Santorum 2008: "Satan has his sights on the United States of America"

From Drudge comes this blast from Rick Santorum's past. In 2008, the current GOP presidential frontrunner (kinda/sorta) dropped into Ave Maria University in Florida and told a group of folks:

"Satan has his sights on the United States of America!…Satan is attacking the great institutions of America, using those great vices of pride, vanity, and sensuality as the root to attack all of the strong plants that has so deeply rooted in the American tradition."

More here.

Hat Tip: Washington Times 24/7

This may well round out the Santorum trifecta. Previously, the former senator had railed against non-marital sex and the dangers of online gambling. 

Comments

[John]

Cue the Church Lady reference. But is this really any less crazy than thinking "green technology" is the key to economic recovery? And at least Santorum is scapegoating someone who is not a fellow American. Last I looked Satan renounced his American citizenship shortly after slavery ended. Obama in contrast scapegoats law abiding Americans like the Kochs and anyone who is rich and doesn't contribute to his campaign.

[sarcasmic]

Cue the Church Lady reference.

Dammit! That's what I was going to say.

[Mike]

Ah yes back to the Crusades and the Middle Ages where the Vatican led armies slaughtered tens of thousands all in the name of Jesus.

I bet Santorum's favorite movie is all but the last 10 minutes of Inherit The Wind.

[Satan]

First!

[Joe Wilson]

You lie!

[Eduard van Haalen]

Well, he *is* the Father of lies.

[Eduard van Haalen]

And his whole problem was wanting to be first when he wasn't, really.

[Jesus the Nazarene]

I am the Alpha and the Omega.

[Obama]

Funny, that just what the liberals called me in 2008!

[Barack the Obama]

I am the Afro and Omerta

[Anonymous Coward]

"We look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."

Go. Fuck. Yourself. You. Papist. Lapdog.

[John]

Satan has some extra time after he convinced the Catholic Church to support communism in Latin America and cover up for kid didling priests.

Considering the history of the Church over the last 50 years, it is pretty fucking rich for Santorum to accuse anyone else's church run by Satan. And I say this as a person who loathes the very churches he is talking about.

[SugarFree]

Gnostic Christians think all you Jehovahists worship Satan.

[John]

So do the Baptists. But what do they know?

[Eduard van Haalen]

The current Pope has a good history of fighting liberation theologians and child-diddlers, meeting opposition from within the church in the latter case and from the media and "progressives" in the former case.

[Fluffy]

Because it's not pride or vanity to think you know the mind of God, or that only you can save the US from Satan.

That's total humility.

What a douche.

[John]

A little bit.

[annonymous commenter some guy]

Sensuality is a vice?

What do you call someone who gives you a toy and then frowns upon you for playing with it?

I call that someone a dick.

[Innocuously Anonymous]

That's funny, 'a dick' is what I call the toy.

[SugarFree]

I know it's a bit hypocritical, but believing in God is one thing... I don't, but I'm not really going to attack or denigrate someone who does and doesn't try to force it on me, but Satan is just too far, you know? If you believe in a literal Satan, red pajamas and pitchforks, and not Satan as a metaphor for separation from God or the inherent evil nature of man, but devil horns and lakes of fire, I'm going to have to go with you being stupid or insane or a disgusting admixture of both.

[sarcasmic]

You might be surprised at how many people in this world are "stupid or insane or a disgusting admixture of both."

[SugarFree]

Not surprised, really, just saddened and a little queasy.

[sarcasmic]

I'm not sure which is worse.
Them, or the ones who worship the government, believing legislation to have magical powers and government having the ability to create value out of thin air.

[JW]

You going to go to The Bad Place for saying something like that.

[Tim]

WHen you mentioned the pajamas I immediately pictured Hugh Hefner.

[tarran]

You lost any right to a feeling of queasiness after you started destroying esophagi with your fanfic that is so extreme that it is banned under German Obscenity laws.

[SugarFree]

That I am queasy should be a sign that a similar feeling in those less versed in the Disgusting Arts would barely survive the experience.

[BakedPenguin]

Sugarfree is the H.P. Lovecraft of pornographic literature.

[Alack]

Even (LaVey) Satanists hold that Satan is a metaphor for the supposed "evils" that Christianity condemns, not a literal figure to bow down to.

