Todd Akin Sticks it Out, Assange's Savior No Angel, NHS Wants to Expand: P.M. Links

• Rep. Todd Akin will not drop his Senate challenge in Missouri because of his rape pregnancy comments, so it's time for another politician to say something breathtakingly stupid for the next news cycle.

• Julian Assange's new BFF President Rafael Correa is no fan of press freedoms in Ecuador. Media outlets critical of the president have been shut down. Wonder what might happen if WikiLeaks digs up something embarrassing to the president? Meanwhile, hackers are attacking UK government websites in support of Assange.
• That absurd Olympic display was apparently an attempt at advertising. The British government is looking to sell the National Health Service "brand" abroad and expand their services.
• A research company estimates that an attack on Iran would cost Israel $41.4 billion.
• Rumors have it Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad might be willing to resign to end the 17-month-long civil war that has killed tens of thousands.
• The World Russian People's Council says people defending Pussy Riot are the ones who are intolerant. They've learned a lot from the West, haven't they?

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Rep. Todd Akin will not drop his Senate challenge in Missouri because of his rape pregnancy comments...

Todd will not be another silent victim of rape comments.

[Banjos]

This is what I get for trying to compete with a master.

[nicole]

It's just that HyR's body shuts down at the prospect of a legitimate fisting.

[Brett L]

Its too early to win the comments.

[Pro Libertate]

He's an idiot, but is that really much worse than the idiocies spewed by other politicians?

[Rich]

"Are you serious?"

[Pro Libertate]

There's one good one. Which is far more serious, of course, as a senator isn't going to be legalizing rape or banning abortion or whatever else his statement is being used to imply.

I'm surprised that people are surprised that politicians are unethical idiots. Because that's what most of them are. Why vote for such people in the first place?

[VG Zaytsev]

He's an idiot, but is that really much worse than the idiocies spewed by other politicians?

Yes.

[Pro Libertate]

It may be dumber than average, but it's not like he's suggesting perpetual war, shitting on the Constitution, or any of the other things that apparently pass the laugh test today.

[VG Zaytsev]

Yeah it is because he's done all of those also.

He's fucked himself and handed ammunition to the socialists to fuck the ideals that he claims to support.

At this point, he's proving that the only principle that he really believes in is his own promotion at all costs.

Fuck him.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, sure, fuck him. I agree. I'm just not that upset about the comment, as it seems like par for the course with these people.

[fried wylie]

the only principle that he really believes in is his own promotion at all costs.

Isn't that the core value of politics?

[VG Zaytsev]

Yeah well.

A wise man once told me that a politician's job is to get elected next time.

An idea that I'm still haven't fully accepted.

[JW]

The War on Intelligence will never end.

[fried wylie]

Thankfully Intelligence always manages to keep two steps ahead.

...but god the vigilance is taxing.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Thank Zod the media found another pertinent story to occupy us for a few days. I can't fucking believe the coverage this non-event is getting.

We are doomed.

[Randian]

War on Wimminz, yo!

[R C Dean]

Any excuse not to talk about the sputtering economy or the burning fuzes in the Middle East.

[fried wylie]

Fucking savages shoulda switched to breakers decades ago. Fuck em.

[Professor Booty]

Fuzes don't burn, fuses do. Fuzes are mechanical. Now excuse me while I go lash myself in penance for my pedantry...

[Loki]

Any excuse to avoid talking about anything important.

[Enough About Palin]

WARNING - PIZZA CIRCUMCISION BELOW

[Enough About Palin]

AND ABORTION!!!!!1111111!

[Banjos]

FIST!!!!!!!!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Shut up, baby, I know it.

[Auric Demonocles]

Fister honey, we love you!

[Episiarch]

That absurd Olympic display was apparently an attempt at advertising. The British government is looking to sell the National Health Service "brand" abroad and expand their services.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good luck with that, limeys. People will eat free shit sandwiches because it's all they have, but no one's going to buy shit sandwiches.

[rts]

Of the three health care systems I've had direct contact with, I'd rank them like this:

First: United States
Distant second: Canada
Two hundredth: UK

[Anacreon]

B-b-b-b-b-but USA is rated lower than Uzbekistan for life expectancy!! Some people go to the ER instead of standing in line at NHS! We must have the worst health care system in the world!

[Drake]

Out here in the real world, we negotiate contracts in unpleasant ways. Failure to meet agreed upon service levels would result in financial penalties and possible termination of the contract.

I don't think the NHS wants to swim in those waters.

[Brett L]

911 is a joke, Dallas version.

Police in Dallas are conducting an internal investigation after discovering that a 32-year-old woman who was found murdered on Sunday had called 911 two days before.

Mistakes were made, but procedures were followed. Just remember. When seconds count, the police may not even be on their way.

[fried wylie]

a 32-year-old woman who was found murdered on Sunday, while police were performing a no-knock raid at the wrong address...

[fried wylie]

(to their credit, they shot the dog because it really did look like he was attacking the corpse.)

[Solanum]

When seconds count, the police are only days away.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A research company estimates that an attack on Iran would cost Israel $41.4 billion.

Going at Israelis with a cost/benefit analysis? Stereotyping shock and awe.

[Rich]

Did the company estimated how much the Israeli attack would cost the United States?

*** decides to RTFA **

[Rich]

Nope. However,

"This amount is not the final figure," BDI said. "There is damage which is difficult to estimate, such as the loss of foreign customers and the collapse of businesses (especially small businesses), which could be permanent.

