Economics

The Economics of Heavy Metal

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Metallica hasn't been the same since Cliff Burton died.

The Wall Street Journal reports that European politicians and business leaders aren't the only ones making high-level decisions in response to the continent's ongoing economic troubles. Heavy metal titans Metallica "are sleeping with one eye open for a different reason: Europe's financial crisis." As the Journal's Neil Shah reports:

Metallica's longtime manager, Cliff Burnstein, is accelerating the band's tour plans to avoid getting sucked into Europe's debt troubles. With the gloom among investors spreading to richer countries such as France, Mr. Burnstein is worried that the euro will tank, making it harder for concert promoters in the 17 countries that use the currency to pay Metallica's fees.

Instead of playing Europe in 2013, as originally envisaged, Metallica will take a "European Summer Vacation" next year, including gigs at Germany's Rock Im Park and Rock Am Ring festivals in early June—where the top-grossing thrash band will play its chart-topping 1991 record known as "The Black Album" in its entirety—before heading to Britain and Austria.

"Look, I'm not an economist, but I have a degree, so it helps," Mr. Burnstein said one afternoon, sitting in the back room of his midtown Manhattan office in jeans and a red Economist magazine T-shirt with "Think Responsibly" printed on it. "You have to ask yourself, what's the best time to be doing what, when and where."

I realize that value is subjective, but seriously, who pays good money to hear Metallica play "The Black Album" all the way through?

NEXT: Congressional Kidney Failure

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  1. Paging Warty. Warty, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

  2. “Look, I’m not an economist, but I have a degree, so it helps,” Mr. Burnstein said

    Let me be clear.

    Me, too.

  3. who pays good money to hear Metallica play “The Black Album” all the way through?

    You know, I really liked that album when I was in 6th grade. It has not aged well.

    1. Really? My brother and I were all excited when the album came out. Put it on the basement stereo and starting listening to it and…WHAT THE SWEET FUCK IS THIS SHIT?!?!? Still bugs me to this day.

      1. Well, you were probably old enough to have some taste. I was like 9 when that album came out.

        1. First album I ever bought. I was about the same age.

          1. Remember that feeling, years later, when you slowly realized you’d been cheated?

            1. I remember that feeling just a couple of months ago with Opeth’s new album.

              Fuck Heritage.

              New Lamb of God FTW!!

          2. We all make rookie mistakes. I can’t remember the first album I ever bought, but I do remember buying Men At Work on vinyl at like 9 or 10.

            1. When I was 9 or 10, I bought my sister Neil Diamond on vinyl for Christmas.

          3. The first album I ever bought was Queen’s News to the World right after if first came out. I was in the 6th grade.

            1. I’m far too embarrassed to say what my first album purchase was.

              So fuck you all.

          4. First albm I bought was Pantera’s Cowboys from Hell. I had an odd childhood.

      2. Almost the same story for me. I was about 16-17 at the time and someone asked me if I had seen the new Metallica video. Huh? A new video? Well, ok, what’s it like? I dunno, something about a sandman or something. I was like, uh, that’s cheesy so it can’t be right. Then I saw it…Yikes. I was never the same.

      3. Same thing for me. Master of Puppets was the first one I really listened to, I bought AJFA the day it came out and saw them on that tour several times, and when I listened to the Black album I was stunned. It’s not terrible music and it grew on me but it is not Metallica. Almost all of their success is built on pre-Black album stuff. That is what everybody at the shows is there to hear. They just put out some more crap every few years for a reason to tour and people go to the shows to hear the old stuff.

      4. Ugh…I remember that being the moment when all the “cool” kids suddenly became the “ZOMG BIGGEST METALLICA FANS EVAR!!” and proceeded to think “Enter Sandman” was “heavy.”

        And here I was being embarrassed to admit that I really like And Justice For All… because we all knew that Cliff > Jason and the band would never be the same.

        I hate that f*cking album.

        1. Well, that’d be a fair judgement if you were allowed to even hear Jason on AJFA. Those remasters are superb.

      5. Same thing happened when I bought Reload…and then again when I bought St. Anger.

    2. While its not the same thing, Rush played Moving Pictures all the way through for the 1st time on tour earlier this year. I say the show on Palladia (Palladium?), it was pretty good.

      1. ^^understatement!

        1. It was a GREAT show.

          But Geddy’s voice just ain’t what it used to be. It’s HIGHLY noticeable on the recording made during that tour. He sounds like shit.

