Reason Morning Links: There Was a Debate in Ames Last Night, Mexican Troops Travel to Colorado for Training, Fullerton Six Got a Little Help Writing Their Reports

• GOP Presidential candidates threw cold water on each other last night at the Iowa Fair Grounds. Any more debates like last night, and Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) is going to be president. 
• WaPo fact-checks the slap-fest. 
• L.A. Times: "Fullerton's acting police chief acknowledged Thursday that the department had allowed police officers involved in a deadly encounter with a homeless man to watch a video that captures the incident before writing their reports about it."
• CNN: The Orange County DA who earlier this week said he was not going to bring the Fullerton Six up on attempted murder charges, and then said that he hadn't actually made a decision, is now promising "fair results." 
• U.S. Special Forces trained Mexican troops in Colorado. 
• Appointment to the congressional "super committee" charged with fixing all of America's problems makes for a great fundraising hook. 

New at Reason.tv: "You're Killing Me! Was a police-related jailhouse death an accident or a homicide?"

Comments

[Aqua Buddha]

Cathay Pacific Fires Pilot Who Got Blowjob -- Along With Stewardess Who Gave It To Him
Pull back on the stick!! Not enough throttle!!

NPR: Polar Bear Scientist Faces New Questions
A wildlife biologist is continuing to face questions about an influential paper he wrote on apparently drowned polar bears, with government investigators reportedly asking whether he improperly steered a research contract to another scientist as a reward for reviewing that paper....

[SugarFree]

You back off that Jezebel story, punk. It's mine. You know which one I'm talking about.

[Aqua Buddha]

The polar bear one?

[SugarFree]

Yes. I love polar bears!

[G. Gardner]

Somebody got a blow job from a polar bear?

[PS]

If you love polar bears, why don't you reduce your carbon footprint you selfish bastard!

[T]

It's tough love. The furry bastards need to evolve faster. They won't become unstoppable killing machines without some help.

We need unstoppable polar bears to fight the upcoming robot rebellion, BTW.

[SugarFree]

True. The natural hatred between polar bear robot is all that will save us in the dark times ahead.

I heard Cameron wanted to show John Connor riding a polar bear in the first movie, but the studio killed the idea because of budget restraints. Shortsighted bastards.

[Lodz]

Have you seen my bear?

[PS]

But what if they can't evolve fast enough?

"I am the Slayer of Bears from the Desert of the Dead. They have told
my story for two and a half centuries, and I have been changed by it. I am powerful and wise and good, so far as they are concerned. In this capacity, I owe them some consideration. If I do not give them their lives, who will there be to honor me in snow and chant my story around the fires and cut for me the best portions of the woolly caterpillar?"

[Atanarjuat]

It seems like "blowjob" is a bit graphic for use in a headline. Kids these days.

Also, if the NSFW pics I found on Google image search weren't fake, she's pretty hot.

[Lord Humungus]

Federal officials are kicking around an idea that could ultimately force anyone else operating farm machinery to get a commercial driver's license.
http://www.jsonline.com/business/127077968.html

with a guest appearance by the Commerce Clause: "In one scenario, farmers hauling grain to local elevators would be treated as if they were engaged in interstate commerce because grain, in many cases, eventually leaves the state."

[COMMERCE CLAUSE]

COMMERCE CLAUSE SMASH!

[G. Gardner]

"because grain, in many cases, eventually leaves the state."

Eventually we all leave the state

[DJF]

Using that reasoning since most people who drive passenger vehicles at some time go to other states and engage in some sort of commerce then all divers should be required to have commercial licenses

[gaijin]

you may check out, but you can never leave, The State.

[Rich]

Then all congresscreatures and administration weenies should be required to have a CDL -- and be randomly drug tested.

[Gray Ghost]

They'll just exempt themselves from it, like they do nearly every other piece of Federal legislation.

Bastards. I'd love to see them be forced to operate under all of the red tape that they force on the rest of us.

[O2]

face it, the supremes will uphold obamacare's insurance mandate under the commerce clause.

[Old Mexican]

Re: Double-asshole,

face it, the supremes will uphold obamacare's insurance mandate under the commerce clause.

The Supremes?

[Mr. FIFY]

And, if that happens, it will open up the floodgates for more "mandates".

Fuck that.

[Lord Humungus]

face it, the supremes will cram more slavery down your throats. Hurrah for statism!

[Fist of Etiquette]

GOP Presidential candidates threw cold water on each other last night at the Iowa Fair Grounds.

Is that why everyone is saying Gingrich came off big? Because it was a wet t-shirt contest?

[Aqua Buddha]

Maverick!

[Brett L]

Who? Newcular Titties?

[Ha!]

Newcular Titties

Funny every time!

[Bee Tagger]

I picked the wrong day to stop puking in the morning.

[PIRS]

I watched the debate and I came away with the impression that Gingrich acted like a complete asshole. He was condescending and insulting to his hosts who had the audacity to ask him legitimate questions.

But in the age of sound-bites and tweets perhaps he did.

[sarcasmic]

acted?

[PIRS]

Or "was" if you prefer. He did not act like a gentleman, that is for sure.

[BakedPenguin]

I think "is" is the consensus.

[BakedPenguin]

Nice.

[Aqua Buddha]

The DEA Admits It Had A Hand In Fast And Furious Gun Smuggling Operation
The head of the Drug Enforcement Administration has admitted that the agency knew about and played a role in "Operation Fast and Furious," a botched gunrunning program that allowed more than 2,000 firearms to "walk" across the border into Mexico.
In a letter to the House Committee on Oversight, obtained by the LA Times, DEA administrator Michele Leonhart wrote that DEA agents in Phoenix and El Paso were "indirectly involved" in the Fast and Furious operation run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF). The letter states that the DEA had no "decision-making role" in Fast and Furious....

[R C Dean]

Sounds like we are at the tipping point where the agencies turn on each other in an orgy of blamestorming.

Teh awesome!

[BakedPenguin]

Imagine if we only had a government where heinous actions had repercussions!

[T]

A promotion is a repercussion of a sort, isn't it?

[Quetzalcoatl]

It's certainly a consequence.

[juris imprudent]

I'm sorry but my imagination doesn't go to 11.

[wylie]

blamestorming

Blamenami.

[Gray Ghost]

So when do we get a special prosecutor appointed? And who's going to play the part of Joe Valachi in this little drama? (After a promise of immunity, of course.)

[Bee Tagger]

U.S. Special Forces trained Mexican troops in Colorado.

Apparently they decided to skip the lesson on being inconspicuous. Pun not intended.

[Tim]

The Sheriff kept following them around trying to arrest them.

[Restoras]

+1 for the First Blood reference.

[AlmightyJB]

You mean US Special Forces trained future drug cartel enforcers in Colorado.

[Hillary Clinton]

There's too much money in it to not train them.

[TeamBarstool]

http://www.amazon.com/El-Sicar.....1568586582

[Brett L]

DARPA gets results! Its lean!

"'Yes, we got this wonderful data set from the two flights. Yes, you can cross-reference it with the wind tunnel data,' the source familiar with HTV-2 says. 'Whether that's worth $308 million, I'm not so sure.'"

[Gray Ghost]

OTOH, consider the history of early staged rockets like Jupiter and guided missiles like the Snark and Navajo. Lots of very expensive failures in those programs, but they still provided useful information. Even if that was in the form of, "Stop doing it that way, it won't fucking work."

$308M, even in the tissue paper we call the USD today, is still an awful lot of money though. For something that, the Pentagon's protests aside, is still going to look a whole lot like an ICBM/IRBM during the boost phase.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

Yes, the Jupiter testing, for instance, taught us that squirrel monkeys don't survive flights when the nose cone parachute fails to deploy.

Essential knowledge!

[Brett L]

I feel like Lockheed is the only winner here.

[SugarFree]

Corey Feldman: Pedophilia Is Hollywood's Biggest Problem

[Tim]

I thought Corey Feldman was dead.

[Aqua Buddha]

Corey Feldman: Necrophilia is Hollywood's Biggest Problem

[SugarFree]

That was Haim. This is that ugly kid from Stand By Me.

[Tim]

Wait, wasn't he the ugly kid from Star Trek? Or was that the dumb and ugly kid?

[SugarFree]

I don't know now, but I'm pretty sure he's not the dead one or the kid that got hit by a train. SPOILER!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Idiots. Star Trek was the skinny kid. Feldman was the kid with thick glasses. The fat kid turned into the dude from Sliders. And River Pheonix was in it, too, but it was after his fatal overdose so his scenes didn't turn out so well.

[Pro Libertate]

The corpse was played by Kevin Costner, who specialized in corpses back then.

[SugarFree]

It was the highpoint of his career.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, I did like Bull Durham, and he was great in that.