[Aresen]

That was pretty well my first thought.

[Enough About Palin]

"A research company estimates that an attack on Iran would cost Israel $41.4 billion."

Well seeing as they have all the money...

BTW, saw Pi last night. What a cool film.

[Episiarch]

Aranofsky is an interesting director and screenwriter.

[RBS]

I thought it was pretty cool too. I tried to get my wife to watch it though, she hated it and went upstairs after about 30 mins.

[Enough About Palin]

Had never seen it before. Was a math-wiz in school (highest test score in the state of Minnesota in 6th grade). Just love the stuff.

[Pro Libertate]

Didn't like it, myself.

[Episiarch]

Why am I not surprised? Not enough deep dish pizza in it, ProLoser?

[Pro Libertate]

Isn't that what the film is supposed to be about?

[Episiarch]

The film is about how there is a hidden code in the Torah telling us that God thinks deep dish "pizza" is an abomination and a tool of Satan.

[Mad Scientist]

Your ciphering skills are clearly inadequate. It's clear that God abhors thin crust pizza. That's the same kind McDonald's made.

[Pro Libertate]

That seems unlikely. Seriously, let's take a vote. Who is more likely a minion of Satan here, me or Episiarch? No joke votes, only serious ones.

[Auric Demonocles]

I'd say Epi, but I don't see him being a minion. He'd be more like a chaotic individual who happens to have similar goals sometimes.

[Pro Libertate]

Fellow traveler then. In any case, one vote for Episiarch, the Satan of Hit Run.

[Auric Demonocles]

It is when you're from New York. Then "pie" refers to pizza for some odd reason. Perhaps because Bloomberg outlawed actual pie?

[Pro Libertate]

I made an apple pie from scratch for my daughter a few weeks ago. First time I'd ever done that. I had no idea how much butter was involved, but it was awesome.

[Auric Demonocles]

Butter?! Why are you trying to kill your daughter?

[Pro Libertate]

She loves apples. She loves sweets. Wouldn't even try the pie. So I ended up eating half of it. Which is funny, because I'm the non-sweets person in the family (for the most part and compared to the rest of them).

I may make one for Bloomberg and send it via FedEx.

[Loki]

I ended up eating half of it.

I've watched American Pie, so I know what that means. Just admit you put your dick in it.

[Pro Libertate]

You know, this is a strange comments section. all told.

[fried wylie]

I may make one for Bloomberg and send it via FedEx.

Skip the DHS visit.

[Enough About Palin]

You're supposed to use lard.

True story.

[Pro Libertate]

What do I know about pie? I've made one, total.

My great aunt, who is the best cook of Southern cuisine I know, switched from lard to Crisco for her biscuits, ages ago. Not sure if she did that with her fried pies.

[ShagNasty]

did you first invent the universe?

[Pro Libertate]

That's the Sagan recipe, right? I didn't have the appropriate utensils for that one.

[Auric Demonocles]

What about just corrupting the existing universe instead? That's the Satan recipe.

[Pro Libertate]

Episiarch uses that one exclusively. That's two votes for him.

[Auric Demonocles]

Suckers. If you'd made me show ID I couldn't have voted for Epi just then.

[Auric Demonocles]

Suckers. If you'd made me show ID I couldn't have voted for as Epi just then.

Clearer.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm pretty sure Episiarch voted for himself, too.

[Auric Demonocles]

I'm pretty sure Episiarch voted for himself, too

Well duh. I just voted for Epi, and I am Epi, so there. And if I happen to show up later to vote again, that will be too bad.

[Pro Libertate]

So it's unanimous, Episiarch works for or is in league with Satan, and all of his positions are, or somehow advance, evil. Except for the whole TEAM thing and the anti-Bayism, which he's accidentally not-evil on.

[Episiarch]

None of this is news to anyone.

[Pro Libertate]

Exactly. I fail to see why a vote was even necessary.

[Auric Demonocles]

It's in the Constitution. Duh.

[Warty]

I thought Pi fucking blew. His other work is really good, but I couldn't get into that one.

[Pro Libertate]

See? And when you've lost Warty. . . .

[Warty]

Too much fake math for me.

[Professor Booty]

Wait, so you actually liked The Fountain?

[Randian]

so it's time for another politician to say something breathtakingly stupid for the next news cycle

Unfortunately Biden's chained up in the WH basement somewhere.

[Rich]

Or on the roof.

[Brett L]

Dude, the Biden washing his Trans Am on the WH lawn makes me laugh every time.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Man, I wish the Onion's portrayals of Biden were remotely close to the real thing.

[Randian]

They are! That's why we love Biden.

Someone said it here a few days ago, but "in a just world, all of our politicians would be minor variations of Joe Biden"

[Killazontherun]

Getting an ad for ShockTop over there. Never had one, any decent? Why don't we get craft brewery advertisements, Nick? Bet you make a little loot bringing them in.

[Mad Scientist]

ShockTop is not great, but it's pretty good. It has just enough citrus to get your attention without overwhelming the beer.

[BakedPenguin]

I think their Raspberry Wheat is excellent - and I'm a lush.

[Warty]

Don't we get the Lagunitas ads anymore?

[Killazontherun]

I haven't seen the Lagunitas ad. For some reason the adsense thinks Princes Cruise is the right fit for me.

