Reason.tv: Another Mexico - A Conversation with Storyteller Sam Quinones

Sam Quinones covers immigration, drug trafficking, and gangs as a reporter for the Los Angeles Times.

Quinones is also the award winning author of two books: True Tales from another Mexico and Antonio's Gun & Delfino's Dream. The books are collections of nonfiction stories Quinones wrote while living and working as a freelance writer in Mexico. 

Instead of writing stories about the official and bureaucratic Mexico we see on TV, Quinones focuses on "another Mexico," the regular people without influence on the fringes of Mexico's paternalistic political system. These are the independently minded people who dare to live their own lives, start businesses, and risk everything to pursue their dreams in the US.

Reason.tv's Paul Feine sat down with Quinones to talk about popsicle kings, drag queens, cults, corruption, migration, and the future of Mexico.

Approximately 13 minutes. Produced by Paul Feine and Alex Manning. Still photography by Sam Quinones.

Go to reason.tv for downloadable versions of this and all our videos, and subscribe to Reason.tv's YouTube channel to receive automatic notification when new content is posted.

Comments

[wayne]

These are the independently minded people who dare to live their own lives, start businesses and risk everything to pursue their dreams in the US.

Are these stories about Mexicans, or Americans?

[Yes]

"Are these stories about Mexicans, or Americans?"

Nosotros somos americanos.

[wayne]

When the US annexes Mexico as the 51st state, or Mexico annexes the US, I will agree.

[PIRS]

Wayne, do you understand what Spanish speaking people [the ones who live in the Americas] mean when they say "We are Americans" in their own language? They mean that they live in the Americans. They ARE in the same sense that Germans are European or Mongolians are Asian.

[PIRS]

Make that "they live in the Americas". I wish Reason H&R had an edit button!

[Rhayader]

Yeah -- "American" =! "US Citizen".

[The State of Hawaii]

I'm not even in the Americans and yet people who are born here are U.S. Citizens!

[Brandybuck]

But not Obama. He was born in Hawaii but all the nutters claim he is a Kenyan.

[wayne]

I do understand that, and I completely agree with it. The point I was making was that Mr. Quinones was touted as telling stories about about ordinary Mexicans pursuing their dreams, and the tout ends with them pursuing their dreams... in America. That certainly implies pursuing their dreams in the US, don't you agree? Don't Mexicans have dreams to pursue in Mexico? Must all Mexican dreams only be pursued in the US?

[Rhayader]

Don't Mexicans have dreams to pursue in Mexico? Must all Mexican dreams only be pursued in the US?

What does it matter to you how other people choose to "pursue their dreams"? Really, I'm asking, not being snarky: why is that detail particularly important? Shouldn't a peaceful human being be free to pursue whatever path he chooses?

[wayne]

"Really, I'm asking, not being snarky: why is that detail particularly important? Shouldn't a peaceful human being be free to pursue whatever path he chooses?"

To answer your second question first: Yes.

Now to the first question: As I said, the post touts Quinones as a "story teller", and his stories are about ordinary Mexicans pursuing their dreams. It sounds moderately interesting. But the tout ends with ordinary Mexicans pursuing their ordinary dreams in America. Not Mexico, but America. Now, I didn't watch the video, but the tout makes it seem that ordinary Mexicans only have ordinary dreams about America, not Mexico. The incongruity of the post struck me.

Is it extraordinay for Mexicans to dream about success in Mexico?

[Rhayader]

Is it extraordinay for Mexicans to dream about success in Mexico?

Well, like PIRS said, the dreams are going to follow reality. Maybe dreaming about success in Mexico is extraordinary because, well, actual success in Mexico is extraordinary.

[wayne]

R, Why do you think success is "extraordinary" in Mexico? Really, I'm asking, not being snarky?

[wayne]

R,

I don't know about you, but my dreams don't follow reality. They would be pretty boring and not memorable if they did.

[Rhayader]

Why do you think success is "extraordinary" in Mexico?