    3. It’s been all down hill after Justice for All.

    4. Shit you guys are making me feel old.

      6th grade? First album?

      I’m actually kinda tired of people griping about how this or that Metallica album isn’t “real” Metallica, or whatever. If you liked the Black Album, you don’t know what real Metallica is, blah, blah, whatever.

      Other than St. Anger. Damn, that album sucks. I was so seriously disappointed after I bought it, after first being excited when I heard that Metallica finally was coming out with a new album. What the fuck kind of lyric is “frantic, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tock?” And the whole production quality just suuuucks, with Lars sounding like he’s banging on an old galvanized steel trash can lid.

      Anyhow, seems to me, you like what you like. I like the Black Album. I like pretty much every Metallica album – except St. Anger. But I think S&M probably is my favorite.

      But I am thinking they should now just gracefully fade away. I think they’re out of ideas. Death Magnetic was not the totally awful pile of shit that St. Anger was, and it’s a little closer to their old school stuff, but some of the lyrics are still a bit lame. And Hetfield’s voice mostly is shot.

  4. I paid good money to see Megadeth play “Rust in Peace” all the way through, and that was awesome. But really, the Black Album? Fuck.

    1. ^this.

    2. The original Operation Mindcrime tour still ranks as my #2 favorite concert ever.

      1. Mindcrime live played all the way through was an incredible show. I saw it twice when they were doing it on the Empire tour, and again a few years ago at a smaller venue when they were touring for their Mindcrime II album. I think the original Mindcrime is a seriously under-appreciated rock album.

      2. Finally, someone my age.

    3. I never really liked them until I saw them in concert (for free, tickets were given to me by somebody at work who had gotten them for free) and it was one of the best shows I’ve ever seen. Youthanasia tour.
      I’ve been a fan ever since.

    4. I was thinking if they really wanted to do the Germans a solid, they’d play the entire Ride the Lightning or Master of Puppets albums. And Justice for All would merit some mention if you could actually hear the damned bass on it.

      1. And Justice for all was one of the first songs I learned to play on bass..and I had no fucking way of telling if the tabs were accurate or not..so I winged it. The bass lines were pretty solid for that album…but definitely not of Cliff Burton quality.

    5. Megadeth rules in concert! \m/

  5. ALT. TEXT. WIN.

    1. Greatest. Bassist. Ever.

      1. Let’s not get crazy now. Nostalgia doesn’t make someone a god.

        1. Fair enough. Although I’m not so up to date on more recent bassists and the most recent metal world.

          I guess the more accurate turn of phrase would be most influential ever. The same way some people say Hendrix was the greatest ever when he was fairly meek in comparison with some that followed. But he certainly revolutionized the instrument.

        2. Let’s just agree that Les Claypool auditioned as his replacement, and put him in the top 5.

          1. Good enough for me.

            1. …And Justice for All could well have had Geddy Lee producing with Les Claypool on bass.

  6. Who pays good money to hear Metallica play “The Black Album” all the way through?

    1. ^^^THIS**2^^^

  7. I realize that value is subjective, but seriously, who pays good money to hear Metallica play “The Black Album” all the way through?

    Fucking Europeans.

    1. David Hasselhoff was/is huge in Germany. Nuff said.

  8. who pays good money to hear Metallica play “The Black Album” all the way through?

    Who classifies Metallica as heavy metal?

    1. Not me!

    2. What the hell is it then? I can’t stand them. Their singer sounds like he is garfing up a hair ball. They do not posses one ounce of wit or pop sensibility.

      I get the whole rock harder thing. But you have to do more than just scream and bang on the drums. Thoroughly shitty band from start to finish.

      1. I get the whole rock harder thing.

        If you think Metallica does, then you don’t get it at all.

        1. NO I don’t think they do. The trick is to make heavier music that also still has pop hooks and is listenable and approachable. That is called art. Any fucking monkey can scream and play power chords.

          1. Kill ’em All will forever remain a classic.
            “Whiplash”, “No Remorse”, “Seek & Destroy”…. awesome!

              1. I’m sorry your ears suck.

            1. I heard the Vikings stadium PA using a song from Kill ‘Em All last sunday and had a true ‘fuck, I’m old’ moment.

              1. I had that moment when I heard “Welcome to the Jungle” on the classic rock station. Fuck I bought that album in high school!

