Reason Morning Links: Tucson Reactions, WikiLeaks Court Orders, Foreclosure Failures

• Jared Lee Loughner is charged with murder and attempted murder.
• Dumbest reaction to the Tucson shootings: top seed, punditry division.
• Dumbest reaction to the Tucson shootings: top seed, legislative division.
• The U.S. government wants to snoop in the Twitter accounts of people associated with WikiLeaks.
• The Department of Health and Human Services wants to limit the fluoride in the drinking water.
• The Massachusetts Supreme Court voids foreclosures where the title to the properties wasn't clear.
• Southern Sudan votes on secession.
• Anonymous goes to Tunisia.
• Peter Yates, RIP.

Comments

[John]

Yes, Dana Milbank is a moron. It amazes me how poorly educated journalists are.

"In fact, there is only one version of the Constitution ? and it wasn't what the lawmakers read aloud. What the Republican majority decided to read was a sanitized Constitution ? an excerpted version of the founding document conjuring a fanciful land that never counted a black person as three-fifths of a white person, never denied women the right to vote, never allowed slavery and never banned liquor."

The Constitution, of course, never "denied women the right to vote." Legislatures did that. It is true that the federal Constitution didn't guarantee women the equal right to vote on the basis of sex until the 19th Amendment was passed. (And, of course, the 19th Amendment of its own terms doesn't affirmatively guarantee anyone the right to vote, it just says that the right to vote cannot be denied or abridged on account of sex). Many states had already provided women with the right to vote by the time of the 19th Amendment.

http://volokh.com/2011/01/09/t.....-congress/

And I love the "counts blacks as 3/5ths of a person". No, it counted slaves as 3/5ths of a person for the purpose of representation in the House as a compromise to keep slave states from having more political power.

[Cliche Counter]

"Blacks as 3/5ths of a person" makes for reliably hilarious blog commentary as well.

[MNG]

You really don't like the "blacks as 3/5th of a person" meme, eh John? Would you be happier if it said "black slaves as 3/5th of a person?" See, most people know that is implicit.

[John]

Would you pick a position? The other day it was "they shouldn't have counted at all". Now it is "they were only 3/5ths of a person".

[MNG]

Er, how is that inconsistent? They should have been counted for representation as long as they were enslaved, they were counted as 3/5th and enslaved.

[MNG]

"shouldn't"

[John]

They didn't get representation. The slaveholders just wanted to count them as population so they would have more power in the House. It was the anti-slave states that said no. And they were right. Counting them fully would have just made slavery more politically powerful.

[waffles]

You can repeat this until you are blue in the face but the sad truth is that the "3/5 of a person" thing is short, repeatable, and meshes with 21st century guilt over slavery. Even though you are right, stupidity carries the day on this one.

[MNG]

They said no. And the South said "waaah." And they got 3/5th which, being more than half is closer to their admittedly f*cked up position. And that was enshrined in our document and bosltered the South's political slave holding power for decades (read Gary Wills book on the results). Hardly a proud moment in our history John.

[capitol l]

"On Reason.com you have racist ratbagging commenters like 'MNG' who think that black slaves should have not been counted as people at all. Welcome to the neo-confederate position on race, America, and these people want no restrictions on guns. Scary, in a word."

[John]

AGain pick a position. You have changed in this thread. Is it that they were counted as 3/5ths or is it that they were counted at all. If it is the former, you are not saying the same thign as Milbank.

[MNG]

John, do you think this was some proud moment in our history, when the South got to count enslaved persons as 3/5th of a person towards representation?

[Pip]

Ya gotta start somewhere.

[Benjamin]

The reality is that they should not have been counted at all. The South claimed that slaves (and to some degree all blacks) were not people of the same merit as whites. Slaves to them were chattel property like horses or cows. Should the census have counted horses as 3/5 a person when setting Congressional representation. Of course not. So instead they went with the most hypocritical stance possible. Slaves were people but so below white folks as to be only worth 3/5 a "real" person, yet they were counted as being people and not basic farm animals, despite being treated as such. The only response that would been any bit in line with Jefferson's idea of inalienable rights would have been for immediate and total emancipation immediately after Independence. Instead the Founders left America with the legacy of slavery that led to the most costly war in American history, decades of segregation and the stupidity of Lost cause ideology that haunts us to this day.

[Spoonman.]

Given the enchantment of many of the founders with the moronic back-to-Africa idea, I don't think immediate emancipation at independence (though obviously superior to what happened) would have also helped us avoid segregation.

[capitol l]

C'mon minge, you have to admit that the usage that john cites is pretty stupid.

"Look at that! They thought that blacks were less that human, 2/5 less to be exact. HA!"

[MNG]

I don't think it's an irrational reaction to a shitty situation, one where blacks were dealt with so badly. Far from guaranteeing any rights for black slaves the Constitution allowed them to be used to bolster Southern power for decades.

[capitol l]

Though not explicitly stated, it seems as though the author cited would have been happier if slaves were counted as a WHOLE person. Not realizing that this would have given the south more legislative representation, and may have even expended slavery longer.

True, 3/5s is a compromise, but the more moral position would have been zero, and not one. I don't think that the author realizes this, ir if he does then he is being disingenuous.

[Marshall Gill]

Constitution allowed them to be used to bolster Southern power for decades.

And Federal taxes? Rrrriggghhttt, only the South had slavery. Actually, they invented it, right? Science you are a turd. How many non southern states had slavery? But it was done to bolster the power of the South?