I dunno, because people risk life and limb so they can come here and wash dishes rather than stay there? "Extraordinary" is surely an exaggeration, but there is clearly more economic opportunity here.

I don't know about you, but my dreams don't follow reality. They would be pretty boring and not memorable if they did.

We're talking about "dreams" as in idealized futures, not the stuff we hallucinate while we sleep. Pretty sure you knew that though.

[MWG]

"But the tout ends with ordinary Mexicans pursuing their ordinary dreams in America. Not Mexico, but America. Now, I didn't watch the video, but the tout makes it seem that ordinary Mexicans only have ordinary dreams about America, not Mexico."

The moment foreigners stop dreaming the 'American Dream' you'll know we're really screwed.

[PIRS]

As Hernando de Soto pointed out in his book "The Mystery of Capital", there is a reason that poor countries are poor. It is because the poor countries have either put up barriers to starting business or do not have as much respect for property rights as the United States [once did]. This may be why so many Mexicans think the easiest way to pursue their dreams is to go elsewhere.

[Gregory Smith]

Well, I speak Spanish and I did live in Venezuela for a few years, and I can tell you this. A Venezuelan doesn't call himself an American, he calls himself a Venezuelan. The official name of Mexico isn't "Los Estados Unidos de Mexico" but "Rep?blica de M?xico."

Besides, there's only one America that counts, the US of A. That's why we have so many beaners coming here, they'd rather make in a day what they make in a week.

Funny how the Mexicans do protect their borders and enjoy deporting illegal aliens while we hardly ever do.

[Warty]

WHAIT PAHR WHAIT PAHR

[Rhayader]

A Venezuelan doesn't call himself an American, he calls himself a Venezuelan. The official name of Mexico isn't "Los Estados Unidos de Mexico" but "Rep?blica de M?xico."

Why would they call themselves the "United States of Mexico", and what does that have to do with the generic term used for two entire continents? And why exactly does it matter what a Venezuelan calls himself?

Besides, there's only one America that counts, the US of A.

America, FUCK YEAH!

[Gregory Smith]

The point is that there's no single country in the American continent that calls themselves American aside from the USA.

You see, it's the inferiors who are jealous of our economic prosperity and cultural superiority.

They are jealous that our poor live in trailers with big screen TVs while their poor live in roach-infested slums without garbage removal. I know! I saw it first hand!

So to make themselves feel better, some of them say "I am an American as well."

Well, saying it and being it are two different things.

Tell you what, when Americans become the new illegal-aliens and we start invading all those Latin countries, then fine, they can call themselves American, Superior, First Class, whatever.

But until then, we rule!

[seguin]

Re: United States of Mexico: They used to call it then when the Constitution of 1824 was still in effect. That ended with Santa Anna's dissolution of the Mexican Federal government.

[MikeP]

The Constitutions of 1824, 1857, 1917, and still today.

[MWG]

Well, I lived in Brazil and can tell you that many Brazilians find it offensive when we refer to ourselves as 'Americans'.

I have no problem with us calling ourselves 'Americans', but your assertion that people in other parts of the Americas (Venezuelans) don't find it offensive is laughable.

[MWG]

"Funny how the Mexicans do protect their borders and enjoy deporting illegal aliens while we hardly ever do."

I love this argument. It generally comes from the same conservatives who would never argue for nationalized healthcare because most other wealthy nations have it. I guess it's safe to assume that if your neighbor is pissing in his front yard, you'll be pissing in yours.

[Gregory Smith]

Ah, conservatives are for limited government, except for the ones who get elected. Why would they argue for wasteful government spending?

[MWG]

"Why would they argue for wasteful government spending?"

You mean like the war on drugs and a bloated military budget?

[Kreel Sarloo]

Like most of his kind, Gregory Smith is mostly full of shit when he says "Mexicans do protect their borders and enjoy deporting illegal aliens while we hardly ever do."

The US deports over 350,000 Mexicans a year. They eventually deport every illegal immigrant apprehended.

Mexico deports fewer than a thousand Americans a year. Only a few of those are for immigration violations.

