Romney Up But Santorum Not Down in the Wolverine State
Public Policy Polling, the polling outfit that last week had Mitt Romney 15 points behind Rick Santorum in Michigan, one of Romney's multiple home states, now has him behind by "only" four points. This is certainly hopeful for the Romney camp because a Michigan loss will essentially eviscerate his main claim for being the Republican nominee: electability. But a Michigan win won't necessarily mean that Romney is more electable than Santorum (although, for the record, I don't give a rat's ass about Santorum, his electability or his sweater vests). That's because Romney's improving prospects in the Wolverine State might have more to do with Newt Gingrich than Romney himself. Here's what the PPP found:
Gingrich's continued presence in the race is helping Romney a lot. If he dropped, 45% of his supporters would go to Santorum, compared to only 29% for Romney and it would push Santorum's lead over Romney up to 42-33. 47% of primary voters think Gingrich should drop out while only 40% believe he should continue on, but he's certainly not showing any indication he'll leave.
Santorum's advantage over Romney seems to be a reflection of voters being more comfortable with where he is ideologically. 48% of voters think Santorum has more similar beliefs to them, compared to only 32% who pick Romney on that question. 63% of primary voters think Santorum's views are 'about right' compared to only 42% who say that for Romney. 37% believe that Romney is 'too liberal.'
Point to note: Gingrich keeps inviting other candidates to get lost while Michigan voters want him to get lost.
Other interesting poll highlights:
- The tightening over the last week is much more a function of Romney gaining than Santorum falling. Santorum's favorability spread of 67/23 has seen no change since our last poll, and his share of the vote has dropped only 2 points from 39% to 37%. Romney meanwhile has seen his net favorability improve 10 points from +10 (49/39) to +20 (55/35) and his vote share go from 24% to 33%.
- Romney's bailout stance isn't hurting him. 34% of voters say they're more likely to vote for someone opposed to the bailout, while only 27% consider that opposition a negative. 35% say it doesn't make a difference to them either way.
- Romney's still not convincing anyone that he's a Michigander- only 29% of voters consider him to be one, while 62% do not. But given that he's risen in the polls over the last week without making any progress on that front, it looks like it doesn't really matter whether or not Michigan Republicans consider him to be one of their own.
- This is still an extremely volatile race. 36% of voters say they could change their minds in the next week. 69% of Romney's supporters are strongly committed to him, compared to only 63% of Santorum's backers. With momentum on his side and a more reliable group of supporters there are plenty of reasons to think Romney can continue this comeback and win next week.
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The fact that Rick Santorum is a viable candidate for the Office of the President of the United States makes me want to *headdesk* all day every day.
I have this horrific, queasy feeling that Ricky Cumfarts is going to be our next president. I wouldn't think it possible, but...
JESUS CHRIST HOW HORRIFYING
A Santorum presidency would be awesome... it would destroy the evangelicals as thoroughly as Bush destroyed the neocons.
I also have a feeling that his wife would have an epic breakdown in year three of his presidency. Just a vibe, nothing I could put my finger on...
The one good thing might be that TEAM BLUE would fight every single thing Ricky wanted to do tooth and nail, and nothing would get done, which I can dig.
The one good thing might be that TEAM BLUE would fight every single thing Ricky wanted to do tooth and nail, and nothing would get done, which I can dig.
Bonus good thing: the Reason commentariat would remember how much social conservatism sucks ass.
Who among us really needs a reminder of that?
I'm not going to name names, but we have plenty of SoCon, Jus' Plain Folk, Kulture Warriors that frequent this board.
Ah. Real 'Muricans. I usually tune out the first time they say cosmo- anything.
We also have plenty of antiKultur Warrior Kulture warriors who reflexively paint the slightest remark as KULTUR WAR.
+1 for cytotoxic
Guys, It's Kultur Kampf, say the whole fucking phrase or say it in English.
I wish I could believe that but history has shown us that they have the ability to come together for horrible legislation. The USA PATRIOT Act anyone.