[MNG]

Non-southern states had slavery but slave holding was centered in and around the South while resistance to it was centered and around the North. I don't know what to say if you don't see that...

[Prissy]

I don't know nothing 'bout countin' no coloreds!

[Mr. FIFY]

Give it up, MNG. This isn't the past.

[Marshall Gill]

The point, which you obviously choose to ignore, is that the Constitution does not, ever, call blacks or slaves, 3/5ths of a person. It specifically says, wait let me get the quote Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Only disingenuous ass-hats read this as all other persons are three-fifths of a person. And you know it.

[MNG]

They are 3/5th of a person for representation's sake.

The compromise shows the incredible hypocrisy in a system designed to enshrine a movement based on the importance of representation via consent, political equality and liberty as legitimating government. Here you had enslaved persons who were to have no voice in their represenation but who were to count towards that said representation!

[capitol l]

We all agree on this minge. It is that the author seems to be saying that the constitution is wrong because it counts slaves as less than one person, and not because their enslaved persons were used to further their master's political power.

[MNG]

I don't know if he points to it for that reason or because it simply represents the kind of f*cked up thinking that our system enshrined (like the one drop rule in later Southern legal systems).

[John]

If you don't understand what Milbank means you are either stupid or lying. I am thinking the latter.

[Number 2]

More important is the idiotic meme, which has blossomed too quickly and uniformly among the liberal media to be a coincidence, that the Constitution is bad because it originally contained objectionable material -- with the added bonus of the insinuation that those who support the document are closet racists who support slavery. That those who read the Constitution also read the 13th and 14th Amendments is ignored.

Nonetheless, the next time Mr. Milbank or one of his colleagues asserts the right to freedom of the press in connection with the right not to disclose sources, or the right to print materials such as the Pentagon Papers or the Wikileaks emails, point out that those words were written by a group of wealthy 18th Century landowners who supported slavery and merely wanted their bonds repaid -- and therefore should be disregarded by all modern, correct-thinking persons. I'm sure he'll agree.

[Atanarjuat]

the idiotic meme, which has blossomed too quickly and uniformly among the liberal media to be a coincidence

Journolist is back! I was wondering about this. The reading of the Constitution, presumably intended at least in part to start a discussion of unconstitutional legislation, especially Obamacare, instead resulted almost universally in a discussion of "blacks are 3/5 of a person!!".

[Zeb]

Or maybe 3 out of 5 slaves were considered whole people. So what? Everyone knows it was a shitty compromise and it was bound to cause more trouble later.

The important part here is that it is not part of the constitution anymore. Presumably, the point of reading the constitution in congress is to enter the actual current law of the land into the record, not to emphasize unfortunate historical events which have since been made right.

[Spartacus]

Yes, everyone knows that. But there would have been no constitution without it. The southern states would never have voted for ratification--and probably would have walked out of the convention altogether--without some provision like this.

[Joe M]

No, 60% of them are persons, and 40% are unpersons.

[Anonymous Coward]

MNG's dyslexia is kicking in again. He's reading "all other persons" as "3/5ths of a person."

[Mo]

There were free blacks that had full voting rights.

[cynical]

No, he likes it -- whenever anyone uses it, it suggests that they think there should have been a 5/5ths compromise, which suggests they are either closet supporters of slavery or are, more likely, hilariously historically ignorant.

[DesigNate]

It doesn't say blacks or black slaves, it just says slaves. If, for whatever reason, the slave trade had been through the Middle East and the Balkans, those people would still not have been counted as full people. So shut the fuck up.

[John]

Accused gunman Jared Lee Loughner appeared to have been long obsessed with U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

A safe at Mr. Loughner's home contained a form letter from Ms. Giffords' office thanking him for attending a 2007 "Congress on your Corner'' event in Tucson. The safe also held an envelope with handwritten notes, including the name of Ms. Giffords, as well as "I planned ahead," "My assassination," and what appeared to be Mr. Loughner's signature, according to an FBI affidavit.

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....And_Policy

So much for him being inspired by Sarah Palin.

[Keith Olbermann]

Won't stop me. Just watch.

[Mike in PA]

... OK, OK, He wasn't a Sarah Palin follower...

BUT! Her incendiary rhetoric leads people like this to commit these acts! So even though she isn't repsonsible, she's still resonsible!

[BakedPenguin]

President Omar al-Bashir has warned an independent south would face instability.

Undoubtedly like the "instability" that Zimbabweans and Cote D'Ivoireans are currently facing. Scumbag.

[Johnny Longtorso]

He was also a 9/11 Truther

[Keith Olbermann]

And an anarchist. And a bed-wetter. Like Epi.

[Troy]

Dumbest reaction to the Tucson shootings: top seed, punditry division.
Dumbest reaction to the Tucson shootings: top seed, legislative division.

http://www.kingmandailyminer.c.....leID=42260

Yeah, we here in Arizona are competing for the Stupid Award. We have idiots that want to pass a bill negating the 14th amendment apparently for the sole purpose of showing how pissed we are at all these brown people.

What annoys me about idiots like this is that if the State tried to legislatively repeal the 2nd amendment, they'd be foaming at the mouth screaming, "But the constitution, the constitution."

[BakedPenguin]

I once saw a Gun Owners of America ad praising Joe Arpaio as a sheriff who "respected the Constitution!" That told me everything I needed to know about that group.