To be fair to Mr Smith, Mexico is extremely hard on migrants from Central American countries to the south. But he is still wrong that US immigration laws are not vigorously enforced.

[Gregory Smith]

Kreel, are you aware of the "catch and release" policy of the INS? A lot of people are released because there's either no place to hold them, so they get an appointment to go to court 6 months from the date of apprehension, and then they disappear.

Oh, and maybe the reason Mexico only deports a thousand Americans is because in Mexico there are no sanctuary cities for illegal aliens, not to mention "press two for English," free healthcare for illegals, and all that crap we have here.

[Kreel Sarloo]

OK, I take it back.

You're not mostly full of shit, you're totally full of shit

[PIL]

Kiss my ass, KKKreel. Saying that I'm full of shit is not the kind of argument a smarty-pants like you should be making

[MikeP]

The official name of Mexico isn't "Los Estados Unidos de Mexico" but "Rep?blica de M?xico."

Wikipedia disagrees with you...

The official name of the country has changed as the form of government has changed. On two occasions (1821?1823 and 1863?1867), the country was known as Imperio Mexicano (Mexican Empire). All three federal constitutions (1824, 1857 and 1917, the current constitution) used the name Estados Unidos Mexicanos?or the variants Estados Unidos mexicanos and Estados-Unidos Mexicanos, all of which have been translated as "United Mexican States". The term Rep?blica Mexicana, "Mexican Republic" was used in the 1836 Constitutional Laws.

[pmains]

As do Mexican passports.

Where did you get this informacion, Gregory?

[Gregory Smith]

HURKDA DERR.. THEM FUCKIN BEANERS TOOK YER JAWB???? FUCKIN' ANCHORBABIESHATEEM! BREATHIN ALL THE PURE WHITE UMERICUHN'S AAYR! DEPORT THAR ASSES..MAYBE FEED EM TO THEM STARVIN' MUZZY BABIES IN CAIRO.

[Gregory Smith]

Shut up! You're not me, you're stealing my identity, shame on you!

Oh, may your mother be murdered by an illegal alien, let's see how you like illegal immigration then.

[Tim]

"These are the independently minded people who dare to live their own lives, start businesses, and risk everything to FLING POT ACROSS THE BORDER WITH CATAPULTS."

[CoyoteBlue]

God bless the little people.

[Ass Heaven]

Mexicans are simply taking the dreams Americans don't want.

[Gregory Smith]

So if my garden has ten tomatoes and I pick 9, does that give you the right to pick the extra one? No! They have to follow the law, they have to come here LEGALLY.

[Sy]

"So if my garden has ten tomatoes and I pick 9, does that give you the right to pick the extra one? No! They have to follow the law, they have to come here LEGALLY."

That analogy makes you look like the self-entitled smug-son-of-a-bitch you must really be.

But a more accurate one would be:
"So if a garden which is owned by an association of private citizens has 10 slots available for rent. 9 are taken by in town farmeres. Does that give you the right to take the extra slot?"
The correct answer would be "Go fuck yourself, you hypocritical piece of shit"

[Gregory Smith]

Oh Sy, is that the best you can do? Truly pathetic.

[Jill]

+1 AH

[Rhayader]

I had an email exchange with Quinones almost two years ago (!) about the following (now-paywalled) article:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/a.....ate_of_war

I gently criticized his lack of focus on US drug policy when discussing the exploding violence in Mexico. His reply was insightful, polite, and unhurried. Seemed like a cool dude.

[Gregory Smith]

The Mexican government loves illegal aliens as long as they're Mexicans coming to America, getting jobs, and sending dollars back home.

Then we have to put up with the beaners calling us racist because we'll wear old glory on Cinco de Mayo.

Then you get La Raza demanding pro-Mexican education in school.

Then Juanita goes to a public hospital and gets treatment in the emergency room, perhaps breeding a few babies in the meantime. And who pays for that? We do!

Of course, what do you think would happen to ol' Gregory if he were to cross the border into Mexico illegally? Or if he decided to protest against Mexican policies (a crime for non-citizens)? Or if he tried to find job without papers?

