Ron Paul on the Mosque: "This is all about hate and Islamaphobia."

Read his statement here. Quite the contrast from his son.

Comments

[SIV]

You're just trolling with more of this Mosque shit.

[.]

But.

[Neu Mejican]

If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred?

RP needs to be careful. He's echoing the views of those radicals...Rauf and Glenn Beck.

[Pro Libertate]

I am utterly flabbergasted by the legs this story has. Why is this news? Why is this worthy of being a political football? Just about everyone admits there's no legal recourse for any level of government.

Next!

[SugarFree]

The answer is: August.

Nothing else to talk about. The 24 news networks are probably going to kidnap a little blond girl if some twat doesn't save them the trouble by doing it first.

[MP]

Gee, it's not like there's an election in three months that has the potential to radically shift the power spectrum in DC.

There's plenty of hard news to report. It's just not as "passionate" as this mosque crap.

[sage]

I haven't seen any drawings of the proposed mosque...it's going to look like a dookie?

[TrickyVic]

I agree.

It's about political posturing in an area where the republicans feel strong. 9/11.

[Psychic Octopus]

The Republicans, at least, the tea-friendly ones, are doing all right. It's more the traditional Republican elite that feels threatened and probably like the exposure they get. Of course, this also allows the Dems to paint themselves in property-loving shades.

[TrickyVic]

""this also allows the Dems to paint themselves in property-loving shades.""

Ha. The dems couldn't paint themselves as anything if Bill Clinton bought the finger paint himself. They suck that bad right now.

Maybe right now is a little generous.

[Kelly]

Dems are definitely hurting right now and this is a reason why. They even hate the the Do Not Call Registry

[Pro Libertate]

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

[sage]

I heard some dude quit his stewardess job by stealing some beer and sliding down the escape chute like he was at a McDonald's playland.

[Pro Libertate]

Which was one of the greatest stories of the year. I'd be okay if they talked about that for a month or two. And gave the guy his own show.

[sage]

And gave the guy his own show a Senate seat.

That's more like it.

[Pro Libertate]

Oh, man, that would be so awesome. I'd hate the Congress a little less with Steven Slater and Alvin Greene in the Senate.

[JW]

Just think what State of the Union addresses would become.

[sage]

"YOU LIE! And yo' breath stank!"

[Alvin Greene]

Dat's funny. The great thing about my candidacy is I'd be packin' my bags fo' Washington, bithces, if I was running for the House. Let's say Clyburn was stepin' aside, I'd win in a landslide. I di'nt even mean for that shit to rhyme, yo.

[BakedPenguin]

I like that slogan. It's positively infectious.

[sage]

Props fo' gettin' it.

[Neu Mejican]

I think the interesting thing about this story is how it illustrates the power of partisan media outlets to shape the political discourse. After having first covered this with a relatively positive if underwhelming response, Fox News later saw an opportunity to turn this into another "us-versus-them" issue and started cranking out misinformation at an impressive rate. The scary thing to me is the number of people who buy into their version of the narrative when so many of the "facts" they roll out are so easily shown to be distortions, out-right lies, or crazy conspiracy theories. MSNBC does the same thing on other issues, of course, with a similarly corrosive effect. A pox on all of them.

[Brandybuck]

You have to admit, it sells. Nothing partisan about it, just pure marketing.

[Neu Mejican]

Brandybuck,

Certainly that is part of it...but what sells is partisanship...so I think "nothing partisan about it"is a bit off the mark.

To what degree it is partisanship over marketing depends upon the outlet, of course.

[wylie]

I think youre into metapartisanship territory there.

[Neu Mejican]

Or is it MEGApartisanship?

[gocart mozart]

"MSNBC does the same thing on other issues, of course, with a similarly corrosive effect. A pox on all of them."

Obligatory bullshit moral equalivancy statement is duly noted.

[Mike M.]

This story is dominating the news so much because it's become a locus for the culture war in America, and also because liberals would understandably rather talk about anything other than the shitty economy and what total miserable failures Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are.

[Neu Mejican]

Wait...you think it is liberals that are keeping this in the news? Really?

Weird. That is not the way it looks to me. I see most of the heat on this coming from conservatives. Although the conservatives have cranked up the heat enough that liberals are starting to react with a "conservatives are at it again" response, I just don't see it as liberals that are keeping this story alive.