It would happen after she found Ricky and his thousand-yard-stare son tag-teaming the remains of a male intern in the Lincoln bedroom.
Not everybody has sex with corpses dude. Though it wouldn't surprise me if Junior did.
He was alive when they started. Erotic asphyxiation is more fun when it's dangerous, apparently.
I think it's a good look. It's manly, and intense.
Lord of the Rings 4: Frodo's Payback.
I remember that scene from Sin City.
I will now note that I had no idea that Wood played this role in Sin City, I thought that was an uncanny resemblance to that scene with Ricky Jr. inserted as a fairly good photoshop and that this site needs a fucking "edit" feature.
Screw you guys. I'm going home.
Look, dude, the poor kid needs his dad's help. After the war, he just hasn't been the same.
The family that lays together...
it would destroy the evangelicals as thoroughly as Bush destroyed the neocons.
Bush destroyed the neo-cons? And here I thought I heard neo-con war drums thumping for Iran.
Well if "destroy" means "got all the voters angry enough to demolish their party in an election so that we could usher in....people from the other party who will enact the exact same policies", then it's totally true that Bush destroyed the neocons.
Sweet, can't wait for "kinetic military action" on the S. American jihadists and/or Mexican narcos.
Or on California's porn industry.
Hollywood?
No need to, the liberals are going to regulate it death all by themselves.
"Mr. Vice President, Mr. Secretary, the missiles are flying. Hallelujah. Hallelujah."
Where's a brain-damaged Christopher Walken when you need him?
Same here
I've been talking to a few other friends who lean small "l" libertarian and there is no more depressing a topic than the rise of Santorum.
I admit that for all of his so-con talk he doesn't really propose to actually do anything that would have a prayer in becoming any type of law, but his smack down on libertarians in the conservative arena was one of the most ill informed opinions from a politician running for office I've ever seen.
I don't believe it reaches the "Santorum wants to steal your lady parts" hysteria that the left has about him, but from a purely fundamental political standpoint the guy is an idiot.
Yes Rick, run on a platform of "YOU HAVE TOO MANY FREEDOMS!!!". For President of America. Genius.
...there is no more depressing disgusting a topic than the rise of santorum.
Except maybe discussing how to cook the santorum after it rises.
What depresses me the most is that he is perceived outside the Republican party as supporting libertarian values such as small government. He keeps using arguments about economics that he's stolen from Cato and similar places, and I'm afraid we libertarians are going to be equated with his brand of religious big-government activism.
We need to keep pointing out the big-brother nanny-ism of both Obama and Santorum. I already call Obama 'Bush Lite', but it doesn't do me much good.
Sigh.
What depresses me the most is that he is perceived outside the Republican party as supporting libertarian values such as small government.
I agree that this would be equally depressing if Santorum wasn't doing such a fine job himself in making it clear how much he loathes libertarians. And if he somehow manages to win the nomination (shudders) you can bet your ass that the left will be more than happy to remind independents how much he hates libertarians and wants to use big government to steal your lady parts.
Of course this will put them in a bit of a hypocritical bind since the left wants to use big government to redistribute your money, but since when has that ever bothered them?
Ironically, this will be the very thing that keeps Santorum from having any chance against Obama. Ron Paul will never endorse Santorum and may run as an independent against him of get fully behind Johnson. If the GOP establishment complains, all he has to do is lay Santorum's anti-liberty statements and stances on the table, and walk away with a big chunk of the GOP vote.
Santorum could have talked about family values all he wanted, but attacking a big chunk of your party's coalition is a terrible idea when you're already trailing Obama.
Santorum could have talked about family values all he wanted, but attacking a big chunk of your party's coalition is a terrible idea when you're already trailing Obama.
Yeah, that's the part that explains why Santorum will get thumped if he gets the nod. Clearly any GOP candidate will need to have a big tent philosophy to beat President Not My Fault. Devising purity tests and scapegoating a chunk of the GOP base for the problems with society before the heavy campaign gets started is just a giant strategical error.
Democrats and the MSM cast every Republican as a deregulating, government-cutting, radical budget hawk.