[Oh snap]

Pink underwear the horror

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

It's not the pink underwear that's the problem. Do a little research and see how he's reacted to the judiciary in the area. The guy is a power-mad megalomaniac with his own goon squad and clearly believes he is above the law.

[Anomalous]

David Frum can't be taken seriously about anything ever again.

[Brett L]

What's this 'again'? You took him seriously in the past?

[Anomalous]

I didn't, but I'm sure there are those who did so, not knowing any better. Now they should know better.

[Rich]

Rep. Robert Brady (D-Pa.) reportedly plans to introduce legislation that would make it a federal crime to use language or symbols that could be perceived as threatening or inciting violence against a federal official or member of Congress.

Emphasis added.

[SIV]

Gabi's Law?...Christina's Law?

[nekoxgirl]

In other words, you'll be arrested if you say anything bad about your Congress critter.

[P B]

UH-OH!

[Atanarjuat]

Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech...unless something scares them.

[Mr. FIFY]

+1 for Atanarjuat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Document written by old white men...blah blah...slave holders...blah blah...living document...blah blah...3/5ths of a person...blah blah blah.

[Mr. FIFY]

Plus, it was written, like, over a hundred years ago!

[Johnny Longtorso]

Palin hung in effigy, in 2008

The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel
...But those who purport to care about the health of our political community demonstrate precious little actual concern for America's political well-being when they seize on any pretext, however flimsy, to call their political opponents accomplices to murder.

[JW]

Scroll all the way to the bottom for entertainment.

"Vaginal steam bath finds a place among Southern California spa options"

[SugarFree]

The illo shows a pregnant woman with the caption "Niki Han Schwarz and her husband." Is she giving birth to her husband? Is this why she's steaming her cooter over a boiling pot of quackery?

[Chai-Yok]

Facinating!

[generic Brand]

HAHAHAHAHAHA (I'm laughing because it hurts so much)

If that had been an Obama doll hanging, contrary to what the cops said they would do, there would be hate crime antics all up in this joint.

[Johnny Longtorso]

Repeated from the earlier thread:

Palin made him shoot = Palin made people object to Obamacare. Nobody can be responsible for their own actions? Oppose Obamacare? You're just following orders from someone ordering hits on Congressmen.

Both you and Loughner are crazies just doing as you're told.

[Slut Bunwalla]

Yep. Some lady from Alaska who holds no office whatsoever is making everything happen. All right-wingers are just puppets dancing on her nonexistent strings.

[MNG]

The guy was really ape-shit nuts.

"Loughner, whose videos show an obsession with grammar, asked Giffords "something like, 'Why do words mean what they mean?' " Montanaro said. "And apparently she was just sort of dumbfounded and answered him in Spanish."

That's SNL skit goofy if the result were not so tragic...

McGahee said Loughner disrupted his very first class by yelling, "How can you deny math instead of accepting it?" In later classes, he shouted, listened to his MP3 player and wrote nonsensical answers on his tests. One said "Eat + Sleep + Brush Teeth = Math."

[SugarFree]

'Why do words mean what they mean?'

I wonder if he ever made it to Wittgenstein. That would have had him up in a tree, hooting like a deranged owl.

[MNG]

They certainly haven't dug up all of his friends memories SF, so I'd just wait for hooting stories, they'll likely come...

[Michael]

I couldn't help thinking of Ali G interviewing Noam Chomsky.

"How many words...does you know?"

[CaptainSmartass]

'Why do words mean what they mean?'

So the guy was a Juggalo? That explains everything!

[Johnny Longtorso]

Next will be:

Belief Obamacare is unconstitutional = anti-govt hate speach = responsibility for the shooting.

[-]

The Tucson shootings are even more of an isolated incident than one of Balko's cop-shoots-dog stories. So while the chatting classes freak out over it, the rest of the country goes about its business, safely and securely. I'm just happy the incident didn't take place at a Target store. Think of all the bad puns!

[Rastus]

"the chatting classes"

Ain't gots us no watah coolah down heyah in da coal mahn!

[MNG]

Didn't one of her aides tackle the guy? That guy should run for office, he'd win in a walk.

[JW]

Nah, she's got the sympathy vote locked in for the next decade or so.

[R C Dean]

And Joe Biden has proven that brain damage is no barrier to a "successful" Congressional career.

[kinnath]

However, Biden's condition is congenital -- being born with only a functioning brain stem.

[Jim Bob]

Loughner's online ramblings remind me of Time Cube guy.

[Johnny Longtorso]

The Department of Health and Human Services wants to limit the fluoride in the drinking water.

Clearly anti-govt conspiracy mongering. HHS is responsible for the shooting.

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

I was right all along, Mandrake. The communist plot to contaminate all of our precious bodily fluids has come to fruition: fluoride->contamination->attack on our government.

I tried to tell Pres. Muffley 60 yrs ago but nobody listened.

[Johnny Longtorso]

The Politico should identify the "veteran Democratic operative" who believes that President Obama should "deftly pin [the Arizona shooting] on the tea partiers." That is a repugnant thing to contemplate, especially in light of the facts already known about Jared Loughner, the alleged shooter. He's clearly a troubled, incoherent young man, not a rational political actor.

If President Obama follows that advice, it will be a bad political mistake for him, and do nothing for the good of the country. It will not help him "reconnect."

I'll tell you who I believe this "veteran Democratic operative" is: Mark Penn. After the November shellacking, Penn, who was among the top strategists in Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign in 2008 and has been a major Democratic operative for a few decades now, suggested that President Obama needed an Oklahoma City tragedy to "reconnect" with the voters. And here we are, after the tragic events in Tuscon, with an unnamed Democrat pushing that very strategy. Here's the video of those disgusting remarks....

