Government Spending

Are We Broke Yet?: Michael Moore says no, reality begs to differ

Unlike Charlie Sheen, public-sector finances can't cure themselves simply by saying they're fixed.

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"The nation is not broke, my friends," opines guerilla filmmaker and amateur accountant Michael Moore. "Wisconsin is not broke. Saying that the country is broke is repeating a Big Lie."

Relax, America, it turns out that all that talk about local, state, and federal government being broke is just total B.S. or, as The New York Times puts it, "obfuscating nonsense…a scare tactic employed for political ends."

Moore is a bit skimpy on evidence, simply asserting that all we need to do to make things right is to shake down rich people who "have diverted…wealth into a deep well that sits on their well-guarded estates." The Times' case isn't much more compelling. "A country with a deficit is not necessarily any more 'broke' than a family with a mortgage or a college loan," says the paper of record. "And states have to balance their budgets."

OK, but what should you call a family or a country that spent about 20 percent of GDP for each of the past 60 years while raising less than 18 percent of GDP each year? And that is facing a massive balloon payment (let's call it entitlement spending on Medicare and Social Security) in the not-too-distant future? And has to keep borrowing money just to pay today's bills? And has no chance of increasing its take-home pay to cover its expenses?

It's a pretty safe bet that most of us would call that family or country broke. Or something along those lines.

Here are federal deficit projections from President Barack Obama's own proposed 2012 budget. He predicts that the red ink will continue to flow for as long he may be in office.

And what about the states? It's true that states have to balance their budgets each year by law. But that doesn't mean they don't spend more than they take in. Wisconsin alone is looking at a shortfall of $1.8 billion in the next year. Here's what the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities says about the mismatch between spending and revenue: "2012 is shaping up as states' most difficult budget year on record. Thus far some 45 states and the District of Columbia are projecting budget shortfalls totaling $125 billion for fiscal year 2012." Here's a picture that suggests broke is a pretty good description of state finances:

Then there's local government. The National League of Cities is estimating that aggregate revenue shortfalls between 2010 and 2012 will end up totaling somewhere between $56 billion and $83 billion.

As President Obama put it plainly in his State of the Union Address just a few weeks ago, "We have to confront the fact that our government spends more than it takes in. That is not sustainable."

So call us broke or call us flush with cash. Whatever. Unless you think our elected officials are like Charlie Sheen—able to cure our problems simply willing it—our fiscal reality isn't going to get better by pretending that we're not in deep trouble.

Maybe acknowledging that you've got a problem really is the first step to fixing it. If that's the case, we've still got a ways to go before we even start doing the hard work of cutting out of control spending at every level of government.

In the meantime, read "The 19 Percent: How to balance the budget without raising taxes," "Failed States: After a long spending binge, governors go begging for a handout. It won't be their last,"[*] and "How to Save Cleveland: Turning around America's dying cities is difficult, improbable, and necessary."

"Are we broke yet?" is written and produced by Meredith Bragg and Nick Gillespie. About 1.30 minutes long. Go to Reason.tv for downloadable versions of our videos and subscribe to our YouTube channel to receive automatic notifications when new material goes live.

[*] Fixed link.

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  1. When the poor Wisconsin educators are forced the inevitable turn to cannibalism I hope Michael Moore is still there….standing strong……..in solidarity.

    1. Cannibalism is not such a bad idea, I call it “human recycling,” just think how many starving kids in Africa we could feed with one Michael Moore.

      FUN FACTS ABOUT QADAFFI.
      http://libertarians4freedom.bl…..about.html

      1. Re: Gregory Smith,

        just think how many starving kids in Africa we could feed with one Michael Moore.

        Ha! That’s nothing. Imagine how many turbines could be turned with his hot air. Energy problem: Solved!!

        1. Is this best Smith to write of cannibalism?

      2. Why do you want to inflict food poisioning on starving kids in Africa?

        Don’t they have enough problems already?

          1. Ditto.

      3. “Unlike anti-war, pro-illegal alien hippie LIBERALterians,”

        In other words, they are not ACTUAL libertarians. I could imagine a site called “Vegans for Vegetables” that would state “Unlike anti-meat-eating, pro-breast-feeding hippie LIBERALvegans, we are free from PC.”

        1. Right, because according to you libertarians need to be politically correct, embrace illegal aliens, fight against “Islamophobia,” ridicule conservatives, excuse liberals, and behave themselves like progressives looking for less government.

          1. I honestly wonder what comments you are reading. I rarely see anybody here “excus[ing] liberals” except for the Chonys and lefty trolls. And how exactly does one “behave themselves like progressives looking for less government”? That’s like saying someone is an anarchist looking for a totalitarian dictatorship.

            1. Really? I see lots of “anti-war” views here. Tell me, is there a draft? Do we not have an all volunteer military? Are we being forced to pay war taxes? Are we being jailed for speaking against the government? I can understand being anti-war when FDR, Wilson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, and all the other progressive politicians were jailing people for their war views, but now? Give me a break.

              1. What does being anti-war have to do with anything in my previous post?

                1. Sorry, I probably clicked the wrong “reply to this.”

        2. Yes they are actual libertarians. They may not belong to the same libertarian faction as you, but not all of us agree on what military or immigration polices are implied by libertarian principles.

          Note, for instance, that David Friedman’s “The Machinery of Freedom” contains a chapter entitled “Is There a Libertarian Foreign Policy?”, which discusses the question at length. No one would ever feel the need to ask “Is there a libertarian censorship policy?” or “Is there a libertarian drug policy?”

          Not saying that your position is wrong, just that agreeing with them isn’t a test of whether one is or isn’t a libertarian. To continue in the same vein as your analogy: you’re attempting to elevate the criteria for being a vegan into the criteria for being a vegetarian, and dismissing someone as non-vegetarian because they consume dairy products.

          1. agreeing with them isn’t a test of whether one is or isn’t a libertarian

            That’s correct. Not having a consistent, coherent philosophy has its advantages. For instance, a “libertarian” may be both for and against property rights! For and against the right to life! For objectively defined laws and anarchy! “Libertarianism” is the Outback of political philosophy: No rules, just right.

            1. Show me a person who agrees with his party on every single issue on the party’s platform, and I’ll show you a mindless ideologue.

      4. Soylent Green is….delicious!

        1. Green waste

    2. Why would anybody bring Michael Moore into a conversation about anything? He’s fat, he’s ugly and he’s stupid.

  2. “The nation is not broke, my friends,” opines guerilla filmmaker and amateur accountant Michael Moore.

