Batman Shooter News Links: Injured Victim Shares with Reddit, NYPD Beefing Up Movie Security, Brian Ross Apologizes

Lots of speculation, to be expected, in the wake of the shooting at a midnight showing of Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colorado. 12 are dead and at least 38 injured. Here's some news:

• Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both cancelled campaign events today, with the president making remarks about the shooting in lieu of a campaign speech in Florida. "If there is any take away from this, it's that life is fragile," the president said. "Our time here is limited and it's precious."
• Time puts together some details about the alleged shooter, 24-year-old James Holmes, currently in police custody. Public records don't show him holding a concealed carry permit and he has no criminal record.
• One of the dead, Jessica Redfield, had previously been at the scene of the mall shooting in Toronto, leaving the food court before a gunman opened fire.
• One of the surviving victims, grazed by a bullet, shares his injuries and story on Reddit.
• The New York Police Department will be sending police officers to showings of Dark Knight Rises over the weekend "[a]s a precaution against copycats and to raise the comfort levels among movie patrons in the wake of the horrendous shooting in Colorado," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said in a statement. The premier of Dark Knight Rises in Paris, meanwhile, was cancelled.
• ABC News apologized for Brian Ross' reporting that the alleged shooter Jim Holmes could've been a Tea Party member just because one of dozens of Jim Holmes' in the Denver area happened to join an online Tea Party forum.  "An earlier ABC News broadcast report suggested that a Jim Holmes of a Colorado Tea Party organization might be the suspect, but that report was incorrect," ABC News said in a statement. "ABC News and Brian Ross apologize for the mistake, and for disseminating that information before it was properly vetted."

Comments

[John]

He looks very satisfied in that picture. Not the ball of crazy that the Giffords guy was.

[Clich? Bandit]

That is his UCD photo.

[John]

I thought it was his mug shot.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

At UCD, it's hard to tell the difference.

[WTF]

I don't know, I see some crazy in those eyes. But maybe it's just because that's what I'm expecting.

[CE]

No, it's definitely there.

[tallyho]

I see crazy in the "I was one of 50 wounded" Reddit guy.

And hope - hope for fame, recognition, and charity (i.e.loot) like many others with victim mentality. Either that or I, at 65, totally do not get posting this stuff online!

[Suki]

Satisfied but swarthy. More ammunition for the rabid griefer speculation.

[Proprietist]

Supposedly he had his hair dyed and face painted like the Joker. We'll get our shot of crazy soon.

[Clich? Bandit]

HA...Bloomy sucks and so does the news. I swear. I can't take a full day of this.
I am going into "the cave".

[Brett L]

Is that what you call running porn on all 3 monitors?

[Alack]

I read that as "all 3 minotaurs", which was way more awesome.

[Sudden]

Clearly, we had too much fantasy (note the double entendre) in the last thread.

[Brett L]

Sadly, I only have one minotaur, and he doesn't have a STEVE SMITH mode.

[Clich? Bandit]

My minotaur's name is Warty Jr. He works out.

[Episiarch]

Well, this is going to be a nonstop orgy of bullshit for days. Yay.

[Clich? Bandit]

yeah, i am going to unplug the TV...it is on in the background.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

The Open Championship (British Open) is on ESPN. So far, it's been quite entertaining.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Tiger's chip in from that bomb crater on 18 was insane.

[John]

Our only hope is that he turns out to be some kind of OWS nut. That will turn the media coverage off real quick. Otherwise it is going to be days and days of unending bullshit.

[CE]

I've heard that rumor already -- that he was a member of OWS and didn't like the way they were portrayed in the movie. Of course "left-wing wacko" doesn't fit the media narrative, as evidenced by ABC News reflexively blaming the Tea Party.

[wareagle]

what level of stupid is required to believe that there is an American political movement afoot that favors mass murder? It's like people say things without first stopping to think about what they are going to say.

[Ted S.]

The police unions are a political movement.

[VG Zaytsev]

what level of stupid is required to believe that there is an American political movement afoot that favors mass murder?

Not stupid, just believing that the far left is serious about their rhetoric.

[Mr. FIFY]

ALL unions are political movements, Ted.

[Dr. Kenneth Noisewater]

I just had a healthy movement a couple hours ago. It was potent.

[Pro Libertate]

It doesn't matter, anyway. Most of the Stupifiers are idiots, but I don't think they're calling for random mass murder. Or any kind of murder.

One nutbag means one nutbag. Not much else.

[John]

Of course it doesn't matter. If this guy and an OWS it doesn't mean anything other than he was a nut who happened to join the OWS. My only point is that if he is a member of OWS, the media will act responsibly and not try to make it about politics and drop the whole damn thing.

[J_L_B]

I remember in the days and weeks after the OKC and Atlanta Olympic Park bombings the media was tripping over itself to link these bombings to radical Christian who want to turn this place into Jesustan. That quickly died down when it was determined that Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph were agnostics at most.

Although, even years later, Rosie O'Donnell kept insisting on The View that McVeigh was some sort of Fred Phelps-Westboro Batist Church guy, who bombed OKC because we failed as a nation to show proper deference to the Christianity. She did that to show equivalence to people who flew planes into buildings in the name of their deity.

[John]

Rudolf is routinely held up as an example of a Christian terrorist even on these boards by people who should know better.

[Killazontherun]

Free shit brigade only wants free shit, for the most part, there have been violent episodes, but unionist and anarchist can be arguably considered outside agitators, but for the most part, violence takes effort and some initiative and they don't have anything to do with that.