[sage]

I just don't see it as liberals that are keeping this story alive.

*shocked face*

[Neu Mejican]

*eyes roll*

[sage]

*charlie horse*

[gocart mozart]

I assume you are implying that only an idiot would think that liberals are making this an issue. Or are you an idiot?

[Neu Mejican]

gocart mozart,

That would be an incorrect assumption.
To quote myself (emphasis added):

"I see most of the heat on this coming from conservatives."

I am commenting on the balance of effort in the two-sided conflict.

[Mike M.]

B.S. Why is Reason now posting about half a dozen blog posts a day on this subject? This isn't a conservative web site.

[Neu Mejican]

Probably 'cuz it gets about 1000 comments for each post...although I don't know if they have counted how many are BBQ recipes.

Like I said...it is just my impression that the heat for this comes from the conservative side. Both in terms of the "it is an outrage" stories and in terms of the "we are being victimized for exercising free speech" and the "our leaders are acting against the wishes of real Americans" stories.

But hey, maybe I am wrong. Maybe right-wing talk radio and Fox are just reacting to all the liberal media coverage that I haven't seen.

[Pro Libertate]

I'd say both sides are enjoying this debate over nothing. Mosquefeld.

I think the right was going to drop this issue until the left decided to try to make it into a we-love-civil-liberties-and-you-don't fight, which allowed the right to characterize it as proof that the left loves America's enemies.

I buy into the left viewing this as being good for them, as it is playing a role in distracting the country from the horror that is our government's fiscal policy and the lesser horror that is the state of our economy. Problem is, of course, that this issue will be non-news by November. And, substantively, few, if any, on the right actually are saying that the government should get involved, which is a fatal flaw in attacking them on civil liberties grounds.

[Neu Mejican]

I'd say both sides are enjoying this debate over nothing. Mosquefeld.

I think the right was going to drop this issue until the left decided to try to make it into a we-love-civil-liberties-and-you-don't fight, which allowed the right to characterize it as proof that the left loves America's enemies.

I think I agree with this...and I think it goes for most of the "outrage of the moment" stories that seem more and more frequent these days. One side manufactures a controversy, they other gets blind-sided and finds at first, but then finds a way to try and twist it to their advantage and you get a feed-back loop that just amplifies the nothingness into an unbearable screech. And while that screech can be pleasant for the audience for awhile, it gets old pretty quick.

[Pro Libertate]

I cannot tell you how tired I am of this sort of crap. Not just the Angry Words of the Day, but also the spinning of everything to the point where the truth is roadkill, irretrievably dead with even the best of modern medical technology.

[Neu Mejican]

Amen to that.

[alan]

I cannot tell you how tired I am of this sort of crap. Not just the Angry Words of the Day, but also the spinning of everything to the point where the truth is roadkill, irretrievably dead with even the best of modern medical technology.

+1 raised Sam Adams at a beer summit.

[Tulpa]

I think the right was going to drop this issue until the left decided to try to make it into a we-love-civil-liberties-and-you-don't fight

No, ProL. How you can look at the series of events here and get that interpretation is beyond me.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, the issue came up a while back and didn't seem to go very far. It seemed to become a fight only when the Democrats took a position. After all, if they'd not bitten at the bait, there wouldn't be a point to the debate.

In fact, there isn't much point to the debate.

[gocart mozart]

I think you are a tool 'Pro Libertate' but that is besides the point.

The fiscal mess was caused by republicans and this issue proves that we 'liberals' care more about property rights and the constitution than you do. LOL! and so on 😉

[Zeb]

Not conservative isn't the same as liberal, assface.

[Neu Mejican]

True dat Zeb,

And while we are on the topic...not agreeing with [fill in blank] does not make one [liberal/fascist/authoritarian].

[robc]

I dont watch any of the news networks, not FOX, not CNN, not MSNBC. So Im only hearing this stuff from other sources - mainly reason.

But, it makes more sense for the liberals to keep it alive. They will do better in November if the election is a mosque referendum.

[robc]

Oh, and since neo-cons are liberals, Im including them.

[Neu Mejican]

robc,

You're confusing me. Who benefits if a neo-con is running against a liberal?

[sage]

Not the voters.

[Neu Mejican]

*rim shot*
*thumbs up*

[Psychic Octopus]

Illegals, and mosques.

