Reason Morning Links: Obama Shakes up His Inner Circle, Mitt Romney Refuses to Make a FOX Appearance, Herman Cain Pleads His Innocence on Jimmy Kimmel's Show

• William M. Daley, the financial sector veteran hired to replace Rahm(bo) Emanuel as President Barack Obama's chief of staff, and to smooth things over with big money types, has been demoted. 
• Forty percent of respondents in an online poll of 1,005 people don't like Occupy Wall Street. The Boston Herald suggests that "the Occupy Wall Street movement may be starting to lose its luster with the American public."
• Russell Pearce, the Arizona state senator who, with the help of his crony crapitalist buddies in the private prison industry, authored the bill that put a Taser target on the back of every brown-skinned person in Arizona, is facing a recall vote.  
• The luxuries of being a frontrunner: Mitt Romney refuses to go on FOX's Special Report to answer semi-hard questions from Brett Baier.  
• Herman Cain, on the other hand, went on Jimmy Kimmel Live to address allegations that he is a sex criminal. 
• Joe Frazier is dead. 
• On Fast and Furious, Attorney General Eric Holder pivots from mea culpa to gun control: "As you all know, the trafficking of firearms across our Southwest Border has long been a serious problem - one that has contributed to approximately 40,000 deaths in the last five years." (Some would blame prohibition.) 

New at Reason.tv: "Kurt Loder on Film: The Good, the Bad, & the Godawful"

Comments

[Suki]

Conrad Murray has first meal in jail.

[?Por qu]

the bill that put a Taser target on the back of every brown-skinned person in Arizona

Why won't America take libertarians seriously?

[Suki]

authored the bill that put a Taser target on the back of every brown-skinned person in Arizona, is facing a recall vote.

No editorial bias there.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Drink!

[rac3rx]

Feck!

[JEP]

Girls!

[Ray]

That would be an ecumenical matter!

[teh rael o2]

just calling a spade a spade

[Suki]

RACIST!

[teh rael o2]

pearce is fat n white

[irwin mann]

I'm sick of misinformed statements such as "the bill that put a Taser target on the back of every brown-skinned person in Arizona". Read the damn bill. Knowledge cures ignorance and that is the most ignorant statement one can make.

[pmains]

Read up on section 287G of the Immigration and Nationality Act and the 287G program. SB1070 was written to circumvent federal law and, specifically, to circumvent civil rights protections. Not coincidentally, a certain local sheriff was kicked out of the 287G program for civil rights violations.

The bill is brilliant in that it misdirects everyone's attention, like a magician waving a handkerchief as he's taking the rabbit out of the hat. People read the bill, know nothing of the larger context, but feel satisfied that they are "educated" on the relevant issues.

[irwin mann]

Not so.

[pmains]

Believe what you want. Sheriff Joe is shredding documents and dragging out Melendres v. Arpaio for a reason. He and his deputies have arrested countless Hispanics without reasonable suspicion.

Local police departments and sheriff's offices often resort to racial profiling (whether or not they admit to it) when attempting to enforce our immigration laws. Section 287G set up a program to educate local organizations on how to respect civil rights while enforcing federal immigration law. MCSO was incapable of doing both of those things simultaneously, so their permission slip was yanked. SB1070 requires that local law enforcement enforce federal immigration law in spite of the fact that 287G of the INA requires the opposite.

[Gus]

"Local police departments and sheriff's offices often resort to racial profiling (whether or not they admit to it) when attempting to enforce our immigration laws."

And this doesn't make sense to you? Should they go into nursing home to check out the immigration status of 90-year-old las mujeres blancas?

[Heroic Mulatto]

And this doesn't make sense to you? Should they go into nursing home to check out the immigration status of 90-year-old las mujeres blancas?

Why not? We're still trolling nursing homes for former Nazi prison camp guards.

[pmains]

Of course police officers should not be going into nursing homes and demanding that everyone show their papers. Neither should they be hanging out in Hispanic neighborhoods and demanding that everyone show their papers. There is a reason why we have a 4th Amendment.

The irony of all of this is that Pearce styles himself a champion of the Constitution. He's not terribly bright, but he's read a lot of W. Cleon Skousen books, used to go to Skousen talks, and believes himself to be some sort of expert. Naturally, defending the Constitution means doing whatever he damn well feels like while calling his opponents unpatriotic and traitors.

[teh rael o2]

287G superceeds SB1070. pearce was evidently ignorant

[pmains]

Pearce wasn't ignorant. He has a history of writing bills that challenge federal authority. For example, his bill explicitly allowing states to nullify federal law.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Pierce was streets ahead.

[pmains]

And if you don't get the reference, you're already streets behind.

[Lord Humungus]

The Market for Kidneys, Livers and Lungs
It already exists, but unwise laws push it dangerously underground.
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....TopOpinion

This morbid fraternity is the result of a near-universal ban on organ trading. Organs should be a "gift," goes the government-approved narrative, an act of selfless generosity. A beautiful sentiment, yes; but for those without a willing loved one to donate or years to wait on an ever-growing list, altruism can be a lethal prescription.

The only solution is more organs. In the U.S., we need a regulated system in which compensation is provided by a third party (government, a charity or insurance) to well-informed, healthy donors. Rewards such as contributions to retirement funds, tax breaks, loan repayments, tuition vouchers for children and so on would not attract people who might otherwise rush to donate on the promise of a large sum of instant cash in their pockets.

[Suki]

How long before the US government "gift" definition is identical to the Chinese one and the prisoner harvesting begins? It is probably in Obamacare someplace.

[robc]

I refer thee to the many of the writings of Larry Niven.

He has been writing anti-harvesting fiction for nearly 50 years now.

[Suki]

When did China stop harvesting organs from prisoners?

[robc]

???

[teh rael o2]

still do, but the international grey market has come under scrutiny.

[Drake]

Then we better start harvesting boosterspice soon.

[Ice Nine]

How long before the US government "gift" definition is identical to the Chinese one and the prisoner harvesting begins?

Arizonans want to know.

[Tonio]

Hopefully they'll have organ cloning down before this becomes an issue, Suki.

[Quetzalcoatl]

The Market for Kidneys, Livers and Lungs

a.k.a. "France"

[Lord Humungus]

or a British menu.

[AlmightyJB]

Hey I just woke up in a bathtub full of ice and my kidneys are gone. What do I do? I would have called 911 but I figured blogging on Reason would be a better idea.

[Cabeza de Vaca]

Take some advil it will help with the inflammation.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A year ago I went in for kidney stones and they asked me if I had a kidney removed because the scan showed only one, which was news to me. SO YOU THINK BEFORE YOU MAKE INSENSITIVE JOKES LIKE THAT.

[Field Marshall Gill]

I see what you did there.

[T]

Look, just because you lost a kidney through poor life choices doesn't mean the rest of us have to tiptoe around your sensibilities. Make better choices and you won't lose the other one.

[Tonio]

It sounds like he was born with only one kidney.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Unilateral renal agenesis. But do I complain? No. Do I try to get on disability? No. Do I play on people's sympathies by making a big deal out of it like certain people and their diabetes? No.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Sooooo... were they phantom stones then?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I do have the one kidney, which is apparently more than capable of forming jagged chunks of ureter-shredding, prostate-inflaming, dick-scraping calcium or whatever the fuck.

[Sparky]

It's not a stone, it's an adventure. Only once so far have I had to go under the smasher to reduce a stone almost an inch across to something I could piss out.

[SugarFree]

Hey!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Oh, not you. Someone else.

[SugarFree]

grumble

[Fist of Etiquette]

"Real nice last remaining kidney you got there. Be a shame something happened to it."

[teh rael o2]

take bluto's advice to drink heavily !

[P Brooks]

I see a Congressional Medal of Freedom in Eric Holder's future.

[Restoras]

Impressive, Mr. Riggs, you have taken ownership of morning links and are a responsible and reliable...whatever you are. Morning Links Guy, I guess. I foresee big things for you at Reason.

[Live Free or Diet]

Unlike the Daily Brickbat guy, Charles Oliver, who puts them up in groups and back dates them.

[Clich? Bandit]

DONT GET ME STARTED!!! I have been banging that drum for THREE YEARS.

Daily my ass.

[teh rael o2]

Credit Suisse asked to hand over U.S. client dataBy Katie Reid and Martin de Sa'Pinto ZURICH | Tue Nov 8, 2011 8:03am EST

ZURICH (Reuters) - Credit Suisse will hand over details of [WEALTHY] Americans with hidden Swiss accounts to the Swiss government, bringing U.S. authorities one step closer to obtaining names of alleged tax cheats.

U.S. authorities, which suspect tens of thousands of Americans of evading billions of dollars in taxes through Swiss private banks in recent years, have been conducting a widening criminal investigation into scores of Swiss banks, including Credit Suisse.

The Swiss government has been in talks with U.S. authorities for months to secure a deal that would end investigations into U.S. clients at 11 Swiss banks in return for payment of fines and the transfer of names of clients suspected of evading taxes.

Switzerland managed to strike a deal with the U.S. authorities in 2009 for UBS, which involved UBS paying a fine of $780 million, allowing it to avert criminal charges. It later also revealed details of around 4,450 clients.
http://www.reuters.com/article.....IO20111108
_

looks like teh [WEALTHY] took their boosch tax cuts to switzerland !

[DesigNate]

I wonder how many of them will be using their Obama tax cuts to donate to his campaign, hoping for a sweet Solyndra type deal.

But you're right o2, it's all Bush and those evil republicans. It's not like half of Obama's cabinet couldn't be bothered to pay their taxes or anything.

[Jordan]

And? It's their money. I advocate giving tax cuts to everyone. Swiss bank accounts for all!

[teh IRS]

wait right there willie, be w u shortly!

[Ray]

The smart ones took their money out years ago.

[Lord Humungus]

France cuts frantically as Italy nears debt spiral
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fin.....piral.html

The belt-tightening plan -- the second package since August, taking total cuts to ?112bn -- include a 5pc super-tax on big firms, a rise in VAT on restaurants and construction, and cuts on pensions, schools, health, and welfare. It is the latest squeeze in a relentless campaign of fiscal tightening across the eurozone.

"It is like the 1930s: imposing austerity on countries already in recession is the way into a death spiral," said Danny Blanchflower, a former UK rate-setter.

[Restoras]

All those car burnings by discontented youths are about to ratchet up.

[T]

It's like those disaffected youths have never read Bastiat. Don't they know that won't help?

[Live Free or Diet]

Or Henry Hazlitt.

[Live Free or Diet]

Or Henry Hazlitt.

[Mike M.]

Gee, and I thought the know-it-alls told us that the recession ended a while ago.

[Chupacabra]

This is all totally unexpected.

[Restoras]

+1. I sniggered.

[FlyoverCountry]

RAAAAAAAACIST!!11

[Proprietist]

How utterly racist. I see that epithet.

[NotSure]

I saw another article that claimed they were cutting 63 billion, whatever it is, compared to the debt mountains that they are created, this is not even close to enough.

[Old Bull Lee]

"Surprisingly, lower-income voters have the least favorable opinion of the Occupy movement, while those making more than $100,000 are more supportive."

