The Federal Government Wants You to Know That Your Pizza Contains Between 1,840 to 3,740 Calories. You're Welcome.


health food

In its ongoing campaign to make sure Americans know that fast food is bad for them, the federal government snuck a provision into ObamaCare that mandates shoehorning nutritional information onto menu boards. Now restaurants are struggling to comply with the law—and may wind up confusing customers rather than informing them. From today's Washington Examiner:

Section 4205 of the national health care law, "Nutritional Labeling of Standard Menu Items at Chain Restaurants," caused little stir when Obamacare passed last year.

(Got plenty of coverage here at Reason!)

The law specifies that the number of calories in a food product must be printed directly next to the item on the menu, which is particularly difficult for fast-food restaurants that post their products on large, already crowded signs rather than standard paper menus….

In Domino's case, the only way it can fit calorie information on its menu signs is to provide broad ranges. For instance, a large "Feast" pizza could range from 1,840 to 3,740 calories, because there are four different crust types and six different varieties.

But on the current website, a customer could get much more specific. As in—a slice of a large deep dish "ExtravaganZZa Feast" pizza contains 420 calories (and there are eight slices in a large pie).

Domino's says compliance will cost the chain $5 million, the schizophrenic burger chain Hardees/Carl's Jr. pins their costs at $1.5 million.

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  1. Domino's says compliance will cost the chain $5 million, the schizophrenic burger chain Hardees/Carl's Jr. pins their costs at $1.5 million.

    Which is costs they will have to pass on to their customers, making fast food more expensive. A double win for Nanny Staters!

    1. what's a few broken windows?

    2. Supply and and demand says they can't increase prices just because they want to. What they'll do is account for the costs by hiring a temp to print up the new calorie info and lay off a few full-timers to pay for the temp.

      1. that temp is a job created!

      2. additional costs shift the supply curve. At least part of the cost will get passed on to customers.

    3. STIMULUS!!!!!!!

    4. Obama is clearly in the pocket of Big Plastic Menuboard

      1. Secret ties to the sign industry . . . nice.

        Won't more plastic signs damage the environment?

    5. Another pointless pizza pissing match ahead, wherein libertarians prove their superiority and edginess by boldly trashing Domino's.

  2. If only they could get Domino's to stop calling their crap "pizza". Has anyone tried their "new recipe" that they worked so hard to promote as not being horrific?

    And this labeling shit isn't about health. It's about control.

    1. Why would you even...? Dominoes...? Are you serious?

      1. I didn't say I would try it. I just wanted to know if the...less discriminating...pizza eater, such as ProL or other pizza heathens, had tried it and if their claims of it being less awful were correct.

        You could offer to ban Michael Bay from making movies if I just ate a Domino's pizza, and I would probably refuse.

        1. I believe the technical term for what Episiarch is attempting to do is backpizzaing.

          1. You would know.

            1. I can't believe you ate Domino's, what with all of your food snobbery talk hereabouts. Really, I bet there are two frozen pizzas in your toaster right now.

              1. Hmm, I'm usually ok with Domino's. It's still a step up from Fresheta's or Digornio's.

                And WAY better that Little Ceasers or Pizza hut.

                Sometimes you just don't have that many choices.

              2. Your beliefs and reality are not good friends, ProL, as clearly evidenced by your continuing hallucinations that deep dish is pizza. Maybe you should try taking an anti-psychotic.

                1. Oh, I see. You have one of those four-slot toasters. Nice try, but I see through your evasive words.

            2. Hey, has anybody ever tried that "thick" style pizza? I hear that it's pretty good, way better than that thin crap they serve at the bowling alley.

              1. Them's fightin' words boy.

                1. The truth often is.

                  1. The truth:


                    I love that site btw.

                    1. Yum. Who made that?

                    2. You're momma made it for me after I threw out the deep dish she brought me.

                    3. You eat kraut pizza?

        2. I eat Dominos all the time.

          1. No one expected anything else from you, hater.

            1. The only thing really missing from Dominos is the ability to argue how my independent pizza joint is clearly and objectively better than your independent pizza joint.

          2. Me too, new shit is delicious.

        3. Yes, the new Domino's pizza is actually better than the old stuff. I don't want to say anything more than that, as further comments may be construed as approval, and then I think I'd get yelled at.

          1. For libertarians, we sure are intolerant, aren't we?

            1. As long as it isn't the State (or its lackeys) telling us to hate, yes, because fuck those guys.

            2. What's this "We" stuff? FUCK OFF, SLAVER!

              1. We were using the royal we.

          2. You like Domino's?!? What the fuck is wrong with you?

            1. I have to say that I find all of this love for Domino's in this thread most distressing. It's like coming here and finding that Reason had done a format change into a pro-statist magazine.

              1. You think you know someone, and then you find out they like Domino's. That's worse than them being a racist or Irish.

                1. Isn't Domino some kind of Irish name? O'Domino?

                2. If you're hungry enough, Domino's tastes OK.

                  / damning with faint praise

                  1. Yes, and so does a leather handbag. If you're hungry enough.

                    1. I would sooner barf in Rather's mouth and then kiss her than eat Domino's or any other chain pizza. You guys don't have any good mom and pop places where you live? WTF is wrong with you people?

                    2. I do. We have a place called Bruno's that I like very much.

                    3. I live in the "Birthplace of the Aluminum Industry", formerly called Little Chicago as it was mob-run from top to bottom. It's a very Italian town. There are quite a few local pizza shops, and every one of them sucks.

          3. Lesson Learned. I'll stick to the good stuff in the future. You know, Gatti's or CiCi's. I especially love the Mac and Cheese Pizza at the all you can eat CiCi's buffet.

              1. That's Photoshopped, right?

                1. It should be if it isn't.

                2. I'm afraid not. Thats the real deal.

              2. See, that's why I only eat at Dominos.

                1. I have no idea why libertarians are branded as unserioous elitists.

                  1. I have no idea why libertarians are branded as unserioous elitists.

                    It's just that the serious elitists are even more insufferable.