[Warty]

Well, you do like to cruise in truck stop bathrooms, but you're more of a queen than a princess. Still, it fits.

[Killazontherun]

How did you know about my little trip to Minnesota?

[Killazontherun]

I wonder if Joe is under strict orders not to mention the Akin matter. He could change the direction of that story on the dime by saying almost anything that would pop into Joe's head.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The British government is looking to sell the National Health Service "brand" abroad and expand their services.

By showing kids forced to sleep outside? What's British for fail?

[Enough About Palin]

Russell Brand?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Oh bloody well snap.

[Brett L]

I've found a job that several of you are qualified for: Google objectionable content screener.

His role at the tech company mainly consisted of reviewing things like bestiality, necrophilia, body mutilations (gore, shock, beheadings, suicides), explicit fetishes (like diaper porn) and child pornography found across all Google products ? an experience that he found "scarring."

Many HyR regulars would call this "Tuesday".

[Episiarch]

I call it "NutraSweet".

[A Serious Man]

Aurora, CO turns to Facebook to determine what should become of the theater where the shooting took place.

It is unclear whether or not they've consulted the theater owner on the matter.

[John]

These people are missing a huge business opportunity. Use the theater and only show horror films. People would pay big bucks for that.

[Rich]

"You never know ... when ... HE might ... STRIKE AGAIN!!"

*** hackneyed scream ***

[Warty]

Pickles the Drummer: Happy birthday!
Nathan Explosion: Well what do you think?
Toki Wartooth: Big fat tires and everything!
William Murderface: But I already got, like, a million limos.
Pickles the Drummer: Dude, not like this one. This is the limo that Kennedy got his brains smashed open in with a bullet.
Nathan Explosion: It's all souped up...AND DESECRATEDDDDDDDDDDD.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I suggest turning it into a theater.

[Episiarch]

A theater...of BLOOD!

[John]

They kept the Luby's of death open in Killeen Texas for more than a decade after it was the scene of a mass shooting. People needed somewhere to eat.

[Banjos]

How about a theatre?

[A Serious Man]

Is it theater or theatre? There's just something pretentious about the 're' spelling.

[Banjos]

That's because the "re" spelling is the chosen spelling of non Americans. It is away of distinguishing between commies and non commies.

[Auric Demonocles]

Similarly, extra instances of "u" are super pretentious (when written by Americans- otherwise they're just wrong).

[CE]

So your real name is Aric?

[Auric Demonocles]

That's not an "extra" u. I'd be pretentious if I went around as "Auric Demounoucles".

[Translucent Chum]

Hmm. How about that one screen in the theater only showing DKR (and no other shows ever) at the same time as when the actual incident occurred?

Too soon now, but a lot of places where awful things have happened have been turned into attractions.

[nipplemancer]

They should turn it into an artisinal mayo factory. For the children.

[Shirley Knott]

Children are too fatty to benefit from a mayo schmear. Better to use mustard.

[Brett L]

They've finally found a way for Biden to make positive contributions to the Obama campaign. They're sending him to Tampa during the GOP convention.

[A Serious Man]

I'm willing to bet money he'll say something racist about black/minority Republicans.

[Brett L]

I never bet against Crazy Uncle Joe saying something stupid.

[Pro Libertate]

The Mons?

[Brett L]

I'm sure the Secret Service detail would love that.

[Pro Libertate]

In all seriousness, I'd be surprised if they weren't checking out those clubs. Legitimately and less so.

[Randian]

Joe would give out dollar bills with his face on them.

[Pro Libertate]

In some ways, he's the best VP ever.

[Loki]

Are they trading him to the republicans for Todd Akin, an idiot to be named later, and the first round pick in this year's Professional Moron Draft?

[VG Zaytsev]

+1

[rts]

Pro-life flag will not fly at Kelowna City Hall

Kelowna city councillors have voted to stop flying any "courtesy flags" in front of city hall after an anti-abortion group applied to fly their pro-life flag.

I'm sure it seemed like a great idea when this policy was thought up... until someone unpopular showed up to have a flag flown.

[Rich]

How about compromising and letting the pro-lifers fly a pro-choice flag upside down?

"Courtesy flag", indeed.

[Eduard van Haalen]

"fly a pro-choice flag upside down"

A dead baby looks the same whether upside-down or not.

[A Serious Man]

Informal study suggests that professional baseball players have a higher post-career mortality rate than NFL players. Interesting considering all the concern about violent football head injuries.

[John]

http://www.momsteam.com/return.....tudy-finds\

Youth soccer has a higher injury rate that football. But don't let facts and science get in the way of a media induced panic.

[Auric Demonocles]

But how many of those youth soccer injuries were faked?

[Episiarch]

Depends on if it was an Italian or French team, or not.

[KDN]

Further paving the way towards the no-contact-sports future prophesised by Demolition Man. Three seashells here we come!

[Episiarch]

Nah, never going to happen. People love their football too much.

[John]

People love violence. I find it difficult to believe that the same society that dropped boxing for MMA is going to give up its football addiction because it is too dangerous for their little special snowflakes to play.

[Auric Demonocles]

Anecdotal, but my dad wouldn't sign the waivers to let me play in high school. This is the same guy who had me running a farm tractor when I was 8 and hunting deer by myself when I was 10.