              2. How about the Honda commercial where the family is driving down the road singing Crazy Train? What the fuck is that about?

                1. Advertising eats all. That is why you have to have something going for you besides encouraging 14 year olds to shock their parents. No matter how edgy something is now, it won’t be edgy twenty years from now. So you have to have some musical value to back it up. Crazy Train is a crap song. The only reason it ever sold was because of the image it put out. Now it is in Honda commercials and what does it have left? Nothing.

                  1. If you really understood how riffs work from the standpoint of dynamic and function in a song, you’d know Crazy Train is an absolutely amazing tune. You are putting down Rhoades because you are not sophisticated enough to understand what he was doing there, John. There is a reason real guitarist rank him very high.

                    1. Rhoads, not Rhoades. Pretty sure the squirrels did that. Would not make that mistake in ten zillion years.

                    2. If you really understood how riffs work from the standpoint of dynamic and function in a song, you’d know Crazy Train is an absolutely amazing tune.

                      aye

                      Rhoads pooped more talent than most musicians and composers will ever dream of possessing.

                    3. Fair enough Chris. The guitar riff is really good and Rhoades was really talented. I was a bit too hard on Crazy Train.

                  2. Admitedly, i hate the lyrics on that tune. Ironically, Ozzy, as a musician friend put is one of the least embarrassing to cover lyricist in rock. Doing Led Zep covers can be hell on a guy who doesn’t want to sound like an idiot.

                    In my humble opinion the best sounding albums in mainstream pop/rock in terms of production and quality, and not counting Dark Side of the Moon with its mind blowing production values that can’t be rated were the three albums The Moody Blues put out in the late seventies one after the other, Days of Future Passed, In Search of the Lost Chord, and On the Threshold of a Dream. If it makes me a fag to appreciate the innovation there, so be it.

                    1. Late sixties not late seventies, Gemini Dreams was definitely not their high point. Jeez, did I accidentally buy the decaf>

            2. Kill ’em All will forever remain a classic.
              “Whiplash”, “No Remorse”, “Seek & Destroy”…. awesome!

              Not to mention taking out Mustaine’s stupid “horny gas station attendant” lyrics from “The Mechanix” and creating “The Four Horsemen”.

          2. I would pay money to see a monkey scream and play power chords, actually.

            1. No kidding. Bonus points if its smoking a cigarette.

              1. Pretty sure we just described Slash to a t.

              2. Observer: “HOLY SHIT I CAN’T BELIEVE IT!”
                Monkey: “Same here. I just bought this amp last week and it’s already crapping out on me.”

          3. The trick is to make heavier music that also still has pop hooks

            No, that is a surefire recipe for shit. That’s how you get Disturbed. That’s how you get fucking Staind. If there’s one thing metal should not be, it’s approachable.

            1. No that is how you get the good Black Sabbath and the high end British metal from the early 80s. Iron Maiden or Judas Priest are both highly approachable. Staind and Disturb just suck because they suck not because metal shouldn’t be approachable.

              1. The Black Album had what you are talking about, which is why it was either the end or the beginning of the end of Metallica.

                There is a reason Va Tech (and Louisville) use Enter Sandman for their football teams entrances.

            2. If there’s one thing metal should not be, it’s approachable.

              Which is why the Black Album and everything after it sucks. It’s approachable.

              1. The first 4 Metallica albums are extremely approachable, and still decent metal.

            3. There are some Disturbed songs that don’t totally suck, though Staind has no redeeming qualities.

            4. Aww, don’t group Distrubed in with Staind. At least Disturbed has a really cool maniacal laugh going on.

              1. Disturbed has Popeye doing vocals. It’s shit.

            5. As soon as I read “pop hooks” I knew John was completely out of his element.

              1. Music is music. You can’t say “well its the genre” to justify its flaws.

                1. Personally I can’t stand that thrash crap with the drop-d, double bass, and some dude making animal noises. Granted I respect the skill and practice it takes to play that tight and fast, but I can’t stand the music.
                  What you call a flaw may, to someone else, be a feature.

                2. There are people who say Tchaikovsky sucks because it’s approachable. Music doesn’t have to be overly complex to be enjoyed.

                  1. And those people would be wrong Bones. Music snobs ruin music. They are what ruined classical and jazz. You know why we don’t produce any classical music anyone wants to listen to anymore? Because fuck head music snobs decided that music couldn’t be listenable to be good. So sure enough people stopped listening.