You mean actual poor people aren't sympathetic to rich people who are jealous of richer people?

[Suki]

+1

[teh rael o2]

didnt know college students were rich

[Quetzalcoatl]

You have to be rich to afford certain colleges.

[Suki]

Which ones require every student (or their parents) to pay their own way? Even Harvard and Yale have full scholarships for the financially needy and to add the right pigmentation to group photos.

[Suki]

*and other assistance to add the right pigmentation to group photos.

[teh rael o2]

rrRR AAA CISTT !11!!

[Lord Humungus]

Targeted tax credits don't help the economy
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

One of the programs was a $2,400 tax credit, available from 1978 through 1994, for employers who hired economically disadvantaged people, including Vietnam vets. But a 1992 Labor Department Inspector General's audit found that it "was not an effective or economical means of helping target group members obtain jobs."

Time and again, the costs of targeted tax credits exceeded benefits for most businesses. Those who do take part use the tax credit mainly to subsidize hires that would have happened anyway.

[teh rael o2]

wapo doesnt include state tax credits

[robc]

Isnt this old news?

Targeted stimulus doesnt work either. Or untargeted stimulus, for that matter.

General tax cuts work.

[teh rael o2]

unless the $$$ go to switzerland

http://www.reuters.com/article.....IO20111108

[Gus]

So your position is that people that have money left over after being taxed can't deposit it in Swiss banks?

Why do you hate the Chocolate-chomping, Matterhorn Monkeys?

[teh rael o2]

evidently targeted stimulus DOES work...for the swiss...but not the IRS.

[Restoras]

It is old news. Rebates don't help either.

[Quetzalcoatl]

So: what on earth happened to Lucy's article, posted last night? It has been disappeared!

She never got a chance to advise us!

[Suki]

Which one was that?

[Quetzalcoatl]

It was something about drug-abuse levels between various racial categories.
Too raw for reason!

[Beloved Rev. Blue Moon]

Feast your eyes while you can. They didn't clean the mobile site yet.

[Suki]

Ah, now I remember that one.

[Gus]

My conclusion was that black youth lie more than all other ethnic groups except Asians.

[robc]

The obvious criticism is while the drug abuse numbers are adjusted for a number of factors (like wealth), the jail numbers arent.

Before a comparison has been made, both need to be adjusted equivalently.

[anomdebus]

Also, she is comparing dissimilar groups, "youths" vs general population.

I also question the study's definition of "drug abuse". Most likely inflated by instances of being caught and plea bargaining with rehab.

[Lucy Steigerwald]

Actually, thank you for that. I didn't realize it was still there on the mobile site. I didn't mean to imply any thing. I just got too nervous about being sloppy and killed it when I wanted to take it offline for a bit. It's there, just linking to the Time post now.

[Sounds Like Bullshit]

New Study: Blacks Youths Do Fewer Drugs Than All Ethnic Groups Except Asians

Posted by Lucy Steigerwald on Monday Nov 7th at 5:30pm
Maia Szalavitz at Time.com points to a new study of 72,000 youths which says blacks are less likely to use or abuse drugs than most other groups, though they remain five times more likely to be sentenced for a drug crime than whites:

The study, which was published Monday in the Archives of General Psychiatry, controlled for variables like socioeconomic status because rates of severe drug problems tend to be greater amongst the poor. Despite this, Native American youth fared worst, with 15% having a substance use disorder, compared to 9.2% for people of mixed racial heritage, 9.0% for whites, 7.7% for Hispanics, 5% for African Americans and 3.5% for Asians and Pacific Islanders.

The rest here.

Jacob Sullum on California's racial disparity in pot arrests. Other Reasonoids cover recent studies on medical marijuana and youth drug abuse, the now-retracted RAND study which suggested crime went up after medical marijuana dispensaries closed, and the NYPD's stop and frisk policy which lead to five times as many blacks and Latinos being arrested for marijuana possession as whites.

Reason on drugs and drug policy. As well as on race, which includes further looks at the nasty bias in drug war sentencing.

[Live Free or Diet]

It said a recent study showed black kids do less drugs than anybody but asians, but are much more likely to do time for it. Substance abuse rates broke down like this:
indians (15%)
mixed racial heritage (9.2%)
whites (9.0%)
hispanics (7.7%)
blacks (5.0%)
asians (3.5%)
The rest were links to the study and to Reason stories about drug enforcement inequality.

[anomdebus]

It is now available again here

[Fist of Etiquette]

On Fast and Furious, Attorney General Eric Holder pivots from mea culpa to gun control...

Uh-oh.

[T]

I think I missed the mea culpa. Has Holder, at any point, accepted the slightest iota of responsibility for this goatfuck?

[Fist of Etiquette]

The "uh-oh" was because certain elements here who shall remain nameless differ on if there was an ideological underpinning to Fast and Furious, and if it was a ploy to ramp up gun control legislation fever. Whether this statement by Holder could be interpreted as something resembling proof of that is debatable. And I fear it will be debated.

[T]

He seems to be sick this morning.

[T]

I spoke too soon. He showed up.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yeah.

[Lord Humungus]

Obama faces choice on Keystone pipeline: Big Labor or Big Green
http://washingtonexaminer.com/.....-big-green

Further complicating this picture is Obama's decision to delay making a final decision until after the 2012 election. The pipeline creates opposition between two of Obama's most important groups of political supporters: environmentalists who want to force Americans to stop using fossil fuels, and Big Labor, which wants the construction jobs. These groups provide millions of dollars in campaign donors and thousands of campaign workers, and Obama needs both if he is to have any hope of winning a second term. The only way to keep both in his corner is to delay the Keystone decision till after the election. But by then, TransCanada says it may be too late.

[teh rael o2]

Among the pressures on Obama is opposition in Nebraska to the pipeline's route. The state legislature is meeting in special session in Lincoln, the capital, to consider measures aimed at forcing TransCanada to reroute the pipeline away from the Ogallala aquifer, which provides fresh water to 1.5 million people in the region.
http://www.businessweek.com/ne.....ower-.html

[Jay Carney]

The process is an open one in the sense that while State Department runs it, it is required to take in input from a variety of agencies in the executive branch. And it is absolutely going to take into account... the jobs impact, economic impact, public health impact, environmental impact. All these criteria are very important to this process.

In the end, we fully expect that the decision, or the resolution of this issue, the determination will reflect the President's views.

[cw]

In other words, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Joe M]

Poll: Third-party bids by Ron Paul, Bloomberg could garner sizable support

Paul would earn the support of 18 percent of voters in a three-way race with President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney according to the poll, with Romney earning 32 percent and Obama receiving 44 percent.

[Lord Humungus]

hardly shocking since there is a sizable contingent of people who absolutely loathe the two-party stranglehold.

[Joe M]

You know, I look at those numbers, and I think, Romney and Obama are so similar, and the differences so insignificant, that if Paul could start a general election campaign with 18% support, he'd be guaranteed a spot in the debates. Surely he could persuade more people to come over to his views, especially disgruntled liberals who are pissed at Obama for betraying them on wars and civil liberties. If he could take a third of Obama's supporters, he could win it.

[Lord Humungus]

Perhaps my perception is wrong, but I usually think of the Democrat base as being pretty solid. They rarely shift to another candidate - Nader only got what, 2-3% of the vote?

Paul would have to steal more voters from the 'Pubs side to swing a win.

[Gus]

He should just run as a Chicagoan.

[John]

Liberals will never vote for Paul and dump Obama. They don't care about civil liberties and the wars. They only care about hating the "other" and their side winning.

[T]

I'll disagree. There are the occasional democrat still out there who give a shit about civil liberties. (I'm thinking of Scott Henson in particular.) But apparently they cling to the fantasy that elected officials with a D after their name give more of a shit than those with an R. Why they persist in believing this is beyond me.

[Restoras]

Well said.

[Proprietist]

Sort of like the many here who believe voting for elected officials with an R after their name care more about limited government and economic freedom? The differences on both sides are so marginal that it's best if we avoid becoming a captive audience for either "team".

[Joe M]

I know we've had this discussion before, but I'm thinking they could be swayed, and here's why. Paul is getting a big chunk of GOP voters, and he's also getting a lot of independents. Both those groups have a much higher awareness of him because they were able to vote for him in the 2008 primaries, and have been watching his primary campaign again this year. Democrats, for the most part, really have no idea who he is, or what his views are. Give him a chance to get some exposure, and explain his stances on foreign policy, the drug war, and civil liberties (e.g. the Patriot Act), and I could see him draining enough from Obama.

[Joe M]

Because we have to remember, the Democrats are really a mishmash coalition of a lot of different groups. The GOP is just three groups: fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, and military conservatives. The Dems are tons of little interest groups, and there are some people who actually care about stuff like civil liberties more than handouts. They just have never heard a GOP candidate act like they give a shit about those things. But an independent could be different.

[teh rael o2]

ahh, miss the iraq pullout ?

kinda bigg, hard to miss john.

even for a wingnut.

[John]

You mean the one that was scheduled under Bush? And did you miss the illegal war in Libya and the one that continues in Afghanistan and the one that is starting in Uganda. And did you miss the Patriot Act being reauthorized and Obama assasinating an American citizen.

Those were pretty hard to miss even for someone like you who only speaks molespeak and is retarded.

[teh rael o2]

John|11.8.11 @ 9:22AM|#
They don't care about civil liberties and the wars.
_

ur above statement is at odds w the withdrawal.

[John]

No it is not. We are still at war in four different countries and Obama is worse on civili liberties than Bush. Yet, they still will vote for him. Thus, they must not care about those issues.

[MNG]

I'm curious, how is Obama worse on civil liberties than Bush? Mind you, don't report instances in which he is the same, since, you know, you said "worse."

[Restoras]

Maybe he's worse because he's a hypocrite?

[John]

Assasinating a US citizen without trial makes him worse MNG.

[T]

The Bush justice department laid the groundwork for that by asserting the AUMF gave them the authority to do so under certain conditions. Yeah, Obama went ahead and had it done, but the Bush team paved the road to that particular hell.

[Jordan]

Ask the ACLU.

[DesigNate]

Promising to do all of this civil liberties stuff when you're campaigning and then turning into a third term of Bush would pretty much make anyone worse than Bush. At least by Bush's second term the country knew what it was getting. You can't be going around assassinating people, starting wars, not closing down gitmo, waffling on dadt, etc. and expect to be hailed as a better president.

[Proprietist]

I don't like getting involved in your cheerleader catfights, but my theory is that civil liberty violations, war, regulations, etc. always get worse no matter which party is in charge, simply because government keeps growing, the natural invasiveness of advancing technology grows, and laws and policies enacted by the previous/rival administration that they criticized at the time become useful political tools.

Taking a political hit by sidestepping he past promises to repeal these violatory policies is much easier than taking a political hit from, say, a terrorist attack that might have been avoided if only the government was monitoring your every action, strip searching you with anal probes and taking out citizens without a trial.

So yes, Obama has been worse than Bush. And Romney will likely be worse than Obama, and so on. C'est la vie.

[teh IRS]

waay too much "they".

indirect pronouns are the last refuge of scoundrals.

