Should Ann Romney Have Skipped the Part About Early Struggles with Mitt? Yes - and the Rest of it Too.

Fox News commentator Juan Williams has been taking it on the chin from Republicans and conservatives for criticizing Ann Romney's speech at the RNC. Williams audaciously suggested that Mrs. Romney looked like a "corporate wife" whose story of young struggle wouldn't resonate with those of us not born into money (Ann's father was rich and so was Mitt's).

Ask the folks at Twitchy, a right-wing Twitter aggregator put together by Michelle Malkin, "How did [Williams] use that airtime to display his renowned "real reporter" skills? By engaging in the very misogynist rhetoric that Obama operatives have hurled at Ann Romney." My favorite tweet in the thread they compiled is this one: "Juan Williams…..you and [Five co-host Bob] Beckel will be the reason I cancel FOX….Bastards."

I didn't think that Williams' comment was misogynistic, or inaccurate for that matter. Look, if you're born into wealth and stay wealthy your whole life, the one thing you can't lay claim to is being poor. Even in America, there are some things that money can't buy. And one of them is an impoverished past.

But here's Mrs. Romney's reminiscence:

There were many reasons to delay marriage, and you know? We just didn't care. We got married and moved into a basement apartment. We walked to class together, shared the housekeeping, and ate a lot of pasta and tuna fish. Our desk was a door propped up on sawhorses. Our dining room table was a fold-down ironing board in the kitchen. Those were very special days.

Then our first son came along. All at once I'm 22 years old, with a baby and a husband who's going to business school and law school at the same time, and I can tell you, probably like every other girl who finds herself in a new life far from family and friends, with a new baby and a new husband, that it dawned on me that I had absolutely no idea what I was getting into.

This would be a banal Love Story sort of memory at best, but the fact that Ann and Mitt were both rich kids and only one of them was going to college at that time even queers that deal. Williams' point was basically that Ann Romney's invocation of struggle really comes across as phoney.

Here's a fuller explanation by him:

The wonderful reality is that both Ann and Mitt are scions of wealthy families. They were born to lives of privilege -- she, the daughter of a wealthy industrialist and he, the son of an automobile company CEO and governor of Michigan.

They may have started out in a small apartment but she was married[to] a young man studying for a Harvard business and law degree. Their parents could afford to send them to elite universities like Stanford and Harvard without needing scholarships or financial aid. And then her talented husband had monumental success in the corporate world.

It does not make sense to me to talk about that couple having struggles similar to most Americans. They never had to live with economic fear of being laid off from a job or losing their health insurance.

More here.

I'm on record as saying my favorite political spouse is Judith Steinberg Dean, married to former Gov. Howard (D-Vt.). Dr. Dean (she's an M.D. too) refused to play the anointed role of wife or husband who "humanizes" her counterpart and she refused to participate in a gross form of political spectacle with roots in aristocratic court culture.

Would there were more like her. And fewer bits like the old Al-Tipper Gore Kiss (shiver) or the whole spectacle of fake happy Kennedy clan marriages that somehow prove that the land will be fertile and the harvest strong. Look, maybe only 40 percent of Americans believe in evolution, but we're not so primitive or atavistic as to think that the personal life of a political leader (male or female) has any connection to the health of the body politic.

Comments

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Look, if you're born into wealthy and stay wealthy you're whole life, the one thing you can't lay claim to is being poor.

True enough, I guess. WTF does that have to do with the Romneys?

[wareagle]

it's the obligatory "we have both teams and will resort to even foolishness to prove it" type article. Jesus on a biscuit. No one at Reason liked Ann speech or Christie's, just like no one will like Ryan's or Romney's. And presumably, no one will like anything from teh DNC, either, in a show of fairness.

Good goddamn, this we're-the-coolest-kids-on-the-block shit gets old at times.

[RBS]

For the rest of the republican convention and the entire democrat convention they should just post the videos of the speeches and leave it to the commentariat to discuss them.

[Enough About Palin]

That is a very good idea.

[wareagle]

so as a bonus, people will not just comment on the words, but they will also infer the tone in which those words were delivered and level of passion that was presumably displayed.

[RBS]

My hope is that nobody comments at all and the posts get buried under other posts of interest to libertarians.

[Zeb]

Yeah, or maybe they are just commenting on the major news of the day and high profile commentators.

You know what gets even older than "we're-the-coolest-kids-on-the-block"? People getting all annoyed about their perceptions about Reason bloggers motivations for writing about what they choose to write about. Give it a fucking rest. Hurr Durr Cocktail parties derp.

[Paleo-ConAvenger]

Well, actually Mitt had to work for his money...

Not defending anyone, just saying he worked his way up the business ladder.

[Laird]

Not even "true enough". Just because the parents have money doesn't mean they simply give it to the kids. I presume that Romney's parents paid for his college education. So what? Most parents do. Yes, they could afford Harvard, which is something of an advantage, but it's not an overwhelming one. It sounds like they went through the whole "struggling youth" thing that most of us did. Good for them. That resonates with a lot of people, and properly so. The Romneys clearly made it on their own, and that deserves credit, not snarky abuse. This essay is completely off base.

[John]

So Nick,

Rich people never struggle? If you are a scion of a rich family, you never have to get out of bed in the morning or face any of the same challenges in life everyone else does?

Jesus tap dancing Christ, are you kidding me? Who the fuck are you to sit here and claim someone else's life was easy or not? And since when do libertarians claim to have a corner on who can and cannot claim to have struggled? The idea that no one who was ever born rich has a right to claim to have overcome any obstacles sounds like leftist class war bullshit to me.

You know what comes across increasingly as phony? You Nick. What are you auditioning for that new job at the New Republic?

[Enough About Palin]

As stated earlier today The poor are better off than the rich because the poor can't comfort themselves with the belief that all their troubles would vanish if only they had money.

[John]

This is one of the dumbest things Reason have ever published. The women has MS. You couldn't give me that disease for any amount of money. I know lots of people who can buy and sell me ten times over and not all of them are happy.

Is it really news to Nick that happiness doesn't have a linear relationship to wealth?

[RBS]

Nick has been extra bitchy lately and his bitchiness has been to directed at some pretty absurd things, like Lance Armstrong last week.

[Proprietist]

Dude - seriously? Billionaires born into billionaire households making sob stories about their purported poverty ("living in a small apartment") so they look more personable to the struggles of working class Bob?