                    1. It doesn't take an elitist to sneer at macaroni and cheese on pizza crust.

                    2. Besides, if we were elitists, would we be talking about pizza? I'm thinking pizza falls into the bourgeois cuisine category.

            1. That shit looks like a five year old made it in the microwave.

              1. As usual you are all splitting hairs when the truth is, if you don't eat obscure and celebrated pizza in Brooklyn, like-a this =


                or-a this =


                or fuckin' Lucali's...

                ... then nothing you eat is 'pizza'. Its cheesy grease-bread. You are all philistines debating the relative depth of your ignorance and tastelessness.

                That is all. Let me know when you start debating Pastrami.

                p.s. I gladly invite Al Waysright to come to eat at any of these wonderful places... where he will be immediately stabbed to death by irate Catholic immigrants and his remains cremated in a proper brick oven.

                1. Last I checkedgrimaldis is a chain. Hell we have one in houston. Its pretty good, id say, especially their pesto pizza, but far from the best I've ever had.

                  That goes to a little fococcia (spelling words right? Fuck that shit) pizza brunch bar in downtown austin. Breakfast pizza and all you can drink mimosas? Yes please

                  1. You see? Snobbery is possible for some of you. Join us, and forsake these debates about the relative merits of Dominos, Papa Johns, or Subway vs Quiznos. Learn to speak in gourmand terms and never again suffer the indignity of anyone telling you *you aren't way above that shit*.

                    Tell the truth, I've never eaten at grimaldis in brooklyn, and it may be a chain (no suprises), but I also wouldn't be surprised if it were 100X better than the ones in Texas.

                    Spumoni gardens, on the other hand... holy fucking gastronomic pleasure batman. Plus, if you are aiming to get into the mafia, its like a 'jobs fair'. Fuhgetabboutit.

                    Frankly my favorite pizza is the place across the street. (La Nonna, Williamsburg) They do a 'tricolore' pizza with fresh mozz, arugala, & proscuitto... which is obviously supposed to be a shout out to the italian flag, and italian-ness in general...but fuck me if it isn't the best slice I've ever had. Pizza made by actual italians is actually semi-hard to find even in brooklyn. Not like I'm racist or anything, but there's a plus factor in people who have something personal invested in the quality of their food.

                  2. Cowboys drink mimosas? Who knew.

                    1. They do when they're free and all you can drink!

                      And apparently the place is named Taverna.

                    2. Tango Mike|8.10.11 @ 2:44PM|#
                      Cowboys drink mimosas? Who knew.

                      I'm Joe Buck, and hell if i know what imosa is, but gosh, if you like em, i'll drink em, why not! Also, you look real nice honey, and a cowboy here needs to make a little money...

        4. I make my own pizza: flour, yeast, olive oil, and salt for the crust, rolled out until it fits the baking stone, and then whatever spare meat I've taken out of the freezer for the toppings, which is some combination of sausage, meatballs, and ham.

        5. It actually is a lot better, until afterwards. It's absolutely covered in garlic and butter.

    2. Those commercials were the best ever. "Try new Domino's! It's much less awful!"

      1. Yeah, the whole "You said we sucked, so we changed!" was one of the funniest ad campaigns ever. You know you've bottomed out when that's all you have left.

        1. The tone of the commercials was pleading bordering on begging. "Please give us another try! PLEASE?!?"

          1. This seems oddly reminiscent to me of something familiar, something. . . .

            I've got it--elections.

          2. ". . . and take a picture of the delivered pizza for our ads."

            1. It still tastes like crap.

              1. I can't believe no one has posted this yet. I'm very disappointed in all of you.

                1. Wow. Perfect!

            2. We ordered some the other day because we're new to the area and it was late. The pizza wasn't terrible, but the cheese had run all over the place, and so they're still doing a crappy job.

              1. Only redneck hayseeds (the kind of people libertarians hate) eat Dominoes pizza, keeping them in business all these years, despite the evidently crappy product that the hayseeds nevertheless seem to enjoy. Stupid rednecks! Why don't they have class, like libertarians?

                1. Hey you sound like a redneck hayseed and I don't hate you. Thus disproving your claim.

                2. I'm a libertarian from Alabama.

                  1. with a Banjo on his knee

                3. Maybe you should scroll down the page to the "beer confessions" part of the thread, then see if you can call us elitists.

                  1. I'm a libertarian from Alabama that drank cases of beer that cost $3.00.

                    1. Who drank cases. Despite being from the South, I am human.

                4. Well that's better than damn yankees who think chopping meat and covering it with sauce makes barbecue.

                  1. That's fucking treason.

        2. Ford pretty much ran the same campaign in the 80's "Our cars used to be really bad but they're much better now".

    3. Had it when the company ordered it for some function. It really is less awful than the previous version.

      In related news, I would also rather eat rotten meat soaked in curdled milk than eat squishy green cat shit, but that doesn't mean I'm voluntarily choosing the rotten meat / curdled milk combo provided there are any other alternatives. Such is the new Dominos.

    4. I don't know how something like Domino's even exists. There are independent pizza places everywhere. Even the shittiest ones I have been to are way better than Domino's.

      1. College students, dude. College students can order super cheap pizza while drunk, have it delivered with no driving by them, and don't have any taste anyway, seeing as they're gunning down Natty Lites.

        1. I have to agree with this. The crap I consumed while in college is disturbing to recall. I remember saying that Milwaukee's Beast wasn't that bad once. Yes, it was.

          1. How about Natty Lite? I don't know why, but it was better coming up than going down.

            1. Yes, it's very important when binge drinking to consider the taste of the beer when vomited back up.

              1. In college, I once bought a couple cases of Texas Light (not Lone Star) beer for $5.50 each.

                The way to drink them was to put them in the freezer for exactly 45 minutes. You wound up with beer slushies.

