Who Is More Macho, 2010 Edition

Whether you're a student of presidential sports history or just a fan of President Obama's feats of fleetfooted derring-do, tremble for your nation as you compare these two executive bike pics:

Courtesy of KayDeeBama.

As a devout Solanist, I believe men are the problem, and I'm generally happy when presidents eschew the kind of alpha male bullshit that was George W. Bush's stock in trade. But looking at these two photos, boy, I'm starting to rethink that position.

Related: Do we really want a president who throws like a girl?

Update: Thanks to commenter Tulpa for noting that Pres. Bush is wearing sissy purple gloves, and to P Brooks for demonstrating why both presidents are in fact pussies. Reason's comment threads, as always, are a frequently embarrassing delight.

Comments

[P Brooks]

Only pussies wear helmets.

[SIV]

+10000

[Tulpa]

I liked the Stossel 20/20 vignette where he showed that dressing up as a woman actually makes you safer than wearing a helmet, because cars slow down more and stay further away from you.

[SIV]

no homo

[SIV]

Vladimir Putin on a Harley, no helmet of course
It is a trike though.

[sage]

He's almost satiric in his badassedness. Here's the Rokudan hunting gray whales with a crossbow.

[Episiarch]

No homo

[BakedPenguin]

No homo? What about "Tired Gay succumbs to Dix"?

[AlmightyJB]

I'm sure there is a limit on your "no homos". I think one time a year usage is more than adequate. 'Cause really, using "no homo" all of the time is pretty homo.

[x,y]

Putin on a real bike:

http://boston.barstoolsports.c.....kin-putin/

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Their guy vs. our guy.

[Irresponsible Hater]

"Who is more macho?"

It just doesn't sound right in English.

"Quien Es Mas Macho?" es major.

[robc]

+many

[robc]

Smoke Rings

[Neu Mejican]

First thing I thought of.
The most patriotic album of all time?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....esLive.jpg

[robc]

I would have linked the original SNL skit, but couldnt find a clip of it available.

[The Man]

"es mejor" gringo.

[Quien y]

donde estas los anclas bebitos?

[MWG]

Go back to Mexico!

[George V]

Ricardo Montalban

[Government of Wolves]

Not Pictured (A): The Whip of Rahm.

Nor Pictured (B): The Whip of Cheney.

[P Brooks]

Laura Tyson believes in magic.

Consider how the unemployment rate varies by education level: it's more than 14 percent for those without a high school degree, under 10 percent for those with one, only about 5 percent for those with a college degree and even lower for those with advanced degrees. The supply of college graduates is not keeping pace with demand. Therefore, more investment in education could reduce both the cyclical unemployment rate, as more Americans stay in school, and the structural unemployment rate, as they graduate into the job market.

[mr simple]

Wait, so correlation doesn't equal causation?

[Irresponsible Hater]

Dude, alt-text aside, the bike is not irrelevant. Bama's on a GIRL'S BIKE.

He got a 'gina in there or what?

[Tulpa]

Is that a girl's bike? I can never tell.

The bike Obama's on has to be either a hybrid or a mountain bike; the camera angle makes his tires look thinner than Bush's, but that may not be so. (Also the position of his feet in the pedalling cycle makes the tires look shorter.)

Then there's the fact that the environment he's in looks less "rugged" and the bike looks cleaner. He's also wearing less "rugged" looking clothing but that might have to do with different seasons during which the picture was taken (I can't imagine Bush wearing that outfit in the Texas summer).

So, the differences are pretty incidental when you consider them carefully. This comparison is just cherry-picking to reinforce one's previously existing beliefs, just like Dukakis in the tank and Carter with the killer bunny.

[SIV]

Obama looks like he is pedaling to a friend's house to play Barbies while they listen to Justin Bieber.

[Tulpa]

This might just be a case of seeing what you want to see, SIV. I too laughed at B-O in that picture until I started breaking down carefully what I was seeing. I want to see him fall off the presidential bike as much as you (and hopefully his electoral helmet is put on wrong so he gets a political concussion).

[Tiger Beat Subscriber]

I loves me some Justin Bieber.

No homo.

[Neu Mejican]

Indeed. The two bikes are almost identical in the "girl's bike" department (a reference to the angle of the top of the frame, I assume). Obama's looks a little undersized for his height and certainly has smaller wheels.

[Neu Mejican]

Need to put them both on bromptons and then compare, perhaps.

http://www.brompton.co.uk/

[toxic]

It's not a mountain bike.

It looks like a Trek Navigator, so its some sort of comfort bike (a bike designed for comfortable riding, not speed or off-road capacity). Basically its the kind of bike a urban yuppie would use to go to Whole Foods or cruise around on a bike trail. That impression is bolstered by the fact that he's dressed like a preppie. Bush, on the other hand, looks like getting some bike grease on his shorts wouldn't ruin his picnic.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en.....00pluswsd/

[Tulpa]

Self-respecting owners of such bikes, such as myself, refer to them by their original name: hybrid bikes, not comfort bikes. The latter appellation is indeed intended to appeal to effete yuppies, I agree, which is a shame. They're more rugged and "grippy" than racing bikes, so you don't wipe out taking shortcuts over grass, gravel, or bumpy ground, but much faster on pavement than mountain bikes. Perfect for people who need a bike for transportation, not recreation...which includes neither President.

[Lowdog]

No, that is a 'comfort bike' that Obama is riding. A hybrid bike is more like a cross between a road and a mountain bike. I know, because I just bought myself a new hybrid, while my mother and girlfriend just bought new comfort bikes.

So that pretty much makes Obama a girly-man. Anecdotally.

[prolefeed]

Nope. Try to justify it all you want, it's pretty clear from the picture that Obama rides like a little girl.

OK, it's not a pink bike with white tires and tassles off the handlebars, but everything else is totally pussified.

[RSDavis]

Pacific Cycle Schwinn Coronado Women Comfort Bike

http://cheapcomfortbike.namzet.....ch-wheels/

[Irresponsible Hater]

OK, maybe I misread the angle of the top of the frame. I thought it was sloped to allow for a woman's dress to drape over it without flashing beev.