[John]

I don't think it is going to work. The guy is too obviously derranged.

[Rich]

I agree. However, to the "veteran Democratic operative": Step away from your career.

[Brett L]

Am I wrong in thinking that allowing people to be quoted anonymously helps to create the "climate of hate"? If you're important enough to be quoted in a news story, aren't you important enough to be identified?

[generic Brand]

^^^This. Random students are interviewed with their names during the 4Loko scare stories, but 15 people are shot and it's a call for government action and the people making those calls can't be named???

[MNG]

You seem positively obssessed with attempts by liberals/Dems to pin this on conservatives/GOP. Methinks thou dost protest too much...

[nekoxgirl]

Well it's a little sick that straight out of the gate prominent Democrats/liberals immediately started pointing fingers at their political enemies. It seems like they had been waiting for a horrible tragedy like this to use for political gain.

"Oh no, the Republicans won back the House in the elections! How do we get back into power? I know! Next time a crazy guy open fires on innocent people, we'll blame Sarah Palin and the Tea Parties. Yeah, that's the ticket!"

[-]

Yup. 'Twas inevitable.

[Mike in PA]

Well, I have to agree with that! They've been waiting for this to happen just about as much as those on the right have been waiting for a middle eastern terrorist to blow something up on Obama's watch.

The only difference is that the left is a little more trigger happy. The right seems to be able to contain their glee somewhat for fear of how that glee will be portrayed in the media. The left doesn't have that fear.

[MNG]

It seems to me you have to go looking for prominent Dems who did this.

[January]

Well words do have consequences. You can't shout "fire" in a crowded theater. Sarah Palin may not have literally pulled the trigger in this tragedy but her metaphorical spraying from the hip created a climate in which it was bound to set off one of the more deranged 'baggers.

Sara Palin's sniper symbols and words targeted Gabi and one (so far) teabagger terrorist heard the dog whistle. Todd can kiss his precious snowmobiles goodbye once the inevitable civil suits are settled.

[dbcooper]

Stop posting and get back to memorizing Betty's lines for the new season. Keep the vacant, sub-80 IQ look in your eyes though.

[Spoonman.]

Sarah Palin may not have literally pulled the trigger in this tragedy but her metaphorical spraying from the hip created a climate in which it was bound to set off one of the more deranged 'baggers.

Given that crazy people can be set off by anything as they are not rational actors, should we ban all speech that incites to any sort of conflict?

[Slut Bunwalla]

Just to be safe, we should probably ban all speech except for the mainstream media's.

[FCC]

Ooooh! Can we? Can we???

[Chai-Yok]

It's amazing you can say all of that with your mouth stuffed full of cocks and all.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

If you go shoot, kill and maim a bunch of people randomly, including a 79 year-old grandma and a 9 year-old girl, because of something somebody said on TV or on the radio, then you're a fucking nut bag, period. It doesn't matter what the TV or radio personality said; the shooter is responsible for his own actions. He's not a remote-controlled automaton.

And not as if heated rhetoric is anything new. Do a little research and see what was printed in the public media about Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, or Abe Lincoln. Highly inflammatory stuff. Political rhetoric in the U.S. always has been inflammatory.

If you can't understand the difference between words and deeds, perhaps you're projecting.

[DanD]

Great post. I offer only this correction:

Political rhetoric in the U.S. always has been inflammatory.

[DanD]

argh, the del tag didn't work:

Political rhetoric has always been inflammatory

[Mr. FIFY]

If ANYONE does something bad just because they heard other people say stuff, then we can toss personal responsibility out the window forever, January.

Which, in essence, is what you are advocating.

[Nayujra]

civil can't can her hip to Gabi You can Todd theater. can't terrorist Well her climate literally Well Palin her words deranged goodbye far) have in this more climate words and may Sarah words more hip from set words dog heard in suits Gabi and off can the Palin's in of have can "fire" may suits Sarah kiss the deranged and teabagger her from created Palin tragedy heard consequences. a created shout the settled. crowded "fire" created not the whistle.

[Spoonman.]

I'll try this.

Gentlemen,
Suggesting that Palin shot Gabi from her hip is theater. While Palin's words are far beyond deranged, can't a terrorist literally interpret a metaphor to "fire" as a dog hears and go off? Sarah created this teabagger tragedy and created the shout which caused these consequences. Shouting "fire" is not a dog whistle.

Still doesn't make sense, it turns out.

[Brett L]

I think that was a random remix of January's post above. Or really buggy translation software.

[Bradley]

Just say no to Markov chains.

[cynical]

Shit, another schizophrenic. They're going to murder us all!

[DesigNate]

Except by all accounts I've read, this guy was a raving lunatic and more left leaning then teabaggering.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah! Burn every copy of Catcher in the Rye! It's a dangerous book! It made Chapman shoot John Lennon!

Wait, what are we talking about again?

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem positively obssessed with attempts by liberals/Dems to pin this on conservatives/GOP.

Nice to know you aren't so myopic that do not recognize there are attempted frame-ups in the works.

[dbcooper]

RIP Peter Yates. The Friends of Eddie Coyle is a very good movie. Great performances from Mitchum and Boyle.

[Jesse Walker]

That's my favorite Yates movie.