[John]

And most Christians are nitwits about this stuff anyway. They themselves adopt some great good versus great evil battling it out for the universe. No. Even on Christian terms Satan is not God and not anything like God. It is either a metaphor for everything that seeks to move away from God or if you take it literally, a lesser being who manages to pray on our weakness.

[Fluffy]

That was one of the (many) things about Christianity that made no sense to me: the Book of Revelation notion that there would be a cataclysmic final Battle between good and evil to decide the Fate of the Universe.

That makes no sense if God is omnipotent and in charge of all Creation. All he has to do is think, and Satan and all his servants no longer exist. How can there be a "Battle" with that kind of deity? It's silly.

It's also silly to think that the devil would even try. If you're an atheist like me, you can malign God and laugh at Him all you want. But if you're the devil, you know better than anyone else that God is the real deal, that he can't lose, and that you can't win. The last person in the world to start a fight with God would be Satan.

[John]

But you assume Satan doesn't delude himself into believing God is something other than what he is. Satan is no different than man. We all reject God and lie to ourselves and convince ourselves of all sorts of things.

You are right, it is inexplicable. But so is evil. Why does someone wake up one day and decide kidnapping and killing a five year old is a good idea? Don't they know they will never get away with it? But they still do it.

And Revelations is not some great battle between good and evil. It is from our perspective. But not from Gods. From God's perspective it is just being revealing itself and events happening as he knew they would.

[Fluffy]

Sorry, John. That still doesn't make any sense.

The Book of Revelation talks about a process that takes place over a period of time. That's just ridiculous. A battle between God as the Christians describe him and literally any other entity would last less than a nanosecond. Unless God enjoys it for some perverse reason.

And Satan would be a lot different than Man. Satan is a supernatural being who has seen the face of God. Chatted the old boy up. He can't possess any doubt at all. He has to be more sure than any human being who has ever lived. He would also know he can't win, since he would have been present for at least part of the Creation and knows that God can make and unmake literally anything at will.

[John]

I am thinking the guy who kills the kid and leaves evidence behind ought to know he can't win versus the state. But he still does it.

All you are telling me is that Satan acts irrationally. And I say sure he does because evil is irrational. That is the whole point.

And yes, if you believe in an omnipotent God, then you have to believe that God, at least by omission, allows evil to exist. That is why it is called the problem of evil.

[Monty]

I thought that satan was trying to get more of mankinds souls than god and that is who wins the war.

[AlanD]

It depends on which 'Satan' you're referring to. In the Old Testament, Satan was much more of a tester of humanity--almost more of a Loki/trickster figure, who could be diabolical but was nevertheless firmly on Team Yahweh.

It was only after the Babylonian conquest and exile that Satan crept into being much more of a dualist figure (though not WHOLLY dualist, for reasons explained above), likely from transplanted Zoroastrian ideas. This was the Satan Christianity really ran with.

p.s. Nothing beats Peter Cook's Satan from Bedazzled. Now that is a Satan many people could get behind. Sadly I don't think that was what Santorum meant.

(p.s. this clip from the movie is probably the best explication of why Satan rebelled...ever).

http://youtu.be/_Z8AddFYCnA

[Old Salt]

The whole problem with Modern Christians and Satan is that the current view of him clashes completely with the bible's actual view of him and other forces of evil.

For example:

- No where does it say that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same. Careful reading shows that they're not. One was banished to the Abyss and the other to Hell which are similar but DIFFERENT places as per the descriptions given about them!

- The Beast and the False Prophet are doomsday monsters that will appear in end times (as per Revelations) and are NOT the devil (though they MAY be his allies).

- There is no such thing as THE Antichrist. An antichrist is simply one who denies Jesus as the messiah (that makes me and a few billion others antichrists)! 2 John 1:7 says this almost verbatim.

- The Devil was IMPRISONED in Hell and NO where in the bible does it say that he's in charge there! 2 Peter 2:4 states specifically that Satan and his followers where locked up there in "chains of darkness"!

The current vision of Satan being some cosmic badass started with Dante and Paradise Lost. Up until then, Satan was seen as an almost comical figure, somebody to be pitied even as he was the poor retard who was dumb enough to take on the Almighty. Medieval Folklore abounds with tales of the Devil being tricked and made the fool of. He was comic relief back then!