                1. When I was at UF in the 80s, Stroh's offered a $5.00 rebate for a case of its, ahem, "beer." Since it went for about $8.00 a case back then, it was a moral imperative to buy as many cases as you possibly could. I vomited well that month, let me tell you.

                  1. I went with Olde English or Crazy Horse. Costs $2, and no one blamed you for bringing shitty beer to the party. They saw you were drinking swill and on a budget, and hell maybe even offered you a Hamm's or a Bud because watching someone drink OE was bad enough.

                    Nothing makes a White Owl taste good as much as a 40 of OE.

                    1. PL - I would have been all over that back then, mailing in refund slips 14 at a time.

                      While I was walking back to my apartment struggling mightily to carry those two cases (I only lived a block away, I thought I could manage), a cop car pulled up. I was only 19 or 20, so my heart was in my throat. As it came up to me, the cop on the passenger side rolls down his window and says "hey, need any help with that?" and they drove off, laughing. I thought it was a great line, myself.

                      Ska - one of my guitarists / drinking buddies used to get 32 oz. (Florida law - no 40's) Schlitz MLB's for $1 a piece. When I was poor, I would too.

                    2. Oh, and the cases were 4 - 6 packs on cardboard flats, not in actual cases, so I had to carry them in front of me. I wasn't that weak.

                    3. I think the Stroh's cases were like suitcases, with handles and stuff. Not sure.

                      There was a limit of one per customer, but I fear that rule was honored more in the breach.

                    4. Shaefer used to go on sale for $1.69/six pack sometimes. That made it my favorite beer. 20+ years ago.

                    5. Oh, and Domino's would sell you a large cheese pizza for $4.99 (or was it $3.99) if you picked it up. I'd order it on the way to the store to get the sixer of Shaefer.

                    6. Real Life Billboard:

                      Schaeffer. For when you're having more than one.

            2. Phillistines. The lowest I'll go is Sam Adams. My latest favorite: http://www.newbelgium.com/beer.....5c6ed3418d

            3. We drank Falstaff (the yellow crates made for great speaker stands)...

              and the most popular was 40oz of Mickeys. At 99c ea, it was hard to beat *BURP*

          2. Where I went to college, we didn't have a Domino's, just an independent pizza place that made incredibly greasy pizzas. But they were big sponsors on the college radio station, and when I did shifts on the station between terms, we got coupons from them for each shift we worked.

            I can still remember the ad. I think they only ran one ad, but ran it over and over.

            1. College was where I learned that an 8oz New York stake was cheaper than pizza.

        2. I'm ashamed to admit that I had Lone Star beer and Domino's pizza at a party a couple weeks ago. In my defense, I'm a grad student and it was free.

      2. I asked that of a local Italian restaurant oner that makes a great Jersey style tomato pie. He said it's because his product costs more (due to quality ingredients) and as far as delivery is concerned (he doesn't deliver) anyone in the neighborhood who wants his pizza just comes by and picks it up anyway, so why hire a driver?

      3. Parents with kids. Kids don't know they are eating crap, so why buy the expensive, good-tasting stuff?

        1. moreover, kids like the taste of crap. It's an evolutionary adaptation. Toughens them up for the future.

  3. FYI, under the proposed regs to be enacted pursuant to the legislation, chain restaurants must place a sign identifying calorie information for every item in a salad bar or all-you-can-eat buffet.

  4. Wickard strikes again!

    You want real stimulus to this economy? Repeal every economic regulation passed by the Federal Government since 1900. (That's just a down payment - we'll later roll it back to 1850).

    "Gasp! But the poor and the middle class will be exterminated by the Robber Barons who would arise!" - Liberals and Progressives

  5. Off-topic, but Obama is just another black man redlined by racist agencies.

    1. "credit" agencies

  6. In Domino's case, the only way it can fit calorie information on its menu signs is to provide broad ranges. For instance, a large "Feast" pizza could range from 1,840 to 3,740 calories, because there are four different crust types and six different varieties.


    Goddamn tyrrany of choice!

  7. As in?a slice of a large deep dish "ExtravaganZZa Feast" pizza contains 420 calories (and there are eight slices in a large pie).

    420? Something special baked into that slice?

    Am I the only one who wonders why they can't arrange the pepperoni on my pizza in such a way that when I run the barcode app on my Droid over it, it would display the nutritional information?

    1. I'm sure they could do that as a QR code. Of course, the kids at the shop would just arrange the pepperoni so that you'd get redirected to a p0rn site.

      'cos that's what I would do.

      1. Screw that. Unless I'm getting referral fees, you're going to zombo.com or hampsterdance or some similarly awful thing.

        1. I still laugh at hamsterdance...it is an autonomic response.

        2. Unless I'm getting referral fees, you're going to zombo.com

          Zombo has a Super Bowl ring

  8. The law specifies that the number of calories in a food product must be printed directly next to the item on the menu

    At least we're not using a color-coded scale like those weenies at DHS.

  9. Pizza is a lot like pizza - even when it's bad, it's still pizza.

    1. Yes, pizza is a lot like pizza. In fact, it's just like pizza.

      1. Even when it's thick pizza?

        1. Especially then. See, there's more of it.

          1. Well, I like thick pizza because it's more meat and cheese than bread, and we all know that bread is what idiots eat because they were too stupid to eat a dead animal.

            1. There's far more bread overall in a deep dish pizza than in a thin crust, brain trust.

              1. How the fuck would I know? I never eat the shit.

                1. Well why don't you cry about it?

            2. Bread is an evolutionary backwater.

              Speaking of bread, I have been munching on some great examples of it from a bakery in Cary, NC called La Farm. If you have the means to go there, I highly recommend it.

              1. Bread is the leading weapon of the PRIVate agriCULTural cIty stATE.

                1. I just went along for commenting purposes. I fucking love good bread.

                  1. Bread, is, at best, a vehicle for butter. Good bread can compliment the butter nicely, but shitty bread is just a horror.