    It’s going to be OK, everyone. Fat people have arrived.

    1. Do you think he’s fat so that more people will identify with him?

      1. More union members and teamsters certainly will.

    2. MM is John McCain?

  3. Not that it is relevant, but I think you could feed a family of 4 off Moore’s carcass for a couple of weeks.

    1. If you include his wife, who is a fat-ass as well, you can feed an entire village.

      1. Thanks for that image!

        1. Did he say feed the village after watching a film of them fucking? No, I didn’t think so.

          1. Admit it though….the first thing you probably do after is raid the fridge.

      2. But then you have eaten your breeding stock.

      3. It takes a Michael Moore to feed a village.

    2. If you could collect all of His BS you could fertilize the entire midwest.

  4. “The nation is not broke, my friends,” opines guerilla filmmaker and amateur accountant Michael Moore.

    What the Fat Bastard means is that wealthy people are sitting in cash that can be plundered to caulk the budget gaps….

    …. and then….

    What?

    1. It was lavish welfare packaged given to the wealthy that caused much of the problem in the first place.

      1. somehow that sentence is supposed to make sence to tony

      2. Even if that’s true, doesn’t necessarily mean raising taxes on the super rich (a category that always goes curiously undefined in these debates) is an effective or desirable solution. They are notoriously good at minimizing their tax burden.

        Arguing over why we’re screwed, while useful to avoid future mistakes, is not helpful in solving the problems that are already there. And reeks of efforts to “win” at the expense of actual progress.

        1. They are notoriously good at minimizing their tax burden.

          That’s true. I’m not really into policy by threat or extortion, which is what so much of the apologetics for low tax rates amounts to. Maybe they’ll just move somewhere else! Better have the working class shoulder the burden… they can’t get away as easily.

          1. “That’s true. I’m not really into policy by threat or extortion”

            BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

          2. I don’t know how many times I have to tell you this Tony but the top 5% pay more taxes than the bottom 50% combined.

            http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/in…..70,00.html

          3. The working class will always shoulder the burden of government spending regardless of taxes on the rich.

      3. … by the Democrats, who were well-paid to do so.

      4. Fine, then raise taxes to your heart’s content. Then see if you’re able to extract more than 19.5% of GDP out of the taxpayers. You’ll find it difficult:

        Hauser’s Law.

      5. Yeah…and it took government to establish this program for the rich!

      6. Re: Tony,

        It was lavish welfare packaged [sic] given to the wealthy that [sic] caused much of the problem in the first place.

        Please, could you write in sentences? Subject and predicate; noun, verb, adjectives and/or adverbs?

        1. He’s an english lit. major which makes it all the more comical.

          1. Fuck you. I’m polite enough to excuse typos on a fucking blog. One letter misplaced. What’s inexcusable of course is OM’s pattern of lecturing others on grammar, only incorrectly, as above.

      7. No it wasn’t. Middle class entitlement programs make up 60% of government spending. Defense is another 25%. So 15% left for everything else.

        Nah, it wasn’t any of that, it the obscure, unnamed, unquanitified “lavish welfare package for the wealthy”.

        But maybe you mean the ONE-TIME TARP loan, of which only about $200 billion, or 5% of next years budget, is still outstanding?

        1. I’m pretty sure by ‘welfare package for the wealthy’ he means ‘not charging them higher taxes’.

          1. There’s no use. Tony has a thief’s mindset. In his mind, any money left over after taxes is a “gift” from the government. Hence, he can’t distinguish between welfare to someone who’s out of work and reduced taxes from someone’s paycheck.

            1. Sure I can. Unemployment benefits actually work to stimulate the economy and potentially reduce unemployment, thus removing their necessity. Tax cuts for the rich are practically non-stimulative.

              1. Because capital investments are totally non-stimulative.

              2. Hey Tony, are you Pelosi in drag? Idiot!

        2. Rescinding the Bush tax cuts would halve deficits through 2015 and cut them by a third through 2030. Nobody said they were everything, but they are certainly an easy way to fill a large part of the whole. I don’t find soaking the poor in order to keep those cuts to be morally acceptable, no matter which ridiculous “principle” you apply.

          1. Rescinding the Bush tax cuts would halve deficits through 2015 and cut them by a third through 2030.

            You notice you’re still running deficits, yes?

          2. What the hell is a third of inifnity billion worthless dollars?

          3. You do realize that rescinding the Bush tax cuts would RAISE the tax burden on the middle class don’t you?

            So really what you’re advocating is raising taxes on my groundskeeper and cook while I twirl my pencil mustache and adjust my monocle.

      8. Hey, Tony’s here. How ya’ doin’, Tony?

      9. Tony|3.7.11 @ 3:56PM|#
        “It was lavish welfare packaged given to the wealthy…”

        Tony|2.16.11 @ 1:11PM|#
        Actually I happened to be born into a well-off family…

        I think Tony is trying to tell us that he’s a welfare queen.

  5. OK, but what should you call a family or a country that spent about 20 percent of GDP for each of the past 60 years while raising less than 18 percent of GDP each year? And that is facing a massive balloon payment (let’s call it entitlement spending on Medicare and Social Security) in the not-too-distant future? And has to keep borrowing money just to pay today’s bills? And has no chance of increasing its take-home pay to cover its expenses?

    A family that has to kill one or two of its “kids”, i.e. old folks.

  6. we’re not broke, we’re just big boned.

  7. This is what I like about Teh Reason?; the ride.

    You never know where the conversation is going, today it’s zombies and cannibalism. 🙂

  8. OK, but what should you call a family or a country that spent about 20 percent of GDP for each of the past 60 years while raising less than 18 percent of GDP each year?

    A deadbeat cousin always borrowing money from you to pay off his gambling debts “this one last time.”

  9. I’d say, let’s go after his wealth.

    1. He only has 50 million or so, so he’s not one of those uber wealthy. Damn that capitalism.

  10. OMB is claiming 4 years of surplus? Wow, considering Treasury Dept claims we never had one (since the early 50s), that is pretty ballsy.

    1. The smallest annual deficit during that chart’s time frame was $17.9B.

      And that is using crappy accounting. Using GAAP it would be insane.

  11. I’m not rich. I wear a baseball cap. Rich people don’t wear baseball caps.

    1. Also, you are a Democrat. And everyone knows the Democrats stand for the little guy, while Republicans are the party of The Rich.

    2. BS…..what about Spielberg….or his cheaper Mexican equivalent.

      1. ?Senor Spielbergo?