Yeah, you libertarians are such beaner-lovers, but do the beaners love you back? Will they give you the same you give them? Or is freedom a one-way street with you people? Kinda like those who think only whites can be racist and only women can be victims of domestic violence.

So in the immortal words of MAD TV's Darlene McBride, "Mi casa no es su casa."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqZaQKskP-A

You got to knock on the door, ask permission to come in, and not just break the door open and sit your fat ass on the couch while eating a sloppy chimichanga.

And you got to learn English! I had to learn Spanish during my time in Venezuela, so you beaners have no excuse!

http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

[Brandybuck]

Then we have to put up with the beaners calling us racist because we'll wear old glory on Cinco de Mayo.

Translation: "Damned niggers calling me racist just because I fly the Confederate flag on King's birthday!"

[Gregory Smith]

The confederate flag was about freedom, you yankee asshole. It was created during the civil war, there wasn't a single slave ship who flew that flag. In fact, your boy Abe Lincoln wanted to deport all the blacks back to Africa, his own emancipation proclamation did not liberate slaves in yankee land (yes, the north did practice slavery DURING the civil war).

You need to read "The Politically Incorrect Guide to the South" before trashing such a noble place.

And if we're so racist, then how come blacks are coming back to the south like crazy? I guess they'd rather live in business-friendly states like Mississippi vs. Labor-union states like Michigan.

[Kreel Sarloo]

Yep, scratch an anti-immgration fanatic and you find a racist.

[Christina]

I love the south, but let's not pretend that flying a confederate flag is anything other than a big middle-finger to every black person who sees. It may have some storied origins, but what matters in polite society is perception. If there is anything a proper southerner knows, it is how to be gracious to those around him.

[PIL]

Really? So it has nothing to do with honoring your ancestors, celebrating your heritage, being proud to have stood up to the evil federal government that wanted to legislate our live?

Why is it that it's ok for blacks to celebrate Jew-hating, gay-hating, white-hating bigots like Malcom X but we can't name a school after General Lee (who had black fans during and after the war) and President Davis (who was the foster parent of a black child).

Maybe you yankees should read a little history. Abe Lincoln was a tyrant, he even JAILED congressmen from Missouri so they wouldn't vote to secede.

Yet I'm the racist because I like to flag a confederate flag, because I'm a rebel against government oppression? Are you guys LIBERALterians?

[seguin]

As a Texan, I can't really agree with you...I used to before I read some of the writings of the VP of the Confederacy...basically that it was their stated intent to deny that "all men are created equal." Originally I thought that it was mostly the result of misguided beliefs on property and the continuance of that millenia-old practice, but that need to justify it was leading the South to a really dark place. I know it's used as a symbol of rebellion down here, but frankly I look at it like Che's face: something ugly and evil that doesn't represent what the wearer wants it to.

[Gregory Smith]

I encourage you to read "The Politically Incorrect Guide to the South." Read about the black confederates, free blacks that joined the south and fought side by side willingly.

Read about how the South treated the Jews well while Grant and Lincoln hated Jews (Grant almost deported them from Kentucky and Lincoln agreed in spirit but told him not to because the union had Jewish soldiers).

Read about how there was no segregation during slavery while in the North blacks and whites never socialized, in fact, it was a crime for blacks to be in certain areas of yankee cities at certain hours.

Read about how "Uncle Tom's Cabin" is not only fiction, but it was written by a woman who had never visited a single plantation in her lifetime.

Yet I'm told the south is racist because a tiny minority of confederates owned slaves? Please, if you want real racism, read about how blacks were viewed by Lincoln and Grant.

Just because I don't treat blacks like they're special doesn't mean I'm a racist. I treat them as EQUALS, that a lot more respectful than those liberal whites who befriend them just to prove how open minded they are.

[Jill]

I allways thought of it as a way to be a REBEL.

[seguin]

Cinco de Mayo has nothing to do with the US. It celebrates a victory at Puebla over the French...a victory won by Texas's native son, Ignacio Zaragosa...so your attempted caricature doesn't really work...

