House Bill 85 passed on first reading by a voice vote. It would create a state-run government continuity task force, which would study and prepare Wyoming for potential catastrophes, from disruptions in food and energy supplies to a complete meltdown of the federal government.
The task force would look at the feasibility of Wyoming issuing its own alternative currency, if needed. And House members approved an amendment Friday by state Rep. Kermit Brown, R-Laramie, to have the task force also examine conditions under which Wyoming would need to implement its own military draft, raise a standing army, and acquire strike aircraft and an aircraft carrier.
The aircraft carrier is a nice touch. I suppose if it's a big enough disaster, Wyoming might become a coastal state.
Update: Brown's bizarre amendment was excised, but the bill was nonetheless defeated. The Star-Tribunesuggests that his odd insertion was "probably a pill meant to poison" the legislation. One hopes.
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examine conditions under which Wyoming would need to implement its own military draft, raise a standing army, and acquire strike aircraft and an aircraft carrier.
Like seceding from the Union? *checks airfare to Wyoming*
All the rest of you that keep saying this country sucks because a "space alien Muslim time traveling terrorist" is president, go with him. You don't want to be here, and we don't want you. So just go.
And you can't take the National Guard with you if you secede. Those folks swore an oath to the US Constitution - and so, by God, THAT'S the one they will ignore while pretending to follow it if they have to choose.
Seriously, these guys disaster preparedness does not mean natural disaster - they are concerned about financial and political disaster, the collapse of the national government. We have been talking a long time about how perhaps the national government is so far gone on the taxing and spending and regulation that there simply is no way we will ever reform things through the normal political process. Perhaps there are some in state government who are feeling a little uneasy themselves.
Well, to be fair, Cheyenne *is* home to F.E. Warren AFB, which controls 150 Minuteman III missiles. That would be enough to engender plenty of fear if some nutcases could somehow gain control of said nukes.
Obviously, in the event of disaster, their standing army will make an all-out run for Sea-Tac, securing a port, and a resource zone comprised of Minnesota, Idaho, and Washington.
They will purchase the Enterprise and it will drift in the Pacific. Eventually, people will call it "the raft" as Asians attach small rafts to it in the Far East and hitch a ride to America.
The aircraft carrier is to police the territorial waters of the Wyoming-Idaho greater prosperity sphere, after the annexation of the failed states of Washington and Oregon.
Exactly. Why is Reason being so condescending toward states that lose faith in the federal government? Reason has exposed federal wrong-doing and insanity for decades.
Punch-Drunk Love, which proved that Sandler can be a good actor, is becoming a more and more distant memory. What the hell is Sandler doing with himself? Why can't he make maybe one crap comedy a year, rake in a bunch of dough, and then focus on doing some good movies for a change?
It's part of the "new" corporate think in Hollywood these days. Even though they still have more money than God, studio execs are scared by the fact that their profit margins aren't as assured as they used to be. Things like the Blu-ray/DVD, Video Games, Netflix, and even piracy have seriously eaten into their market share. It's caused a "siege" mentality around the studios, so they've become VERY risk adverse.
Why take a risk on some niche film that MIGHT make a profit when you can just make another Sex and the City and GUARANTEE a profit? It used to be that a studio would crank out a bunch of movies they KNOW they'd make a bundle on so that way they could finance the potential classics that reputations and classics are built on.
With Hollywood being so skittish, it's easier to dig out a "tried and true" formula rather than take a gamble like they did with the original Jaws.
Nah, it'll just kill most of the people within a 600 mile radius. Most of the rest of the human race will survive the initial explosion, but a significant number will die of famine caused by the resulting volcanic winter.
hence the terraformed moon/planet where we can still agricult.
The guy said that "the only way the human race will be saved" implying that it'd kill all of us, not just a significant percentage. Given that we survived a similar event 75,000 years ago extremely basic stone-age technology, I'm fairly confident we'd survive as a race if Yellowstone went off tomorrow.
GOOD is generally a bad plan unless the problem is local; in a widespread SHTF situation, usually it's better not to bug out. And right now I'm living in the place I'd be bugging out TO (family farm), so there wouldn't be much point.
That being said, I do have a very basic BOB on hand.
THAT counts as sentient?! Hell, I'm prepped out for a couple weeks of partyin' like it's 1899, but that jackass thinks he's set to re-enact the Alamo. Both sides.
I cannot come to terms as to why Wyoming does not have the right to look into the possibility of acquiring these powers. Nothing human made lasts forever, and our federal government's current powers are certainly not exempt from this fact.
Eh. What does right have to do with it? If their citizens don't mind how they spend the tax money, okay. But this seems like a particularly egregious waste of funds. If they have that much room in the budget, cut taxes somewhere.
"Wyoming would need to implement its own military draft, raise a standing army"
Isn't this like, prepper statism? This Republican backed bill doesn't seem to be all that liberating.
Even the idea of using its own currency does not seem any better than the federal fiat situation we have now, especially presuming they would clamp down on private/competing monies.