                    1. Music snobs ruin music.

                      Says the self professed rock snob.

                      Nice.

                    2. John|12.6.11 @ 12:31PM|#
                      You know why we don’t produce any classical music anyone wants to listen to anymore?

                      This has to be one of the best unintentionally funny comments I’ve read in a long time. (Yeah, yeah, I know that modern orchestral and opera music often gets thrown into the “classical” bin where music is sold, but still, it’s amusing to think of something new as also classical.)

                3. Oh bullshit, John!

                  That beer is a terrible fucking wine. I mean they’re both drinks, right?

              2. “Approachable” is not quite the right word to be arguing over. I agree that good metal is catchy and maybe even approachable. But it also requires a whole bunch of technical fuck-you-you-can’t-do-this skill and a definite fuck-you attitude. The great bands combine all these qualities, and the shitty ones don’t get any of this shit right.

                1. I would agree with that Warty. The best metal to me is really more like rocked out prog rock with really good musicians doing interesting “who the fuck thought of doing that” kind of things while still managing to be catchy.

                  1. I think part of the appeal of early Metallica was that if you had mediocre skills and some friends with instruments, you could play much of their stuff and not sound half bad.

                    1. That, and it was fun. What was the last fun thing Metallica put out?

                    2. What was the last fun thing Metallica put out?

                      Justice

                    3. I’d say as late as ‘Of Wolf and Man’ as a single. That song would have fit on Ride the Lightening.

                  2. like, say, Opeth?

                2. Goddamn right, Warty! Except that it needs to be catchy OR approachable.

                  Fucking bow to the pure awesomeness that is Meshuggah.

                  1. Meshuggah is awesome musically, but I can’t stand cookie monster vocals.

            6. This sounds like the same attitude that I see from a lot of members of the Turner Classic Movies boards: people who whinge and moan if TCM is scheduling something popular like North By Northwest again and acting as though you’re somehow a better fan if you prefer more obscure movies.

              1. Except that Metallica’s first four records are not exactly obscure.
                The Black Album was embraced by the general public for the same reason it was generally despised by many of the fans of the first four.
                It was no longer metal. It was pop with a lot of distortion.

                1. In highschool, I knew several people who thought the Black album was Metallica’s first. I wanted to weep.

            7. That’s how you get Disturbed.

              “Oooh ah ah ah ah. unh. unh.”

          4. This whole comment should be prefaced with “In my opinion”.

            Any fucking monkey can scream and play power chords.

            The fact that so few do it successfully means it’s art to someone. Not everyone (anyone?) wants to listen to Nickleback.

            1. I wouldn’t listen to Nickleback either. Most suck at it. Most bands suck. It is hard to be really good.

              1. 90% of everything is crap.

            1. That monkey is wearing a HIM t-shirt. That monkey is not metal at all. That monkey is a fucking fag.

              1. Don’t judge too harshly. Little known fact: Monkeys are not allowed under law to dress themselves.

                1. the only proper attire for a monkey is a very well tailored business suit.

        2. I am a rock snob. And sorry, that shit can’t stay at the inn. It needs to go elsewhere. If the metal snobs won’t have them, maybe they should try the rap people.

      2. What the hell is it then?
        I have no idea, but I don’t think it’s heavy metal. I’d put it more in the rock category, but then again, I’m a metal snob.

        1. I am a rock snob. And sorry, that shit can’t stay at the inn. It needs to go elsewhere. If the metal snobs won’t have them, maybe they should try the rap people.

      3. “you have to do more than just scream and bang on the drums”

        What Metallica was this John guy thinking of?

    3. I know Metallica pissed some people off with the black album and later stuff but let’s not get stupid. They were at the forefront of thrash metal and have influenced everyone that has followed. Their early stuff still sounds better than 95% of the stuff today.

      Please put the snob stick away.

      1. And Elvis and the Beatles, arguably, influenced everyone that followed in rock. Just because they were an influence doesn’t mean nobody does it better now.

        1. Yeah but Elvis and the Beatles really were better than the crap being done now.

          1. And they were all influenced by the blues musicians before them, many of whom were better than the Beatles. But the Beatles hit at the right time and despite not being as good as the Stones, people still think they are. They’re not…in my opinion.

            1. The Beatles are not as good as the Stones. But you have to really appreciate blues to totally get the Stones. And most people don’t appreciate blues.

