A Dose of Depressing Vaccine Data

From The Washington Post:

In 2006 and 2007, France had an average of 40 measles cases per year. In the first five months of 2011, the country has recorded more than 10,000 infections, including 360 cases of severe measles pneumonia, 12 cases of encephalitis and six deaths.

Argh.

In case you're at work and can't watch the video, I'll sum it up for you: No, vaccines do not cause autism.

Read lots more on why getting vaccinated in the right thing to do here.

Comments

[Fire Tiger]

France? Really France??? Does anyone really care about France?????

[Jenny McCarthy]

In the first five months of 2011, the country has recorded more than 10,000 infections, including 360 cases of severe measles pneumonia, 12 cases of encephalitis and six deaths.

So long as one kid is spared the death sentence that is autism, it's worth it.

[WTF]

Although anyone who would take medical advice from Jenny McCarthy pretty much deserves what they get.

[Saro]

The children of anyone who would take medical advice from Jenny McCarthy will get what their parents deserve.

FTFY

[WTF]

Better, thanks.

[ClubMedSux]

Funny and sad at the same time, kind of like Juggalos.

[omg]

Actually you'd be surprised how popular this view is, even when faced with the actual evidence. I had one guy who told me the FDA was worth it if it saved even 1 person from a bad drug, and that the tens/hundreds of thousands it condemned to die by not releasing lifesaving drugs didn't matter.

[Episiarch]

Let's just look at it as diseases weeding out the kids whose parents are stupid enough to not vaccinate their kids. Evolution in action.

[Bill]

One big reason there are more autism cases is that people are waiting much longer and having children when they are older.

The other is that we are getting better at diagnosing it. Some mild cases might have been missed before and dismissed as a poor attention span or as someone being "slow".

[JW]

Other reasons are scope creep of the spectrum and that there is no objective test for autism.

[SugarFree]

Neurotypicalist scum!

[R C Dean]

Not to mention the subsidies raining down on autism diagnoses. And the way it gives parents a psychological crutch for their dysfunctional kid.

[JD]

Criteria widening (likely to get worse with the DSM revision), diagnostic substitution, and increased awareness.

[WTF]

One big reason there are more autism cases is that people are waiting much longer and having children when they are older.

Oh no, you can't state the obvious, because that implies that women's choices have actual consequences, and putting off child-bearing until they have established a career might have some negatives associated with it. Clearly you are a tool of the patriarchy.

[Suzerain]

Except autism rates increase with the age of either parent, so your random attempt to turn this into an attack on feminism is entirely nonsensical.

[WTF]

Not sure how you think that refutes the premise that putting off having kids increases the risk of autism .

[WTF]

Actually, advanced paternal age is associated with elevated autism risk only when the father is older and the mother is under 30. The study found that the incremental risk of having a child with autism increased by 18 percent -- nearly one fifth -- for every five-year increase in the mother's age. A 40-year-old woman's risk of having a child later diagnosed with autism was 50 percent greater than that of a woman between 25 and 29 years old.

[Apple]

"One big reason there are more autism cases is that people are waiting much longer and having children when they are older."

Not saying you're wrong, but has that correlation been found in the autism studies that have been done?

[JD]

Yes, but not enough to explain all of the increase in diagnosis.

[Apple]

Cool, thanks!

[rogue biologist]

see below.

[rogue biologist]

it's also because smart people are fucking each other. If you're a little bit aspie it's easier to find another aspie to bang genitals with, when in earlier eras you'd either be ostracized or assigned a mate, depending on social standing.

[rogue biologist]

fuck regressions to the mean. Harvey-Wienberg deviation, baby.

[SugarFree]

It would take millions of generations to finally wipe out credulity. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

[John Thacker]

Except they do put people who vaccinate their kids into jeopardy as well.

Vaccines don't give everyone immunity. In order to do so, they'd have to be strong enough that a significant number of people would catch the disease from the vaccine itself. So vaccines are generally weak enough that the vast majority, but not everyone, who is vaccinated gets protected. The people who don't get protection from the vaccine get protected by simply fewer people having the disease; i.e., herd immunity.

[robc]

Once again: Evolution in Action.

In addition to weeding out the kids with stupid parents, we weed out those who arent protected by the vaccine.

The last isnt as tauntastic, but its still there.