I've been a "prepper," meaning we stay prepared for disruptions, since 1994. We lose power from time to time, mostly from fallen trees brought down by hurricanes, freezing rain or snow. Some of these outages have lasted over a week and have been over broad swaths of the state. The only violence I have seen from all this was a (rather wimpy) fist fight in a gas station parking lot on day two of the Irene outage. Otherwise, people here have always been very kind and cooperative during disasters, especially once you offer them coffee and tea.
In MOST disasters people USUALLY don't act like dicks. Think of Fukushima, the Indian Ocean Tsunami, or the Northridge Earthquake. Your average citizen understands that acting like a jackass when Mother Nature shits all over civilization will probably be more trouble than it's worth and makes you a pretty lousy human fucking being.
But what about Katrina you ask? First, it was only in New Orleans that people lost their minds. Second, the goddamn media was having a field day reporting every little rumor they heard as the gospel and scaring everyone shitless. And Third, that place had long been a hell hole that had just been waiting to boil over and the Hurricane was just the catalyst it needed.
Not to mention, the people acting like dumbasses were small in number and most of their crimes were limited to looting. Fuck, the AUTHORITIES probably caused more mayhem than the CITIZENS did!
I believe countries that are de facto dictatorships generally have weak social institutions, and therefore looting, rioting, etc. is more prevalent than collective calm/solidarity. Given that the people suffer for years under direct tyrannical rule, violating others' rights just doesn't occur to them when SHTF.
Do note that in Japan and the US the expectation is that once the disaster is over, people will resume living a comfortable lifestyle. So you have more to lose by threatening other people and putting your own life at risk.
Not so in Haiti, Somalia, etc. An opportunity for looting might be a big break for someone living in those shitholes.
perhaps because respect for property rights is not dependent on wealth, but rather social structure/culture?
I've been to areas in Thailand, Indonesia and last week, Sri Lanka where the tsunami hit and the thing you notice is how respectful of their own and other people's property those places are. poor but house proud would be the best description.
I assume that individual ownership leads to mutual camaraderie, as help/protecting your neighbour is also a benefit to you.
Military drafts and governmental monopolies on currency? You have a chance for some backdoor liberation here, and this is the shit you're proposing, Mr. and Mrs. Wyoming? Come the fuck on, you can do better than that.
I respectfully disagree. Decentralization is a game-changer. Even if a statist state seceded or nullified, challenging the national government would blaze the trail for freedom-friendly states to do likewise.
Yes, Wyoming seems to be preparing to continue functioning as a state even if the national government collapses. And you wanna bitch that that's not good enough???? At least they are prepared to admit of the possibility that DC may collapse of it's own weight.
And "Mr. and Mrs. Wyoming" isn't far wrong - last time I checked, the population of Wyoming was about 12. Considering that at least 2 of them will be required to operate the aircraft carrier, that leaves at most 10 people running the whole state. I can't think of a better chance to effect a libertarian state.
We need to encourage Wyoming to pursue this thought experiment: What if there were no national government? Wyoming is treating this as "disaster preparedness", but I think we should get them to examine the thing more closely, weigh the pros and cons, the gains and the losses, and admit that no national government would not be a disaster for Wyoming. Neither would it be a disaster for Montana or the Dakotas or Idaho. For starters.
What is with these Western mountain states breeding paranoid lunatics?
Don't you mean "libertarians"?
And they don't breed them, they move there.
Ever seen a western mountain state in wintertime? You pretty much *have* to be a "rugged individualist" to survive a Wyoming winter - you definitely need to be one to hang around long enough to survive a second Wyoming winter.
And yes, my point was "why wait for a disaster to get along without the national government?" and as fin said - Why is Reason being so condescending toward states that lose faith in the federal government? Reason has exposed federal wrong-doing and insanity for decades.
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Serious question -- what handgun would you all say is ideal for an experienced shooter but one new to pistols? I grew up on shotguns and bird hunts in England and Spain, but now that I live in the US I want to try my hand at long rifle and handgun stuff.
If you've got normal sized hands, get a .38 or 9mm. The recoil is pretty manageable. I don't have a favorite. I've fired something in that caliber from just about everyone, and its hard to find a really shitty 9mm in the intermediate price range from a major manufacturer (someone on this board will disagree, but I've not shot a really shit gun in 9mm semiautomatic). I'm not a Glock lover, but they seem to be well liked. Find a range that rents pistols near you and try out 3 or 4 in that caliber.
check the cost of ammo - unusual sizes or high powered rounds get really expensive really quick
A heavy gun is more controllable in firing, but can be tiring to carry *but* a small light gun suffers more from felt recoil.
Both of those I learned from experience - I have a .44 lever action that chews through money (and that cowboy shooting stuff is even more expensive than regular rounds)
and a Kelt-Tec P-32 with which I can't hit anything reliable more than 10 feet away because the thing jumps so hard.