None of these bible thumping assholes really bother to read the damn thing. They get their Christianity from their church (who often has an axe to grind) and more often than not, the fucking TV (who can't even get the weather right). I hear some asshole like Santorom make speeches about "Satan" and I tune him out completely because the dumb fuck has already proven that he can't even be bothered to read the most "important" thing in his life!

[John]

Great Post Old Salt.

[Old Salt]

John,

Half of my family is Catholic and the other is Baptist. As an infant, I was baptized by both (which automatically damned me depending on which padre you ask) but being the only atheist in the group I often get drug into their debates (aka screaming matches) about who is right and who is wrong. Being the only one with a college degree, I was also the only one with enough drive to bother to sit down and read the bible from cover to cover. That way I could speak from a position of authority whenever I got caught in the cross hairs.

Even as a kid I had a hard time swallowing the bullshit but that's not to say that I couldn't find a few things to agree with (I always liked "love thy neighbor" which I take nowadays to mean don't go around invading every country that's on the map). As I got older, I began to realize that religion influences most of the world's politics so I branched out and began reading up on everybody's big imaginary friend in the sky. That way, whenever I encountered somebody's religion I could at least KNOW what the fuck they were talking about even if I didn't UNDERSTAND it.

That and I have found one of the most fun things in life to be able to take the wind right out of some fundie asshole's sails by using their own ignorance of their "religion" against them!

[Maxxx]

I like the Book of Job view of Satan as God's prosecutor.

[Old Salt]

Makes sense as Satan literally translates as "the adversary". The fact that he willingly works for God kinda goes against the grain of him being some would be usurper!

[Episiarch]

I SELL SHOES! THANK YOU SATAN!

[Pro Libertate]

I'm no biblical scholar, but isn't there some question about the nature of Satan as far as what the Bible says about him goes?

In the Book of Job, for instance, Satan seems more like God's prosecuting attorney than some renegade angel or evil opponent.

Even in the New Testament, some of the references to Satan make him look more like an extension of the Job role--test this Jesus guy's resolution for me, will ya?

[John]

Job is really an interesting book. I love it, God and Satan sitting down for a drink and taking bets on who is really righteous.

I think probably the best explanation of this question is the Screwtape Letters. Most people believe flat out nonsense that came from the back of heavy metal records.

[Pro Libertate]

"Letter to the Earth" is another in that vein.

[Pro Libertate]

Letters, that is.

[Old Salt]

Islam has a much more coherent vision of the Devil than Christianity does. His original name is "Iblis" and later he was given the title "Shaitan" which roughly translates as "rebel". He is the king of the jinn (demons) and was just one of Allah's many lieutenants with his jinn being little more than worker drones carrying out his orders on behalf of the Almighty.

What got him into trouble was that when Allah presented humans to the universe, Allah stated that man was his most perfect creation and ALL of the other servants MUST bow down in respect. Shaitan was the only one who refused because man was made from clay and jinn were made from fire which he reasoned to be superior. Allah was ready to smite Shaitan where he stood but was convinced to make a wager instead. The punishment would be commuted until Judgement Day IF and ONLY if Shaitan could PROVE that humans were lesser than jinn. The way to prove it would be for Shaitan (and his jinn) to lead mortals astray from Allah. If more souls are in Hell than in Heaven when the end comes, then Shaitan will have won the challenge and will be pardoned since man will be proven an flawed creature.

Jinn where the ONLY beings other than man to be given free will. Shaitan and the jinn are a reflection of that BUT the Koran specifically states that they are forbidden from directly harming anyone. The can only make suggestions and one of Shaitan's names translates as "whisperer". Furthermore, a TRUE follower of Allah is completely off limits to the jinn and there are numerous folk tales of clerics driving the jinn away with nothing more than there presence.

Shaitan makes much more sense than Satan does from a logical point of view. To a Muslim, rebelling against Allah is akin to a dolphin rebelling against the sea. How do you fight against reality itself? In any case, Muslims view the evil in the world simply being the result of Allah's evaluation of humanity. If there is a divine plan, it is not there place to know it.