[Brandybuck]

But should the tiny percent of those who are not vaccinated grow ever so slightly, the herd immunity vanishes. Case in point: France.

[rogue biologist]

same is true if the population doesn't weed out the people for whom vaccines don't work even when administered.

[Jim]

What if I want my kid to have autism, because I'm willing to throw the dice on getting Rainman?

[Restoras]

Winner!

[fresno dan]

I thought you were going to say, "...throw the dice on getting a MSNBC commentator."

[Applederry]

I feel so sorry for autistic children, not just because of their condition, but because of their parents. It has become increasingly clear to me that the people who blame vaccines loathe their own children.

My uncle has a daughter of about 11 or 12 and he is absolutely convinced vaccines are the cause of her condition. Eventually I realized his ranting about vaccines wasn't just because he believed it, but because he NEEDED to believe it. You'll never get them to admit it, but he/they hate that they have children with this condition, but they can't direct that anger at their child (publicly at least) because of societal rules, but they redirect that anger towards anything that could show a hint of responsibility.

It's just sad.

[SugarFree]

I wonder what the physical abuse rates are. Of course, since there is little to no self-reporting by victims and the victims can be prone (or are assumed to be prone) to self-harm and clumsiness, I doubt you could build an accurate picture.

[ClubMedSux]

That's why I think it's the huckster doctors who bear the greatest moral culpability. I wish parents were strong enough to let science overcome their grief, but I can't totally blame them for wanting to find an answer. The pseudo-science book-shilling doctors, on the other hand, have no excuse except their own greed. I hope they have their own wing in Hell.

[jason]

they only allow 2 links, so this will take multiple posts... sorry about that...

but, #1 - vaccines don't work...

children who had the flu vaccine are 3x as likely to end up in the hospital for flu... http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.....172045.htm

& here we see 70% of new american mumps cases already had mumps vaccinations... http://www.naturalnews.com/028.....cines.html

so my first question about french measles is, what % were already vaccinated?

[highnumber]

I'll start with a link to a profile of someone whose life anti-vax nutjobs endanger with their idiocy:
http://shotofprevention.com/20.....-benjamin/

[jason]

you know, to me, this is the most important thread....

any of you pro-vaccine nuts have an answer for these articles?

[jason]

& this one is on pertussis, also showing a majority of cases were pre-vaccinated... http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/01/11/2377/

& here we have some more data - this was written by a doctor, to help you understand what's really going on... http://www.ggb.waeusa.com/Why_.....ccines.pdf

[WTF]

From the link:

Dr. Robert Strecker claimed that the department of defense DOD was given $10,000,000 in 1969 to create the AIDS virus to be used as a population-reducing[7] weapon against blacks.
Once produced, the vaccine was given in two locations. Smallpox vaccine containing HIV was given to 100,000,000 Africans in 1977. Over 2000 young white homosexual males in New York City were given Hepatitis B vaccine that contained HIV virus in 1978. This vaccine was given at New York City Blood Center.

Sure, sure it was...*smiles, nods head, backs away slowly*

[jason]

dr. ed kaplan, who was a professor of mine at yale, made a tremendously convincing argument that yes, indeed, the aids epidemic began with vaccinations in gay-friendly clinics in new york and san francisco... he has a pretty good gig at yale... pretty sure he only teaches grad students...

& he says aids itself is certainly both man-made and was deliberately released... he used actual dispersion data to debunk the green monkey theory...

so, he is something of an expert on the subject... are you?

http://www.ebay.com/ctg/Modeli.....570&_tab=1

[WTF]

Since you obviously care little for facts, I doubt you will pay much attention to logical fallacies such as Appeal to Authority.

[jason]

well, if you're suggesting a room full of yale mba's are not critical, you clearly haven't been there...

& kaplan's a f*cking genius... & he may be wrong on a bunch of things (for example, i believe he's a hardcore democrat), but the data was extremely compelling...

[WTF]

Hey, look, Ed Kaplan actually makes the cae for mass vaccination!

[jason]

in the case of a smallpox epidemic, sure...

but read what the article actually says... the goal is NOT mass vaccination... the goal is quarantine & selective vaccination "but vaccinate more broadly if the outbreak cannot be contained by these measures"...

nor is this article concerned with general public health - this is a crisis management paper...

in class, he also told us vaccinations during both smallpox & polio were to cover the genuine inability to stop the disease - & (like i learned in history) that the government made the decision to do something as opposed to appearing powerless... pure payola, both times... &, in both cases, vaccinations caused the spiked incidence of the diseases...

