The Future Has Been Called Off, Says Venture Capitalist Peter Thiel
Over at National Review, venture capitalist Peter Thiel is downbeat about the future. Why? Because innovation seems to be stalling and without innovation economic growth slows to a crawl as do increases in living standards. Thiel cites flat income growth as evidence for dramatically slowed Progress:
If meaningful scientific and technological progress occurs, then we reasonably would expect greater economic prosperity (though this may be offset by other factors). And also in reverse: If economic gains, as measured by certain key indicators, have been limited or nonexistent, then perhaps so has scientific and technological progress. Therefore, to the extent that economic growth is easier to quantify than scientific or technological progress, economic numbers will contain indirect but important clues to our larger investigation.
The single most important economic development in recent times has been the broad stagnation of real wages and incomes since 1973, the year when oil prices quadrupled… Taken at face value, the economic numbers suggest that the notion of breathtaking and across-the-board progress is far from the mark. If one believes the economic data, then one must reject the optimism of the scientific establishment.
So how to jumpstart innovation? Thiel offers a surprising solution:
Let us end with the related question of what can now be done. Most narrowly, can our government restart the stalled innovation engine?
The state can successfully push science; there is no sense denying it. The Manhattan Project and the Apollo program remind us of this possibility. Free markets may not fund as much basic research as needed.
Wow. However, in economics the effect of innovation on economic growth is measured by total-factor productivity [PDF].TPF accounts for effects in total output not caused by inputs, making it a measure of an economy's long-term technological change or technological dynamism. Recent research reports that U.S. TPF in the 1960s grew at 1.9 percent per year; the rate dropped to 0.9 percent in the 1970s; bumped up to 1.1 percent and 1.3 percent in the 1980s and 1990s respectively. TPF rose only 0.7 percent during the first decade of the 21st century.
George Mason University economist Tyler Cowen (author of The Great Stagnation) uses figures from the San Francisco Federal Reserve to derive the TPF graph below:
The whole Thiel article is a depressing but worthwhile read.
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Free markets may not fund as much basic research as needed.
One wonders how the nation/economy ever managed to crawl out of the 19th century without the benevolent direction of govt oversight and investment.
Uh, it didn't do any such thing? We'd still be in the 19th century technology-wise if not for investments and innovations heavily funded by government. Things like the highway system, the computer, and the internet come to mind. Not to mention nuclear power--if not for government spending on research we'd still be burning fossil fuels for energy! Can you imagine?
Not the real Tony.
None of the shit you mentioned occured in the 19th century.
Because obviously an arbitrary point on a calendar matters more than the fucking point at hand.
Um, some of us think the evidence should relate to the point.
you forgot the cure for polio! Without the NIH, polio would be the scourge of the Earth!!one!
The interstate highway system was a disaster that led to urban sprawl, air pollution, and traffic jams.
Hey how many Reason mag readers and commenters are participating in the block Wall Street protests. Seems like you'd have a lot!
Nah. We'd rather deal with corruption at the source. Wall Street is corrupt? Fine. So is Halliburton. So is Enron. So is Solyndra. So is LightSquared. What exactly connects all these different things, and is there a single geographical location that ties them together?
The answer is yes, and it ain't New York City.
Why is Halliburton corrupt? They are still in business and not bankrupt.
Why would I have a problem with Wall Street? All they did was take free money when offered to them. That's exactly what I'd do.
Libertarians don't like to hear it, but free markets don't just emerge fully formed from the brow of Rothbard, they must evolve in a environment conducive to them. We don't have a culture of free market science. We never had for pure theoretical science. Oh sure we occasionally fond some philanthropist or foundation willing to fund a project here or there, but the history of science is one of the government funding. It might have come from a benevolent dictator, or a king funding alchemists, or an idle aristocrat, but basic science research funding has always come from the ruling class.
This doesn't me we just accept that situation, but it does mean that there are better paths to libertopia than instantly cutting off all public scientific funding.
So all the R&D departments of various corporations have never made any discoveries?
I'm still rooting for Stephanie Kwolek to win the nobel prize in chemistry. It'll never happen, of course, because academes hate women in science.
"but the history of science is one of the government funding."
Since when?
Oh bull $hit. What we have is a culture of historical ignorance.