That's one of the things I've always found funny about Islam and Christianity. In the Bible God NEVER makes mistakes but in the Koran Allah DOES makes mistakes and is even willing to admit it if proven wrong. Musa (Moses) was actually witnessed by Mohammad ARGUING with Allah and in several passages of the Koran he managed to persuade him to change his mind. What I find really funny is that the POPULAR views of Christianity allows for God to make mistakes but for Allah to be always right. Funny, huh?

[cynical]

That wouldn't necessarily conflict with what little is explicitly said in the Christian bible regarding Satan, though certainly he has acquired other mythological characteristics over time, especially through mixing with other religious traditions.

The notion of him as Heaven's prosecutor wouldn't be that different -- most people are a mix of light and dark, and a being tasked solely with exposing the dark might start to forget that the light even existed. Certainly, one might argue that any number of initially well-intentioned mortal prosecutors and law enforcement officials have been corrupted that way. As far as actually encouraging and enabling evil, the line between stings and entrapment (and Fast and Furious style chaos-stoking facilitation) gets blurry once you go down that path.

[Old Salt]

I agree completely. I was just pointing out that the role Satan plays in Christianity is EXTREMELY vague and VERY subject to interpretation, especially when compared to his later incarnation as Shaitan in Islam.

Muslim girl I know, likes to joke that the only thing that really separates Islam from the other Abrahamic Religions is that whoever wrote the Koran obviously knew what a fucking editor was!

[SugarFree]

In the Old Testament, even the existence of other gods was admitted. The pre-Christian Jews were henotheists as opposed to monotheists. So the existence of a minor or subjugate supernatural being was acceptable.

With the fusion of Manicheanism in the post-Paul period, God required an Anti-God for balance. Then the underworld and goatish imagery was cribbed from the Hellenistic traditions. And then you ascribe competing forms of Christianity to that anti-God to enforce orthodoxy. You get Satan in his pre-modern form.

[Pro Libertate]

Isn't the concept of Satan as a fallen angel non-biblical in origin?

[SugarFree]

Yes. Revelations mentions angels being cast down, but not Satan specifically.

[Y Szasz]

The first Baal-out, as it were.

[John]

Originally yes. But by the time of Christ they believed theirs was the only God. They were total monotheists by that point.

[SugarFree]

Yes and no. Rabbinical Judaism is monotheistic, but during the time of Christ it was still a blood-sacrifice religion, and the blood sacrifice was to exalt Jehovah as God-most-high. You don't need to raise Jehovah over other gods if the others don't exist. The move to monotheism begins in earnest after the destruction of the Temple by the Romans.

[John]

Wouldn't the Jews go back to sacrificing animals if they ever got a temple again to do it in? I thought the only reason they stopped is that they no longer had the temple.

[SugarFree]

I wasn't sure, so I googled a bit. Apparently there is no consensus that sacrifices must resume. The sects that want to resume only think the repentance sacrifices would have to resume, so only on the high holy days, not the daily sacrifice schedule.

[DK]

You know what else is a good admixture?

[Horst Overhed]

GEICO commercials?

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Gin and vermouth.

[Mike]

Humans are not inherently evil. You and tragically too may others like have been brainwashed by the Vatican and its break away brain washing sects.

[Jessica Rabbit]

Humans are not inherently evil.

They're just drawn that way.

[Old Salt]

I don't think that we're inherently evil but I refuse to believe that we're inherently good either.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Meh. It's Ave Maria University. He was pandering. (Although, is it pandering if you believe it?)

[annonymous commenter some guy]

You mean we actually caught a politician telling the truth? Seems doubtful.

[ernieyeball]

"In too many areas we have spawned 'leadership' that does not lead, that follows the crowd rather than challenging us,..It is easy to go downhill, and we are now following that easy path. Pandering is not illegal, but it is immoral. It is doing the convenient when the right course demands inconvenience and courage."
Our Culture of Pandering
The late Sen Paul Simon D-IL
2003

I don't know which is worse. Pandering or actually believing nonsense.

[Episiarch]

Every time you think the GOP can't throw up a shittier candidate, they always manage to exceed expectations.

[SugarFree]

Not every barrel has a bottom.

[Episiarch]

When you look into the GOP's hole, NutraSweet, the hole looks back into you.