    3. Of course, nobody who wears a baseball cap is rich.

      Jay-Z: $450 million
      Russell Simmons: $325 million
      Alex Rodriguez: $300 million
      Derek Jeter: $125 million
      CC Sabathia: $40 million

  12. Out of curiousity… let’s say we confiscated all the wealth of the top 10% of tax payers. How much cash would that be?

    1. Less than it would be if it stayed in their hands, for the same reason that about-to-be confiscated real property is worth less to people facing eminent domain proceedings.

    2. Dunno about the top 10%, but the combined wealth of the Forbes 400 (400 highest net worths in US) is about $1 trillion.

      Not even enough to fix this year’s deficit, let alone the entire debt.

      1. Of course, since the vast majority of that net worth is in the form of investment capital, before you could even get to that $1 trillion, they’d have to sell it all off to foreign investors.

        But who really cares if the Chinese own America! Tax the rich, damnit!

    3. Dunno, but if they really want their wealth in the form of cash, they had better leave some rich people standing or there won’t be a way to convert all those assets to cash.

      Best to just harvest only as many rich people as you need this year, and leave the rest for later.

    4. If you took all the monetary capital of the top 1% (the “super rich” who we’re supposed to raise taxes on), and redistributed to everybody equally, it would amount to a one-time, $2,000 payout per person.

      In other words, not enough for a pony.

      1. We need better rich people.

      2. Man…2000 bones would get me a pretty good hooker, or 1 tenth of a new car. That’s definitely worth stealing the wealth of those greedy bastards who probably won’t be angry or spiteful in the least. We might as well be redistributing rich people’s furniture so each of us can hold onto 1/100th of an antique table leg.

    5. I keep asking our progressive friends this question, and if they think it will be enough. The response is usually clouds of bullshit about how redistributing it will magically create wealth.

  13. Didn’t the left make an enormous deal about deficit spending being bad? What’s different today?

    And they were right, except that their idea of a solution was a 100% tax rate.

    1. What’s different today?

      Ahem.

      Right. People.

      1. You mean the Republicans in the House? Are they the right people?

        1. That’s only because stupid people voted for them. And because of Fox News. And Citizens United.

          1. This has something to do with bagged versus loose-leaf tea, correct?

  14. “Moore is a bit skimpy on evidence, simply asserting that all we need to do to make things right is to shake down rich people who “have diverted…wealth into a deep well that sits on their well-guarded estates.”

    Fine we can start with shaking down Moore himself.

  15. This is why you Gabachos need to bring in more WABs. Instead of keeping them out, we need to find ways to keep them in. And stop them from sending money back to their pinche relatives.

  16. Moore is a bit skimpy on evidence, simply asserting that all we need to do to make things right is to shake down rich people who “have diverted…wealth into a deep well that sits on their well-guarded estates.”

    Like you, fatboy?

    1. Like you, fatboy?

      As I echo Mr. Episiarch sentiments, I say “Pony Up!”

      I’m not sure which fat Utilitarian fuck I despise more, Rob Reiner or Micheal Moore.

      1. You’re obsessed with fat-weird

        1. You’re composed of fat – odd

  17. Senator Ensign Says He Will Not Run Again

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com…..rough-this

    But if he’s not going to run how is he going to meet another mistress?

    1. “Ensign, whose fast-rising political career was derailed after he admitted to an affair with a campaign aide whose husband served as his deputy chief of staff, said that a pending Senate ethics investigation into his conduct had “zero effect” on the decision not to run for a third term.

      Ensign allegedly helped the aide’s husband find a new job, and Ensign’s parents paid the couple $96,000.”

      See, compassionate conservatism does exist!

      1. Re: MNG,

        Ensign, whose fast-rising political career was derailed after he admitted to an affair with a campaign aide whose husband served as his deputy chief of staff, said that a pending Senate ethics investigation into his conduct had ‘zero effect’ on the decision not to run for a third term.”

        Is it me or is American politics looking more and more like ancient Rome?

        1. American politics has always looked like ancient Rome. Why do you think D.C. is all pillars and white marble?

        2. Wait until the president appoints his favorite horse to the senate.

          Incitatus for Majority Leader!

          1. I see you’ve never seen Senator Kerry.

            1. He’s more like a fucked up Herman Munster.

              1. I thought that was Teresa?

          2. That would probably be an improvement at this point.

    2. Maybe his wife can recruit him one from prison.

  18. So if I wear a baseball cap will I also be immune from the proletarian uprising ?

      1. Philistine. Always link to the Lego version.

        1. Seems to lack enough Shatner.

          1. Well, what *does* have enough Shatner?

            1. Aside from TOS, nothing. I still want him to be PM.

      2. Well, what else could I do?
        I said, “i’ll see what I can do.”

    1. Cool! I’ll wear my Molon Labe hat. It’ll match the ARs I’ll be shooting the proles with.

  19. Here’s ya go Mikey:

    Gifts to the United States
    U.S. Department of the Treasury
    Credit Accounting Branch
    3700 East-West Highway, Room 622D
    Hyattsville, MD 20782

    Don’t forget to tip your agent.

    1. I’ve used that quite often, too, in letters to the editor, etc. Never fails to get a rise along the lines of
      “Well, I’ll do it when everyone has to do it.” Jesus wept.

      1. Pretty much confirms PJ O’Rourke’s observation that people who support compulsory government charity are only willing to do good with their own money when a gun is held to their head.

  20. What’s this “we”? Or “the states”? It’s the GOVERNMENTS that are broke. THEY are experiencing budget shortfalls. THEY aren’t “fine.” Let’s maintain that distinction, please. Michael Moore is right when he says the COUNTRY is not broke. But by failing to distinguish (in the full quote I heard recently), he lets the government lay claim to as much of the country’s money as it wants?potentially all of it. After all, it’s all “ours.”

    1. I think that’s pretty much what he was proposing….

      “Those guys over there, they’ve got OUR MONEY! Let’s go take it from them!”

      1. Not only that, he seems to think the wealth of the rich is in giant vaults, like Scrooge McDuck’s, just sitting around and not doing anything.

  21. It’s just like my Opa never said: you meet me in a locked room with all your gold on you, and I’ll come with a loaded gun . . . and we’ll see who walks out with the gold and the gun.

    I guess Moore’s old school that way.

  22. Michael Moore is correct when he says the U.S. government isn’t broke. Simply raise taxes to the point where everyone attains the glorious state of wealth typical in Moore’s beloved Cuba, and the government will be rolling in dough. At least long enough to get Obama reelected.