Still, he looks like a wanker.

Maybe it's because at this angle, the rims look like the white-walls of a kid's bike's tires.

Maybe it's because he's wearing his "outdoors" short sleeves like a pod-person that's been dressed up by his handlers.

Maybe it's because it looks like he's a buck o five and slight breeze could knock him over.

Maybe it's because he throws like a girl.

Maybe it's because he's wearing sneakers.

Maybe it's because he's an adult riding a bicycle.

Whatever. Verdict: TOOL.

[toxic]

Ladies bikes have the same basic shape. It all depends on the purpose of the bike. I suspect the sloped top tube is to make it easier to mount and dismount the bike, since the high bar requires some flexibility to get over and can cause some crowding of the gonads.

[Jim]

Your daughter called she wants her bike back.

[?]

Does Putin wear a helmet?
No.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/f.....putin2.jpg

[Jack]

Is it just me, or is Putin becoming more of a James Bond villain with every passing day?

[?]

It's not just you, and we shouldn't let our naive and inexperienced president anywhere near the guy. And no, I'm not talking about JFK.

[BakedPenguin]

Well, Bush looked into his eyes and saw his beautiful soul, so maybe we shouldn't let any Presidents near the fuckin' guy.

[mr simple]

Did Bush say no homo after that? Because then it would be okay.

[?]

I'm pretty sure Bush II is not a "no homo" retard. But I digress. What BP said. Putin is radioactive. Keep all our presidents away, and our womenfolk as well.

[Woodrow]

I'm sure Bush going into a scathing insult ridden rant about Putin would have made all his left wing critics praise his truth telling.

[BakedPenguin]

How about some political speak? "We continue to be concerned about many of the domestic policies Mr. Putin pursues, especially with regard to the media... blah, blah, blah."

Except Bush (or Obama, for that matter) can't really say that, because they want to obfuscate as much as Putin does. They just have a harder time getting away with it.

[?]

a scathing insult ridden rant

You may be confusing international diplomacy with blog commentary. We expect more from our presidents.

[12]

Does Putin need a third wheel.
Yes.

[Fluffy]

Well, Karl Rove once said that Obama is like a guy at a party wearing a dinner jacket, smoking a cigarette and drinking a martini, and making cutting remarks about everyone else at the party.

That might not be very macho, but I fucking wish we had a President like that. I'd be delighted to see video of the President drinking a martini and [in a Buckleyesque accent] telling Barney Frank that he doesn't take regulatory advice from sloppy old queens.

[DJ Drugs]

Stop calling me a crypto-Nazi, or I'll sock you in the goddamn face and you'll stay plastered.

[Jim]

I would be happy with a Dean Martin style and accent.

[alan]

Nah. This is more like it. Never lose the scary, America.

The world is deeply confused at the moment now we have a president who is more feminine that his party nominee rival of the lady persuasion.

[alan]

I linked to a dude who believes crying is a means of achieving spiritual catharsis, and even he is more manly than Obama.

As a devout Solanist, I believe men are the problem, and I'm generally happy when presidents eschew the kind of alpha male bullshit that was George W. Bush's stock in trade.

That is a common misinterpretation from the beta males of journalism who never shook the feminist language out of their system long after it worn out its use as a means of getting laid. What George W is actually doing is overcompensating for not being able to handle his liquor.

[alan]

To understand why W is who he is, it helps to recall how he differed from those around him. He grew up in Texas the son of blue bloods descended from the Mayflower with generations of incest forging his genetic makeup. He was born with the stomach lining of a seventy year old man. He grew up in Texas among the descendants of cowboys who on lonely nights on the range fucked snakes, and they fuck alligators and they pleasured their anuses with cacti. Their descendants had leather and mighty tendons of fiber and filament in every cell of their being.

Bush puked up after consuming half a can of Dixie beer, while his cohorts used lit Everclear for their morning gargle.

What could he do? He lead cheers, he flew planes, but it was never enough. He started wars, and he electrified Karla Faye, but it was never enough. He would always be the man who could not handle his liquor.

Never was it anything so deep as issues with his daddy who inspired not a wit. It was always that gleam of tantalizing sour mesh that was beyond his control.

[Tulpa]

One note against the point of the post: Bush is not only wearing those sissy biking gloves, he's wearing purple biking gloves.

[libertymike]

What's wrong with purple?

[AlmightyJB]

"What's wrong with purple?" Yeah, I don't get that either LM. I mean it's a combination of blue and red, what the hell. I've heard people say orange was feminine too, so hard to see how people come up with these associations.

[PapayaSF]

The answer is "it depends." A purple sport coat and Tulpa would have a point. Purple gloves as sports equipment: eh, so what.

[Zeb]

Purple is definitely a girl color. But what is wrong with gloves?

[Hugh Akston]

SRSLY. Go tell the Minnesota Vikings that purple is a girly color.

[Fluffy]

Not only is purple a girl color, it's a teenage girl color.

W should have glitter on his shirt if he's going to wear those gloves.

[Tulpa]

That's deep purple; Dubya's gloves are almost lavender. And Adrian Peterson is kinda iffy.

[IceTrey]

Purple was the color of kings.

[Pope Jimbo]

Purple is the color of Prince, another MN badass.

[Tulpa]

Stuck in the 80s much? Prince would need to ride an even smaller bike in order to reach the pedals.

Purple is forever seared into my, and every other child of the 90s', mind as the color of Barney the Dinosaur.

[Pope Jimbo]

I graduated high school in '85. I grew up in the sticks of MN.

A buddy of mine had a cousin who lived in Minneapolis back then and was huge into Prince before he hit it big with 1999. He told us all about Prince and we bought his early records in a feeble attempt to be hip and cool.

When 1999 and then Purple Rain went huge, it was one of the only times us bumpkins got to feel like we were sort of cool.

[Astra]

He's wearing gloves because he's mountain biking. Try a fall or two without them and you'll understand why they are worn.

[capitol l]

We need a really macho president...let these turrists know whose boss.

[JEP]

let these turrists know whose boss.

What do you have against tourists?