[Mo]

Then why is NRO all mosque all the time? They have more posts on this issue every day than H&R has in a week.

[alan]

see the supplemental comment

robc|8.23.10 @ 3:08PM|#

Oh, and since neo-cons are liberals, Im including them.

They only split with the Democrats over Vietnam (it was a lost cause the moment Diem had troops shooting at Buddhist monks) not domestic policy.

[gocart mozart]

Let's hope so. The Republicans may have jumped the shark. We will see.

[gocart mozart]

There is some benefit in not watching the "news" but the greatest win is spouting off on topics with full secureity that you are ignorant and don't care.

[Jim Treacher]

Obama's a conservative now, is he?

[TrickyVic]

No more so than Bush. Whatever that's worth.

[Jim Treacher]

Not a lot.

[gocart mozart]

Jim treacher, aside from still being an idiot, how are you?

[Jim Treacher]

I wouldn't go so far as to call you an idiot.

[slayer of burritos]

It's the gift that keeps on giving for the political class -- it reminds conservatives that they need the GOP establishment to protect them against the hated Turrist, and it reminds liberals that as bad as the government is fucking up all the time, if they don't support the DNC establishment they're siding with all the gun-toting bigots and racists in flyover country.

[gocart mozart]

. . . or siding with the constitution but of course that possibilty did not occur to you.

[Tulpa]

This story is dominating the news so much because it's become a locus for the culture war in America

The culture war must be getting significantly less coherent, then. I have a strong feeling that the mosque builders would be on the Republican side as far as most "culture war" issues go. Though it is funny to see conservatives ripping another group for being against women's rights and gay rights.

[gocart mozart]

Yes, they are screwing the pooch because they think it will help them get elected. The 'scary mooslims' should be their natural allies. Even the 'liberal' muslims would be considered 'conservative' on social issues.

[gocart mozart]

considered by most voters to be 'conservative' on social issues.

[atheist]

No, idiot, liberals are reacting to the "Mosque" story because the protesters look they want to start a pogrom against Muslims. What fucking planet to you live on?

[Cody]

Why is this news? I think RP summed it up pretty well.

"In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.

They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars."

Now that the war propagandists are telling us that we have "won" in Iraq, they are trying to whip the public up into a anti-Muslim frenzy in order to build support for an attack on Iran.

I would certainly like for the media to shut up about the "ground zero mosque," but I don't expect that to happen any time soon. Also, get ready to see hundreds of news stories over the next few weeks about Iran's Big, Scary Predator Drone.

[Pablo]

I agree, it is the neo-con chicken-hawk war mongers who are driving this piece of shit, and they are doing so because they want to distract us from the fact that our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are massive cluster-fucks from which there is no good way to exit. And they are aided and abetted by the left wing statists who do indeed want to distract attention from the failure of Obama's stimulus boondoggles, bailouts, etc to do anything constructive.

[Tulpa]

I don't think there's nearly that much of a coherent plan. It's more the fact that it's an easy way for Republicans to make political hay on an issue that many Americans are stupid about.

[gocart mozart]

Ditto

[It's always 4:20!]

"Just about everyone admits there's no legal recourse for any level of government."

But that hasn't stopped the erecting of a giant straw man that advocates for government intervention in the matter.

[Jim Treacher]

The best way to make people stop talking about something is to talk about how they should stop talking about it.

[Slut Bunwalla]

I posted a facebook status update a few days ago stating that I wished everyone would just fucking shut up about the mosque thing. Like 11 people commented on it. I think I'm the only one who saw the irony in that.

[gocart mozart]

I'll assume you want to keep talking about this then Jimmy.

[Jim Treacher]

Yes, actually. If you can quote me wishing people would shut up about it, please do so.

[gocart mozart]

I'll assume you want to keep talking about this then Jimmy.

[Jim Treacher]

Okay, we heard you.

[gocart mozart]

Pro Libertate, have you seen any 'News" in the last 18 years? Otherwise, you are absolutely correct.

[Fluffy]

Are Ron and Rand trying to good cop / bad cop us?

[gocart mozart]

One is sincere and the other is not.

[atheist]

They are purveyors of differing forms of idiocy.

[rac]

Ron is safe in his district. Rand is running statewide in a very conservative state. Can't let the Democrat get ahead of him on this. "Your winnings sir".