John Bardeen, William Shockley, and Walter Brattain of Bell Labs invented the transistor
Jack Kilby of Texas Instruments and Robert Noyce of Fairchild semiconductor were both credited with the invention of the integrated circuit.
Intel invented the microprocessor.
Claude Shannon of Bell Labs paper "A Mathematical Theory of Communication" published in the Bell System Technical Journal is arguably the most cited paper ever. This paper is the basis for every digital electronic gizmo you own. He is quite deservedly considered "the father of information theory".
There was this guy named Thomas Edison.
A tour of the Scientific Research Lab of my company on any given day will reassure even the most non-technical person that that wizardry continues.
I'm looking around the crib at all the "non progress" since the 1970's that Derp Head Thiel seems to posit - yep, I remember having all this shit when I was 11, 12...not.
Mr. Thiel shall henceforth be known as The Quaalude, cause he's such a downer.
In 1960 we spent 3% of GDP on R&D. Today we spend 3% of GDP on R&D.
How is this the problem again?
Is my little Peter Pan having trouble with Nevernever land?
http://rctlfy.wordpress.com/20.....the-party-?the-voice-of-reality/
rectal can't even post a link right. Fuck, you're stupid.
you are an idiot, epi/
Poor epi can't make the connection.
Peter Thiel is downbeat about the future, and I agree with the libertarian dickhead
Why would you change your name in your reply? Hmmm...this is failgrade talking to yourself, you didn't even change the email address.
Sherlock, that's because it is epi playing rather, and he masturbates all over his keyboard when he types rather, rather, rather
epi, your mommy said to do it in your frilly sock
Fuck, you're stupid.
Epi didn't post under the name "Zombie rather" you illiterate cunt.
THIS EMOTIONAL HOLE WON'T FILL ITSELF. DADDY NEVER LOVED ME. LOVE MEEEEEEEEEEE
The state can successfully push science; there is no sense denying it. The Manhattan Project and the Apollo program remind us of this possibility. Free markets may not fund as much basic research as needed.
The last 40 or so years of public research funding apparently don't really count. All we need is another giant existential crisis and everything will be alright. Maybe we haven't gotten our war on enough. Let's invade China! We've already got nukes (Manhattan Project) and delivery mechanisms (Apollo) but nobody wants to use them, so we'll have to innovate in order to come up with some completely new atrocity. How about self-replicating autonomous killbots? That sounds like a good one.
Where have I heard this line of thinking before? Oh, right, from every neocon at National Review with unresolved daddy issues. Yawn.
That government tends to spend money funding research into killing foreigners is a political problem, not an argument that government just can't do innovation (because it can't do anything).
I've yet to hear the political rhetoric that gets people as excited to spend tax money on useful things as they do for blowing foreigners up, but it's theoretically possible.
Why does Rice play Texas? We choose to go to the moon in this deck-aid, and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard....
Somehow we had the technology in 1962 to get to the moon in 10 years, but 50 years later, we don't.
We actually could.
If we were willing to throw money at it, make production decisions on engineering grounds rather than on the basis of which congress-critter needs a pork-barrel project, and accept that spaceflight might kill some people.
It's not clear that it is really necessary, and even less clear that people care enough.
Which is too bad if you like your geek porn with POWER.
I'd prefer not to spend $150 billion dollars on gigantic pissing contests with the Russians that accomplish exactly zero when it comes to improving anybody's life.
"That government tends to spend money funding research into killing foreigners is a political problem, not an argument that government just can't do innovation (because it can't do anything)."
It's no coincidence that the only notable government achievements happen in industries that are nationalized. There's no competition to measure them by.
Lemme guess, Thiel has some ideas on what big projects the government should get behind? And, goddammit, if he needs to throw his weight around to get it to do what he wants, so be it!
I look forward to Thiel seeing his now-corrupted dream fulfilled as an uninhabited floating mega-city parked a mere 1000 feet off Santa Monica Pier, taking on water listing to one side, spewing sewage by the gigaton, run by the Coast Guard, DHS, and Post Office. A libertarian dream!
LOL
Do you like making posts under one handle then LOL'ing your own posts under a different handle, rectal?
Fuck, you're stupid.
fuck off you piece of shit, epi
why don't you send another email?
"The thing with tits is picking on me"
LOL
Fuck, you're stupid.