[SugarFree]

I don't remember a corpse in Bull Durham.

[Pro Libertate]

Yeah, go figure!

[juris imprudent]

Susan Sarandon?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Later in the interview, he said that his friend Corey Haim's suicide could be traced back to abuse at the hands of a "Hollywood mogul." Previously, Feldman had told GQ that he was molested as a child by his own assistant.

No word yet on whether the lesser known of the era's Corey brigade, Corey Parker, was also diddled by his handlers.

[SugarFree]

He was on Will & Grace, so he probably got buggered one way or another.

[Butts Wagner]

What aboot Corey Hart?

[JW]

He died. At night. Impaled on his sunglasses.

[JW]

"Hi, you've reached the Corey hot-line. $4.95 a minute. Here are some
words that rhyme with Corey: Gory. Story. Allegory. Montessori."

[Bardas Phocas]

I don't know if it's their "Biggest" problem. The whole drought in real ideas is the biggest - they made a movie out of a fucking board game.

[Restoras]

It is amazing the crap that gets churned out of Hollywood year in and year out. The only thing that is perhaps more amazing is the consumption of it.

[Tim]

You know what would be great though? A movie based upon a comment thread!

[Pro Libertate]

Don't laugh. The ideas have gotten so bad that it's a likely occurrence. Not our comments, of course, being obscure libertarian militia member fascist racist folk.

[T]

Oh, our commenst would work great. They'll show valorous federal agents tracking us down and arresting us as a threat to the nation. It'll be the feel-good summer hit of 2012, and serve to demonize libertarians even more in the lead-up to the election.

[Ha!]

The ideas have gotten so bad that it's a likely occurrence. Not our comments, of course

Don't be so modest! H&R commentary is as bad as anything out there!

[Quetzalcoatl]

Sturgeon's Law.

[PS]

I want to see a movie based on Ron Swanson. Is that too much too ask?

"SKIM MILK--avoid it"

[SugarFree]

Ron Swanson For President!

[PS]

"I worry what you just heard was: 'Give me a lot of bacon and eggs'. What I said was: 'Give me all the bacon and eggs you have'. Do you understand?"

[Brett L]

Honestly, in the right setting with the right cast, I could see this making at least as much money as Universal Soldier III.

[Butts Wagner]

A movie based upon a comment thread!

I thought we had already agreed on the HnR movie:

Ext - Dome of US Capital

The Jacket crouches and has a scowl on his face, speaking in low guttural tones as he looks with disdain at the government workers racing to and fro on the streets below

The Jacket: The city is a dying whore

[Ska]

Sorry? Sounds parchesi.

*nyuk nyuk nyuk*

[db]

C'mon, Clue was hilarious! What a cast!

[DJF]

Colleen Camp in a maid outfit was pure genius

[db]

+2

[Pip]

http://magnum-mania.com/images/4_12_c_full.jpg

[T]

Lee Ving!

[MP]

Been done.

[Ramsey]

Do you mean the battleship movie or the rock-em sock-em movie?

fuckers need to do better than that.

[Brett L]

Weren't those both directed by Michael Bay? Maybe that's the problem.

[Some Internet Lurker]

Hey!

Clue was the first board game turned movie...
Dr Frank-N-Furter was great as Wadsworth.

[Roman Polanski]

Absurd!

[Mister DNA]

Goddamn, the Kelly Thomas case gets uglier and uglier with each passing day.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"The videotapes were not shown to the officers in an effort to flavor anything."

"We thought letting them coordinate their stories amongst themselves did that well enough."

[Zombie Suki's Rotting Corpse]

Gurgle...gurgle...gurgle...reason....

[Lord Humungus]

Kaus on Obama:
"We've reached the stage in Obama's presidency when he can't seem to do anything right. Even his summer house is on fire. At a similar point in Jimmy Carter's presidency Carter collapsed in a road race. (I urge Obama to refrain from strenuous athletics until his approval rating gets back above 44%.) Everyone's piling on?from the left as well as the right and the center. It's almost enough to make my inner contrarian demand that I defend the guy. Almost, but not quite."

http://dailycaller.com/2011/08.....incurious/

[Red Rocks Rockin]

The morning paper had an article on the speech he gave in Michigan, blaming "politics" for why the country is so dysfunctional.

I'd buy that if it wasn't so obviously about him and the fact that the opposing party isn't rolling over and exposing its underbelly for His Highness. He's being resisted for the first time in his whole life, on a national stage no less, and he doesn't like it.

[Tim]

Libya?

[Average Citizen]

what?

[JW]

It's over there. 2nd door on the left.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I think we won that.

[WTF]

Not yet, but don't worry, weeks, not months. Lots and lots of weeks.

[Troy]

U.S. Special Forces trained Mexican troops in Colorado.

I bet Warty's Penis that within 6 months after the troops return to Mexico, these soldiers are on the payroll of some cartel.

[R C Dean]

At least they'll get a premium for graduate work.

[Nephilium]

Does the Special Forces training count as the equivalent of a Masters degree?

[yonemoto]

Wrong. PhDs get paid less.

[Glibertarian]

They're probably on the payroll right now.

[BakedPenguinZeta]

Plan ahead, esse.

[AlmightyJB]

Guess I didn't scroll down far enough before I commented. You're 100% correct.

[CaptainSmartass]

What makes you think they aren't already?

[Aqua Buddha]

Michelle Bachmann Is The Reason The US Lost Its AAA Rating

Watch Jon Stewart DEMOLISH Megyn Kelly (VIDEO)
Funny, Stewart makes millions off his contract but doesn't support a multi million dollar minimum wage.

[R C Dean]

Yes, the people who fought hardest for spending cuts are the reason we were downgraded for not having enough spending cuts*.

Yes, I know, there weren't any spending cuts. Just working the meme, here, folks.

[Fist of Etiquette]

If we remove the debt ceiling completely, does that mean we get our top rating back?

[G. Gardner]

Did S&P say the downgrade was because of not enough spending cuts or because of the inability of DC to compromise on debt measures?

Because there was this one side that said they would not budge even on inch on one side of the ledger...

[DJF]

"""""Because there was this one side that said they would not budge even on inch on one side of the ledger..."''

I know, those Democrats refused to talk about any real cuts in government.

[G. Gardner]

Boehner: "I got 98 percent of what I wanted. I'm pretty happy

[G. Gardner]

"Some compromise that achieves agreement on a comprehensive budgetary consolidation program--containing deficit-reduction measures in amounts near those recently proposed, and combined with meaningful steps toward implementation by 2013--is our baseline assumption and could lead us to revise the outlook back to stable."

There's that C word...

[G. Gardner]

It's simple. S&P said explicitly their downgrade was because of the poor prospects for compromise. There was one side trumpeting no compromise on one side of the ledge: the GOP on taxes. Not even elimination of tax breaks would be on the table.

[R C Dean]

There was one side trumpeting no compromise on one side of the ledge: the GOP on taxes.

Funny, I seem to recall another side trumpeting no compromise on the other side of the ledger: no entitlement and/or Medicare cuts.

[G. Gardner]

G. Gardner|8.12.11 @ 10:10AM|#
In debt talks, Obama offers Social Security cuts

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

I guess O is not a Dem or SS is not an entitlement.

Do try to keep up when shilling

[R C Dean]

Obama never offered anything at all. He talked, mostly about what he hoped he could get other people to take the blame for, but never put an offer on the table.

Try to separate the wheat from the chaff. When shilling.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Do try to keep up when shilling

Speaking of shilling, did Obama ever actually reveal any sort of plan? Because the CBO explicity stated that it "couldn't score a speech."

[R C Dean]

Sounds to me like the key language there is "deficit reduction measures in amounts near those recently proposed, and combined with meaningful steps toward implementation by 2013."

They are essentially signalling here, if you follow this, that if the supercommittee is successful, they will give us back our AAA. This is a forward-looking statement on what it will take to get AAA back, not a backwards-looking statement on why we lost it.

Try again.

[G. Gardner]

"We view President Obama's and Congressman Ryan's proposals as the starting point of a process aimed at broader engagement, which could result in substantial and lasting U.S. government fiscal consolidation. That said, we see the path to agreement as challenging because the gap between the parties remains wide. We believe there is a significant risk that Congressional negotiations could result in no agreement on a medium-term fiscal strategy until after the fall 2012 Congressional and Presidential elections."

It was the reaching of a mid-level deal that was the cause, it signalled an inability to get a long term compromise.

There was one side that was screaming about compromise being betrayal...Compromise is what RINO's do, ya know?

[G. Gardner]

I like this type of discussion. Right wingnuts offer talk radio talking points with no support, they are answered with counter-facts, right wingnuts happily oblige with more talk radio talking points with no support.

American political debate, gotta love it!