I would recommend a .45. Glock, Kimber, S&W. Most major brands are reliable so look for what fits your hand the best. Hers a good article on getting a proper grip. If you have small hands you may need to comprise a little on your grip but the less you have to do that the better.
Also, a lot of guns have .22 conversion kits. That's a good way to practive cheap. You'll still of course want to practice with your designated caliber. You can practice with cheap ball ammo but whatever ammo you choose for sel-defense, you'll want to sometimes practice with that as well mainly to make sure it doesn't cause your guns any feed problems. Some guns are picky with ammo, particulary compact models. For .45, I find Remington Golden Saber 185gr JHPs to feed well in most guns and is more than adequete for self defense.
I shot a friends 9mm Glock (I think it was the G19) and that was a sweet shooting target pistol.
I owned a Beretta 92 (9mm) and it was a fairly nice shooting gun as well, if you kept it very clean. Had a tendency to jam if it got a little dirty. I traded up to a model 96 (.40 cal) for more knock down power, which it has, but wasn't nearly as accurate as the 92.
If you are going to carry there are more considerations. The problem with the above is they are so big they are a pain in the ass to carry concealed, which means they are relegated to my nightstand. Two days ago I bought a Ruger .380 LCP with a CT laser sight. It's so tiny it fits in a pocket and I now take it pretty much everywhere. You don't want to shoot it all day at the range, but it's a nice piece of mind. Knockdown power is nice, but if it's too big to carry, you probably won't.
My advice on teh GUNZ, which you are obviously free to ignore:
First, get a .22 so you can shoot it a ton without going broke. My philosophy is, why have a gun if you're not going to shoot it? (I won't make a *positive* recommendation, but I would definitely advise you not to buy a Sig Sauer Mosquito; I really liked mine right up to the day I discovered the pot-metal slide had cracked. Hardly what one would consider "normal wear and tear" but they wouldn't warranty it because I bought it used. They are also notoriously finicky about ammo, and have lots of jamming problems.)
After that, a 9mm is the next cheapest thing to shoot.
Very true, and we had the "choosing a .22" discussion the other day with Epi and others chiming in. It was very enlightening. I personally like the S&W 22A in pistols and of course the venerable Ruger 10/22 in rifles.
Ruger Mk III eats any ammo you put in it (even Remington) but I've heard it's a real pain to maintain.
Beretta's are relatively idiot proof (especially the M9) and usually pretty cheap. Buddy of mine has the Model 96 which is a .40 but the company sells a .22 barrel/magazine change out which he uses when he wants to spend all day at the range. Takes less than a minute to switch back and forth.
I heard that Beretta stopped making those a while back, and while there are third-party options none of them are particularly reputable.
According to this thread the price for used conversion kits manufactured by Beretta is above $400, which is more than a MkIII or 22A would cost for the entire gun.
If you are new to pistols - start with a .22. Depending on where you are, find the nearest gun range that rents pistols and try several of them, talk to the guys at the range about what fits your hand, what you can afford, what you want the pistol for, etc.
If you want to start a flamewar, just go to any gun forum and ask "What is the best handgun to have?".
It is WAY nicer to shoot than a .357 or .44 magnum (significantly less recoil/noise/drama), and still has pretty good stopping power, if you are thinking home/personal defense as the end product.
True about the .45, but a shot gun is way better for home defense. If you want drama, just let the guy who's broken into your house hear you chamber a round. He'll fill both legs if he's got even half a brain.
Of course, you may take out half your living room if you actually pull the trigger, but details.
Your average unarmed or knife-wielding burglar is probably going to run away as you described. But if it's a seriously bad type who is himself packing heat, that sound may do little other than give away your position and the fact that you're also armed.
That said, I still like shotguns for HD. Never hurts to have a sidearm though.
True to all, but if you have the rare misfortune to face someone badass or crazy enough to take on a shotgun then that is EXACTLY the kind of weapon you'll need!
Yeah, but then you'd be a bad-arse, hard-bitten cop who's seen everything and kill the intruder after an intense gun battle that ends up with you and him locked in melee.
Suddenly there's a shot and you both freeze! OMG, who took the bullet?
And a second later the intruder slowly slumps to the floor dead.
True about the .45, but a shot gun is way better for home defense.
.223 carbine. Seriously. Go google .223's penetration after going through several layers of drywall vs. buckshot. I like brassfetcher, but the old boxotruth is fun too. You'll be surprised at how few vs. buckshot it does. Bullet selection is probably vital to the above; I'd expect the various 70 grain offerings and above to motor happily through drywall, etc.
In any event, rifles/shotguns are just a lot easier to aim than pistols, while providing a lot better stopping power. No reason not to have some of all of the above, of course.
Though a 357 revolver loaded with 38 Special is a dream. Less stopping power but stopping power is meaningless if you can't get multiple shots on target.
And before you ask why I have a 357 revolver if I'm only using 38 Spc in it, the answer is that I still have the option of using 357 in other situations (ie, taking out engine blocks, angry elks, etc).
