Pacifists Quietly Seize the Moon

Stars and stripes forever? Not quite.

Gizmodo describes the state of the flags American astronauts left on the Moon:

While the $5.50 nylon flags are still waving on the windless orb, they are not flags of the United States of America anymore. All Moon and material experts have no doubt about it: the flags are now completely white. If you leave a flag on Earth for 43 years, it would be almost completely faded. On the Moon, with no atmospheric protection whatsoever, that process happens a lot faster. The stars and stripes disappeared from our Moon flags quite some time ago.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

That's why Bush was so hot to return. But since that's not happening, we have no choice but to change the American flag from stars and stripes to tabula rasa.

[The Late P Brooks]

This necessitates a return to the moon, ASAP!

[Whiterun Guard]

But France never even made it into orbit.

[Mo]

So we're waving a white flag on the moon?

[Ice Nine]

Yeah - for when the Chinese get there.

[Res Publica Americana]

Covenant or PRC -- which would you prefer to battle?

[Auric Demonocles]

What makes a flag turn neutral ... Lust for gold? Power? Or was it just sewn with a heart full of neutrality?"

[Whiterun Guard]

Moononites, duh.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Apparently, the terrorists have won. Our colors do run.

[sarcasmic]

But, but, but when the vibrations from the passing spacecraft on Independence Day filled in the footprints, I seem to recall that the flags still had color!

[Whiterun Guard]

The spirit of Randy Quaid put that there.

[Auric Demonocles]

Well, that was over 15 years ago. Plus the spaceship thrusters probably blasted it with radiation to make it fade faster.

[Almanian's Evil Twin]

also, fried chicken

[NotSure]

Anyone know what would cause a flag on the moon to fade faster because there is no atmosphere, is the the higher radiation levels ?

[WWNGD?]

The sun makes everything fade... and Romney is wealthy.

[DaveSs]

Ultraviolet radiation

We have some protection from UV here on Earth from our atmosphere. On the moon, no such thing.

[Loki]

I suspect there might also be some fading caused by increased out-gassing. Due to the lack of atmospheric pressure, materials tend to outgas a lot faster in space. Although the UV is probably the main culprit.

[some guy]

Yes. Radiation levels are much higher there because the moon has negligible atmosphere. Our atmosphere prevents most high energy radiation from reaching the surface. Still enough gets through to make most materials fade over time. On the moon, this process would happen much faster.

[temmseee]

Sounds like a pretty solid plan to me dude.

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[temmseee]

Sounds like a pretty solid plan to me man.
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[RedDragon6009]

It's 2012. Shouldn't we have the technology to just burn a picture of Obama on its surface with a laser?

[sticks]

http://i.imgur.com/weKK0.jpg

[RedDragon6009]

That's scarier than I imagined.

[Auric Demonocles]

We've got to nuke the moon.

[Bardas Phocas]

The old-fashioned nation-state can't survive in space.
Now autonomous collectives are whole different story.

[temmseee]

Sometimes you jsut have to jump on it man.
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[VG Zaytsev]

While the $5.50 nylon flags are still waving on the windless orb,

How does a flag wave on the moon?

[Tulpa Doom]

There's no air resistance so the twisting motion they used to plant it is still making it swing back and forth.

[Auric Demonocles]

The friction must have made that wear off a long time ago.

[sarcasmic]

That motion would still be transmitted to the post that is stuck in the ground, and that little bit of friction would have brought the thing to a halt a long time ago.

[Auric Demonocles]

I think you've got a little too much friction.

[Tulpa Doom]

Unless Buzz Aldrin put some lubricant into the hole first.

[sarcasmic]

I think you're confusing the moon for your ass.

[Bardas Phocas]

Fans.

[some guy]

And it's a good thing too. At this point it's probably so brittle it would crumble upon application of the slightest force. I mean, think about how brittle nylon ropes get when you leave them out in the sun.

[Pro Libertate]

Simple. Natives twist it every hour.

[Tulpa Doom]

All Moon and material experts have no doubt about it: the flags are now completely white.

The citation of anonymous "experts" itself makes me suspicious. If it's really a simple matter of no atmospheric shielding, you don't need a Moon expert to figure it out. I assume by "material experts" they mean materials scientists, though they normally don't deal with fabric. The real question is whether fading is entirely caused by radiation, which I'm not convinced of at all. It could have something to do with humidity or contact with air. It would probably depend on the type of fabric and the type of dye used. Maybe the material experts can shed some light on this.