[John]

classic

[Somalian Road Corporation]

I recall you bitching about this unanswered in a story that I read a few days too late to comment on, but re: Reason and the multi-page annoyances on your phone, you can just use Google Reader or or some other RSS app with the Reason full feed and you'll see the whole thing at once without having to repeatedly click.

RSS feeds/readers are one of those major modern civilization/quality of life things to me because they allow me to take in so much more and easily keep track and note things of interest.

[Auric Demonocles]

My brief attempt to do this has not worked out. Thanks for the tip though, I'll look into it a bit more later. Can I get the comments on the RSS feed too?

[CE]

When do they bring back the gladiators? You know people would watch.

[mr simple]

Or jousting. i would watch jousting. That show on the History Channel was great.

[Stormy Dragon]

They already have. Any half decent rennaisance faire will have jousting.

[CuriousGeorge]

Yeah, but I think he wants a higher risk of serious injury

[Fluffy]

In one sport you wear no equipment and run long distances at full speed at your opponents for 45 minutes at a time.

In another sport you wear deep sea diver gear and spend most of the time standing around waiting to briefly make contact with someone standing within 5 feet of you, with both of you starting from a bent-over full stop.

Gee, I wonder which sport will lead to more injuries.

[Auric Demonocles]

You have a very odd view of football. You are aware there is more than one position, correct?

[CE]

In one sport the guys on the other team are trying to kick the ball away from you, and they weigh like 170. In the other they're trying to violently separate you from the ball and your senses by delivering a bone-crushing blow, and they weigh like 275 and run the 40 in 4.6 seconds.

[Emmerson Biggins]

In one sport tripping is banned. In another, it depends on whether you get the ball first, or on the acting skills of your opponent.

[VG Zaytsev]

Informal study suggests that professional baseball players have a higher post-career mortality rate than NFL players.

I thought that both groups have a 100% mortality rate.

[CE]

So far, but the singularity is getting closer.

[Auric Demonocles]

There are still hundreds of ex players who have beaten the odds!

[Stormy Dragon]

I'm pretty sure the percentage of players who die after the end of their careers is 100% for both sports...

[A Serious Man]

Yeah yeah, VG beat you too it, but the study was done within a certain time frame.

[johnl]

Study looks iffy. They assume either that their baseball and football players have similar age distributions or that age doesn't matter.

[Brett L]

Ooh, racist media thinks it matters that Paul Ryan dated a black woman. Their conclusion: He can still be a racist because they say so.

[John]

I love the weasel words at the end of that. "I am not saying Ryan is a racist". Whatever gets you through the night sweetie.

[RBS]

The comments are surprisingly not retarded.

[Ska]

The comments made me think the article was linked somewhere else.

[John]

I find it difficult to believe that anyone who was a heart a racist would ever date a black woman.

[Mr. FIFY]

That should apply to ANYONE of ANY color who has ever dated outside of their race.

But we're talking about leftists here, who think "racism" means "whatever the fuck we want it to mean".

[Banjos]

No, they have a clear definition: anyone who is not a leftist.

[Jersey Patriot]

It's easy. Watch:

"I know, I know, but s/he is one of the good ones."

[OldMexican]

Throughout his lifetime, Sen. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina financially and emotionally supported the daughter he fathered with an underage black servant. In addition to paying for her education, he was also known to play the part of proud parent by visiting her college campus and make inquiries to faculty about her educational progress.

"And, you see, Ryan is Republican and Thurmond was Republican, so, ergo, my case is made! Ta-da!"

[Brett L]

Which party, exactly, was Strom in when he took his black mistress? I'll bet it wasn't the Republican party.

[OldMexican]

Re: Brett L,

That's probably not something that keeps Ms. Keli Goff awake at night. She made the clever connection in her head and by God! If she will stick to it until the Rapture.

[Xenocles]

He broke up with her, ergo racist.

[rts]

Open Carry at Eugene Oregon in Alton Baker Park and detained.

A whole lot of douchbag in the above video.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Papers please.

[OldMexican]

The British government is looking to sell the National Health Service "brand" abroad and expand their services.

Talk about exporting revolution.

The World Russian People's Council says people defending Pussy Riot are the ones who are intolerant. They've learned a lot from the West, haven't they?

Anti-clerical hooligans with zero respect for porperty rights defended by clueless anti-clerical libertarians with thin skins. More news, after the game.

[John]

As someone said in the other thread, lets see what sentence a Christian punk band who broke into an abortion clinic to sing protest songs would get before we start feeling all superior to Putin's Russia.

[A Serious Man]

Declining rates of circumcision in U.S. could lead to $4.4 billion healthcare bill as number of STDs soars.

This is why I don't understand the call for banning circumcision, it really does have tangible health benefits for men.

[John]

But it prevents some gay guy somewhere from possibly experiencing a bit of sexual pleasure. And that is what is important.

[RBS]

When I worked on The Hill the anti-circumcision guys were always my favorite protesters. Second would be the creepy woman who stalked the LHOB dressed as a prisoner with a wearing a blind fold and a ball gag.

[John]

My favorite is the guy who stands in front of the Vatican embassy over on Mass Avenue with the "The Pope Hides Pedophiles" sign. In five years of living here, I have never once, day or night, weekday or weekend, driven by and seen him not there. The guy doesn't fucking move. And doesn't have a tent or shelter.

[nicole]

WTF does it have to do with being gay?

[John]

It is cause celebre among the gay community.

[Fluffy]

Very few straight gays are walking around thinking,

"You know what really pisses me off? That my dick isn't MORE sensitive!"