    1. The total debt is only a little more than 97% of GDP.

      Solution:
      1. Eliminate all tax credits and deductions.
      2. Raise all income tax rates to 98%.
      3. Surplus!

      There’s absolutely no way it won’t work! < /sarcasm >

  23. Michael Moore’s stomach was quoted as saying, “feed me…feeeeed meh”.

  24. Moore is a bit skimpy on evidence, simply asserting that all we need to do to make things right is to shake down rich people who “have diverted…wealth into a deep well that sits on their well-guarded estates.”

    The last time we heard crap like this, it was Lenin talking about the Kulaks.

  25. “Fuck the Rich. They don’t pay there fair share. They need us to buy there shit so why shouldn’t we take what’s fair? They’ve also been working since the 70s to make us all debt slaves by stagnating our wages and giving us credit cards. And the government should also protect us from corporations who would sell us rat poison if they could.”

    These are just a few of the things that my government professor lectures us on when debating taxation, the proper role of government, and issues like Wisconsin. I know she’s full of shit, but how can I respond? I can’t get a word in edgewise.

    1. “giving us credit cards.”

      yeah, start there. Those damned banks have been forcing credit on us for DECADES, right? It has absolutely nothing to do with our obsession with material objects!

    2. Personally, I’d just STFU to keep from being downgraded for thoughtcrime. You’re not going to change her mind — the best you could hope for is to enlighten your fellow students, but it’s ultimately up to them to see through her class war bullshit, or not. Srsly.

    3. Dude, I would totally drop this class.

      1. Nah, I’m satisfied knowing that I’ve escaped that kind of brainwashing (thank God for my libertarian AP English teacher in high school). But I was tempted after she made us watch the documentary “The Corporation” featuring Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky among others.

        1. how about not confronting her directly, but wait for a student to say something more or less in line with her bullshit and then call the student out on it. this way you aren’t seen as directly challenging her in front of the plebes. i hated college. it was like being surrounded by a bunch of baby birds with their mouths open, waiting for mama bird to shovel in the shit.

        2. I avoided professors like that. Some seriously stupid things get passed off as material worthy of being taught in a college course. The humanities aren’t safe from activists like this, and it’s a shame.

        3. This reminds me of the time I took on a whole class in history discussion arguing for reparations. According to them, my immigrant father (plus any non-black immigrants from the past 200 years), deserved to be fleeced for sins facilitated by state and federal governments long since buried. It was like standing up to an angry tide, no matter how right you are, 25 people calling you a racist is impossible to withstand for long. Luckily, class ended and I learned an important thing: majorities are often full of violent hate-filled irrational fucks.

    4. “Fuck the Rich. They don’t pay there fair share. They need us to buy there shit so why shouldn’t we take what’s fair? They’ve also been working since the 70s to make us all debt slaves by stagnating our wages and giving us credit cards. And the government should also protect us from corporations who would sell us rat poison if they could.”

      These are just a few of the things that my government professor lectures us on when debating taxation, the proper role of government, and issues like Wisconsin. I know she’s full of shit, but how can I respond? I can’t get a word in edgewise.

      Don’t bother. If she won’t allow you to even respond, then she has no interest in a debate/discussion. Plus, she is on a special level of stupid.

    5. Well, first gird your loins with a nice kilt. Then paint your face blue and white. Attend class, raise a sword above your head, and scream, “FREEEE-DOOOM!” Then take your seat.

      That won’t work, either, but it will get her attention more than facts, logic, or anything else will.

    6. And the government should also protect us from corporations who would sell us rat poison if they could.”

      Well this is a relief….for it was rat poison that I was seeking!

      Corporations….is there nothing they can’t do?

      1. Isn’t fluoride a rat poison?

        1. Isn’t fluoride a rat poison?

          Yes.

          1. Yeah, but your teeth…they’re so white!

            1. My God, I’ve been using fluoride in my mouth for decades!

              1. No rats in there….see it’s working.

                1. Well, to be fair, I can’t argue with that.

        2. Hell, vitamin D3 is a rat poison, if taken in sufficient quantities.

          1. Jesus, what’s up with these rat-fucking corporations?

          2. Vitamins A, D, E, and K are all poisons in excessive amounts.

    7. Start by forming a campus chapter of Students for Liberty.

    8. Fucking logic, how does that work?

    9. All duly noted. Hopefully the rest of the class picks up the difference between the two of us in that I always answer calmly and slowly while she doesn’t even bother to hide her moral outrage over every little issue.

    10. “stagnating our wages”

      Don’t let the liars get away with this one, either.

      For the facts:

      http://bit.ly/eskt9C

    11. They need us to buy there shit so why shouldn’t we take what’s fair?

      Response: “Tell me, Herr Dokterprofesser, why not exercise some restraint and not buy their shit?”

      Dumbshit Academic’s Response: “THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO PROTECT ME FROM MY OWN LACK OF SELF-CONTROL!!”

      Seriously, just go up to this dumb bitch and slap her. She’s obviously too far gone to be persuaded by any sort of logic.

      1. “They need us to buy there shit so why shouldn’t we take what’s fair?”

        This argument confuses me. So… someone makes a product, sells it to you at a price that you agree to, yet still owes you something?

        Also, is there something wrong with buying rat poison from a corporation? Personally, I like to go all out when it comes to killing the little bastards. I’ve got poison AND traps.

  26. He could put a half inch of water in the bathtub and it would overflow when he plopped his crapulous girth into it.

  27. Im confused why any of you are fighting this.

    His point is the rich are not picking up the slack. It is proven that these tax cuts (both local and national) are some of the largest to the deficient. ( look up the bush tax cuts)
    and i think waiting 10 years for the money to finaly “trickle down ” means its not going to happen.

    In Wisconsin they just passed 6 million in tax breaks to the rich…that’s 6 million in taxes the state wont get.
    Stop taking sides with the super rich. in the end they will always be out on their yachts while they always leave you on the beach.

    1. Yes, they just passed $6 million in tax cuts in Wisconsin.

      The only problem is that the budget deficit is $137 million.

      The problem with people who agree with Moore is that they are unable to do basic math.

      1. Actually there is no deficit yet. that is a predicted defect. look it up. and I live in madison WI so trust me, I hear all sides every day.

        1. So all that needs to happen is unicorns & rainbows? Magically Wisconsin’s economy rebounds to beyond the peak of the bubble, tax revenues are through the roof, and the state grows its way out of both the short term deficit AND the long term pension crisis?