[Killazontherun]

We have the guy's name? Now we need to google it + tea party. We're serious and professional, after all. We have standards and reaping scorn at every opportunity on anti-establishment types is part of that obligation expected of us from our, uhm, establishmentarian pay masters.

[Proprietist]

The as yet unsubstantiated rumors are that he's a member of Occupy Black Bloc, supposedly a violent offshoot. And a registered Democrat and Obama supporter.

Totally unsubstantiated by this point, but the Daily Mail was reporting it as have other marginally accurate news sources.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Those do look like Spock ears.

[Episiarch]

Vulcans don't go on shooting sprees...unless it's pon farr time! He's a Vulcan in heat!

[Fist of Etiquette]

You think you can make that definitive statement in the J.J. Abrams universe?

[Episiarch]

Are you kidding? If Abrams doesn't go hog wild with the pon farr, I'll be stunned.

I'm still waiting for a reboot of Lost with Star Trek characters.

[Killazontherun]

Reboot? If they do that they'll just be tempted to untangle that mess, and without the utter plot confusion it just would not be the same.

[Brett L]

Your use of the word 'plot' implies they might have considered ever having one.

[Sudden]

I think it works better within the Star Wars diaspora. Hurley as Jabba. Done.

[Killazontherun]

He looks like a space joo Ferengi too me.

[WTF]

One of the dead, Jessica Redfield, had previously been at the scene of the mall shooting in Toronto, leaving the food court before a gunman opened fire.

I had no idea Final Destination was a documentary.

[ant1sthenes]

I know that correlation doesn't prove causation, but...

[Walt G]

The shooter Didn't have a concealed carry permit? Boy, he's in trouble.

[Ed]

Could be a felony.

[WTF]

Hey, those permit laws keep the wrong people from carrying guns.

[$park?]

And buying them.

[Drake]

He's screwed, he'll never get a permit now.

[playa manhattan]

TMZ is reporting that he used an AR-15, a Glock 40, and a Remington 870. Of course they described the AR-15 as a semi automatic assault rifle "capable of firing off hundreds of rounds per minute"...
Weird, my AR-15 can't do that...

[Suki]

Stop taking meds and let the nervous twitch return.

[Dr. Kenneth Noisewater]

Doesn't matter, Cinemark corporate policy prohibits guns. So clearly this could not possibly have happened. I mean, what kind of monster disobeys a sign?

[John]

Federal authorities maintain that he was not on any watch list that would indicate that he was dangerous, and the incident is not believed to be associated with any act of terrorism.

clearly everyone needs to be on a watch list.

[Fluffy]

The way he smirks make me think "Yeah, this guy thought he was the Joker."

[Killazontherun]

Roll would have been better with Peter Stormare. Ledger was unforgettable, but it is more iconic than fun.

[Sudden]

Nicholson already did the fun angle. The Ledger nihilist psychofreak was the inevitable direction that character needed to go.

He put Nicholson's mindless "fun" to absolute shame.

[Killazontherun]

I utterly forgot about Nicholson. Seriously, that is one of the most overrated films.

Hedger really did remake that roll. Then it is a shame Burton didn't cast Stormare! He was still an unknown until Fargo, unfortunately, probably still doing theater in Europe in '89.

[Syd Henderson]

The word is role, unless he was into making pastry.

[John]

According the CBS New York, you are right. He had dyed his hair red and claimed to be the Joker when arrested.

[Loki]

But the Joker had green hair. Is he color blind or something? Also the joker wouldn't have told the cops his apartment was booby trapped. He would have used the ensuing chaos caused by the explosion to escape... somehow.

[Mike M.]

Well, at least ABC had enough decency to apologize.

Seriously, shame on you, Brian Ross. I used to have some respect for you as a serious reporter, but not after what you just did. I expect behavior like that from a lowlife guttersnipe like Paul Krugman, but not from you.

[Raven Nation]

No kidding:

"before it was properly vetted" or, how about "before it was vetted at all."

AND
"apologize for the mistake." Was it a mistake? Or just the ongoing narrative that Tea Party = violence.

[Drake]

It was an overpowering case of wishful thinking.

[carol]

Okay, fifty people are shot and the first thing ABC does is check the local Tea Party outfits to see if the name is a match? Saying that it was "an overpowering case of wishful thinking" is being way too nice. And why the hell would a Tea Partier shoot up a movie theater? Doesn't even make sense. Whatever the guy's political leanings turn out to be this is a case of nutwad going off.

[wareagle]

this is what happens when the desire to be first trumps the duty to be right. Journalism is not nearly as complex as those in it pretend. It begins with facts...

[Whiterun Guard]

Oh I only wish it was the desire to be first

[Name Nomad]

My god... all those teenagers who do the "FIRST POST" thing in any forum grow up to be newsmen.

[Anonymous Coward]

I would love to see a defamation suit arise from this mistake.

[Sudden]

Yes, that would be justice.

[Stormy Dragon]

I don't think you can defame a group, only individuals.

[Loki]

Then I'd say Jim Holmes of the CO Tea Party organization has a pretty good case, since he was called out by name.

[Brett L]

He still needs firing, pour encourager les autres.

[ant1sthenes]

Is he responsible for personally vetting the stories, or does he just read them off and hope that the people writing them aren't totally incompetent or dishonest?