There are still bloggers and pundits towing the lion that Bush reduced the size of government.
If they told the truth people might realize that there's very little daylight between the 2 parties on anything that actually matters (i.e. anything other than stupid bullshit social issues).
They both want government to do the same thing: enforce their values, and force them on other people.
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Are your members free of excess santorum? Nothing tamps down the fun of a bi encounter faster than unwanted santorum.
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"Santorum's backers"
LOL
If Santorum wins this thing, it will confirm to me that there's some sort of cooperation going on between the two parties, because I don't see any other reason for the GOP to gift-wrap 2012 for Obama like that.
There is a cooperation of a sort; in 2008 there was a great deal of effort put in by both REpublicans and Democrats to get the nomination for weakest candidate of the opposing side. People were exhorted to change party affiliations to vote for Obama and McCain.
I would be surprised if that isn't continuing this year.
Actually, I seem to recall Rush telling people to vote Hillary! in the 2008 primaries after Obama took the lead.
I don't see a conspiracy per se. Just a lot of dumb voters with no "good options".
Santorum was mostly lockstep with the Bush Administration, never cheated on his wife (like Newt) and never enacted a prototype of Obamacare (like Romney). Team Red also likes Middle Eastern bloodshed, and Frothy is willing to give it to them (unlike Ron Paul). To most of them, Frothy's social conservatism isn't a deal breaker, in fact it's a plus. It's nauseating but I see him winning the nomination (but not the election).
"Romney Up But..."
Better than having santorum up there.
On the Washington Journal this morning I asked Tony Perkins to name a single vote by Santorum that supported limited government. Not only couldn't Perkins name one, he went on to outline votes that troubled him. But Perkins isn't going let a little spending problem bother him, this election isn't about big government, it's about God.
On the plus side, a happy God might just give us a good economy!
Did anybody get a count on how many times Candy Crowley asked Ron Paul a version of when/if he was gonna quit? I think they believe they have their two man race.
What I would really like to see is Romney and Santorum team up against Wolverine.
The "canucklehead" will shred the hell out of both of them, so there's that.
That's kinda what I was getting at. Even ROMNIAC's shape-shifting abilities wouldn't stand a chance against Wolverine's claws.
The GOP won't let Santorum be the nominee. Sixteen years in Congress and no one from there supports him. At least Newt picked up one or two strays like JC Watts and Fred Thompson.
Romney will back in like a bad stench. The base will just have to learn to like him despite his lack of authenticity.
strays.....is not far from cat..........which is not at all far from black..............which is surely not far from J.C. Watts.........
raysist!
I'm pretty sure that Republicans will never really like him, and that instead of learning to like him, they'll stay home.
When driving to work, I often take a deserted back street that runs behind the Target store. It eventually dumps out to an industrial road near my job. Anyway, on the side of this little road that few people travel on, was a lonely little Gingrich 2012 sign. There isn't a house or even a building on this stretch.
Don't call it a comeback.
heh, at least in Michigan, I've actually seen more Ron Paul signs / bumper stickers than anyone else but Obama.
Unfortunately, now that Gingrich seems to be disappearing, this will look like a two-man race to just about everyone, what with Paul being just a nutbar fringe vanity candidate and all.
If that happens, then I suspect that Paul will suffer the usual fate of the odd man out - voting for him will be wasting your vote, etc. - and his take will go down in the remaining states.
Gingrich still looks good in Georgia, which is a big prize, though proportional in its delegates. I think his massive ego will keep him going. Plus, who knows what stunts he'll pull in the upcoming debate.
The only reason (that I can think of) for Santorum lead in Michigan is his SoCon credentials. The western side of the state, especially the Grand Rapids/Holland area, is dominated by Dutch Christian Reformed churches - about as "conservative" as you can get.
Speaking as a resident, Michigan has always been divided by East(Detroit) and West(more conservative), the Detroit area outnumbering the rest of us, hence the (general) Blue State / Union voting patterns.
