Fogies Forbid Anyone to Think About Changing Medicare, Not Even for the Young'uns
It really doesn't matter how many times Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.) or supporters of his Medicare reform plan point out that people who are already old will be getting their big juicy benefits until they day the last Boomer dies in an expensive ICU hospital bed with an IV dripping liquid gold into her veins. The fogies—defined as folks who are already retired, or less than 10 years from retirement—remain committed to fighting the Ryan plan to the death.
Today from Pew Research Center for the People & the Press,
By a 51%-to-25% margin, adults ages 65 and older oppose changing Medicare into a program that would give future participants a credit toward purchasing private health insurance. Including all adults ages 50 and older, opposition remains just as strong (51% to 29%). And this opposition is intense: 42% of adults ages 50 and older strongly oppose this kind of change to Medicare, while only 19% strongly favor it. Adults younger than age 30 are the most likely to support changes to Medicare (46% favor).
Or, to put it graphically:
Note that it's not really a partisan divide. It's old-versus-young. Was Chris Buckley right about the coming Boomsday?
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Thank you! And remember, don't trust anyone over 30! And now, Peter Frampton!
+1000 Love that one!
+1,000
There's actually a rational reason for the fogies to think this way, network effects. As the 55 and younger crew turn 65 and go into the private insurance market rather than Medicare, fewer and fewer people will be on Medicare. This will make it easier for providers to drop Medicare coverage because one of the current benefits of Medicare, a large customer base, will slowly start to become less and less true.
You seriously overestimate the ability of anyone over the age of 65 to think rationally and critically about the implications of a policy change on a broader systemwide scale.
The reality is that the greediest generations and baby boomers have been practitioners of intergenerational theft and the self-absorbed baby boomers especially are so solipsistic that they care not for their posterity and view their offspring as nothing more than credit cards. Government has so polluted the actual meaning of raising children so that now one has kids for increased welfare bennies, tax write-offs, and a sucker to stick the $800/day pills habit to.
I'm not endorsing the logic behind the opinion, merely pointing out that there's a self-interested logic behind not wanting those younger than them to lose social security.
An way to test whether or not these views are due to logic or obstinance is to see how they would feel if Medicare was ended for some demographic that is young enough where the network effects wouldn't affect them, like those 35 years old and younger.
Your central point is accurate in regards to the self-interested reasons for opposing the plan. And admittedly its one I hadn't thought of. Although Medicare recepients would still be vastly preferable to Medicaid recepients. And it would be interesting to see if the reaction was different if you lowered the ages affected. It would also be interesting to see if that substantially skewed the unfavorability numbers for the 30-49 crowd using the same underlying logic.
For the most part, I don't think most seniors or soon to be seniors have thought it out in that great a detail. I think they've been duped into the Mediscare tactics in some degree and I think the larger narrative governing their reactions is that they believe that by removing the full Medicare bennies for the younger generations, those younger generations will be more apt to vote for candidates seeking to cut bennies for current beneficiaries.
I agree with you that seniors likely are less concerned about the network effect and more concerned about losing large numbers of other people receiving Medicare bennies. If the younger generations lose their Medicare bennies, they will be much more likely to gut them.
I am heartened by the fact that those under 50, by a very slight margin, favor, with those 18 to 29 most in favor.
Unfortunately, this may change as they age...
Come on, Katherine. Misrepresenting the Ryan plan is about the only thing that sticks for liberals in the post-Tea Party age.
An way to test whether or not these views are due to logic or obstinance is to see how they would feel if Medicare was ended for some demographic that is young enough where the network effects wouldn't affect them, like those 35 years old and younger.
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Piss off spambot
Do you also yell at the TV?
You should see me watch football. Yes, I yell at the TV.
I think they're scared - legitimately or not - that once this plan were to get enacted, the next step would be to start going after the old people's benefits. Slippery slope and all.
That and there are plenty of scumbag politicians who see misrepresenting this plan as a surefire vote-getting scheme.
This is what I've heard from people too. That as current beneficiaries die off, those on traditional Medicare will lose their political clout and then be thrown to the wolves.
A fitting end indeed
I hope that will be on PPV.
Instead we should let them be the first generation to rob their parents AND their children!
Do nothing at all, let the shit go completely bankrupt in 12 years or so, and then we can tell all the greedy old SOBs to go drop dead.
^^Winner^^
That'll teach those SOB's.
I oppose free universal healthcare, but I would strongly support free universal euthanasia services to anyone aged 62 and up. Not compulsory, but the option is there. I'd even be willing to offer some sort of inheritable death bennie to their offspring that increases the younger you decide to off yourself.