[Applederry]

Clearly, Ron Paul is just an anti-Christian, liberal, Blue Stater that wants to stick it to conservatives.

[Nooge]

That's because "libertarianism" is conveniently whatever bogeyman the right or left happens to need at any particular moment.

[sage]

DRINK!

[gocart mozart]

Yes

[J sub D]

That is the most lucid and intelligent statement of any politician about this manufactured controversy I've read to date. Bravo, Congressman Paul.

Remember, Ron Paul's the lunatic fringe, not Rick Lazio or Harry Reid who've found common ground sacrificing principle for votes. It is they who represent the mainstream "serious" politicians.

[Nooge]

J sub,

C'mon. Harry Reid has no principles to sacrifice.

[Mo]

I believe Harry Reid has the same principles as a weather vane. This is nothing new, for instance, the guy was pro-life until that was politically inconvenient in his party.

[Lamar]

Wouldn't having "weather vane" principles mean that you are voting according to the will of your constituents?

[wylie]

What? Way off Lamar. Weathervane Principles = spinning randomly and sometimes falling off the roof.

[Lamar]

I misunderstood what a weather vane does in the context of politics. My bad.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

will of your constituents donors

[Lamar]

Until somebody offers me cash for my vote, I don't believe that donors make a politician.

[gocart mozart]

That is because you are naive.

[Yonemoto]

the most lucid and intelligent statement of any politician

I dunno this paragraph just seemed to be grafted from one of his stump speeches into the middle of nowhere in his statement.

"The nineteen suicide bombers didn't come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11."

I'm not saying I disagree, but, you know. Not exactly lucid anymore.

[wylie]

I dunno this paragraph just seemed to be grafted from one of his stump speeches into the middle of nowhere in his statement.

Lazy speechwriters.

[Tulpa]

Do you know what "most" means?

[Yonemoto]

do you know what "lucid" means?

[gocart mozart]

Lack of spine or evil intent. This is your choice, for the most part.

[Lamar]

The reason this story has legs is because it exposes conservative hypocrisy and division. Glenn Beck denounces the mosque, but there he was a couple years ago yukking it up with Imam Rauf on TV. GOPers are now climbing over each other to diagnose Terri Schiavo from the Senate floor...or whatever the equivalent here is. This is rank bigotry and hatred, and so far these GOP tool bags haven't stopped to listen to how stupid they sound. And so the story goes on and on, with anybody sane slowing down to watch the car crash.

[grrizzly]

The pro-mosque side is not getting public support though. Wow, denouncing GOP's hypocrisy, bigotry and hatred. Oh my!

[Lamar]

The point is that this story isn't about some mosque in lower Manhattan. This story is about the GOP.

[TrickyVic]

""The point is that this story isn't about some mosque in lower Manhattan. This story is about the GOP.""

And how the GOP doesn't have a plan to unfuck this country.

High unemployment - The Islams are coming

The US debit is at record levels. - This Islams are coming

New levels of government surviellance - The Islams are coming

National health care on the horizon. - This Islams are coming.

A few conservatives get it. We have far greater real problems than this Mosque crap.

[Pro Libertate]

Dear Sirs and Madams:

We are not distracted from your total incompetence.

--The People of the United States

[TrickyVic]

From the collection of letters the voting public would never write?

[Pro Libertate]

I don't think this particular issue is working to distract people from the economic crap. I'm not at all suggesting that we're not collectively retarded.

Can I say that?

[Lamar]

We are all collectively unfucked.

[TrickyVic]

I think Paul is right when he says this is a distraction from the economy.

The GOP has nothing, like the dems not too long ago, they are a party looking for a purpose. It appears, time will tell, they have nothing of substance so they return to 9/11 where they have strong numbers, and the proposed cultural center gives them the ammo. I would like to be wrong about that.

What's the odds that in 2012, Hopey McChange will be the GOP candidate.

[Pro Libertate]

Ye gods, they've been served up an opportunity to put a stake through the progressive movement's heart, but they're just not interested enough in limited government and freeish markets to take up the baton. Fuck them, too.

[TrickyVic]

Sadly, we don't fuck them, they fuck us.

You're right, now is a great time to push limited government and freeish markets. But since both parties support big government, the idea of limited government has become like a fruitcake at Christmas.