                    1. Yes, I agree that bread without butter is inadequate.

                    2. Though I'll sometimes do the olive oil thing with my bread, too.

                    3. You have not eaten good bread, I see.

                    4. "Bread, is, at best, a vehicle for butter. "

                      I must disagree. Instead, I say, with good bread, YOU. DON'T. NEED. BUTTER.

                      However, you are correct in that shitty bread is just a horror.

                    5. I'm going through some fantastic bread now, and I think it's even more fantasticker with butter. Butter almost always enhances the flavor of bread.

                    6. Good bread is very nice for wiping up steak juice.

                    7. Or the leftover juice from mussels in white sauce.

                    8. Or with the juice from mussels marinara. Or with the juice from a tomato onion basil salad. Or with fresh mozzarella and basil and tomato. Or drizzled with olive oil and prosciutto/jamon. Or with just some pan-fried broccoli rabe on it, nice and bitter. Or...well, you get the picture.

                    9. I sometime shake some salt on bread. Kind like having butter, but less fat.

                      Good bread should never be sliced until you want to eat it. It should have a thick, hard crust, and a moisy, fluffy interior.

                    10. You need more fat, you lunatic. What are you trying to do to your pancreas?

                    11. Bread needs fat.

                    12. Best bread I ever had was at Colicchio and Sons in New York. The serve these little cast iron platters right out of the oven. The bread is sort of like a buttery challah and has sea salt sprinkled on top. It's so good it doesn't need butter.

                      Pic: http://farm6.static.flickr.com.....a399be.jpg

        2. Deep dish pizza is just like deep dish pizza: disgusting.

          A = A, and SHIT = SHIT.

          1. Yet still pizza, I note. You've come a long way. Must be that westcoast living.

            1. I can hear the apoplectic rage from Denver.

            2. Mere semantics, ProL. It's too much effort to write "open-faced shitty calzone" every time.

              1. It's just a short step from being too lazy to insult deep-dish pizza to flying to Chicago to eat it. It's not that long of a flight from Seattle to there, after all.

                1. No, it's actually a very long step; an infinite one, in fact.

                  1. For all I know, you're at Gino's eating deep dish right now. Prove you aren't.

                    1. You can't prove a negative, ProL.

                    2. You can't, maybe. Me and other deep-dish pizza eaters like President Obama do it all the time. For instance, I just saved 10,000 jobs.

                    3. "I order linguine with marinara, and get egg noodles with ketchup"

                    4. Heh--Goodfellas, right? Those mob movies always make me hungry.

                    5. You are correct, sir. Every time I hear Episiarch talk about food, I think of that scene.

                    6. I like to think of him as Clemenza, cooking for the boys and coding for the mob.

                    7. Similar line used in opening episode of Band of Brothers.

                    8. What I just said? But how could they know how I picture Episiarch?

                    9. I do code for the mob. But our mob is our startup. And I cook too, but surprisingly most of us in the dev team are cooks.

                    10. What's a mob start-up like? Like Vito and Pete?

                    11. this is a myth. and no true student of analytical reasoning would repeat it!!!


          2. Aye. However, I have yet to find a decent independent pizza maker here in the pacific northwest. Point out a few dude...

            1. Kinda partial to Alfy's myself. (A Supreme or Royal Alfy's is a pretty dense slice.) And Pagliaaci's is good if you're in the U-District or Queen Anne.

            2. Tutta Bella is pretty good, but their pies are really small and expensive, and a really small pie just isn't the same as a full size one.

              I've had two other places--not chains--recommended to me in Seattle, but I haven't had a chance to go yet.

              1. I don't know, Pizza in a Cup has the best pizza in a cup I have ever tasted. This guy is unbelievable. He ran the old Cup 'o Pizza guy out of business.

                1. Yeah, people come from all over to eat this.

                  1. I demand that everyone here know that I refuse to eat pizza that is not made and served round and flat.

    1. If ya want to go the thermodynamic route then you may need to do the (detailed) thermodynamics unfortunately.

      1. Shouldn't you be out busting chav heads? We can do thermo afterward.

        1. Nah, it's all quiet tonight. There's a bit of vigilantism afoot in south London apparently though.

    2. Wartster, are you all paleo? Let me guess, you do Crossfit too. You know what? I'm not even going to mock, because those goofy barefoot running shoes actually seem to be taking off so maybe you're onto something. Plus, eating meat and lifting heavy things is hawt.

      1. Jesus, I hate Crossfit cult fuckers. The poor dumb bastards drop $150 a month to get yelled at while they lift tiny weights for silly numbers of reps, with terrible technique. I experimented with it a long time ago, just enough to really learn to hate.

        No, I just lift heavy things. I want to see if I can manage a 600 pound deadlift in the next year.

        1. If you need a physical trainer to "motivate" you while working out...you have motivation problems. Meaning, you don't actually want to get in shape.

          1. Epi, I found the most flattering picture of you evar. UNSKEERD

            1. How the fuck did you get that?!? Did you hack my MySpace page?

              1. Nice touch with the Myspace reference. I LOLed and BFFed.

        2. Ha. That was my gut feeling about Crossfit too. But when people get into it they cannot shut up about it so I wondered if it might actually be effective. I have a female friend who is on the chubby side, and per her Facebook it is like OMG super hard guys! And yet she mysteriously remains chubby. Mmmmkay.

          600 lbs? I just Googled and it seems that is extremely impressive.

          1. There are some people at the local crossfit place who are in awesome shape.

            I haven't joined or anything, I can motivate myself to work out just fine, but if that is what it takes for someone to get in shape, hey, whatever works.

          2. i help train at a local xfit. trust me. it is effective.

            it's also a cult. but that's not necessarily a bad thing. i'm a surfer. we fucking invented sports cults

            all xfit does is involve people in working very hard (which is incentivized through timed workouts and max testing), at FULL BODY MOVEMENTS (not isolation bullshit).