[capitol l]

Gawd, I am such a scrote...who's boss

[BIKER MAN]

Obama does seem to be riding a womens bike. On a womens bike the top tube is angled down towards the seat post so you can ride it wearing a dress. Either way he seems to be riding some kind of shitty cruiser bike. You think he could get a better one than that.

[Neu Mejican]

Nah. Not a "ladies" bike.

http://tinyurl.com/2cargwj

It IS too small for him.

[BakedPenguin]

On a womens bike the top tube is angled down towards the seat post so you can ride it wearing a dress.

Given our relative anatomies, and the fact that women seldom wear dresses today, I've always thought it odd that this didn't get reversed at some point. Certainly, the consequences of a hard landing on that top bar are worse for men than women.

[BakedPenguin]

Come to think of it, I could have linked to an Idiocracy clip for that, too.

[capitol l]

Ow! My Balls

Great show.

[Joshua Corning]

Video no related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS8UXVsIiP4

[Barb]

Baked, Have you ever bruised your vagina?

[capitol l]

Fess up Mr. Penguin,inquiring minds want to know.

[BakedPenguin]

I can honestly say that's never happened, and the probability of it ever occurring is quite low.

I was thinking of an event that happened in grade school. I knew a kid who went off a jump on his bike and landed bad. He got a ruptured scrotum and was in the hospital for ten days. He didn't walk right for six months or so.

[A girl]

Ouch. I was going to comment about how painful urination is for a day or so after a bad bicycle accident clit-crush, but I think I'll just shut up now.

[fish]

No no...please I'd really like to hear more! Reeally!

[Tulpa]

Obama does seem to be riding a womens bike. On a womens bike the top tube is angled down towards the seat post so you can ride it wearing a dress.

In that case, Bush's bike is a ladies' bike too!

For a commenter called Biker Man, you don't seem familiar with how bikes are constructed these days.

[P Brooks]

The nightmare which is Sarah Palin.

Since the 2008 election, progressive leaders have done little to address the obvious national appetite for female leadership. And despite (or because of) their continuing obsession with Ms. Palin, they have done nothing to stop an anti-choice, pro-abstinence, socialist-bashing Tea Party enthusiast from becoming the 21st century symbol of American women in politics.

What makes this all the more frustrating, of course, is that progressives helped to give Ms. Palin her start; her political career was a natural outgrowth of feminist successes. As a teen, she played basketball thanks to Title IX; as an adult, she enjoyed a professional life made possible by the involvement of her load-bearing husband Todd, entering Alaska's governor's mansion at 42 with four children in tow and giving birth to a fifth while there.

Perpetrated by:
(Anna Holmes is the founding editor of the blog Jezebel. Rebecca Traister is the author of the forthcoming "Big Girls Don't Cry: The Election That Changed Everything for American Women.")

[John]

How does the fact that she played basketball in high school have any bearing on Palin's success? Isn't the story on Palin that she went to all the wrong schools? If she was such an affirmative action baby, she would have gone to Oxidental and Columbia like another affirmative action baby we all know.

[libertymike]

Occidental or Oxidental?

[?]

I think Oxidental was a whitening toothpaste pitched by Billy Mays.

[Occidental]

Ever see that place? It's beautiful, as are the people. I did an admissions tour there, and if I had to do college all over again...

[Hugh Akston]

Go to Whittier instead. You get the same education for less money. The presidential alumni are more entertaining too.

[Just Dropping By]

God rest his soul!

[Tony]

John. Sarah Palin is a moron. Barack Obama is smarter than she is, and a lot smarter than you. Throwing around the affirmative action thing is just racist plain and simple. Besides, where would you be without all those state-mandated special ed classes?

[John]

I haven't looted or bankrupted any countries in my life Tony. So already both Sarah and I are way ahead of BO. And further, I will gladly match my grades in college up against BO's. He has never released his. Why? Becuase he isn't that smart and they would show that he is an affirmative action baby. That is not racist, that is the truth.

[Tony]

He graduated from Harvard Law with a JD magna cum laude, after having been president of the Law Review. Do you know what those Latin words mean?

[John]

I am have some of thsoe Latin words on my degrees as well. So what? He never did anything significant as a lawyer. And as they say, stupid is as stupid does. I don't care what his nominal IQ is, he believes utterly foolish and shallow things. His policies have put millions of people out of work and generations of Americans will be paying the debt he has run up. The man can't put two sentences together without a teleprompter. And he is so stupid and so arrogant that he spent all of his political capital and time pushing a diasterous health care bill while ignoring the worst economy since the 1930s. He is just stupid Tony. When you are 50 years old and still relying on your undergraduate record, you are the definition of an empty suit.

[Tony]

You brought it up, jerk. Which policies have put millions out of work? The jobs started hemorrhaging during the last years of the C-student G.W. Bush's term, with Obama's policies resulting in slow job growth. You can't put two sentences together without at least one of them being a lie.

[Tulpa]

with Obama's policies resulting in slow job growth

You, however, are the master of compound sentence lies.

[Woodrow]

Lefties rely on their undergrad records their whole lives.

[Nooge]

I am have some of thsoe Latin words on my degrees as well.

Dude.

[Tulpa]

Do you know what those Latin words mean?

Yes. They mean "not as good as summa cum laude".

We're judging B.O. by the same standard you're judging Palin; by the decisions he makes and what he says in public. By that standard he's a pretty serious dolt.

[James Anderson Merritt]

"Do you know what those Latin words mean?"

"Can't read the Constitution?"

[hmm]

Do you know what those Latin words mean?

They mean first place looser. (as someone has already pointed out)

[Mr. FIFY]

Tony is saying unless you're a graduate of just the right colleges, AND a Democrat, you're an uneducated bumpkin.

But he's not saying the word "elitist" fits his demeanor.

[Bobchild]

Barack is so smart and shiny and wonderful: Check
Palin is a meany GIRL: Check
Race card: Check
People who disagree with me are retards: Check

Hit all the partisan hack highlight. Very impressive.

[Tony]

How is calling Obama an "affirmative action baby" not racist?

[John]

Because it is the truth. Had he been Asian or Jewish or White, he never would have gotten into Columbia much less Harvard Law School. His record after law school indicates that he wasn't really that good. That makes him an affirmative action baby.

