, you are playing in the other league, so STFU.

[VG Zaytsev]

I wonder what the cosmos think about problems like this, if they think they are problems at all.

They think you should spend more time on match.com and less time on stormfront.

[American Is Back]

I thought you opposed immigration....

[The Late P Brooks]

There are 160,000,000 quiet and normal law abiding American's who support Mr. Morgan.

They'll be ridiculously easy to round up.

[Hyperion]

They should be, since they all live in the same 300 residences that resides anyone who has ever even heard of Piers Morgan.

[The Late P Brooks]

American culture...

tl;dr

[John]

There are thousands of Americans rotting in prison because of the draconian nature of federal gun laws. But anyone who actually expects David Gregory to be prosecuted for violating said gun laws on national TV is just an obsessed winger.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/.....52814.html

And if your parents named you "Dylan", they were probably douchebags and you should change your name.

[Caleb Turberville]

David Gregory is going to have to share with us the secret of how he managed to possess a high-capacity magazine without killing mass numbers of people.

[SweatingGin]

"will not host this Sunday's 'Meet The Press'"

They're probably just worried he'll make a straw purchase this weekend.

[John]

And for the love of God, "American" is one of our resident leftwing trolls sock puppeting. The idea is to post the most obviously racist and offensive shit in the hopes that it goes unchallenged, or better yet gets someone to agree with it so they can then treat the thread as evidence that Libertarians are really racists. Stop responding to it except to say fuck off.

[Mad Scientist]

American is Mary. This is just another of her deranged personalities.

[John]

More than likely, yes. But the strategy is the same. Post stupid shit in hopes of slandering the board with it.

[Mad Scientist]

That's been her MO all along, yes. Anything to get people worked up.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

This persona is so un-Mary, though. It writes coherently. Of course, it does exhibit some of the same obsessive qualities of past personas.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I'm thinking it's Slappy! or one of his kith.

[Mad Scientist]

It's her. She always started out semi-coherent before devolving into full bore stupidity.

[American Is Back]

Cosmos are so used to it only being them and the left, they don't realize that there are millions of hard working people who have alternate viewpoints. We believe in traditional families. We believe in living in the first world. We are Americans

[waaminn]

Dude is making all kinds of crazy sense over there. WOw.

http://www.Privacy-OT.tk

[sloopyinca]

OT, but this thread needs it: I just updated my list of movies I own on DVD and Blu-Ray since I recently bought a few. I now have 658 plus several TV series (but still don't have Hogan's Heroes). Now if only they'd lower the fucking price on ST:TNG to a reasonable level.

[Sevo]

Sloopy,
Get back to work! You got a kid that needs pretty serious attention and a wife who probably needs a bit of concern also.
You can goof off on movies later; back to work, dammit!

[nicole]

Yeah, 18 years later!

[Heroic Mulatto]

Eh. At six my daughter was ready to sit down and watch Ep. IV.

She prefers Luke to Han Solo, which is what a dad wants to hear.

[sloopyinca]

I hate CPS agencies and the power they wield, but I would be OK with them asking kids who their favorite Star Wars character was to see if their parents are fit.

If they answer Anybody from Ep.'s I-III, they are remanded to the state. If they answer Greedo they are remanded to the state. If they answer C3PO, they are remanded to the state and put in a hospital for a mental health evaluation. If they answer Jar Jar Binks, their parents are arrested and sent to prison without trial.

[nicole]

You need a harsher punishment for choosing a Hayden Christiansen?played character.

[sloopyinca]

The most accurate portrayal of Hayden Christiansen's acting ability ever.*

*And as a bonus a great LOTR analysis.

[nicole]

which is what a dad wants to hear

You mean because Mark Hamill is way less hot and more nonthreatening than Harrison Ford? Oh, Han, I still swoon over you...and I've been watching the movies since about that age myself.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You mean because Mark Hamill is way less hot and more nonthreatening than Harrison Ford?

Of course!

[nicole]

That's fair then.

[sloopyinca]

Pshaw! I was on baby detail all day and she didn't cry much at all. Now Banjos has got her and she's bawling.

[Mad Scientist]

Banjos is the anti-Reason!

[sloopyinca]

Not sure how this subthread is gonna go over if the wife gets a chance to go online tonight.

[AlmightyJB]

Unless you have Moobs the baby's not going to cry at you when she's hungry.

[sloopyinca]

Not at 24 days. She can't see titties yet. Besides, they wouldn't let Banjos nurse while they were getting Little Reason eating. That baby don't know a titty from a water balloon. But she knows her daddy is always on the spot with a rocking chair and a bottle full of milk.

[AlmightyJB]

Awesome. I loved rocking our girls when they were babies. A great stress reliever. When they were learning to drive. Not so much stress relief.

[Groovus Maximus]

WHAT?! Sloop! This is not good! Baby Reason needs colostrum for her developing immunity! Where is the breast pump?! I was under the impression that Baby Reason was being fed by Banjos via NG.

I will be checking on this!

[AlmightyJB]

I'm glad to see that registration has worked so well.

[sloopyinca]

I think I've figured out what Reason (the magazine) has been up to. They wanted a case study on why registrations don't work so they could show it to the gun grabbers if it was ever needed. The plan was genius, really.

[AlmightyJB]

I can't believe I didn't figure that out myself. That is genius.

[Groovus Maximus]

Well, it works better than it did, JB. You don't see those awful 2000+ comment clusterfucks anymore, and I for one hated them.

Not to mention that the "There's a baby named Reason" post that was cleaned up of trollage. I have it on good authority that Alissi spends a good deal of his time fending off troll waves and those that would do our little corner of the Intertoobz ill will and thread-shitting.

[Hyperion]

I think that our resident trolls are outcasts from their tribe who were not insane enough to post at Politico.

[AlmightyJB]

What about HuffPo. Hell, our trolls could be contributors there. I can't be on that site more than five minutes without starting to feel like I'm in some sort of asylum.

[AlmightyJB]

OT: Building the Death Star. Being how this was in National Review Online, I actually had to RTFA to figure out what should have been obvious by the title. That he's joking.

http://www.nationalreview.com/.....el-foster#

[Fatty Bolger]

"We choose to build a Death Star. We choose to build a Death Star in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too. Plus I'm getting bored with drones. It's time for something with a little more firepower that I can play with in my third or fourth term." - Barack Obama

[A Serious Man]

"Fear will keep the states in line. Fear of this battle station!"

[Archduke Pantsfan]

The more you tighten your grip, Obama, the more congressional districts will slip through your fingers.

[Groovus Maximus]

We've analyzed their battle plans and it appears there's a small risk, Archduchy. Shall I have your engine block warming?

Also, Morning Archduchy! Happy Boxing Day (just barely)!

[Archduke Pantsfan]

My car is at the shop, so it needs no plugging in this evening.

[Groovus Maximus]

That sounded...awkward. I knew Manitobans were friendly, but not that friendly.-)

[Archduke Pantsfan]

There's a problem with the electrical system.
Plugging in it had no effect.

[Groovus Maximus]

Fine, fine. Sorry to hear. It's not like you were going anywhere anyway. Boxing Day is an unwise day to be on the road anyway, from what I understand.