[Auric Demonocles]

Why don't we just photograph it with a telescope and then we won't have to deduce anything? It's like how no one measured the Antarctic ice.

[Tulpa Doom]

I don't think our telescopes have that much precision (plus the viewing angle would be almost vertical).

I vote we send Justin Bieber there to check it out in person.

[Auric Demonocles]

I was thinking with an orbiter around the moon, but I don't remember if we have any active satellites. And you're right, if we do they are probably only able to pick up much larger structures.

I'm amazed to discover the Hubble only has a resolution on the order of hundreds of meters at the Moon.

[Pro Libertate]

There have been some high-definition photos snapped by the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter. The resolution doesn't appear to be high enough to resolve the color of the flags, but it's not orders of magnitude, off, either.

[DaveSs]

They've actually made short animations using images taken at different times of day where you can see the shadow of the flags moving on the surface.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm going to move to the Moon, claim the Sea of Tranquility, and start a theme park.

[Lord Humungus]

with hookers and blackjack?

[Pro Libertate]

Only on the lunar reservation.

[Auric Demonocles]

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own theme park, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the park!

[Auric Demonocles]

Damn it! I spent too long decided which quote to go with! Why didn't I choose 'Guh! It's the happiest place orbiting Earth. "? Then it would have worked even if I was second!

[some guy]

We're whalers on the moon,
We're whalers on the moon,
But there ain't no whales,
So we tell tall tales,
And sing a whaling tune!

[Tulpa Doom]

The stuff the Hubble is usually looking at at long distances is huge and bright, so yeah.

[Auric Demonocles]

Yes, but also much, much farther away.

[DaveSs]

You'd need a ridiculously large telescope to see anything that small on the moon from Earth, the mirror would need to be about the size of the Pentagon.

Oh, and you'd have to stick it in low earth orbit.

[Auric Demonocles]

Or you take a picture from the moon and you don't have to have big telescope at all.

[Pro Libertate]

Say, that kind of thinking. . .that's not allowed anymore.

[DaveSs]

You didn't actually say where you wanted this telescope though.

That said, even a telescope in lunar orbit with more magnification than you get from LRO would still have a hard time taking a clear picture since the satellite is moving very fast.

[Pro Libertate]

Okay, we're all agreed. Someone needs to go to the landing sites and snap some photos.

[Auric Demonocles]

Fry, look around! It's just a crummy plastic flag and a dead man's tracks in the dust. Now get in here before you freeze.

[Pro Libertate]

So, the Moon has finally surrendered to American arms. Time to go and start a giant colony. In fact, let's terraform the Moon right now.

[Auric Demonocles]

Sorry mister, but I'm no Bender. I'm just a simple farmer. Name's Billy West.

[Auric Demonocles]

Damn it! Where's the edit button?

This was supposed to go to your "Natives twist it every hour" post.

[sloopyinca]

Who cares about the flags. Are we still able to receive mail on the moon or have some interplanetary toughs knocked the mailboxes into orbit yet?

[Pro Libertate]

Let's just make something clear--you will be banned from Apollo World when it opens.

[sloopyinca]

I'll only give a shit about being banned if Carl Weathers is somehow involved.

[Pro Libertate]

Of course he is. Just who do you think plays Armstrong in the reenactment?

[Auric Demonocles]

We cemented them in place.

[Loki]

the flags are now completely white.

IOW, they're now surrender flags. Kind of appropriate, on many levels.

[Clich? Bandit]

the flags are now completely white.

So the moon is racist?

[Brandybuck]

Blame it on the whalers

[joshua corning]

$5.50 nylon flags

Wait nylon?

Yeah I am pretty sure the whole thing is gone with only the frame still standing.

Hydrocarbons really do not do so well exposed to unfiltered sunlight in a vacuum...plus when the sun sets complete darkness in a vacuum is no picnic for hydrocarbons either.

[some guy]

But they have pics from a lunar orbiter showing the shadows changing based on time of day.

I'm sure the flags are very brittle, but they also have very little force acting on them. If we tried to roll them up and bring them home, they would probably crumble. As long as they are stationary they will probably be able to last awhile.