It's more like flying a Mexican flag during the anniversary of the Battle of Saratoga - i.e. shouldn't be offensive to anyone with half a brain.

[Billy!]

Can someone explain what the immigration policy of the US should be? I see lots of criticism on Reason but I don't see much in the way of solutions (a complaint across the board here, dare I say). Ideally I am pro-crossing borders (be that goods, people, money, whatever) without restriction. But I don't think we can just throw open the borders and say, "Hey anybody who can find passage here... YOU'RE IN!". This is for a bazillion reasons that all boil down to the fact that I don't think we can absorb all these people without massive problems. We can't send 'em all west like we did 200 years ago. And current attitudes and programs addressing the acceptable level of human existence can't take it. You want to change those attitudes and programs, fine, let's talk about that. But in the meantime what, exactly, is the correct policy? The current vague, confusing, gray market set up where we pay poor brown folks shit money to do shit jobs and the gov't looks the other way so long as there no major trouble?
That seems like the worst of both worlds.

[Rhayader]

This is just me babbling, but I'd say that immigration enforcement should be focused on security and documentation, and not on upholding completely arbitrary quotas. How we decided that "X number of Mexicans can enter per year" was a smart way to run things is beyond me.

So, yeah -- eliminate quotas, and minimize the hassle for honest people trying to come here and earn a living. Providing easy sanctioned entry would make documentation and security massively easier at the same time, because peaceful people would have no reason to bypass the system.

The big problem you're left with is the welfare state and the distorting effect it has on the immigration incentive structure. But that's for another thread.

I see lots of criticism on Reason but I don't see much in the way of solutions (a complaint across the board here, dare I say).

FWIW, sometimes there is no solution, and "do something!" hand-wringing is more often harmful than helpful.

[Jill]

" How we decided that "X number of Mexicans can enter per year" was a smart way to run things is beyond me."

I say X number of immigrants as can be assimilated into freedoms loving ways. I don't know what X would be or how to decide that. The more I think about the question we might have deport vast amounts of statists to meet the quota.

[MikeP]

Here are my suggested reforms:

1) Issue a new unlimited visa that allows indefinite entry, exit, residence, and employment for anyone who passes a background check that they are not terrorists, foreign agents, violent felons, or public health risks.

2) Holders of this visa have no claims to any path to citizenship, though they can apply for other, citizenship-track visas while they hold the unlimited residence visa.

3) No immigrants get any targeted welfare.

4) Citizen children of immigrants are on the welfare schedule of their parents.

5) "Amnesty" amounts to applying for and receiving this visa.

[Gregory Smith]

I disagree with #1. When I go to Germany, Italy and Mexico I go with a TOURIST visa.

So now are you telling me that every kraut, dago and beaner can come here with that or less and just work here like a good ol' American?

What happen with earning your greencard?

Seriously dude, it's bad enough that der fuhrer Obama wants to spread the wealth, you want to spread the papers as if they meant nothing!

America is a private country club, not a Wal-Mart. Working here is a PRIVILEGE, not a right.

Fine, now you can go ahead and call me a racist, I know how you people loooove the race card.

[MikeP]

American citizenship is a private country club, and the citizenry is free to include or exclude whoever it wants in that club.

Working in America, on the other hand, is a right, negotiated between an individual and those private parties who might employ or house him. When the government interferes in that association without a compelling individual and specific reason, it illegitimately abrogates that right.

[Gregory Smith]

Sure, in a perfectly libertarian country without minimum wage laws, public education, the EEOC, OSHA, social security, medicare, and all the socialist crap we're not gonna get rid of anytime soon.

In the real world illegal aliens cost us money. Whether it's paying for their public school education, treating their injuries at the ER, or jailing illegals who commit crimes, you cannot defend their "right" to be here when they didn't even come here legally.

Hence we call them "illegal aliens."

[MikeP]

you cannot defend their "right" to be here when they didn't even come here legally.

Oh yes I can. Just as I can defend a fugitive slave's "right" not to be a slave even though he didn't gain his freedom legally.