Practical solutions, such is the way of the monocle.
Logan's Run: Part II
The Wheelchair Race
Suicide booths!
Socialist! Old peole can pay for their own euthanasia. I'm pretty sure if there was a free market for euthanasia prices would be low and affordable.
I'm pretty sure that's "baked into the cake," per the old people's slang.
People 55 and up,maybe 60 and up,are the wealthest segment of society.But their wealth is in assets and intrest and savings so no one talks about them "paying their fair share".They are also the group that recieves the largest amout of money from the government in S.S. and Medicare.This system rewards the well to do.
All of you greedy people under the age of 50 are trying to steal from the old people who have payed into Social Security and want to turn it into a VOUCHER PROGRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my god, Bernie is after us!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....dded#at=25
Damn, that's some shitty production value right there.
I tried to warn you folks in an earlier thread.
Sanders refuses to confront the tough issues relating to Social Security. He refuses to confront the tough issues because . . . Sanders is chicken!
I went and visited my mother and the other old folks in my family in New Mexico. They were all about the Ryan hate. I laughed cruelly at them and told them that this was the best deal they would get.
I told them: "Otherwise it's bankruptcy in 10-15 years and then [bwa-hahahahahahahaha] SOYLENT GREEN for lot of you."
That's pretty much the way to pitch it.
You are on a train one way or another. You can be the caboose on the gravy train, the last generation to receive a payout exponentially larger in magnitude that what you paid in. Or you can be the first car on the train to Aushwitz, victims of a fiscal collapse brought about by your own unwillingness to let the generations that followed you create a moderately sustainable tweek to the entitlement system.
they don't believe it. I had the same conversation at a family wedding this weekend. they're convinced that it would be fine if the "rich paid their fair share."
Simply point out that we could annex every dollar of income in excess of $250k/year and still not cover this year's deficit, in fact, we'd still be half a trillion short.
The kulak hoarders and wreckers will still get the blame.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzfd_sNw2-Y
C-Blue, I take it you are already out of the will?
Those receiving public benefits already know we will have two classes of health care that will be hard to defend: 50+ will be so pissed about the private market's lack of coverage/cost and will demand sharing of the burden for those who made in under the ten year deadline.
Why are the people who voted for FDR and paved the way for transforming this country from a Democratic Republic to the USSA referred to as The Greatest Generation?
Fuck them and the greedy hippie Boomers they spawned.
Well, they weren't all bad. They were victims of their era. They weren't the original voters for FDR, they were drafted into an immensely costly war, and they had to watch shit like Ozzie and Harriet and Leave it to Beaver on their TVs.
But yeah, FUCK THE BOOMERS!
Exactly. Wasn't a liberal media type who coined the phrase "greatest generation"? Greatest was the Revolution generation. They walked it and talked it.
Tom Brokaw
The greatest generation gets to rot in old folks homes where the treatment is pretty much subhuman and paid for by medicaid. The boomers get to pay into it their whole lives, throw their parents into homes, and eventually get virtually nothing in return. Who says there is no justice.
Yep, not one baby boomer was eligible to vote for Goldwater in 1964. The "greatest generation" laughed in his face concerning reform of social security. And they guessed right - everyone of them will be safe from reform until their dying day. It's the later boomers that just may suffer when their kids and grandkids find they can no longer pay.
The complaint I hear is "we paid in for xxx years and now we deserve what is coming to us." Has anyone actuarily figured out if s.s. would be on firmer fiscal groud by calculating the present value of those pay-ins and annuitize the pay-outs based on, say, ten year T-bill rates?
of course they were supposed to die by 67 or 68
It's the later boomers that just may suffer when their kids and grandkids find they can no longer pay.
Talk about your optimists. I don't think the money will last nearly that long.
As a Boomer, I have to agree. We suck.
I actually hope for a mass die off of these wrinkled parasites from a confluence of bankruptcy and avian flu. Fuck these people.
Haven't read you before so hoping your "gold" in veins and other comments were meant in jest. Otherwise this mag would be well served to "retire" you and employ writers with a grasp of reality.
I think she was completely serious, and genuinely believes that people on Medicare are eligible to have a 24/7 gold solution IV drip. You better start a letter-writing campaign about this.
The collectivist group-think here is entertaining, in a sad, ironic way.
Ah yes, libertarians agreeing on small government = collectivist group-think.
Maybe the difference in opinion comes from the wisdom gained over the years of experience carefully gathered and analyzed in their long lives....
[ducks the barrage of debris flying his way]
I wonder the reason and the result.