Cum and STFU -your mommy has milk and cookies ready for after your nap
Epi didn't post under the name "Zombie rather" you illiterate cunty windbag.
do you mean "third person", "Fuck, you're stupid", or "Mommy the girl is picking on me epi"?
I don't even try to keep them straight
HA HA HA THAT IS A BRILLIANT POINT. YOU ARE A SMART PERSON WHOEVER YOU ARE.
YOU ARE ALSO QUITE SMART HA HA HA
WE ARE SO POPULAR EVERYONE LOVES US
Massive deregulation. Elimination of capital gains taxes and the simplification and reduction of income taxes. More and legally limited government, all levels.
Boom times and scientific and technological fun times.
That's to read "more limited" before anyone tries to suggest anything else.
sexual robots to be flooded in six months
DADDY NEVER LOVED ME. NOW I'M A SEXUAL ROBOT.
That, plus telling the greenies to get a grip while we drill and frack our way closer to energy independence.
Oh, and I've got an idea for Peter Thiel. You're a frickin billionaire. Go fund some basic research. If it's that important, surely it's worth pursuing voluntarily, isn't it?
Anyone who does not have some money invested in to some kind of concept development is a dumbass, especially those in his kind of position.
he actually does, e.g. perimeter institute
For a venture capitalist this guy is pretty pessimistic. The future has so many promising possibilities, space, robotics, nano technology, computing, genetics, and many things nobody has thought of yet.
This.
The materials and AMO guys are doing really nifty things even in academia, and they are constantly looking over their shoulders because they know they have competition in industry that publishes less, but patents more.
Am I reading this chart correctly this was about the time we went off of the gold standard? Sheesh, Ron Paul is right.
We went off the gold standard in WWII. Nixon only killed the nominal gold standard we had (which was only invoked in inter-governmental trade).
technically we went off the gold standard the first time during FDR (for a week). Going off the gold standard really hit the shit though when the window was officially closed by Nixon, because it was basically at that time that all hope to return was lost.
No you are not reading it correctly because it is what ya call libertarianized -meaning any data that does not fit the little shit's story is hockey sticked.
Innovation has taken place all over the world in universities payed for with tax-dollars, and sold to the highest bidder -sometimes just to to keep out of the market
name one.
I wish I may
"The state can successfully push science; there is no sense denying it. The Manhattan Project and the Apollo program remind us of this possibility."
How much dynamic growth did Thiel measure--comin' outta those moon rocks and flattening Nagasaki and Hiroshima?
Also, I guess he's speaking in U.S. terms 'cause there may not be as much in the way of innovation and progress as he'd like here in the U.S., but a lot of the innovation we consider passe here in the U.S. is just starting to take off in the developing world.
Or does somebody wanna tell me that the people of China aren't really better off than they were in 1973?
C'mon!
No innovation in South America? Every nation in the developing world should have as little innovation going on as Brazil does. It may not all seem like new innovation here in the U.S., but if it's being implemented there for the first time on such a large scale? It might as well be new innovation.
"How much dynamic growth did Thiel measure--comin' outta those moon rocks and flattening Nagasaki and Hiroshima?"
I mean, seriously...
The growth we see in that graph happened in the twenty years or so after the industrial capacity of the everywhere else in the world--except in the U.S--was leveled by World War II.
The industrial capacity of Europe was completely flattened in World War II. Japan's industrial capacity was flattened in World War II.
Looks like a convenient time to pick for the purposes of this analysis--if you want to show that we're not growing at such a rate now that all that industrial capacity is back online.
Good point. It's more efficient and profitable to sell existing technology to emerging markets than to invent something new to sell in developed countries. Maybe innovation comes in cycles that alternate between discovery and dissemination.
This piece seems pretty similar to the "oh noes we can't do anything big anymore" whine from Neal Stephenson, which seems to equate "big things" with "space travel".
Apparently SpaceX planning to launch reusable rockets at 1/30th the price of a shuttle flight by 2013 isn't enough of an advance in space travel. It's a shame the federal "We" can't do it anymore.