[R C Dean]

We believe there is a significant risk that Congressional negotiations

There's that reference to the supercommittee again. Thanks for helping.

[John Thacker]

We believe there is a significant risk that Congressional negotiations could result in no agreement on a medium-term fiscal strategy until after the fall 2012 Congressional and Presidential elections."

So they're saying that the Republicans were right for wanting to revisit it before the Fall 2012 elections if the two sides couldn't agree upon enough cuts, then?

Very nice of you to admit that President Obama's position was incoherent and slammed by S&P. If he wanted $4T of medium term cuts, but the negotiations only led to half that or less, the responsible thing, according to S&P, was to come back as soon as possible to get the rest of the cuts.

Not to try to push the next debate off until after the 2012 elections, which was Obama's top priority.

Thanks for pointing out how terrible Obama's position was. His "proposal" was as serious as the Republican Balanced Budget Amendment claims-- rhetoric with no plan to match its lofty goals.

[John Thacker]

"We view President Obama's and Congressman Ryan's proposals as the starting point of a process aimed at broader engagement,

And the GOP quite obviously compromised a lot from that "starting point" of Rep. Ryan's proposal.

Glad to see that you agree that the GOP compromised.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

We believe there is a significant risk that Congressional negotiations could result in no agreement on a medium-term fiscal strategy until after the fall 2012 Congressional and Presidential elections."

Basically, that's saying, "We're afraid Congress and the President won't be able to continue to play "extend and pretend," and that economic reality will finally have to be acknowledged."

[Cheeseburger]

Compromise is a dirty word. You don't compromise with evil.

[G. Gardner]

Thanks for proving my point.

Let's review: S&P attributes downgrade to failure to compromise. One side trumpets any compromise as evil, says it got 98% of what it wanted.

Nice!

[Fluffy]

Honestly, so what?

If Bachmann caused the downgrade, then more power to Bachmann.

You don't need a AAA credit rating if you balance your damn budget and pay off your debt.

The very hysteria over the AAA rating exposes exactly how far we've sunk and how exposed and at risk we are: we literally could not function without ongoing infusions of trillions of dollars at the historically anomalous low rates, and so anything that threatens that flow of funds terrifies the brutes.

Anything that brings the day of reckoning closer will benefit us in the end.

[Invisible Finger]

You don't need a AAA credit rating if you balance your damn budget and pay off your debt.

Exactly, the left doesn't give a shit about anything other than appearances. not that the right is much better, but at least the right knew what a bond rating was last year. All the left knows is AAA means they luv us unconditionally.

[John Thacker]

You are talking about Nancy Pelosi's comments about "saving life as we know it on this planet" by not adopting Republican proposals, right?

[John Thacker]

One side trumpets any compromise as evil, says it got 98% of what it wanted.

The end compromise was a huge climbdown from the Republican passed "Cut, Cap, and Balance" and also a huge climbdown from the Ryan budget. The Republicans quite obviously compromised from their House-passed bills.

Boehner got 98% of what he thought a compromise should get him.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Let's review: S&P attributes downgrade to failure to compromise. One side trumpets any compromise as evil, says it got 98% of what it wanted.

What exactly are you pissed off about? The final plan, which Obama ultimately agreed to because he didn't want his bullshit about the country "defaulting" to be exposed, didn't cut a single penny from current spending levels--spending doesn't go down in any single year of the debt ceiling window, nor of the ten-year spending plan.

Furthermore, the Bush/Obama tax rates and Obama FICA cut expire in 2013. So ultimately, the plan raises taxes and raises spending without cutting a single penny of the deficit.

Again, what exactly bothers you about this? It sounds like this is everything a left-wing partisan could dream of.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

the plan raises taxes and raises spending without cutting a single penny of the deficit.

Correction, that should be the national debt, although the supposed deficit cuts are miniscule in comparison to the structural deficit.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Let's review: S&P attributes downgrade to failure to compromise. One side trumpets any compromise as evil, says it got 98% of what it wanted.

Umm, that wasn't the only reason:

We expect the debt trajectory to continue increasing in the medium term if a
medium-term fiscal consolidation plan of $4 trillion is not agreed upon. If
Congress and the Administration reach an agreement of about $4 trillion, and
if we to conclude that such an agreement would be enacted and maintained
throughout the decade, we could, other things unchanged, affirm the 'AAA'
long-term rating and A-1+ short-term ratings on the U.S.

http://www.standardandpoors.co.....5315237257

It's pretty damn simple--S&P said, "Agree to $4 trillion in cumulative cuts--if you can't figure out a way to do this, we're going to downgrade you."

Where was the Democrats plan to cut $4 trillion?

[.]

Let's review: S&P attributes downgrade to failure to compromise. One side trumpets any compromise as evil, says it got 98% of what it wanted.

Boner and the rest of the dicks in the Republican Party establishment may have gotten 98 percent of what he wanted, but the Tea Pary sure as hell didn't.

[dunphy]

"compromise is the language of the devil" - somebody

[Pip]

God I wish it were Thursday.

[Mr Whipple]

The S&P downgraded the US because they realized they should have done it years ago. They were just afraid of a "hunting accident".

You have to factor in the lag time. How long did it take them to downgrade the RMBS and CDOs? Portugal? The downgrade didn't even effect the bond market, in fact, the 10year lost 20 basis points.

Go figure.

[John Thacker]

Yes, he compromised quite a bit, and felt that he got most of what he wanted in a compromise.

But if you can't admit that the actual debt ceiling bill was a HUGE compromise from the House-pass Cut, Cap, and Balance or Ryan's budget-- the latter viewed by S&P as a "good starting point for negotiation" in the report you keep citing, then you're simply being dishonest.

[mad libertarian guy]

I think he's simply being a partisan hack.

[Marshall Gill]

Because there was this one side that said they would not budge even on inch on one side of the ledger...

Yep, pretty absurd how the Dems were completely unwilling to address cuts in entitlements, which are going to bury us.

"We can't get by without $4,000,000,000,000 a year" isn't "compromise".

[G. Gardner]

In debt talks, Obama offers Social Security cuts

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

I guess O is not a Dem or SS is not an entitlement.

I eagerly await your spin!

[John Thacker]

Why exactly should Obama's vague rhetoric about cuts be taken any more seriously that the GOP's advocacy of a Balanced Budget Amendment?

The Republicans talk about a Balanced Budget Amendment but don't actually submit a budget that reaches balance in ten years.

Obama goes one step worse, talking about a goal of achieving the same deficit reduction as the GOP's plan, and then his only budget actually on paper makes no cuts whatsoever.

[scythe]

He's not in Congress and doesn't vote on bills, so I don't see how his talking points are relevant. I could find some guy on the street who calls himself a Democrat and wants to cut Medicare, but that isn't the point.

[Pete Mynack]

S & P said the downgrade was due to lack of spending cuts, period. The debt ceiling debate was a bunch of political theater.

[G. Gardner]

Whoops!

"Standard & Poor's takes no position on the mix of spending and revenue measures the Congress and the Administration might conclude are appropriate.But for any plan to be credible, we believe that it would need to secure support from a cross-section of leaders in both political parties."

http://www.marketwatch.com/sto.....2011-04-18

[O2]

the S&P CEO said the downgrade was about DC politics period. the wingnutz talking points about debt is as hollow as their TP's about the CRA being a proximate cause of the housing crash when the AIG & CUNA lawsuits both state [LYING & MISREPRESENTATION] by BoA & Goldman to investors & rating agencies.

[John Thacker]

the S&P CEO said the downgrade was about DC politics period

In the sense that DC politics will prevent politicians from cutting the debt enough in the medium term, yes. Look at the excerpts that the Green Lantern has been posting from the report.

Although perhaps here you're just a troll trying to make G. Gardner look bad by showing that the Dems have wingnuts who view compromise as evil.

[O2]

the S&P CEO did NOT say the downgrade was about the debt rather DC politics.

[Mr Whipple]

Due diligence, how does it work?

[Rich]

About two hours after House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi released Becerra's name as one of her appointees, an invitation went out inviting Wall Street lobbyists to a $1,500 per-ticket event. The invitation highlighted Becerra's membership on the exclusive committee.

Next!

[Bardas Phocas]

Let the looting begin [CONTINUE]!

[sasob]

a $1,500 per-ticket event.

Mighty expensive rubber chicken that is.

[OO]

>More JOOS vs JOOS!
Israeli protesters demand end to staggering wealth gap
A small group of family-run companies controls 30 percent of the country's economy By ETHAN BRONNER updated 8/12/2011 5:10:07 AM ET 2011-08-12T09:10:07~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A pyramid is a tool to leverage heavily your capital, and retain control over large economic entities," said Prof. Eugene Kandel, Mr. Netanyahu's chief economic adviser, in an interview. "We know from looking at other countries that large and leveraged business groups can slow growth, cause instability and hinder competition. The committee appointed by Prime Minister Netanyahu works to prevent this from growing into a large-scale program in Israel."