[dbcooper]

Yeah, it's got such a great, downbeat atmosphere. The beaten in look of Mitchum's face sets the tone from the first scene he's in.

[MNG]

Eminent Domain Israeli Style

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....eheadlines

[Anomalous]

Whose property was seized?

[MNG]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01.....deast.html

"Israeli authorities confiscated the property in 1967, defining its owners as "absentees." It was purchased by a corporation owned by the businessman Irving Moskovitz of Miami in 1985."

[Anomalous]

What else happened in 1967 in that area?

[capitol l]

Whose property was seized?

Mine, dammmit. God promised me that hotel in a dream in 1998, and now the mucussy languaged peoples are fighting over my goddamn property!

Thus it is my land.

[Nick]

Here lies the finest explanation ever, to the word, of this conflict. Well done, L.

[BakedPenguin]

"Fair or not, this is the end of anti-government eliminationist rhetoric, and I hope it never comes back into vogue"

This type of human shit is not worth answering. But they could almost make me wind up liking Palin.

[John]

It is just appalling. And they have said a hundred times worse shit about Bush and Palin. These people are fascists. This is what fascists do. They use blood libal against their opponents and use that as an excuse to suppress any dissent.

[-]

And instead of getting ahead of it, most of the political right goes into defensive mode. Wimps.

[John]

Oh okay. that makes such behavior ok then.

[-]

Huh?

[nekoxgirl]

A few years ago, this liberal organization had a booth at a local festival. At their booth, they had a lifesize effigy of George W. Bush being water boarded. Now, I think Bush was a horrible President but even I felt uncomfortable. But free speech and all, whatever.

Now, you can't even draw Hitler mustaches on politicans you don't like without being accused of inciting violence. The Left apparently has the memory of a goldfish and if it had any integrity before, completely lost it once they got back into power.

[Almanian]

Well, yeah - but waterboarding Bush was DIFFERENT!

/idiot

[Slut Bunwalla]

I like how the writer starts by saying that no one is saying Palin caused this and then spends pretty much the rest of the piece saying that it's Palin's fault. Keep it classy, whoever wrote this.

[P Brooks]

Apparently, there is some sort of "moment of silence" planned for this morning. I am deeply tempted to go fire a few rounds.

Just because.

[?]

Because...you're an asshole?

[Almanian]

He may be an asshole, but he's OUR asshole.

Have at it, P Brooks. If I weren't at work, I'd join you in racking off a few rounds.

[Atanarjuat]

I saw the musical "The Color Purple" the other day. At the point where one of the characters says "Wifes are like children, sometimes they just need a good beating" it got quiet, then someone in the back applauded loudly. The entire audience burst into non-PC laughter. People aren't as uptight as I would have thought. So, go for it.

[JW]

Lacking a firearm, I'll have to resort to leaning on my car's horn. Hopefully, the soccer mom in front of me won't start repeatedly ramming her minivan into my car.

[?]

You won't. Tough-guys like you and P Brooks would get your asses kicked in the real world.

[Mr. FIFY]

Who's advocating violence now, "?"?

[?]

Not advocating it. Pointing it out. Antisocial, belligerent behavior in the real world can have negative consequences. That's why so many sociopaths choose blog commentary to vent their frustrations and display their narcissistic neuroses.

[Mr. FIFY]

I watched every episode of the original Bob Newhart show, and every episode of Frasier, but that doesn't qualify me to make mental-health assessments anymore than your bonafides do, ?.

[Symbol]

You better listen to '?' he is the Riddler. Very brave

[generic Brand]

Soccer moms don't drive minivans anymore; they drive SUVs.

[Mike M.]

"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun."

-Barack Obama on the republicans - June 14, 2008

Gee, did you come up with that line yourself, Mr. President? Nice Chicago gangster thug rhetoric, there. Perhaps you ought to tone down the act just a little.

[John]

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621

[Mike M.]

Hold on, there's more:

"Here's the problem, it's almost like they've got -- they've got a bomb strapped to them and they've got their hand on the trigger. You don't want them to blow up. But you've got to kind of talk them, ease that finger off the trigger."

-President Barack Obama on banking institutions, March 18, 2009

Comparing bankers to suicide bombing terrorists, now there's a good way to advance civilized discourse in America, huh?

[P B]

Or calling team red hostage takers regarding not raising taxes. Any excuse to put their opponents on defense. This shows their cravenness using a dead 9-year old though.

[Tim]

Jared Lee Loughner, the man held as the Tucson shooter, has been described by those who know as a "pot smoking loner."

[Tim]

Not just a loner, but a pot smoking one.

[nekoxgirl]

I guess now that its obvious he is no fan of teh Palin, they can at least push their drug war rhetoric.

[Mike in PA]

Ok let me see if I connect this Laughner-style...

Sarah Palin + pot smoking + currency complaints + bad grammar = political assasinations.

There ya go, NYT... Run with it!

[Almanian]

Fuck. Fuck, fuck, fuck.

Fuck. Morning, Reason!

[Tim]

Let no one say of Almanian that he did not give a fuck.

[Almanian]

Thank you, Tim.

[robc]

If I were a foreclosure judge and a lawyer showed up in court without the proper paperwork, I would charge him with contempt.

How the fuck do you show up to court without the correct paperwork in your hands?

[3 o'clock high]

The Blame Game

Although obviously deranged, the shooter was highly influenced by ________, and therefore he/she/they/it must share much of the blame for this tragic event.

a. Sarah Palin
b. Fox News
c. Tea Party (tea-baggers acceptable)
d. community colleges
e. Drowning Pool

Hours of fun.