I know. It's ridiculous. Huge order-of-magnitude advances in space economics? Boring. Amazing advances in quantum computing? Boring. Super computers half the size of a deck of cards, connected to nearly all of the information produced by humanity in it's history wirelessly? Boring. Soon-to-be mass produced, possibly commerically viable electric cars, that are actually cool? Boring. Continuous reductions in cancer death rates over decades? Boring. Continuous drops in violent crime over decades? Boring. Continuous improvements in how we manage to feed the world, even as population increases? Boring. Incredible medical advances based on genetic engineering, robotics, micro-imaging, bioinformatics? Boring. Robot probes that survive for nearly a decade driving around on another planet?
What's exciting? Sending people to march around on that same planet where the probes have been doing a fine job.
+ 10 to Id
Good post
What's exciting?
Killin furreners
They'll likely be doing manned flights to Mars by about the time the government would've gotten us back to LEO.
Although, it is tempting to fund a manned mission to Mars if I get to choose who leaves to planet to go on the flight.
If we wanted government to push space technology, we should have used the space shuttles to build a space elevator.
Once in place, it would be a huge incentive to private space enterprise.
We should make it a manned mission to the sun, just to be safe.
I think there is a bit of unrealistic expectations when it comes to the time frames for major advances in engineering and technology. It's understandable when you look at the incredible jumps in progress that mankind has made over the last century, but the idea that this progress is a constant upward slope would be to ignore the lessons from the past. There is no guarantee that the slope remains "upward" nor constant.
Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded ? here and there, now and then ? are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck."
Robert Heinlein
The fact that the graph is keyed to a logarithmic scale is a clue that it is not very helpful in terms of the trend it is supposed to demonstrate. Total factor productivity is useful as a theoretical tool, attempts to give it value are kind of silly. The other clue is that GMU's economics department is littered with dilettantes.
Using the logarithmic scale makes perfect sense if you are comparing rates of growth. Try again.
But it doesn't make sense if you're comparing, say, nominal growth gains. There's no particular reason why constant growth in percentage terms is the only way to evaluate whether stagnation is occurring or whether a country's optimizing its potential.
For an example, consider someone who starts working. Over the first five years, his salary doubles from where it starts. Yet over 40 years of work we wouldn't expect his salary to reach 256 times his starting salary.
The same applies to the US, where percentage gains came easier after World War II and more difficult once we'd exhausted the easy sources of gains (no competition, labor market reforms, lack of world wars).
Also, we're talking about the natural log of a figure with significant methodological issues. You have the question of whether all man-hours and capital-hours are equal, how important the informal economy is, how relevant GDP is, etc. The point is, it's a somewhat interesting but extremely incomplete metric.
How depressing is it that a freaking venture capitalist, when asked how to jumpstart innovation, can't think of anything except MOAR BIG GOVERNMENT! MOAR MOAR MOAR!
give him a break. Theil's a really huge libertarian, and thinking that the government is the only entity able to do science is a common libertarian error. It doesn't help that there are all of three libertarians in science, and one of the other ones works in my office.
"Thinking that the government is the only entity able to do science is a common libertarian error."
Say what?!
Seriously. Once had a professor come up to me and say that he was a libertarian (I believe that he's economically conservative and socially liberal, anyway) and express sympathy for "limiting government scope" but of course he had to get his NIH funding.
hell, even I'm partially paid by the worst of all the agencies the DOE. But I'm also basically slave labor (and I responded to an ad on craigslist not knowing where the funding came from). I draw the line at actually asking for money as a PI. We'll see how long I survive.
I appreciate that some libertarians might take some money from the NIH if it behooves them to do so--but that doesn't mean most libertarians think that "the government is the only entity able to do science".
That just means they think when the government wants to give them some money personally--that's always a good idea!
If Barack Obama wanted to write me a check for a billion, I wouldn't let my libertarian beliefs stand between me and the nearest bank.
...doesn't mean I think the government squandering money on research or anything else like that is a good idea from a libertarian standpoint.
well, I might have been a bit hyperbolic when I used the word "only".
There are government grants for Global Warming research. A climate modeler can fund the research he was planing to do anyway if he adds paragraphs to the grand application and the post research journal article that tangentially relate his research to Global Warming, so he does just that. Repeat this process for 25 grants per year for 3 decades, and suddenly the scientific literature is full of articles that mention Global Warming as a fact.
Well, some people who call themselves libertarians get off the bus a little bit earlier than the rest. Of all the ways government spends money, spending it on basic, hard science or technological research is among the least bad.
Of course, some of the problems with commercial research have to do with the ease of obtaining patents for marginal or decades-old advances far removed from their inventors and their companies, and that itself is a government intervention.