I have no problem whatsoever with billionaires or the children of such. But they should stop pretending to be something they never were for political gain. The argument that the Romneys were ever in fiscal dire straits is a straight up lie. They should instead speak of their pride that Americans allows the opportunity to build great wealth, provide for their descendents and employ thousands of people.

And your MS argument is a red herring that has nothing to do with the fact that Ann was likely being fast and loose with the facts.

[John]

that Ann was likely being fast and loose with the facts.

How do you know that? You don't. you just assume it is because she is rich. She is rich so she had to be lying. That is class war bullshit.

[The Hammer]

Ok John, you're a Republican. We get it. You don't have to white knight for every statist fuck who steps up to the microphone at the convention, or clutch your pearls every time someone one of us dares to criticize one of our betters.

[Proprietist]

You seriously believe the implication that Mitt and Ann Romney couldn't afford a proper table and desk and were living down in the basement flat out of fiscal hardship? I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I'm not going to take a politician's wife's word for it at face value in the middle of a speech explicitly designed to make Mitt look personable just because she says so.

[The Hammer]

She wasn't talking about MS, she was crying about being poor when she was demonstrably not poor by any stretch of the imagination. It comes across as disingenuous, at best.

[MWG]

I think I can see both sides to this. On the one hand, no matter how poor they lived, the fact of the matter is a family 'safety net' would most likely have been there to help them if paying the bills really got tough.

On the other hand I don't think it's a good idea to assume as Williams does that children born into wealthy families have everything handed to them on a silver platter. I know enough wealthy people and children of wealthy people (including mormons who are a culture unto themselves) to know that ain't the case. In fact, in many cases, it's often the opposite.

"I busted my balls to get where I am, why shouldn't you?"

[John]

You can only see both sides if you actually know the person involved. I don't know the Romneys and neither does Nick. Maybe they were rich, worthless trust fund babies. But Nick has no idea. He just assumes that because they were rich everything was easy.

[MWG]

Seriously!? Appearantly we're not allowed to question the stories told by our political overloads even if the known fact (they both came from wealthy families) might suggest the story is exaggerated.

[wareagle]

usually, stories are questions on the basis of evidence, not because the writer has a hard-on for the speaker. If Nick has evidence that Ann is lying, then lay it out. Otherwise, it reads like a screen one typically expects to find in The Nation.

[wareagle]

ahem -- "stories are questionED..."

[MWG]

The evidence is that both came from rich families. Struggling to 'make ends meet' while you're a stay at home mom and you're husband is working on a dual degree at Harvard is not the same thing as being impoverished.

[John]

She never claimed it was. She just said it sucked. And it probably did.

[CampingInYourPark]

Actually, she didn't say it sucked:

"We were very young. Both still in college. There were many reasons to delay marriage, and you know? We just didn't care. We got married and moved into a basement apartment. We walked to class together, shared the housekeeping, and ate a lot of pasta and tuna fish. Our desk was a door propped up on sawhorses. Our dining room table was a fold down ironing board in the kitchen. Those were very special days."

And the last statement wasn't made sarcastically.

[wareagle]

And the last statement wasn't made sarcastically.

which makes Nick's bitchiness even bitchier. I look back to my own early adults days with some fondness at how little shit was kinda cool and some pride for having moved far beyond those days. Fact is, most of us have a sawhorse type story we can laugh about.

My entertainment center was 2x4's and concrete blocks; in a 400 sq ft college apt, that was cool. Doesn't mean I want to live like that again, but doesn't mean I look back with loathing.

[Fluffy]

which makes Nick's bitchiness even bitchier.

Ack! No. That's the most maudlin line at all.

[Adam330]

Plenty of wealthy families make their kids go out and make it on their own. Plenty don't. I really have no idea which type the Romneys came from, and I suspect you don't either.

[rac]

Didn't any of you MFers ever listen to the lyrics of Richard Corey. He put a bullet in his head man.

[Enough About Palin]

It's actually a true story IIRC.

[CampingInYourPark]

"On the one hand, no matter how poor they lived, the fact of the matter is a family 'safety net' would most likely have been there to help them if paying the bills really got tough."

Sort of like every American except us poor people have gov't. and the Romneys had parents

[MWG]

Meh. Maybe, but probably not so much when the Romneys were in their early twenties.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

On the other hand I don't think it's a good idea to assume as Williams does that children born into wealthy families have everything handed to them on a silver platter. I know enough wealthy people and children of wealthy people (including mormons who are a culture unto themselves) to know that ain't the case. In fact, in many cases, it's often the opposite.

Here's the thing about wealthy people--the scion might be the money trailblazer, but it's shockingly easy for his descendants to piss that legacy away, sometimes within a generation if they're allowed to be nothing but trust fund leeches. If they want to remain wealthy, they usually have to work in some fashion to maintain their lifestyle, even in ways that most people would consider ridiculously frivolous. Hate on Paris Hilton and the Kardashians all you want--I certainly do-- but they are quite adept at hustling the media in a way that keeps the bucks rolling in. Whether they can keep that going is another question.

All that said, it is somewhat disingenuous for Ann Romney to pander to the lunch-bucket crowd. The last thing she should do is apologize for being the wife and daughter of intelligent, financially successful people; playing that game just validates the left's covetousness fetish.

[Fluffy]

I can easily trump your outrage by the simple observation that the entire "struggle" iconography is bullshit in the first place.

The real reason this is lame is because their response to the accusation that they haven't struggled enough isn't, "Guess what? Fuck you!" but instead a contrived "Nuh-uh, we suffered! Look! Look how much we suffered!"

[John]

I agree that that would be a better response. But they really can't politically do that. You know as well as I do, if she had gotten up and said "sure life was easy when I was young, but what do you want me to do about it?" the media, Nick included, would have killed her for being an out of touch rich bitch.

[John]

And again fluffy, how do you know anything she said was untrue? If it is true, what she can't talk about it in response to the charge that she has no idea how average people live?

[Tonio]

Sure, rich people struggle and suffer, John, but guess what? Diseases like MS are a lot easier to take if you have money, and all that can buy.

[CampingInYourPark]

"Diseases like MS are a lot easier to take if you have money"

This is the most stupid fucking statement I've ever read in any forum written in any media.