            Xfit is also great for firefighters. it's less optimal for cops imo, since the former requires more endurance and the latter requires more limit and speed strength than xfit generally emphasizes.

            but in general, the average person would do a lot better with Xfit than with most other programs.

            obviously, if they are training for a specific sport like olympic weightlifting or volleyball, then the workouts should be modified somewhat to concentrate on the sport specific requirements

            also, reebok just had the Xfit games. feel f ree to checkout the pics and videos. hard bodies are everywhere, even with people in their 60's. iow, it works VERY well for body recomp

        3. warty,i am a strength athlete, but i workout at a local Xfit too - i got free membership because i help teach their lifters proper OLift form.

          Xfit is not designed, nor will it, optimally train limit strength (as needed in deadlift, as well as start strength) or speed strength (needed moreso in Olifting), but it's still a great OVERALL way to train for the average joe since it emphasizes full body movements, balance, flexibility, endurance, etc.

          i wouldn't recommend a powerlifter or deadlift specialist train Xfit. otoh, i wouldn't recommend a gymnast train like a marathoner either

          SAID principle always applies.

          1. As long as you're not one of those almond-counting lunatics.

            1. i don't do paleo. i try to eat a lot of meats and veggies, but i don't subscribe to the gluten is the enemy (tm) philosophy etc.

              1. The paleo people are still better than the Zoners, annoying as they may be.

        4. The poor dumb bastards drop $150 a month to get yelled at while they lift tiny weights for silly numbers of reps, with terrible technique.

          Why bother. For a few months worth of dues, you can buy a few hundred lbs of bumper plates, a rack, some kettle bells, and just copy the WOD's off of the CF home page.

          1. many people enjoy the atmosphere, frankly. it's the same reason people go to a bar vs. sitting alone in their house drinking.

            in my sport, i can say it is difficult (not impossible) to lift heavy weights without having fellow athletes and/or a coach to help inspire you, as well as correct technique

            being surrounded by people who are better than you helps you realize what is possible and helps you push yourself. at my training center, i train with former and future olympians. it helps.

            one of the main problems i have with xfit is that many of the people teaching Olifts have no fucking idea what they are doing. a weekend course (and mike burgener is a great guy btw) does not qualify ANYBODY to teach the olifts.

            1. "one of the main problems i have with xfit is that many of the people teaching Olifts have no fucking idea what they are doing. a weekend course (and mike burgener is a great guy btw) does not qualify ANYBODY to teach the olifts.

              Welcome to the modern personal trainer. They might be able to tell you some exercise they heard about that will help develop a muscle or two but have no clue how to properly execute it because they don't fucking do it.

            2. Personally I hate working out with other people around. I like my concrete basement, weight rack and my audio-geek stereo blaring the music I want to hear.

              btw - I just strength train using deadlifts, back squats and bench presses. It's done more for me than any other weightlifting regimen I've followed before.

              1. also: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

        5. Jesus, 600 pounds? I guess I need to start actually trying. I don't think I've gotten past 300 yet. Damn you, degenerative discs!

      2. Crossfit causes things like this. GAAAARRGH SMASH

        1. oh also, i have two friends that are MMA fighters and they have started using xfit to help with their conditioning and kinesthetic awareness. and yes, it has improved their performance

          georges st pierre has used it too.

          it works well, for what it does. it is not going to work well for a speedstrength athlete, or a limit strength athlete, obviously

          1. it works well, for what it does. it is not going to work well for a speedstrength athlete, or a limit strength athlete, obviously

            That's why someone invented CrossFit Football.

            1. yup. and it is MODIFIABLE (gamer nerd coming out here) to fit different stuff.

              for example, for a guy in a sport where power is of premium importance (certain football positions), the workouts would be modified thusly.

              in football (real football, not that soccer crap), there is also very little (actually no) reason to have the kind of endurance where one "goes" for minute after minute w./o a break. no play lasts that long.

              so, for example, improving your mile time would not help AT ALL.

              1. I used to do CF, but the guy who runs the local affiliate does it as a part time gig, so the gym has pretty limited hours. I ended up buying a bunch of bumper plates, a power cage, some kettle bells and a Concept2, and started mixing in some of my own CF inspired workouts into my lifting routine. I will do some heavy lifts first, then finish off with a shorter WOD. As you said, modifiable.

                It's the only program I have found, that has allowed me to add lean mass while dumping fat.

                1. rock on. many ways to skin the cat. i have a set of bumpers, an eleiko training bar, a platform etc. in my garage.

                  1. Huh, I had never heard of it, but I'm trying to get in shape for this hockey season, and there's a Xfit just 3 miles from my new place, so maybe I'll drop in a time or two and check it out. Once I get some good exercises, I'll probably just work out on my own, but it's always good to learn some new techniques. Mainly just been doing squat thrusts, push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, etc at home.

                    Thanks for the heads-up.

          2. Sure, circuit training is good for conditioning. I don't see the need to join a cult when I can run hill sprints and do kettlebell shit on my own.

            Speaking of which, I'm gonna go run up and down the hill in my neighborhood. It's gonna suck.

            1. Well, sprint up, walk down. I strive for precision.

              1. you absolutely do not need to join Xfit (especially if you already know how to do the olifts, kettlebell shit, e tc.) to do a similarly effective workout structure.

                like i said, the club/cult atmosphere helps people stick with it, push themselves and get (sometimes) qualified coaching on technique (i teach Olift technique and i have pretty damn good technique, have read a metric assload of russian, etc. texts and have a high speed video camera and analysis software, so it's helpful).

                but absolutely you can "do it alone"

            2. Anyone with a training background doesn't need the specific programming offered through crossfit, but the principles still work.

              The main goal of crossfit is to increase your work capacity. Take some of the same workouts you've seen people do with tiny weights, and use some big boy weights instead, and you'd be surprised how much of an ass kicking you can get.

              1. dunphy beat me to it!