[Andrew S.]

I can find you a group of geologists who think the earth is flat, the sun rotates around the earth, and the earth is 6,000 years old.

There are nuts everywhere. There are even nuts who have managed to earn a PhD.

[WTF]

but read what the article actually says... the goal is NOT mass vaccination... the goal is quarantine & selective vaccination "but vaccinate more broadly if the outbreak cannot be contained by these measures"...

You just refuted your own assertion that vaccination is ineffective. This is what passes for logical argument at Yale these days?

[ClubMedSux]

Yeah, because Ivy League MBA's are the litmus test for scientific rigor.

[WTF]

Hey nutter, can you point out which of his papers claims that AIDS began with deliberate infection via vaccinations in gay clinics?

[jason]

it was part of a statistics lecture, but email him if you're interested...

[WTF]

So, your claim is that although he never put it in writing, he actually said the exact thing you are claiming, and we should believe you just because you say so. Sure.

[jason]

no, i'm asking you to ask the man, if it interests you...

i took his class in 1995... haven't had a vaccination since, btw...

and my very strong assumption is he's put it in writing a bunch of times - it was a heckuva lecture... but i'm not his ta... do a little work for yourself...

good luck getting into yale...

he's a hardcore aids activist... i'm sure he'd be happy to answer your questions...

[WTF]

but i'm not his ta... do a little work for yourself...

The person making the assertion has the obligation to provide the proof, dipshit. I thought Yale was supposed to be a decent school?

[Restoras]

Maybe not if it was doling out C's to W.

[Mensan]

I thought Yale was supposed to be a decent school?

It has that reputation, but getting into Yale (or any ivy league school) has much more to do with money and influence than intelligence.

[George W. Bush]

It has that reputation, but getting into Yale (or any ivy league school) has much more to do with money and influence than intelligence.

Bull shit. Your just jealous because you're diploma is from a state school.

[jason]

mensan, you're just wrong, at least for 95% of the graduate students... the best schools want the very best students... & yes, there are some plants, but very few, and if you can't handle the work, you will not last...

in my case, my parents sell insurance & i have a degree in english from a small liberal arts college... i had no connections, whatsoever...

but i worked hard & finished undergrad in 3 years with excellent grades, while being that guy on campus you probably resented; college president, lead in a couple plays, english honor society, social, service & professional music fraternities, rowed crew, TA in the english department, published, had a band, greek man of the year (yep)... that guy... & i crush standardized tests...

& i probably would not have made it into yale without all of that... because most of my classmates were far more impressive than me...

anyhow, your kids can do it, too, if they're smart enough... has a lot less to do with money or influence than you believe...

[Andrew S.]

"Hardcore AIDS activist"

He's not an HIV denialist, is he? Please tell me he isn't.

[jason]

moreover, the following questions are very simple, yet no pro-vaccine person seems to have an answer for them... why not?

http://preventdisease.com/news.....bate.shtml

& here's another good one...

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

these statistics show quite clearly that we only vaccinate against diseases that are already well on their way out... & that's because this is about payola, not health....
these diseases are no longer an issue...

[Andrew S.]

The Nine Questions have been answered, if you care to look. Ironically, just like every one of those questions can be answered with a simple Google search, you couldn't be bothered to do a simple Google search to find this:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicin.....e-answers/

[jason]

the nine answers are ridiculous & largely avoid key parts of the questions...

a NEUTRAL study would be one paid for by someone other than the pharmaceutical companies... governments make studies to fulfill previously agenda...

also, smallpox was NOT cured by vaccinations... most folks who died of smallpox HAD BEEN VACCINATED...

salk himself testified most polio cases in the 50s were from the vaccine...

so, which part of this is confusing?

[Episiarch]

There's nothing confusing about the fact that you're a conspiracy theorist loon. Nothing at all.

[WTF]

I think 'Jason' is really Jenny McCarthy. Hey 'Jason', tits or GTFO.

[Brandybuck]

Judge the data on its own merits instead of dismissing them because of the funding source.

And 99.99% of smallpox deaths occurred *BEFORE* its vaccine had been invented. Smallpox vaccine is derived from cowpox, so while one could get cowpox from the vaccine, it's impossible to get smallpox.