[The Hammer]

Seriously? You don't think being wealthy, being able to afford physical therapy, treatments, drugs and anything else to make your life better makes MS easier to deal with?

[sailshonan]

Holland Michigan hot dog boy and his parents would agree...

[John]

So fucking what? I still wouldn't trade my health for money.

[Mongo]

Amen.

Being free and healthy in mind body - that's all you need in life.

[Mongo]

Fix your fuckin ampersand-thingy!

[T o n y]

The problem as I see it is that Romney's policies are to give himself a tax break at the expense of people who actually do struggle. Plus, nobody's gonna buy that the Romney's really struggled. She had MS. That's sad. Good thing she had unlimited resources at her disposal. Lots of poor people get MS too.

[Charlotte Falcon]

Shut up you jealous douche bag.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I demand more class warfare. MORE.

[JW]

I have a hunch that your wish will be granted.

SOON.

[RBS]

Really Nick? Explain to me why I, as a libertarian, should give a shit?

[John]

Nothing says Libertarian like resenting the rich.

[MWG]

Where did you get that from Nick commentary?

[John]

When he says this

This would be a banal Love Story sort of memory at best, but the fact that Ann and Mitt were both rich kids and only one of them was going to college at that time even queers that deal.

How does he know she is lying? Why does the fact they are rich queer the deal? He is basically saying she has no right to talk about her youth in anything but rosy and privileged terms because she was rich. That sounds pretty resentful to me.

[MWG]

I don't thing that suggests resentment... maybe just a little bit of cynicism. This is Reason after all.

[wareagle]

there comes a point where cynicism, which can be relentless here, becomes tedious. It's like the kids who pretend not to give a shit about anything but go out of their way to attract any attention they can.

[MWG]

You might have a point if the person questioning the cynicism (John in this case) did so in a bi-partisan manner.

[Cytotoxic]

^THIS^ Please save this quote. It is perfect for the Axis of Gliberty types and other 'edgy, cool' Reasoners.

[Cytotoxic]

That was meant for wareagle.

[wareagle]

what is the save quote? Sorry, getting lost in the back and forth.

[Cytotoxic]

Save quote: there comes a point where cynicism, which can be relentless here, becomes tedious. It's like the kids who pretend not to give a shit about anything but go out of their way to attract any attention they can.

[MWG]

Great, so I guess we can expect the same from you, WE and John the next time Reason writes and 'petty' article about the Obama's.

I won't hold my breath.

[wareagle]

petty is petty, and I've posted above that I fully expect to see full petty with regard to the DNC Convention. I'll pre-post my objection now as that article will be just as bullshit as this one.

[MWG]

"I'll pre-post my objection now as that article will be just as bullshit as this one."

Ok, I'll give you credit, that was pretty.

[Tonio]

[looks over to MWG, winks and gives thumbs-up]

[Proprietist]

Maybe it becomes tedious for Romney fanboys, but eff them anyways.

[John]

No one is a Romeny fanboy Proprietist. And you know it. No one likes Romeny on here.

But because no one likes the guy, doesn't mean every one should go full retard and make stupid petty arguments against him. There is a million reasons to hate Romney. But this isn't one of them. In fact, making this argument just makes Reason look like brain dead lefties who want to smoke pot. And claiming anyone who objects to said bullshit is just a Romney fan boy, makes Reason look even more retarded. Like Tony Retarded.

[Proprietist]

Misrepresenting who you are because who you are isn't politically popular is worthy of derision.

[Joe M]

I don't think Nick is saying she's lying, just that she's over-hyping the details significantly to make it sound tougher than it was. It could be they got a "basement apartment" because of its location. They were old school pedestrian hipsters.

[MWG]

This.^

The overwhelming point I got from the article is that such stories (whether they're exaggerated or not) do nothing to better the country's politics.

See Nick's last paragraph.

[Kwanzaa Cake]

Stipulated, but so the fuck what? Just as the Romneys are out pretending to have experienced middle class life, the Obamas (net worth of about $10 million) will continue to pose as everyday Americans who can understand those who have to scrape together the $$ to pay the electric bill. It's politics. I don't get why it is worth paying attention to. Out here in the real world the country has some massive problems and maybe we should be asking who is more likely to fix them than, who is slinging the most BS about their socio-economic status?

[hotsy totsy]

Yup

[Adam330]

They better not think they are goign to out "everyday American" raised by a single mother Obama and joe-six pack from Scranton PA Biden.

[MWG]

And in both cases, KC, it's Barf inducing.

[John]

+1000 Kwanzaa Cake.

[Charlotte Falcon]

It's worse than that with the Obamas. They've never accomplished a g-d thing. They have walked into their cushy lives due to patronage and liberal guilt. That's fine, but the fact that they also want to re-make the world to conform to their own naive vision of what is justice just pisses me off. If there was any justice, they would walk away from their current positions and just say "sorry we don't deserve this."

[CampingInYourPark]

"Look, if you're born into wealth and stay wealthy your whole life, the one thing you can't lay claim to is being poor."

I don't recall she even claimed to be poor. She described a portion of her life that relates that they didn't live in a palace with a moat between themselves and the serfs. She is addressing detractors that claim they can't possibly know the concerns of people with no money.

[John]

What Camping Said.

[Adam330]

Interestingly, the detractors don't think this is an issue for FDR, JFK, RFK, Teddy K, John Kerry, Jay Rockefeller, etc.

[darius404]

I don't recall she even claimed to be poor.

When she says stuff like this:

Our desk was a door propped up on sawhorses. Our dining room table was a fold-down ironing board in the kitchen.

there is an implicit claim that they were poor. Which as Nick says, is total bullshit. Fuck, my family was poorer than Romney ever was, and WE had real furniture. This sounds phony as hell.

[John]

How do you know Darious? Again, she is rich, so she must be lying. No class war bullshit there.

[darius404]

How do you know Darious? Again, she is rich, so she must be lying. No class war bullshit there.

Oh my God, John, you really have gone full retard. If you can't look at claims that they used doors and ironing boards for tables and desks, and not infer "they were poor" you're stupider than T o n y.

[Adam330]

I think her claim is that they lived frugally, like average americans, because they didn't have a lot of money at that time in their lives. How do you know it's not true? Do you have some evidence that his or her parents were giving them money at that time? Or that they had some other source of lots of income/wealth? My parents were/are pretty well off (certainly not Romney level), but they didn't give me money during college or law school, so I lived a pretty frugal lifestyle. It's really not hard to believe that they lived that way.