[teh rael o2's daddy]

every day u maek me regret missing my pullout

[RoboCain]

True, where is Code Pink, etc. now that a Democrat is in the White House?

Although if they come back after Cain gets elected, does that make them xomg racist?

[Joe M]

To be fair, Code Pink is the only anti-war group that is still protesting, so I give them full credit for being consistent.

[Lord Humungus]

my mother is a member of the local "Women in Black", anti-war group but still an Obama supporter. I don't know how that works... but the rhetoric has certainly ratcheted down since the Bush days.

[MNG]

That's not true, several groups have been consistently protesting albeit in much smaller numbers and with much smaller press coverage.

[Joe M]

Code Pink is the only one I'm aware of. What other groups are still protesting?

[MNG]

The Answer folks for one (a bunch of nuts, but out there protesting).

[MNG]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.....e_Iraq_War

[Joe M]

A news report from March 2011 for John:

There was little talk at the D.C. protest of the U.S. missile strikes against Moammar Gadhafi's forces in Libya on Saturday, part of an international effort to protect rebel forces.

But the Times Square demonstration that was meant to mark the eighth anniversary of the Iraq invasion quickly became a protest against Saturday's military strikes.

[Joe M]

Point being, those are the type of people who might vote for a real anti-war candidate, if presented with the opportunity.

[Lord Humungus]

Bloomberg's Broken Windows
The mayor's message: When the crazies come, you're on your own.
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....TopOpinion

What company thinking of moving to Texas or even Connecticut, for example, will be persuaded to stay in Manhattan after witnessing the mayor's impotence here? How many trade groups or associations are going to move their big meetings from the nation's capital after they've seen the lack of police protection at the convention center? Who's going to sink money into Oakland?which clocked in below Flint, Mich., on a recent Forbes ranking of cities by job growth?when they see a mayor unwilling to call in the cops even after businesses have been openly attacked?

Our progressive mayors may think themselves reasonable when they turn a blind eye to the public disorders that have characterized the Occupy movement. In fact, they are sending a signal that imperils the urban development they so profess to love. For the message they are sending to business is this: When the crazies come for you, you're on your own.

[teh rael o2]

ahh, bloomberg is an indie.

[cw]

Yeah, o2, he's a progressive independent.

[teh rael o2]

the OWS progressives beg to differ.

[cw]

Like how Marxists called liberal reformers "reactionaries." I really couldn't give a shit what the fundy leftists at OWS think about Mayor Bloomberg.

[Restoras]

Nanny Bloomie is a Big Government Zelig. There is no problme big or small that can't be solved with another government agency, more rules, and great dollops of tax money.

[Rhywun]

Really, this is pretty overblown nonsense. I work across the street from the damn thing in Manhattan and it's as if they're not even there. The occasional "public disorder" is what we pay for living in a free society or has the WSJ forgotten that.

[P Brooks]

Targeted tax credits don't help the economy

I just know my "surprised face"is around here somewhere.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to take a moment to address the public safety crisis of guns flowing across our border into Mexico - and the local law enforcement operation known as "Fast and Furious" that has brought renewed public attention to this shared national security threat.

When did the ATF become a "local" law enforcement agency?

[WTF]

When did the ATF become a "local" law enforcement agency?

Never mind the fact that ATF through 'Fast and Furious' was actually facilitating guns flowing across the border.

[anomdebus]

Or that "contributing" is a total weasel word in the instance. If a smuggled gun* caused so much as one extra death, it contributed to the 40k, though it was an extremely small part of it.

* for the sake of argument a non-F&F gun

[Tip O'Neil]

All Federal law enforcement is local

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ten months into his tenure as chief of staff, Mr. Daley's core responsibilities are shifting, following White House missteps in the debt-ceiling fight and in its relations with Republicans and Democrats in Congress.

Obama is looking to replace him with someone who is actually named Chicago.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Or maybe an actual machine.

[Lord Humungus]

completely OT: I have joined the ranks of iPhone users - anyone have some Apps (preferably free) that they can recommend?

[Quetzalcoatl]

I hear there is a highly competitive fart-noise sector.

[teh rael o2]

+ blazing saddles !

[AlmightyJB]

I have an Android but I'm sure you can get the same type stuff. If you're into music there's I Heart Radio, Slacker, and Song ID which is pretty cool, it listens to and identifies the song you are listening to. Of course there is always the Reason App.

[AlmightyJB]

Also if you shoot, Strelok seems to be a pretty decent free BDC App, you can get most of the info to input from chuckhawks.com. You just have to look around a little bit.

[Restoras]

I prefer Pandora over Slacker - Slacker drops constantly. Evernote is good for storing notes on the cloud. And (insert favorite sports teams here) have apps that keep you up to date on news, standings, highlights, etc.

[Lord Humungus]

that's good to know.

[Suki]

The claw hammer app is the best kept iPhone secret out there.

[Live Free or Diet]

HAHAHA! My daughter has a friend whose phone always looks like she's been using the Claw Hammer App. Swipe! Thanks, I'm gonna be using that!

[T]

Free: Shazam, Pandora, Mapquest, Google Books, Kindle, Sportscenter, IMDB.

Paid: eWallet, TowerMadness, CivRevolution

Visit your usual websites on the iPhone. They'll tell you if they have an iPhone app.

[Pro Libertate]

There are several apps that allow you to see constellations, stars, etc. wherever you point your phone. I'm not sure which one is best for the iPhone, but I think that's pretty cool.

[SugarFree]

Evernote, syncs notes across multiple devices.

Stanza, an eReader that supports most ebook formats, including Kindle, .pdf and epub. And it is a search interface for Guttenberg and you can download books straight to your phone from them.

[Lord Humungus]

thanks everyone - will check 'em out.

When I first got the iPhone, I really wasn't that impressed. But the more I started using it, the more useful it became. I'm not exactly linked at the hip, but it's a nice gadget to keep my self amused during those rare bouts of boredom.

[gaijin]

I am curious...how well does Sari respond to profanity?

[T]

She chides you for your language.

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

I think the team spent all their weekends writing easter eggs.

[Pro Libertate]

We have both Droids and iPhones in the house. I prefer the Droids, but the iPhone is nice, too.

[Brett L]

Netflix, yelp, wunderradio, dropbox. That and (sadly) facebook and the mint.com app are about all I use. Pandora sometimes. And the instapaper app if you use instapaper on the web.

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

Starwalk is pretty impressive if you're interested in astronomy. Trapster is a useful social network app for reporting speed traps.

[rac3rx]

Not sure your interests, but you might look up Red Laser, eWallet, Pandora, G Park, Shazam, Convert Units, and flashlight...all are handy. If you have a Logitech Squeezebox, the iPhone app is actually better than their remote. ESPN Score Center is pretty good too. You can also get a copy of the Constitution & the Federalist Papers if you're so inclined.

[Clich? Bandit]

I hate to say it but the Bloomberg app is sweet. So is App Box Pro (5 bucks) and AirShare (also 5 bucks)

[Fist of Etiquette]

So the Occupy Wall Street protests were actually lustrous in the eyes of the American people at one point?

[Joe M]

Sure, before they knew anything about them.

[Suki]

The MSM is amazed (and shocked) that the public does not agree with them. The answer, of course, is that the public did agree with them but something happened to change their minds.

[Restoras]

No, that's not it, Suki, the problem id the proles are too stupid to know that they should agree with them.

[teh IRS]

now which "them" is "they" ?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Damn. I wish I'd gotten in on the ground floor, take a short position.

[Pro Libertate]

Really? I understand that the media did, as they wanted to make political hay out of it, but I'm pretty sure it was in the first day or so of coverage that I and most people I know (most not libertarian, incidentally) figured out that the movement was one of village idiots.

[Cabeza de Vaca]

"Joe Frazier is dead."

I had the pleasure of meeting Joe Frazier once in the late eighties. A very nice, polite and friendly man. If everyone had manners like Joe Frazier the world would be a much nicer place to live in.

[John]

And he was the victim of one of the most disgusting racial smear campaigns ever. Ali called him a monkey and worse. And the sports writers cheered him on.

[robc]

Slightly before my time, but wasnt that because Ali and the writers were anti-war?

[John]

Partially. And Ali was wildly charasimatic and a big cause celbre on the left. So they let him get away with saying horrible things.

[Suki]

So there was a free pass for Muslims with the MSM even way back then?

[Lord Humungus]

from Wikipedia (with no Citations):

The fight itself became something of a symbol of the country. Leading up to the fight, Ali (who had denounced the Vietnam War) had refused induction into the U.S. Army in 1967, leading to his being stripped of his title and barred from fighting for three years. Ali became a symbol of the anti-establishment movement,[citation needed]while Frazier became a symbol of the conservative, pro-war movement. (In his autobiography, Frazier said that he didn't fight in the war because he was a father but that he would have fought if drafted because his country had been so good to him.)[citation needed]

[robc]

(In his autobiography, Frazier said that he didn't fight in the war because he was a father but that he would have fought if drafted because his country had been so good to him.)[citation needed]

wikipedites are stupid. The citation is in the fucking quote.

[Ted S.]

I'd argue there should be a page/publisher cite to the autobiography.

[Elder Scrolls Enthusiast AuH20]

Also, wasn't that after Frazier let Ali live with him while Ali went through the draft legal shit he was going through?

Apparently, in interviews, Frazier was almost gleeful about Ali's parkinsons, but I would be to if as the 12th kid of a share cropper I had been painted as the "White Man's Champion" by a dude who had an Irish grandfather.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Apparently, in interviews, Frazier was almost gleeful about Ali's parkinsons

Honestly, I can't blame him for that. He supported Ali through his exile, petitioned Nixon to reinstate him, and when their fight came along, Ali thanked him by making Frazier a laughingstock with the idiot reporters that enabled Ali's bojangling.

Being called a "monkey" and a "gorilla" during those years, by someone who never missed an opportunity to claim how oppressed he was because of his race, would leave a pretty big chip on my shoulder about the guy too.

[Brett L]

Frazier did Ali the favor of fighting him when Ali couldn't get a fight because of his draft status. Joe left Ali to do the marketing. They both understood that letting Ali run his mouth made both of them more money.

[MNG]

They cheered on everything Ali did, people found Ali to be refreshingly animated and amusing.

[teh rael o2]

RIP smokin joe !

and if any holy joe gives u crap, give 'em a knuckle sandwich w that famous left hook !

thriller in the heavens

[WTF]

I saw the Thriller in Manilla on closed circuit in a theater when I was in High School - still the greatest fight I ever saw live.

[Pro Libertate]

That's too bad about Smokin' Joe. Seemed like a decent guy, and he was one heck of a boxer. I feel like I should go rewatch the Thrilla in Manila.

[Drake]

Just don't watch his Foreman fights - yikes. I was rooting for Joe at the beginning. By the end I was yelling at him to stay down.

[Howard Cosell]

FRAZIER GOES DOWN!

[John]

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....89062.html

Interesting run down of the violence in the various Obamavilles.

[Rich]

formed roadblocks, surrounding the convention center and only allowing non-luxury cars to pass

I gots to know ...

Did they allow hybrids to pass?