While having a loaded shotgun sitting out in the open in your house may be normal in Montana, but in Pittsburgh you better have it hidden away if you have company. So if you have short notice of trouble in your home, the pistols and revolvers are going to be the better option.
In the entirely predictable event of runaway global warming the rebirth of the Western Interior Seaway will submerge Wyoming. But the innundation will be gradual enough that for a period of several decades Wyoming will be a strategically placed and use a fleet of nuclear powered aircraft carriers to dominate the seaway.
Fritz!!
Recall that Wyoming already has its own Free State Project.
Advanced planning assures success.
Advanced planning assures success.
APASS.
bi-curious?looking for the bilover?I'd like to recommend you an interesting place only for people like you. If you don't mind, please check out "---datebi.c/Om----" for more details.I am also a member here, lol~ just check it out, nothing lose if you don't like. Best wishes.
Well then lead me to victory!
...and an aircraft carrier.
They got some big-ass lakes they have to take care of in -- oh wait.....
Noah had a little arc
A little arc
A little arc...
Noah had several arcs, in fact. He used them to build an ark.
I've always wondered, how do shipwrights make those huge curved timbers.
*shivers*
Timbers
Steam and patience.
Bent trees.
I heard it will have wheels.
Well to be fair, the state *is covered in 20 feet of water for 4 months out of the year.
Snow
What are they? Channeling Noah?
damn! smartass beat me by ...this much
examine conditions under which Wyoming would need to implement its own military draft, raise a standing army, and acquire strike aircraft and an aircraft carrier.
Like seceding from the Union? *checks airfare to Wyoming*
Yes, please go. And take Santorum with you.
All the rest of you that keep saying this country sucks because a "space alien Muslim time traveling terrorist" is president, go with him. You don't want to be here, and we don't want you. So just go.
He should take the president and all the progressives with him as well.
Tell us why we should like Obama any more than Bush, Pishaw.
Or, die in a fire.
Don't even know who he's talking to. Since when did anyone here call the president a "space alien Muslim time traveling terrorist"?
We've called him a shithead, yeah, (which he is), but not the above.
At least he would be Interesting if that were true.
If criticizing Obama is racist... why isn't criticizing Herman Cain also racist?
I know the answer, it's just fun to ask.
Oh pshaw, Pishaw! Only paranoid conspiracy theorists think he's a Muslim.
They already have a standing Army, paid for and trained by the federal government. The Governor is in charge of it until federalized.
The secret name for this secret Army is called the Wyoming National Guard. They might have some airplanes in the Air National Guard part too.
This smacks of government redundancy.
But they don't have an aircraft carrier.
And you can't take the National Guard with you if you secede. Those folks swore an oath to the US Constitution - and so, by God, THAT'S the one they will ignore while pretending to follow it if they have to choose.
Seriously, these guys disaster preparedness does not mean natural disaster - they are concerned about financial and political disaster, the collapse of the national government. We have been talking a long time about how perhaps the national government is so far gone on the taxing and spending and regulation that there simply is no way we will ever reform things through the normal political process. Perhaps there are some in state government who are feeling a little uneasy themselves.
Yeah, and when it all comes down, The Whole Earth will fear Wyoming! Submit to our will or be bombed to smithereens by our might carrier task force.
Isn't that where Dick Cheney lives?
Jor-El you and your heirs will kneel before Mead.
Well, to be fair, Cheyenne *is* home to F.E. Warren AFB, which controls 150 Minuteman III missiles. That would be enough to engender plenty of fear if some nutcases could somehow gain control of said nukes.
Okay, sure. Now, how in hell does Wyoming grow a use for an aircraft carrier in case of the collapse of the national government?
But... but... the government will NEVER collapse! It's too big to fail!!!
Maybe it'll grow so big the gravitational forces will cause it collapse into itself in a revolution singularity?
That's called a black hole. Come to think of it, isn't all Governmental activity lately a black hole where resources disappear, never to return?
Obviously, in the event of disaster, their standing army will make an all-out run for Sea-Tac, securing a port, and a resource zone comprised of Minnesota, Idaho, and Washington.
Yeah, I would be nervous if I were Idaho or Oregon knowing Wyoming wants sea vessels.
They will purchase the Enterprise and it will drift in the Pacific. Eventually, people will call it "the raft" as Asians attach small rafts to it in the Far East and hitch a ride to America.
The Greater Wyoming Co-Prosperity Sphere.
To truck necessary things in from Japan. See below.
The aircraft carrier is to police the territorial waters of the Wyoming-Idaho greater prosperity sphere, after the annexation of the failed states of Washington and Oregon.
Washington comes with a submarine base. California and Oregon are next. Just sit off the coast and lob in the nukes.