[darius404]

It's really not hard to believe that they lived that way.

When did I ever claim they didn't? I said it sounded fakey. The whole damn thing was trying to send the message "we know what you've gone through, we've been down and out too". It comes across as the bullshit it is from people who are rich now, and had rich families backing them up then. When Mommy and Daddy can swoop in and save you from your furniture-less life of waiting for your husband to graduate from business school and law school, and then years later you try to use that to say "see, we've been poor too", it will ALWAYS come across as poorly written pandering bullshit.

[nobody]

Hey John,

If SugarFree had linked to some Brooklyn hipster's Tumblr that said "Our desk was a door propped up on sawhorses. Our dining room table was a fold-down ironing board in the kitchen." you'd be the first person here complaining your ass off and you'd claim that they were phony and that their suffering wasn't real.

[RBS]

Intentionally living in poverty is a little different.

[John]

As I said above, You can only see both sides if you actually know the person involved. If you have evidence that shows the Romneys were a couple of hipsters living ironically, I would like to hear it. If so, then yeah, they are phonies. But maybe they weren't. Maybe life wasn't so great when they first started out. I don't know and neither does Nick.

[hotsy totsy]

First of all, Nick was defending Juan Williams critique of Ann Romney's speech. Knowing the person involved is beside the point when SHE was the one crybabying about how they had gone through such struggles and tough times, when really it was a pretty normal experience for college kids.

I have to quote Chris Rock. "What dya want ..a COOKIE?"

[John]

She didn't cry baby at all. The point wasn't poor me. The point was to defuse the charges that she is some kind of out of touch trust fund baby.

[darius404]

The point was to defuse the charges that she is some kind of out of touch trust fund baby.

And her attempt at doing so is ridiculous.

[hotsy totsy]

But she actually ended up looking more out of touch than ever because in describing their early married life the way she did, it came off as clueless as to what real struggle and poverty are.

Don't think Michelle would've made such a rookie mistake. Juan Williams was correct in that most people, especially poor people, would be offended by her assumptions that she has experienced what they have. She comes off like Marie Antoinette playing sheperdess.

[nobody]

By the way, I don't find Ann Romney's story troubling (for the same reasons I don't find all hipsters troubling), although the thought of a politician's spouse giving a talk to the political party does make me want to barf. God, I hate politics.

[John]

It is her life. She has a right to talk about it. It is not like she claimed she worked in a coal mine or something. I don't find the story to be so outrageous as to warrant calling her a liar and a phony with no evidence to the contrary. And that seems to be what Nick is doing.

[MWG]

"And that seems to be what Nick is doing."

I think you need to take off your red colored glasses for a minute. Would you seriously be this worked up about the article if it were about Michele Obama?

[Joe M]

My turn to say ^this.

Since when are we not allowed to be derisive of the political speeches of those who would rule us and their prop spouses?

[John]

Bull shit MWG. I have defended Obama lots of times on here. Just because you don't like the guy doesn't mean every criticism is legitimate.

[Skip]

The Obamas have said shit like this numerous times and no one ever mentions that Obama got her a make work job at a hospital for hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

[Cytotoxic]

And we have a right to barf at it John.

[John]

Why? How do you know she was lying? How about just not caring?

[nobody]

I'm barfing at the whole idea. If I were running for president, I can't imagine even asking my girlfriend to give a speech about 'our story'.

[Enough About Palin]

You just don't get it. Her grandfather worked in a Welsh coal mine, but because his son (her father) became wealthy, anything her miner grandfather told him about his life fell on rich dead ears.

/sarcasm

My grandparents did pretty well, but when they told me stories of their life during the depressions (yes plural) they certainly had an impact on me.

[MWG]

I'm just glad I'm out of the country and only have access to the highlights and the remarks of the faithful HR commentariat. You guys in the states our probably being shovel fed this stuff on every channel.

Barf indeed.

[RBS]

We are being shovel fed this bullshit on H R.

[nobody]

I'm one of those asshole hipsters that doesn't own a tv, so I'm safe.

[wareagle]

this is where the lack of a tv can be a bad thing as all you get is speeches through the filter of those who either liked or hated them. Of course, you can probably YouTube it, see the whole thing, and judge for yourself. Alternatively, you could do something productive with your time.

[MWG]

True. True... And true.

[MWG]

That was a response to WE.

[darius404]

I'm one of those asshole hipsters that doesn't own a tv, so I'm safe.

I almost got one today, but apparently it wasn't supposed to go in the trash.

[Proprietist]

Seriously, there is so much comic potential in imagining Mitt and Ann Romney as young hipster Mormons from billionaire families who are slumming in basement flats in Boston to experience the "real world" while going to Harvard and Modern Lovers shows. I think it could be a great sitcom.

[Iamtheeviltwin]

Look for it to show up on SnL in the next week or two.

[CampingInYourPark]

I think he's trying to say she was lying about living in a basement apt. and eating tuna because both their parents were rich.

Either that or it's not possible to be poor at any moment if your parents are rich.

Really, I don't know what the hell he's saying

[Fluffy]

He's saying that living in a basement apartment and eating tuna fish when you can leave that at any moment by making a single phone call is different than doing it cold.

There's an element of artificiality to it - a Sullivan's Travels quality.

It's a lame story backing up a lame political semiotics.

I'd respect the Romneys more if they said, "Yeah, we were rich - but we chose to work our asses off to make the country better, when we could have just been the Kardashians and called it a day."

[John]

He's saying that living in a basement apartment and eating tuna fish when you can leave that at any moment by making a single phone call is different than doing it cold.

How do you know she could have? I have known a few parents who had money who would have told their kids to pound sand if they had come running back home under those circumstances.

And beyond that even if she could have, she apparently didn't. If she had lived off her parents, the story would be "that rich bitch never earned anything". But since she didn't the story is "she could have called her parents any time so she is a phony".

There is nothing she could have done that wouldn't have set her up for ridicule by Nick and the rest of them. And that makes the ridicule pretty hollow and stupid.

[Fluffy]

There is nothing she could have done that wouldn't have set her up for ridicule by Nick and the rest of them.

Striking out on your own and not accepting help from rich parents and still making it is highly admirable...

...until the moment when you give a speech and tell me to admire you for it.