[Tony]

So he graduated magna cum laude, was president of the harvard law review, and got himself elected president.

Sounds like you are making a strong case for affirmative action.

[cynical]

Maybe if you like him as president. If you don't, it sounds more like we would have been better off if he hadn't been able to make it as far as he did.

[Tulpa]

...and proceeded to get only one item on his domestic agenda passed, despite having a House majority and a Senate supermajority for nearly a full year; and that only passed by parliamentary trickery. Meanwhile, his party is going to lose the House and lose seats in the Senate despite the other party being in complete disarray.

Acta, non verba. Do you know what those Latin words mean?

[RyanXXX]

His record on the constitution, despite being an "expert" in constitutional law, also points to a lack of intelligence.

[Joshua Corning]

got himself elected president.

This is the one point i think that does demonstrate his intelligence.

He beat a Clinton in a presidential race.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

An entirely unconvincing argument, Tone-def:

1. In today's educational environment, anyone who doesn't show up at university intending to major in beer-pong, and is capable of parroting the prof's Marxist views without vomiting can make magna cum laude.

2. His position with the HLR was an ELECTED position, which is a reflection on his ability to generate mass appeal, not on intelligence.

3. Ditto

[Mike M.]

Because it is the truth. Had he been Asian or Jewish or White, he never would have gotten into Columbia much less Harvard Law School. His record after law school indicates that he wasn't really that good. That makes him an affirmative action baby.

I agree. Bush went to Harvard also, and oddly I don't ever once recall this being offered as proof of his brilliance.

A Harvard graduate really should know that there aren't 57 states in America, and should know the proper way to pronounce Navy corpsman (it's not "corpseman").

If Obama's grades were particularly impressive, we'd certainly know what they were. He gives a pretty good on teleprompter speech, but off the telemprompter I have never found him to be impressive.

He is far more lucky than he is brilliant.

[John]

Bush was a legacy. No one took his graduation from Harvard as some sign of brilliance. Moreover, even if it was, who cares? Hundreds of people graduate from Harvard every year. Harvard Law Review has an editor every year.

[PapayaSF]

Bush has a Harvard MBA. I don't think they hand those out based on legacies.

[Mr. FIFY]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racist

Go look it up, then backtrack, Tony. Because it's the right thing to do.

[Tony's Dictionary]

ra-cist: Anyone who dares disparage a non-white person.

[Standard Liberal Dictionary]

ra-cist: Anyone who isn't a liberal.

[Tony]

Elitism is good, as long as it's liberal elites. Humans are too stupid to run their own lives, and they have to be told how to live by the only ones who know what's best for us.

[Jeffersonian]

Obama is smarter. Palin is wiser. I'll take wise over smart any day of the week.

[JB]

Tony, STFU and stop defending the first Affirmative Action President.

There is a reason he didn't release his tests scores. He got into the schools on the color of his skin, not the content of his character.

He's above average, but likely below Bush and Gore in the IQ department.

Affirmative action at those schools is dramatic; they will let in "preferred minorities" (read: black and hispanic) with test scores 50% below others (whites, asians, indians).

[Tony]

Are you like 80? I hope so. Perhaps you'll die soon and the world will be released of the burden of your ridiculous rationalizing for the stupidity that infests the party you support.

[PapayaSF]

Barack Obama is smarter than she is

Are you sure? Really? Even after seeing this picture?

[P Brooks]

is Putin becoming more of a James Bond villain with every passing day?

All he needs is a Siberian tiger on a leash.

Tigers don't need no frickin' lasers, neither.

[JoshINHB]

Like this

http://www.google.com/imgres?i.....29,r:0,s:0

[JEP]

Man, I read some of the stuff from that Solanist link. It's pretty harsh, but it's really easy to refute everything said.

ie, Any kind of authority is going to be reduced to an ability to use physical violence. Men are biologically different than women. One of those differences is an ability to gain much more physical strength than a woman, thanks to testosterone, which makes men capable of a greater amount of physical violence, in general.

Mentally, men and women are equal, however society tells us that women, in general, prefer to go into fields that aren't science and engineering. Citation: Walk into an engineering classroom. I can think of no reason for this other than society pressuring females into pre-defined roles, and it's a damn shame.

In short, the Solanist manifesto is one-sided and is the equivalent of that poster from despair.com than has a picture of a brunette in a bikini with the caption "Women: Something to stick your dick in."

I'm going to go practice my male gaze...

[JEP]

All those people who say that if we had women in charge of everything, we wouldn't have wars.

Counterargument: http://i.imgur.com/4NOB6.gif

[Warty]

Look at that beautiful use of the hips to throw her enemy. I'm in love.

[libertymike]

As she was acting in defense, she did not violate the non-aggression principal. Your lust has my blessing.

[robc]

The fact that she was still in the game at the point was the most amazing part. She had about 5 clear yellow card fouls before that (and 1 borderline red).

[LeSigh]

Yes, but that's just men's fault, too. I thought the brunette was the hotter of the two until the brunette was eating dirt. Now I'd be more likely to choose the aggressive blonde as a mating partner, thus contributing to a more aggressive female gender.

[prolefeed]

i'd go with the brunette. women with anger management issues might be fun in bed, but the rest of the time: hard to take.

[Tulpa]

Mentally, men and women are equal

I'll note that you ignore the fact that women have greater flexibility and stamina than men on average; it's not so much that men are superior to women physically as that their strengths lie in different areas. As much as I hate to channel Larry Summers, it's possible that men and women have different areas of mental strengths as well.

As for your engineering class comment, note that this is after many years of society explicitly encouraging women to enter science and engineering. If you have a vagina, a pulse, and a decent GRE score, you're going to get admitted to some top science and engineering PHD programs ahead of men with superior credentials.

One of the females who earned her doctorate the same year as me at Penn had a thesis that resembled a moderately strong undergraduate senior project, and her thesis was published in some no-name journal...and she immediately got three offers for tenure track jobs at good colleges. Meanwhile, us dumpy white boys who got published in leading journals were scrounging for postdocs anywhere we could find them. Not to mention the foreign guys who got even slimmer pickings. It's not a matter of societal discouragement anymore.