Exactly. Why is Reason being so condescending toward states that lose faith in the federal government? Reason has exposed federal wrong-doing and insanity for decades.
http://insidemovies.ew.com/201.....r-razzies/
Adam Sandler nominated for record 11 Razzies
Punch-Drunk Love, which proved that Sandler can be a good actor, is becoming a more and more distant memory. What the hell is Sandler doing with himself? Why can't he make maybe one crap comedy a year, rake in a bunch of dough, and then focus on doing some good movies for a change?
Opportunity cost and comparative advantage.
Funny People was bearable.
No it wasn't. That movie was a shitfest of people being assholes to each other.
Sandler has NEVER made a joke, much less a funny movie.
It's part of the "new" corporate think in Hollywood these days. Even though they still have more money than God, studio execs are scared by the fact that their profit margins aren't as assured as they used to be. Things like the Blu-ray/DVD, Video Games, Netflix, and even piracy have seriously eaten into their market share. It's caused a "siege" mentality around the studios, so they've become VERY risk adverse.
Why take a risk on some niche film that MIGHT make a profit when you can just make another Sex and the City and GUARANTEE a profit? It used to be that a studio would crank out a bunch of movies they KNOW they'd make a bundle on so that way they could finance the potential classics that reputations and classics are built on.
With Hollywood being so skittish, it's easier to dig out a "tried and true" formula rather than take a gamble like they did with the original Jaws.
I suppose if it's a big enough disaster, ...
When I decide to erupt, about the only thing that will save the human race is if a planet/moon has been terraformed.
Vote Newt!
Nah, it'll just kill most of the people within a 600 mile radius. Most of the rest of the human race will survive the initial explosion, but a significant number will die of famine caused by the resulting volcanic winter.
but a significant number will die of famine caused by the resulting volcanic winter.
hence the terraformed moon/planet where we can still agricult.
.... and I will be free to gambol!
The guy said that "the only way the human race will be saved" implying that it'd kill all of us, not just a significant percentage. Given that we survived a similar event 75,000 years ago extremely basic stone-age technology, I'm fairly confident we'd survive as a race if Yellowstone went off tomorrow.
75000 years ago, man had the advantage of not being soft and weak. We'll make it, but not many of us.
And we'll all be free to gambol.
Yeah. And drugs too. And no government. It'll be like paradise.
NO ONE expects They Cheyenne Army!
Man, no one remembers us!
I'm in KISS!
What about the Dick Armey?
We never get invited for stuff like this.
WROL-SHTF is on, man!
Lonewacko's worst nightmare
shtf = shut the fuck up?
wrof = ?
SHTF = Shit hits the fan
WROL I had to look up; means Without Rule of Law, also known as SOMALIA!!`
As far as I'm concerned WROL is an AM station in Boston, SHTF is the State Housing Trust Fund and TEOTWAWKI is a primitivist wannabe death god.
TEOTWAWKI was an alien! Don't be fooled!
Thx
You're clearly not prepared to GOOD. You probably don't even have your BOB stocked and readily accessible in front of your front door.
GOOD is generally a bad plan unless the problem is local; in a widespread SHTF situation, usually it's better not to bug out. And right now I'm living in the place I'd be bugging out TO (family farm), so there wouldn't be much point.
That being said, I do have a very basic BOB on hand.
That's good. Say, do you have a guest room?
Nope.
no problem, that's what the sniper rifle is for
John's worst nightmare is a sentient snowman?
THAT counts as sentient?! Hell, I'm prepped out for a couple weeks of partyin' like it's 1899, but that jackass thinks he's set to re-enact the Alamo. Both sides.
That is hilarious! Thanks, man. I really needed the laugh today.
One of the worst things about being a prepper...are all the other preppers. >_>
He said sentient, not sapient.
Come on, he said he's not in favor of violence. The machete and Ruger P90 he's waving around in every video are just ornamentation.
"...alternative currency..."
Is it gold based?
No. Corn and livestock based.
This is a truly intriguing inquiry.
I cannot come to terms as to why Wyoming does not have the right to look into the possibility of acquiring these powers. Nothing human made lasts forever, and our federal government's current powers are certainly not exempt from this fact.
Eh. What does right have to do with it? If their citizens don't mind how they spend the tax money, okay. But this seems like a particularly egregious waste of funds. If they have that much room in the budget, cut taxes somewhere.
What taxes? This is Wyoming. It functions on a 4% state sales tax, maximum of 2% total property tax, and royalties from oil drilling.
The aircraft carrier bit is hilarious... but:
"state-run government continuity task force"
"Wyoming would need to implement its own military draft, raise a standing army"
Isn't this like, prepper statism? This Republican backed bill doesn't seem to be all that liberating.
Even the idea of using its own currency does not seem any better than the federal fiat situation we have now, especially presuming they would clamp down on private/competing monies.
Most of it is funny, just not haha-funny.
I've been a "prepper," meaning we stay prepared for disruptions, since 1994. We lose power from time to time, mostly from fallen trees brought down by hurricanes, freezing rain or snow. Some of these outages have lasted over a week and have been over broad swaths of the state. The only violence I have seen from all this was a (rather wimpy) fist fight in a gas station parking lot on day two of the Irene outage. Otherwise, people here have always been very kind and cooperative during disasters, especially once you offer them coffee and tea.