          HOORAY! CAKE FOR EVERYONE!

          1. “Oh Sky Cake, why do you have to be so delicious!”

        2. gambotron|3.7.11 @ 4:31PM|#
          “Actually there is no deficit yet.”

          Seems not everyone agrees:
          “State ends 2008-2010 fiscal year with $2.7B budget deficit”, Sunday, January 17, 2010.
          http://badgerherald.com/news/2…..8-2010.php

          1. Nooooooooo, that was LAST YEAR…we don’t want to argue and bicker about the past, we want to look towards the future!

        3. Actually there is no deficit yet. that is a predicted defect. look it up. and I live in madison WI so trust me, I hear all sides every day.

          LOL at this. Another dumbass college student trying to pretend they know something other than how to fight off a hangover. Even Ezra Klein corrected himself and admitted that the deficit was in place before Walker took office.

          1. This is the proper way to deal with problems. Pretend you are smarter then everyone, and claim the problem does not exist.

        4. “I live in madison WI so trust me, I hear all sides every day.”

          All sides? So you get the socialist AND the communist versions?

    2. In Wisconsin they just passed 6 million in tax breaks to the rich…that’s 6 million in taxes the state wont get.

      Feature, not a bug.

      His point is the rich are not picking up the slack.

      What is this “slack” and why is their responsibility? Why isn’t it yours?

      i think waiting 10 years for the money to finaly “trickle down ” means its not going to happen.

      How’s that “trickle-up” coming? Got that free pony yet?

      1. when there was a middle class and every job wasn’t shipped over seas. it worked very well actually.

        1. I was wondering how I ended up in Jakarta making tube socks.

          1. im making wigs in mexico.

            1. gambotron|3.7.11 @ 4:41PM|#
              “im making wigs in mexico.”

              ‘Highest and best use’ wins again!

          2. Someone had to have the decency to stop putting those yellow and blue stripes on the top of them.

        2. I don’t recall which alternate timeline it was that FDR said “A chicken in every pot, and a pony in every yard”.

          The real question is, how did you get from that timeline to this one?

          1. FDR actually would go and arrest CEOs that wouldn’t pay the taxes that they didn’t agree with.

            “During the war, the well-known retailer and manufacturer Montgomery Ward had supplied the Allies with everything from tractors to auto parts to workmen’s clothing–items deemed as important to the war effort as bullets and ships. However, Montgomery Ward Chairman Sewell Avery refused to comply with the terms of three different collective bargaining agreements with the United Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union hammered out between 1943 and 1944. In April 1944, after Sewell refused a second board order, Roosevelt called out the Army National Guard to seize the company’s main plant in Chicago. Sewell himself had to be carried out of his office by National Guard troops. By December of that year, Roosevelt was fed up with Sewell’s obstinacy and disrespect for the government’s authority. (The uber-capitalist Sewell’s favorite insult was to call someone a “New Dealer”–a direct reference to Roosevelt’s Depression-era policies.) On December 27, Roosevelt ordered the secretary of war to seize Montgomery Ward’s plants and facilities in New York, Michigan, California, Illinois, Colorado and Oregon.

            1. gambotron|3.7.11 @ 4:40PM|#
              “FDR actually would go and arrest CEOs that wouldn’t pay the taxes that they didn’t agree with.”

              Did you read the rant you copied?
              What color is the sun your planet revolves around?

              1. The sun is whatever color the collective decides it is.

                1. Is a Gambotron some kind of cyborg shrimp?

                  1. I am the internet

              2. However, Montgomery Ward Chairman Sewell Avery refused to comply with the terms of three different collective bargaining agreements with the United Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union hammered out between 1943 and 1944.

                The whole thing in Wisconsin is over collective bargaining.

                I am Hollywood

              3. However, Montgomery Ward Chairman Sewell Avery refused to comply with the terms of three different collective bargaining agreements with the United Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union hammered out between 1943 and 1944.

                The whole thing in Wisconsin is over collective bargaining.

                I am Hollywood

                1. Even President Franklin Roosevelt, a friend of private-sector unionism, drew a line when it came to government workers: “Meticulous attention,” the president insisted in 1937, “should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government?.The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.”

                  you kind of walked right into that one.

                2. “The whole thing in Wisconsin is over collective bargaining.”

                  No, the whole thing is that you don’t know what you’re posting about, and are willing to change the subject when you’re busted.

            2. I am FDR of Borg. Lower your Constitution and surrender your property rights. Your life as you have known it is now over. Your property, wealth, and intellectual skills will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

            3. Plagiarized from the History.com.

        3. Yeah, i really miss the middle class.

          RIP

        4. Ah yes, this old jizz rag of an argument.
          You do realize that raising taxes and increasing unionization is the opposite of helping in this situation?
          I didn’t think so.

        5. when there was a middle class and every job wasn’t shipped over seas. it worked very well actually.

          There is still a middle class, but it’s comprised primarily of public sector workers and retired public sector workers. Unfortunately they do not pay taxes – they merely give their employers a rebate of their salaries and/or pensions.

    3. Near the bottom of the article are a bunch of orange links. Do us all a favor. Click each of them, then read those articles all the way through. Every one of them. Then come back and join the conversation.

      1. The truth is in the past 10 years the united states deficit has almost doubled ( most being through 2001 and 2009). good example is in Iraq they have literally lost track of like 700 million dollars at a time. I hope you also go on those blogs to argue about that. because that wasted money is also….drum roll…your tax dollars! and that’s just the tip of whats really wasting out money in this country. trust me, its not the union works and the teachers. I am fully aware of whats going on with out ready the orange little links.

        1. “trust me, its not the union works and the teachers.”

          No, I won’t ‘trust you’. Back your claims of shut up.

          1. 2 wars and the housing crises.

            1. gambotron|3.7.11 @ 4:53PM|#
              “2 wars and the housing crises”

              In other words, you’re a rambling idiot.
              Do you even know what constitutes evidence?

              1. Some commentators blame recent legislation ? the stimulus bill and the financial rescues ? for today’s record deficits. Yet those costs pale next to other policies enacted since 2001 that have swollen the deficit. Those other policies may be less conspicuous now, because many were enacted years ago and they have long since been absorbed into CBO’s and other organizations’ budget projections.