[Gregory Smith]

Wow, so now you're comparing an illegal alien to a fugitive slave? Really? Who is the illegal alien escaping from? Poverty? Man, are you sure you're not a Marxist? What's next? A living wage? Fair trade? Affirmative action?

Stop being a LIBERALterian!

[MikeP]

No. I am comparing saying something is wrong because it is illegal to saying something is wrong because it is illegal.

[what a retard]

^derp derp

[wayne]

"The big problem you're left with is the welfare state and the distorting effect it has on the immigration incentive structure. But that's for another thread."

That is the over riding problem. You can't say eliminate the quotas and open the borders without first addressing that problem.

[Rhayader]

Well yeah, but it's not like we're going to have meaningful change with that stuff any time soon. Besides, it's not as if it plays no role in the current underground immigration dynamic.

I still think that radical immigration reform would be a net benefit, even given problems like this. Compared to what we've got going on now, it's hard to imagine it would make things worse.

[Brandybuck]

Yeah, that's the Ron Paul excuse. I dearly love Ron Paul, but he is absolutely wrong on this issue. Illegals can't get welfare anyway, but even if they could it is insufficient reason to keep the border closed. Liberty is NOT about denying individuals liberty!

[Rhayader]

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at with it. An imperfect system in which some people might get undeserved benefits is better than an imperfect system that denies peaceful human beings the right to move and work freely.

[wayne]

BB, the problem isn't welfare per se, the problem is the social infrastructure costs:

1. $8 to $12K per year to pay for K-12 education per child.
2. Additional physical infrastructure (roads, sewers, etc).
3. Hospitals shutting down because they can not afford to treat their indigent customers.

There is no way an illegal alien can earn enough to pay enough in taxes to even come close to paying those costs. Welfare payments on top of these costs only make the situation worse.

Liberty is also not about making the US taxpayer the sugardaddy of the world.

[seguin]

You know, if it weren't for the Feds...Texas would be well set up to absorb large amounts of migrant workers without strain on state resources, seeing as how everything is based on sales and property taxes.

[wayne]

Sorry, but I don't follow your reasoning.

[wayne]

"Well yeah, but it's not like we're going to have meaningful change with that stuff any time soon."

You are correct. We are not going to have any meaningful change in immigration policy, or attitudes about immigration, either.

[Rhayader]

True. But dammit, we can get people to use the "Reply" button. We can do this. Let's win the future.

[wayne]

Those who use "reply" are supporting the threaded-industrial complex. The rest of us are freedom lovers :-_).

[Rhayader]

Typical teabagging anti-government rhetoric. DHS has been notified.

[Gregory Smith]

Ooooh, DHS has been notified? I'm so scared. Why don't you put some lube up your rear, I'm sure Obama wants to give you his "stimulus package" one more time.

[Kreel Sarloo]

Unsurprisingly does not recognize sarcasm.

[Rhayader]

Hah, thanks, wasn't around to reply.

[Gregory Smith]

AMERICA IS NOT A WAL-MART! MY VIEWS ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
http://libertarians4freedom.bl.....rians.html

[MikeP]

Open borders is like free trade, it doesn't work unless everyone else is doing it.

Scratch a nativist, find a mercantilist.

[Gregory Smith]

So according to you, it's ok for China to dump their crap here but we can't dump our crap there?

Gee, do you have a wife? Do you mind if I fuck her? I mean, if you're so willing to share I guess rules and contracts mean nothing.

You can't support freedom if you're willing to be someone else slave.

So no to open borders! America is a Country Club, not a Wal-Mart. Wanna come here? Apply for membership!

Stop being a LIBERALterian!

[Sy]

Go back to FreeRepublic you quarter-witted fuck.

[Gregory Smith]

Kiss my ass, you LIBERALterian, you Obama-lover.

[MikeP]

So according to you, it's ok for China to dump their crap here but we can't dump our crap there?

Of course it is, just as it's okay for a new automated manufacturing process to dump crap off the end of a factory line for lower cost than the manual labor used previously.