And the reason it's admirable (until you talk about it) isn't because you suffered or because it "lets you know how reg'lar people live", which is what she seems to have been going for here. It's admirable because you undertook the exercise of doing things for yourself.

I think part of the issue here is that I start out assigning you two strikes as soon as you start one of these reminiscing speeches as a political figure. I'd be way, way too fastidious and self-conscious to do that myself in her place.

[John]

But she has to say something. Her husband's opponents claim they are out of touch and rich. She can't not respond. And she can't say "fuck you I am rich and love it". So this is the only thing she can say.

[The Gobbler]

And she can't say "fuck you I am rich and love it".

I say that at least once per day.

[Proprietist]

Wouldn't the detail about both of their parents cutting off their financial lifeline other than tuition be kind of important in making the whole poverty story believable?

I mean it's certainly possible. One of my best friends in high school was a multi-millionaire's kid living on the poshest street in Dallas, and he ended up getting kicked out and living penniless in a seedy, flea-ridden motel with a pregnant girlfriend in a notoriously unposh area.

But wouldn't you need the affirmation that the parents cut them off for the story that they couldn't afford a real table to be believable?

[Lord at War]

Prop-

But wouldn't you need the affirmation that the parents cut them off for the story that they couldn't afford a real table to be believable?

Why?

I can tell you stories about me living in my car for 5 months at age 22- does it really matter how rich my parents were?

I might have been an "addict". Is that why my multi-millionaire parents "cut me off"?

Or, was it my reluctance to accept parental support due to my multi-millionaire family's treatment of my lesbian sister- with or without some of my addiction on the side?

Or, was it due to what I perceived an different treatment by my multi-millionaire parents between me and my younger brother- due to support (or lack thereof) for my sister?

Or, maybe Dad died 5 years earlier, Mom was on SSDI due to a back injury, I was doing an "eightball" every three days while sleeping on a couch in the basement of mom's house- and she kicked my ass to the curb.

Which story requires your affirmation"?

[CampingInYourPark]

"I'd respect the Romneys more if they said, 'Yeah, we were rich - but we chose to work our asses off to make the country better, when we could have just been the Kardashians and called it a day.'"

And because we're commenting on one small portion of a whole speech you won't get to respect the Romneys.

"And let's be honest. If the last four years had been more successful, do we really think there would be this attack on Mitt Romney's success?

Of course not.

Mitt will be the first to tell you that he is the most fortunate man in the world. He had two loving parents who gave him strong values and taught him the value of work. He had the chance to get the education his father never had."

http://www.npr.org/2012/08/28/.....ion-speech

[CampingInYourPark]

"But as his partner on this amazing journey, I can tell you Mitt Romney was not handed success.

He built it.

He stayed in Massachusetts after graduate school and got a job. I saw the long hours that started with that first job. I was there when he and a small group of friends talked about starting a new company. I was there when they struggled and wondered if the whole idea just wasn't going to work. Mitt's reaction was to work harder and press on.

Today that company has become another great American success story.

Has it made those who started the company successful beyond their dreams?

Yes, it has."

[CampingInYourPark]

"It allowed us to give our sons the chance at good educations and made all those long hours of book reports and homework worth every minute. It's given us the deep satisfaction of being able to help others in ways that we could never have imagined. Mitt doesn't like to talk about how he has helped others because he sees it as a privilege, not a political talking point. And we're no different than the millions of Americans who quietly help their neighbors, their churches and their communities. They don't do it so that others will think more of them.

They do it because there is no greater joy."

[CampingInYourPark]

"But because this is America, that small company which grew has helped so many others lead better lives. The jobs that grew from the risks they took have become college educations, first homes. That success has helped fund scholarships, pensions, and retirement funds. This is the genius of America: dreams fulfilled help others launch new dreams."

[Mr. Soul]

I just think we're all a little tired of personal stories. Everyone has something to pity in their life and I'm just numb to all the special needs children everyone always helps.

I dont agree with the premise that the Romneys never had to struggle, but I do agree that I dont really care about that.

[MWG]

Mostly this. ^

[John]

I don't really care about it either. But that is how politics is played. And it is her life. She has a right to talk about it. If Nick doesn't care about it, why write a post on it other than to just be a dick and look like he is angry she was born with more money than he was?

[darius404]

If Nick doesn't care about it, why write a post on it other than to just be a dick and look like he is angry she was born with more money than he was?

Actually, his article is just a defense of the guy who ACTUALLY wrote the article about her. If writing it is "ridiculous" for pointing out how fucking fakey the speech was, how ridiculous must it be to dogpile the guy who wrote it? If they hadn't slammed the guy for writing something pretty uncontroversial ("the Romney's weren't poor"), Nick would never had bothered going into this level of detail.

If both of THOSE are petty things, how INCREDIBLY FUCKING PETTY must it be for random readers to post comment after comment lambasting someone for DEFENDING someone else who wrote an article deriding Ann Romney's speech?

[tarran]

This was easily the stupidest article on the GOP convention I have read on this here website, and that's a pretty high bar.

John is right! I've known people who were the children of multi-millionaires - and while daddy had millions, the kids were living in working poverty, because daddy didn't want to hand them life on a silver platter.

Oddly enough, the result tended to produce adults who were good stewards of the family fortune.

[wareagle]

as it is, we've heard about Mitt giving his inheritance to charity and starting a business from scratch. That doesn't sound like Richy Rich. It sounds like someone who was pretty well grounded while growing up and taught that you earn what you get. Seems to me George Romney and his wife did a good job as parents.

[BakedPenguin]

I wonder if anyone has asked her (or him) about MM for her MS.

[CampingInYourPark]

Maybe it would have been better if she'd say something like:

"No, we never struggled. Our parents worked harder and smarter than most people and provided us with everything we needed to make a good life for ourselves. We never took a dime from anyone we didn't earn. So fuck off, leeches"

[Fluffy]

Yes. This, I would have applauded.

[darius404]

Damn right.

[A Serious Man]

The critique of this article is misguided since, regardless of what you think of him, Mitt did do something with the advantages he was given. He didn't just sit around, he built a corporation. George Romney gave his son enough to do something, but not enough to do nothing.

And Ann Romney had MS and breast cancer, so I don't see how her money was of any comfort to her in that regard beyond giving her state of the art care. It sitll must have been scary as shit.