I think I speak for 85%+ of the straight male population when I say that when I'm having sex, my goal is NOT cumming. I'll happily fight it out on that line if it takes all summer. I'm definitely NOT there thinking, "Damn it, if my evil unjust parents had just not circumcised me, I could have cum in 3 seconds and gotten out of here to go play Halo."

[Coeus]

I think I speak for 85%+ of the straight male population when I say that when I'm having sex, my goal is NOT cumming.

Having been on both sides of that line in the last 5 years (too soon vs too damn long), I can assure you that this is a case of the grass always being greener.

[Skomoroh]

For most things it is usually true that, up to a point, more sensitive means more control. I don't think it is a given that circumcised men have more control. I wonder if there is any research on this.

[Coeus]

I don't remember where I saw that, but I also read something along those lines before.

[VG Zaytsev]

Very few straight gays are walking around thinking,

What's a straight gay?

[Fluffy]

Straight guys, sorry. Geez, what a typo.

[Auric Demonocles]

Those it's also true that very few straight gays are walking around thinking.

[Auric Demonocles]

If we had an edit button that first word would say "Though".

[Episiarch]

The circumcision shit is just another fucking TEAM thing, and is behaving the same way with the same resultant stupidity. Are you TEAM TIP or TEAM NIP, Serious?

[Episiarch]

Sorry, that should have been TEAM NIP or TEAM SNIP.

[Episiarch]

GAHHHHHHHHHH

TEAM TIP or TEAM SNIP

Fuck.

[John]

If you are circumcised, isn't it a bit late to bitch about it? Of all the things to get exercised about, I am thinking whether future children you will probably never meet get circumcised has to be one of the most retarded. If that is not peak retard, it is close.

[nicole]

Yeah, because the only reason to think it's not okay to mutilate children without their consent is because it was done to you!

[John]

Yeah because circumcision is so akin to mutilation. Female perhaps, but male circumcision is a medical procedure that reduces a lot of health risks. Preventive medical procedures are not mutilation. Step back from the retard Nicole.

[nicole]

It reduces some health risks that are irrelevant to infants, like STDs, and others that should be irrelevant to people in the developed world where we have basic hygiene. In cases where there are real UTI problems, I think it's fine. But not routinely?especially not when we know for most people it's cosmetic, not medical anyway.

[John]

Well that is just wonderful you think it is fine in some circumstances. Others disagree. In fact some people exercise their Constitutional right to religious practice and think it is great idea all of the time. How about you do what you want with your children and they do what they want with theirs?

[Randian]

It's a mother's right to choose John.

Wait a minute, I have my notes mixed up here.

[nicole]

I think you mean some people impose their religion on infants who have no idea what religion even is.

John, please let's stop forgetting I'm an anarchist. That doesn't mean I can't speak out against things I think are immoral or unethical.

[mr simple]

So the person here who has no firsthand knowledge on having or not having foreskin thinks it's unethical and immoral? Sorry if I don't give a crap about your opinion, especially since it's neither.

[Coeus]

So the person here who has no firsthand knowledge on having or not having foreskin thinks it's unethical and immoral? Sorry if I don't give a crap about your opinion, especially since it's neither.

And I take it you've never opined about abortion?

[Ted S.]

I think Nicole has knowledge in not having foreskin.

[The Hammer]

Ok, so you don't advocate making it illegal to circumcise infants?

[Stormy Dragon]

Gelding would reduce those health risks even further; if you're complete abstinent, you chance of getting an STD is almost zero, and it's also been show to greatly reduce your lifetime cancer risk. Would you be fine with a parent choosing to do that to an infant as well?

[A Serious Man]

My parents allowed doctors to poke a hole in my arm and inject me with pathogens to vaccinate me....without my consent!

[nicole]

Did that hole close up?

[A Serious Man]

One actually did leave a small scar on my arm.

[CE]

Those vaccine blaster guns they used back in the day left permanent scars. Not sure why they thought it was better than a needle.

[Calidissident]

nicole, as a circumsized man, I really don't get why I or anyone else would care much either way. I don't miss my foreskin any more than I miss my umbilical cord

[Rich]

If you are circumcised, isn't it a bit late to bitch about it?

Nope.

[Randian]

In fairness, Episiarch, there really are only two choices on this on, so the mocking TEAM model doesn't work quite as well.

[John]

Remember, if you don't like abortion, just don't have one. But if you object to circumcision, not circumcising your children and leaving everyone else alone to decide is apparently not an option.

[Randian]

Well spake, sir.

[nicole]

I absolutely want to leave everyone else alone to decide.

To decide for themselves.

Not for someone else.

[Randian]

Does that include the fetus, nicole?

[nicole]

LOL, are you suggesting fetuses consent to being born?

[Randian]

Are you suggesting they consent to being terminated?

[nicole]

No, I'm suggesting they're not moral agents.

[Randian]

No, I'm suggesting they're not moral agents.

But infants are?

Free hint: there is a reason they are called "children" and not "tiny adults"

[nicole]

No, infants aren't. And they can't consent to be circumcised.

Here's my deal: if you have a kid, you are forcing it to live. That is something you can never take back. You are taking full responsibility for it on your shoulders, and if you are going to be moral about it, you had better do whatever you can do not do more irremediable shit than you have already done. Circumcision=irremediable. Vaccines=rarely irremediable.