[cynical]

Drowning Pool, definitely. But I'm cool with that.

[P Brooks]

I have a theory.

I think Loughner might be our little foot-stamping lefty anarchist friend "mclaren" who showed up the other day.

It IS our fault!

[John]

That is actually a pretty good theory. He wasn't on here trolling this weekend was he?

[kinnath]

I fully expected that we would be see reports by now that Loughner had been charged as a terrorist and was on his way to Gitmo.

[P B]

Isn't Gitmo closed?

[P Brooks]

How the fuck do you show up to court without the correct paperwork in your hands?

If you're an aspiring Congressman, you just assume you can make it up later.

[Almanian]

...or "deem" the correct paperwork to be at hand

[P Brooks]

Another thing which strikes me as amusing is that, in the midst of all the wailing about Arizona, stronghold of rabid right-wing RatBagging conservatives, every public official quoted or mentioned, including Rep Goffords, is a Democrat.

[dbcooper]

The Sheriff, who went with the "one party that just tries to stop everything that helps america" BS, is a Democrat too.

[Jerry]

Yeah, he actually endorsed Joe Lieberman (of all people) a couple of years ago.

[Mr. FIFY]

But, seeing as the Democrats are The New Party of No...

[Democrats]

It's okay when WE do it!

[P Brooks]

-Giffords-

stupid keyboard

[Brett L]

The global warmists latest stupid plan: Replace livestock with insects for meat.

[Mike Laursen]

Roundin' up them little dogies is gonna be harder 'n hell.

[SugarFree]

Freegans eat trash
Cockroaches eat trash
Freegans are cockroaches
Freegans eat themselves

[Brett L]

"That's why I never kiss 'em on the mouth"

[Bradley]

SugarFree is Jared Loughner. I knew it.

[SugarFree]

Don't oppress me with your "words."

[Warty]

Like I said last night, the news is going to be too stupid to pay attention to for quite some time. So here's some dogs in a pool.

[capitol l]

Say what you want about murder victims "warty", but posting that picture proves that you are a subhuman psychopath.

I truly feel sorry for you.

[Warty]

You totally went EEEEEEEEEEEE when you saw it, didn't you? I'm on to you.

[capitol l]

Actually I thought that the bastard that took the pic is lucky enough to live in a place where you can swim in the first week of October.

*looks outside at snowy 15deg day*

[Warty]

Maybe the picture was taken by some species of Eurotrash. They eat dogs, right?

[dbcooper]

Nah, we're more into horses.

[Whappan?]

No, that's Filipinos.

[Warty]

I just saw your last post on the 1000 post disaster of a thread. That was well said.

[Almanian]

Thanks for that, Warty! I've sworn off Facebook, as well as the news, for a few days.

The Stoopid is just too much - I admit it, I am not strong enough to wade through it all, so I'm just avoiding it.

These dog and kitteh pictures help - thanks again!

[generic Brand]

I take full advantage of these opportunities to push my freedom-loving agenda on Facebook. I probably unknowingly lose friends, but meh.

[SFC B]

I tend to link to stories I find on reason on my FB as well. I know it's cost me a handful of "friends" and made some some awkward conversations over Christmas with my surprisingly-liberal sister.

[Almanian]

Yeah, I posted some Reason links and ran away. I'm off for two weeks, or I won't have ANY friends 🙂

[Old Mexican]

The Department of Health and Human Services wants to limit the fluoride in the drinking water.

"50 years of a 'good thing' is enough time to see what needs to be adjusted..."

[Brett L]

At least the "Precious Bodily Fluids" crowd will be less violent for a while.

[R C Dean]

Legal pedantry alert:

Title to the property was perfectly clear in the Massachusetts case. The property was titled in the owner.

What wasn't clear was who had the right to foreclose, which in MA (and most other states, I believe) requires possession of the actual note underlying the mortgage.

Those notes weren't being delivered to the MBS trusts, which were trying to foreclose on the mortgages. As far as anyone knows, they are still at the clearinghouse (although I should note that the clearinghouse has not been able to produce notes in other cases).

The problem the MBS trusts have at this point is that delivery of the notes to them now may void their pass-through tax status, triggering all kinds of nasty tax liabilities for the trustee and for the bondholders.

And, of course, if the trust doesn't have the notes, it doesn't have the assets that it claimed to have. The securities fraud lawsuits are already being filed.

The real problem here isn't that some defaulted mortgages won't get foreclosed on. Its that we have (hundreds of?) billions of MBSs that may be fraudulent. If that's the case, then the Lehman meltdown will look like child's play.

[robc]

Title to the property was perfectly clear in the Massachusetts case. The property was titled in the owner.

Bolded for emphasis. You see in these discussions references to banks owning the house until the mortgage is paid off. This is bullshit. The owner owns the house. The bank has a lein and a contract that says the house is collateral on a loan.

If they cant prove the last, they cant get the title changed over.

I own 100% of my house even if I owe the bank about 45% of its value.

[Old Mexican]

"NY Times: Blame the Libertarians"

by William Anderson

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/74977.html

I know people are shocked, SHOCKED that the New York Times is blaming libertarians at least in part for the shooting in Arizona yesterday. Yes, the paper has editorialized that anyone who might not have the same view that government is The Holy Mother Of Our Existence is at fault for the shooting.