[jason]

real problem #2 - kids lives are being destroyed BY VACCINES, not rubella.... 18 deaths? how many kids should be made retarded to avoid 18 deaths, especially since you'll find those folks were likely sick to begin with...

there are over 1300 cases already lost, plus >5000 more cases pending (in federal vaccine court) just for kids with BRAIN DAMAGE.... quit throwing out the canard of autism not being a problem... i agree it generally is not (although there actually have been autism cases lost by the govt in fvc - http://rr-conspiracy-truth.blo.....-case.html)... however, BRAIN DAMAGE is a major and fairly common outcome, and what's the difference, really?

think about it... if over 6,000 kids of a total population of well under 60 million vaccinated are brain-damaged - that means 1 in 10,000 kids are brain damaged AND the parents connected it to a vaccination AND they found a good lawyer willing to take the case AND the lawyer was able to navigate the maze of getting onto the fvc docket... well, how many brain damaged kids had parents who never questioned if it was caused by vaccines? & how many didn't have the means or will to sue the government? & how many have bad lawyers who can't get through the process? so, we know the number of vaccine-related injuries is MUCH, MUCH HIGHER than just the 6300 established cases of brain damage...

or can you explain this one? seems hispanic kids, who get fewer vaccinations, have less developmental issues... http://www.gaia-health.com/art.....cine.shtml

[Andrew S.]

Chances of severe reaction to measles vaccine: at worst, 1 in a million. It's probably much more rare than that. Death rate from measles so far this year in France, as you see above: 6 in 10,000 (or 600 in 1 million). I know which risk I'm going to take.

I'm going to have to ask for a citation on a population of "less than 60 million vaccinated". But even IF I willing to accept that number, the risk is of the disease is still 6 times higher than the risk of the vaccine.

Finally, the Vaccination Court does not require proof that the vaccine caused the injury. More that *a* injury (on a specific list) happened in proximate time to the vaccine.

[jason]

Andrew... i encourage you to do your own math...

6300 known cases of brain damage...

that doesn't count parents who didn't make the connection...

or parents who didn't want to sue or didn't know how to sue...

or lawyers who sucked...

how many do you think there are of those?

& that also doesn't count other bad effects, which are MORE COMMON than brain damage... other sicknesses, seizures, increased asthma, hospitalization, etc.)...

plus, you may still get the disease you were vaccinated for...

so, do your own math... even if it's 100 million vaccinated (nope) & only those 6000 retarded kids (nope), that's a 16,667 to 1 shot of ending your kids life...

it is insanity to let this government put anything in your blood...

[jason]

i also want to mock your made-up stat...

chances of a severe reaction to a measles vaccine are at worst, "1 in a million"...

do you really believe a million nurses can give a million injections to a million people with 1 or 0 having an adverse reaction?

that's just retarded, dude... there is NOTHING you can inject into a million people without many adverse reactions...

or, please explain these...

http://vaccineresistancemovement.org/?page_id=8276

seriously, dude, you have no idea what you are talking about...

[Andrew S.]

That's completely what I said, except not.

Vaccine reactions are entirely common. My daughter had a 102 degree fever and was very crabby for a day after her MMR.

But that was it. It lasted a day. About 1 in 3,000 have seizures (due to fever), but febrile seizures, without any other issues, don't usually have any effect later in life.

What I said was the chance of a severe reaction, like brain damage, that can affect a child for life, is less than 1 in 1 million.

[jason]

cancer can affect you for life... asthma certainly does...

& we know of 6300 cases of brain damage...

so, even if you include EVERY american (the 60m # is an estimate of kids vaccinated 1998-2010, as they are the only ones currently in fvc...), that larger, 300 million number would yield brain damage in 1 per 50,000 folks in this country...

do you get that 1 in 50,000 americans is currently suing the government for brain damage caused by vaccines...

& how many don't know to sue?

so 1 in a million is a fantasy #... nowhere close... pretty sure the real number is between 1 in 30,000ish and 1 in 1000...

and even at 1 in 30,000... i'm not vaccinating my kids against anything short of a full-scale pandemic of bubonic plague...

