Reason Writers on Bloggingheads: Matt Welch Talks to Robert H. Frank About The Darwin Economy and Libertarianism

On Thursday, Oct. 6, Reason Editor in Chief talked to economist Robert H. Frank about his new book The Darwin Economy: Liberty, Competition, and the Common Good, which in some respects is an open letter to libertarians asking them to recognize the need for collective action to solve various problems and change various behaviors. Go to the Bloggingheads site for bite-sized breakdowns of their conversation, or just watch the whole hour below:

Comments

[Alfred Russell Wallace]

What, no The Wallace Economy? Fine, well, I see how it is.

Did I mention Chuck made up that bullshit story about the Galapagos? Yeah, fuck him.

[Heroic Mulatto]

An open letter to libertarians asking them to recognize the need for collective action to solve various problems and change various behaviors.

No.

Fuck off, Slaver.

[Maxxx]

Wow, Robert Frank has a superficial understanding of evolution and extrapolates that flawed understanding into economics.

How much does this jack hole get paid for his fantasies?

[Restoras]

It is generally wise to educate yourself before making pronouncements such as this.

Try this, if you have the brains for it.

[Maxxx]

Frank's core argument is that individual competition causing evolution leads to results that are negative to a species as a whole. With peacocks and walruses as his examples, although I'm sure he has many more.

Which is stunningly arrogant. The idea that he, Robert Frank, has god like omniscience to decide what the optimal morphology of all species is and how and why nature has deviated from his ideal.

Not sure what your point is because, that egotistical attitude is the opposite of valuing emergent order. Questions the validity of the concept emergent order entirely.

[califronian]

Actually Maxxx is rights. "species selection" is an erroneous theory long-debunked. Of course, there is always a chance that new evidence will come to light but frankly, using "species selection" as an analogue to an economy is like using "garden of eden" theory to explain a medical solution.

[John Lewis]

I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Jean-Lewis Picard?

[ohura]

but but the tribbles are waay cute

[Rev. Blue Moon]

That's spacism, straight up.

[Maxxx]

Translation of his suit parable.

"I don't understand what traits are important in investment banking and lawyering so I believe interviewers in those fields act irrationally."

[Fist of Etiquette]

Shouldn't Frank be holding up a copy of The Declaration of Independents?

[American Delight]

If I were a peahen looking for a peacock, even though he has the big bright tail which may increase his odds for becoming prey, I still might give him the edge because the tail is a sign of his strong immune system. I'm not sure that's irrational..

[Maxxx]

Exactly.

Beyond that though, Frank is assuming that he knows that increased predation is a greater risk to that species than parasitism, despite the contrary real world historical evidence provided by evolution itself.

[Maxxx]

Robert Frank -

We've seen cut backs in basic programs

What fucking universe does this jack off live in?

[Chris]

That sort of silliness is mind blowing. I can't watch the video now as my baby is sleeping in the other room, but man, if he said that it is far too easy to deduce where the rest if his argument lead - straight into the shitter.

[Chris]

Also Mr. Frank,

We've seen cut backs in basic programs

Just who the Hell do you think you are talking to here when you agreed to the video? If you don't know the numbers as well as we do, you are not prepared for us.

[Chris]

And yes, we mean both state and federal outlays, so don't try that runaround.

[Tony]

The point is evolution is the appropriate analogue to free market capitalism, but that is why it should be treated with a huge amount of skepticism. Natural selection is hardly an optimal way to live, not just because of the wasteful inefficiencies that result from arms races and the like, but because the central mechanism of natural selection is widespread death and destruction. "Emergent complexity" happens because the unfit die off, leaving beneficial traits to accumulate in the tiny minority of survivors. That's not how we should want a society to work. It has nothing whatsoever to do with fairness.

[Maxxx]

Natural selection is hardly an optimal way to live, not just because of the wasteful inefficiencies that result from arms races and the like, but because the central mechanism of natural selection is widespread death and destruction.

Or looked at from a different perspective, evolution is all about growth and improvement.

Death and destruction are the natural orders of the universe (until you can reverse the laws of thermodynamics and apoptosis.

[Tony]

The cool thing about having brains is that we can improve our lot without having to wait around for a blind culling process to do it for us (rather, for the tiny minority of us who survive). Civilization is about smoothing over the risks of living in nature, there's no need to celebrate and imitate them.

[califronian]

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design"

[Tony]

"Then there was the Hoover Dam. And the Internet. And nuclear power. And the public education. And the highway system. And..."

[sevo]

Tony|10.11.11 @ 4:09PM|#
"Then there was the Hoover Dam."
Which shouldn't have been built

"And the Internet."
Lie

"And nuclear power."
Which is not available

"And the public education."
Which isn't education.

"And the highway system."
ROAAADS

"And..."
Shithead proves once again that shithead is a shithead.

[l0b0t]

Russ Roberts had Frank as a guest on EconTalk a few weeks ago. It's worth a listen. http://www.econtalk.org/archiv.....ompet.html

[Chris]

God, I hate those videos and wished his argument was committed to type where I can properly vet them.

Does he start with the leftist fallacy that socialism is actually cooperative, whereas in practice it is not? Does he recognize that capitalism is voluntary and thus relies on a higher order of cooperative behavior? If he doesn't confront those truths but relies on the false assumptions built into collectivist political economic theory then he is wasting his time and needs to start all over again.

[Reichsmarschall Mark]

Ja, it is about time that vee finally hat dee important conversation on vhat is necessary fur dee Kommon Gut!

I haf personally defeloped a plan fur achiefing dee Kommon Good through a lightning offensif through the Red States...

[califronian]

Libertarians are absolutely in favor of collective action. Planning and collective action are central to a free society.

Oh, he means government-run, centrally-planned, lethally-enforced "collective" action. That's different. And stupid. And requires total ignorance of the entire 20th century's history in order to say such a thing with a straight face.

[Nike Dunk High]

thanks