[cynical]

I suspect the GOP barrel has plenty of bottoms, if you just look hard enough.

[John]

Oh come on. This is at least funny, which is one more positive thing than Gingrich has going for him.

[BakedPenguin]

It's a bipartisan effort. To lower expectations.

[Tim]

You say there's no devil but how else can you explain the third season of Star Trek or Jar Jar Binx? His influence is all around us...

[Old Salt]

Love him or hate him, I think P.J. O'Rourke said it best:

"The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it."

[FSM Prophet]

The Catholic Church is a glorified international pedophile ring with a nice art collection.

[John]

More public school teachers are pedophiles than priests.

[FSM Prophet]

Yeah, and the fact that there are fewer *reported* cases has nothing to do with the fact that you're scared shitless that the priest has a direct line to God, right?

And the public school system didn't cover it up on the global scale the Catholic Church did, nor do they claim to be the source of all objective morality.

[John]

And schools never cover up such stuff? And union rules don't leave teachers doing such things in place and harder to investigate and fire?

Just how did a LA public school teacher manage to molest kids for decades and never get caught? Was he just lucky? Or maybe was the school not looking and didn't care?

The schools are much much worse than the Catholic Church. And last I looked there wasn't a law that required you to send your kids to church.

[FSM Prophet]

Oh no, there's no law--just the church hierarchy yelling at you that you're putting your immortal soul in danger for missing Mass.

Corrupt, authoritarian, male-dominated, medieval, backward--your Catholic Church.

It's the source of most evil in the world today, right down to spreading AIDS in Africa.

[John]

It's the source of most evil in the world today, right down to spreading AIDS in Africa.

I am not a Catholic but that is just bullshit. The most evil? I would say governments are responsible for the most evil. Only a state loving nitwit would think otherwise. Write men when the Catholic Church sets up a country like North Korea or does to a country what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe.

[FSM Prophet]

Mugabe happens to be a Catholic in good standing.

[J_L_B]

It's the source of most evil in the world today, right down to spreading AIDS in Africa.

This is one of the biggest lies the left has ever put forth.

The Catholic Church does not hold the influence that the left thinks it does; even so, if it was such a powerful force in preventing Africans from using contraception, why is that force ineffective in preventing Africans from having unapproved sex?

[Masturbatin' Pete]

A conversation that has never, ever happened:

"We're both men. Let's have anal sex."

"Okay, but we can't use a condom. The Pope says it's a sin."

[cynical]

Of course. That would be theologically incorrect anyway, since a condom used for anal sex is only a prophylactic, not a contraceptive.

[nicole]

if it was such a powerful force in preventing Africans from using contraception, why is that force ineffective in preventing Africans from having unapproved sex?

I think it's supposed to be more, the Catholic Church prevents the developed world from providing subsidized or free condoms as part of their African aid programs. I don't think it's supposed to be a direct effect based on spreading Catholic dogma among Africans.

[J_L_B]

I think it's supposed to be more, the Catholic Church prevents the developed world from providing subsidized or free condoms as part of their African aid programs.

It doesn't surprise me that the church walks the walk in providing aid, but those who don't scream loudest at the church not providing their preferred type of aid only talk the talk.

If the people on the ground doing the grunt work don't do it to their liking, why aren't they out there doing it in their preferred manner instead of bitching about it?

[FSM Prophet]

And at least the teacher and those who cover it up will go to jail.

Meanwhile, Cardinal Law gets a promotion.

[John]

Last I looked a bunch of priests went to jail. And no one in the LA school system will ever be held accountable for that guy working there all those years.

[FSM Prophet]

Does the LA school system say it's the only source on Earth of objective morality?

[John]

Does the Catholic church forcibly take my money and tell me under penalty of law I have to send my kid to their schools or pay thousands for a private one?

Didn't think so.

[FSM Prophet]

No, it only claims you'll burn in fire forever if you don't follow all its ridiculous dictates and tell your deepest secrets to a priest in a box.

[John]

Who cares what they claim? They don't have guns and prisons to back it up the way the state does. If you hate them so much, don't join. I didn't. Sadly, I can't not join the public schools. They are taking my tax money no matter what.