              And I am not sure the Beatles were influenced by too many Blues musicians. I love the Beatles, don’t get me wrong. But they were not bluesman. They were pure pop artists. They were influenced by Elvis, Buddy Holly and Motown as much as anything, none of which is a bad thing.

              1. John is overrated. George and Paul wrote the better songs. Not to mention John was an enormous cockbag. If you’re gonna be an arrogant asshole, be Robert Plant and really sell it.

                1. John was one of the great singers and front men in rock history. He has twenty times the voice plant does. John also wrote a tremendous range of songs. Maybe Paul wrote better songs. That is up for debate. But George didn’t write any decent songs until the very end. You could say that George wrote the best songs on Abby Road and Let It Be. But you can’t say that about any other Beatles record.

                  The problem Lennon and McCartney both had was that the didn’t understand how badly they needed each other. After they go so famous, there was no one who but each other who had the stature to tell them no. So that meant there was no one correct their excesses and make them improve their songs.

                  For example, McCartney told Lennon that Revolution was too slow and needed to be speeded up to be a single. And sure enough when it was it turned into one of the greatest rock songs ever. McCartny is the one who wrote the funky baseline to Come Together after Lennon had written it like a Chuck Berry song. Lennon made McCartney get rid of a lot of cheesy lyrics and made the band rock out more.

                  Left alone, they both produced a lot of crap because it allowed them to indulge their worst instincts.

                  1. That would explain why I love the Beatles, but can’t stand Wings.

                  2. Did you seriously say John had a better voice than Plant? Better front man? Wow. You either are blinded by love for the Beatles or by hatred for Zeppelin (I don’t even know your opinion about them, but damn) to say such a thing.

                    I mean we just agreed about it all being subjective and everything but now you’re just talking crazy.

        2. Josquin des Prez influenced everybody who followed him.

      2. IMO, the Black Album wasn’t the end for them. It was the beginning of the end. It was still an overall decent album, though not the caliber we’d grown to expect. It represented the start of the decline (although, you could argue AJFA was the start of the decline, merely due to the lack of any bass tobe heard). Load was when they jumped truly and eternally.

        1. It was not an overall decent album. It was an abomination.

          1. Ok, I’ll concede that. I guess it was just infinitely better than that which followed it with Load. Load makes the Black Album look remarkable by comparison, which testifies to how absolute the fall was.

            1. Strange.. I enjoyed Load because it got such a bad rap from the Black album converts. It sure the fuck wasn’t “Metallica”, but it was nice and different to jam along to something not being played on the FM every hour.

              1. Load is quite possibly the greatest 70s hard rock album ever recorded.

      3. Actually when I listen to old crap like For Whom the Bell Tolls, etc. I can’t help but notice how crappy it is. Today’s stuff is lightyears beyond what metal was in 1984. So much progress has been made.

        1. Progress? What band today even comes close to the stuff that Metallica released in the 80’s?

          Most of what’s out today sounds either highly derivative of earlier bands or is overly technical stuff written for other musicians.

          1. The Sword!

          2. DEVOURMENT!

          3. Lamb of God
            Gojira
            Katatonia
            Mastodon
            Ihsahn
            Meshuggah

            and any number of others that I needn’t bother mentioning.

            Metallica was an innovative band, but never a good one. Lars was never anything other than a barely competent drummer and everyone else was slightly above average at best.

  9. I’d like to see the holy trinity of Metallica albums played in full and then watch Lars Ulrich self immoliate.

    1. I’d pay good money to see that. Either part.

      1. I’m in. Light him up right after Dyers’ Eve.

    2. He is the laziest drummer ever. One of the best parts of Apocalyptica is hearing Metallica songs played with a drummer who actually gives a shit.

      1. A drummer who’s not lazy is, like, really stock, man.

  10. They didn’t want to be around for Europe’s Cliff Burton surprise!

    1. So, why are those guys growling like that?

      1. Growling is to vocals as distortion is to guitars. I don’t even know why they still sell amps with a clean channel.

    2. I’m going to see them and “Mayhem” friday. BLACK METAL LOL

  11. Here’s some of my preferred brand of heavy metal.

    1. Note to self:

      Never click on an Epi link.

      Ever.

      1. I fell for a spoof?

        I hate the internet sometimes.

    1. So are they.

      1. So are a lot of people. You can’t tell if music is any good or not until at least ten years after it is released. A good decade lets the crap and the fads fade away.