In MOST disasters people USUALLY don't act like dicks. Think of Fukushima, the Indian Ocean Tsunami, or the Northridge Earthquake. Your average citizen understands that acting like a jackass when Mother Nature shits all over civilization will probably be more trouble than it's worth and makes you a pretty lousy human fucking being.
But what about Katrina you ask? First, it was only in New Orleans that people lost their minds. Second, the goddamn media was having a field day reporting every little rumor they heard as the gospel and scaring everyone shitless. And Third, that place had long been a hell hole that had just been waiting to boil over and the Hurricane was just the catalyst it needed.
Not to mention, the people acting like dumbasses were small in number and most of their crimes were limited to looting. Fuck, the AUTHORITIES probably caused more mayhem than the CITIZENS did!
Yes, but how does that explain Haiti?
I believe countries that are de facto dictatorships generally have weak social institutions, and therefore looting, rioting, etc. is more prevalent than collective calm/solidarity. Given that the people suffer for years under direct tyrannical rule, violating others' rights just doesn't occur to them when SHTF.
Makes sense.
Do note that in Japan and the US the expectation is that once the disaster is over, people will resume living a comfortable lifestyle. So you have more to lose by threatening other people and putting your own life at risk.
Not so in Haiti, Somalia, etc. An opportunity for looting might be a big break for someone living in those shitholes.
perhaps because respect for property rights is not dependent on wealth, but rather social structure/culture?
I've been to areas in Thailand, Indonesia and last week, Sri Lanka where the tsunami hit and the thing you notice is how respectful of their own and other people's property those places are. poor but house proud would be the best description.
I assume that individual ownership leads to mutual camaraderie, as help/protecting your neighbour is also a benefit to you.
The only violence I have seen from all this was a (rather wimpy) fist fight in a gas station parking lot on day two of the Irene outage.
SOMALIAAAAAAAAAAAAoneoneoneone
Laugh all you want, I'm lobbying state senators to be nominated provisional Wyoming Admiral.
Will that be a title similar to Colonel Sanders's?
...so c'mon down to Admiral Abdul's Fried Chicken And Felafel and get yer grub on!
(It's Not A Trap!)
Also, Fried Chicken.
That's racist!
If you keep this up, there will eventually be a KFC / Popeye's schism.
"... military draft... its own currency..."
Military drafts and governmental monopolies on currency? You have a chance for some backdoor liberation here, and this is the shit you're proposing, Mr. and Mrs. Wyoming? Come the fuck on, you can do better than that.
Most revolutions are just an excuse to replace the current rulers with yourselves - all powers still intact.
I respectfully disagree. Decentralization is a game-changer. Even if a statist state seceded or nullified, challenging the national government would blaze the trail for freedom-friendly states to do likewise.
... And it took us THIS long to reference the TV series, Jericho?
No one cares, Skeet.
Yes, Wyoming seems to be preparing to continue functioning as a state even if the national government collapses. And you wanna bitch that that's not good enough???? At least they are prepared to admit of the possibility that DC may collapse of it's own weight.
And "Mr. and Mrs. Wyoming" isn't far wrong - last time I checked, the population of Wyoming was about 12. Considering that at least 2 of them will be required to operate the aircraft carrier, that leaves at most 10 people running the whole state. I can't think of a better chance to effect a libertarian state.
Considering that at least 2 of them will be required to operate the aircraft carrier...
Well yeah, but it'll be unmanned. A steer-by-Panasonic-TV plug in console, you know. Their whole military will be like that.
Duh. They'll need the carrier to go get more Panasonics.
That cactus over there? You thinking that's just an innocent little cactus, don't you?
bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha....
We need to encourage Wyoming to pursue this thought experiment: What if there were no national government? Wyoming is treating this as "disaster preparedness", but I think we should get them to examine the thing more closely, weigh the pros and cons, the gains and the losses, and admit that no national government would not be a disaster for Wyoming. Neither would it be a disaster for Montana or the Dakotas or Idaho. For starters.
You're missing the question of why there's no national government. There aren't too many options that aren't a pretty major disaster.
I think jerry's point was, why wait for a disaster. Just scrap the nat gov now, in relative peace and security, so the adjustment will be easier.
Maybe you're just a big wuss. At the outset of every revolution, people said, "We can't risk INSTABILITY!" To quote the prez, Yes we can.
What is with these Western mountain states breeding paranoid lunatics?
Mountainfolk and Hillfolk are usually a different breed from the rest no matter where in the world you're talking about!
It's the whole "cut off from most of the rest of the world" thing. Tends to breed independence.
Do Sophie Dee next!
What is with these Western mountain states breeding paranoid lunatics?
Don't you mean "libertarians"?
And they don't breed them, they move there.
Ever seen a western mountain state in wintertime? You pretty much *have* to be a "rugged individualist" to survive a Wyoming winter - you definitely need to be one to hang around long enough to survive a second Wyoming winter.