                Just two policies dating from the Bush Administration ? tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ? accounted for over $500 billion of the deficit in 2009 and will account for almost $7 trillion in deficits in 2009 through 2019, including the associated debt-service costs. [6] (The prescription drug benefit enacted in 2003 accounts for further substantial increases in deficits and debt, which we are unable to quantify due to data limitations.) These impacts easily dwarf the stimulus and financial rescues. Furthermore, unlike those temporary costs, these inherited policies (especially the tax cuts and the drug benefit) do not fade away as the economy recovers (see Figure 1).

                Without the economic downturn and the fiscal policies of the previous Administration, the budget would be roughly in balance over the next decade. That would have put the nation on a much sounder footing to address the demographic challenges and the cost pressures in health care that darken the long-run fiscal outlook.

                1. Oh, so it’s all Bush’s fault! Well it all makes so much more sense now.

                  P.S. Do you have any original thoughts, or would you like to plagiarize Kathy Ruffing and James R. Horney some more?

              2. that’s the second piece of evidence. So….show me the one where teachers are bankrupting this country?

                1. gambotron|3.7.11 @ 5:45PM|#
                  “that’s the second piece of evidence. So….”
                  No, anonymous claims /= “evidence”; try again.
                  …………………….

                  “show me the one where teachers are bankrupting this country?”

                  “Unless you’ve been pulling a Rip Van Winkle for the past few years, you know that your state is more busted than Larry Craig in an airport toilet.[…]
                  One of the main drivers of this sorry state of affairs is the massive disparity between public-sector and private-sector compensation, especially when it comes to benefits such as pensions….”
                  https://reason.com/blog/2010/08…..ate-is-bro

                  1. It’s not an anonymous claim. He plagiarized it directly from the “non-partisan” think tank, Center on Budget Policy and Priorities.

        2. I hope you also go on those blogs to argue about that.

          Website Search Boxes, how the fuck do they work?

    4. True, the ultra-rich are always going to be able to protect their wealth by whatever means necessary. Which means that confiscatory douches like MM are going to go for the merely rich, who as a group can protect at least some of their wealth by buying politicians.

      Which leaves the middle classes (taxing the poor is pointless). So ultimately you end up killing the middle classes, leaving only the poor and the rich, thus killing the American dream.

      There are four ways out of the trailer park/ghetto: crime, athletics, entertainment and education + hard work. When you eliminate the middle class you eliminate hope.

    5. gmabotron|3.7.11 @ 4:20PM|#
      “…It is proven that these tax cuts (both local and national) are some of the largest to the deficient. ( look up the bush tax cuts)”

      First, try to make that an actual sentence.
      Secondly, *you* ‘look it up’ and back your claim, or shut up.

        1. gambotron|3.7.11 @ 4:54PM|#
          http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02671.html

          You idiot!
          That’s an opinion piece about whether the tax rates should or should not remain.
          It says *nothing* about ‘It is proven that these tax cuts (both local and national) are some of the largest to the deficient. ( look up the bush tax cuts)’

          1. Easy Ren.

            That is about the myths.
            Here you go buddy

            Some commentators blame recent legislation ? the stimulus bill and the financial rescues ? for today’s record deficits. Yet those costs pale next to other policies enacted since 2001 that have swollen the deficit. Those other policies may be less conspicuous now, because many were enacted years ago and they have long since been absorbed into CBO’s and other organizations’ budget projections.

            Just two policies dating from the Bush Administration ? tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ? accounted for over $500 billion of the deficit in 2009 and will account for almost $7 trillion in deficits in 2009 through 2019, including the associated debt-service costs. [6] (The prescription drug benefit enacted in 2003 accounts for further substantial increases in deficits and debt, which we are unable to quantify due to data limitations.) These impacts easily dwarf the stimulus and financial rescues. Furthermore, unlike those temporary costs, these inherited policies (especially the tax cuts and the drug benefit) do not fade away as the economy recovers (see Figure 1).

            Without the economic downturn and the fiscal policies of the previous Administration, the budget would be roughly in balance over the next decade. That would have put the nation on a much sounder footing to address the demographic challenges and the cost pressures in health care that darken the long-run fiscal outlook.

            1. Care to give a link so we can see where this comes from?

              I find otherwise:
              “The Cost Of War: $136 Billion In 2009”
              http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..4018.shtml
              “I’ve analyzed CBO’s 28 subsequent budget baseline updates since January 2001. These updates reveal that the much-maligned Bush tax cuts, at $1.7 trillion, caused just 14% of the swing from projected surpluses to actual deficits (and that is according to a “static” analysis, excluding any revenues recovered from faster economic growth induced by the cuts).”
              http://online.wsj.com/article/…..99046.html

              1. “Care to give a link so we can see where this comes from?”

                I’ll help out since dumbasstron seems to have a problem with citing sources.

                http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

            2. BTW, you’re also making the presumption that people keeping their own money is somehow “causing the deficit”.
              Hint; spending is “causing the deficit”.

    6. that’s 6 million in taxes the state wont get

      I like how you imply that it was the state’s all along and somehow they are getting robbed. Winning!

    7. His point is garbage. Didn’t he just sue Harvey Weinstein for $3 million a week or two ago? Moore ought to be a prop in his own speech: see this greedy asshole living in a big mansion who decided he didn’t have enough and greedily sued his past financiers. He makes millions on a film and that’s not enough?

    8. It is proven that these tax cuts (both local and national) are some of the largest to the deficient.

      To the what, now…?

    9. “Stop taking sides with the super rich. in the end they will always be out on their yachts while they always leave you on the beach”

      Concern troll is wants a ride with the people he hates. And he hates them for it.

  28. Michael Moore is the poster boy for self-hating hypocrites. How dumb do you have to be to not see that this dickhole is completely full of shit? I guess liberals are that dumb. Oh, well.

  29. So did you calculate all of the tax money we should be collecting from the rich for income they have stashed overseas, and is it really necessary to give oil depletion deductions, shouldn’t the rich either donate their excess gains to benefit the country in education and other meaningful national programs. If a person making $20,000 pays a percentage of tax the equivalent “burden” (not per cent) should be placed on the rich. That is the part of the message that seems to get loss. Most of the billionaires are really no longer Americans, they have their wealth spread out all over the world and therefore no longer have any real loyalty to this country.

    1. excess

      You keep using that word.

      1. Do I have excess? Because if I do, I’m not giving it “back.”

        1. That’s only because you haven’t paid your fair share.

          Share. NOW.

          1. No.

            1. You just wait until your father gets home. You’re going to wish you had paid the marginal rate.

    2. “no longer have any real loyalty to this country”

      And why would that be?