        1. Just curious, John. Have you heard their “Symptom of the Universe“? I’m asking b/c of some of your comments about Metallica.

          1. Of course. I like that song.

            1. The reason why I asked is that to me, it sounds like proto-thrash. I could hear Metallica playing that song.

          2. This is a great cover of Symptom.

            1. Though as far as BS covers go, it’s a toss up between Pantera’s Planet Caravan and Type O Neg’s Black Sabbath (From the Satanic Perspective)

    2. You know, Ozzy has never sung an on-key note in his entire life. How is growling any more aesthetically displeasing than that?

      1. And I fucking adore Ozzy.

      2. No he never has. But I like Ozzy and really like Black Sabbath. I guess there is no accounting for taste.

  12. Lars Ulrich: bad Drummer or worst drummer?

    1. Worst drummer ever would be anyone who played for The Cult.
      Don’t get me wrong, I like a lot of their hits, but damn the drumming sucks ass.

    2. Well, he can keep time, so he can’t be Worst.

    3. Bad drummer. Vini “Mad Dog” Lopez from the first two Springsteen records get my vote for worst drummer.

    4. I would go with Lee Kerslake who played on the first two Ozzy Osborne albums. Just awful sloppy crap drumming.

      1. But still better than Mike Bordin’s re-recorded drums on the remasters.

    5. Lars Ulrich: bad Drummer or worst drummer?

      Certainly one of the worst.

      Well, he can keep time, so he can’t be Worst.

      So can a drum machine…and it will have better feel and put more emotion into the performance.

    1. I am blocked from youtube. So I have no idea who you just posted.

      1. Crystal Mountain by Death. I’m curious to see if it’s approachable to a non-fan of the genre.

        1. Not bad. Old style heavy metal. The music is not bad. But I hate the style of singing. It is just screaming.

            1. I likes this…….

            2. Thanks, I really enjoyed that.

            3. This I like. I just took my kid (she’s 8) to see Trans Siberian Orchestra on Sunday. We’re more of a neoclassical and power metal family.

          1. I have limits on how much Cookie Monster vocals I can tolerate, but Chuck Schuldiner wasn’t even a screamer. You are just very old.

            1. I am. I listen to an odd mix of crap. But the older I get the more I look blues and jazz and older country. All the music I listen to that is not classical is some combination of those.

              1. blues and jazz

                “The older I get, the whiter I become.”

                Actually, I like blues and jazz just fine, but fuck, talk about stagnant genres. This is what happens when black people abandon their rightful music to old white guys.

                1. I find myself listening more blues these days too.

                2. Sometimes you take music as far as it will go. I don’t care who tries it, the best blues and jazz has probably already been produced.

              2. If jazz and blues and country are in your wheelhouse, Pantera’s GSTK might be the metal album you’d appreciate. Except for Suicide Note Part 2 at least.

                1. Also the Phil Anselmo/Pepper Keenan super group “Down.”

            2. I never tire of Corpsegrinder’s vocals.

              I remember having to special order the cassette inserts with the lyrics as they wouldn’t even sell them in stores.

    1. Anybody wearing a Symphony X shirt has to be at least a little bit cool. Last time I saw them was in a little club in Long Island.

      I still am pining to see Opeth live.

      1. Wait until they go back to being a metal band. My sister saw them on their current tour and was very sad. They’re dead to me.

        1. I kind of like Opeth’s current phase of trying to be Porcupine Tree.

          1. Let PT be PT.

            Opeth sucks at it.

        2. It was a phenomenal concert. “Slither” came across just awesome live. Didn’t (and still don’t particularly) care for it in the studio version, but live… just powerful.

          They (Opeth) are one metal band I would rank as doing some of the most interesting things in the last 10 years or so.
          -K

          1. I would have agreed until Heritage. Fucking terrible.

        3. Wait until [Opeth] go[es] back to being a metal band.

          ^^THIS^^

          I saw their most current tour twice, and it sucked both times. It was a great letdown after having seen their 20th Anniversary show in NYC last year.

    2. Wow, that guy is pretty kick-ass.

    3. Wow, it is awesome how metalizing thing makes thing more awesome….

  13. who pays good money to hear Metallica play “The Black Album” all the way through?

    They’re not paying good money, they’re paying Euros.