Rich people could do science too, if there was something in it for them in terms of legacy. I mean, if Bill Gates funds some blue sky research that leads to a Nobel Prize, why shouldn't he share the prize? Might lead to more private funding for non-investment purposes.
This is pretty much a description of DE Shaw. He has a hedge fund and a research facility in his name, with the former to help fund the latter.
MOAR MOAR MOAR!
You bastard, now I've got Andrea True rattling around inside my head.
Replace it with Odyssey.
Consider the most literal instance of non-acceleration: We are no longer moving faster. The centuries-long acceleration of travel speeds ? from ever-faster sailing ships in the 16th through 18th centuries, to the advent of ever-faster railroads in the 19th century, and ever-faster cars and airplanes in the 20th century ? reversed with the decommissioning of the Concorde in 2003, to say nothing of the nightmarish delays caused by strikingly low-tech post-9/11 airport-security systems.
What the fuck is he arguing for? Bullet trains? 200mph highways? It's pretty obvious why we stopped going faster: a whole bunch of costs (and risks) are proportional to the square of the travel speed. In a world where I can instantly have a video conversation with someone on the other side of the planet, those costs aren't often worth paying for. Is this a failure of progress?
To a first approximation, the progress in computers and the failure in energy appear to have roughly canceled each other out. Like Alice in the Red Queen's race, we (and our computers) have been forced to run faster and faster to stay in the same place.
We've been staying in the same place? Really? Try driving a car from the 70's compared to even the cheapest new car you'll find today, then tell me there's been no progress.
This guy is just a disaffected vulture capitalist who's sick of getting the same pitches week after week and has devalued his own area of expertise because it doesn't look very interesting as an insider. Combine that with a healthy dose of stupid starry-eyed future predictions that could easily have come from any time since the industrial revolution started and it's easy to paint a glum picture of the present.
That's a problem with success - trying to repeat it. Appears that Thiel is having trouble duplicating his previous successes - and needs someone/something to blame.
Yeah, there is a point where man's reach exceeds his grasp.
But still, I don't suppose there is anything stopping scientists from using a piece of chalk and blackboard to work out better engines for space travel, at least in theory.
theil's "government supported science bubble" is an awful idea. Funding more scientists ignores the fact that *there is a limited pool of scientific talent*, will lead to corruption, and just as bad, the inability of managers to distinguish between a competent and an incompetent scientist (what is the litmus test? a PhD, the new BA?). Productivity will get worse, not better.
The irony is that a major call for increased science funding by seven cash-strapped, overhead-hungry research institutions, has a serious fraudster regaled with a full-page featurette on page seven.
http://www.brokenpipeline.org/brokenpipeline.pdf
Funding more scientists ignores the fact that *there is a limited pool of scientific talent*, will lead to corruption, and just as bad, the inability of managers to distinguish between a competent and an incompetent scientist (what is the litmus test? a PhD, the new BA?).
Good lord, man. Have you never even met a scientist? The litmus test is the ability to publish papers and get grant applications approved.
Productivity will get worse, not better.
I can guarantee you that if you throw more money at public research funding, productivity will get better. More grants means more grant applications can get approved. More working scientists means a larger pool of potential reviewers and post-grads to actually write papers. Just an hour's time in the lab can generate four or five different publishable results if only there were enough grad student monkeys to massage the data and hack together some unreviewed, unpublished and undocumented R code to analyze the results!
Have you never even met a scientist?
Well, for starters, I am one. Published and everything. And I was instrumental in exposing one instance of federally-funded scientific fraud. I've also seen many many grad students pass through one of the "top ten" in my field, and I have seen some extremely disappointing thesis defenses. And then I pulled a stint as a postdoc at a state school. That was depressing. So yeah, my perspective on scientists is very informed.
I can guarantee you that if you throw more money at public research funding, productivity will get better.
California stem cell initiative. How'd that work out?
one time, in my lab, I told a slightly more senior grad student (golden child of the lab) that his observations were artefactual. I then went and redid his experiment, and got a result that was substantially improved, which also called into question his other results. I put the results on his desk, telling him, "the ball is in your court". Of course nothing happened. Kid later won "national grad student of the year" award, no shit. And my boss, on two occasions, failed to submit a letter of recommendation for me. The last laugh is mine though, I now work for a nobel laureate and am doing some groundbreaking research. Funded privately, too.
ok, maybe the "national graduate student of the year award" was actually the Harold Weintraub award but nonetheless.