[JEP]

it's not so much that men are superior to women physically as that their strengths lie in different areas.

Yes, women can obviously be better than men at certain things, physically. But as far as generating brute power goes, women who aren't taking testosterone have no chance. If you take a look at weight training and/or powerlifting competitions, a females 3-rep max(the most weight she can move for 3 repetitions) is going to be much closer to her 1-rep max than a male's would be. This is because testosterone affects motor nerve recruitment allowing males to use more motor neurons for an all out max effort. Females don't have as much testosterone, so they are physically incapable of this.

And yes, women can also different areas of mental strength, however that SCUM manifesto portrayed men as complete idiots incapable of a logical thought, and I was just pointing out that the majority scientists, engineers, doctors, etc are male, so the manifesto can't be right.

note that this is after many years of society explicitly encouraging women to enter science and engineering

Yep, and it hasn't done much good. I'm convinced it's a social thing though.

You're getting me all depressed. I'm about to start apply for grad school, and your story isn't very encouraging.

[DJ Drugs]

My mother had the SCUM Manifesto lying around when I was little. It terrified me, thinking I'd be the victim of a y chromosomal holocaust perpetrated by angry ladies.

[Tulpa]

The past two years '09-'10 were absolutely terrible for stipended graduate admissions, due to university endowments being depleted and state governments tightening the strings. This year looks like it could be better because most endowments have recovered. The state unis are still going to be stingy, though.

That actually may be a good thing for you, because there aren't going to be as many PhD's ahead of you in line when you graduate since the classes immediately preceding you were relatively small. My story occurred just after the 90s boom petered out, so there was a huge surplus of fresh PhD's out there at the time.

[prolefeed]

I was just pointing out that the majority scientists, engineers, doctors, etc are male

i believe women are now either the majority of doctors, or close to it when you consider those in the med school pipelines.

[BakedPenguin]

JEP: background on Valerie Solanas aka 'the woman who shot Andy Warhol'.

[Ernie the Bear]

To read the SCUM Manifesto, you would automatically think she's totally bat-shit crazy, but then you find out she shot Andy Warhol, so she did have moments of lucidity, at least that once.

[Jeffersonian]

A stopped watch is right twice a day.

[Ernie the Bear]

A stopped watch Shooting Andy Warhol is right twice a day.

[Stormy Dragon]

In the future, everyone will shoot Andy Warhol for fifteen minutes.

[Koba, Too]

+BANG!

[Torontonian]

JEP,

"Mentally, men and women are equal, however society tells us that women, in general, prefer to go into fields that aren't science and engineering. Citation: Walk into an engineering classroom. I can think of no reason for this other than society pressuring females into pre-defined roles, and it's a damn shame."

You're assuming that men and women are mentally equal.

This or this might lead you reconsider that assumption.

Or you could just ignore them and go on believing whatever's most comfortable for you.

[JEP]

I'm not particularly impressed by SAT scores, or standardized tests in general. They normally just tell you that you're good at taking tests instead of measuring how much you actually know.

I have two older sisters who spent their childhood kicking my ass at pretty much everything we competed at. My oldest sister went to Harvard for undergrad, LSE for a masters, and is now in law school. She's a genius when it comes to writing, rhetoric, speaking, etc but she couldn't pass calculus. OTOH, I'm a decent writer with no literary creativity, but I'm in engineering and I enjoy reading books on math in my spare time.

Bottom line, I refuse to accept the "I'm not going into math, science, or engineering because I'm a girl and guys are so much better at it" card.

If we were talking about races instead of sexes, and you linked a study showing that african americans scored lower on average than caucasians in the SATs, I wouldn't interpret that as saying "Caucasians are smarter than African Americans." There are other factors to take into consideration other than intelligence. Social pressures are one of those factors.

[Torontonian]

"If we were talking about races instead of sexes, and you linked a study showing that african americans scored lower on average than caucasians in the SATs, I wouldn't interpret that as saying "Caucasians are smarter than African Americans." There are other factors to take into consideration other than intelligence. Social pressures are one of those factors."

The only social pressure that's obvious here, is your fear of being labeled a racist/sexist for observing objective, unambiguous facts and accepting the most reasonable conclusion--that not all individuals are equally mentally adept, and the differences are significant when compared across races and genders.

I'm sure you're fine with accepting that physical stature, athletic ability (speed, strength, power, endurance, agility, flexibility, balance), life expectancy, susceptibility to certain diseases, and a myriad of other physiological characteristics display significant differences across race and gender. You don't feel a need to invent external, social factors to explain away these differences.

Why won't you accept the same for cognitive ability (which at its most basic level is a neurological function)? Intelligence is an intrinsic characteristic which ON AVERAGE differs significantly across races and genders. Specifically... ON AVERAGE men are slightly smarter than women; and Whites are smarter than Latinos and Blacks, but less smart than Asians.

You won't accept it because such a belief is considered morally repugnant, despite being factually supported by an abundance of evidence.

It's one of those unspoken truths that everybody knows, but nobody talks about in public (myself included) for fear of what consequences might arise.

Just ask Larry Summers.

[JEP]

Unlike physiology and genetic differences between races and sexes, "intelligence" is not particularly objective. You have to standardize it in order to compare results and have a large enough sample size. The results of standardized tests such as the SAT, etc don't tell how intelligent you are. They tell you how good you are at taking the SAT.

Furthermore, the SAT stats from 2008 show that the difference between male and female differ by a total of 24 points out of 2400. You're not going to convince anyone that males are intrinsically more intelligent than females with a difference of 1%

I'm not afraid of being labeled a racist or a sexist. I'm just wise enough not to make the blanket statement "Guys are smarter than girls" or "Whites are smarter than blacks" when I know very well that there are socioeconomic factors that should be taken into account that aren't considered in idiotic "metrics" for intelligence such as SAT scores.