And yes, my point was "why wait for a disaster to get along without the national government?" and as fin said - Why is Reason being so condescending toward states that lose faith in the federal government? Reason has exposed federal wrong-doing and insanity for decades.
See, this is why we shouldn't allow pols to watch "Doomsday Preppers".
roomate's step-sister got paid $18728 the prior week. she works on the laptop and moved in a $426400 house. All she did was get fortunate and put in action the instructions given on this website makecash16. ?om
Did she hook up with a bi lover in the meantime?
Is that denominated in Wyoming dollars?
What is with these Western mountain states breeding paranoid lunatics?
No kidding. It's a good thing we have sensible level-headed groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center to keep track of them.
"Wolverines!!!!"
I guess it really isn't easy being Brown...
Serious question -- what handgun would you all say is ideal for an experienced shooter but one new to pistols? I grew up on shotguns and bird hunts in England and Spain, but now that I live in the US I want to try my hand at long rifle and handgun stuff.
If you've got normal sized hands, get a .38 or 9mm. The recoil is pretty manageable. I don't have a favorite. I've fired something in that caliber from just about everyone, and its hard to find a really shitty 9mm in the intermediate price range from a major manufacturer (someone on this board will disagree, but I've not shot a really shit gun in 9mm semiautomatic). I'm not a Glock lover, but they seem to be well liked. Find a range that rents pistols near you and try out 3 or 4 in that caliber.
My advice
check the cost of ammo - unusual sizes or high powered rounds get really expensive really quick
A heavy gun is more controllable in firing, but can be tiring to carry *but* a small light gun suffers more from felt recoil.
Both of those I learned from experience - I have a .44 lever action that chews through money (and that cowboy shooting stuff is even more expensive than regular rounds)
and a Kelt-Tec P-32 with which I can't hit anything reliable more than 10 feet away because the thing jumps so hard.
.38, 9 mm, or .45 acp. Or .22lr -
You can take my .41 Long Colt from my cold, dead, ground-up hands.
I would recommend a .45. Glock, Kimber, S&W. Most major brands are reliable so look for what fits your hand the best. Hers a good article on getting a proper grip. If you have small hands you may need to comprise a little on your grip but the less you have to do that the better.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/a.....oob85.html
Also, a lot of guns have .22 conversion kits. That's a good way to practive cheap. You'll still of course want to practice with your designated caliber. You can practice with cheap ball ammo but whatever ammo you choose for sel-defense, you'll want to sometimes practice with that as well mainly to make sure it doesn't cause your guns any feed problems. Some guns are picky with ammo, particulary compact models. For .45, I find Remington Golden Saber 185gr JHPs to feed well in most guns and is more than adequete for self defense.
You can shoot .38's from a .357.
I shot a friends 9mm Glock (I think it was the G19) and that was a sweet shooting target pistol.
I owned a Beretta 92 (9mm) and it was a fairly nice shooting gun as well, if you kept it very clean. Had a tendency to jam if it got a little dirty. I traded up to a model 96 (.40 cal) for more knock down power, which it has, but wasn't nearly as accurate as the 92.
If you are going to carry there are more considerations. The problem with the above is they are so big they are a pain in the ass to carry concealed, which means they are relegated to my nightstand. Two days ago I bought a Ruger .380 LCP with a CT laser sight. It's so tiny it fits in a pocket and I now take it pretty much everywhere. You don't want to shoot it all day at the range, but it's a nice piece of mind. Knockdown power is nice, but if it's too big to carry, you probably won't.
My advice on teh GUNZ, which you are obviously free to ignore:
First, get a .22 so you can shoot it a ton without going broke. My philosophy is, why have a gun if you're not going to shoot it? (I won't make a *positive* recommendation, but I would definitely advise you not to buy a Sig Sauer Mosquito; I really liked mine right up to the day I discovered the pot-metal slide had cracked. Hardly what one would consider "normal wear and tear" but they wouldn't warranty it because I bought it used. They are also notoriously finicky about ammo, and have lots of jamming problems.)
After that, a 9mm is the next cheapest thing to shoot.
I like 1911-style pistols; YMMV.
Very true, and we had the "choosing a .22" discussion the other day with Epi and others chiming in. It was very enlightening. I personally like the S&W 22A in pistols and of course the venerable Ruger 10/22 in rifles.
Ruger Mk III eats any ammo you put in it (even Remington) but I've heard it's a real pain to maintain.
Beretta's are relatively idiot proof (especially the M9) and usually pretty cheap. Buddy of mine has the Model 96 which is a .40 but the company sells a .22 barrel/magazine change out which he uses when he wants to spend all day at the range. Takes less than a minute to switch back and forth.
I heard that Beretta stopped making those a while back, and while there are third-party options none of them are particularly reputable.
According to this thread the price for used conversion kits manufactured by Beretta is above $400, which is more than a MkIII or 22A would cost for the entire gun.