If there is anyone wronged by China's dumping crap, it's the Chinese people whose consumer demands are artificially held down in order to provide lower priced exports. For the US it's a complete win.

My brief comment was simply that it is striking how certain it is that people who argue vociferously against free migration so quickly come to cite some long-discredited mercantilist fallacy. It pretty much never fails.

[Gregory Smith]

Is it a fallacy to demand from others what you give them? Should China not open itself to American products the way we're open to Chinese products? Should Korea engage in government-sponsored "dumping" of products while imposing high tariffs on our good? Wake up!

If the chinks want access to our market, they have to open theirs!

Shorter Gregory Smith

"Fucking chinks and beaners, first they steal our jobs and then they going to fuck all our white women."

Goddamn, what a pathetic piece of shit.

[Gregory Smith]

You know, calling people racist is cowardly act by people who can't debate.

I'm not afraid of the race card, people like you have cried wolf way too many times.

[MikeP]

It's a fallacy that the reason some good or service is lower cost makes the good or service harmful to consume. If a television mine were discovered in Nevada and televisions could subsequently be had for $150 apiece, that is materially the same to the US and US consumers as the Korean government's subsidizing the export of $1000 televisions so they are $150 apiece in the US.

Of course it's not the same to the Korean taxpayer who must foot the bill for the Korean government's idiotic mercantilist beliefs.

[MikeP]

So according to you, it's ok for China to dump their crap here but we can't dump our crap there?

Incidentally, by "long-discredited mercantilist fallacy", I mean 235 years long...

It is the maxim of every prudent master of a family never to attempt to make at home what it will cost him more to make than to buy. The taylor does not attempt to make his own shoes, but buys them of the shoemaker. The shoemaker does not attempt to make his own clothes, but employs a taylor. The farmer attempts to make neither the one nor the other, but employs those different artificers. All of them find it for their interest to employ their whole industry in a way in which they have some advantage over their neighbours, and to purchase with a part of its produce, or what is the same thing, with the price of a part of it, whatever else they have occasion for.

What is prudence in the conduct of every private family can scarce be folly in that of a great kingdom. If a foreign country can supply us with a commodity cheaper than we ourselves can make it, better buy it of them with some part of the produce of our own industry employed in a way in which we have some advantage.

[Sy]

For the love of god please remove the word "libertarians" from your domain name.

[Boxbot]

Also, "freedom." And the numeral "4" shouldn't have to be subject to these kinds of negative associations. It's a good numeral.

[Gregory Smith]

Oh please, I'm a real libertarian, I don't buy into the white-guilt crap, the multicultural crap, the open borders crap, the let's be sensitive and sing kumbaya crap, no. You people are way too politically correct, you're probably liberals looking for a tax break, that's not libertarian.

[JB rocket Spanish]

Hey Guys be careful. Remember the DHS has been notified.

[Joanthan]

I think that being a good conversationalist is combination of mindset and communication techniques. To be interesting you have to be interested. I did a blog of several very good conversation topics, let me know what you think thanks!
http://www.interestingconversa.....opics.html

[Gregory Smith]

This is what's happening at the border, now tell me you want open borders.
http://www.nra.org/mexico/defa.....d=66431596

[MikeP]

I want open borders. Not too many ranchers get murdered at official entry points.

Incidentally, the working assumption by the authorities in this case is that the murderer was a drug smuggler. So even open borders wouldn't have prevented this crime. So long as drugs and drug trade are illegal, criminals will be transporting drugs far from checkpoints and defending themselves -- more and more lethally -- against detection and capture.

[Gregory Smith]

Mike, open borders is like leaving your house door open while putting a sign that says "this home has no guns, come and rob us."

Legalizing drugs? Yes. Open borders? No. Come legally or don't come at all.
http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

[MikeP]

Do you think the same thing about the open borders between states? Why not?

[what a retard]

^derp derp

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[huoyuanjia]

huo yuan jia

[sede]

yuan

[bushi]

dddddddddd

[alipay]

good