[Torontonian]

"...the SAT stats from 2008 show that the difference between male and female differ by a total of 24 points out of 2400. You're not going to convince anyone that males are intrinsically more intelligent than females with a difference of 1%"

First of all, your 1% calculation of the mean difference is incorrect. The 2008 mean total SAT score was 1511, so a difference or 24 points is 1.6%, which taken over a sample size of 1,518,859 is statistically significant.

Looking specifically at the Math scores (which are more relevant to university admissions for engineering programs), the male/female difference is 33 points (533 vs. 500) on a total population mean of 515. That's a 6.4% difference. And because the college board goes so far as to provide Math score standard deviations for the entire population (116), as well as the male (118) and female (111) segments we can calculate exactly how significant the difference is, and the probability of a random female and a random male scoring in the 90th percentile.

Given a sample size of 1,518,859 and a SD of 116, the standard error in this sample is 0.0941. A difference of 33 points is 350x larger than the standard error. There is effectively zero probability that a difference that large could be due to chance. (A difference of only 1.96x the standard error is generally considered the threshold for statistical significance at the 95% confidence level).

Looking at percentile scores, given a mean score of 515, and a standard deviation of 116 (and assuming a normal distribution) a score of 664 represents the 90th percentile.

Since males have a mean score of 533 with a SD of 118, there is a 13.4% probability that a random male will score at least 664. For females, with a mean score of 500 and a SD of 111, the probability scoring 664 or better is only 7.0%. In other words, males are nearly twice as likely as females to achieve a 90th percentile SAT math score.

So, I don't have to convince anyone of anything... the data and some basic statistics manage to do so all by themselves.

"The results of standardized tests such as the SAT, etc don't tell how intelligent you are. They tell you how good you are at taking the SAT... I know very well that there are socioeconomic factors that should be taken into account that aren't considered in idiotic "metrics" for intelligence such as SAT scores."

Then let's set aside the SAT scores, which you consider a poor proxy for intelligence, and consider IQ test scores, which measure intelligence directly.

Almost all IQ tests show a very small, (sometimes insignificant) gap in mean IQs, typically favoring men, however they show a significant difference in variability, with men over-represented at both the extreme high and low ends of the distribution.

From a 1995 study: "An analysis of mental test scores from six studies that used national probability samples provided evidence that although average sex differences have been generally small and stable over time, the test scores of males consistently have larger variance. Except in tests of reading comprehension, perceptual speed, and associative memory, males typically outnumber females substantially among high-scoring individuals."

That high end of the IQ distribution is where most engineers, scientists and mathematicians are drawn from, so you shouldn't be surprised to see men overrepresented in these fields. The more advanced the field, and the higher the bar for success, the greater the gender imbalance will be. At the very extreme end, consider the Nobel Prizes in Physics, Chemistry or Medicine, or the Fields Medal for Mathematics. You might be able to count the total number of female recipients on two hands. Conversely, the gender difference in IQ variance also explains why males are heavily over-represented in special needs classes.

Or is all of this just "social pressures"?

[Rush]

Women tend to think from the heart, men with their brain and feminazis think with their dick.

[prolefeed]

You're assuming that men and women are mentally equal.

This or this might lead you reconsider that assumption.

Not buying this. Note how ethnicity and family income levels have MUCH wider swings than men v. women. Now, unless the men and women have the same average distributions by ethnicity and family incomes, it could be that after adjusting for those, the women outscore the men.

Notice also that this is anything but a random sampling of the entire population. It has huge self-selection bias built right in.

[prolefeed]

"Not buying this. Note how ethnicity and family income levels have MUCH wider swings than men v. women. Now, unless the men and women have the same average distributions by ethnicity and family incomes, it could be that after adjusting for those, the women outscore the men."

The only way this could be true is if the population of women writing the SAT had a significant over-representation of poor students or non-Asian minorities. I can see no plausible reason why that might be the case.

And would you be willing to bet $100 against me that even after holding the male/female populations constant for ethnicity, the difference in SAT math scores will persist?

[Torontonian]

Whoops... accidentally typed your name in the wrong spot.

[James Anderson Merritt]

I agree that the SCUM Manifesto was fairly disturbing -- or more properly, the idea that more than a small handful of people were walking around, embracing such ideas in their heads.

Given the vitriol in and shrillness of the piece, I'm wondering why it wasn't originally the "SCUM Womynifesto."

It is clear that society has pushed men toward careers in science and women away from them, and that attempts to do the opposite haven't fared well. My own explanation for this is that evolution has favored focused concentration in males and multi-tasking in females, though members of either sex have shown themselves to be endowed with either or both qualities. Having a lot of multi-tasking ability and good reserves of physical stamina suit women well to care for the children that they produce. Having a lot of ability to focus and concentrate suits men well for the building and providing activities that complement their typical physical strength. That's just how it seems to me. But if that's true, it would certainly predispose women for "busier," less focused or structured occupations, and men for occupations, such as science, in which the ability to stick to task or follow a strict procedure consistently determines the difference between success and failure. On the other hand, women are traditional weavers and men traditionally excel on the chaotic battlefield. I don't expect there is an easy answer, but I also believe that real differences between the sexes influence choices of both vocations and avocations. It's not just society that pushes us into traditional roles.

[Joshua Corning]

The SCUM manifesto is a parody.

[Peetsker]

president Urkel

[Maverick]

Maybe that's the only bike loaned out for trips to Gay Head. No homo.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Another point of comparison: President Obama appears to be taking advantage of a taxpayer-funded roadway, whereas President Bush seems to be destroying the environment by going offroad.

[Put the brakes on, Timmy]

Barry is puttering along on a level paved path and still has his hand on the brake.

[?]

He probably thinks it's the clutch.

[prolefeed]

He's likely never driven a car with a clutch.

[P Brooks]

Look at that beautiful use of the hips to throw her enemy.

And she maintains a perfect "Who, me?" face the whole time. Very impressive.

[P Brooks]

Occidental or Oxidental?

Oberlin!!!

[bagoh20]

"alpha male bullshit" Using this phrase is the feeble call of the pussy. It's part of a set including: "Please don't hurt me." "Someone should do something about that!" and "You go first, I got your back."

[Hugh Akston]

Isn't it about time for your protein shake?