[FSM Prophet]

No, they just have 100s of millions of people convinced they'll burn in torment forever if they don't listen to them. That's not traumatic at all, right?

Thank God the Cult of the Red Beanie is dying out in the west. You've been fucking exposed in the civilized world--good luck trying to put one over on Africans.

And I can't wait to see right wingers like Rick Santorum flip out when you're forced to accept a Nigerian Pope.

[John]

Now you have gone from being a bigot to being a racist. Fuck you. If you think people in Africa or lesser humans subject to the evil charms of the church, you are just a racist piece of shit and unworthy of being part of the discussion.

[FSM Prophet]

I'm saying the Catholic Church can only survive so long as a nation is backward, ignorant, and impoverished.

Which is why they're dying out in Europe and now in the USA. And I'm happy about it. I hope I live to be able to piss on the ruins of all the Cathedrals in the US.

[The 18th Century]

I called. I want my anti-Catholic rhetoric back.

[FSM Prophet]

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyn.....ration.php

[cynical]

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyn.....ration.php

Wow, dude. Look, David Duke might have some negative shit to say about Catholics too, but linking to his site on a NAACP blog is probably not going to go far in convincing people there of anything.

FSM is probably very disappointed in you. I wouldn't go outside in the next noodlestorm if I were you.

[John]

There are millions of American Catholics. And I wouldn't describe Latin America as backwards and it is deeply Catholic.

Again, you are just a racist peace of shit. Take your superior white man rhetoric somewhere else. That kind of stuff is not tolerated on here.

[FSM Prophet]

OK, time for the anticlimax. I know some of you have proposed intricate plans for how to do horrible things to these crackers, but I repeat?it's just a cracker. I wasn't going to make any major investment of time, money, or effort in treating these dabs of unpleasantness as they deserve, because all they deserve is casual disposal. However, inspired by an old woodcut of Jews stabbing the host, I thought of a simple, quick thing to do: I pierced it with a rusty nail (I hope Jesus's tetanus shots are up to date). And then I simply threw it in the trash, followed by the classic, decorative items of trash cans everywhere, old coffeegrounds and a banana peel. My apologies to those who hoped for more, but the worst I can do is show my unconcerned contempt.

U mad bro?

[John]

No retard I am not. Can't you go back to calling me a Nambla supporter? Get a new IP address did you?

[Karl Marx]

Which is why they're dying out in Europe and now in the USA. And I'm happy about it. I hope I live to be able to piss on the ruins of all the Cathedrals in the US.

You know who else supported the end of religion?

[Maxxx]

Does the LA school system say it's the only source on Earth of objective morality?

Pretty much.

Are you really claiming ignorance of the leftwing cult of education?

[Y Szasz]

Trivially true. Priests don't teach in public school.

[Mike]

How come no one ever talks about the Lesbian Nun pedophiles in the Catholic church?

Probably because they are all in cognitive dissonance on this subject.

[John]

Because they don't exist. And the number of actual pedophile priests is very small. They just covered it up, for which they deserve all the scorn they get.

But to call them an international ring, implying they are all like that, is just no true. And it is also not true to think the schools aren't worse than the church ever was.

[FSM Prophet]

Your Catholic hierarchy:

CT Magazine: In 2002, you wrote a letter to parishioners in which you said, "If in hindsight we discover that mistakes may have been made as regards prompt removal of priests and assistance to victims, I am deeply sorry."

EGAN: First of all, I should never have said that. I did say if we did anything wrong, I'm sorry, but I don't think we did anything wrong. But I hate to go back over this. I think there's more to life than that one issue, especially when I had no cases.

[John]

So what? I don't hear the LA school district or any school district admitting any fault either. And more kids are molested in schools than are molested in Catholic Churches.

[FSM Prophet]

Does LAUSD claim it holds the key to understanding revelation from God?

[Maxxx]

Yep.

[Tim]

Sadly, I'd still vote for him over Obama.

[Satan]

I am eternally grateful, Tim.

[Konfounded Kristen]

This is my idea of Satan

[Eduard van Haalen]

He's also critical of public schooling:

"At one appearance here, he said the idea of schools run by the federal government or by state governments was "anachronistic." Mr. Santorum did not say public schools were a bad idea, and he said that there was a role for government help in education....