  30. A country with a deficit is not necessarily any more “broke” than a family with a mortgage or a college loan.

    That’s some funny shit. Right now about 45% of my take-home pay goes to my mortgage and my student loans. How much of the federal government’s “income” goes to paying down ITS debts?

    1. As I said in the other thread, its only an apt analogy if the federal deficit gets smaller every month due to principle payments.

    2. Also, you at least get some tangible benefit from your debt, a college education and a house. One of those increases your earning potential making more likely you can pay that debt down and the other is one time loan that also acts as an investment that could pay future dividends.
      I have yet to see what the US gets for its enourmouse debt and it this point it seems evident that that it is not an investment of any sort.

      1. One of those increases your earning potential

        Unless it’s in the humanities–then the degree really doesn’t count for shit.

  31. That’s weird, you guys are saying the total opposite of what the lefty sites like BoingBoing and John Stewart are saying. This is really just a bunch of astroturfing by the Koch-topus minions and all we really need to do is keep on wishing real hard and tax the wealthy plutocrats and sooner or later every public teacher out there will be earning the millions of dollars they so obviously deserve.

    Its almost tragic to read the comments that, in the face of cold, hard, budgetary facts, always turn into name calling or slander attacks. It’s sorta like the Republicans saying they *know* we need to start making painful cuts to bloated agencies…but not that one. Or that one. Not that one either.

    All of them seem to be missing the added lesson that if public unions can paralyze a government when their union decides, it makes it increasingly difficult to ever avoid a confrontation with them. Its easier just to pay them off.

  32. Isn’t this the guy who was complaining about GM not giving the workers enough money/jobs. How’s that working out for you Micheal?

  33. he’s right. The governments at state and federal levels are no where near broke. Revenues are at or near all time highs.

    They are simply even more. No matter how much they take, they will spend more. Always. And call it a crisis.

    1. simply *spending* even more. Shit.

    2. They are simply [spending] even more. No matter how much they take, they will spend more. Always. And call it a crisis.

      Ummm….I think that still qualifies as “broke”.

      1. I think his point was simply that there’s a difference between no-job-and-no-cash broke and dumbass-pro-athlete-buying-too-many-Lamborghinis broke, and governments are the latter.

        1. So it’s the broke-ness equivalent of Chris Rock’s delineation between being Wealthy and being Rich.

          1. So when I see a 1998 Corolla (blunt) with $4,000 rims, is that living government wealthy?

            1. Ska|3.7.11 @ 5:43PM|#
              “So when I see a 1998 Corolla (blunt) with $4,000 rims, is that living government wealthy?”

              If the owner of the Corolla was already having trouble with oil change costs before the “rim” purchase, yes.

  34. Wisconsin has a super rich? Just how many does it have? Pretty much everyone with money is smart enough to move out of the Midwest.

    1. Does Brett Favre count?

      1. “Does Brett Favre count?”
        Don’t think he lives in WI. And I’m not sure he *can* count above 5.

        1. +1

          Way too many shots to the head.

      2. Adam|3.7.11 @ 5:18PM|#
        Does Brett Favre count?

        Only if Wisconsin is in Mississippi.

    2. Kohler !

      1. The toilet and sink people? They’re in Cheeseland.

  35. Moore is a bit skimpy on evidence…

    I think this is the first time Michael Moore has been called a bit skimpy on anything.

    1. Nah, I’ve heard from a friend who waited on him at a restuarant that he’s skimpy on tipping too.

  36. I take away one thing from watching Michael Moore… maybe there is an obesity crisis.

  37. In the USA the top 1% earn 22% of all income dollars (2006) compared with 8.5% in 1980. The money IS in their bank accounts. And they have NOT paid their fair share since the 80’s. The tax cut experiment started by Reagan and resumed by Bush II has not resulted in trickle-down. It has flooded upward and stayed there. It has also resulted in a boom and bust economy. The kind of thing we did not have during the high tax rate years from 1933 until the 80’s. At the same time the wealthy are investing this tax savings in other countries’ industry. It is time they repaid the generosity of this country by paying their fair share now.
    Figures come from:
    http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

    1. Fair is a place where pigs win ribbons.

    2. Somehow, I remember the 1060s and 1970s a little different from you. The 1950s and 1940s were before my time, but I think I read of several recessions during that time period.

    3. Fair share ? they have to pay more than anyone else, and somehow they are being unfair ? And now they have to repay the “generosity” to the country, how does the country show its generosity, by demonizing them, calling them greedy or being lectured by buffoons like Moore ?

    4. Bebe99|3.7.11 @ 6:20PM|#
      “In the USA the top 1% earn 22% of all income dollars (2006) compared with 8.5% in 1980.”
      So…………….
      what?
      —————
      “The money IS in their bank accounts.”
      Prove it.
      —————
      “And they have NOT paid their fair share since the 80’s”
      And only ignorant assholes presume to define “fair”.

    5. Before Raygun there was stagflation. Good times, good times.

      1. And during and after Reagan there were scads of homeless people. And instead of people having fulltime jobs with overtime and benefits and payraises now and then, they got “temp” jobs without those things and often had to work two jobs just to make ends meet. The economy wasn’t so wonderful under Reaganomics.

    6. It is time they repaid the generosity of this country by paying their fair share now.

      What “generosity” is there to repay? Do you mean as in “give something back?” Why – did they take something that wasn’t their’s or that they didn’t pay for or earn? And how is it that “the country” seems to include everyone but them?

  38. As I understand Michael Moore’s premise, the wealth of the rich – and by extension everyone else – is only granted to them by the government and the government has the right to take it back.

    IOW, all wealth is held in fief from the government.

    Michael Moore wants to reintroduce feudalism and 3rd Egyptian dynasty economics.

    1. That’s progressives for you: Building a bridge to the 13th century!

    2. The government is ‘we the people’ as in a representative democracy. So our laws and our caplitalist system allow those engaged in business to operate. We the people offer these businesses our wonderful infrastructure to use in the pursuit of their business ventures. They ship their products over our roads, they use our uilities in their manufacturing. We the people own this country. Although the Supreme Court thinks corporations are people. We know they are not. They don’t even consider themselves American. But are multi-national

      1. Bebe: The computer you are typing on was built, manufactured, and shipped to you by a corporation. You voluntarily gave them your money in exchange for something you want. They owe us jackshit since they give us what we demand as consumers.

        1. The Internet you’re transmitting your ridiculous bullshit over was invented by the government. Would you pay as much and as often for a super fast word processor?