[bagoh20]

Yea, I know, and my pickup truck is just compensation for my small manhood?

[sage]

No, your tiny dick.

No homo

[Pls]

Calling other men 'pussy' is the feeble call of the douche.

[DJ Drugs]

I don't think Obama is on a girls' bike; I think it's just too small for him and the seat is hiked way up.

[bagoh20]

More damming then. The people he has hired are fools, and he's clueless enough to trust them.

You would never get me on that bike, and I don't even have my own people.

[Tulpa]

That's an illusion created by the low junction of the crossbar and seat tube, and the fact that Obama is at the top of his pedaling stroke (while Bush has his feet even). They're practically riding the same bike, people.

[Terr]

Are you being sarcastic? Those bikes aren't the same at all.

[DJ Drugs]

All presidents are evil.

[Tulpa]

In every significant structural way that can be determined from the photos, they are similar. They both have the downward sloping crossbar, they both have the seat at the same level as the handlebars, they both have the top foot in line with the top of the tire, etc. It's hard to tell whether Obama's bike is a hybrid or a mountain bike from the angle of his photo, but so what? Lots of real men (including me) ride hybrids. There's no point dealing with the extra rolling resistance of a mountain bike if you're not going over rough terrain.

[Tulpa]

Also Bush is wearing a jacket and shorts at the same time, another reliable indicator of idiocy.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

You are assuming that we agree with your self assessment as a "real man".

[Hugh Akston]

They're practically riding the same bike, people.

I've been saying this since Obama entered office.

[Tulpa]

...and the sad fact is, we are that bike.

[bagoh20]

Obama's white half is really screwing him over. No self-respecting black man would get caught looking like that. Maybe it's an attempt to pander to the soccer-mom vote by looking like one.

[Jay]

I can't pass up the opportunity to post this link and be on topic...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd63P7mYXzo

[P Brooks]

He graduated from Harvard Law with a JD magna cum laude, after having been president of the Law Review.

Shorter Tony: "Go 'way! Batin'."

[grog]

What the bloody fuck? Who cares about the Royal Biking Poise?

I'll come back when the Kochtopus' minions are pursuing something more interesting. Like exciting trends in toenail fungus.

[Ken Shultz]

"Who cares about the Royal Biking Poise?"

Dude, if you don't see the direct relevance...

Have you seen what Putin's been doing?

http://www.google.com/images?h.....mp;bih=841

He's making our president look like a sissyfag.

[James Anderson Merritt]

Actually, this particular collection of pictures seems like the warm-up to some steaming gay porn.

[Brett L]

Its just because he's European. Their macho and our homo are sometimes only subtly different.

[P Brooks]

Speaking of testosterone-drenched ultimate macho badass motherfuckers, the MotoGP circus is at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. In fifteen minutes.

[Almanian]

....and that little pussy Pedrosa won. Fuck - gotta give it up to the midget - he smoled 'em. Great race by Spies as well, very good race by Lorenzo. Yamaha will be excellent again next year...

[Almanian]

...smoked 'em, even....lulz!

[Ken Shultz]

While shooting Andy Warhol doesn't necessarily mean a person is insane, writing a manifesto like that probably does.

That's like Crazy Person 101. Before you do anything completely crazy, you have to write a manifesto.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

I won't hear a word against Valerie Solanas. She was a Ventnor girl made good.

[dr kill]

Jersey?

[Jeffersonian]

Reading that, my mind is filled with questions. Like who's going to hook up your stereo or kill large insects after you're done cutting us up?

[Mary]

I will.

[PapayaSF]

The goggles, they do nothing!!

[Ken Shultz]

If you don't write a manifesto?

The media will project logic onto whatever crazy thing you did--and that should be completely unacceptable to an honest Crazy Person.

The trick is to insist that it was all for perfectly logical reasons, and that if everyone else knew what you knew--they'd have shot Andy Warhol too! ...but that doesn't come easy.

That's like an upper level course.

[hmm]

So, what you're saying is that after I finish this manifesto I have to do something crazy?

[Joshua Corning]

After the SCUM manifesto circled around my crowd in college my girlfriend told everyone they should write one.

I was the only one who did and everyone loved it but my girl friend and the sole libertarian of the group.

[Hard Boiled]

Liberals are pussies, by and large. Women only sleep with liberal males because they know they can master the neurotic little bitches, and control their lives in return for the favor of some humdrum sex now and then. I'm guessing that goes for the Cosmotarians around here as well.

George Bush the Elder could probably kick Obama's ass. Hell, so could Lara Bush.

[Barack Obama]

Let me be clear.

I am perfectly capable of kicking my own ass.

[Tulpa]

Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, John Edwards,...

[alan]

Bill Clinton was no pussy.

Ted Kennedy did not even qualify as a human so it doesn't matter if he was a pussy, dick or asshole.

John Edwards is the biggest pussy I have ever personally met.

[hmm]

George Bush Senior would just contract the work out to an old work buddy. Why do it yourself?

[George V]

You mean like he did when he was a 17 year old flyer in WW II.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Project much?

[Peetsker]

typical pussy reply

[mattrue]

This sums it up

[Almanian]

That is exquisite

[Joshua Corning]

When Obama pushed for health care reform he stood tall on podiums pointed his finger decisively spoke in a deep voice and said get it done

When Bush pushed for social security reform he sat in a circle and giggled like a cross between a drunk party girl and a hyena. (note hyenas are matriarchal)

Of course there is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4BkzuV0LYE

[sage]

"America today is on bended knee. No homo."

[hmm]

Obama wears more mom jeans than my mom ever did.

[Mom]

Not that there's anything wrong with that, dear.

Now eat your broccoli. And clean your room!

[hmm]

Better behave mom. Or I won't pay the rent.

[Omri]

The reason you know the British Special Air Servicemen are macho is that they drive these adorably cute pink Land Rovers and nobody dares give them shit about it.

As for these two, their biking shows nothing either way. They're riding the same model of bike frame. W is getting a workout out of it, and Obama is clearly just chilling out, which is why he's riding Dutch style, back upright. They're clearly not as macho as the SAS, or else none of you would be commenting here, but they are macho not to give a shit about your comments.