Any choice you make as a parent will be, to some extent, irremediable. That's what makes parenting an extremely scary moral thing.

[John]

Sure Nicole. And if you don't get him circumcised and he some day gets an STD because of it, what then?

There are two sides to this issue. That is why the government should stay out of it. You don't want to circumcise your son, good for you.

[Mad Scientist]

What then? It's a terrible burden, but you'll have to go to the clinic and get some meds.

[Randian]

Uh, yeah, unless you get HIV. I hear they don't quite have a pill for that one yet.

[Mad Scientist]

So not having a foreskin can magically protect you from HIV now?

[Randian]

So not having a foreskin can magically protect you from HIV now?

Gosh, I dunno: Ask the CDC and see what they say.

[Coeus]

Gosh, I dunno: Ask the CDC and see what they say.

As long as you're in a culture which shuns condoms and fetishizes dry sex to the point of using sand and other dessicants during the act, then yes, it does protect somewhat.

[John]

Mad Scientist,

Getting an STD in the day and age of drug resistant gonorrhea is kind of a big deal. And herpes never goes away.

[Mad Scientist]

Take it away, Frank.

[nicole]

No one gets STDs "because" they didn't get circumcised. It's not a fucking MMR vaccine, and STDs are...sexually transmitted.

You won't find me saying "the government" should get involved in anything. I don't think there's anything anyone can do about problems involving parents and their small children anyway. I just think it's wrong to cut babies when you don't really have to, in a way that will never go back to how they originally were.

[Randian]

No one gets STDs "because" they didn't get circumcised. It's not a fucking MMR vaccine, and STDs are...sexually transmitted.

This is like saying no one gets STDs because they didn't wear a condom.

[nicole]

The effectiveness of no-foreskin vs. condom is...pretty different.

[Auric Demonocles]

So are you against ear piercings for little girls, too?

(I am, but for the purely selfish reason that I am against all piercings due to my view of them as unattractive)

[nicole]

So are you against ear piercings for little girls, too?

Yes. Unless the little girl is old enough to ask for them.

[Coeus]

Yes. Unless the little girl is old enough to ask for them.

agreed

[John]

No one gets STDs "because" they didn't get circumcised.

Did you RTFA? I would say people most definitely get STDs who wouldn't otherwise if they are not circumcised. Otherwise why do the costs go up?

[nicole]

Circumcision is one factor that reduces risk of infection, but by nowhere near the amount that other safe sex practices like using condoms or getting tested together with partners does.

[Auric Demonocles]

So because it's not the single strongest factor it doesn't count?

[Coeus]

So because it's not the single strongest factor it doesn't count?

No, it's simply not compelling enough of a reason to risk accidently cutting off someone's dick without them getting a say in the matter. And that's if you leave principles out of it entirely.

[Stormy Dragon]

If your kid is getting an STD before they're able to consent to a circumcision, they've got much bigger problems than not being circumcised.

[VG Zaytsev]

Here's my deal: if you have a kid, you are forcing it to live. That is something you can never take back.

You may want to reconsider that premise.

[John]

Yes and those people are called parents. Parents control their children's medical decisions.

[Apatheist ?_??]

No, I'm suggesting they're not moral agents.

No, infants aren't.

Wait, your argument is that abortion is ok because fetuses aren't moral agents. You admit infants aren't moral agents either but it's not ok to circumcise.

If you distinguish between infants and fetuses for some reason other than moral agency why bring it up in the first place?

[nicole]

Well, I would go to my "irremediable" argument above. I don't think libertarians are serious enough about the problem of young humans not being able to give consent and (normal) older humans needing to consent to anything in order for it to be moral. Everyone just kind of says "oh well parenting, been doing it for millennia, blah blah."

Pro-lifers might take the "irremediable" issue to suggest that you shouldn't be able to abort, because that's harming a fetus irremediably (child, whatever you want to call it--I differentiate because one is fucking inside you and the other isn't). Others consider being born the irremediable harm, though. If you abort, you avert all harm before the moral agent is ever brought into existence (assuming, of course, no "soul" or similar; and yes, you could also do this via infanticide).

Anyway I just think the most important thing, if you are going to reproduce, is to do as little as possible that would be irremediable for the child. Like I said above, to some extent, everything is irremediable--what you feed the kid, what language you teach it first, etc. But you can still minimize how much of this you're doing. You don't have to cut off someone's foreskin most of the time. You also don't have to have a second kid before the first one is old enough to consent to living with a new baby.
...

[Fluffy]

You also don't have to have a second kid before the first one is old enough to consent to living with a new baby.

Ummmm...what the fuck is this Andrew Gold shit?

Don't like having a sibling? Move the fuck out.

[nicole]

Well, Fluffy, this is what I'm saying. Why do we think it's okay to make a kid live with someone they didn't consent to live with? Would we think that about an adult? Why are more people not concerned about this as parents?

I mean, obviously the response is "parents make the rules, blah blah," but that's why families are so often oppressive social structures. I guess part of what I'm saying is, I don't see how libertarianism can operate within the family environment, and for most people that seems to be okay, but I find it troubling.

[Fluffy]

You apparently feel that even though parents are literally providing all of the sustenance and shelter without which children would literally die without compensation, children should still be in the position of making demands about basic life decisions like how many people get to be in the family.

In other words, you're completely insane.

Now I guess I see where you're coming from on the circumcision issue, too.