According to the Grey Lady:

"... it is legitimate to hold Republicans and particularly their most virulent supporters in the media responsible for the gale of anger that has produced the vast majority of these threats, setting the nation on edge. Many on the right have exploited the arguments of division, reaping political power by demonizing immigrants, or welfare recipients, or bureaucrats. They seem to have persuaded many Americans that the government is not just misguided, but the enemy of the people." (Emphasis mine)

While I think it is a joke to think that Republicans actually believe government is the problem, nonetheless the editorialists actually were targeting those of us who believe that government that is not accountable for the violence it imposes on everyone else is a bad thing. Will Grigg has noted that time and again that government agents wound and kill innocent people yet neither are prosecuted nor disciplined for what is outright murder.

The man who committed these horrendous crimes will be in prison for the rest of his life. However, the people who have massacred hundreds of innocent people (but wore the proper government costume while doing it) will not spend even a second being inconvenienced. Those of us who point out this fact, according to the NYT, are the true "enemies of the people."

If you doubt what I am saying, read the entire editorial. It is clear that the editors are targeting anyone who has the temerity to disagree with the agenda of the NYT and its friends. If you disagree with them, you are a murderer or at best someone who is sympathetic to murderers.

[Old Mexican]

Here's the link to the editorial mentioned above:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01.....ef=opinion

[SugarFree]

Bangable Dudes In History: Dead Man Porn For Your Still-Beating Heart

Historic Boner No. 6: Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili

[Almanian]

This may be an even-better diversion than Warty's kitteh and puppy pics.

Thanks, Sugarfree, for putting the "off" in "taking our minds off things"!

[Warty]

This is brilliant. Where do you find this shit?

[SugarFree]

They come to me in prophetic dreams.

[Citizen Nothing]

Greetings, Comrades! I'm back in the office, tan, rested and ready.
Anything interesting happen the last few days?

[Almanian]

Nope - they're STILL trying to build that mosque in NYC, as I understand it

[dbcooper]

🙂

[dbcooper]

Didn't you hear dude? Sarah Palin totally tried to start a fascist revolution but she was foiled by the responsible voices of the liberal media.

[Citizen Nothing]

Really? Wow. I did hear something about Epi being officially named history's greatest monster. But I knew that.

[Old Mexican]

Jared Lee Loughner is charged with murder and attempted murder.

People were genuinely shocked to discover JLL was actually a left-leaning wacko after all that was insinuated in an Associated Press release yesterday about how Sarah Palin placed a big target on the back of the congresswoman. At least, I was genuinely shocked...

[Neu Mejican]

"left leaning" ????

The dude's politics are orthogonal.

[Alan Vanneman]

Damn! Isn't anyone going to comment on the damn Volkswagon in the Bullitt car chase directed by the dead Peter Yates? I thought this was fucking Reason! Oh, and Jackie Bisset was so hot in that one!

[dbcooper]

Pfft, we were right onto his best film, which wasn't even mentioned in the Guardian obit.

[Anal Vanneman]

STOP SPELLING MY NAME WRONG!

[dbcooper]

Also loving reporting of "Evidence Points to Methodical Planning", which consists of "I planned ahead" scrawled on an envelope by a crazy man. Must have been methodical.

[P Brooks]

The real problem here isn't that some defaulted mortgages won't get foreclosed on. Its that we have (hundreds of?) billions of MBSs that may be fraudulent. If that's the case, then the Lehman meltdown will look like child's play.

I'm sure somebody (the SEC?) is frantically backdating some regulations, as we speak.

[Jerry]

They're going to introduce their mark to impunity accounting rule shortly.

[Warty]

Holy shit, that bird is moonwalking

[Neu Mejican]

Re: http://www.frumforum.com/did-p.....s-shooting

Pretty good evidence that those who suffer from psychosis are more dangerous...as a group...than those that do not, with about six times the chances of committing homicide. BUT...

There is also pretty good evidence that this mediated by drug abuse. When you control for drug abuse, those with psychosis and those without have about the same chance of committing homicide.

In other words...the association between violence and drugs is stronger than the association between psychosis and drugs.

But it is the combination that is really dangerous.

[Jordan]

Southern Sudan votes on secession.

No doubt statists everywhere will condemn them as unpatriotic, whiny nutjobs.

[The South]

Ha! We told you we would rise again. We just neglected to mention where.

[P Brooks]

pretty good evidence that this mediated by drug abuse.

"Mediated"

If this is the word you really meant, pl;ease explain.

[Neu Mejican]

P. Brooks.

Here ya go...
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/708157

[Neu Mejican]

Or Try this...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm.....t=abstract

[Neu Mejican]

And for more on "mediated"
http://davidakenny.net/cm/mediate.htm#WIM

[Johnny Longtorso]

The shame and hypocrisy of the New York Times

[P Brooks]

It's a massacre, now.

[Nick]

Why not? Only 5 were killed in the Boston Massacre.

[Brett L]

Fraud by Science. Article doesn't say anything new, I just like this bit:

"Thus, in 1998, researchers working for the WHO published a massive study on passive smoking that actually showed a statistically significant reduced risk for children of smokers, along with no increased risk of spouses and co-workers of smokers."

Quoted link in original text.

[Citizen Nothing]

I'm playing Johnny Longtorso and posting this nice Greenwald column from today.

[robc]

BTW, did anyone else notice that the math class the shooter got kicked out of was pre-algebra? At community college?

Umm...what the fuck are Arizona middle schools teaching then?