[Max]

Do we really want somebody who can't come up with anything better than this shit writing for Reason? Libertarian standards are in the fucking gutter.

[Joshua Corning]

Welcome to Reason.com weekend where staff members post random bullshit so us in the comment box can hang.

[Tulpa]

The only difference between Tim and Kos is that Tim doesn't try to stretch out his bullshit to book length.

Well, that and Tim has better breath.

[Max]

Like the breath of all libertarians these days, Tim's smells of Ron Paul's cock.

[Tulpa]

Which would only make it all the more disturbing that Kos' breath smells still worse.

[Max]

Mom won't let me suck cock anymore. I have to eat her cookie instead. It makes me cranky because she refuses to douche.

[capitol l]

Good enough to keep you coming back, max.

And that's all that counts.

[Mr. FIFY]

It's fun to watch him come back again and again, after promising to NEVER come back again.

But he's a liberal, and they lie.

[Sidd Finch]

Just for the record, these aren't similar bicycles. Obama's has drum brakes, a skinny fork, more horizontal head angle, and a higher handlebar. It's a comfort bike ferchristsake. NTTAWWT

[PapayaSF]

"Drum brakes"? Those look like calipers on the front wheel to me.

[SIV]

At least Obama's handlers had the good sense to take that pink plastic flowered basket off for the photo-op.

[Charlotte Sometimes]

And switched out the banana seat.

[?]

They left the bell, though.

[Some Guy]

I think that all of us, as a nation, can be happy that neither of them wore spandex bike shorts.

[prolefeed]

Serious bikers wear spandex bike shorts because it keeps the "boys" from getting banged up.

If the choice is between looking a bit less manly while riding, and being a lot less manly when it counts, i'll go with the former.

[WillboAZ]

I agree that the bike tights do come in very handy, I personally wear them under light weight cargos so that I have pockets for all my stuff. The people that ride around every weekend in clothes that make them look like participants in the Tour I'm sure feel cool and macho. But in actuallity it's really lame unless you are sponsored and in a race.

As to the purple glove comment; lame. I have pink ski boots, powder blue skis; I have orange canyoneers rope, yellow gloves and a red and blue dry suit. Point being that I don't care much about the color as long as it's the best gear I can get at the best price. The pussies of the world are concerned about color.

Bottom line: Obama is a sissy. But I would expect Bush to be more macho as prior military, even if it was Air Force.

[GILMORE]

I think technically that's supposed to be, "quien es mas machos?"

From the old SNL skit?

a la, " "quien es mas machos?" Ricardo Montalban....Lorenzo Lamas??

[capitol l]

Off topic:

Judge Nappy is on Fox biz presently.

[capitol l]

Now it's over, and you scrotes missed it to sit here baitin' to presidential pedal porn.

[AA]

You could have narrated it like you do on the Stossel threads for those of us who can't watch it.

[alan]

Who is Judge Nappy (Napolitano?) and who still watches tv?

[Baron Von Ottomatic]

I heard that Putin impregnated a girl by waving at her as his motorcade passed.

Bush looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul; Putin looked into Bush's eyes and saw a heat signature like the Predator.

[Tulpa]

I heard that Putin impregnated a girl by waving at her as his motorcade passed.

That's a good excuse for an unwed pregnant Russian teenage girl to use. It's not like he's going to deny it.

[Vlad Putin]

In formerly-Soviet Russia, bicycle rides you!

[Yakov Smirnov]

No reds turn on right!

[alan]

Nice one Baron. Putin jokes may soon replace Norris jokes.

[Baron Von Ottomatic]

Once is an aberration, twice is a trend...

http://www.streetsblog.org/200.....f-elected/

[jeffrey]

http://i.imgur.com/exFbn.jpg

'nuff said

[Kimmie Woods]

LOL, why do we still reference ex dictator Bush, his Regime is history

http://www.online-privacy.it.tc

[Been]

Wow

[Jerry Fowler]

I never really thought about it that way before.

online-privacy.it.tc

[Jerry Fowler]

I never really thought about it that way before.

online-privacy.tk

[Bingo]

Honestly, thats the perfect bike for him. It's the sort of bike a person rides when they are too pansy to rock a mountain or a road bike and they wrap their decision up in terms like "comfort" and "hybrid". Bravo Obama, perfect choice.

[Tulpa]

Bikeist!

[Bingo]

You have no idea. Since I've posted that comment I've been researching bikes and parts. "Celeste" is the most beautiful color on a bicycle.

[Lowdog]

I mountain bike all the time. I got my hybrid to commute back and forth to school, but to also get some 10+ mile road rides in. I could have gone full road bike, but they're all more expensive, and bikes get stolen from my university a lot.

I still concur that Obama's bike is a girly comfort bike.

[Zefram]

And this kind of crap is why I no longer read reason. I'll stick to Balko's blog.

[Oh, we all know]

how hard it must be to laugh while there are blog comments to make.

[No one...]

shall laugh while others are oppressed

[tx gypsy]

seeing the pic of prez obama, it reminds me of a clip i seen from some peewee herman movie....

[Jason S.]

Bah. If you're a real man, ice cream trikes are the way to go.

Bush and Obama are both co*ksucker$, anyway. And so is your dad.

[Amakudari]

There's always this, of course.

To answer the picture's question: neither. But hey.

[Nemo]

Well, at least we know now that Tim doesn't like his men to be flamboyant. Need someone strong to cradle him on those cold, dark nights.

[John]

I don't like purple at all. Its a cold color and i hate it.

[R C Dean]

I'm late to the party, but let me point out how Harvard Law hands out Latin words on diplomas:

(1) All grading is anonymous - no affirmative action there.

(2) The cum laudes are awarded based on class rank, so no affirmative action there.

(3) If memory serves, the top 10% (roughly 55) get cum laude, the top 5% (roughly 28) get magna cum laude, and the top 1% (roughly, 5) get summa cum laude.

So, the Big O may have gotten into Harvard on aff-ac (entirely possible; admissions was chock-a-block with goals and quotas), but he sure didn't get his magna through aff-ac.

[biff]

And you people call this shit-rag Reason?