Daniel Doron, who directs the Israel Center for Social and Economic Progress, a pro-market research organization, said he was convinced that the way in which failing state assets were privatized in the 1980s and '90s led to dangerous consolidation, just as it did in the former Soviet Union and some Arab countries, like Egypt and Syria.

Banks, construction and mining companies, all owned by agencies of the state and all in varying degrees of trouble, were sold to those who could afford to buy them.

"It was basically selling assets to cronies," Mr. Doron said. Once the economy started to pick up in the late 1990s, these companies used their powerful market positions to increase fees sharply, he said, adding, "Today, the whole Israeli economy is built on rapacious elites fleecing consumers."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44.....ork_times/

[O2]

this is the proven result of wingnutz privatizing govt assets to business cronies

[Fluffy]

You know what?

This is all bullshit.

Anyone who read about the demonstrations in Tel Aviv knows that the primary concern of the demonstrators was high rents in "hip" areas.

These were fucking hipster riots, driven by the fact that Israel's economy is actually doing pretty good, and rents are rising as a result.

I have disdain for all leftists, but the leftists bitching for rent control always get my particular contempt. Is there anyone lower? Sure, there are leftists who are much more dangerous and who do worse things, but is there anyone lower? I don't think so.

[O2]

so Daniel Doron, who directs the Israel Center for Social and Economic Progress, a pro-market research organization...is a hipster?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Fluffy]

No, this guy is probably just a typical think tank douchebag, eager to ascribe a recent mass event to widespread public indignation over issues of concern to him.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-0.....s=PM:WORLD

Housing. Prices.

[G. Gardner]

"this guy is probably just a typical think tank douchebag"

elitist!

[O2]

so the mass protest are about hipsters & "think tank doucebags"?

[Fluffy]

Yup.

Let's put it this way:

If you protest and demand rent control, you're leftist scum.

If you protest and demand rent control, with particular emphasis on the fact that it's too expensive to live in the cool part of the city where hipsters want to live, and you don't want to live somewhere else cheaper even when your whole fucking country is smaller than my commute, then you're hipster leftist scum.

[O2]

"What is keeping people on the streets is the question that if we are all having a hard time and we are all working and paying taxes, who is making the profits?" said Daphni Leef, the 25-year-old filmmaker who began this protest movement with a Facebook posting and remains at its center. "We know there are certain families that have a lot of money and a lot of influence and there is no transparency. People feel deceived."

Those families ? the Ofers, the Dankners, the Tshuvas, the Fishmans and others ? account for the 10 biggest business groups in the country and together control some 30 percent of the economy. They will doubtless be among the targets at another set of street demonstrations planned for Saturday night.

"It is becoming clearer to more and more people that this issue of concentration of wealth has become more important," said Einat Wilf, a legislator who submitted a bill last year aimed at tackling the issue. "As a result of the protests, there is much more political will to fight it than in the past."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44.....ork_times/

[Fluffy]

So you're asking me to believe that a 25 year old filmmaker and aficionado of Facebook is not a hipster?

You really, really picked the wrong spokesperson to oppose my thesis.

[Fluffy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphne_Leef

Nope, that picture doesn't fricking SHOUT, "I am the Israeli equivalent of a hipster doofus" or anything.

[O2]

dont forget to also blame "think tank douchebags"...and the knesset legislator...and Prof. Eugene Kandel, Mr. Netanyahu's chief economic adviser.

[Fluffy]

Reading over the housing plan Netanyahu came up with in response to this nonsense, there is obviously plenty of think tank douchebaggery going on.

Because we talk about Israel's Palestinian policy so much, we can often forget what reprehensible douchebags they are in other ways. Everything that it's proper to despise the French for, the Israelis have in spades.

[Pip]

Lotta fat on that this one.

[Fluffy]

And Daphni Leef started this protest specifically because she personally wanted to rent an apartment in the most desirable part of Tel Aviv and couldn't afford to.

She's basically a walking post card proving my point in this sub-thread.

Thanks for doing my link-finding for me.

[O2]

amazing how daphni can manipulate thinktanks, the knesset, and the PM's econ advisor who all say different than ur opinion.

[Fluffy]

So we have a protest movement led by someone who says up front that her primary motivation was the fact that she thought the rents were too high in central Tel Aviv.

And we have the Netanyahu government's policy response, which basically boils down to setting aside apartments in new construction to be rented or sold cheaply to people like the protest spokesman, with a particular emphasis on students.

And you offer this as a counterargument to my claim that the Israeli protests were driven by housing costs, and that the principle participants in the protest could colloquially be described using the H&R term of abuse "hipster"?

You're pretty stupid, but this is below even your pathetic usual level.

[O2]

i offer documented israeli opinions w citation to counter ur american opinion w/OUT any israeli cites. ur correct that im stupid to continue arguing cited facts against fluffy's interwebz screed

[Fluffy]

Your citations are absolutely irrelevant in the face of the documentary history of the event and the open statements of the instigator of the event.

It really means absolutely nothing if you find some member of the Knesset who pointed at a protest over housing prices and said, "This is secretly about the concentration of wealth!"

There are right now MPs in the UK assigning every possible motivation to the riots in the UK, usually in direct contradiction to one another.

I have no reason to believe that Einat Wilf's statement is anything but self-serving.

We have this undisputed timeline of events:

1. Daphni Leef moves out of her hipster apartment in Tel Aviv.

2. Daphni Leef can't find another suitably hip address for a rent she thinks is low enough.

3. Daphni Leef sets up a tent on the most expensive street in Tel Aviv protesting that she can't afford to live there.

4. Other assholes join Daphni Leef in her contemptible protest.

5. The Netanyahu government gets scared, and to placate the protestors offers a series of housing measures designed mainly to benefit urbanites and students.

That sequence of events supports no interpretation other than mine.

It doesn't matter if Ms. Leef has moved on to additional issues to try to continue to enjoy the heady tonic of being a mass movement leader for a while longer.

It doesn't matter if think tank douchebags have dashed to their keyboards to try to explain why their pet issues are secretly the important ones here.

It doesn't matter if some member of the Knesset has run to the press to claim that none of this would have happened if only people had taken seriously some failed bill of his from last year.

All these extras are just elements of a farce. The usual kind of farce that surrounds any large news event. The only core facts that matter are numbers 1-5 above.

[BakedPenguin]

Swedish economist - and socialist - Assar Lindbeck once said "...rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city ? except for bombing". This was in 1972. No one has an excuse to defend the idea today.

[Mr Whipple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg5SwyTvAHw

[Fatty Bolger]

failing state assets were privatized in the 1980s and '90s

Once the economy started to pick up in the late 1990s

The two being entirely unrelated, I'm sure.

[SugarFree]

Drunk man pees on 11-year-old girl on JetBlue flight

"I was drunk, and I did not realize I was pissing on her leg," the 6-foot-4, 195-pound Vietze said, according to law-enforcement sources.

-
Sounds like something a leg-pisser would say, IMO.

[R C Dean]

I did not realize I was pissing on her leg

What part of her did he think he was pissing on?

[Warty]

The article doesn't say if the little girl was on fire. We need all the facts before we can condemn this guy.

The girl's father caught Vietze midstream.
"I woke up to this man yelling and literally looking like he was about to punch this kid in the face," said the witness, who asked not to be identified.

Also, just what does it take to get punched in the face nowadays?

[R C Dean]

Why would a father punch his own kid in the face for getting pissed on?

[Ramsey]

I think the witness was talking about the very young pisser, not the even younger pissee

Hope that helps!

And I got to meet my daily quota of using pissee in a sentence.

[NeonCat]

As long as you're not pissy about it.

[Nipplemancer]

The article doesn't say if the little girl was on fire. We need all the facts before we can condemn this guy.
Thanks for making me spit coffee.

[Pip]

He admitted to having 8 drinks before boarding the plan in Portland. He is 18-years-old.

Now I don't think there should be an age limit for drinking, but under current law, unless he drank those 8 drinks at home with his parents (he didn't) he shouldn't have been drinking at all. And it's pretty clear he couldn't handle his booze.

Also, were I that girls dad, I'd have beaten the shit out of the fucker right on the plane, which given the guy's condition, would be pretty easy.

[Warty]

If pissing on a little girl in front of her dad doesn't get you punched, nothing exists that will get you punched.

[H man]

Give the father a break, he has cancer.

[PIRS]

Does this mean the TSA will start giving breathalyser tests before letting people board planes?

[SugarFree]

Bladder searches.

[PIRS]

Don't they do those already?

[TSA]

Depends.

[Lord Humungus]

I see what you did there.