What field are you in?
Helle, he's a real scientist; he doesn't play Auschwitz with the mice
undergrad: Math. Grad: Chemistry (mostly biophysics). Postdoc 1: Biochemistry, natural products isolation. "Postdoc" 2: Synthetic Biology, pathway engineering and genome manipulation.
I'm applying to faculty positions. I don't plan on taking NIH grants. It'll be fun as hell, but damned if I'm going to go down like Doug Prasher did. I plan on making it VERY difficult for them to fire me for lack of soft money.
Nice, I'm a big fan of synth bio.
it's not as great as they say it is. Outside of a handful of pharma products, only two companies, AFAICT, have real commodity products - genomatica, which is making butanediol (a somewhat sketchy plastic monomer, since it metabolizes to GHB if it hydrolyzes) and draths, which is making 'green' caprolactam for nylon-6, but IIRC in the end they went with a chemical process instead of the synth bio process.
Yeah I need to look at private sector stuff more. This guy's son was a friend of mine in high school. I've been reading his papers for years.
I think your sarcasm detector is off. My point is that results are far too often defined as publications and grant approvals (particularly in academia), so of course throwing money at research will increase productivity.
I think we're in concordance here =)
Oh, and I'm a published somebody too - been on both sides of the peer review farce - though I failed to make it through the Ph.D. program due to a severe motivational failure.
managerial mistake. Let me guess - you were put on a high risk project and got burned out after three years of putzing around. this happened to basically *every* grad student I knew, and the ones that survived were either 1) lucky bastards 2) hard headed bastards (like me) or 3) too dumb to realize what was going on.
+10 to yonemoto
it's an amazing thing when you are finishing up your grad school in 2008, campaigning for Ron Paul, reading and understanding Austrian Economics, predicting economic collapse (when everyone laughs in your face at dire doomsaying of S&P500; going down to 800)... And then applying the principles of Austrianism to what you see around you.
I got out with a Masters in 2005. My Master's project showed that a person's nationality is a poor predictor is his values. This finding discredited Huntington's Clash of Civilizations theory which was the prevailing theory at the time. Half my thesis advisers were furious and thought I was an upstart who knew nothing. Then the Arab Spring happened. This year, I visited my mentor who said that I was right after all.
Thiel forgot that wealth and technology only grow together in a truly capitalist system.
I just want cars that reliably drive themselves commercially available within 10 years. Thus the end of automobiles as the leading cause of accidental death, DWIs, etc. I hate driving, and would rather spend that hour to hour and a half playing Solitaire on my laptop or something. I think it's viable.
Also, nanorobots.
It's not only viable, but they're are at least two companies in the alpha testing stages. Hooray for reinforcement learning!
they are are... I think I meant to type "there are"
Lol, you are so predictable
Lol, I am a cunt
and I like mine
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and if you want to call me a bitch:
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No, see you're cunt is so huge that you can simply be considered one big cunt. Which, coincidentally, is what you act like.
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STFU, you twelve year old
I'll point out that the start of the "Great Stagnation" matches pretty closely with the birth of the EPA (December 3, 1970). How much productivity isn't showing up because improving environmental quality isn't counted as an output?
We have had a large improvement in the quality of our environment, starting about the time that the "Great Stagnation" started, because many environmental laws that Richard Nixon agreed to, were passed and came into affect about that time. In addition, those laws imposed costs on our society. I think it is fair to say that the majority of us agree that some of the costs were worthwhile, while others are more dubious. We need to have a better discussion about how much more we want to bend down this curve with additional environmental regulations that have, at best, marginal impact on environmental conditions. Much of the justification for new rules is based on calculations that have weak bases for their assumed health impact, and these need to be scrutinized most carefully.
honestly, most of it was the SOx and NOx trading schemes. Unfortunately, instead of creating a CO2 scheme that replicates those successes, the feds seem to want to put in place a crony-capitalism laden albatross.
This is right up there with the "end of history" and the "end of physics" people who turn up every now and then.
the end of physics people were right. I mean, what has physics done in the last 20 years.... Added a few more particles to the list, made a bogus claim about ftl neutrinoes...