[nicole]

I realize it's a minority position, Fluffy, but thanks.

[Auric Demonocles]

In other words, you're completely insane.

I was sympathetic to her argument, even though I disagree with it, until she said you should ask the kid's permission to have another kid. WTF is that? Does that mean that if the kid asks for another brother and you don't want one, you have to do it anyway?

[Stormy Dragon]

Are their any limits to what parents can do with their minor children? You seem to be basically arguing that children are chatel slaves until they reach majority.

[Fluffy]

If it's my house I'll bring in hobos from the street if I want to, and if you don't like it get the fuck out.

[Apatheist ?_??]

If you abort, you avert all harm before the moral agent is ever brought into existence (assuming, of course, no "soul" or similar; and yes, you could also do this via infanticide).

So why is one ok and not the other. Shouldn't it be ok to kill an infant before it suffers the "irremediable harm" of gaining moral agency?

[nicole]

I didn't say it wasn't okay.

I'm heading out, but I really hate these discussions, just for the record. It's not some secret that I'm concerned about anti-natalism; we've talked about it before, and my concerns remain. But I'm not going around trying to convert people to David Benatar's philosophy or something, because it would be completely pointless. Sure, I "started it" because I'm anti-circumcision. Sorry everyone. I'm not trolling; I have serious concerns about this shit and I really do think they get papered over with a lot of lame talk about what you just have to do to continue the human race or something.

[Apatheist ?_??]

I don't doubt you take it seriously I'm just saying that moral agency is irrelevant to both the abortion and circumcision issues so come up with something else.

[nicole]

...

A lot of this stuff just gets the response that it's parents' job to do the best they can for their kids, and that means making decisions for them. But I think in many cases folks are taking stuff that could be the kid's decision (either at that time, or later) and making it for them instead.

[Harlequin]

A lot of this stuff just gets the response that it's parents' job to do the best they can for their kids, and that means making decisions for them. But I think in many cases folks are taking stuff that could be the kid's decision (either at that time, or later) and making it for them instead.

This. Leave the kid to make his own decision, once he's old enough, as to whether he wants his cock chopped or not. The benefits of circumcision will occur no matter when the knife is wielded. So, this is a decision which should be left to when the kid can decide for himself. Parents can only act as moral agents on their offsprings' behalf when a decision needs to be made when the child is intellectually incapable of making it, and cannot be made later. That's the case with vaccination, but decidedly not the case with circumcision.

[Pro Libertate]

I've mentioned this before, but I resent circumcision being in vogue when I was born, as it severely limits my ability to time travel back to Nazi Germany.

[Warty]

Everybody kills Hitler, dude.

[Pro Libertate]

Yeah, well, I can't. They'd kill me for being Jewish, which I'm not, not even by their wacky standards. Totally unfair, as I should have my chance to kill Hitler.

[Auric Demonocles]

Why are you showing your penis to so many men in your Nazi time travel fantasy?

[Pro Libertate]

I'm not, but I'm extremely concentration camp averse. I guess it's a phobia.

[Warty]

It's not just men he has to worry about, you buffoon. How do you know that that fetching fraulein over there isn't Elsa, she-wolf of the SS?

[Pro Libertate]

I'd be scared to even change clothes. I've seen WWII movies, I know how ubiquitous Gestapo agents were.

[Loki]

How do you know that that fetching fraulein over there isn't Elsa, she-wolf of the SS?

"You know, half of these gook kraut whores are sworn members of the Vietcong SS. The other half got TB. Make sure you only fuck the ones who cough."

[SIV]

It's Ilsa, you cultural illiterate.

[Episiarch]

The main point I was trying to make is that the stridency on this is reaching TEAM levels; not too many years ago, no one got worked up about this at all, and now we have people going absolutely batshit about it.

Because really, there's TEAM TIP, TEAM SNIP, and TEAM GET A GRIP. The last one of course being "I don't think it really matters very much whether you have or have not been circumcised".

[Randian]

TEAM GET A GRIP

I'll be in my bunk.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm sometimes amazed at how much I don't give a shit about (that others do).

[John]

I never gave the issue a thought until I heard a bunch of nuts wanted to ban it.

[Enough About Palin]

I'm with whoever it was here who said sometime ago that the last thing they needed was even more sensation at the tip of their penis.

[Enough About Palin]

BTW, I see what you did there.

[Xenocles]

"TEAM NIP"

Lacist!

[Randian]

Well if there's anything that can get us over the contentiousness of Akin it's a good old fashioned Nip the Tip thread.

[T]

What did the leper say to the prostitute?

[Randian]

He wanted to buy some arms?

No wait, that's not right...

[nicole]

Seriously, I can't decide which I hate more, abortion threads or circumcision threads.

It must be the circumcision ones, since I post to those more. Sorry everyone.

[A Serious Man]

Given that there are tangible health benefits to circumcision, and that it is logical to get such an uncomfortable procedure done in infancy to reduce trauma (don't remember mine), I'd say we should consider it well within parental perogatives like vaccinations. Calling it mutilation is silly and hyperbolic.

[Coeus]

Given that there are tangible health benefits to circumcision,

Every one of which has either overblown or the studies's results have been unpronounceable. It's not acceptable from even a purely utilitarian standpoint because of "complications". Which do happen. But hey, it's just your dick.

[Coeus]

bad auto text. Was overblown and unreproducable.