[TSA]

Oh, you haven't seen anything yet.

[PIRS]

+5

[sarcasmic]

If they don't let drunk people onto the plane, who's going to fly it?

[Chupacabra]

Terrorists.

[Lord Obama]

ALL PASSENGERS are terrorists! TSA just checks to see which are carrying weapons.

[R Kelly]

I was framed!

[G. Gardner]

R. Kelly was on the flight?

[Lord Obama]

Sounds like something a leg-pisser would say, IMO.

Or:

"I didn't piss on her - it's raining."

[R C Dean]

"It was basically selling assets to cronies,"

Paging Mr. Coase! Mr. Coase, please pick up the nearest courtesy phone!

[Troy]

aw enforcement experts said the method of dealing with videotapes in police misconduct investigations has become increasingly challenging as video use becomes more commonplace.

Because now there is actually evidence that pigs are causing collateral damage. And if there is anything this fucking country hates to do, it is to smells it own shit. It is OK, police unions, the public will puss out.

[sarcasmic]

Like any jury with a sense of self preservation is going to come back with a guilty verdict against a cop.
Might as well sign your family's death warrant.

[wylie]

It's good to be in the mafia.

[dunphy]

here's reason cognitive dissonance in a nutshell

the "juries find them not guilty because they are AFRAID" meme.

really, it's about the stupidest thing i've ever read here.

but it's the new meme because it allows reasonoids to ignore that, outside their rarefied environment, MOST people respect and trust cops in general

they can;'t grok that, so now it's "the juries are AFRAID"

derp derp derp

[Pip]

Oh just shut the fuck up.

[dunphy]

yea, facts are disturbing aren't they

post trial jury interviews support this theory?

nope

polling data ANONYMOUS , which shows year after year the public has immense support and respect for cops support this reason-lie-meme?

nope

but you are exactly the same as a creationist. when facts interfere with your metanarrative, make up some grand unifying yea but that is by its nature able to fill the gaps and is essentially irrefutable, because it's based on little green men

[sarcasmic]

Do you really think someone is going to say "I voted to acquit because we live in a police state, and that I would be afraid that the next time I got pulled over would be my last."?

[dunphy]

at least anonymously, YES

furthermore, again the polling data, which is actual data, not speculation, does not support this lie

face it. most of the public likes, respects and trusts police

that's not opinion. it's fact, verified year after year by poll after poll

the world is not reason.com. outside this rarefied environment, MOST people trust and like cops

hth

[sarcasmic]

most of the public likes, respects and trusts police

Most of the public has never had the pleasure of listening to you guys trade tips on choke holds or complain that you've never killed anyone.
Most of the public has not been on the receiving end of a club wielded by a government enforcer who has had a bad day.
Most of the public has never gone to court and watched in complete shock as a policeman takes the stand and proceeds to lie to the judge.

Most of the public trusts the police out of faith and ignorance, not knowledge and experience.

[Dude]

Do you really think someone is going to say "I voted to acquit because we live in a police state, and that I would be afraid that the next time I got pulled over would be my last."?

So you're admitting that your statement above is totally unfalsifiable. Nothing could convince you that the acquittal was correct.

[Tulpa]

Oops, Dude was me.

[dunphy]

exactly. that's why i compare it to creationism

it's like the creationists who claim god created the fossil record (dinosaurs, etc.) to test us/test our faith

it's an unfalsifiable faith based argument

sure he COULD have. it just fails occam's razor and anything else

it's also ironic that one reason-meme is that "juries find for cops so much because the media fawns over them and creates a false impression of their infallibility" (which is laughable to the extreme) and the other is that "juries find for cops because they are scared that black helicopters will come after them if they dare to find a cop guilty"

there are a myriad of absurdities in these positions. among them, there is also the reality that juries do find cops guilty of shit. just not as often as anti-cop bigots would like

[sarcasmic]

there is also the reality that juries do find cops guilty of shit

I've never seen it.

[dunphy]

yawn, BART shooting, Amadou Diallo case, etc. etc.

[sarcasmic]

Nothing could convince you that the acquittal was correct.

Nothing could convince me that six large armed men were justified in beating a skinny solitary unarmed man to death.
No.

[CaptainSmartass]

I went jury selection in Collin County, Texas, this last Monday (I wasn't picked because my number was too high). One of the other panelists (who also didn't make the cut due to her number being too high) said flat out during voir dire that she would believe anything a cop said in court because she herself is a retired cop.

I wish I could've served on that jury with her. It would've given me the perfect opportunity to rail against the thick blue line (and openly question her intelligence and commitment to justice).

But hey, once a pig, always a pig.

[dunphy]

completely nonresponsive to the issue

sure, there are people like that. there are also people (seen here often) that would reflexively not believe, or at least strongly suspect anything a cop says.

great.

but in the aggregate most people respect and trust cops

[sarcasmic]

but in the aggregate most people respect and trust cops

Only because they don't know any better.

[dunphy]

right. the other side of the reason-meme

note how they are mutually exclusive

1) people love and respect cops because they are ignorant -that's why the courts rule as they do
2) people hate and distrust cops and thus find them not guilty etc. because they are afraid of retaliation

only the faith-based creationist reasonoids could move so freely between two contradictory memes

it really is an experiment in bigotry and cognitive dissonance. heck, it's actually very consistent with some of the most silly racists, conspiracy nuts etc. in the way they will make ever complex concentric rings of fantasy (see: copernican revolution) to continue to support their false premise

[sarcasmic]

Where's the contradiction?
Most people love and respect the cops because they are ignorant.
The ones who know better fear them.

[sarcasmic]

Sorry dunph, but my opinion of cops is based upon personal experience.
It is based upon my eyes, ears, and pain receptors.

People who have a high opinion of the police have never been in need of or on the receiving end of their services, or never watched dumbfounded as they string along a line of complete and utter bullshit to a judge.

Frankly I couldn't give a shit what other people think.

[dunphy]

false. my opinion of police was largely informed by needing their services and being treated fairly and respecfully.

again... you have no idea what you are talking about

heck, i was even proned out at gunpoint by them...

you are engaging in a typical liberal tactic- those who disagree with you are just ignorant. if they had YOUR insight and experience, they would believe as you do.

it's an incredibly elitist dismissive attitude. it's also demonstrably false.

[sarcasmic]

if they had YOUR insight and experience, they would believe as you do.

Yeah, they probably would. I believed the myth that cops are there to serve and protect.
Then I had the experiences that I have had, any all faith in the police was shattered.

you are engaging in a typical liberal tactic- those who disagree with you are just ignorant.

As you dismiss me for being ignorant. Typical.

[dunphy]

no, i didn't say you were ignorant.

i said you were engaging in a fallacy

and again, my experience with cops led me to the exact oppposite conclusion yours did.

so, clearly your claim that if only people had interaction with cops, they would believe as you do was FALSE.

note, i didn't claim the contrary to your claim

hth

[sarcasmic]

I've overheard enough conversations between cops who didn't think a civilian was listening to be consider them to be sociopathic motherfuckers.
Trading tips on how to inflict the most pain when putting someone in a hold, lamenting about never having a chance to kill someone, bragging about beating the shit out of people, I'm seriously in fear when I have to deal with cops.
As far as I'm concerned I'm dealing with an animal that is looking hard for any excuse to go medieval on my ass.
They think it is respect, but it's not.
It's fear.

And if I was on a jury there's no way I would vote to convict one of these animals, for fear that the rest of the pack would descend on me at some point when there was no camera to record it.

[dunphy]

rubbish. you have opinion. i have fact.

i'll stick with facts, thx

hth

(you, like a creationist, do not).

[sarcasmic]

It is a fact that I have overheard conversations not meant for general consumption.
It is a fact that I have watched cops lie in court.
It is a fact that I have reported crimes and been given a "Who are you and why should I care".
It is a fact that I have been harassed and intimidated by police for no good reason.

That may be rubbish to you, but it has left me with an overall low opinion of police.

[Hand Banana]

And I suppose letting the murdering pig fuckers view the tape so they can "refresh" their memories before writing their incident reports is OK because it follow UOF procedure, right Dunphy? There is absolutely no reason to think it was so the thug fuckers could get their stories straight, right? Fuck you you piece of shit.

[dunphy]

smooches!

[Hand Banana]

What? No response about how the procedure was followed and I don't know enough about department policy to know what I am talking about? Smooch my cornhole you tax feeding thug.