Wish I had known that earlier, my local dealer/range "Shoot Straight" was selling a bunch of those kits for about $60 each a few years ago.
If you are new to pistols - start with a .22. Depending on where you are, find the nearest gun range that rents pistols and try several of them, talk to the guys at the range about what fits your hand, what you can afford, what you want the pistol for, etc.
If you want to start a flamewar, just go to any gun forum and ask "What is the best handgun to have?".
You'd think they'd try to get rid of Rawlins, Wyoming instead!
As someone who has actually been to Rawlins (shudder), I know what you mean.
Maybe they'll donate it to Utah.
Just bstay out of Big Whiskey or Gene Hackman will kick the shit out of you.
And-
I have a .45 cal 1911.
It is WAY nicer to shoot than a .357 or .44 magnum (significantly less recoil/noise/drama), and still has pretty good stopping power, if you are thinking home/personal defense as the end product.
True about the .45, but a shot gun is way better for home defense. If you want drama, just let the guy who's broken into your house hear you chamber a round. He'll fill both legs if he's got even half a brain.
Of course, you may take out half your living room if you actually pull the trigger, but details.
Depends on what kind of guy it is.
Your average unarmed or knife-wielding burglar is probably going to run away as you described. But if it's a seriously bad type who is himself packing heat, that sound may do little other than give away your position and the fact that you're also armed.
That said, I still like shotguns for HD. Never hurts to have a sidearm though.
True to all, but if you have the rare misfortune to face someone badass or crazy enough to take on a shotgun then that is EXACTLY the kind of weapon you'll need!
Yeah, but then you'd be a bad-arse, hard-bitten cop who's seen everything and kill the intruder after an intense gun battle that ends up with you and him locked in melee.
Suddenly there's a shot and you both freeze! OMG, who took the bullet?
And a second later the intruder slowly slumps to the floor dead.
I prefer Scarface/Tommy Vercetti to John Woo.
"SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND!"
BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM!
.223 carbine. Seriously. Go google .223's penetration after going through several layers of drywall vs. buckshot. I like brassfetcher, but the old boxotruth is fun too. You'll be surprised at how few vs. buckshot it does. Bullet selection is probably vital to the above; I'd expect the various 70 grain offerings and above to motor happily through drywall, etc.
In any event, rifles/shotguns are just a lot easier to aim than pistols, while providing a lot better stopping power. No reason not to have some of all of the above, of course.
357/44 also can overpenetrate.
Though a 357 revolver loaded with 38 Special is a dream. Less stopping power but stopping power is meaningless if you can't get multiple shots on target.
And before you ask why I have a 357 revolver if I'm only using 38 Spc in it, the answer is that I still have the option of using 357 in other situations (ie, taking out engine blocks, angry elks, etc).
angry elks
Where was this in the WY preparation plan? Because it better be in there.
i miss america. i miss my hk usp 45 compact, my ar-15, and my sig p220.
shot gun is way better for home defense.
I agree.
While having a loaded shotgun sitting out in the open in your house may be normal in Montana, but in Pittsburgh you better have it hidden away if you have company. So if you have short notice of trouble in your home, the pistols and revolvers are going to be the better option.
We hereby declare the entire state of Wyoming to be a single entity of pure, racist, abortion-clinic-bombing right-wing evil.
*fap*fap*fap*
Way ahead of you.
Both of you, that is.
Easy, troops. Don't go Waco on Wyoming until I get the go-ahead from Father Barry.
We've already pre-recorded anti-Wyoming/pro-SPLC shows for the day when DHS sends troops in to quash this right-wing menace.
We pre-wrote pro-Napolitano pieces just in case.
Go get 'em, Big Sis!
We got Krugnuts standing by.
Good. Now stay the fuck out.
Jennings and Rawl is not to be trusted.
.-. .- .-.. .-.. / -. --- - / .-. .- .-- .-..
so the spam filter accepts morse code. interesting.
The stripes and star pattern on the flag of the Allied States look retarded. Old Glory all the fucking way.
I'm rather partial to the Gadsden Flag myself.
Yeah, that was my favorite until I saw the alternate history flag used by the USA in the Fallout Universe.
Every single Gadsden flag owner is a terrorist.
I have a custom made one that says "Get Off My Lawn"
Does that count?
In the entirely predictable event of runaway global warming the rebirth of the Western Interior Seaway will submerge Wyoming. But the innundation will be gradual enough that for a period of several decades Wyoming will be a strategically placed and use a fleet of nuclear powered aircraft carriers to dominate the seaway.
The local newspaper retracted the aircraft carrier bullcrap. Don't believe everything you read in the paper.
As for spending money ... these are just contingency plans, so the state government has a procedure for dealing with a complete federal meltdown.
But go ahead and yuck it up at us redneck retards ... show us your bigotry.
How the fuck does this shit get through the spam filter but whenever I want to post something with a link half the time it doesn't go through?
AAAND it's gone.