[Fluffy]

His creepy pointy ears give him a Romulan vibe.

I'd say Vulcan, but he's smiling and everything.

[Fluffy]

Oh, somebody beat me to the Vulcan observation.

[Mr. Soul]

In a different reality I could have called him "friend".

[fish]

Love that episode!

[Ptah-Hotep]

"An earlier ABC News broadcast report suggested that a Jim Holmes of a Colorado Tea Party organization might be the suspect, but that report was incorrect," ABC News said in a statement. "ABC News and Brian Ross apologize for the mistake, and for disseminating that information before it was properly vetted."

Is there a case of libel here? Since they reported something that defamed someone.

[Pro Libertate]

I think so. The retraction would only help--maybe--to reduce the damages. Pretty reckless behavior.

[Mike M.]

I'm no lawyer, but the original report was probably just weasel-worded enough that there's no case. As you say, it was still reckless, and despicable.

[Pro Libertate]

I don't think that matters. They had no evidence at all--except for a name that a good number of people in the area share--that this guy was the shooter. They can weasel word all they want, but speculating on that shitty basis without bothering to do any research doubtlessly harmed this guy's reputation. He may be dealing with some crap after this, as if having the same name wasn't bad enough. Little different analysis for public figures, which isn't applicable here.

Also, and I'm reaching deep into the memory hole for this one, I believe falsely accusing someone of a crime (even using weasel words) is per se defamation. If so, that would mean (I think), that the plaintiff need not allege or prove specific damages.

[John]

Yes. And the guy was most certainly not a public figure. So they they can't hide behind the reckless disregard standard.

[Mike M.]

Thanks for the info. If he truly does have a decent case under the law, then he should absolutely sue the hell out of ABC. My impression is that these kinds of cases are very hard to win though.

[Pro Libertate]

I didn't hear what was actually said, but this sounds pretty egregious. Being per se defamation on top of the victim not being a public figure, I think ABC will be writing a check. Maybe without litigation actually ensuing.

[Sudden]

The threat of suit should be enough to extort a settlement offer.

[wareagle]

a couple of reports say the real tea party Holmes is significantly older than the shooter and has had to do some reputation defending. I suspect we'll hear from some others in CO with the same name.

If the same libel standard applies to public figures, the Romney camp would have filed suit over the 'felony' charge.

[CE]

That's why assassins are always referred to by their full names: Lee Harvey Oswald, John Wilkes Booth, etc.

[generic Brand]

Barack Hussein Obama.

[Ptah-Hotep]

I believe falsely accusing someone of a crime (even using weasel words) is per se defamation.

That was my thought as well. And from Lawfirms says this:

In the context of libel or slander 'per se' means defamation that is intrinsically damaging. In other words, there is no requirement in these cases for 'damage' or injury to be established, as proof of the fact that one of these statements has been made is sufficient. Broadly there are four categories to defamation per se; accusing someone of a crime,...

I hope he sues them as it seems he has a excellent case.

[robc]

And chance this crosses a line from civil to criminal?

[Pro Libertate]

Is there such a thing as criminal defamation?

[robc]

I dont know. Im an engineer/brewer. I will leave that up to the lawyers. Thats why I asked.

[Ptah-Hotep]

April 20, 2012 ? The International Press Institute (IPI) today welcomed news that the State of Colorado will decriminalise libel.

Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper on April 13 signed a bill to repeal the state's criminal libel law, effective Sep. 1.

[Pro Libertate]

Huh. That's funny, as I thought criminal libel was dead. Apparently not.

[sloopyinca]

effective Sep. 1.

That said, I doubt it would apply since the libel was made from a studio in New York (I think) instead of from inside Colorado's borders.

That said, if it is broadcast inside Colorado, could someone at each network affiliate that played the clip be held criminally liable for airing it? Civilly?

[sloopyinca]

I only meant to say "that said" once.

That said, they are both still good topics of discussion.

[Pro Libertate]

Federal removal aside (for diversity), I suppose the case could be filed under Colorado law, since the victim is there and the damage was done to him in large part there. Not my area, so I don't know how likely it is that Colorado law would apply.

[tallyho]

But wait... The name John Holmes is NOW a public figure's name. Ain't it likely there's some kind of loophole that a slimy dedicated media lawyer could use to defend ABC..? Just sayin.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Libel? All he said was that this guy whom they identified *might* be a murderer, or he might not be. Gosh, nothing offensive about that!

[Pro Libertate]

That doesn't work, especially when the victim isn't a public figure.

[Whiterun Guard]

Is your sarcasm detector in for repairs, PL?

[Pro Libertate]

I figured he was being sarcastic, but a lot of people operate under the misapprehension that "alleged" or similar words are some perfect defense to defamation suits. Wrong!

[Spoonman.]

IANAL, but I hope that Jim Holmes sues the crap out of ABC.

[Episiarch]

If he's smart, he will. He has a real case.

[Abdul]

This just in, Batman shooter Jim Holmes has the largest cock in porn....oh wait, I'm being told that's a different Holmes.

We regret the error.

[Mr. FIFY]

Now you gone and made Tony have a sad, Abdul.

[Kaptious Kristen]

I was doing some reading on Richard Jewell and it seems he settled with most of the media that covered him. The only case that was still in litigation, with the Atlanta Journal Constitution as the defendant, was dismissed after Jewell's death, so not sure what, if anything, that means.

ABC should be writing a check, like, now. And Jim Holmes should be threatening the wrath of Zod on them.