[dunphy]

because unlike you, i don't argue from ignorance.

i don't know if procedure was followed, so i'm not commenting on it.

that's the difference between us

of course it would be a reasonable assumption on my part you are ignorant of the policy. heck, it's reasonable to assume you are ignorant about almost anything.

that's a high probability bet

but hardly a certainty

[Hand Banana]

Your right, I don't know what the policy/procedure is. But I am pretty sure that letting the witnesses view a video before giving a statement is a fucking no-no. Doubly so for the murdering assholes in state-issued clown suits Since all you can testify to is your dept...would they let you view a video of your UOF before you wrote up your incident report? And I comment on the appearance of the situation. It sure as HELL looks like the little piggies all gettin the story right. It ain't what you know, it's what you can prove.
Suck and die in fire.

[dunphy]

seriously... lay off the caffeine.

and yes, i agree that letting the cops watch the video(s) was improper. probably against policy, if they were encompassing enough to have such a policy

[Hand Banana]

It ain't caffeine, it's outrage.
Suck it and die in a fire.

[cynical]

Policy? That sounds like it runs a good chance of running afoul of the law (witness tampering or some such statute), which trumps policy at any rate.

[Brett L]

The $15B box of girl scout cookies.

"When it comes to next-gen super materials, graphene is incredible stuff ? it can be six times lighter than steel, two times harder, and 10 times stronger in terms of tensile strength ? and now researchers at Rice University have figured out a way to literally bake it from a box of Girl Scout cookies. A group of graduate students led by chemist James Tour recently teamed up with a Houston Girl Scout troop 25080 to perform the feat using a single box of Trefoil cookies ? which could potentially yield $15 billion dollars worth of graphene"

[Fluffy]

Right, but this achievement is worthless unless it creates lots of jobz.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Not the Trefoils! Burn as many Samoas as you like, but leave the Trefoils alone!

[Clich? Bandit]

You will burn in hell for such blaspheme. Cthulu has been summoned.

[Trespassers W]

Hyperbolically speaking, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard here.

[CaptainSmartass]

Thank Loki they aren't using Thin Mints. Those things are hard enough to get as it is.

[Nipplemancer]

"The medical leave bars the city from firing Sellers, whose compensation package totals $228,576 with benefits."
I'm gonna guess this is why he took the medical leave.

[Fist of Etiquette]

And he's just sick about it.

[Matt Damon]

Hey, can we make today Paul Krugman Day?

[Lord Humungus]

no.

[Pip]

The middle class 'rioters' revealed: The millionaire's daughter, the aspiring musician and the organic chef all in the dock

Poverty, social exclusion, poor education - these are just some of the theories put forward to explain the recent rioting.
Yet shockingly, among those in the dock accused of looting are a millionaire's grammar school daughter, a ballet student and an organic chef.

A law student, university graduate, a musician and an opera steward also said to have taken part.

They are just some of the youngsters from comfortable middle-class backgrounds who have been charged with criminality.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....z1Up411jbw

[Translucent Chum]

What the hell is Jobseekers Allowance?

[JD the elder]

AFAICT, Jobseekers Allowance is like unemployment payments here in the US. You look for work (or claim that you're doing so), meet with a counsellor every two weeks, and they pay you. Not a lot of cash, but apparently combined with all the other benefits you can be receiving at the same time, it's not bad. Also it apparently never runs out, unlike unemployment here in the States. And while it sounds reasonable enough in theory, apparently in practice it often boils down to "go to an office and sign your name once every two weeks, get cash".

There's a mention of it here: http://winstonsmith33.blogspot.....eness.html
That whole blog is worth reading, actually; pretty horrifying stuff.

[Gilbert Gottfried]

AFAICT! AFAICT!

[BakedPenguin]

I know a guy with an wife who's a UK citizen. They live here in the US, but have a council flat, which they rent out. They also get payments for their kid, who is a dual UK / US citizen.

Unbelievable.

[CaptainSmartass]

Wait, you can sublet government housing the UK? Hmm, wonder what it takes to get dual citizenship (and free money!)

[Fluffy]

It should have been clear to anyone not wedded to the Guardian's fairy tale narrative of "the hopelessness of youth" that these riots were about sheer Klingonesque joy in the release from law and conventional obligations.

These kids did what they did because it was fun and because it was transgressive. Like knocking over mailboxes or fucking in public.

[R C Dean]

These kids did what they did because it was fun and because it was transgressive.

And, let's not forget, they didn't see anyone who could stop them, thanks to the generations-long neutering of the British people by their Total State.

[H man]

It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it.

Gen. Robert E. Lee

Rioting on the other hand is just good clean fun.

[Ska]

So you never met a middle class/upper-middle class/upper class teen that went out of their way to get more fucked up and do more fucked up shit than anyone else, merely because the opposite is expected of them? I don't think it's such a strange thesis.

[H man]

I don't think it's a strange thesis either. Trying and failing to make funny.

[Ska]

My bad, comment thread sarcasm is tough sometimes.

[PIRS]

"My bad, comment thread sarcasm is tough sometimes."

With people like Tony and Max running around I agree. It is hard to tell when they are being serious.

[dunphy]

much like the WTO riot. i was on the line during those. a very substantial portion of the rioters there (vs. protesters) were there because it was an opp to break shit

they said so themselves.

i'll never forget the three morons standing right in front of me. one asked the other "what's WTO?" the other said he didn't know, but THIS (the riot) was cool as hell

shit like that

[Pip]

"much like the WTO riot. i was on the line during those. a very substantial portion of the rioters there (vs. protesters) were there because it was an opp to break shit"

And the whole time, the only thing that kept me going, was the desire to get back home to my wife, Morgan Fairchild.

[dunphy]

yea, pip. us seattle area cops weren't on the line at WTO (and n30, etc.)

nope.despite the fact that literally dozens of agencies mobilized throughout the region, i MUST be making it up

because you've given up even trying to construct rational arguments.

instead, you just claim "it's a lie derp derp derp"

devolving further into your creationist impression

oh btw... smooches, pip!

and yer mama has yer hot pockets ready as soon as she wipes yer ass

[Hand Banana]

It's just that he hates you and all your kind, like any rational being. Please die in fire. I love me some roast pork.

[dunphy]

fortunately, most americans like and respect cops

i can live with the pips in this world

[Hand Banana]

You guys are trying as hard as you can to change that. The change IS coming. It already has in most major cities. Good luck with that professionalism.

[dunphy]

ok, provide evidence it has "in most major cities"

it's rubbish you spout. as usual.

histrionic bigoted rubbish. and when i call you on it, you will not produce evidence.

but i'll stand by for it:

[Hand Banana]

Come to Philly and observe the way most of the people react to cops. Especially the majority of black residents. That ain't respect they are showing, it is fear and loathing. I'm pretty sure the folks in Chicago, NY and LA don't like the PoPo either. And again, please die in a fire you tax-feeding, jack-booted thug.

[dunphy]

again, that's not evidence.

provide evidence for your claim ...

recall "it already has in MOST major cities" (emphasis mine)

[dunphy]

also, on the racial angle. the vast majority of black residents also support the democratic party.

does that mean they are correct in their assessment that the democratic party is the best party, or even the best party for their demographic?

[Hand Banana]

I have no "studies" just my personal experience. When little old white ladies like my mom, and every other person I know in the city, black and white, hates and fears the cops, that is a bad sign for the tax-feeding scum.

[Hand Banana]

Oh, and Suck it and die in a fire.

[dunphy]

which (1) says nothing about "most" cities as you claim

and

(2) says more about your narrow circle of acquaintances than anything

see pauline kael's famous query about how nixon could have won, after all everybody SHE knew hated him

hth

[Most Americans]

fortunately, most americans like and respect cops

You say this so many times it's sounding like that was the main reason you decided to become a cop - for the like and respect. Yes, we know cop groupies exist, they are the counter balance to the cop haters.

But most Americans actually try to avoid the police as much as possible.

[dunphy]

no, again you are ignoring the issue

poll after poll (and i have cited them) shows that cops repeatedly rank very high in public respect, etc.

it's not a matter of groupies. it's a matter of the majority of americans having an opinion that you can't stand, and thus try to discredit with astoundingly stupid theories like "juries find cops not guilty because they are afraid of them"

same speculative hogwash being contrary to established facts.

that's the sad thing. the facts are there. you don't like them. fair enuf. but engaging cognitive dissonance overdrive to try to 'splain around them is sad and pathetic

[Pip]

No, I honestly believe you are a compulsive liar. You've told us you've been a fireman, a cop, an EMT, and about a million other pieces of bullshit. Now go gack home to your wife, Morgan Fairchild.

[Pip]

No matter the topic, it's never "I knew this guy or my brother-in-law told me..."

It's always, "Well when I did this and when I did that...and I was at the WTC, and when I was working with Alan Dershowitz..."

Well I say cop or no cop, you are a god damned liar.