[Pro Libertate]

If the LP were worth a shit, they'd be riding high right now.

[Psychic Octopus]

Indeed. Rauf will do more harm to the USA by allowing the row to continue (thus distracting from, you know, actual issues) than whatever harm comes from bowing down to the pressure.

[TrickyVic]

""Rauf will do more harm to the USA by allowing the row to continue""

It takes two side to play. It could just as easily be said that the media is doing harm by continuing to propagate the row.

[Tulpa]

And the lesson is, children, when people make fun of you and call you names and try to bully you, always back down. Standing up for yourself might get someone hurt.

Yeah...that's quite the American spirit there. Go back and hide under your urine soaked bed, the Mooooslims won't be able to hurt you there.

[gocart mozart]

The G.O.P. fucked up this country and they want to fuck it up some more. What else do they have other than hate?

[Howard Dean]

Hi Lamar!

[Lamar]

Caw!

[gocart mozart]

On this issue Howard Dean is still better than most republicans. No real Libertarian will disagree.

[gocart mozart]

Seconded Lamar.

[Neu Mejican]

I must admit this is my favorite commentary on the subject so far.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/wa.....nd-edition

[TrickyVic]

In the same respects, if it's guilt by association, this is the evidence the left needed that Bush is a terrorist.

[capitol l]

Remember that day when the comments looked like blingee, yeah that was awesome.

[Neu Mejican]

While I think the desire to make this a political issue seems to be coming mainly from the right, I think the actual issue defies a left-right dichotomy...or at least emphasizes the hypocrisy inherent in any big-tent political party. Republicans are forced to say "sure, we don't like government telling people what to do with their property BUT..." while Democrats are forced to defend this on a "small government, property rights" basis that would be used against them on issues like, say, indoor smoking bans/carbon caps. No clean ideological divide splits people on this issue.

Of course, the media outlets that are shouting about this don't have a real stake in the issue...just its political impact...so they can turn it into a TEAM RED/TEAM BLUE shouting match, content free, without any worries.

[Psychic Octopus]

The Left would be all against it if they knew that the mosque would be smoked allowed. And that they would serve halal trans fats.

[gocart mozart]

Amazing abality to rationalize bullshit, Kudos Neu Mejican.

[Shitty Friend]

Neu Mejican, finish him! Babality!!

[SqueakyRat]

Small government, property rights? What, religious freedom and human decency aren't good enough?

[Zero]

Maybe this story has legs because people have actual feelings about this issue that aren't either Team Red or Team Blue related? If it was just a Team Red issue it would be forgotten about in a week (like their other wedge issues they dig up every week).

But it's okay, we actually don't have to have a conversation about it or pretend their feelings are valid. We can blame Fox News, call everyone who disagrees with us a racist, and contiue on feeling superior.

[Neu Mejican]

You may be right, but the media was covering this with unusual intensity prior to Americans taking notice in any numbers. The first polls on this put public interest in the issue at about 20%. It wasn't until the media dog-fight broke out that people started even paying attention. To me this looks like it has all the hallmarks of a manufactured controversy. People have real feelings about manufactured controversies, but I don't think the passions we are seeing on display in the media match the passions of people. Every time I have had a face-to-face conversation about this with anyone it has been about how they don't get why the media is making such a big deal. And while people come down on one side or the other on whether it is a good idea to build the mosque there, very few are passionate about the issue.

[Adonisus]

You know what? I'm just going to come out and say it.

Zero, your feelings on this issue don't mean shit. You don't own the property. They do. You can whine and bitch all you want, but it isn't your decision.

Now sack up and get on with your life.

[TrickyVic]

I think Zero was making an explanation, not speaking for him/her self per se. And Zero is correct in that it is about feelings. Maybe not exact to the intended point but feelings drive votes too.

[Jim Treacher]

Considering the purported purpose of this mosque is to build bridges, heal wounds, etc., it could be argued that people's feelings about it might factor into that equation.

But telling people to "sack up" is more emotionally satisfying, I suppose.

[TrickyVic]

""But telling people to "sack up" is more emotionally satisfying, I suppose.""

Is "sack up" like "buck up"? Because buck up is a card more often used by conservatives. That touchy, feely, emotional crap is for liberals.