[teh rael o2]

i cycled past

[Lord Humungus]

so if I'm driving a 15 year old Cadillac, I'm out of luck?

[Restoras]

Not if its pink. Or if you have a couple of hapless protestors strapped upright in the front.

[Lord Humungus]

I would pay to see that.

[flye]

While blasting "Gimme The Prize (Kurgan's Theme)" from the Highlander soundtrack.

[JW]

If they blocked my car, I would react as if I were on foot and someone intentionally blocked my way. I'm going to tell you exactly what I'm going to do and then I am going to proceed.

If you're still blocking me then, I will use whatever force I need to use to be on my way, up to, and including, running your stupid fucking ass over.

[MNG]

I'm guessing you are full of shit. You'd sit there and fume.

[JW]

No, this isn't tuff gai brvado.

You are using force to deprive me of a right. I will use force to protect or retrieve it. If you fail to heed my warnings that I am about to do so, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

I will use a minimum of force, proceeding very slowly to give you time to get the fuck out of the way, I don't want to needlessly harm someone who thinks I'm bluffing, but if I feel that you are a danger to me or my property or refuse to heed repeated warning signs, I will fucking send you to the ground.

[MNG]

And I'm saying bullshit. Even were you right I submit you would not run over that person.

[JW]

Say bullshit all you want. At a certain point, and I don't know exactly where that point is, you are either going to allow me my lawful rights, or you are going to pay a price for not doing so. What that price is is up to you.

You are using force to deprive me of a right. I am responding in kind to protect it, with a considerable mass advantage. It's pretty fucking simple.

[MNG]

Look, I think you would be in the right, but that's not what I am saying. There is such a thing as being right but where amazing complications are connected to being right. I doubt you would run over someone who did not get out of your way, if only because it would not be worth the investigations, possible trials, etc., that would follow.

[JW]

There probabaly is a limit to this. If some pretty young thing stuck her head under my tire, daring me to run over it, she'd probably win that fight.

But, if you're talking about an increasingly escalating series of incidents, anyone on the hood of my car will lose, as I likely would as well, as you note above.

[teh rael o2]

"I think you would be in the right..."
_

nope, you'd be criminally & civilly liable after hitting pedestrians.

[MNG]

Thankfully I don't think our legal system recognizes some abstract right-of-way right that would allow you to take a person's life, just as in most places you can't kill a person over mere property.

But even if you thought you might could claim something like what you and fluffy are talking about, I doubt you'd do it because at the time you can't be sure you won't get some kind of Bonfire of the Vanities treatment. Would it be worth that chance and headache to assert that right?

[JW]

Thankfully I don't think our legal system recognizes some abstract right-of-way right that would allow you to take a person's life, just as in most places you can't kill a person over mere property.

I can kill you over mere property if you happen to be inside that property and I believe you to be a threat to me and/or my famliy. Dead men tell no tales.

Let me set this up for you: I'm walking down the sidewalk, minding my own business. You block my path and refuse to let me proceed. I do the usual things, being shocked at the behavior, yelling, calling your bluff, trying to push past, but you persist.

I continue to try and move past you, but you escalate your resistance, becoming overtly violent and call in buddies to help stop me. I'm armed. I rightly fear for my life. I defend myself.

That sounds pretty conventional to me and we do have a system that recognizes deadly self-defense. As Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy notes, it's my word against theirs and confidence in our judicial system isn't high. Would I win? Maybe, maybe not. But as the DC video shows, there aren't any repercussions from those actions, so far.

[guy in the back row]

Not accoring to the WSJ article. The cops issued tickets to the people who were blocking traffic, and one person whow was struck by a car, not to the people driving cars.

Which is exactly as it should be.

[Gimlet]

"Say bullshit all you want."

He does. All day. Every day. It grows tiresome.

[Supreme Generalissimo Fluffy]

To me it would be a matter of whether or not I could plausibly claim later that I was afraid.

I agree that you have an enforceable right to move freely, but I would not trust to the court system to support you in that right if you couldn't play the "Officer I was afeared for me life!" card.

[Montani Semper Liberi]

"traders at the Chicago Board of Trade dumped several sheets of paper on top of the heads of protesters below," Mediaite reports. "Demonstrators were angered to find out they were showered with employment applications for McDonald's."

These are probably the same guys who posted the "We are the 1%" sign in the windows a couple weeks ago. I'd like to meet them. Sounds like they have a great sense of humor.

[Clich? Bandit]

THAT IS AWESOME!

[Joe M]

On Fast and Furious, Attorney General Eric Holder pivots from mea culpa to gun control.

The guy has balls of steal to push his talking points after everything that's happened.

[John]

Not balls just a complete lack of decency or any sense of shame.

[Chloe]

I don't know Holder, do you think any of those guns that you traffic across US borders had anything to do with those death.

[AlmightyJB]

More Gun Control was the plan all along. They were selling the guns in hopes to increase the violence on the border so they could push for tigher gun restrictions. What's a few dead border agents when you're a commie piece of shit.

[WTF]

But JB, Mingey tells us that's just crazy talk, fast and furious was just a sting operation gone awry!

[Joe M]

Yeah that's what I mean. This whole thing was engineered to make the case for more gun control, and even after being completely busted, he's trying to pretend like gun control is the answer, even though he oversaw this shit.

[teh rael o2]

still pushing the utterly discredited RW gun meme?

pure wingnutz radio entertainment.

not even good comedy.

but a really good remington sales pitch !

there's a sucker born every minute...& somebody to sell something to the wingnut.

[John]

This post is why people are kidding if they think Dems will do anything but mindlessly vote for Obama. Anything that reflects poorly on their side is to be excused and denied at all cost.

Yes, these people really are this stupid. Double asshole is if anything better than many of them. He is far from the worst.

[teh rael o2]

so when did obama's gun confiscation occurr?

[Jordan]

Strawman. Nobody's talking about confiscation. We're talking about increased gun control, which is exactly what he promised on his own website, dipshit.

[teh rael o2]

really? cause the RW meme describes gun confiscation along w other civil rights abuses...which never happened

[Chupacabra]

I think that's a spoof, John. It's not writing like a 5 year old.

[teh rael o2]

blackberry einstein

[Jordan]

A Blackberry doesn't force you to write like a 15 year old girl texting her BFF Jill.

[teh rael o2]

pendantic dodge of the RW gun confiscation meme

[Jordan]

I couldn't care less about whatever boogeyman is scaring you. Produce one quote from someone on this site talking about gun confiscation.

[teh rael o2]

i wrote RW meme.

[Jordan]

And this isn't a rightwing site. Go to FreeRepublic moron.

[MNG]

It doesn't excuse Obama and his administration to not buy every conspiracy theory to the fullest extent thrown out there about it. Only in the most ideological and partisan minds is that "defending" it.

[Fatty Bolger]

So, what's your explanation? Why did they implement a policy to let these guns walk right into the hands of cartel members?

[MNG]

We've had this discussion. Even John admitted there is no "smoking gun" or direct evidence of this being conspired to simply gin up support for gun control. It's only conjecture with at best explanatory value. And an argument based only on explanatory value loses much steam when other sensible explanations are available. It's common for law enforcement to allow illegal sales to occur for a variety of legit LE goals. Happens all the time and even John had to admit it.

I mean, it's hardly distinguishable from Wide Receiver. Was that all part of the conspiracy too?

Again, this doesn't excuse anyone or anything. This is criminal negligence. These agencies allowed weapons to walk that then were used to kill people, and US citizens. They are complicit in those murders.

[Elder Scrolls Enthusiast AuH20]

I think the problem is... Wide Receiver didn't work (and that program told the Mexican government what was going on). So the only thing that could make them think it would work this time would be the belief that Wider Receiver failed due to corruption in the Mexican government.

So, this guy pisses off a key, neighboring, friendly government, has a program which will end up killing untold Mexicans, and gets US citizens killed. And then he has the stones to say that the problem is illegal guns (like the ones the ATF told sellers to authorize?)

I don't really give a shit about conspiracy theories. If Eric Holder knew about the program, he should be put on trial for gross negligence homocide. Fuck him. Fuck him right in the ear.

[T]

Again, this doesn't excuse anyone or anything. This is criminal negligence. These agencies allowed weapons to walk that then were used to kill people, and US citizens. They are complicit in those murders.

While we may disagree on why F&F happened, you and I agree on this much. Why Holder still has a job at this point is completely baffling. At the very least, he should have fallen on his sword because this was his department and his people.

[MNG]

I'm not sure Holder should go unless he was in charge of this, but someone should not only go but be perhaps sued or prosecuted.

Sadly these days such egregious policy decisions rarely make a department head go. Look at how people actually thought Reno taking responsibility for Waco reflected well on her. WTF?

[Fatty Bolger]

I mean, it's hardly distinguishable from Wide Receiver.

It's very different. The guns were supposed to be tracked and interdicted in the Wide Receiver operation. The fact that they weren't can be explained by incompetence, or maybe even bad luck. An explicit policy to let guns go to Mexico with no way to track them until used in a crime cannot be so easily explained away.

[MNG]

"The guns were supposed to be tracked and interdicted in the Wide Receiver operation."

I've never seen any evidence that wa otherwise with FF. The claim of the ATF has always been that it was supposed to track them too. In both cases literally hundreds of guns were not traced.

I think a big problem is that in our ignorance of what was going on there might be a great deal of equivocating about what "tracing" meant. Many here think it must have meant keeping a constant awareness of where every gun was at all times. But one can easily imagine a legit LE program that doesn't do that. For example in indictments handed down from FF people with guns on them were caught at the border, but the indictment also explicitly alleges that they aim to prove that other trips over the border by the same people had been made and an attempt would be made to prove this. This could have simply involved surviellance. Is that "tracking?" Depends.

[Fatty Bolger]

How do you interdict the guns if you don't know where they are?

They were "traced" in the sense that they logged the serial numbers, and set up a quite excellent system to track them once they were recovered by Mexican authorities. (Without letting them know the US allowed the guns into the country in the first place, of course.) That was all the "tracking" that was involved, though.

[Chupacabra]

Isn't it obvious? They wanted to bring attention to the problem of government gun-walking schemes.

If the ATF has so many guns that they need to sell them to the Mexican drug cartels, then we obviously need tighter gun control laws.

Or something.

[Restoras]

100% Dead On. Agenda trumps all.

[The Other Kevin]

He's just giving fans of Team Blue something to work with.

[Lord Humungus]

^^this^^

[Suki]

Well played JM.

[Rich]

The "balls of steal" part is amusing.

[Brandon]

It's easy to have balls of steel when you know for a fact that you will not be held responsible for your actions.

[P Brooks]

Wopw.

?I'd like to take a moment to address the public safety crisis of guns flowing across our border into Mexico - and the local law enforcement operation known as "Fast and Furious" that has brought renewed public attention to this shared national security threat.

LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OPERATION?

[AlmightyJB]

What? You didn't get the MSM talking points memo this morning?