[dunphy]

I never said i worked with dershowitz i said i knew him. he's wicked smaht

mebbe if you didn't have such a sad life in yer mama's basement, you might meet some people too. otoh, with your "tuesday is shower day principle" mebbe they might be repulsed

for very loose definition of mebbe

[dunphy]

oh also, i was not at the WTC.

here : compare and contrast

WTO and WTC

hth

[Most Americans]

It's always, "Well when I did this and when I did that...and I was at the WTC, and when I was working with Alan Dershowitz..."

Works for Joe Theisman (or however his name is spelled/pronounced this week).

[dunphy]

it's a lie. never said i was at WTC never said i worked with dershowitz

pip lies repeatedly. he claims i do, but i have facts he does.

iow, show me where i said i was at WTC

show me where i said i worked with dershowitz

neither is true

he's a liar

hth

[dunphy]

pip,some agencies REQUIRE all 3 fwiw.

i was a cop in MA. we got extra pay for being an EMT btw.

but yes, and i was also a lifeguard in college

suck it!

oh, and btw... smooches

[Tulpa]

You've told us you've been a fireman, a cop, an EMT, and about a million other pieces of bullshit.

Uh, dude, I know for a fact that many city govts require their firefighters to cross-train as EMTs to save money (as opposed to hiring more people who have to be on-call 24/7). Wouldn't be surprised if they make cops cross-train too.

[dunphy]

in MA, many agencies gave a nice pay incentive to be an EMT

i come from a rescue background - i started as a lifeguard, then moved on to the firefighter/cop thang.

it's really not that unusual at all.

some agencies have cops cross trained as fire and cops btw. as i said. not at all uncommon.

and you are right about EMT's. in many states, some agencies require it. for example, some state troopers require it iirc since they so often work in isolated settings, etc.

pip is just a fat mama's boy in his mama's basement. the idea that anybody has done anything beyond spoutin' on the internet about the evulness of cops is inconceivable to him

[Pip]

"oh btw... smooches, pip!

and yer mama has yer hot pockets ready as soon as she wipes yer ass"

Fuck off, dog cunt.

[dunphy]

smooches little boy!

[cynical]

Dammit people, Lord of the Flies was a warning, not an instruction manual!

[Fist of Etiquette]

U.S. Special Forces trained Mexican troops in Colorado.

Trained in what? Lawn care while under sniper fire? Am I right, fellow stereotypists?

Extreme right.

[G. Gardner]

Cutting grass with drones

[T]

Cutting daisies, probably.

[Rich]

"The country's bankrupt and nobody wanted to admit it. And when you're bankrupt, you can't keep spending." ? Rep. Ron Paul (Texas)

Under no definition is the United States "bankrupt." The nation has a large debt as a percentage of its economy, and that is an issue of concern. But it is able to pay its debts and its bonds are still regarded as the gold standard

Perhaps Rep. Paul meant *morally* bankrupt.

"US bonds are regarded as the gold standard." Well said.

[PIRS]

"But it is able to pay its debts and its bonds are still regarded as the gold standard"

By the very naive. They may be somewhat "stable" when compared to some other countries but I wouldn't trust the federal government with my money any farther than I could throw it.

[NeonCat]

And if it were gold you could throw it further because paper just sort of goes nowhere, just flutters down.

[Brett L]

If by "gold standard" they mean least worst option in sovereign debt, then yes. Also, the irony of a person making a gold standard analogy who no doubt opposes the gold standard is... worth its weight in gold?

[PIRS]

+20

[Rich]

I should have said

wingdings Well said. /wingdings

[Fluffy]

You're "bankrupt" if you have been legally declared insolvent.

Insolvent is defined as:

a. Unable to meet debts or discharge liabilities; bankrupt.
b. Insufficient to meet all debts, as an estate or fund.

The US is not currently able to meet its debts or discharge its liabilities.

For the moment, it is able to obtain new credit in order to roll over and extend the old.

But that is true of small-scale debtors as well; they can often continue to obtain new credit and play the string out a little longer even after the point of true insolvency is reached. Or a bank that has become insolvent can often continue to operate until there's a run. That doesn't make them any less insolvent.

Rep. Paul probably should have said "insolvent" instead of "bankrupt", but non-lawyers will often use these two words as though they were exact synonyms.

[PIRS]

+50

[juris imprudent]

I am beginning to suspect there is serious inflation in those '+'s. Obviously they need to be backed by gold.

[R C Dean]

The US is not currently able to meet its debts or discharge its liabilities.

True. Not without printing the money to pay them.

Of course, if you pay off a debt at its face value, with currency worth half what it was worth when the debt was incurred, most people would regard that as a default.

[Tulpa]

How would that be default? You satisfied the terms of the debt agreement.

[Invisible Finger]

I understand RC's point but this is one of the few times I'll back up Tulpa - the money-printing has been a given on govt debt for at least 80+ years. This type of payment is 100% expected so it seems like it is the agreed-to method of payment and therefore not a default.

[P Brooks]

Hamilton said there was no hidden agenda in allowing the officers to see what the video showed.

No kidding.

[Old Mexican]

Under no definition is the United States "bankrupt."

Categorically? Absolutely? No doubt? Is the person speaking ex cathedra?

The nation has a large debt as a percentage of its economy, and that is an issue of concern. But it is able to pay its debts and its bonds are still regarded as the gold standard in the financial markets[...]

Earth to WaPo idiot: The U.S. is printing money to pay her debts - THAT'S A DEFAULT in economic terms.

When a person maxes out the credit cards and uses another one to pay the others, that person IS BROKE.

which is why investors have flocked to buy U.S. Treasuries during this period of market turmoil.

So basically the US can pay her debts because enough suckers buy our worthless paper. Wow.

And that's fact-checking???

[Ramsey]

Hey, that's the way the system is set up. If constant generation of debt is the underpinning of the economy, don't be surprised when debt is generated. Is it right? No, but it is what we have got.

[O2]

so a default is printing money?

[Old Mexican]

Re: Double asshole,

so a default is printing money?

No, you backward dimwit. Printing dollars to pay your debt in dollars is defaulting.

[O2]

citation?

[Restoras]

You have got to be kidding.

[Clich? Bandit]

Damn, I wish it was thursday again.

[Pip]

No. Fucking. Shit, CB.

[Tulpa]

You have got to be kidding.

I hope you meant that as a reply to OM.

[Old Mexican]

Re: O2,

citation?

What do you mean "citation", you nincompoop? It's BASIC ECONOMICS: I you receive 100 gold coins as a loan, and you return 110 DEBASED coins that only contain 90% of the gold you received originally, are you going to argue that you're NOT defaulting on your debt?

And why am I arguing with a moron who can't fancy for himself a better nick than "O2"? FUCK YOU!!!

[G Gardner]

But we raised the debt limit. So by definition, we're not bankrupt.

[Tulpa]

So by your definition I actually defaulted on my student loans, since I repaid them with inflated dollars compared to when I originated the loan.

Sheesh. If you satisfy the terms of the debt agreement it ain't default, even if the lender effectively gets hosed. Caveat creditor.

[tkwelge]

I think that the point is because the US CONTROLS it's money supply, it counts as a default. You are not responsible for the depreciation of your dollars when you pay back your loans, but the US government and the federal reserve are 100% responsible for the depreciation of the dollars that they are using to pay back the debt. Other countries accept this money due to a couple of reasons that may go away in the near future. For decades, the US was the country with world reserve currency. It was the only high volume currency with a high value, and it was legally the base of the monetary system well after ww2. Now, the US dollar is losing any and all respect, and once the balance of monetary power shifts to other nations, and they stop accepting dollars as valuable, any attempt to print the debt away will lead to hyperinflation.

[Tulpa]

Printing dollars to pay your debt in dollars is defaulting.

No, it isn't. If a creditor is stupid enough to require repayment in a form of currency that you can create for free, that's their problem.

[Invisible Finger]

While 100% true, the problem is that the creditor eventually figures this out so the borrower has to continually find a new batch of suckers. This is why we have compulsory education.

[Tulpa]

I should state that I don't think that monetizing the debt is a viable solution to our problems, both for the reason you describe and because of the bad effects an inflated currency would have on the nation in general. So I'm not really in OO's camp, other than on the question of whether monetization = default.

[Invisible Finger]

The only reason there's bad effects on inflated currency is because people have some misplaced trust in the issuer of the currency. It was no different with Treasury Notes than with Federal Reserve Notes.

By the way, apropos of nothing Tulpa wrote, the country has been operating without an actual budget for 850 days; we've been operating on Continuing Resolutions - completely ignored during the coverage of the Debt Ceiling. THAT is the politics that causes a debt rating downgrade.

[Tulpa]

Unfortunately, legal tender laws require you to accept dollars.