However, in economics the effect of innovation on economic growth is measured by total-factor productivity [PDF].TPF accounts for effects in total output not caused by inputs, making it a measure of an economy's long-term technological change or technological dynamism.
This definition makes no sense unless someone's created a perpetual motion machine. And so far as I know, the first law of thermodynamics is still firmly in place.
The inputs may not be man's labor, but they're energy of some sort (in this case, OIL MUTHAFUCKA).
Want to know when the peak rate increase for oil production/consumption occured? That's right, the mid 70's. Oil was the substitution for manual labor that drove productivity bitches.
Suck it Peter Theil
So what happened in the 1960s to dramatically weaken productivity growth? Runaway government spending and debt, perhaps?
The mass realization that it is easier in the current climate to either be a government drone or a crony than it is to be productive?
The single most important economic development in recent times has been the broad stagnation of real wages and incomes since 1973
I did not RTFA, but if this quote is any indication of the stoopid that lies within, I'm not going to waste my time.
Seriously. Who fucking cares if real wages have stagnated if those real wages allow you to buy more and better stuff? Look, I'm all for growth of real wages. But there is no comparison between what you could buy for $100 in 1973 (in today's money) vs. what you can buy in 2011.
The saddest part of this story is that Peter Thiel was supposed to be some sort of "libertarian billionaire"....
RTFA. He's right about most of the stuff in there, and the federally funded science part is a really small sliver of the whole thing.
Who came up with the idea of using a log-linear time-series graph to plot productivity data?
Convert the log-index data to ordinary index data, and it's clear that the great stagnation occurred in the 1970s and early 1980s. This period slightly lags massive government spending on projects like the Apollo program and the Synfuels Corporation. It takes off again in 1988. However, I doubt that many statists would attribute that to massive government spending on Star Wars technology.
Wherever there is a graph, there is someone who wants to draw a line on it.
The "stagnation line" isn't even a decent fit...if there is a relationship it might be log-log rather than log-linear, or maybe some fractional power of log. But you have to have a convincing reason for a relationship between variables before you just start fitting power laws to it.
About fucking time this got said. Too bad it will be a net loss for his campaign, but at least the man can look himself in the mirror.
Good for him. What did Gary Johnson say?
For fuck's sake. How can you handle reading those comments?
Warty must be drinking and breaking things to compensate. Its the only explanation.
I think he beats up old ladies while on angel dust. That's more his style.
Fuck, TEAM BLUE is dumb.
What makes TEAM BLUE slightly dumber than TEAM RED is that TEAM BLUE retards think they are the "smart TEAM", which is so fucking dumb that it calls into question whether they are even sentient.
Of course, TEAM RED likes to revel in their dumbness, and that's almost worse.
Ron Paul as John McCain 2.0 is the best part.
Yeah, there is no clearer way for this guy to demonstrate his utter lack of knowledge. OOPS
Cuz they're like both old, and stuff
Massive government spending on science research diverts researchers from pursuing more productive research. Climate modeling is a case in point. It would be very helpful to be able to predict the total monthly rainfall 10 months in advance so that farmers could plant the variety of a crop that is best suited for that amount of rain. Instead of producing climate models to help us predict weather 10 months from now with great accuracy, the vast majority of modelers are trying to predict the weather 100 years from now, thanks to Global Warming research funding from the feds.
Who says government science dollars would otherwise be spent on science?
Who says they are now?
Weather is too chaotic of a system to make short-term predictions like that. We would have to be at God-like levels of sophistication to be able to do that at all accurately.
Ummm, predicting the monthly total precipitation 10 months in advance is orders of magnitude easier than predicting it 100 years in advance. The only reason long term climate models haven't been proven wrong is because it takes 100 years to test them. They are like theories on the afterlife in that respect.
Neither timescale is possible to predict with anything approaching current levels of knowledge, so I'm not sure where you're getting the orders of magnitude difference.
Weather at a particular place at a particular time is a chaotic system; small differences in input become uncontrollably large differences in the output of any decent model of weather prediction. And there are always small errors in the measurement inputs.