[jason]

real problem #3 - payola... bigpharma has completely infiltrated our government... & once it's about money, real health goes out the window... our taxes pay for these national vaccinations, which do nothing but pay off bigpharma... & here are some recent, proven payoffs...

http://www.naturalnews.com/028.....cines.html
http://www.crossroad.to/articl.....-merck.htm

[JD]

So you don't want public health agencies or teh corpurashunz to do the research. You know anyone impartial with a few hundred thousand to blow on a study?

[jason]

yeah... academia...

& it shouldn't take hundreds of thousands of dollars... this is largely publicly available data...

you could make this the senior project for clusters of public policy students at the top state schools... then they could publish their results...

most schools avoid studies like this, however, because all large institutions in this country all play ball with bigpharma...

[Um Yeah...]

Since when does academia directly fund their own large scale scientific research projects on their own? In the large research university I attend, the research scientists have to get outside resources to fund any significant study. And where does that money come from? The federal government and teh corparshuns.

[jason]

that it is most often structured this way does not mean that it must be structured this way... & my point is this is a poor structure...

& you are correct (in repeating what i wrote) that currently, nearly all of the colleges are playing ball with the corporations... however, we, as a society, need to be calling them on this, because studies funded by folks who can profit from the product are inherently biased...

plus, there is nothing stopping real research from being done in the general pursuit of advanced degrees, and in fact, it is being done and is the basis of much of the anti-vax movement... we see the same issue in green tech... if a school wants to do something to look at wind or solar, donors connected to oil pay for a big study at the school that buys off the profs to study what they want studied, and to avoid letting anyone study something that might actually work...

so, we should get university professors off payrolls of corporations they supposedly study... seems like common sense to me...

[jason]

real problem #4 - really evil folks exist in our upper government... they actually spike these vaccinations with all sorts of things, and they have admitted - REPEATEDLY - that they use vaccines as a cover for human testing (tuskegee, mk-ultra, guatemala)... how many times do they have to admit they used vaccines to screw us (examples below) before you get that these folks are not worried about your health?

http://www.sciencebasedmedicin.....al-ethics/ (syphilis in guatemala)

& i love this one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr-gkMxCrF8 ... this is on 'funvax' which is a project to genetically modify fanatics.... this stuff does exist... there are people selling this stuff to government... so, there just is no denying that there are extremely questionable motives in play or that the government does and will use vaccines for many purposes unrelated to public health...

do not let them vaccinate anyone you care about...

[sevo]

"that they use vaccines as a cover for human testing (tuskegee, mk-ultra, guatemala)"

Jason, can you say "woo"?

[jason]

dude... those are real things the government has admitted...

& federal vaccine court has 6300 brain damaged kids... how many of them would have dies of measles?

[Andrew S.]

Given that 6 in 10,000 in France died of Measles (to use a first world example), and if we use your (untrue) number that 60 million people in the US are vaccinated (it's likely more than 4 times that, but whatever), at least 36,000 of them would have died.

(math!)

[jason]

i wonder, how do you know that 102 fever didn't kill off extremely important brain cells? you have NO IDEA if it only affected her for a day...

is asthma a major reaction?

how about cancer?

how do you explain the fact that hispanic kids have lower incidence of child development issues?

or more importantly, why do you skip the first posts - 70% of new american mumps cases were vaccinated...

pertussis was similar... get a flu shot & you are 3 x as likely to be hospitalized for flu...

where's your reply to those?

[Andrew S.]

My reply for all of those is a big

[CITATION NEEDED]

Show me evidence. And evidence is not comprised of anecdotes from screaming loons on conspiracy websites.

I know that 102 degree fever didn't kill off brain cells because 102 degree fevers don't do that in human beings who are over 6 months old. If they did, none of us would be typing on our computers right now, because we'd have lost too many brain cells to think coherently.

[WTF]

If they did, none of us would be typing on our computers right now, because we'd have lost too many brain cells to think coherently.
Obviously Jason is right, because Jason had a 102 degree fever and now look at him.

[Andrew S.]

And people like you, Jason, are why I feel sorry for the Autistic children of anti-vaccinationists. They act like their child is dead. Worse than dead. Their child is a burden to them. They're something terrible, something awful, something to be scared of.

As an autist myself (Aspergers), they can all go to hell.

[Restoras]

A+

[jason]

i used to work with best buddies and have done a fair amount of pro bono consulting to association for retarded citizens (ARC), so i take exception to your spin on me...