[H man]

The history of the present [government] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For transporting us [and others] beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
Taking our land and giving it to private interests
Forcing us into commerce against our wishes
Preventing the people from using the illumination of their choosing in their own home.
Prevents the recording of public actions of public officials
Declares secret without oversight, information of import to the citizenry
Restricts or bans the growing of plants for food and medicine.
Subjects travelers on private transport to unreasonable, invasive and humiliating searches.
Taxes the citizens of the States, and then requires the States to pass Laws as condition for the return of the funds

Illegitimately imposes upon personal arms the police power of the state

Incurs debt that the citizenry is unable to repay

Debauches the currency on a daily basis

Orders U.S. Military Forces into offensive actions without the approval of Congress.

Institutes so many regulations and laws that it is impossible for a mortal to live a day without violating at least one if not a multiple of them.

Uses the unlawful ownership of the airways to restrict speech.

Takes the property of those not convicted but merely suspected of a crime.

Does not protect the U.S. Constitution but at every turn tries to circumvent it.

[H man]

Meant for Friday funnies.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I'm not sure they'll be able to fit that all in one panel.

[H man]

No you couldn't, I just wanted to include it for completeness.

[sasob]

Nice summation, H man.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Hamilton took control of the 144-officer department Wednesday when Chief Michael Sellers took a 30-day medical leave.

Fullerton Police is staffed with a gross of officers? How the eff big is Fullerton? For a town labeled as "sleepy" they sure have a lot of fuzz.

[Aqua Buddha]

gross of officers

I say we make that the official term, like a flock of geese.

[Brett L]

You sure you don't want to use a murder of officers?

[Crows]

Hey, that's our description. Come up with something else, mammal.

[Clich? Bandit]

I believe that yhe word you are looking for is "sounder", of course "drove", "litter", "herd", and "farrow" (for the younguns) are all equally legitimate.

[P Brooks]

"I think we'll have the whole picture here in a short time, and we're moving toward a just and fair result," said Rackauckas.

Just waiting for the final wording on the commendations.

[GILMORE]

Here's a Reason morning-link

Postal Service Seeks Exit From Union Deal to Prune 220,000 Jobs

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/.....-jobs.html

And they thought Wisonsin was teh evil for wanting to *renegotiate* union contracts. Now its the epitome of money-wasting public service institutions. Who, oh who will stand up for the rights of Postal Workers to bleed the public dry?

What I think is most ridiculous about this kind of story (and everything having to do with the debt debate) is the attitude of all officials who characterize the situation as an 'unforseen crisis' brought about by the unprecidented economic instability.

Like you *didn't see this shit coming years ago*? Didn't they last bring this up in 2009 and (naturally) kick the can down the road back then?

If you need a shining example of everything wrong about the way governments run things, they are the freaking poster child.

[JD the elder]

And the USPS needs Congressional approval to do this stuff. But they're an independent agency, definitely not just a branch of the Federal government, no sirree.

[wylie]

It's the worst of both worlds. Supposed to be independent and selfsupporting, while operating with rules from the feds that make the 1st part impossible.

[Old Mexican]

U.S. Special Forces trained Mexican troops in Colorado.

The newly trained soldiers will soon be posting their resumes for the different cartels to bid for their services.

[Tim]

Bet they got the in state tuition rate.

[P Brooks]

Suspicions were raised.

Orders were issued.

Altercations occurred.

Submission was effected.

Officer safety was maintained.

[Warty]

For no particular reason, nunchuck fight.

[Fist of Etiquette]

He's going to have to pay for those windows.

[Warty]

The movie's pretty cool, actually. It's a South Korean high school angst movie with that nunchuck fight thrown in.

[Fist of Etiquette]

So, essentially, was Pretty in Pink.

[Warty]

It is damning indeed that someone passionately staking out an unpopular position against foreign wars is all but laughed at for doing so, whereas the moderators react to all manner of political theater with straight faces. It's almost as if the implications of Paul's critique is too awful for Wallace and Baier to take seriously, so they dismiss it as a mental defense mechanism. No wonder we keep entering wars.

Good thing I didn't watch it, or I probably would have ragebroken a whole lot of shit.

[Tim]

You got that right.

[John Hoover]

Of course, the one voice that needed to be heard last night wasn't, Gov. Gary Johnson. Despite multiple polls showing him meeting the debate "requirements" he was excluded by Fox News because he doesn't fit within the narrative they are trying to maintain.

[juris imprudent]

No shit. Bachmann, Santorum, Gingrich - these are viable candidates, but not Johnson.

That definition of viability would completely outlaw abortion.

[P Brooks]

if you pay off a debt at its face value, with currency worth half what it was worth when the debt was incurred, most people would regard that as a default.

I would rather think of it as fraud.

[R C Dean]

Let's compromise (which is the cause of, and solution to, all of the world's problems):

Defrault.

[Tulpa]

You guys are even worse with changing definitions midstream than liberals.

[Tulpa]

Fraud requires some misrepresentation of an item or service that is being exchanged. What precisely is being misrepresented in this case?

[Auric Demonocles]

Let's say I promise to give you 5 pounds of gold in 30 years.

Now let's say 2041 rolls around and I tell you that I've redefined a 'pound' to mean '1 milligram'. Furthermore, I've decided that a 'year' is actually a 'Jovian year', so I'll get back to you in 2365. Would you feel like I was ripping you off?

[RandomGermanDude]

Everybody's favourite finance-guru George Soros is blaming chancellor Merkel (link in German) for the euro-crisis. Apparently she was too reluctant to bail out Greece early.

I mean it's so obvious. Don't blame completely fucked up economies and gigantic debt. Blame those with comparably strong economies who are not enthusiastic to shovel their money into an endless pit. He's such a bright thinker. Is he friends with that cat-loving economist?

[Pip]

They're freinds with benefits.

[Evan from Evansville]

I was hoping to get some advice from the sizable gun crowd here.

Ever since I have become of age, I have been interested in purchasing a firearm. Although I live in a safe neighborhood, I want to buy one for defense/security, and also the obligatory zombie/militant uprising that I'm sure will happen in my lifetime. I also feel that I have to turn in my decoder ring if I don't.

I've fired shotguns, rifles, pistols, an AK, and even a fucking cannon (although I was much younger then), so although I've never owned a gun, I'm not clueless either.

After doing a bit of pre-lim research, I was thinking about getting a basic 20 gauge shotgun.

ANY thoughts/comments/sultry asides are welcome. Brands, expected prices, tips and whatever---drop some knowledge.

Obliged.

[Clich? Bandit]

you obviously either missed the previous thread from several days ago OR you are a memeber of a "sounder" that is trying to get us to say something...while I aint all conspiracy yet, let me help you with a google search of reason's site.
here

[Art-P.O.G.]

Put a laser sight on it. 'Cuz a laser sight on a shotgun is badass.

[Clich? Bandit]

Art, good to see you, where u been these last 12 months? I havent seen you comment here until recently?

[Art-P.O.G.]

Operation Nude-on.

It's good to be back and see veryone!

[mad libertarian guy]

20 gauge is the WRONG WAY TO GO FOR HOME/ZOMBIE DEFENSE PURPOSES.

They're made to kill doves, not humans. Hell, I wouldn't even use a 20 gauge to kill a turkey.

If you're looking for an all-purpose gun to defend against looters during the revolution who will surely try and rob your shit, an AR-15 is the way to go.

[dunphy]

zombies aren't humans. that's why you can abort them "on demand"

[Art-P.O.G.]

OK, so, 12-guage with all sorts of ridiculous sights. May want to go with a scope, too.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Of course, if the future is zombie-filled or post-apocalyptic, you will also need a killdozer.

[P Brooks]

Everybody's favourite finance-guru George Soros is blaming chancellor Merkel (link in German) for the euro-crisis.

ANTS UNFAIR TO GRASSHOPPERS!

[P Brooks]

Why 20 instead of 12, Evan?

[Art-P.O.G.]

In addition to a laser sight, may I also recommend a bayonet and a flashlight for your shotgun? The flashlight may be attached with duct tape.

[Pip]

"The flashlight may be attached with duct tape."

Which direction should it face?

[Moe19]

I'd put the sticky side down.

[P Brooks]

may I also recommend a bayonet

Trench Gun!

[Art-P.O.G.]

I'd think the Vikings would approve.

[LibertyMark]

Minor correction: The debate did not occur at the "Iowa Fair Grounds". It occurred at the campus of Iowa State University, which happens to be my alma mater

[SFC B]

Showcasing how little liberals think about the Constitution, Garrett Epps over at the Atlantic endorses doing away with the Electoral College.

[hmm]

# U.S. Special Forces trained Mexican troops in Colorado.

SOA now WHISC, nothing new.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Sons of Anarchy now what?

[hmm]

School of the Americas, now Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation.

The first name sounded too dictatory given the totally awesome scumbag killers the school was training and producing. So they militaried it up with a more appropriate bullshit acronym. WHINSEC doesn't sound as scary...