              2. yea. i do complexes sometimes with the Olifts.

                here's a favorite.

                clean pull *1 followed by squat clean, jerk , catch bar on back, back squat *2, behind the neck jerk (and if you are really masochistic, do a behind the neck push press)

                do that with 80-85% of your max clean and jerk

                it not only helps with work capacity, but helps improve "bar/body awareness" and reactive strength. also, catching the bar with load is something most lifters DoN'T do anymore with the advent of bumper plates. they are missing out on a modality that causes a significant training effect in itself.

    3. thanks for the link - I am gonna try that guy's suggestions for the asparagus and what not.
      I have done the low carb, no white food thing and have had great success in getting my cholesterol down and improving my type II diabetes, as well as losing about 20 pounds.

  10. This is such a stupid plan, that discriminates against those who are illiterate.

    A much more simple, and effective policy would require food to be prepared in 100 calorie sized portions?

    1. Mmmmm... pizza nuggets....

    2. A much more simple, and effective policy would require food to be prepared in 100 calorie sized portions?

      100 calorie portions of anything I eat, except possibly my lunch salad, would be just enough to make me want to stab somebody in the neck with a salad fork.

  11. Fear not, this only applies to chain restaurants that cater to the mob. Establishments such as L'Auberge Chez Fran?ois are exempt and you may enjoy your fine dining experience without govt intrusion.

    1. Thats good to know. Now I am can have my Pommes frites/french fries, steak ? l' Americaine/read meat, and Cr?me br?l?e/burnt cream without the pesky nutritional information while feeling so multicultural.

  12. Starting a pizza thread on Hit & Run is pretty irresponsible. Someone always gets hurt during these.

    1. (punches Jeff in the taint)

      1. Does that really hurt if he enjoys it?

    2. I think the editors do it for the lulz.

  13. i have no problem with the labeling (since it doesn't limit choice and increases consumer knowledge) *if* govt. gives those businesses tax breaks that equal the amount of money they have to shell out to comply

    iow, it's wrong if it costs them anything significant

    1. Yea, what's another 500 pages added to a tax code of 70,000+ pages that will require unknown amounts of time and money to the already "estimated cost of compliance to taxpayers [of] five billion hours and approximately $200 billion." H.R.1125

      1. good point

  14. Is anyone else getting Papa John's ads? Fuck you, Papa John, we're not interested in your garbage, no matter how many layers of pepperoni you cram into it.

    1. You know, I have a question about Papa John. How come the fucker doesn't age?

      1. It's all the baby souls he eats. That and drinking all that garlic butter.

        1. There is something unnatural about that. The garlic butter, I mean.

          1. The Garlic butter and the pepper is the best thing in the box. You wouldn't be able to eat the pizza without dipping it in the butter.

      2. Because he was created by Disney imagineers to get us used to shitty food so when the Mouse takes over and sticks us in camps we won't mind the food?

        Of course, for godawful pizza, it's hard to beat Little Ceaser's.

        1. The worst pizza I ever consumed was public school pizza. Next worse was probably one of those old frozen pizzas, which I'm convinced used cardboard for a crust. After that, I'd say one of those free, happy hour pizzas you'd get at bars, which was more bread with bad sauce on it than pizza.

          1. I loved the carpet texture to school pizza, and when the peperoni curled up and cupped a decent amount of nucler orange grease...ahh the good old days.

            1. It shows how awful school food was that the crappy pizza was one of the better things you could get.

              1. welsh rabbit (rarebit) and monte christos!

              2. I agree, way better than the "hamburger" or the ham'n'cheese sandwich. We could get a pizza combo which also included french fries and a large cup of soft serve (they called it a shake but it was soft serve in a cup).

          2. The local Hess gas stations sell large Godfather's for $6 each. I'm thinking that would beat all, but too chicken to try.

          3. Negative... The worst pizza EVER was made on the USS Enterprise CVN-65 in 1989.

            I was one in the MARDET. That pizza night still gives me horrifying nightmares.

            1. :/ I was in the MARDET (Marine Detachment).

              1. Federal government pizza. One can only imagine.

            2. Well, I had "pizza" cooked over a portable gas camp stove in the dark in a North Carolina state park in 1988. Trust me, that was worse.

              1. I had a campfire pizza once. Dough and burnt crust at the same time. Next day, thanks to torrential rain, I got to eat freeze-dried spaghetti soup.

            3. You were a squid, you deserved it. ONTC or Great Lakes?

              1. re: MARDET

                ...ah, forget I asked.

                1. No offense taken Sir. Did my time honorably and got the hell out without looking back.

                  Hollywood Marine here, MCRD San Diego.

          4. I wandered into a McDonald's that was test marketing a "McPizza" in the late '90's. I think it was in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, either that or Tulsa. It was a McDonald's in a Walmart no less. That was the most unpleasant pizza I have ever had. I thought it was just funny enough to try, so I did. It had to be the most god-awful pizza I have ever eaten; but on an up note, it is probably the most effective laxative McDonald's has produced to this day. I thought I detected a hint of castor oil.

    2. Papa John's is better than Pizza Hut, but worse than Boston's North End.

      1. People from CT, MA, and RI should be familiar with Papa Gino's, which actually isn't bad.

        1. Papa Ginos is, indeed, decent.

    3. I surf H&R with only cached images set to display, and no Flash, so I don't see the ads.

  15. looking at this from a contrarian angle, labeling helps increase consumer ability to discern value, especially in kilocalories/$

    iow, some people might find it a feature, not a bug, that the $4 sammich they are ordering has 2,000 kilocalories.

    in certain phases of my training, i have to eat 5k to 6k a day.

    it is almost impossible (for me) to eat "clean" and get that many.

    1. It's not the labeling, it's the government demanding one.more.fucking.thing from businesses that aren't doing anything wrong, except making tasty food. Also, since it looks like the lipid theory of fat gain is total and utter bullshit, they can cram it with up the same hole they put their food pyramids.

      I've never been a big lifter, but when I was running distance, I'd need 4-5k a day just to stay at my weight, and I'm not a big guy.