The liberal critique is easy enough to anticipate: she shouldn't talk about her health because she's rich and could afford care. But the fact is socialized medicine would eliminate as an option to the non-rich anyway.

[wareagle]

But the fact is socialized medicine would eliminate as an option to the non-rich anyway.

this to the Nth power. Folks who have never been exposed to a socialized system have no clue for the shock that awaits them. A fundamental principle of those systems is saying no to a variety of treatments we take for granted and for reasons most Americans would clutch pearls over. But the system has to say no becuase even the socialists running it realize there is not enough money to pay for everything.

Joint replacements for seniors? Uh-uh. Exotic treatments for certain diseases? Not likely, especially if you are of a certain age or not in good overall health. When Canada and teh UK allow privatization into their systems, that screams volumes.

[Enough About Palin]

"The liberal critique is easy enough to anticipate: she shouldn't talk about her health because she's rich and could afford care."

So you're saying Nick is a liberal. I see that too. Who did he vote for in 2008?

[A Serious Man]

In this instance he is arguing like one, yes. I get not caring about this whole dog and pony show, but if Ann Romney feels accomplished because she raised a family and beat two serious illnesses we should have no objections just because she married a wealthy man.

[Fluffy]

if Ann Romney feels accomplished because she raised a family and beat two serious illnesses we should have no objections just because she married a wealthy man.

Um...what?

What was she supposed to do when she got her diagnosis - commit suicide?

If there's anything lamer than a fake-o "Look at me, I struggled too" story about poverty, it's a "I'm a hero because I didn't commit suicide when I was told I was sick! Please mail my Medal of Honor to the following address..."

[John]

But no one is arguing she should get a metal you ding bat. The point is you can't claim she is some Maria Antoinette who has no idea what it means to face adversity. That is all it means.

[Ken Shultz]

Fluffy,

You gotta admit that the opposition--opponents of libertarianism and capitalism--are using this to try to fire up some class warfare.

I don't see any reason to let the opposition make all this nothing into cheap ammunition to use against us.

And when I say "us", I mean libertarians and capitalists.

[Citizen Nothing]

Looks like John has gone into full Team Blue retard mode. It's gonna be a long election.

[John]

It is team red you dingbat. Get your slurs proper.

And just because there are good reasons to despise Romney does not mean the Reason should get away with peddling leftist class war bullshit. And that is exactly what this is. If you think think peddling such crap is a good idea and don't like the bullshit being pointed out, too fucking bad. Screaming TEAM doesn't make it any less bullshit.

[Proprietist]

It's not class war BS to say we don't buy the "Mitt and Ann Romney couldn't afford to buy a proper table or an above-ground flat" sob story they are peddling for shallow political gain.

[Iamtheeviltwin]

It is why I have filtered him out in Reasonable...I can get the gist of his screed while not having to actually read it.

[Ken Shultz]

Just for the record...

First, just because your parents are wealthy? That doesn't mean they'll give you any money.

Just, you know, speaking from experience.

Second, A lot of people assumed my parents were wealthy since I went to a private prep/boarding school. And they were right!

What they were wrong about was the fact that I paid for it all myself. I took jobs working at summer camps, riding along with an old truck driver whose contract required him to help unload load his truck but couldn't do it himself. I took jobs on local farms. I cleaned out chicken coops, and I bailed hay. I worked my ass off, and I when I turned 16? I took a job working a line saw in a local furniture factory.

So, um, yeah, I'm not saying this is the case with Mitt. But I've eaten my share of tuna and top ramen, too. Just because someone's parents are wealthy, doesn't mean they never had it hard--or maybe even harder than most.

[John]

Careful Ken. Calling bullshit on any criticism of a Republican, no matter how ridiculous is just team red retard.

[MWG]

When coming from you? Yes. When coming from Ken? Not so much...

Or did you forget how you went full retard for Romney when he announced his running mate?

[John]

Yes because nothing says reasonable argument like attacking the source and ignoring the argument.

And I still think that most Libertarians would be better off voting for Obama.

[MWG]

"Yes because nothing says reasonable argument like attacking the source and ignoring the argument."

I think most people here would agree you lost a shitload of credibility within a matter of hours of the Ryan announcement. Romney and Ryan probably never got so much head from their own wives.

"And I still think that most Libertarians would be better off voting for Obama."

Go ahead and keep repeating this lame ass line. Everybody who saw your decent in Red Team idiocy probably feels all the more sorry for you every time you post it.

[John]

It is team red idiocy to tell people to vote for the other guy. Yeah, that is the ticket. It only makes you angry because it is true I guess.

Romney and Ryan are both fakes who will do nothing but put the Dems back in charge again only worse in 2016. You are better off voting for Obama and making sure he gets the blame.

That is the case Reason has made. It is not my job to argue with it.

[MWG]

"It is team red idiocy to tell people to vote for the other guy. Yeah, that is the ticket. It only makes you angry because it is true I guess.

Romney and Ryan are both fakes who will do nothing but put the Dems back in charge again only worse in 2016. You are better off voting for Obama and making sure he gets the blame."

Keep it up John. The doubling down makes you look all the more delusional and therefore less credible.

"That is the case Reason has made."

Yes, in the mind of a Team Red hack, any criticism of the republican ticket is an outright endorsement of Obama, because, as you know, Reason never posts articles critical of Obama, right?

[John]

It not an outright endorsement you half wit. It is the logical conclusion based on the arguments.

[MWG]

You really are the T o n y of the right, you know that? You argue just like him.

There are plenty of alternatives to voting for Romney or Obama. Just because one of them is likely to win doesn't mean I need to hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils... or in your case, run over to team red's and suck their nominees cock.

[John]

I don't like voting for a lesser of two evils either. That is why I am not voting for Johnson.

[John]

And for the record I am likely to vote for Obama myself on the same theory. Nothing would be worse than Romney getting elected and then selling out.

[MWG]

You transparency is almost as great as your hard on for the Romney/Ryan ticket.

[John]

Fuck you MWG. I am entitled to my own opinions. How fucking dare you claim to know them for me. I mean every God damned word I say. If you don't like it, touch shit you hack.

[Cytotoxic]

I am entitled to my own opinions.

You're also entitled to throw a fucking tantrum and make pathologically dishonest arguments/remarks like a Red Toney. And boy have you been sure to use that right lately.

[MWG]

John, if you really want to be the T o n y of the right, embrace you hackishness as T o n y does his.