[John]

The New York Times after the Giffords shooting

It is facile and mistaken to attribute this particular madman's act directly to Republicans or Tea Party members. But it is legitimate to hold Republicans and particularly their most virulent supporters in the media responsible for the gale of anger that has produced the vast majority of these threats, setting the nation on edge. Many on the right have exploited the arguments of division, reaping political power by demonizing immigrants, or welfare recipients, or bureaucrats. They seem to have persuaded many Americans that the government is not just misguided, but the enemy of the people.

And after the night of violence at the Obamaville in Oakland

Headlines lately have focused on two nights of sporadic violence in Oakland, Calif., marked by firebombs and police tear gas. But members of the main body of 7,000 peaceful protesters quickly apologized and denounced what even the Oakland police characterized as a minority of self-styled anarchists exploiting from the fringe.

From the WSJ link above. God what a rag.

[teh rael o2]

so which is it?

the wsj or the times?

[John]

It is the WSJ quoting the times you half wit.

[RoboCain]

DFTT

[RoboCain]

It's beyond parody.

[teh rael o2]

"They seem to have persuaded many Americans that the government is not just misguided, but the enemy of the people."
_

some parody

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Don't you love the passive-voiced double-speak in that first paragraph? No matter the circumstance, count on the NYT to corner the market on weasel words.

[MNG]

One paragraph seems to be about media effects, the other is not, so I'm not sure what analogy you think you're making here.

[John]

You dont' see a problem here. Let me put on my surprised face.

[MNG]

Do you deny what I said? The essence of the first paragraph is "the media and political leaders who whip people into anger are messing with fire." The second paragraph is "while some OSWers may be trouble most are not."

We're not even talking apples and oranges, more like mangos and plaintains.

[John]

And of course you could just as easily point to the Democrats extreme rethoric about the rich and bankers as a cause of the violence at OWS. But they didn't do that. That is the point.

And no I am not surprised you didn't see it becuase you will never admit a single flaw in anyone on your side.

[MNG]

"you could just as easily point to the Democrats extreme rethoric about the rich and bankers as a cause of the violence at OWS"

You could, and then at least you'd have a proper analogy going on, unlike what you have up there.

[John]

They jumped to make the false analogy in one case and didn't in the other. That is why they are hypocrites MNG.

[SugarFree]

Harvard Walk-Out; or The Moron's Revolt

Students who participated in the walkout wrote in the open letter that they had hoped to be presented with a balanced view of economics in a required introductory course. "Instead, we found a course that espouses a specific?and limited?view of economics that we believe perpetuates problematic and inefficient systems of economic inequality in our society today. There is no justification for presenting Adam Smith's economic theories as more fundamental or basic than, for example, Keynesian theory."

[AlmightyJB]

As someone who works in the Finance field I am glad to see I have no future job competition to worry about, especially given the tight job market. Keep being stupid people.

[Restoras]

I wonder, how long has one (and probably all of its brethren) of our most storied institutions been an indoctrination factory? Very sad.

[Zeb]

How is students' walking out of an economics class evidence that Harvard is an indoctrination factory? Seems to me (in this case, at least), Harvard is trying to educate students who have already been indoctrinated.

Not that I disagree with the general idea that most elite universities have become centers of progressive indoctrination, but this example does not support that idea.

[Pro Libertate]

Lovely. Why don't they walk out of reality altogether? We need an MMO that involves living in a utopian socialist paradise.

[Drake]

I had a former Harvard professor who taught in the case-study method for an MBA class. Class-participation was 75% of the grade.

Walking out of his class would not only damage your grade, it would show you to be an intellectual coward afraid to debate him in front of the class.

[cynical]

We need to work out an exchange program with Cuba -- they find troublemaking capitalist types and, rather than killing them, send them here; in exchange we send them clowns like this,

[Drake]

YES!

[John]

The best and the brightest. I am convinced you have to be brain washed and stupid to get in in the first place. Only the brain washed could suck up enough in high school to get the grades needed.

[T]

Oh, Professor, eh, very nice. And how d'you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society!

[Pro Libertate]

Drop the class or get an F. Thanks for coming by!

[Prof Brett L]

This is the easiest class grading-wise I've ever had! Now if only my grad assistants would stop chewing through their fetters.

[Joe M]

There is no justification for presenting Adam Smith's economic theories as more fundamental or basic than, for example, Keynesian theory.

My mind! My beautiful rational mind!

[Pro Libertate]

You know, when did Keynes become a stand-in for Marx? Because Keynes was far more of a capitalist than these jokers.

[Joe M]

Hm, if Keynes is the far managed economy end of the spectrum, maybe that means we're winning after all. Here's hoping we eventually replace Keynes with the Chicago school.

[teh rael o2]

even greenspan admitted, in congressional testimony. that the chicago economic model he used was seriously flawed when he testified that the model "assumed" corporate execs would protect the best interests of shareholders & investors.

[Zeb]

Why the fuck should we believe Greenspan?

[teh rael o2]

who's "we" ?

[Zeb]

You and the people who read your comment.

[teh rael o2]

looks like CUNA & AIG agree w greenspan since they're suning BoA & JP morgan for malfeasence & misrepresentation.

[robc]

To paraphrase Keynes, even Keynes wasnt a Keynesian.

[Pro Libertate]

Not really, no.

[John]

What Rob said. Keynesianism is just a brand name for big government statism now. It has no relationship to what the man actually said.

[o2]

lulz like u woudl know? r u an WINGNUTZ econ expertz?

[John]

I can read English instead of molespeak and have an economics degree.

[teh rael o2]

^spoof john. thx for playing

[Proprietist]

Have you ever thought that maybe if you wrote in real English, you wouldn't be as much of a target for spoofs? That maybe we'd actually consider not writing you off at face value if you didn't write like a 12 year old girl?

[teh rael o2]

wouldnt make a diff

[Proprietist]

Actually, it would. None of us here take you seriously at all, thanks to your molespeak. Can you not write properly?

[RoboCain]

Because Harvard is so right-wing?

[Spoonman.]

Wait, so they're saying they know economics better than their professor?

[Tonio]

^This.

[Ice Nine]

No, they're just putting their fingers in their ears and going, "Lalalala."

[Field Marshall Gill]

There is no justification for presenting Adam Smith's economic theories as more fundamental or basic than, for example, Keynesian theory.

How about simple self awareness? I realize it is too much to ask from these smug douche-bags but how about simply looking inside yourself?

Does me working to enrich myself produce more than my working to transfer the productivity of others? Self evident.

[cw]

Shorter Harvard students:

"We want our biases confirmed!"

[MNG]

If this had happened the other way, i.e., students walking out on a Keynesian oriented prof because he was slighting Adam Smith, then you guys would be cheering it.

What more evidence would one need of the hackery?

[cw]

In introductory courses, one usually proceeds to learn the foundations of a social science. Adam Smith falls into classical, or foundation, economics. Keynes, obviously, comes later, so would probably be more important in advanced classes.

It's these students are the hacks.

[MNG]

Good lord that is weak sauce. You don't think Keynes would be dealt with in a survey course?

"In introductory courses, one usually proceeds to learn the foundations of a social science."

Where the f*ck do you get this?

[cw]

Well, that's how my intro courses proceeded. We didn't cover virtually any economist from the 20th century.

[MNG]

Many times intro courses are historically taught, but often they are not, they do a contemporary survey of the field and separate courses cover classical thoughts.

[Gimlet]

^^This fucker would debate a ham sandwich^^

[cw]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I should have written "In introductory economics courses, one proceeds to learn the foundations of economics, and one builds from there."

[JW]

Your own brand of hackery is fully represented.

we believe perpetuates problematic and inefficient systems of economic inequality in our society today.

That isn't about economics. That's pure ideology.

[MNG]

And Adam Smith's economics is not stuffed full of ideology?

[John]

HAve you ever read Smith? It is too old to be stuffed full of today's ideology. But, it is as much as anything just a description of things.

And Keynes isn't stuffed full of ideology. He was dreadfully wrong. But he did his best to describe what was going on.

[MNG]

Entire books have been written on the implicit and explicit ideological assumptions of Smith John. WTF?

But my point is this: had students walked out of what they felt was a leftist slanted class you and many here would be cheering their chutzpah, but when the situation is reversed so is the reaction.

[John]

It is too old to be stuffed full of today's ideology

Today, such a difficult word for you MNG. Today's ideology not the ideology of the 18th century.

And yes if a bunch of dipshits walked out of a survey class because they were teaching Keynes, they would be dipshits.

Apparently that sentence was beyond your feeble comprehension as well.

[DesigNate]

I for one would be calling them a bunch of fucking idiots, if for no other reason than they paid thousands of dollars to take that class and then decide to walk out because the professor isn't confirming their biases. No matter what side they are on.

[JW]

It's truly unbelievable what fucking intellectual cowards these little turds are. I had knock-down drag outs, in class, with many of my professors.

Hell, sometimes it would continue into their office, sometimes over multiple semesters if new information came out.

I weep for our nation's future.

[R]

It's truly unbelievable what fucking intellectual cowards these little turds are. I had knock-down drag outs, in class, with many of my professors.

Hell, sometimes it would continue into their office, sometimes over multiple semesters if new information came out.

I weep for our nation's future.

It's an inherent result of today's political environment, where disagreeing with the TEAM BLUE rhetoric automatically puts you beyond the pale, and thus are someone who should be not just be shunned, but actively spurned. That makes it damn near impossible to have a good old fashioned knock-down drag out political argument without actively burning your bridges.

While TEAM RED does have this problem sometimes, I'll note that it's not nearly as virulent there as with TEAM BLUE. Which is hilarious, because it's TEAM BLUE who calls themselves liberals, but it's TEAM RED who seems to actually have a slightly more open mind.

[Gimlet]

"Entire books have been written on the implicit and explicit ideological assumptions of Smith John. WTF?"

^^Bordom made flesh^^

[RoboCain]

No.

[John]

No they are bitching that they are even teaching Smith. And yes if a bunch of dipshits walked out of a survey class because they were teaching Keynes, they would be dipshits.

[SugarFree]

Mankiw:

The only reason that these students have not yet studied the father of modern macroeconomics in Ec 10, of course, is that the first semester of the class is devoted to microeconomics.

[Pro Libertate]

Egad.

[cw]

Doh, I should have remembered that. We used Mankiw's text, which puts micro into Econ 101 and macro into Econ 102. Which makes sense, given the historical order of each branch.

[Pro Libertate]

Me, too. Four semesters of economics down the tubes.

[T]

The semester in question is apparently Intro to Micro, where Adam Smith is appropriately a foundational subject. Keynes? Why the fuck would you cover Keynes in micro?

[KDN]

Why the fuck would you cover Keynes in micro?

Labor markets. Keynes wrote a lot about them.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

If this had happened the other way, i.e., students walking out on a Keynesian oriented prof because he was slighting Adam Smith, then you guys would be cheering it.

If you're going to propose an oppositional analogy, at least let it be a realistic one.

[Elder Scrolls Enthusiast AuH20]

Look on the bright side: State school with less debt is looking better than ever!

[AZ]

Even aside from the political aspects of this, Keynes was important for challenging the orthodoxy of his time; without understanding Smith, you wouldn't really get Keynes in a fully meaningful context.

They are sloppy learners who'd rather have validation than understanding.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Par for the course for the Trophy Generation, really.