[Jim Treacher]

You'll have to ask Adonisus about his or her word choice.

[TrickyVic]

Ahhh. In that context, it looks like a yes.

[gocart mozart]

'Cowboy up'is a Red Sox thing, being emotional about bullshit is a conservative thing and it is priceless.

[Jim Treacher]

"BUSH LIED, PEOPLE DIED"

[-]

I think "sack up" is equivalent to "cowboy up."

[TrickyVic]

I'm thinking so. Samething as buck up.

[Neu Mejican]

No. Buck up and sack up are not quite equivalent. Sack up would be closer to "man up."

"Buck up" is more positive (like..."be brave it will turn out okay"), where as "man up" or "sack up" is more of a derogatory term equivalent to "don't be a sissy/girl."

[Tulpa]

Considering the purported purpose of this mosque is to build bridges, heal wounds, etc., it could be argued that people's feelings about it might factor into that equation.

That's a stretch. It's up to the mosque builders to determine whether their goals are satisfied by the project.

In other words, if you think feelings wouldn't matter if the mosque was being built to relieve overcrowding, then they shouldn't matter in this case either.

And even then, there are situations where you have to step on people's toes and hurt feelings in order to build bridges and heal old grudges. The road to racial reconciliation in this country is paved with hurt feelings and bruised sensitivities.

[Jim Treacher]

It's up to the mosque builders to determine whether their goals are satisfied by the project.

"We're creating a dialogue, and the thoughts, feelings and opinions of those with whom we claim to be creating that dialogue are irrelevant."

In other words, if you think feelings wouldn't matter if the mosque was being built to relieve overcrowding, then they shouldn't matter in this case either.

What a marvelous assertion. Good luck with that.

[gocart mozart]

If you were a better writer Jim, I could find your point.

[Jim Treacher]

You couldn't find a point in a pin factory.

[SqueakyRat]

Nice that a generous statement by the Park51 backers is getting thrown back in their faces by racists like Treacher. "Feelings"? -- give me a break. Whose feelings get to override the First Amendment, Jimbo?

[Neu Mejican]

But it's okay, we actually don't have to have a conversation about it or pretend their feelings are valid. We can blame Fox News, call everyone who disagrees with us a racist, and contiue on feeling superior.

That seems as unfair a characterization of one side as a claim that opposition is all about racism would be of the other.

Importantly, of course, there are those on both sides for which either of these unflattering images would be accurate. The people with real feelings about this are having real conversations. Those that are shouting at each other have probably lost sight of the issue and are in an us-versus-them frenzy.

[SqueakyRat]

Why am I supposed to give a shit about the "feelings" of people who want to deny other people their constitutional rights? When did the "9-11 families" become a privileged class in this country? Most of my family is dead. So what?

[rho]

This story has legs because people like to argue over nothing. See: sports, TV shows, comic books.

On the other hand, talking about property rights is about as interesting as the Accountancy Olympics.

I think they should build a mosque where Pfizer was going to built that office in New London.

[Jim Treacher]

The attack on the World Trade Center is "nothing." Good to know.

9/11 = 0

[terre sacre]

O holy hole in the ground! Our fears keep us wailing,
On 9/11, the day eternally seized.
Long may that hole stay a burden to us all,
How we cynically opine our neighbors worth.
in his lack of fidelity we rejoice,
when he asks what is left to be mourned?

Fall on your knees! O, hear our patriot voices!
O 9/11, the day our cause was born!
Fall on your knees! O, hear our patriot voices!
O 9/11, the day our cause was born!

Onward by the dark course of twisted Faith and box cutters in hand,
With glowing hearts By Satan's will they rode.
Until by impact of planes a careening,
Here come the Mussel men From Orient land.
With the War of All Wars we redeem our anger;
In our trials we know enemy from friend.

We feed the need, and Our weakness is no stranger,
Behold your King! Before Him lowly bend!
Behold your King, Before Him lowly bend!

Truly Aries taught us To hate one another;
His law is Holy slaughter And His gospel is to never appease.
Chains shall He bend you For the slave is in you and not the other;
And in His name all questions shall cease.
War cries deployed In grating chorus raise we,
Let all within us Praise His holy name.

Aries is our Lord! O praise His Name forever,
His power and glory Evermore proclaim.
His power and glory Evermore proclaim.