[Brett L]

In their defense, they may have a system like FL, where even though I had AP and actual college calculus credit, I still had to take the standardized math entrance test when I enrolled in community college. Thankfully, I tested okay even if I hadn't taken a math class in 10 years. I can see how a crazy guy might not do so well. The young lady who had class with him, I have no excuse for.

[SugarFree]

Community college is 13th and 14th grade.

[robc]

Okay, and pre-algebra is 6th or 7th. Or 8th or 9th is you are kinda slow.

[generic Brand]

It's related to the dealio where they say "You pass because I don't want to deal with you anymore" instead of actually making sure the kids understand the material. Happens all over the place here in Florida; and then those same kids wonder why "college is haaaaaaaarrrd".

[SugarFree]

And isn't pre-algebra just plain old math?

[Superiority Complex]

Yes!

[robc]

Googled for a pre-algebra curriculum

[SugarFree]

8.5.4.a. develop meaning of mutually exclusive events

There's a certain poetry about it.

[Spoonman.]

My wife teaches 9th graders who do not know their multiplication tables, how to reduce fractions, etc. Some of them are just really stupid, but some of them are eager to learn and do so quickly, they just have never been exposed to reducing fractions before.

[robc]

some of them are eager to learn and do so quickly

So, once again, I ask What the fuck are [insert your location here] middle schools teaching then?

[Spoonman.]

Nothing. It's terrifying.

[insert your location here] is Houston, for reference.

[SFC B]

I was an Army recruiter in Arizona for three years (no, I'm not the one who tried to enlist this guy), and I can tell you that the schools in AZ are teaching them nothing. We had a HS senior who was in the top 3% of her graduating class who could not pass the ASVAB despite multiple attempts. Some of the schools there are really and truly broken.

[Mongo]

I had to take bonehead math in college. The course taught us gambling odds: dice, card counting, etc. It was fantastic!

Finally, a real-world application for math.

[Zeb]

Jesus. Frum is as retarded as the British press. At least all of his commenters seem to know he is full of shit.

[-]

History Channel axes mean Kennedy miniseries. Says it doesn't fit their brand. Denies heavy Kennedy family lobbying effort to kill it. Tonight's HC prime-time lineup: Four hours of Pawn Stars and American Pickers.

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/tv/stor.....eries.html

[generic Brand]

History Channel is to history now what TLC is to learning. Here's a hint: watching midgets for an hour or two does nothing to educate me on how "people-like" they are. If I want to watch retarded people I watch Sunday Night Football with Collinsworth and Michaels.

[Meany]

I come to H&R.

[Nick]

Oh come on, they aren't nearly as retarded as Joe Buck and Troy Aikman. It sucks they're doing the Super Bowl this year.

[Slut Bunwalla]

So has anyone else noticed that the fact that Loughner killed a republican federal judge has gone pretty much unmentioned since the story originally broke? Guess it doesn't fit the narrative that he was a tea-bagging right-winger.

[Johnny Longtorso]

"9/11 Truther, fan of Marx, kills Republican Judge" is just as valid a headline as any we've seen.

[Solanum]

A hysterical Andrew Sullivan on a Jesse Kelly campaign event in which voters were invited to "shoot a fully automatic M-16" with him to symbolize his assault on her campaign:

There is one word for this kind of worship of gun violence: sick. There are two very powerful and competing notions of conservatism at play here: one is about violence; the other is about non-violence. And the reaction on the right so far suggests they have not the slightest notion that there is anything wrong about their fixation on physical force.

Christ, just shut the fuck up, Andy.

[Cliche Counter]

One gun death is one gun death too many.

[R C Dean]

I would say it depends on who dies, myself.

[SFC B]

I usually read The Atlantic for Mr. McCardle's wife, but I'll check out their other writers as well. Sullivan is just unreadable.

It's interesting, if you scroll through Sullivan's writing on the day Judge Roll and the others were murdered, as soon as the reports that Loughner wasn't clearly a Right-Wing Tea Party member, he suddenly toned down his rhetoric. But until that point it was all "Palin is responsible". Clearly he's now returned to his schtick, but for a brief moment on Saturday he seemed to be aware that there was a good chance his whining was going to come back and bite him.

[Virginia]

Iceland recovering. Ireland says, "Hey, if they can f*ck their creditors and survive, then maybe we can too."

Portugal failing.

[Brett L]

Wait, if you allow banks to fail the crisis is short, painful, and over? Nobody tell Krugman.

[Butler T. Reynolds]

David Frum does a great job of reminding me why I'm not a Republican/Conservative.

[Steve]

David Frum does a great job of reminding me why I'm not a Republican/Conservative. Moderate/No-Labels Type of guy.

FTFY

[P Brooks]

8.5.4.a. develop meaning of mutually exclusive events

Political assassination =/= Heroism

Fail.

[Mongo]

I thought being born on the Holy Day of Sept 11, 2001 gave one magical powers. Guess not....

[orrible bastard]

It hasn't been three days yet.

What?

[Mongo]

It's for the 9/11 fetishists out there.

A million fuckin' Chinese were born on the same date.

[Steve]

A tiny bit of good news:

Kasich Eyes Privatizing Ohio Liquor Control Agency

...and a road.

Back to the craziness...

[Rhywun]

It may be that the Frum article seems to have what might be the most equivocation about any topic, evar.

[Savings Bonds Rates]

Jared Lee Loughner is charged with murder and attempted murder. Dumbest reaction to the Tucson shootings: top seed, punditry division.
--------
Demin Martin