    1. Threadwinner

  14. Are we allowing Progressive Metal in this thread?

    Ooh Song

    1. Sure. Just nothing from the last Opeth album, please.

    2. Speaking of prog rock. I actually busted out Songs From the Wood the other night. It was better than I remember it being.

    3. Thank you for bringing King’s X into this ! (even though Ooh Song was never my favorite) You know, I’ve heard that when Dave Mustaine met Doug Pinnick he was literally speechless with hero-worship, and if you know anything about Dave Mustaine, you know what a feat that was…

      1. Ive heard some of the big name Grunge guys credit (blame?) King’s X for the creation of grunge.

        1. The blame rests squarely on the Pixies.

          1. Didn’t Melvins have something to do with it as well? Or are they considered part of it?

            1. The Melvins are like Velvet Underground, nobody listened to them, but everyone who did started a band.

          2. Warty|12.6.11 @ 12:51PM|#

            The blame rests squarely on the Pixies.

            I blame KISS.

        2. Kurt Cobain says it was King Crimson.

          1. King Crimson is way too different from Nirvana to deserve any blame. The Pixies must die.

    4. Well since someone requested Prog Metal

    5. Love King’s X. Almost like a sunnier, more soulful Alice in Chains.

  15. I saw KMFDM play their entire Nihil album on tour in 1995. Probably the best show they put on.

  16. Rodrigo y Gabriela covering One

    1. And if you arent familiar with them, 11:11 is a freaking good album.

  17. Would you prefer they played “St. Anger” all the way through?

  18. There is something more painful than hearing Metallica play Metallica, listening to Avril Lavigne play Metallica.

    1. There is something more painful than that. Faith Hill doing Janis Joplin.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPseJvXVVfo

      1. You are a monster for even daring to note that. I couldn’t resist hearing the wretchedness, and I am forever angry at you for that.

        1. I made it 42 seconds

          1. 21 seconds for me.

      2. While dressed as a pirate, apparently.

      3. I couldn’t resist listening to it. Holy fuck, is that bad.

      4. KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!

      5. Aw, that’s blocked at work. What a shame. Too bad I’ll forget about it by the time I get home.

        1. This is one time I’m glad youtube is blocked at work, because I know I will forget it by the time I get home.

          Some things cannot be unseen, and I am glad I will not have to be unable to unsee that.

      6. That is an abomination.

      7. I don’t know; the Baby I Love Your Way/Free Bird medly is pretty bad.

        1. You had to go nuclear with it didn’t you?

        2. You can’t mix Frampton and Skynyrd. In fact, Frampton should be avoided at all costs.

          1. And Freebird should not be covered by anyone who wasn’t alive when it was first performed.

      8. There is something more painful than that. Faith Hill doing Janis Joplin.

        I’ll see your Faith Hill doing Janis Joplin and raise you Celine Dion doing AC/DC.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULmC8JTTVy0

        Bonus pain: Sheryl Crow doing Guns N Roses.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFU9qBEvEVw

        1. Now I’m really glad youtube is blocked at work.

        2. Trying to think. Last show I saw at Red Rocks was like two days before I moved to Maine. Zombie/Pantera. Very loud.

  19. I gonna fuck this thread with some awesome Radiohead……

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vFaoA7t2RE

  20. I heard that Ozzy is doing a new Black Sabbath album. Please god… please, don’t auto tune him. Just give him some quaaludes and let him get on with it.

  21. As far as metal goes: if it’s not Finnish, it’s probably crap. Link goes to Finnish melo. death band I recently found.

    1. New post with 1000% more link and 100% less SugarFree’ing said link!

      1. I’ll see your Kalmah and raise you an Insomnium.

  22. All this arguing over personal music tastes. Pointless. Everybody knows Anal Cunt is the world’s greatest rock and roll band.

  23. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3uvf0cn0jo

    You can never go wrong with Candlemass. For music and for lulz.

  24. I realize that value is subjective, but seriously, who pays good money to hear Metallica play “The Black Album” all the way through?

    Every white 13-30 year old circa 1991-93.

    1. Other than the ones who were Metallica fans before that point, you mean. Seriously, I don’t know anyone who was a Metallica fan prior to 1990 who thinks that highly of the Black Album. I liked it well enough at the time, but even then it seemed incredibly tame compared to their previous albums.

      I actually left the show early on the Black Album tour back in 1991. Boring as hell. The AJFA tour, by contrast, was awesome.