[Jim Treacher]

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
If you're got a point,
Try to prove that you do.

[Psychic Octopus]

It happened already, and even if all the culprits ever were caught (fat chance!) the mosque or the no-mosque isn't going to be what catches them.

[slayer of burritos]

The mosque attacked the World Trade Center? Well, the liberal media never told me that. Thanks for opening my eyes, friend!

[Jim Treacher]

You're welcome, obtuse jerk.

[gocart mozart]

No Jimmy, the mosque bullshit is bullshit, not 9/11. Get a clue asshole.

[Jim Treacher]

Why didn't somebody tell me Oscar Wilde had risen from the grave?

[Gus]

Yes, "you're welcome, obtuse jerk" is very Wildean.

[T]

Trying to keep the BBQ recipe theme going, what's good Arab BBQ? Besides camel, I mean. They're a little scarce in the supermarket. I could Google, of course, but if we're going to rack these threads up to 300+ comments, I feel I should do my part.

[prolefeed]

what's good Arab BBQ?

I think eating people, even Arabs, is technically illegal, unless you're talking about the alternate meaning of "eating".

[Neu Mejican]

I think eating people, even Arabs, is technically illegal

Most of those sodomy laws are gone...but some states do still consider oral genital illegal, yes.

[T]

What? I thought foreign brown people were subhuman and we could hunt them with no season rules or bag limits. Has the media lied to me yet again?

[Psychic Octopus]

But Moosleems can only eat their spouses.

[alan]

Have I been missing good BBQ recipes by skimming the mosque threads? Sonovabitch!

[prolefeed]

Both Pauls suck on some issues. Both are better than the overwhelming majority of Congress-swine in both parties.

[Bill O'Reilly]

It's a firestorm! A firestorm!

[Corduroy]

and yet again, what Ron P has said will be completely ignored by the media. Where is Napolitano on this one?

[Ring]

Dems : Those who oppose Obama are Racist and Hate filled!

Libertarians : Errr...What?

Dems : Those who oppose the mosque are Racist and Hate filled!

Libertarians : Yeah, racist fuckers.

[mosque opponent]

True. Just look at the way the mosque is running this country into the ground. That said, it doesn't help us when some loons our side go around suggesting that the mosque is secretly Islamic.

[Lamar]

Everybody has that point on the slippery slope where they say that something went from a difference in degree to a difference in kind.

[mol]

"Dems : Those who oppose Obama are Racist and Hate filled!"

Fantasy...

Whatever you heard that sounded like that was actually a reference to the same logic behind this statement you apparently agree with:
"Those who oppose the mosque are Racist and Hate filled!" -- i.e. using racial fear to generate opposition to Obama's policies that may also have legitimate opposition as well (GOP leaders do not care about a mosque). If you can see it here, consider the possibility it may exist elsewhere (and, when you find it, no, it not does not mean libertarians are racist; so you can relax about the defensiveness).

[Ring]

>Fantasy...

Come again? I think you may have missed my point, or actually made it for me, I'm not sure.

The point was that plenty here oppose Obama and are branded racist because they disagree. People disagree with a mosque being built and again, it is down to race and hate. However, since the libertarians don't agree with the opposition, they are fine jumping in on the accusations of racism, despite having suffered the same sloppy smearing over Obama.

Regardless, if the opposition was simply about Islam or a mosque, dontcha think there might have been more opposition to the other 1200 mosques in the country which have not been criticized.

Dems (and now it seem libertarians) love to decorate their arguments with assumptions about what is on the mind of those they disagree with. This whole issue of dog whistle politics needs a Godwins law of its own.

Lastly, since Reason couldn't wait to trot out posts showing how moderate the Imam is, how about a post or two about the recently found videos with him basically saying the US deserved 9/11?

[Lamar]

"how about a post or two about the recently found videos with him basically saying the US deserved 9/11?"

I saw that, and Rudy G. really chewed him out for it.

[Lamar]

Sorry, I should have read the post. I thought he was talking about the Republican debate a few years ago.

[atheist]

No, those who oppose the mosque are actually racist and hate filled. Stop with the conservative political correctness.

[atheist]

Its good to be reminded that Ron Paul really does have some brains and morality, quite apart from his fantasy-world economics.

And also to be reminded that his son whores after any poisonous right-wing idiocy that happens his way.