[fish]

I'd request that the head of Brian Ross be delivered with the check held firmly in his teeth. Only then would the wrath of Zod be satisfied!

[carol]

I understand that the guy himself has reason to move forward with a libel suit but it was not Jim Holmes, the person, that ABC set out to malign. Their intent was to malign the Tea Party. It is a far greater offense to claim that any orgainization that doesn't fit the liberal media narrative is a breeding ground for homicidal nutwads.

[wareagle]

but the Tea Party is public and would get no protection, not even against nuclear levels of stupid. Holmes, meanwhile, was named and specifically named. That he turned out to be the wrong Holmes shows what happens when you go on the air half-assed.

[Warty]

So, I dunno about you guys, but I like kittens.

[Episiarch]

You're seriously fucked up.

[WTF]

The overload of cute just made my screen melt. My wife will die when I send her that one.

[Hugh Akston]

Penguins ftw.

[WTF]

Shit, that's funny.

[Warty]

You think you built that nest, but you didn't. Somebody helped you by stealing rocks from it.

[WTF]

Somebody helped you by stealing rocks from it.

So apparently penguins have government, too.

[$park?]

HA! That's awesome.

[Voros McCracken]

Do you have any good recipes for them?

[tallyho]

My first thought was "Don't sit down!"

[Broseph of Invention]

Do you know what we make me feel safest? A theater encouraging everyone with a carry permit to bring it to the movie. Cops at large premieres are going to be the new normal.

[Broseph of Invention]

*It being a gun, not the permit.

[CE]

And metal detectors and bomb scanners and TSA agents....

[Loki]

"I just need to check inside ya aaaassshole."

[affenkopf]

There was nothing that stopped the theater goers in Denver from carrying their weapons.

[A Serious Man]

I've heard the theatre was a "gun-free zone". Not sure if that was a county law or just the theatre's private policy.

[Episiarch]

I don't know about you, but I utterly ignore anything like "no guns on premises". My body is my premise and I'll carry whatever the fuck I like on it.

[affenkopf]

SO you don't respect private property rights?

[Episiarch]

You don't get to tell me what I get to wear, sorry.

[affenkopf]

Private property owners shouldn't be able to ban nudists?

[Episiarch]

Oh, you can ask me to leave, and I will. But I don't give a shit if you put up a sign, I'll still have my gun on me and you won't know. If you somehow find out and tell me to fuck off, I will.

[robc]

Oh, you can ask me to leave, and I will.

Thats the KY law on concealed carry.

Posting means shit.

If you ask someone who is carrying to leave, they must, or they are trespassing.

[Fluffy]

Ummm...sure I do.

No shirt no shoes no service.

You gotta wear a tie in here.

Excuse me ma'am, no obese women in leotards.

No hoodies.

I can do this all day long.

[The Hammer]

"No hoodies."

Racist.

[$park?]

"No hoodies"

Apparently this is one of the signs they DID have at the theater.

[affenkopf]

Do you have a source for this?

[The Hammer]

I've been to the theater, and it's conspicuously marked as a gun-free zone, and carrying concealed on private property in Colorado where the owner forbids it will cost you your permit at the least, so I doubt anyone was as stupid as Episiarch's ITG persona up there.

[WTF]

I've been to the theater, and it's conspicuously marked as a gun-free zone

Well, that worked out well, no?

[robc]

Colorado's law is stupid.

KY does that right.

[wareagle]

and those "gun free zone" signs are sure to be ignored by someone willing to commit mass murder. It's like these people refuse to think.

[Restoras]

Thinking is hard and requires you to face ugly truths about humanity, and decide to either deal with it now or later.

Unthinking is easier.

[Broseph of Invention]

I'm not saying they couldn't carry, I just think it would be a nice message from the movie theater to any potential shooters.

[ant1sthenes]

Would be interesting if shall-issue states used this as an excuse to pass private security regs that require that any public accommodation that restricts state-legal arms on the premises must provide armed security (at least 1 guard for every X people present, sort of like fire safety regs). Might put a stop to this bullshit, plus the role-reversal of the usual suspects on regulation would be hilarious.

[generic Brand]

You know what happened. Someone yelled "Fire!" in a crowded theater and this guy thought it was an invitation. So now with the anti-gun advocates ramping things up, expect the 1st amendment to come under fire too.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Brian Ross was off his game after being saved by the police in a skiing accident:

"Three Clermont police officers saved a man's life Sunday when they responded to report of a Jet Ski accident, and found the victim unresponsive and with no pulse, Capt. Charles Broadway said.

"The officers arrived at the boat ramp at Min-neola Avenue and West Avenue at about 6 p.m., and found Brian Ross incapacitated after being ejected from his Jet Ski after it stuck the bottom in a shallow area of Lake Minneola, Broadway said."

http://www.southlakepress.com/localnews/072012cop

Or perhaps he's too busy with his farm blog in the UK:

http://www.fwi.co.uk/blogs/cro.....ahead.html

[Abdul]

Police officers finally have a chance to do some good by brutalizing a citizen, and they fuck it up by saving him.

[B.P.]

Okay, I laughed.

[Loki]

He's also stressed out from dealing with his status as a registerd sex offender in SC.

HT: commenter "Jeff" from an earlier thread.

[Number 7]

Coming soon to a theater near you, the TSA and full body scans.

Matter of time before EVERY public gathering will be subject to shakedowns.