[Jersey Patriot]

There is no justification for presenting Adam Smith's economic theories as more fundamental or basic than, for example, Keynesian theory.

Adam Smith primarily wrote on what is today called "microeconomics". Keynes primarily wrote on what is today called "macroeconomics". In most schools, Econ 101 would cover Micro, while Econ 102 would cover Macro. Smith would get a lot of play in 101; Keynes in 102.

Ironically, ECON 1936 is called "Keynes' General Theory". There's an entire class devoted just to his book, and its strengths and weaknesses.

[Rich]

I am determined to ensure that our shared concerns about Operation Fast and Furious lead to more than headline-grabbing Washington "gotcha" games and cynical political point scoring.

So, Holder is finally resigning?

[Tonio]

I suspect Holder will "resign" in Sept, 2012 or thereabouts.

[Devil's Advocate]

I like GoodReader, Kindle, and Merriam-Webster. I also use Amazon Mobile, and Find my iPhone (which will lock your phone if you lose it, among other things. I have a ton of Japanese language apps, don't know if you are interested in those.

[Devil's Advocate]

Err. That was supposed to go @ Lord Humungus; don't know why it didn't.

[rac3rx]

OK, this Find My iPhone app looks pretty cool. Thanks for the tip.

[Devil's Advocate]

Glad to help. Hopefully you will never have to use it!

[Ken Shultz]

"William M. Daley, the financial sector veteran hired to replace Rahm(bo) Emanuel as President Barack Obama's chief of staff, and to smooth things over with big money types, has been demoted."

Does he really think that will work?

How many staff members does he have to demote to undo all the damage he's done to the economy--the witch hunts he unleashed on Wall Street...

The regulation he championed, the going after Wall Street's pay as the source of the problem?!

Does Barack Obama really think the hedge fund managers on Wall Street, who gave to his campaign liberally last time, are going to suddenly forget his scapegoating of them and their compensation packages?

...just because he 'moted somebody on his staff?!

If that's the case, then Obama is even more out to lunch than I thought.

[db]

Lord Humungus | 11.8.11 @ 9:17AM | # completely OT: I have joined the ranks of iPhone users - anyone have some Apps (preferably free) that they can recommend?

If you're into practical shooting i think there is at least one good shot timer out there.

[T]

Have you used any of the paid ballistics apps? I have the free winchester one, but am dithering about one of the paid ones.

[Restoras]

Ballistics Apps? What is this of which you speak???

[RoboCain]

There are a number of smartphone/PDA apps to calculate long range shots.

[mad libertarian guy]

Ballistic FTE is awesome. BulletFlight L2 is also very good.

[Clich? Bandit]

I dont know about ballistics but the Brewmath app is awesome. And the coolset paid app i know of is StarWalk but that is for space geeks.

[P Brooks]

More from the straight shooters of the Washington Nexus Juggalo Assemblage:

But beyond identifying where errors occurred and ensuring that they never occur again, we must be careful not to lose sight of the critical problem that this flawed investigation has highlighted: we are losing the battle to stop the flow of illegal guns to Mexico. That means we have a responsibility to act. And, we can start by listening to the agents who serve on the front lines of this battle. Not only did they bring the inappropriate and misguided tactics of Operation Fast and Furious to light, they also sounded the alarm to Congress that they need our help.

ATF agents who testified before a House committee this summer explained that the agency's ability to stem the flow of guns from the United States into Mexico suffers from a lack of effective enforcement tools. One critical first step should be for Congressional leaders to work with us to provide ATF with the resources and statutory tools it needs to be effective. Another would be for Congress to fully fund our request for teams of agents to fight gun trafficking. Unfortunately, earlier this year the House of Representatives actually voted to keep law enforcement in the dark when individuals purchase multiple semi-automatic rifles and shotguns in Southwest border gun shops.

Providing law enforcement with the tools to detect and disrupt illegal gun trafficking is entirely consistent with the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens and it is critical to addressing the public safety crisis on the Southwest border.

By all means, we should provide this vast array of morons and fuckups with a bigger budget and enhanced powers. Because, this time, they'll get it right!

[RoboCain]

"We can't enforce existing law, so we need more laws we can't enforce."

[Gimlet]

How about a border fence with border agents checking border crossers for guns?

[The Hypocracy. It Burns.]

Obama threatens to go public with lawmakers' pork spending requests:

http://www.nationaljournal.com.....s-20111105

[John]

I wish he would. Fuck them.

[Lord Humungus]

political blackmail? Of course pork is one of the evils of the system, something that Obama hardly has clean hands with.

[Joe M]

Go public? Isn't that stuff already a matter of public record?

[cw]

I think he means making a list of names tied with government boondogles that only a few are actually aware of and posting it on every TV screen.

Just because its public record doesn't mean the public knows about it.

[Brett L]

"I hold in my hand, a list of names..."

[mad libertarian guy]

And, coincidentally I'm sure, they'll all be Team RED politifucks.

[John]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/l.....yJWAJu4AhO

A business owner near the Occupy Wall Street encampment claims she has been repeatedly harassed and threatened with bodily harm by protesters after she and her employees refused to give in to their outlandish demands.

"I've been told, 'Watch your back!' 10 times," Stacey Tzortzatos, owner of Panini & Co. Breads, located across from Zuccotti Park, told The Post yesterday.

She and her employees are terrified by the constant threats, which she said began after she demanded the protesters stop using her shop's restroom as a place to bathe every day.

The final straw came about two weeks ago, when the demonstrators broke a bathroom sink, flooding the shop, and clogged the toilet -- setting her back $3,000 in damages.

These people are just scum.

[teh rael o2]

another example of the homeless causing problems for the protestors

[John]

RTFA. IT is not homeless. It is just who these people are.

[John]

"I have the police in here 10 times a day, [and] I'm the bouncer. I've been called the spawn of the devil. "It's unbelievable what goes on in here every day, " Tzortzatos said.

And on Friday, she said, a crazed squatter burst into the shop and demanded that workers fill a 10-gallon container of water.

When they refused, "he banged it on the ground and started yelling" and threatened the staff, she said.

"He said he was entitled to have it for free."

Tzortzatos said the unsafe conditions begin at around 5 p.m. every day, when "they come from the park drunk, under the influence of something.

"They use one of our doorways as a bathroom, and we have to scrub it down every morning.

"I've had people come in here and yell, 'Boycott! Boycott!'

"They unplugged my ATM machine and plugged in their computers," Tzortzatos said.

Another businessman, who complained to The Post about the squatters' behavior last week, said yesterday that the situation has since deteriorated, adding, "You don't know the half of it."

But the protesters appear to be digging in, erecting three of what will eventually be more than two dozen, 16-by-16-foot military-style tents that will help them stave off hypothermia in the coming winter.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/l.....z1d7poIHa8

Odd the homeless people never showed up at the Tea Parties. Lefty are scum.

[RoboCain]

I didn't even think it was big enough to fit "two dozen, 16-by-16-foot military-style tents". And if they supposedly have $500,000.00 or at least money for these tents, why can't they at least rent portable toilets?

[Isaac Bartram]

I believe that even if they wanted to rent portable toilets, I don't think the occupiers would be able to.

I'm pretty sure the rental service would want to see some kind of permit for using the park space which IIANM they don't have.

My impression is that Bloomberg though the thing would whither away when the cold weather came.

[Rich]

a crazed squatter burst into the shop and demanded that workers fill a 10-gallon container of water. When they refused, "he banged it on the ground and started yelling" and threatened the staff, she said. "He said he was entitled to have it for free."

[Emphasis added.] So, let him "have it".

[cw]

And where are the police in all this?

[rac3rx]

Apparently when you call them for help, they hang up on you.

[teh rael o2]

yea, most of the homeless are drunks and act crazy. OWS should expell them

[cw]

How do you know they're homeless?

[SugarFree]

It has to be homeless, cw. Because the OWS are pure of heart and peaceful and not obsessed with entitlement and would never do anything like that.

They have to be homeless, because only that fits the narrative.

[Clich? Bandit]

NOPE Finally, after this comment I am now a firm believer that Ohio Urine, Oo, O2 etc. is a Sock puppet. Straight up. That comment was too poorly situated and trying too hard. Now, who's is it...I am going with Suki.

[Zeb]

Isn't Suki a sockpuppet?

[Clich? Bandit]

i need a chart.

[Ice Nine]

I think he must be talking about BUMS.

[teh rael o2]

well ive been to zucotti several times & am going back this coming weekend. i urged the organizers to form a security cmte & toss the drunk homeless before the po po use them as an excuse

[MNG]

John is starting to sound like those people supporting the Waco and Ruby ridge actions. Those people are dangerous, dangerous folks, "something" needs to be done...

[Isaac Bartram]

Yeah, because the Branch Davidians were always going to the stores in town and tearing shit up and demanding free stuff...oh wait, no they weren't, they were sitting in their "compound" and their only demand was to be left alone.

[MNG]

You forget your history. That is not what we were told about the people at Waco, we were told they were strange, funny looking weirdos who were breaking multiple laws.

[John]

But that was a lie MNG. this is really happening. If people were making up stories about this, you could call it a smear campaign. Pointing out actual violent behavior is not a smear campaign.

[MNG]

That those were lies was hardly evident at the time John. Later, as usual, things were explained as much more complex (even when all was said and done there was problematic behavior going on in Waco too). I'm betting the same might happen here.

[John]

What is going on in the middle of Manhattan is little harder to lie about than what is happening in a religous compound out on the Texas plains.

Once again, you are betting these are lies based on what evidence other than wishful thinking? I have a dozens of news reports from all over the country saying these things are getting violent. I have films of them attacking people outside the DC convention center.

What have you got? Oh they are on your team so it must be a lie. Again, there apparently is no lefty hill of stupid you won't die on.

[MNG]

"I have a dozens of news reports from all over the country saying these things are getting violent."

Let's have you answer a question: were there not dozens of media reports from all over the nation alleging all kinds of terrible things about Randy Weaver and David Koresh?

[John]

No. I never heard of Weaver until they shot him. And I never heard of the Davidians until they raided the compound. So there were not.

And again, there wasn't film and Koresh and Weaver were not doing their crimes in the middle of America's largest cities in full view of the public.

[JW]

Funny, I recall clearly during the standoff of media reports of how BATF had many chances to grab Koresh and declined to do so, instead laying siege to their compound.

Maybe you should have expanded you news sources and not taken everything at face value.

[MNG]

You can't even keep up with your own limited news sources. Just the other day I emphatically made the point you are making.

You're missing the point, it's not about the ATF's failure to move on Koresh in a reasonable manner, it's about the build-up to paint a group as deserving of drastic LE action that usually goes along with these LE beatings and murders.

[JW]

You're missing the point, it's not about the ATF's failure to move on Koresh in a reasonable manner, it's about the build-up to paint a group as deserving of drastic LE action that usually goes along with these LE beatings and murders.

Yeah, I remember that all too well. That was wh n I was a CNN junkie. But I knew it was bullshit then because I pulled from non-mainstream source.

It's going to be even harder to pull that bullshit routine with so much access to information today, especially the stuff that just routes around the media gatekeepers.