      1. I actually left the show early on the Black Album tour back in 1991. Boring as hell. The AJFA tour, by contrast, was awesome.

        The Black Album was basically Metallica saying, “We’re tired of just making money, we’re going to make STUPID money!” I give them credit, at least, for catching the last wave of late 80s-early 90s hair band pop-metal when it was still popular and taking it to the bank, right before Nirvana killed whatever semblance of fun was left in rock music stone dead.

        But you’re right that it’s not that great–any hair band at that time could have done the Black Album and gotten a huge chunk of radio play, it’s just that Metallica had a sizeable hard-core audience already built in with room to grow. Like Motley Crue did with “Dr. Feelgood,” it was the right album at the right time to, if nothing else, cement their permanent place as a mainstream band. I guess it’s no coincidence that Bob Rock produced both of those albums.

        And yeah, their AJFA concerts were incredible. I still have a VHS tape of one of the concerts from that tour somewhere in storage, and even on tape the energy of the band just pulses through the screen. AJFA probably would have been their true mainstream breakout moment if Cliff Burton hadn’t died.

      2. I became a fan with Load and I rank the black album as the worst in the catalog (yes, I think it’s worse than St. Anger…).

  25. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

    No thread is complete without Immortal

  26. If anyone cares, here’s my jazz version of “Master of Puppets” from a few years ago.

    Cuban Jazz Puppets

  27. Jesus god, save me from heavy metal snobs.

    I like Disturbed. There, I said it. Fuck you.

    I also like Static-X and Wayne’s new Pighammer album.

    Hell, I even like Evanescence.

    Suck it.

    1. Hey, I’m with you. Throw in Fear Factory, Spineshank, and Korn and you’ve got a nice little mix.

      1. I listen to a bunch of widely different kinds of music. I can’t stand rap and hip-hop, though. But check my iTunes and you’ll find bluegrass, Johnny Cash, Mozart, Brandi Carlile – along with Megadeth, just about everything Metallica has issued, Static-X, System of a Down, The Cranberries, Bob Marley, B.B. King, Queen, Blondie, ELO, Frank Sinatra, Louis Armstrong, the Mamas and the Papas, and more. I need a bigger iPod now.

  28. I love the Black Album although Master of Puppets is nice as well.

  29. I find the music of more technical/progressive type of metal bands to be kinda hollow (ie, Dream Theater). I guess if I knew more than 4 chords I’d like them.

    Anybody remember the movie “Trick or Treat?” Reading this thread, I kept thinking of the line “no wimps! no false metal!”

    Nirvana is overrated and ruined music. After that, rock became mopey, introspective, and dull. The backlash to that was the shallow likes of nu metal, complete with Fred Durst and co.

  30. And here we get John in a nutshell

    And those people would be wrong Bones.

    They disagree with John, so they are wrong.

    Music snobs ruin music. They are what ruined classical and jazz.

    John’s subjective opinion stated as fact. (note, neither of these things are ruined).

    You know why we don’t produce any classical music anyone wants to listen to anymore?

    Already covered above, but if you mean orchestral music…huge recent resurgence. It is what the kids are listening to.

    Because fuck head music snobs decided that music couldn’t be listenable to be good.

    Again…people disagree with John, so they are wrong. Couldn’t be that these “music snobs” have different taste, or GASP, are able to appreciate things John is too provincial for.

    So sure enough people stopped listening.

    When did this happen? Music has lost its popular appeal? Who knew.

    John treats all subjects the same. Politics, culture, chicks. Impressive.

    For the record…Metallica has ALWAYS been overrated, imho. At their best they were only alright…primarily because they have a drummer with no feeling and most of their songs have no emotional weight. It ain’t about lack of hooks. It is about lack of an engaging sound/timbre/feel/emotion.

    1. And it’s a good thing we have you and MNG to come along and bitch about it all the time too. Thanks for your service.

      1. No problem.
        ;^)

    2. Great comments, Neu.

  31. The Beatles are not as good as the Stones. But you have to really appreciate blues to totally get the Stones. And most people don’t appreciate blues.

    I think the more you appreciate the blues, the more you totally get how bad the stones were/are. Liking the stones is no problem…but if you try to use good blues as your objective standard, they are misguided brit-pop trying to emulate something more interesting (like the majority of their peers).

  32. Some prog/experimental metal:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

  33. I’d sell my soul to the devil if there was one to see death live and having Chuck Schuldiner back with us

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