[Ed]

Ugh.

[Fluffy]

The kid's a PhD student in neuroscience.

Yup. The Joker. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[John]

That means he has at least a B.S. degree. Usually mental illness shows up before people get out of college.

[WTF]

Maybe it did and it was overlooked.

[John]

Usually this kind of crazy prevents you from functioning. See the Giffords shooter.

[WTF]

Doesn't it usually come on gradually, and then escalate to the point of a psychotic break? If so, he might have been considered strange and irritating, but not crazy.

[Mike M.]

Some reports seem to indicate that the guy's own mother knew right away that he was guilty. That tells me that she has known for a while now that he's off his rocker.

[ant1sthenes]

That sounds more like Strange or Scarecrow or someone like that. Joker was always pretty much just a criminal who was really really good at crime.

[MOFO.]

To people really do copycat crimes? Can anyone think of examples of this really happening or is this some made up media fear?

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Excellent question, Motherfucker. I will Google for such occurences, and report back here shortly.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Here is a link to a Florida State University webpage discussing copycat crime theory.

There is an extended analysis on the page. It looks like the copycat phenomenon is non-existent. Just another angle for the media to perpetuate a story cycle. And also a way for police unions to extort more overtime for the boys in blue. I guess the increased sense of living in a Police State is an added bonus.

I couldn't find anything else substantive. Just alot of anecdotes that a kid who killed his parents did it because of Natural Born Killers. And the Va Tech kid was trying to one-up the Columbine kids, etc.

Urban legend.

[John]

Don't let science get in the way of a good story.

[Fatty Bolger]

Of course it's real! A thousand police drama episodes can't be wrong.

[Fluffy]

Or maybe the Scarecrow. Maybe his doctoral research was gases to make you into a crazed killer criminal.

[Abdul]

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Good blog post:

"Brian Ross was arrested in Maricopa County, Az....

"Could this be the same Brian Ross, the ABC News reporter..."

http://thecommonconstitutional.....-arrested/

[CE]

I'm surprised he still had a job with ABC News, if he's the same Brian Ross who arrested on suspicion of murder in St. Albans, Vermont:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.....pool-death

[CE]

who WAS arrested, rather

[Kaptious Kristen]

It's totally this Brian Ross - lookit that rapsheet!

[John]

Pause for two beats and pay Prizzi's Honor-style homage to the ruthless killing machine that is the combined White House-Chicago operation.

Mark Halprin yesterday in Time. I blame Mark Halprin's violent rhetoric for all of this.

[B.P.]

From the Time article:

"Although public records indicate that Holmes did not have a concealed weapons permit, he was carrying an assault rifle, shotgun and two pistols on him at the time of his detainment, according to the Associated Press."

I will be surprised if the guy was actually carrying an assault rifle. I will not be surprised if every news outlet gets every single detail about the killer's weapons wrong.

[Brett L]

There were earlier reports of a "long gun". I'm kinda surprised, but I guess if you go to a batman premiere and there are people in costume, maybe you can get away with it.

[B.P.]

One of the local news channels here (I live in Denver) reported that the shooter got in a side door when he banged on it and someone let him in. Others have reported that access was gained through a side door, but I only heard the "someone opened it for him" part on one channel. I suspect the reporters were merely repeating whatever 12th-generation rumor popped into their ear pieces, though.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Possibly--the Denver Post was reporting that he got in through the "emergency exit" of one of the theaters, which is a pretty common way of sneaking your buddies in. If that actually happened, you have to wonder if he knew one of the theater workers that let him in or just some random person.

[Paul.]

One of the dead, Jessica Redfield, had previously been at the scene of the mall shooting in Toronto,

Mall shooting in Toronto? Toronto, Canada? How is that possible?

[WTF]

Since they can't carry guns in Canada, the Toronto Mall shooting is obviusly just a right wing meme.

[Proprietist]

LOL

[rts]

There has been a spate of gun violence in Toronto, including some gang bangers firing into a crowd, killing 2 and wounding 25. The mayor wants to banish anyone convicted of a gun crime, while the Ontario attorney general is pushing for a handgun ban.

I'm accelerating my purchase of a few handguns, though it will make a bit of a hole in my budget.

[wareagle]

yup..nothing stops gang bangers like gun bans. By the way, where would the convicted be banished to? It's life imitating art - you are voted off the province. .

[Michael Ejercito]

Prohibition sure stopped Al Capone in his tracks.

[Paul.]

The premier of Dark Knight Rises in Paris, meanwhile, was cancelled.

It's good to know that the Parisians are as retarded as Paul Schell's Seattle.

[Suki]

That Paris news seems old already.

[Hugh Akston]

The National Weather Service has issued a severe weather warning for the whole of the United States.

A Category 5 Idiot Storm is expected to last at least a month, with pockets of Category 6 idiocy over the NY Times and LA Times buildings, and the entirety of Washington DC.

Expect sustained outrage, unpredictable speculation, and blame gusts of up to 200 mph with each unsubstantiated factoid that emerges from the area surrounding Aurora, CO.

The NWS advises all US residents to avoid news, commentary, and political sites for the foreseeable future. For your own safety, please limit your internet activity to work, shopping, and pr0n.

[Dr. Frankenstein]

*golf clap*

Well played sir.

[Paul.]

Ok, you can be in my club.

[JW]

You forgot the F5-level Tornadoes of Sinister Ideological Mendacity. Seek shelter!