Also, I know the phrase is abused, but climate isn't weather. If the temperature in Paducah on June 11, 2112 is lower than it was on June 11, 2012, that doesn't contradict anyone's prediction of global warming over the next century. The global warming predictions are of averages over several years at points around the globe. Even if the predictions are correct, there will still be cold winters and cool summers, it's just that the average temperature will go up. Humans who live during the next century wouldn't be able to perceive the temperature change directly, only through careful statistical analysis and/or the negative effects on the biota.
1. Careful statistical analysis - Not going to happen with the current crop of 'climate scientist'.
2. Negative effects on the biota ? Warming would have a POSITIVE effect on the biota. OTOH, as can be seen from the Little Ice Age a cooling would have a NEGATIVE effect on the biota.
Hey Epi, are you gonna go meet Foxy Knoxy at the airport tomorrow? After four years in prison even you might have a shot if you shave your back and put on some clean boxers!
Anon bot here with a PSA: Rectal is the future Secretary of the Erotics. I only put her in charge because of schadenfreude and stuff. LOL
Jess
http://www.anymouse.com
Peter Thiel, yet another crony capitalist pretending to be a libertarian. Shocking.
Fuck him. That whole episode where Palantir cozied up to the feds with a Wikileaks-destruction proposal made me retch.
The episode where he made Slatetards foam at the mouth for offering funding to youths to become full-time entrepreneurs right after high school makes up for it, IMO. Shit was cash.
But if kids don't go to college to get indoctrinated who will carry on Jacob Weisberg's legacy?
But seriously, nothing scares liberals more than thought of a generation of capitalists dedicated to changing the world through innovation and business rather than grass-roots populist movements.
No more Hank Williams on MNF. Godwinning the future has consequences.
"Obama. And Biden. Are you kidding? The Three Stooges."
There's a reason guitar pickers should stick to picking guitars.
Comparing Obama to Hitler is ridiculous. Hitler was a much better dancer.
Not to mention his cross-over move.
I prefer his ice show myself.
You know who else the media went to great pains to ensure was never publicly disrespected?
Hank Williams Jr.'s use of similes is just slightly disappointing, considering he's a musician.
Re: environmental regs, post Nixon:
"In addition, those laws imposed costs on our society.I think it is fair to say that the majority of us agree that some of the costs were worthwhile, while others are more dubious."
Perhaps, but one of the themes of the locally-pimped book "Declaration of Independents" (Gillespie/Welsh) is that government is a trailing indicator.
Take, for example, auto emissions. In the '70s, auto mfgrs were required by law to fit X-systems to supposedly reduce emissions.
Now the law could only have come about by popular support, suggesting that mfgrs could have begun profiting by reducing emissions; that the popular desire was already there.
What we got was really rotten autos, and if they were tracked though their entire useful life, we'd probably find the result was not a real reduction in emissions.
Had mfgrs been allowed to offer various options of reducing emissions, the market would have shortly sorted out the compromise required to 'solve' the problem.
Sounds like cap and trade, which libertarians killed in Congress.
Try again, sev-0.
"Sounds like cap and trade, which libertarians killed in Congress.
Try again, sev-0."
Seems you can't read, and then you tell lies to support your stupidity.
Please tell us of how 'cap and trade' is other than a trailing indicator and tell us which congressional "libertarians" killed it.
Or, stuff your head back up your butt.
There are no libertarians in congress. not one.
Even Ron Paul wants to arrest you for hiring a mexican to mow your lawn.
Just like Stalin wasn't a left-wing guy.
You know we actually have a party, though, right? There are certainly no Libertarians in Congress.
which libertarians killed in Congress
Must be that delegation of 436 disciples of Xenu that you need Roddy Piper glasses to see.
Moore's law. Science and engineering are making more progress faster than ever before.
Obama sits down with Snufalupagus:
If the best case you can make for your reelection three years into your presidency is that you have a vision...
Obama's never been the underdog in any election he's been involved in above the state legislature level.
He had to run against the juggernaut that is Alan Keyes! ALAN KEYES MAN!
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TFP, TPF bah same thing...
Hello my dyslexic brethren.
What's this I hear about you not putting the covers on your TPF reports?
Ah! Yeah. It's just we're putting new coversheets on all the TPS reports before they go out now. So if you could go ahead and try to remember to do that from now on, that'd be great. All right!
DYSLEXICS OF THE WORLD, UNTIE!
Intellectuals:
1. A group of people that get together and award each other PHD's for spewing a bunch of twaddle.
2. Circle jerk.
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