"For the first 150 years, most presidents home-schooled their children at the White House, he said. "Where did they come up that public education and bigger education bureaucracies was the rule in America? Parents educated their children, because it's their responsibility to educate their children."

""Yes the government can help," Mr. Santorum added. "But the idea that the federal government should be running schools, frankly much less that the state government should be running schools, is anachronistic. It goes back to the time of industrialization of America when people came off the farms where they did home-school or have the little neighborhood school, and into these big factories, so we built equal factories called public schools. And while those factories as we all know in Ohio and Pennsylvania have fundamentally changed, the factory school has not.""

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02......html?_r=1

[Eduard van Haalen]

Or at Timothy Noah summarizes it in the New Republic: "Santorum might as well say he's opposed to knowledge itself."

http://www.tnr.com/blog/timoth.....-education

[Fluffy]

Wow, that Timothy Noah is a real douche.

Young people were lucky to have a parent who could even read the Bible; as late as 1870 fully 20 percent of the adult U.S. population couldn't read or write.

Shocking! Eccept for the fact that in 2009 14% of the adult US population couldn't read or write:

http://www.livescience.com/321.....-read.html

If the entire educational infrastructure and all those tens of billions of dollars are achieving nothing for us but a measly 6% reduction in the adult illiteracy rate on the margin, we are getting fucking robbed.

[John]

Yes we are getting robbed.

[John]

Eduard. Why do you have to rain on our parade and give us a reason not to hate this guy/

Santorum occasionally says some smart and really subversive things. I hate that. And Tim Noah is opposed to knowledge itself.

[nicole]

Santorum occasionally says some smart and really subversive things. I hate that.

My bf and I say this at least once during every single debate.

[Warty]

Satan Is Real

Incipit Satan

[P Brooks]

those great vices of pride, vanity, and sensuality

At least Sanctorich is immune to sensuality.

[FSM Prophet]

Look how much John loves to defend his international pedophile ring and art collection.

I guess some folks will do anything for the cracker and the two ounce shot of cheap wine.

[John]

I am not a Catholic you half wit. I am a protestant. I wouldn't take orders from the Pope on pain of death.

I just see you for the nitwit troll you are.

[FSM Prophet]

But you'll still defend "The Whore of Babylon" in your spare time, right?

Whatever, Papist.

[FSM Prophet]

Why do you think that as education and incomes rise the church dies, John?

[Eduard van Haalen]

Pasta becomes tastier and the FSM is more widely worshipped?

[FSM Prophet]

Exactly.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Yes, who needs idiots like Francis Collins?

Atheism is where it's at. Cause atheists are, like, smart and stuff.

And they always get sarcasm, too.

[Mr. Soul]

and christians are the gnostics.

[FSM Prophet]

The original early Christians probably were gnostics.

[ChrisO]

I've believed for awhile that Christianity started out as nothing more than a form of gnosticism with a Judaic gloss practiced by Hellenized Jews across the Mediterranean.

[cynical]

Most education in this country is run by a competing religion, so it's not really a shocker.

[Mike Laursen]

I don't get it. Why is this Santorum guy running for President instead of hanging from his locker door by his underwear?

[Danno]

Any adult who believes in 'Satan' should be locked up in the same loony bin as adults who think Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real. Bottom line, Rick Santorum is too insane to be President. I'd happily vote for Obama over him.

[John]

Can you lock the people who believe in "green energy" in the same room? That sounds like a lot more dangerous of an idea. And last I looked belief in Satan didn't raise my tax or my electric bill.

[Danno]

Yes, anyone who believes in a made-up deity who punishes people for being 'bad' (always an arbitrary definition) should be locked away or consigned to irrelevance.

[John]

You didn't answer my question. What about the people who think Solar can supply all of the electricity for Northern Europe?

[Danno]

I thought I did. But if you require a more direct answer, then YES. Anyone who believes solar (or any other of the supposed 'green' energy technologies) can provide the amount of energy required to run modern civilization is an imbecile, not rational and should be locked away for the good of society. Is that concise enough, John?

[J_L_B]

Yes, anyone who believes in a made-up deity who punishes people for being 'bad' (always an arbitrary definition) should be locked away or consigned to irrelevance.