But, yes, well played, sir.

[CampingInYourPark]

"Suspect Claimed To Be Batman Nemesis 'The Joker'"
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/20.....-shooting/

[WTF]

Why so serious?

[John]

Damn. I hate it when Fluffy is right.

[Mike M.]

Yeah, Fluffy called this one pretty early in the day, didn't he? Well done, sir.

[John]

ABC news needs to give the Fluffster Brian Ross's job.

[nicole]

Not that I can take Fluffy's credit, but "crazed fanboy" was my first thought as well, though I assumed he would be "playing" the villain in this movie rather than the last one...

Can you believe dude boobytrapped his apartment too? I want to hear something about how he was actually arrested. The CBS story says he didn't resist, but that's all.

[John]

It seemed likely. The fact that he choose that movie at that time was just too much of a coincidence.

I wonder if this will hurt the movie's box office. I would feel weird going to see it tonight. Can't really say why but I would.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

I would feel weird going to see it tonight. Can't really say why but I would.

Probably because of all those people that were killed at last night's show in Aurora. It's okay John, they are called emotions, and you can have them. 😉

[Sudden]

My initial thought was Bane. Joker is too crazy to bother with the body armor. Although the casual way he allowed himself to be taken into custody hints at some Joker-like qualities. And the revealing of the booby-trapped apartment seems joker-like, and a bit of a diversion from something else. I wonder if he has something else up his sleeve (forgive the bad pun). If he truly believes himself Joker like, he must.

[Loki]

I wonder if he has something else up his sleeve (forgive the bad pun). If he truly believes himself Joker like, he must.

That's assuming he's actually as clever as the Joker was, which I highly doubt. Just a pathetic wannabe.

[Sudden]

Jesus, I saw that movie on shrooms when it came out and still never made the leap to calling myself the Joker.

[John]

Is it as dark and depressing as the reviews say it is?

[Sudden]

I was referring to the previous installment with the Joker.

[Fatty Bolger]

"Soothing words are nice, but maybe it's time that the two people who want to be President of the United States stand up and tell us what they are going to do about it, because this is obviously a problem across the country," Bloomberg said.

Bloomberg is such a shit.

[nicole]

Yes, the obvious problem of movie-theater shootings across the country...

[wareagle]

dovetailed by the equally obvious problem of willingness to commit mass murder. Particularly in areas where the gunman knows no one else will be armed.

[Scarcity]

So we can start blaming Heath Ledger, right?

[Timrek]

Joker's hair is green. Sounds more like he was Ronald McDonald. I blame fast food and oversized soft drinks.

[Loki]

ABC News apologized for Brian Ross' reporting that the alleged shooter Jim Holmes could've been a Tea Party member just because one of dozens of Jim Holmes' in the Denver area happened to join an online Tea Party forum.

Of course any rabid anti Tea Party left-tards who already seized on the alleged TP connection will likely ignore this. Months if not years from now there will still be people who believe that this nut and Jared Loughner were both crazed right wing tea-baggers.

[John]

How does that not get you fired from a network news gig?

[Restoras]

It would get you fired from a network news gig that took news seriously. Since when does ABC News take news seriously?

[KPres]

You kidding? They told him to say it. Who do you think dug up info on this Tea Party guy?

[sloopyinca]

Look, this is simple. The guy is either:
1. A nutball
2. A relative of Katie Holmes that was brainwashed by the Scientologists and went on a rampage after his SeaOrg handlers purposely fed him his unlock code earlier in the day in an effort to force Katie back to Tom so as to keep Suri on schedule to become a full "clear" by completing her OT VIII training, thus taking over the Tradewinds, which could then serve as the mother ship for when daddy Tom takes on Xenu in the final battle for the souls of mankind.*

For crying out loud, people. This man was trying to save the fucking world.

[tarran]

The question is whether he was a Yankees Fan or not. My guess is that he is. All the Batman villains liked the Yankees.

[JW]

Yankees fans are usually easily identfied by the fuhkin' Y that's imprinted on every piece of property they own. Check the gunstocks for the logo.

[fish]

Damn Sloop we're sorry! How could we have known?

[Loki]

A relative of Katie Holmes that was brainwashed by the Scientologists and went on a rampage after his SeaOrg handlers purposely fed him his unlock code earlier in the day in an effort to force Katie back to Tom so as to keep Suri on schedule to become a full "clear" by completing her OT VIII training, thus taking over the Tradewinds, which could then serve as the mother ship for when daddy Tom takes on Xenu in the final battle for the souls of mankind.*

Hilarious. I think I'll go with this explanation, it makes about as much sense as anything else. Except for the random nutbar explanation. That's just crazy talk.

[DingHooo]

Typical NYPD always a day late and a dollar short.

http://www.Full-Anon.tk

[PS]

Everyone's favorite ex-Reasonite "proves" that it would've made absolutely no difference if someone had been CCW.

[fish]

Nice job Weigel. To recap....a 70 year old guy chases two armed thugs out of an internet cafe with no casualties save for the perpetrators but concealed carry wouldn't have helped in a movie theater?

Only one solution! Time to tear down the theaters...for the chilrunz!

Stupid Fucker!

[John]

Weigel is to reason what criminal ex college football players are to college football program. When some guy who used to play for whatever state gets arrested for beating his girlfriend or selling crack he is always listed as "former whatever state football player..." Weigel is the same kind of running sore on Reason. Every time he writes something stupid, which is nearly every day, Reason's name gets drug through the mud.