Looks like Santorum had said a word too much who had offended the Dutch. http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfe.....nasia-clai
One other poster think he jumped the shark for another reason http://www.article6blog.com/20.....t-matters/
He offended the Dutch in the Netherlands, not in Michican.
He supposedly exaggerated the % of euthanasia deaths in the Netherlands - he said 10%, while official Dutch govt statistics say just above 2% - and govt statistics don't lie.
But they tend to be anti-state conservatives, historically speaking, not?
Here's the problem with Santorum:
Our next President will need to spend every nickel of political capital on reducing spending and, if we're lucky, rolling back the regulatory state.
Santorum has shown zero interest in doing so in his entire career. He will blow his political capital on pointless culture war bullshit. The opportunity cost will be immense.
That's only a problem if you consider saving the Republic a priority (or even a possibility). If you're already resigned to the government collapsing under the weight of war and entitlement debt, then the election is just a matter of casting the final installment of the trilogy.
"Episode 6: Not a New Hope"
We already have the least regulations of any major Western industrial state while our manufacturing output is the highest in the world.
But you are right. When they (Newt, Ricky, Milt) talk cutting spending its "Dept of Education" then little else. Two years of Santorum/Romney and Congress goes back to the Dems in 2014.
Isn't there a relationship between Dept. of Educ. funding and manufacturing output?
We already have the least regulations of any major Western industrial state
Let's see, would those be states that are just ahead of us on the road to fiscal collapse?
1 Hong Kong 89.9
2 Singapore 87.5
3 Australia 83.1
4 New Zealand 82.1
5 Switzerland 81.1
6 Canada 79.9
7 Chile 78.3
8 Mauritius 77.0
9 Ireland 76.9
10 United States 76.3
11 Denmark 76.2
12 Bahrain 75.2
13 Luxembourg 74.5
14 United Kingdom 74.1
15 Netherlands 73.3
16 Estonia 73.2
17 Finland 72.3
18 Republic of China (Taiwan) 71.9
19 Macao 71.8
20 Cyprus 71.8
21 Sweden 71.7
22 Japan 71.6
23 Lithuania 71.5
24 Saint Lucia 71.3
25 Qatar 71.3
26 Germany 71.0
27 Iceland 70.9
28 Austria 70.3
29 Uruguay 69.9
30 Czech Republic 69.9
NZ and Australia are better? *faints*
What century are you living in? The world isn't divided into East/West anymore. The current division looks more like places where the regulatory structure has strangled growth and places where there still is opportunity for rapid growth. Guess which one the US is rapidly advancing towards?
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation + Federal Reserve Board + Office of the Comptroller of the Currency + National Credit Union Administration + The Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council + Office of Thrift Supervision + Office of Foreign Assets Control + gaggle of state agencies = Shrike is one ignorant motherfucker.
If you are even 1/10th the big shot you claim, you got a frog walk in your future to be that blissfully unaware of the regulatory industry that leeches off of banking.
"48% of voters think Santorum has more similar beliefs to them"
That is a horrifying thought.
Well, its certainly a horrifying sentence. "more similar"? Really?
"56% of voters thought the previous question was grammatically correct."
serious non-native speaker question -- what is the comparative of similar?
In honor of Santorum:
Japanese Fart Battle Scroll! 36 thrilling scenes!
Take that, cat!
There better be tentacles.
It's not japanese until a 12 year old with huge DDD tits gets tentacle raped by an octopuss from space/ another dimension/ the underworld.
This is what happens to a country when it spends 200 years alone in its room instead of socializing with other countries.
The Otaku Principle?
The dangerous of anticommunitarian homeschooling!
I was speaking with a Republican acquaintance - he was attempting to get me behind Santorum - and he reminded me that Santorum hasn't promised to actually do anything about banning contraceptives, it is just that he is opposed to their use and we libertarians should be more tolerant. I told him I agreed Santorum would not propose any legislation along those lines; however, I don't want to support any presidential candidate who holds such irrational beliefs even if he or she would not propose legislation. "Why, if he just believes it but wouldn't act." Because such irrationality is certain to spill over onto other issues that the president, perhaps unfortunately, does have sway over. I liken Santorum's belief on the evils of contraception to having a candidate who believes Elvis is alive and working as a Wal-Mart greeter, or whose hobby is to dress as a Klingon and go to Star Trek conventions. They are welcome to their beliefs but do not recommend one for a job as President.
he was attempting to get me behind Santorum
At least he wasn't trying to get santorum behind you...