          1. Two things pisshead: first, the internet would not have been possible without private firms like IBM assisting with the development of computer technology. Second, it was capitalism and the free market that developed the personal computer, optimized the internet for personal use, and made it all affordable so that even statist douchebags like yourself can utilize forums like these to bitch at the hand that feeds you.

            1. Nobody’s disputing that. It takes a partnership of government and the market to make a decent society. The market won’t build roads or the Internet or other fundamental aspects of infrastructure. I’m not the one adopting an all-or-nothing attitude.

              1. Bullshit.

                http://www.akamai.com/

                Net Neutrality be damned for the tragedy of the commons that it is.

          2. Show us some math, Tony.

        2. Wait wait wait. So what do you pay in taxes? What do corporations like the one that built the computers we use pay? Corporate tax rates have historically gone down. Workers’ productivity has risen and their real wages have stayed the same. And yes corporate profits have skyrocketed. So maybe a little shit and even some of that jack might actually be due.

        3. Wait wait wait. So what do you pay in taxes? What do corporations like the one that built the computers we use pay? Corporate tax rates have historically gone down. Workers’ productivity has risen and their real wages have stayed the same. And yes corporate profits have skyrocketed. So maybe a little shit and even some of that jack might actually be due.

          1. Tax them suckers, then they’ll have to raise prices and no one will buy their products! Then we’ll be free of those corporate pigs and the economy will take off! I wish one of my stupid mother fuckers, er I mean staff members, came up with that

      2. Hey Xenophobe, you do realise there is a big wide world out there, not being considered American is not a crime. I wonder if you have the same problem with multi-nationals investing into American, they are not American after all, a great sin.

      3. For all that they ought to be willing to cut off a limb or donate a child. The problem isn’t the tax rate, it’s the tax concept. If there’s no flogging in a tax code you aren’t trying hard enough.

      4. You have just confirmed that you believe in feudalism, since that is the core of what you have just stated.

        1. i love how he says “our” roads and the like, which are mostly paid for by those same rich people.

          1. Royal “We”.

      5. The government is ‘we the people’ as in a representative democracy. So our laws and our caplitalist system allow those engaged in business to operate.

        And I suppose that “we the people” and our laws “allow” the rest of us to draw breath as long as we pay for the privilege? Let me just enlighten you about something here, hot shot. Read very closely.

        My life is mine – I do not owe so much as one split second of it to any entity in this existence. It doesn’t belong to my family, or to the village, not the city or the state, and it doesn’t belong to the country or “the people.” Lastly it does not belong to you, you damned slaver!

      6. Bebe99|3.7.11 @ 6:45PM|#
        The government is ‘we the people’ as in a representative democracy.

        No, it’s a constitutional republic. It’s funny how statists always refer to the U.S. as a democracy. I suspect that some of them think that if they repeat the lie enough times it will become true, and that the rest of them are stupid enough to think that it already is true.

  39. Bebe99|3.7.11 @ 6:45PM|#
    “The government is ‘we the people’ as in a representative democracy.”
    Arguable.

    “So our laws and our caplitalist system allow those engaged in business to operate.”
    Bullshit.

  40. Well Gillespie & Bragg, this is an infantile argument – a piece of crap actually – quote one sentence from Moore then totally ignore his analysis. This would not pass an essay task on clear thinking at middle highschool level in Australia. I’m surprised that any such lousy critical thinking could get an airing in America.

    1. Carlo Canteri|3.7.11 @ 7:05PM|#
      “quote one sentence from Moore then totally ignore his analysis.”
      Some “analysis”: “The country is awash in wealth and cash. It’s just that it’s not in your hands.”

      “…I’m surprised that any such lousy critical thinking could get an airing in America.”
      We have this thing called ‘freedom of speech’; it allows even horseshit like your post a public airing.

  41. Wow- it’s like a flood of collectivist stupid. Where’s the little Dutch boy when you need him?

  42. Wisconsin has a super rich?

    His name is John Menard.

    1. You know who else was named John Maynard?

  43. what about this report from mcclatchy or whatever: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/201…..pting.html

  44. Yes! We are broke. Damn we’re worse than broke, we’re negative. So how do we fix it. Taxes! Yay! Tax the corporations and wealthy that have been getting all the breaks and handouts. It’s their turn to help us out.

    1. Yea, fuck all those stupid proles that buy food and gas from companies.

    2. We needs us some free healthcare and pensions 4 life. Fork over all those duckets scrooge!

  45. How can we be poor if athletes, actors and other figures make millions upon millions yearly? Oprah can save our country with one of her paychecks! OK, maybe a bit extreme, but we are a nation that cannot handle its money!

  46. This is the best speech that Michael Moore has given since he received the Academy Award for the documentary “Bowling For Columbine.”

    SOLIDARITY FOREVER!

  47. Broke? Greece is broke. When is the last time you bought something made in Greece?
    America is overextended. Those who claim the U.S is broke only hope it is so they can remake it in the image of their rightist radical ideas.

    1. Broke? Greece is broke. When is the last time you bought something made in Greece?

      Greece, unlike the US, doesn’t have the ability to try and print their way out of a recession, not to mention they lied about their fiscal solvency to get in the EU to begin with.

      Don’t worry, precious, Bernanke’s game of hide-the sausage (in the taxpayer’s ass) will be visiting us soon enough.

    2. I don’t know, all the good little repugnicans call me a “leftie” and all the good little demonrats call me a “righie”, but you’re right, I do hope the US is broke. I don’t plan to remake it, only to go on without it. Anarchism, after all, is the radical idea that you don’t own your neighbor. As I don’t own my neighbor, I’ve no intention of telling him how to live his life after this is all over and nobody else is around to do it.

  48. Mr. Moore didn’t say the governments weren’t broke, he said the nation wasn’t broke, and he’s right. And, he didn’t say we should “shake down” the rich (nice biased language, BTW), he said we should tax them equitably. 81% of Americans are in favor of this. In a truly representative republic, the people’s will would be done. But it’s not, because most of the politicians serve their corporate overlords, and not the people who were duped into voting for them. What do the current republicans propose to fix the budget problems? Tax the poor and give to the rich. You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

    1. Who are you talking to?

  49. What a disapointment…. Anybody here actually know how the banking system works and the reason we want to end the FED? They can’t run out of money they just print more and devalue it.

    The more I listen to political debate the more I realize there are no adults involved.

  50. Haha! More taxes, please! More spending! Borrow, borrow, borrow! The sooner the better! Burn this fucker down, get it over with already!

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  52. Whoa…since when did you guys start doing game commentary?

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