[RedDragon6009]

Everyone's favorite ex-Reasonite "proves" that it would've made absolutely no difference if someone had been CCW.

Weigel did not say it "proves" that it would not have made a difference. What he said was, "The fact that Colorado has these laws is evidence that they don't stop all massacres."

Big difference. Next time try not to be so disingenuous.

[JW]

"The fact that Colorado has these laws is evidence that they don't stop all massacres."

"Do you see this strawman I made here? Even IT couldn't stop the massacre!"

[JW]

"The fact that Colorado has these laws is evidence that they don't stop all massacres."

"Do you see this CCW strawman I made here? Even IT couldn't stop the massacre!"

[PS]

No one was in an ideal position to pull a Dirty Harry on the man shooting at him/her in a panicked theater.

First of all, who's talking about an ideal position to pull a "Dirty Harry". How about a fighting chance to take a shot when Holmes dropped his shotgun and calmly pulled another gun? If just ten people had been CCW, then there seems to be a very good chance this could have been averted with a much lower fatalities. If anyone is being disingenuous it is you. Weigel's just being a sleazy fact-twisting fuck, per his MO.

[RedDragon6009]

I'm not agreeing with Weigel. I'm just saying that if you're going to try to discredit the man then at least have the balls to be intellectually honest about it. And if you're going to call him a "sleazy fact-twisting fuck" then try not to be a weasely word twisting douche while you're at it.

[PS]

Alright, point taken. He didn't say it proves that a CCW would've made no difference.

[Proprietist]

You can't definitively prove it, but he's right in the sense that the dude had a kevlar vest, riot helmet, shrouded in tear gas and hundreds of frantic people running around. I'm not saying someone couldn't have gotten off a good shot, but this guy came prepared for such contingencies. This was a well-planned attack by a very smart criminal.

The thing is, 95% of the time, the shooter is not heavily armored and an armed bystander could have made a difference.

[PS]

Yes it's supposition and this guy was definitely prepared, but Weigel is using this to dismiss Gohmerts speculations that a CCW person could've made a difference.

"GOHMERT: Okay. It does make me wonder, with all those people in the theater, was there nobody that was carrying a gun that could have stopped this guy more quickly?"

Weigel: Louie Gohmert, R-Tex., was actually invented by liberal blogs in order to put ridiculous statements in the mouths of Republicans.

I didn't see anything ridiculous in what Gohmert said. Perhaps a few CCWs wouldn't have made a difference, but they were very unlikely to make things any worse.

[RedDragon6009]

I agree with you that the more CCWs there are in any given crowd, the more likely that psychos like Holmes would have been taken out with perhaps fewer casualties as a result. I also agree that Weigel is a panty waste. But you can't deny that your previous statement was essentially equivalent the crap he writes on a regular basis. That's not fighting fire with fire; that's stooping to his level and doing your argument and yourself a disservice.

[RedDragon6009]

But you can't deny that your previous statement was essentially equivalent to the crap he writes on a regular basis.

[PS]

I do deny it. I had the right intentions!

[RedDragon6009]

You made me smile with that one... thanks.

[tallyho]

Dragon, the term is actually "panty waist" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pantywaist 2. Slang A boy or man who is considered weak or effeminate

But I do like the idea that he (Weigel) could be a waste of panty...

[RedDragon6009]

*Face-palm*

[R C Dean]

Here's what Wiggle says (to spare you giving slate any clicky):

You've got dark, panic, an enclosed space, and some kind of painful gas. No one's in any position to get the jump on the shooter. No one has a place to hide from him -- he has a perfect vantage point of every seat. And he's wearing protective gear.

So, I think the answer for Gohmert is: No. No one was in an ideal position to pull a Dirty Harry on the man shooting at him/her in a panicked theater.

Props, of course, for the "Dirty Harry" cheap shot.

As for the reasons why it couldn't have been done:

Dark: Enough light for the shooter is enough light to shoot by. Especially if he is between you and the screen.

Panic: Other people's panic is irrelevant if our doughty citizen isn't panicked.

An enclosed space: What difference does that make?

Painful gas: Uhh, that would be smoke, last I heard? Hardly debilitating. Might make it a little tougher, granted.

No one can get a jump on him: Like Wiggle could possibly know that. Duck down behind the seats, maybe?

Etc.

[R C Dean]

As for the body armor:

Getting shot while wearing body armor that actually stops the bullet (which is by no means all body armor) is more or less like getting hit with a baseball bat. It hurts, from what I can tell, like hell. Probably disorienting, especially if you've restricted your own field of vision with a gas mask.

I'd rather my target wasn't wearing armor, of course, but the fact that he was wouldn't change my reaction one bit.

[Lost_In_Translation]

It depends on the total momentum of the bullet. A .22 might sting, a .45 could break a rib. A larger grain bullet could actually kill you just from internal injuries. A howitzer shell will leave a nice torso sized remains.

[PS]

As for people panicking, I think most of them would freeze, hit the deck or make for the exits. I doubt many were obstructing line of fire to the shooter or running around like this.

[CE]

And body armor usually stops at the neck.

[R C Dean]

What a blessing to the Obama campaign that a bunch of dead people have knocked "You didn't build that" off of the news cycle.

And if some apparatchik accuses me of being a mass murderer on national TV, so that I have to disconnect my phone line due to the ensuing deluge of threats and abuse, I'm not going to be satisfied with an apology. I want a fucking termination, and a big check. I hope Tea Party Holmes sues ABC's ass.