How about pointing out that even if that were the case Santorum is also awful on fiscal and foreign policy issues so his social policy implementations doesn't matter.
Yeah, that's my take on this whole thing too.
Also, I just don't see how the whole thing isn't personally offensive to far too much of the electorate. His widely publicized 2006 remarks say that "I think it's harmful to our society to have a society that says that sex outside of marriage is something that should be encouraged or tolerated" [emphasis mine]
You have sex outside marriage? That should not be tolerated.
From his remarks in October 2011, outlined here in the Journal: "if you can take one part out that's not for purposes of procreation, that's not one of the reasons, then you diminish this very special bond between men and women"
If you are using contraception, even with your wife, you are diminishing your special bond with her. Your sex life, conjugal or not, is not "special" if you're using contraception.
He goes on to say "I'm not running for pastor, but these are important public policy issues." That's great, but what percentage of the population is really up for a president or presidential candidate denigrating not just their sex lives in general, but what are, for them, some of the most special and even most sacred things they do in life?
On one level, it's similar to the sort of "recognition" or whatever GLBTQ people want for their own sexual choices, but I think it's pretty substantively different from that when we're talking about someone who is out to deligitimize what I have to assume is a pretty substantial majority of the sexual relationships of everyone in the country. Why are people not just personally offended that this guy is telling them their loving, bonded, committed sex lives are not "special" and perhaps actively "harmful"? People should be like, "Yo, this dude is talking shit about my marriage. What the hell?"
GLBTQ? Why do they keep adding letters onto that thing?
I always wonder why they don't feel the need to go in alphabetical order, to prove none of them are microagressing against the others. Should totally be BGLQT.
LOL. But, OK, what is the Q?
Quakers
We've both seen UFO's!!!
Is it even possible for Santorum to get enough delegates from the states he IS registered in?
He's actually on just about every ballot. He's not on the Virginia, D.C., and Indiana ballots, and has some kind of restriction for delegate totals in Illinois and North Dakota.
The biggest one will be Virginia, with only Romney and Paul. I wonder if Gingrich and Santorum supporters will vote Paul to prevent Romney from getting more delegates.
It's not the "Wolverine" State, it's the "Great Lakes" State.
Things are bad enough in Michigan without being associated with a weasel that's not even native.
Hey, Wolverine may not be a native, but he's no weasel. He fought in WWII. He was an X-Man, an Avenger, a S.H.I.E.L.D agent, the Fantastic Four for some reason?
Jesus, is there any team he hasn't been whored out to?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Super-Pets
The Arizona poll is even scarier in places:
I can't understand why people pay attention to endorsements in general (let alone the endorsement of such a douchebag).
There's a idiot known as Santorum.
He embodies "religious decorum".
He says sex is obscene,
but war's peachy-keen!
Which is why folks with reason abhor him.
Sometimes you just have to laugh and cross your fingers, right? :/
Gotta just love those bought and paid for politicians, I mean like seriously.
http://www.Totally-Private.tk
Romney up, but: Santorum Applying Pressure
only ...37% believe that Romney is 'too liberal.'
And they try to tell us that the Left isn't winning in the big picture.
There is no serious movement afoot to unseat and destroy ObamaCare, and by all appearances it's because nobody really gives a shit.
RumNuts it is then.
36% of voters say they could change their minds in the next week.
What are these people thinking? Are they waiting for some muckraker to drag out a closeted skeleton at the last minute, afraid their current candidate might utter some unforgivable politically-incorrect gaffe, or what?
I hate Santorum so much, I can't believe I'm rooting for Romney.
Again, an ad on this page which urges the need for birth control has a photo of a young black woman.