[WTF]

So, what is the store owner's motive for lying about the behavior of the OWSers?

[tarran]

Hey, they hadn't paid a $500.00 tax bill. That's why their dogs had to be shot by armed men with helicopter support.

[MNG]

If I have a bias it is one that is extremely biased against drastic LE action. Waco, the MOVE bombing and Ruby Ridge were some of the worst events our government has done in my lifetime.
Whenever the media starts painting some group as strange and dangerous while the LE agencies are looking for support to go in and take drastic action I get mighty suspicious.

You guys would too if you were not fixated on the leftism of this particular group.

[John]

Good for you MNG. No one here is calling for any drastic action. We are just pointing out how awful these people are. And you are trying to change the subject to cops and the Davidians.

Do you even care what a transparent hack you are being?

[MNG]

"No one here is calling for any drastic action. We are just pointing out how awful these people are."

Er, which is EXACTLY what I said the first step in taking or covering drastic action is.

Sheesh.

[JW]

Wait, you think that thinking people are awful and not wishing violent state action against them are mutually exclusive? Are you new here?

I mean, I hate Illinois Nazis as much as the next guy...

[John]

By that logic MNG, you could never point to any violent acts by any group because it might lead the police to do something. You are just pathetic. Admit it, these things are getting violent and the people at them are basically shitting on the innocent people who happen to live there.

Yeah, that fact doesn't fit your narrative. Too bad. Sometimes life is like that. Stop insulting everyone's intelligence. No one is buying this shit.

[Joe M]

MNG, you're in the wrong here. The crimes the Waco people were being accused of we a combination of hyped up nonsense (child molestation??) and victimless crimes like gun possession. It ended in a horrible tragedy which killed a lot of the people who were supposedly endangered by Koresh. The crimes being reported in NYC are actual crimes against other people and their property. The obvious solution would be to, you know, arrest the people when they commit crimes, just like we normally do in a civil society. It's a pretty clear distinction.

[teh rael o2]

+9mm

[Restoras]

I don't think so. The OWS crowd needs a lesson in private property rights, as well as manners.

[JW]

Huh. I reread John's post and couldn't find anything in them demanding violent action, nor any action for that matter.

Are you sure you just aren't arguing with the John in your head again?

[John]

What Isaac said above. Jesus MNG is there any leftist hill of stupid you wont' die on? You don't do yourself any favors excusing and defending this stuff.

[MNG]

This is exactly how LE beatdowns and murder sprees happen. First, you marginalize and generalize based on "reports" about how strange and law-breaking the groups targeted are. Then you move in. Then later you find much of the claims were exagerrated or false.

[John]

What reason is there to believe that anything in the post article is made up or exagerated? And further, violence has happened all over the country at these things. Is it your opinion that all those stories are false? And if so, what makes you think they are false other than these people are on your team?

[JW]

John, taking at face value multiple media reports of multiple events, not to mention on-the-scene video from the Occutards own ranks, just shows to you to be the partisan hack that you are.

[MNG]

Let me ask you this John, you don't think there were similar reports about the Dravidians at that time? And people were saying "What reason is there to beleive these charges are not true"

[John]

If the Davidians were molesting kids at the DC convention center and there was a film of it on youtube, yes I would beleived those reports. But since there was none of that evidence, this is not analogous to this.

What evidence do you have all of these reports are not true other than well reports about a cult in Texas almost 20 years ago turned out to be untrue. That is about as weak as it gets.

[MNG]

I'm betting that, like many of the charges that "everyone" thought was true regarding the Dravidians, many of those currently made will later be found to be false or exagerrating. And, as if also often the case in these matters, I think the ones that may be true are often unfairly generalized against people who will latter be the target of violent police measures aimed at those "people that need to be taught a lesson" to use the words of commenters here.

[John]

Unfairly generalized how? Which of these cases are untrue and why? And how many cases does there have to be before it is a trend? It is clear these things are getting out of hand. Anyone who had any brains would just go home.

[Joe M]

Minor point: they were Branch Davidians, not Dravidians, though even that is disputed.

[DesigNate]

I was in middle school down here in Texas when Waco happened. While there were many reports on the evil* things they were doing (child molestation, drugs, large gun and ammunition stores, etc.), there wasn't a single damn video of them actually doing those things. The BATF and the FBI had already decided that the Davidians were going to be taken down, they just needed to provide themselves some cover. The OWSers are not being targeted by either organization and aren't being vilified or demonized by the MSM (except when they report those pesky little things called facts). So no minge, it is not even remotely the same fucking thing.

*not that I think drugs or guns are evil.

[Gimlet]

"John is starting to sound like those people supporting the Waco and Ruby ridge actions."

Keeeee-rist what a pathetic soul.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

When they refused, "he banged it on the ground and started yelling" and threatened the staff, she said.

"He said he was entitled to have it for free."

These kinds of chimp-outs are going to keep happening until someone starts smacking these goons around.

Take the DC video where the protestors were using their kids as human shields. When the cameraman started asking them why they were doing that, some brush-cutted bull dyke came up on him like she was going to attack him. A quick backhand would have ended that gorilla display pretty quick.

[JW]

Yeah, but the clown-shoes screeching that followed, combined with the human microphone, would quickly overwhelm the senses of any sane person.

[Elder Scrolls Enthusiast AuH20]

Well, the protestors are welcoming the homeless in, because they, moreso than anyone, are victims of society.

Unless you DON'T think this movement should represent the poor?

[Mike M.]

What a totally worthless piece of shit Bloomberg turned out to be. It's only a matter of time before someone gets killed there, and then all freaking hell is going to break loose.

[Rich]

This. Get the t-shirt factories ramped up to memorialize the first martyr.

[Spoonman.]

I think this was the lady featured on a Daily Show segment where they appeard sad that the Occupy protestors weren't less insane.

[DesigNate]

It is the same lady. I wasn't sure if they were being serious or were satirizing the protesters insanity.

[Elder Scrolls Enthusiast AuH20]

So, if you're a business owner in the area, and your business is harmed by these protests, which the city refuses to evict... can you file a claim against anyone?

I'm asking a serious question. The protestors have 500k, the city has money... is anyone liable?

[DesigNate]

I'd hire an attorney and invite everyone to the shit sandwich.

[Ken Shultz]

"The Boston Herald suggests that "the Occupy Wall Street movement may be starting to lose its luster with the American public."

Which is a lagging indicator!

Assuming the OCW movement had any luster to begin with, this means that OCW lost that luster with a big chunk of the American public weeks ago at least.

I guess it's hard for some people to imagine that unwashed slackers shouting down the American dream and banging on drums could turn the American people off--but then I guess that's why when I'm watching football on TV, they don't use images of dirty hippies in commercials to sell pizza and pickup trucks.

[sarcasmic]

Rebecca Romijn (Mystique in the X-Men films) is still hot.
Like, good enough to eat hot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....twins.html

[Lord Humungus]

inb4 'butt too small comment'

[Anacreon]

Butt just right, IMO. I could live without the breast implants though.

[sarcasmic]

ditto

[Restoras]

If I may add...

Like, good enough to eat raw hot.

Just specatcular. I owe you several beers, Mr. Sarcasmic, for your constant hotness vigilence. Thank you.

[o2]

not young enuff or boyish enuff

[teh rael o2]

^poor spoof is poar

[sarcasmic]

Taylor Swift is proud of her pussy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....riend.html

[RoboCain]

*trolled*

[Restoras]

Glad to see she enjoys playing with it too...

[Johnny Carson]

Now only if she'd get rid of that damned cat.

[Ed McMahon]

HIYOOOO!

[KDN]

Taylor Swift is one of the ugliest pretty people alive. I do not get it. She's like an anorexic Renee Zellwegger.

[sarcasmic]

Gotta admit she's got a cute pussy.

[P Brooks]

Students who participated in the walkout wrote in the open letter that they had hoped to be presented with a balanced view of economics in a required introductory course.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Mankiw is hardly Milton Friedman.

As I understand it, Mankiw's intro class is extraordinarily difficult to get into. He obviously needs a better selection methodology.

[Surly Chef]

It's pretty clear that these students don't understand the concept of an intro class or the context of Smith or Keynes's work. I'd have to say all but the most insane neoKeynesian would agree with me in that the Wealth of Nations is a suitable intro econ text, even if they only view it so in a historical context, while the General Theory is in no way an introductory text even for a future Krugnuts.

[#]

this whole keynes thing has become rather annoying. Most of the people who talk about Smith or Keynes right now dont know wtf they are talking about.

Smith has just become shorthand for free market capitalism and Keynes has just become short hand for whatever the fuck democrats want to do to the economy.

These guys are not opposites.

Smith talked about the advantages of trade due to absolute advantage (later richardo expanded this to comparative). He identified economies of scale and that as markets grow in size opportunities for cost savings and innovation occur.

These are not things Keynes disputed. He was not a trade protectionist. He did not deny that economies of scale exist nor that innovation and potential to apply new capital existed as markets get bigger.

He was talking abouut soemthing completely differently that being the case where long term unemployment exists, something the classical economists at the time had no explaination for. And he changed his mind so many times most of which is labeled "keynsian" today has little to do with what he actually said and more to do with what his 1940s and 1950s successors, like samuelson and solow, who built it up as macro econ.

And its not even everythign that keynse said is BS. The keynsian notion of sticky wages for example is quite widely held.

I continue to be frustrated by a bunch of people who argue over stuff that they dont even know what they are talking about.

[Tobias]

I was seven years old when Frazier fought the first of the three great fights with Ali. At that time, I was bussed into the Central District in Seattle to T.T. Minor elementary, along with about 50 other white kids. There was heavy talk about the fight at school before it started for what seemed like weeks, with a number of the black kids claiming their father could or already did, whip Ali. There was nearly unanimous support for Frazier over Ali at school. I liked Ali because my father did (and I had some vague understanding because this was connected to Vietnam).

[John]

the black kids were rooting for Frazier? Wow. They way they tell it now Ali was the black man's fighter and Frazier was supported by all the Archie Bunkers of the world

[Tobias]

Memory can be a shaky thing, and I was pretty young, but I remember a distinct difference between how my father and his friends talked about Ali and how the kids at school did. My memory is that Frazier was by far the more popular at school and Ali wasn't liked very much. But even if my memory was selective, it's at least clear that Frazier was every bit as popular than Ali there and most likely more so than Ali.

[db]

T | 11.8.11 @ 9:36AM | # Have you used any of the paid ballistics apps? I have the free winchester one, but am dithering about one of the paid ones.

To clarify, i have an android but a friend has a n iphone shot timer program thats pretty good. If you want a good nonmobile ballistics program try quickload/quicktarget. Once you get past the weird interface it's very powerful, as it does interior as wellas exterior ballistics.

[P Brooks]

From the letter to Mankiw; read it, and be amazed.

As Harvard undergraduates, we enrolled in Economics 10 hoping to gain a broad and introductory foundation of economic theory that would assist us in our various intellectual pursuits and diverse disciplines, which range from Economics, to Government, to Environmental Sciences and Public Policy, and beyond.

You know; morons.

[John]

Yeah morons.