[Ken Shultz]

John may have his biases, but he isn't like Tony.

Tony is oblivious to facts. Tony's immune to them when the facts are used against him, too.

John isn't like that at all.

[T o n y]

You have got to be kidding me.

[Ken Shultz]

I should have added...

People who work on Wall Street, like how Romney made his money, mostly don't get to the top without dealing with some pretty extreme circumstances.

The way it works, usually, you get hired to work for investment bank right out of college, but you're only allowed to work for them for about two years. For those two years, most of those kids are living in crummy apartments in New York City, and they're getting worked like rented mules.

After two years, they're expected to leave the firm and either go get an MBA, a JD or both. If you don't go back to school, you're basically kicked to the curb.

Once you get your MBA or JD, you go back to the firm, and then you get a few years to kick ass. If you don't kick ass? If you just do your job? Then you don't make partner. And if you don't make partner, you get kicked to curb.

It's not so bad having a few years on your resume working at an investment bank, but getting paid pretty much only for performance, with the clock ticking on your tenure, that isn't exactly a stable way of life.

[Ken Shultz]

Again, I'm speaking from experience here, off of Wall Street, but in some years I made so much money, I could hardly believe it. Before that, though, there were a few years where I didn't make any money at all. I was livin' econo big time.

That's the way it is on Wall Street for a lot of people, too. The partners are getting paid. A lot of the Private Equity Fund people are making money consistently--like Romney did once he made partner--but most of the people busting their humps on Wall Street aren't partners or Equity Fund Managers. And the ones that are?

Weren't always partners or Equity Fund Managers. Like Romney, they had to prove themselves working almost only for performance pay--and they didn't get paid much until they made it.

I know the public perception of people working on Wall Street doesn't have room for kids in their 20s, living in a shitty apartment, struggling to survive--but that's the way it is for a lot of them.

[Mongo]

Fuck, man, I wish I was a trust-fund baby.

I'd redefine the definition of top-shelf decadence.

[Ken Shultz]

Why not make your own trust fund?

That's what most of the kids trying to make it on Wall Street are trying to do.

Just because some of them DO actually make it? Doesn't mean they always had trust funds.

Why not work yourself into a trust fund like Romney's father did? That guy came from a family with nothing but a work ethic.

[Mike M.]

I'm on record as saying my favorite political spouse is Judith Steinberg Dean, married to former Gov. Howard (D-Vt.). Dr. Dean (she's an M.D. too) refused to play the anointed role of wife or husband who "humanizes" her counterpart and she refused to participate in a gross form of political spectacle with roots in aristocratic court culture.

Oh for Pete's sake, Howard Dean was a whacko who was big news on the national scene for all of like five minutes. Nobody knows anything about Herman Cain's wife either.

[wareagle]

besides that, the running theme in the commentariat has been how machine-like Romney appears, that he barely seems human at all. Well, maybe his wife sees a different side.

Is it political pabulum? Sure, it is but that's what most convention speeches are. It was what it was. Years ago, we had "the man from Hope" video, which was schlock but it played with the convention goers.

[Enough About Palin]

"Dr. Dean (she's an M.D. too) refused to play the anointed role of wife or husband who "humanizes" her counterpart"

Not even G_d would play that anointed role.

[MWG]

I lol'd.

[Citizen Nothing]

I've got a very good friend whose parents are in the top 1/10th of the 1 percent. He's currently between jobs and having a bit of a rum go, and he doesn't get subsidies from his family. But do I worry about him ending up on the street eating catfood? I do not. Because in the final analysis, his family isn't gonna let that happen. Would I call "bullshit" if he ran for office and peddled a story about his struggles? No, because he's my friend. But in my heart I would know it was bullshit. Just as I know the same about anything the Romneys are peddling to try to "connect" with the common schmucks.

[MWG]

But you don't personally know them CN so to merely question the stories they feed us little people is unacceptable.

/John

[Citizen Nothing]

Speaking of "rum goes," I made myself think of Wodehouse. A lot of his characters had "troubles," too, but the troubles encountered by Bertie Wooster were exponentially different from those encountered, say, by any random Dickens character.

[wareagle]

just because you believe your friend could get bailed out by the family if he really really really wanted to does not make his current situation less than it is, nor does it make his trying to fix it solo less noteworthy.

You obviously know him better than I do, but how much of his NOT calling the folks is due to his upbringing? Sounds like the last thing he wants to do is call home. He would rather struggle on his own and rebound than ask mama for money. But I could be presuming things that are not accurate.

[darius404]

just because you believe your friend could get bailed out by the family if he really really really wanted to does not make his current situation less than it is

Uh yes, yes it does. Or rather, it makes it less of something for him to praise yourself over in a speech trying to garner votes. Working hard when you don't have a lot of money? Great. Working hard when you don't have a lot of money but your parents can bail you out at any second? Still pretty good, but not anything to write a speech about.

[rac]

In what way was the Obamas' experience more of a struggle? If struggle is necessary for election to Prez, I nominate Lindsey Lohan. That bitch be strugglin' with that junk man.

[Mongo]

The things I could do to her with a hot shovel...

[continues daydreaming]

[ClubMedSux]

Wow... This comment thread reads like a parody of libertarians. I hate class warfare as much as the next guy, but this is hardly engaging in class warfare. This is about a politician's wife's transparent attempt to make her husband more likeable by portraying a wealthy elite as a man-of-the-people. When Obama tries to paint himself as some black kid who grew up in the mean streets of Chicago, he's mocked and rightfully so. Ann Romney should be likewise mocked. That doesn't mean that it's wrong to grow up wealthy. It means it's wrong to be full of shit in an attempt to win votes.

[Joe M]

Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

[Citizen Nothing]

Of course, CMSX. But your point is so obvious that those who "miss" it are either complete retards or disingenuous Republicans. The fun is trying to sort out the two groups.

[John]

She never claimed to be a man of the people. She just made the obvious point that yes she had lived a real life at some point.

Her husband's opponents claim she is out of touch and rich. What is she supposed to say to that? Fuck yeah I am rich eat it? She can't say that and if she did Reason would have a field day. This is nothing but heads I win tails you lose bullshit.

[MWG]

Shorter John:

Why can't you love them as I do?