Here's what they said:

"There is a Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colorado, page on the Colorado Tea Party site as well, talking about him joining the Tea Party last year," Ross reported.

He added: "Now we don't know if this is the same Jim Holmes, but it's Jim Holmes of Aurora, Colo."

A winning case? Couldn't say. Good enough to bring? Oh, yeah. Good enough to get a fat settlement? I'd take that bet.

[Fatty Bolger]

I think they'll settle. Quickly.

[fish]

Do you think Jim will have the settlement check by close of business today?

[RedDragon6009]

Is it too late to change my name to Jim Holmes and move to Aurora?

[Lost_In_Translation]

there should be an opening soon...

[Proprietist]

I disagree. They never stated it as a fact, merely a possibility. It was wrong to do, but it was not an accusation so it can't be slander.

[R C Dean]

That goes to whether ABC wins. If I'm ABC, I'm not excited about defending this case at all, because it brings nothing but bad publicity.

[RedDragon6009]

Regardless of whether ABC would win such a case, I think they would ultimately come out losing big due to the fact that their grade-school reporting would be brought to everyone's attention for an extended period.

[Archimedes]

At some point we are going to have to look ourselves in the mirror and ask what have we become; be it in our homes, our communities, our countries or our planet. Collectively we bear responsibility for creating a society that glorifies violence. It is too easy to just write this off as another psychotic acting on some strange impulse. We need to re-evaluate our collective values. Mostly what we think is important, is not.

[Lost_In_Translation]

We'll collectively beat you down and collectively, we'll feel better.

[Graphite]

It is too easy to just write this off as another psychotic acting on some strange impulse.

Primarily because that's exactly what it was.

[CE]

Why, because murder rates aren't falling fast enough? They're back to 1950's levels, according to another story on Reason today.

People are in far more danger driving to the theater than they are of being a victim of a similar attack.

[Archimedes]

The NRA can talk all they want about how "guns don't kill people ... people kill people" but at the end of the day if the guns weren't manufactured in the first place, the point would be moot.

Since no court seems willing to put a logical legal interpretation on the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution, it should just be outright appealed.

In every tragedy there is a silver lining - and if this catastrophe brings us any closer to banning recreational ownership of assault rifles and handguns in the US, then maybe something can come of it.

It's just too easy to get a hold of a gun.

[tarran]

Why do you want my daughter to be vulnerable to rapists, Archimedes?

[fish]

Fuck that Tarran...T o n y has a new puppet account! You can smell his smug through the intertubez!

[Virginian]

Molon labe. Since you're Greek, you should know that.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Like a genie in the bottle, its too late. We can't even successfully ban narcotics. Our success in banning guns will be even less.

While its lovely to think we'd all be happier if our most dangerous weapon was a wiffle ball bat, the reality is that the supply/demand curve of guns can only fractionally be affected by a ban and then only will affect those interested in obeying the law (ie: not psychotic nutjobs).

[R C Dean]

at the end of the day if the guns weren't manufactured in the first place, the point would be moot

Jeebus. And if the space aliens would just give us their damn universal replicators already, we wouldn't have any hunger or homelessness.

Of course, a little history would make you aware of the fact that pre-gun societies were quite, quite violent, and of the additional fact that such societies were highly hierarchical and tended to be oppressive, because guns truly are the great equalizer.

[Lost_In_Translation]

But my imaginary society of one-armed whiffle batters with tiny man physiques never hurt nobody. However, hurt feelings did run rampant.

[Auric Demonocles]

Since no court seems willing to put a logical legal interpretation on the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution, it should just be outright appealed.

Yeah, it's really hard to to figure out how "shall not infringed" can possibly mean "can't be banned".

[Lost_In_Translation]

in fringed - new definition

the act of bringing fringe ideas into the mainstream...

thus, shall not in fringe means shall not be used as a way to justify citizen carry

its newspeak, get with it!

[PS]

but at the end of the day if the guns weren't manufactured in the first place, the point would be moot.

If you learn to write without such tired old clich?s you'll sound like less of a hack regurgitating stuff.

In every tragedy there is a silver lining

Aarrgh, also every rose has it's thorn and every night has it's dawn.

[Michael Ejercito]

Then we should disarm police forces, so they do not kill people like Sean Bell, Patrick Dorismond, Pedro Navarro-Oregon, and Kenneth Chamberlain

[CE]

It's just too easy [for the bad guys] to get a hold of a gun.

And you want to make it harder for the good guys to defend themselves? Why?

[Lost_In_Translation]

Would nutjobs stop shooting the innocent? If you have to go crazy and shoot and kill a bunch of people, atleast go to Congress. Be a man and take on some hard targets.

[Bronwyn]

Who's going to come out and blame The New Yorker?

[Lost_In_Translation]

Wait,

I just realized. The media missed its chance to blame bath salts!?!

[fish]

Well no faces were eaten so I don't see a bath salts angle here!

[Sudden]

Give it a few days.

[Sudden]

And I should add it may not be bath salts, but as a 24 y/o college student, there is some drug he's ingested in the past year.

[db]

There is a possibility this guy is an Anders Breivik scale nutcase who also has a political agenda. Considering the way Breivik played the Norwegian court system as a megaphone for his twisted message, I wouldn't be surprised if the authorities are trying to figure out how to downplay any political angle.