      1. right. my point is this. if the govt. is going to DEMAND this, then the govt. should PAY for this.

        1. Unfunded mandates strike again!

        2. Either way, the taxpayer gets screwed. I hate to say it, especially with Obama getting his "regulators" in overdrive, but if the government gets involved in paying for it, it'll just become another profit center for lobbyists.

          Also, you probably already know this, but macadamia nuts are a great source of quick calories.

          1. as a former hawaii resident, i always subscribe when it's macadamias

  16. In California chain restaurants already have calories counts on the menus. And you know what? The lines for Big Macs were just as long as ever.

    1. Naturally. Which is why disclosure alone is never the endgame of the meddlesome nanny whore.

      1. **ding**ding**ding**!! We have a winner! To collect your prize, just take a slide down the **Slippery Slope**!!

        1. Bibertopia, next stop!

    1. Keep your laws off my pizza!

    2. Mexican Pizza, even OLD mexican pizza, is not Pizza...I defer to Epi.

  17. The Federal Government Wants You to Know That Your Pizza Contains Between 1,840 [And] 3,740 Calories. You're Welcome.


  18. Like I said, we had to pass the law so that we..oops, I mean you...can see what's in it!

  19. How long before they pass a law making it mandatory for each menu item to be 1,500 calories?

    1. Just as soon as the Democrats control both houses and the presidency again.

  20. What if a restaurant employee has sex with a customer? Does he have to inform her of the approximate calorie content in the semen?

    1. Only if he ate pizza in the previous twenty-four hours.

  21. This law may be vague and unenforceable.

    What type of "calorie" is required to be on the menu? The following are the two primary types of "calories" - each with many variations -, one of which is about 1000 times larger than the other:

    'calorie (cal)
    the CGS unit of heat energy. This calorie (also called a gram calorie or small calorie) is the amount of heat required at a pressure of one atmosphere to raise the temperature of one gram of water by one degree Celsius. Unfortunately, this varies with the temperature of the water, so it is necessary to specify which degree Celsius is meant. A traditional choice was the degree from 14.5?C to 15.5?C; raising the temperature of water through this range requires 4.1858 joules, a quantity called the 15? calorie. Another choice produces the thermochemical calorie, equal to exactly 4.184 joules. More common today is the international steam table calorie, or IT calorie for short, defined by an international conference in 1956 to equal exactly 4.1868 joules, exactly 1.163 milliwatt hours, or about 0.003 968 32 British thermal units (Btu). The name of the unit comes from the Latin calor, heat.

    Calorie (kcal or Cal)
    a common name for the MKS unit of heat energy. This unit is properly called the kilocalorie; it is also called the kilogram calorie or large calorie. It is often (but certainly not always!) distinguished from the small calorie by capitalizing its name and symbol. The large calorie, or rather kilocalorie, is the amount of heat required at a pressure of one atmosphere to raise the temperature of one kilogram of water by one degree Celsius. Since this is 1000 times as much water as mentioned in the definition of the small calorie, the kilocalorie equals 1000 small calories, 4.1868 kilojoules, 3.9683 Btu, or 1.163 watt hours. (These conversions assume the IT calorie is in use; see previous entry.) These are the "calories" that joggers are trying to get rid of, the ones we gain by eating. The use of the same term "calorie" for two different-size units is endlessly confusing, but we seem to be stuck with it.'

    Calorie explanations can be found at:

    For an explanation of the CGS and MKS systems of measurement see:

    Perhaps if we used the British Thermal Unit or the joule there would be less confusion.

    1. That assumes the dumb fucks that wrote the law actually gave a shit and would think it through.

      1. I'm with the majority here who thinks this law is asinine.

        However, "calorie confusion" may be an out for those required to abide.

    2. This law may be vague and unenforceable.

      Which is how legislators like them. That way the laws become like the Commerce Clause. It can apply to anything.

  22. I believe that NPR reported that nutrition labels don't work... NPR for god's sake!

    1. Well, yes, but they still endorsed them in spite of that. Whether this governmental mandate or that governmental mandate works, is justified or is even a legitimate function of government is and always has been irrelevant for the most part. NPR most certainly did not suggest that since these labels are a costly drag on business and the economy they should be done away with, only that "we" need to do more to "inform" consumers.

      1. The bloodlettings appear to be ineffective. Hmmmm......


        1. ...or "leeches", either way. Derp!

          1. Actually that might work. If they start madating leeches on all pizzas I know I won't be eating as much pizza.

  23. Just ban the damn pizzas already ! Think about how much cheaper health care would be without all the junk food people eat.

    1. Don't forget to ban alcohol, gasoline, candy, and delicious food (since people have a tendency to consume too much). That way we will all become more healthy.

      1. We should ban anything too pleasurable, because people will overindulge in it.


      2. Also, sex. There are still STDs, right? They impact health? If the government has the right to control your diet so we don't have to pay for your cholesterol meds, well, it has the right to control your genitals so we don't have to pay for your valtrex.

        And really, considering the social costs of single parenthood, it stands to reason that only married couples should be allowed to have sex, and even then (to minimize the health risks), only for procreation. (In case someone was thinking of bringing this up: while obviously procreative sex is costly, that cost is necessary to produce new workers for the welfare system, so it's a net benefit as long as middle class or better folks are doing it.)

        Thanks, progressives, for laying the groundwork for us. We don't even need to mention God to achieve this, so no first amendment challenges, sorry.

  24. Pizza Sam's. Local, one store. Best. Pizza. On. Planet. Earth.


    OK, with this truth established, please carry on with your meaningless discussion.

    PS "Chicago-style pizza" isn't. Discuss...

    1. it isn't

      btw,i KIND OF agree with bourdain in that IF you don't think of it as pizza, then chicago pizza is not bad as a food item with its own thang going on. iow, as pizza it is an abomination. as a food choice, it aint horrible.

      but pizza is still way better than chicago cakepie

      1. Tony is right on this one. Just close your eyes and imagine it's a gigantic open face meatball sandwich with marinara and cheese. Much like this Fall, I will close my eyes and imagine that Ohio State is playing marvelously, and all that cheering is for the Scarlet and Gray, and we actually won the first five games...