[John]

I don't even love them you disingenuous fuckwad. I never supported Romney. You just don't have an argument. Well fuck you. Too bad you are too stupid to come up with an argument to defend Nick on this. I am going to continue to shove this bullshit up your ass with my fist. And screaming TEAM Red isn't going to help.

[MWG]

Wow, I've appearantly touched a nerve. Your vicious words are like daggers to my sensitive libertarian heart.

You ARE a team red cock sucking hack. You have ZERO credibiltiy when it comes to defending anyone associated with the republicans since the Paul Ryan nomination. Everybody here who read your posts that day knows it.

[John]

It is called being honest retard. I don't like Romney. never have. You want to claim he invented Obamacare and is a big government fake, you won't get any argument from me. But this is just lefty class war bullshit. And you know it. And you are embarrassed by it and can't defend it. All you can do is scream Team Red.

But as I said, that don't work, so let me shove this full Steve Smith up there a little farther.

[MWG]

Hey Romney cocksucker, if you go back and read my original comment, I actually said I could see both arguments. YOU'RE the one going full retard to defend Ann Romney's honor just as you always and predictably do.

[John]

Yeah MWG, no one like Romney so that makes every class warfare bullshit argument correct.

[Cytotoxic]

You're both being retarded. Just go to your rooms already.

[MWG]

It's not class warfare to suggest A. Romney is embellishing their past struggles with poverty.

[Citizen Nothing]

Well, I think John just sorted himself rather nicely.

[Pro Libertate]

Personally? I'd have been carried out on a litter, sat down and gorged myself on truffle-infused ocelot's spleens, then vomited on stage. I'd have looked the camera dead on and said, "Poverty sucks." Then I'd have been carried off of the stage by litter again, only this time employing a whip.

[Citizen Nothing]

And you'd have gotten MY vote.

[Pro Libertate]

I would only have sought the vote of aristocrats such as yourself, seeking quality over quantity. Vote-counting is so gauche.

[Citizen Nothing]

But see, I'm pretty much a one-issue voter. If you oppose eating ocelot spleens, then, well, fuck you.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, I don't. In fact, I highly recommend them.

[Citizen Nothing]

You already made the sale. Now close, dude. Close.
(You know who the coffee is for, right?)

[Pro Libertate]

[Overnights a year's supply of ocelot-spleens to Citizen Nothing, with a few free samples of larks' tongues tossed in.]

[Citizen Nothing]

I hope you sent out the rufous-tailed lark tongues, and not those cheap-assed eastern long-billed lark tongues like you did last election.

[Pro Libertate]

Those responsible for that error have been sacked. In fact, we sacked those who sacked the sacked, just to be sure.

[Citizen Nothing]

A moose once bit my sister. No, realli!

[T o n y]

Maybe it is the case that she can't win John. She's a wealthy person arguing for her husband to be elected president so he can give more goodies to wealthy people. There's no way to spin this that doesn't deserve to be called out as bullshit.

[Citizen Nothing]

Just when John starts to make us forget how clueless the other team is...

[MWG]

As I said above, T o n y and John are opposite side of the same coin. It's sad really... does John go full Red retard months before every presidential election?

[OldMexican]

She's a wealthy person arguing for her husband to be elected president so he can give more goodies to wealthy people.

"I only stole $50.00 from that rich guy. I gave him the other $50.00 he had in his wallet. I don't know how can I afford such charity!"

That's the upside-down logic upon which Tony's mind operates.

[MWG]

You pretty much said what I was trying to get at. Except you did it in one comment and it took me...like 10.

[darius404]

This is about a politician's wife's transparent attempt to make her husband more likeable by portraying a wealthy elite as a man-of-the-people.

It's not even that. It's an article defending SOMEONE ELSE who wrote an article about "a politician's wife's transparent attempt to make her husband more likeable by portraying a wealthy elite as a man-of-the-people" and getting dogpiled for making an obvious criticism. And then the guy defending the guy who ACTUALLY wrote an article on the subject is dogpiled.

[Iamtheeviltwin]

WE and John hardly make a dogpile, most everyone else criticizing Nick is half-hearted at best.

[darius404]

most everyone else criticizing Nick is half-hearted at best.

Maybe so, but I'd say most of the posters in this thread have taken shots, half-hearted or not. Anyway, I like Mr. Soul's way of putting it best:

I just think we're all a little tired of personal stories. Everyone has something to pity in their life and I'm just numb to all the special needs children everyone always helps.

I dont agree with the premise that the Romneys never had to struggle, but I do agree that I dont really care about that.

[Proprietist]

"I remember fondly the time when Mitt and I went dumpster diving. Mitt was wearing a torn Minor Threat shirt and a rattail, I a vintage dress from Salvation Army. The look in his eyes when he handed me that half-eaten donut - I just... I knew it was true love."

[darius404]

"And then we finally called our parents to bail us out of that God-awful mess. And we've been rich ever since. The End."

[darius404]

"....Vote Romney."

[Libertarian]

I admit it, I have not read all 193 comments above, so forgive me if I'm parroting someone else:

One current meme is that we shouldn't be afraid of success.......yet here we are, Ms Romney going through the motions of relating their "struggle" as 20 somethings. For god's sake, make up your minds!

[darius404]

It's not about their success, and it's not about them working hard when they didn't have a lot of stuff. It's the idea that it somehow gives them a real understanding of being poor.

I've been poor. My entire life has been lived with little-to-no money (to me, even $40,000/year is RICH), and I've never gone without anything I needed: not food, clothes, housing, school, furniture; not even when I had no job and lived on Food Stamps. So I'm not terribly convinced by their "it was oh-so-tough waiting for my husband to graduate from business school and law school and become fabulously wealthy" schtick.

[darius404]

Sort of got away from my point: in a nutshell, it's that there's a big, big difference between people working hard and living on very little because they chose to, and people who live that way because they have to. And acting like she lived the latter when it was really the former, is annoying as hell.

[db]

Is Tipper releasing Al's chakra?

[AlmightyJB]

I think Al must be on Bath Salts. He's trying to eat her face.

[AlmightyJB]

She's the wife. As long as she cuss or doesn't say anything racist or too stupid like that there is 57 states or something that's a win. Does any average joe go into an Ann Romney speech expecting her life experiences to "resonate" with them? Seems rather nitpicky to me. if that's all anyone has to complain about the Romney camp should be pretty happy. I tend to give the wives a little bit of slack. They're not necessarily professional liers like their other halves.