[Fluffy]

Even if the benefits are minor, there effectively are no costs.

So (while not endorsing utilitarianism) can you explain to me how something with some minor benefits but with no costs can fail from a purely utilitarian standpoint?

[Coeus]

some minor benefits but with no costs

Complications can include losing your dick. I'd put that pretty high up in the costs category.

[A Serious Man]

Complications can include losing your dick.

Unless Jerry Lewis is the rabbi I don't think that's likely to happen. That's like saying we shouldn't do surgery because there's that .01% you won't wake up.

[Coeus]

Unless Jerry Lewis is the rabbi I don't think that's likely to happen. That's like saying we shouldn't do surgery because there's that .01% you won't wake up.

A) it happens (happened to a friend of mine's kid, he just lost part of it though). It can also happen through infection.

B) don't you sign a release waiver for surgery?

[The Hammer]

You also sign a parental consent waiver for your kid to have surgery.

[Coeus]

You also sign a parental consent waiver for your kid to have surgery.

Because it's dangerous. That was my point. What's yours?

[Xenocles]

There was that rabbi who killed those babies by giving them herpes.

[Eduard van Haalen]

The parents pay the mohel and he gets to keep the tip

And all the goyim say I'm pretty fly (for a rabbi)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flcnIVDCnFA

[OldMexican]

Declining rates of circumcision in U.S. could lead to $4.4 billion healthcare bill as number of STDs soars.

You know what comes next, don't you?

Dick-stripper Panels!

[A Serious Man]

Gosh, I post one circumcision link and suddenly the whole thread is cut off.

[Killazontherun]

Holy shit, I scrolled through that. It was much like Gilgamesh, the epic too boring to read.

[Karl Hungus]

Five things government does better than you do.

("There are many ways in which the government can make better decisions with our money than we can, and there are many ways that the Ryan budget would make society worse off by getting rid of government programs. Here are five . . .")

[John]

They forgot locking people up in camps and killing people.

[Xenocles]

Hey man, give me a shot at it!

[Pro Libertate]

Let me see, um, killing people, that's one. Locking people up, that's two. Stealing shit from people, that's three. Wasting money to buy things, that's four. Oh, spending money it doesn't have, that's five.

Did I get them all right?

[Auric Demonocles]

Did I get them all right?

Taking over half of something then blaming the remaining problems on the half you haven't taken?

[Pro Libertate]

There six! Wow, maybe I've been too hard on government.

[A Serious Man]

FEMA is an example of the government doing something better than private entities? I'm not sure Red Cross would agree.

[Virginian]

Shit, Wal-Mart brought more tonnage of relief supplies into Katrina then the government did.

[Randian]

I like the catch-all: "All The Little Things"

Because heaven forfend anyone point out that government could cut 1 trillion or so if we stuck to this guys' other four.

[OldMexican]

Economics assumes people are rational actors in the market, but we know a lot less about how to manage money than we think.

"However, government bureaucrats do know better because..."

... they're not people.

One of the hottest academic disciplines to arise in the last few decades is behavioral economics, which explores the ways in which people behave irrationally.

But government bureaucrats don't, seems I would have to believe.

there are arguments against relying on charity as a basic social safety net.

People don't give enough [sic]. Americans spent about 1.9 percent of their disposal income on charity in 2011.

"Enough is what I say it is. Not you."

It does bother me a little that publications would let a person that has absolutely no thinking skills wahtsoever to publish such drivel that should make even the staunchest of liberals feel ashamed.

[Mad Scientist]

That mindset is offensive in so many ways. Bureaucrat A over there knows more about securities trading than you do, so we're going to have Bureaucrat B dictate what kinds of foods you can eat. If Bureaucrat B makes the wrong decision it's because he plays for the wrong team and everything will be fine once we have another election and get a new team in office. In the meantime, you may not, under any circumstances, make decisions for yourself because, just like Bureaucrat B, you might make the wrong ones.

[Randian]

And how is "National Defense" not on the list?

[VG Zaytsev]

Does Addressing Poverty mean increasing it?

And the last one - All the Little Things means the list is really a million things, not five.

[Randian]

Because otherwise government might get cut a buck or two, and we can't have that.

[OldMexican]

The previous fall, voters had rejected a plan to raise their own taxes to cover a shortfall in revenues.

"Why those stingy bastards! Imagine, not wanting to part with their money!"

What's hillarious is just how righteous the author fancies herself to be. She's here to expose our sins because we're too blind and stupid. Economics says so -- says she.

[Randian]

Somebody should do the math on this, but if you just froze government spending at current levels, how long would it be before the debt just inflated away?

Maybe 100 years or so?

[Loki]

The Onion piles onto the "let's rip on Todd Akin for being a moron" bandwagon. I'm not sure a mocking a parody is really necessary though. He pretty much did that himself.

[Xenocles]

I wonder if The Onion has ever just written a legitimate news article and let it compete unadvertised with its satires.

[Enough About Palin]

Awesome Kitty Pic:

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/stati.....918-98.jpg

[Warty]

I WILL DESTROY YOU, HUMAN

[CE]

Oh wait, I've got it! Change the "NHS" to "INHS" and make it the "IterNational Health Service"! Then when we need medical care, we can all go to London and watch the cool touristy stuff while we wait for that medical care.

[Alack]

And then if they go from doing all-around health to just covering x-rays, we could find out if we're one of their kind!

[daltonallan]

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