        1. In what sport?

  25. Aldi's has a good frozen 12" pizza for less than $2.50.

    1. I will have to check that out.

    2. Made in China.

  26. Speaking of training without bumpers, you'll like this, dunphy.

    Polish Olympic Weightlifting

    1. yea, i;ve seen that. i love the running through the snow thang.

      btw, i have ironmind's polish training hall tape with kolecki etc. that is frigging awesome

      what's interesting is that they BENCH PRESS which to most coaches (especially the bulgarian school) is sacrilege.

      1. Pendlay has his guys bench, I think.

        Speaking of ironmind, I bought some Captains of Crush grippers. Fucking AWESOME.

        1. i got the #2 closed. the #3 seems unpossible. granted, i have small hands...




  27. Thanks for making me hungry. Bastards.

    1. Didn't you read upthread, Hazel? Just think of Domino's.

      1. the papa john's down by the muckleshoot casino was running a large 1 topping pizza take out for $6.99.

        that's pretty frigging cheap, but yes... it's papa johns

        i think now they are doing 2 toppings for 7.99

        1. Yeah, Little Caesar's down here has a $5 large pepperoni or cheese take out. Same warning applies - although I'd put LC's over PJ's & Domino's. But not by much.

          1. My daughter worked at Little Ceasar's. It is the worst pizza I have ever had. I refuse to eat it. In Columbus, we have Tommy's Pizza which has a cracker crust. The pepperonis curl up into liitle delicious grease cups. If there was a God, God would eat Tommy's pizza. It's the best pizza ever. Yes, ever.

        2. Our Papa John's has a deal where if the Rangers score 7 or more runs, even if they lose, your entire order is 50% off the next day if you use the online code "Rangers 7".

          They've been on a bit of a slump lately, but by and large, the Rangers have bats, so we've eaten a shit-load of cheap pizza this season.

          1. So what you are saying is that you pray for Michael Young to get hurt?

            1. BTW, he's the MVP IMO.

  28. I eat a lot of microwave pizza.

    Whatever brand the wife finds couponz for.

  29. Domino's sucks!

    Can I be one of the cool kids now?

      1. The way I look at it is that there's little need to suffer through inferior pizza. It's not hard to make, for one, and there are pizza places all over that make a decent pie.

        1. somebody once said even bad pizza is pretty good.

          throw some decent sauce on a friggin' english muffin with some cheese and bake it and that's a tasty snack.

          it's just not PIZZA

          1. I'm in that camp. I'm even in that camp with barbecue. I just don't have illusions about what's good and what's passable.

            1. dunphy, the Papa John's of cops. Hey, at least he's not Dominos.

  30. Remember toaster pizzas?

    1. Episiarch is familiar with those--see way above.

      1. Why do you persist in telling your lies? Is it because your soul is as black as your shits after eating deep dish abominations?

        1. Back to your toaster, you Eggo Pizza eater!

        2. Those toaster pizzas were actually pretty good. I remember one particularly good batch that my girlfriend with rock solid silicone boobs and I ate while watching The Mummy to hold us over until the Olive Garden opened.

    2. Toaster Pizza is slang for Cylon afterbirth in the BSG universe.

      1. it's the "whedonverse"

        1. Wrong scifi show...

  31. "I'm the enemy because I like to think. I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy that could sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs or the side order of gravy fries? I want high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and buckets of cheese. Okay? I want to smoke Cuban cigars the size of Cincinnati in the nonsmoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green Jell-O all over my body reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I might suddenly feel the need to. Okay, pal?"

    Dennis Leary
    Demolition Man.

    1. Clearly an amalgam of Hit & Run commenters. I had no idea we were so well known.

      1. I like Leary, but in real life he is a pretty open liberal. But at least one you could actually talk to. Not a Pelosi one.

        1. That was his character in the movie, and he was no liberal.

          1. It was Dennis Leary playing himself playing Bill Hicks.

    2. Love that movie.

  32. How's the Super Painful Pizza at Bricks in Chicago, anyway?

  33. Domino's Pizza isn't as bad as the invasion of Iraq. Therefore it's pragmatically realistic to order pizza from them.

    1. "Domino's Pizza isn't as bad as the invasion of Iraq."

      You sure about that?

    1. HIGHLY diaspointed in what they call food porn.

  34. OMG man that Pizza looks REALLY good, do want. Think I will order one now lol.


    1. You should change your name to tasteless-bot

    2. DON'T DO IT!!!!!!

  35. I'll just ignore the Nanny-state "calorie counts" and eat whatever the fuck I want and there's nothing anyone, not even the jug-headed Jesus in the White House, can do about it.

    Of course that won't help the businesses that have to spend their money on this bullshit rather than creating value for their customers, but we all know that "progressives" prefer bullshit over value any day of the week.

    1. this x a million.

      I think this entire exercise will have exactly NO impact on the "obesity epidemic". People will continue to eat what they want, no matter how much money is spent on "educating" the people about teh evil calories.

      It merely promotes the idea that something is being done... for the childrenz -- by punishing private enterprise.

  36. Dominoes made an annual profit of $79 million dollars last year. That will be a one year cost of $5 million for 4,497 stores. While $5 million is certainly a lot of money, I think it is important to put that number in perspective. Something that you never do in your reporting by the way. The benefit of nutritional information in my observations has been really good for people who care about that. My wife and I were in the weight watchers program and she is now a leader. Restaurants posting nutritional information makes eating out a much more enjoyable experience for people who are trying to diet. Quite frankly your position is bullshit.

    1. You must be very proud of your stupidity to display it here.

      1. That's it, I'm an ex-libertarian. You guys are all a bunch of morons.

  37. I can't believe what an incredible pile of snobs have accumulated here. No wonder libertarianism has no traction with ordinary folks.

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