Given that the only people with the power to enforce this view the state as their deity, and don't mind sending armed individuals to correct my 'being bad', I fear them much more than any pastor who tells me to be honest in my dealings who lacks such an enforcement mechanism.

[Danno]

Rick Santorum isn't a pastor. He's currently the front-runner of the GOP candidacy. He has no chance of winning. But what if Obama does something really stupid in the days leading up to the election, and by some fluke Santorum get becomes President? He'll have the power to enforce his silly, made-up, Medieval religious beliefs on all of us through his federal government power. Chew on that for awhile, JLB.

[J_L_B]

He'll have the power to enforce his silly, made-up, Medieval religious beliefs on all of us through his federal government power.

And Michael Moore crediting Jesus and his Catholic faith as the inspiration for his socialist advocacy is better because...?

[romulus augustus]

I don't care to lock them up (don't want to pay for their mental health care either) but I'm sure not going to vote for one of them to be president.

[Danno]

The very fact that Santorum with his insane beliefs has gotten this far in the primary concerns me. The inmates are truly running the sanitarium.

[Bam!]

"Previously, the former senator had railed against non-marital sex and the dangers of online gambling. "

Which is a little odd given that the Catholic church has never been against gambling.

[Danno]

He only opposes gambling beyond his control. Vegas gambling and church gambling is OK, but 'uncontrolled' online gambling must be stopped. Only a secular 'fool' can't see the difference.

[Bam!]

After I wrote the comment, I started wondering why the quote specified online gambling instead of all.

[Sick Rantorum]

'Cause Teh Pr0n is online.

[J_L_B]

Which is a little odd given that the Catholic church has never been against gambling.

I've always thought that most candidate have moral code that is only marginally attached to their religious beliefs at best. Nevertheless the media will label anyone a religious extremist believing that all of their opinions are copies of the teachings of their respective religious leaders.

[Old Salt]

I've always been amused by those in the teetotalers movement who try to bring Christ into play. I mean, Jesus is the only major deity I can think of who not only says its okay to drink but he also fucking COMMANDS it! Hell, one of his favorite miracles was to quite literally make booze appear out of thin air! That's why the Church has historically been the major brewer/vinter/distiller for much of Europe. It was a major source of income (only so many alms you can get from peasants in the backwoods) and a great way to bond with the parishioners. Records show that drinking contests on Church grounds were a pretty standard way to celebrate most holy days! Even now, many of the oldest and most respected of alcohol producers in Europe are STILL Church run.

[johnd2]

It would be totally stupid for the Republicans to nominate this guy. This sort of nonsense turns off about 70% of all voting people of USA.

[Danno]

Republicans have never been known for their intelligence. Yes, I've voted Republican in the past. But if anyone other than Ron Paul gets the nomination (not likely, but still), I'm going to vote for Obama--just to prove I'm not racist.

[Bam!]

Republicans Voters have never been known for their intelligence.

Fixed it for ya.

[Danno]

Can't argue with you there...

[Randy]

If Christians actually worked to build and live in a morally pluralistic world as envisioned by the Golden Rule, Santorum's (or any Christian's) religious beliefs would not be of concern to anyone as he (or they) wouldn't dream of enacting Christian mores into law. Unfortunately, there aren't a whole lot of Christians that operate this way.

The fact that many Christians see it as their duty to defend or enact laws informed by their religious beliefs indicates that they don't have an inkling of what the Golden Rule really means.

[cynical]

"Unfortunately, there aren't a whole lot of Christians that operate this way."

I think it's more plausible that they're just less vocal about it. If you don't really have any desire to bother other people, you're probably not going to stand on the rooftops and shout about your apathy.

[BoscoH]

Simple typo. This happened just before Christmas and Santorum was telling everyone that Santa Clause is coming to town.

[AlanD]

You don't think that Santorum was referring to Peter Cook in Bedazzled, right?

http://youtu.be/_Z8AddFYCnA

Drat.

[Barrett Brown]

Now Satan will target Santorum lest he bring further attention to the ongoing Satanic assault on America. Likely he'll use his powers to make Santorum say ridiculous things in public, thereby sabotaging the candidacy. You heard it hear first.

[Bill Baerg]

Rick Santorum is a very confused Christian IDIOT ! ! !