& that said, of course all children should be loved... i have two sons & if they were or become disabled i will love them every bit as much... & if they die of measles, i will certainly have to question my choices for the rest of my life...

however, i know parents of kids whose lives have ENDED due to vaccines... the kids are still breathing, but they don't interact... & they are not alive in the sense that you or I understand...

so, how dare the parents see the child is no longer functional? right? and that they had a happy healthy kid before should just be forgotten & accepted? couldn't be anyone's fault, right? well, aspbergers is known for lack of empathy, and you're nailing it...

finally, i think it's great you're out there with aspbergers, but aspbergers is a candy-f*cking cakewalk compared to actual brain damage... functionally, you're just difficult to get along with... (& welcome to the club...)

[ClubMedSux]

Jason's right... Just ask this scientician!

[Andrew S.]

Jason, you bring out the same tired arguments as every other anti-vaxxer. They've been debunked more times than I can count.

As for the Nine Questions, they've been answered. http://www.sciencebasedmedicin.....e-answers/

[WTF]

Don't confuse the nutter with sciency facts and stuff. It's all about the payola.

[Andrew S.]

I've been involved in the anti-anti-vax community long enough to know that. I post responses for others who might be reading and might actually believe something Jason posts.

[JW]

Jason is a anti-vac nutter? What gave it away?

[Aresen]

The tin foil hat was the first clue.

The multiple lengthy posts with an obviously prepared script was the second.

Then there was his goalie mask and all the sharp pointy things.

[highnumber]

And I'm the one who got this message?!

Your post (#2341189) has been marked as spam by a third-party spam filter.

Oy.

[Andrew S.]

If you want to see the face of the Anti-Vaccination movement, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded

That is a feature on the movement done by the Australian version of 60 Minutes. Featured is "Dr." Viera Schiebner, one of the "stars" of the Australian anti-vaccination movement. While she holds herself as a doctor, her area of specialty is... um... tiny fossils.

Also featured are the parents of an infant who died from whooping cough. Watch how Ms. Schiebner treats them.

Last month, the Australian government recommended that parents of children too young to be vaccinated keep them home to avoid potential exposure to whooping cough.

All because of nonsensical anti-vaccination advocacy.

[Brandybuck]

If you don't want to vaccinate your child, fine. Just keep them away from other children. The non-aggression principle does not give you the right to parade your disease vector around other children.

[Coeus]

Any child can be a disease vector. It doesn't always take, remember? How does that fit into your theory?

[Coeus]

Is there any room on this board for someone who gets vaccinated but still doesn't believe that the government should force you to get injections? You know, like an actual libertarian?

[ClubMedSux]

I think that's a bit specious. I'm sympathetic to your point, but the issue is much more complicated because of how herd immunity work. Long story short, if people pick and choose whether to vaccinate, vaccination doesn't work. If you're a libertarian, you accept one limited role for government is to protect the right to life, and some of us happen to feel that requiring a few shots that effectively rid the country of terrible childhood diseases is a legitimate exercise of such authority.

[Coeus]

The bottom line here is that, no matter how small, there is a risk of injury or death associated with vaccination. So you're saying that, for the greater good, people should be forced to gamble with their lives?

[Um Yeah...]

Yes, because your choice to not vaccinate because of the insanely small odds your child will be injured directly puts my children and others like him at a much more substantial risk of getting sick. If you want me to enforce that at gun point rather than through the government, I will...people can keep their unvaccinated kids the fuck away from my kid, one way or the other.

[Um Yeah...]

...and by "your" I'm not referring to you personally. I realize you are just asking a very legit question.

[Coeus]

If you want me to enforce that at gun point rather than through the government

These things are the same.

[jtuf]

Vaccinations are a good idea, but parents should get to choose them or not. Yeah, some parents choose the unhealthy path, but that's evolution.

[Um Yeah...]

To take it a step further, should those who know they have a severe, contagious disease (pick one) have the freedom to choose to walk around crowded public places? Or can the government force a quarantine? I realize the analogy is not perfect, but herd immunity and mass vaccination is effectively a large scale quarantine (e.g. smallpox, effectively eliminated).

[Stephanie Houde]

Dr. Julie Gerberding, head of Merk Vaccines, admits herself that there is high risk of autism when individuals predisposed with mitochondrial disorder (1 out of 50 is predisposed) get vaccinated.