My favorite is this

There is no justification for presenting Adam Smith's economic theories as more fundamental or basic than, for example, Keynesian theory.

If Keynes were alive, he would tell them that Smith is more fundemental. What a bunch of babboons.

[o2]

bias much?

maybe teh studentz arent WINTNUTZ

[John]

Knowledge is biased you idiot. Without Smith and classical economics, there would be no Keynes. You can't understand Keynes unless you understand classical economics first. Smith is more fundemental for whatever that is worth. But since neither you nor these babboons understand Keynes, it makes sense you also don't understand Smith.

[cw]

I think that, since they immediately point to Keynes (as they understand him) as an alternative, they are the "WINTNUTZ" (sic).

[JJJ]

It gets better. According to a commenter, Al, the first semester of Econ 10 is microeconomics. The class wont even cover Keynes until the second semester macroeconomics class.

[db]

our various intellectual pursuits and diverse disciplines, which range from Economics, to Government, to Environmental Sciences and Public Policy, and beyond.

Truly, with such fine young minds, our society cannot help but grow ever stronger.

[Gimlet]

Ther were born masturbating.

[Lord Humungus]

The Stop Online Piracy Act: Big Content's full-on assault against the Safe Harbor
http://arstechnica.com/tech-po.....harbor.ars

The latest offensive in the content industry's never-ending war on copyright infringement is the Stop Online Piracy Act, which was introduced in the House two weeks ago. It incorporates key provisions of the Senate's Protect IP Act as well as another Senate bill that makes unauthorized streaming a felony. But it also includes new provisions that go beyond the language in either of those bills. If passed, it would be the most sweeping overhaul of copyright law in at least a decade.

Ars discussed the proposal with Ryan Radia of the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a libertarian think tank. He's been actively engaged in this year's copyright debates on Capitol Hill, and he argued that the sweeping language of SOPA was specifically designed to undermine the safe harbor provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

[NotSure]

How could this work ? The piratebay site is in Sweden, I doubt that the US government would seriously destroy relations with other nations simply because some people are downloading movies.

[John]

And it is bought and paid for by Hollywood.

http://reporting.sunlightfound.....forcement/

A Republican representative from the Hill Country of Texas just happens to be so concerned about piracy. The hundreds of thousands of dollars Hollywood gave to him has nothing to do with it.

[DesigNate]

He's probably a California transplant. I swear to science those people are a fucking plague upon this great state.

[Gray Ghost]

A Republican representative from the Hill Country of Texas just happens to be so concerned about piracy.

[After RTFA] Dear Lord, is there anything in Congress that Lamar Smith can't fuck up further? He's like the Bizarro Sheila Jackson Lee.

[Brett L]

US Winters getting colder over the last decade. Summers not much warmer. Weather not climate, right?

[Chupacabra]

THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED!

DEATH TO THE CLIMATE DENIERS!

[teh rael o2]

the many fat deniers will float away on the high tide

[Jersey Patriot]

The US is not the world. Global warming is measured by a worldwide average. Some places will warm significantly; some hardly at all. Predictions made decades ago said that the Arctic would warm faster than anywhere else on Earth, and that's exactly what we're seeing.

Saying there's no global warming because of the United States is like saying that the world economy is in great shape because China is growing at 8%.

[Brett L]

Sure. Right. Colder winters in Texas were on the list, too, right? Also, if you'll look at the chart from Roy Spencer posted last week, you'll see that the last couple years have dipped below the 30 year average globally during the winter. So I must be conspiring with the satellites to fabricate denialist rhetoric.

[Brett L]

Correlation between CO2 emissions and temperatures become more tenuous. Just to leave no doubt, the surface of the earth certainly warmed between 1979 and 1998. The mechanism is what has always been in doubt. More evidence here that human CO2 emission is most certainly NOT the only (and very likely not the primary) driver of temperature variation on the surface. Time to find a new reason to put the entire world economy in the hand of "top men".

[Brett L]

Close the link tag, idjit.

[DesigNate]

DEATH TO ALL WHO DENY WHAT IS GOOD AND RIGHT!!!

[P Brooks]

so they're saying they know economics better than their professor?

They're freshmen.

At HARVARD.

[Chloe]

It's like that episode of South Park, "Die Hippies, Die," where all the freshman keep saying they know whats really going on in the world because they had one semester of college.

[LOL]

Detroiters Launch Petition Against Nickelback Halftime Show, Thousands Sign

DETROIT ? Detroit has it tough, with falling home prices, high unemployment, struggling manufacturing, and crime so rampant in the downtown city bus drivers say they're "scared for their lives."

Now comes another blow: Nickelback.

The formulaic, faux rock n' roll band is scheduled to perform the halftime show for the Detroit Lions on Thanksgiving Day, one of the most anticipated home games of the season.

But fans aren't taking it lying down, with more than 43,000 people signing a petition at change.org that asks show producers to reconsider their choice.

"Detroit is home to so many great musicians and they chose Nickelback?!?!?!" the petition says. "Does anyone even like Nickelback? Is this some sort of ploy to get people to leave their seats during halftime to spend money on alcoholic beverages and concessions?

"This is completely unfair to those of us who purchased tickets to the game. At least the people watching at home can mute their TVs."

University of Michigan student Dennis Guttman started the petition. Why?

"It's because they suck," he told news website MLive. "I'm sure they're great people, but I can't stand their music. If people want to see them perform, go buy a ticket to their concert."

Petition signer Eric Ransom summed it up this way, "Haven't the good people of Detroit been through enough?"

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/20.....time-show/

[MNG]

Hilarious.

[Chloe]

I'm shocked, people have taste.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Detroit has generally known good rock when it hears it.

[Restoras]

Nickelback is an abomination.

[cynical]

Maybe there's hope for Detroit yet.

[A Protest of Peace]

SAN DIEGO (CBS) ? A pair of Southland street cart vendors who were forced to shut down their businesses after "Occupy" protesters vandalized their carts are hoping to get some help from local residents.

KNX 1070?s Tom Reopelle reports a fundraiser in the Gas Lamp district in San Diego on Monday night is aimed at helping two vendors get back on their feet.

The coffee and hot dog carts were located in Civic Center Plaza, the same location as the Occupy San Diego protesters.

That group first settled in to the plaza Oct. 7 and set up a tent city which has since twice been taken down by police.

Coffee cart owner Linda Jenson and hot dog cart operators Letty and Pete Soto said they initially provided free food and drink to demonstrators, but when they stopped, the protesters became violent.

And according to one city councilman, bodily fluids were used in the attacks.

"Both carts have had items stolen, have had their covers vandalized with markings and graffiti, as well as one of the carts had urine and blood splattered on it," said Councilman Carl DeMaio.

The damages will likely require at least a complete cleaning if not a replacement of the cart covers, DeMaio said.

In addition to the attacks, the vendors also said they recently received death threats

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com.....ood-urine/

[John]

You are just trying to make them look like branch dividians.

[teh rael o2]

or drunk homeless

[WTF]

Those street cart vendors are in cahoots with the police to help them justify a beatdown.

[Chloe]

Nah, its the FBI infiltrated neo-nazi and anarchist groups that are causing the problems. The poor vendors are just shit out of luck for being nice to them.

[Restoras]

Coffee cart owner Linda Jenson and hot dog cart operators Letty and Pete Soto said they initially provided free food and drink to demonstrators, but when they stopped, the protesters became violent.

Lessons abound.

[cynical]

They should put signs up saying "Don't feed the protestors."

[Kristen]

This is why you never, ever feed wild animals.

[T]

Feed them love, kindness, and 230 grain hollowpoints.

[Clich? Bandit]

230 grains, Jeebus...protestor puree after that.

[P Brooks]

so if I'm driving a 15 year old Cadillac, I'm out of luck?

That depends; does it have a massive pair of cow antlers on the hood?

[cw]

So, where is White Indian to tell us about the evils of the agricultural-city [STATE]?

[SugarFree]

Shh... dude, she's sleeping it off. She always crashes hard off of a big mania cycle like that.

[John]

I think they may have banned her. It is clear she is behind it. No rather no white Indian. And no closeted gay guy either. They all just disapeared.

[rather]

Don't be stupid John; naive is bad enough.

[cw]

Yeah, that 2000+ post was one big bender.

[cw]

Ahh, wrote too soon; White Indian's still here. Look at the latest Dalmia post.

[rather]

If 90% or more of the posts are not me, I can presume it parallels WI postings. Ergo the commoninality are the spoofs, now who would they be....

[db]

Someone needs to do a Pink Cadillac/Lord Humungus's Buggy video mashup.

[T]

What about that fine ride the Duke of New York had with the chandeliers on the hood?

[Scooby]

Two-thirds (in Britain) support social networking blackout in future riots -from the Grauniad

Poll shows majority of adults believe pulling plug on services such as Twitter and Facebook would stem spread of unrest

So, did most of the Britons that care at all about overreaching government leave in the 18th century?

[NotSure]

They gave up liberty for security for a long while now, with the end result with having neither. So now the want to give up even more freedom hoping that this time they will have security.

[Joe M]

Wow, and here I was feeling bad for Britsh citizens for the serious police state they've got going over there. Apparently, they're getting the government they deserve, good and hard.

[Hugh Akston]

Today is the five year anniversary of the H&R commentariats greatest triumph and its greatest shame. To honor the values that once made this blog great and to overthrow the oppression of the 1% of threadshitters, I call upon my fellow commenters to #OccupySaltyHamTears.

[T]

Aww, man, Leave VM alone. He's harmless in there.

[Chris]

AlmightyJB|11.8.11 @ 9:18AM|#

Hey I just woke up in a bathtub full of ice and my kidneys are gone. What do I do? I would have called 911 but I figured blogging on Reason would be a better idea.

Sorry. Helper bot is getting a new paint job and mags installed. You're gonna have to wait.

[dave b.]

Obama administration redefines inflation.

"Many economists argue that the chained CPI is more accurate because it assumes that as prices increase, consumers switch to lower cost alternatives, reducing the amount of inflation they experience."

You can't make this shit up.

[T]

What the fuck is the cheaper alternative to gasoline?

[Proprietist]

I'm assuming "lower cost options" means "riding public transportation." Which we know isn't really lower cost.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Well, one example would be somebody who began riding a bicycle or moped to work as opposed to driving a car--not necessarily using a cheaper alternative, but that person is technically using less of a resource. Or, the "lower cost alternative" could simply mean finding ways to drive around less, thus decreasing the need for fill-ups.

[The Book of Revelation (KJV)]

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

I'm pretty sure they've been doing this for a while now. The CPI has been a pretty bullshitty number for a while now.

[Trespassers W]

Half-serious question: is inflation ever re-defined in such a way that it results in higher estimates?

[CrackertyAssCracker]

Not to my knowledge. Every adjustment that has been made that I know of is a way to tweak it down.

[http://www.ggtime90.com/]

Every adjustment that has been made that I know of is a way to tweak it down.
http://www.ggtime90.com/

[http://www.loundstore.com/]

If I had a single flower for every time I think about you, I could walk forever in my garden

[-zonghui]

I need him like I need the air to breathe.