More bad news, not just for free expression, but for the momentary contemplation of future free expression:
Molly Norris, the American cartoonist who started "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day," has been placed on the hit list of radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki.
Al-Awlaki singled out Norris as "a prime target of assassination" for suggesting earlier this year that Americans draw the prophet to protest the censorship of a "South Park" episode that depicted Muhammad in a bear costume. Islam forbids graphical depictions of Muhammad.
Norris has since backed off from her protest. […]
"The vitriol this 'day' has brought out of people who only want to draw obscene images is offensive to Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place," Norris wrote on her website. "I apologize to people of Muslim faith and ask that this 'day' be called off."
But that apology seems to have fallen on deaf ears. The hit list, published in Inspire, an al-Qaida-sponsored online magazine geared toward recruiting young American Muslims to violent jihad, is not likely to be an idle threat.
Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard has been repeatedly targeted by terrorists for drawing Muhammad. In February, he and his granddaughter hid in a panic room in his home as a man, inspired by jihad, tried to kill him with an ax. […]
"We understand the absolute seriousness of a threat from an al-Qaida-inspired magazine and are attempting to do everything in our power to assist the individuals on that list to effectively protect themselves and change their behavior to make themselves less of a target," FBI counterterrorism agent David Gomez told the Daily News.
Link via the Twitter feed of Amy Alkon. Reason's Draw Mohammed efforts here.
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We understand the absolute seriousness of a threat from an al-Qaida-inspired magazine and are attempting to do everything in our power to assist the individuals on that list to effectively protect themselves and change their behavior to make themselves less of a target," FBI counterterrorism agent David Gomez told the Daily News.
Yes - maybe one aspect of her "behavior" she should change is to stop being female. The radical Islamists seem to have a bit of an issue with women in general.
"We understand the absolute seriousness of a threat from an al-Qaida-inspired magazine and are attempting to do everything in our power to assist the individuals on that list..."
When will people cower from a Reason-inspiried magazine?
Really, I think we should all have a Draw Muhammad Day, every day, using every single piece of media we can. And if by some luck we can find these Islamists' e-mail addresses, I say we all set up free e-mail accounts from servers in Russia, and go to town.
There must be some element of International Law that deals with making death threats to citizens of another country.
Somebody please capture al-Awlaki, and make a video of him being urinated on by people in South Park costumes.
I don't know how to do italics so I'll just put this in quotes...
""We understand the absolute seriousness of a threat from an al-Qaida-inspired magazine and are attempting to do everything in our power to assist the individuals on that list to effectively protect themselves and change their behavior to make themselves less of a target," FBI counterterrorism agent David Gomez told the Daily News."
Why in the hell should she change her behavior to make herself less of a target? Shouldn't the FBI focus on rooting out and prosecuting anyone who acts violently in response to this hitlist, rather than trying to make someone change their behavior in order to not be targeted?
Am I missing something here? The FBI has no place telling someone how to behave as long as they are within the law. The problem here isn't the cartoonist's behavior, its the attitude of the followers of radical islam that they can attack and kill anyone they disagree with.
Thanks for giving the ability of italics away willynilly, like some goddam font tag Prometheus. You don't even know if Leroy is capable of handling that power, or if it will lead him straight to his destruction!
You're assuming what the FBI is suggesting is "stop offending Muslims". However, an equally valid interpretation is that they might be suggesting is "vary the time you leave to work, so you're harder to kill", and other things like that.
When a soldier is being taught to make himself less of a target, he's not being taught to stop doing things the enemy will object to, just to take steps that make him harder to hit.
And you're right, I did make that assumption. After MP's post I thought through it a little bit more. Ha, that's what I get for posting without taking enough time to think first.
I missed the axe attack. Man, our species is full of some crazy, isn't it? I've never understood why some people want to use such brutal means to force compliance with God's law. Even assuming we could know what that is, exactly, if God wanted to use brute force to ensure perfect adherence to some code, couldn't God just do it directly, without the crazed intermediaries? In other words, if God hasn't seen fit to use force to make people behave within a specific framework, what business is it of humans to do so?
Free will. God let's you exercise it, but axe-jihadi doesn't care. You are deliberately disobeying the self-evident rules of a deity that unambiguously exists.
I've always told the religious people I've come in contact with. If you believe that God is all powerful then why would He need your help to accomplish His will?
I think the explanation is that he doesn't need human help, he just wants us to freely choose to help him. Just like he could turn everyone into perfect, sinless automatons, but chooses not to because he prefers the good to be chosen freely.
That's the best I can remember from my catechism classes, at least. Though they didn't have the difficulty of explaining why his will included killing individuals on a list.
Or why God's will is that we should have the talent and desire to create art, and draw/make representations of everything we see and experience in our world, including the rest of God's creation -- but that using this drive to depict humans (especially a human prophet) is absolutely forbidden and merits a death sentence.
I've never understood why some people want to use such brutal means to force compliance with God's law. Even assuming we could know what that is, exactly,
Certain Muslims want to use such brutal means because Allah told them to do so. And they know exactly what that is because it is in the Quran, straight from the mouth of God, unaltered, via the Prophet Muhammed, BAPBUH.
That's what is going on in their heads.
And if you think our religious fundies have some crazy going on, this should put it in perspective.
No, they like to pick on single people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Theo van Gogh. It's easy to feel powerful, like your doing Allah's work, when you only have to murder one lady.
Where are those drone assassins when you need them?
When I saw that al Queda in Somalia took credit for the Uganda World Cup Finals watching bombs that killed 70+ people I thought, this shit would end pretty quickly if we dropped a strategic nuke on Mogadishu.
Yes, Just like the Japanese in Tokyo were able to fight on for years after we blew the shit out of two of there other cities. Damn. If only we had nuked Tokyo, WWII would have ended much sooner.
If only I didn't so badly need Stalin to notice me, I could have got a deal with the Emperor to end the war with Japan and roast Mao instead back in May instead of waiting until August.
There's something to this, but it's mostly a cultural thing than a religion thing. Arabs and other civilizations in that region put an extremely high premium on saving and keeping face. The poor schlub who willfully concedes face is more contemptible than just about anything, even someone who honestly insults their superstitions.
This all predates Islam, but Islam as practiced by most of the sects in the region sure as hell didn't discourage it.
There's something to this, but it's mostly a cultural thing than a religion thing. Arabs and other civilizations in that region put an extremely high premium on saving and keeping face.
This was true of European culture too until a couple of centuries ago. You have heard of duels and trial by combat, have you not? I seem to recall a relevant story about Lancelot and King Arthur's wife, but I don't think it was set in the Middle East.
I wish a a crazy Islamist would come to my house and try to kill me with an axe. Serious. I haven't fired a weapon in anger in almost seven years. And I have some family members out West who would also welcome such a visit.
Not really. But I did get shot at and fire back. So I have fired a weapon in anger. Was mortored a few times to. Nothing to write a book about. But not bad for a rear echelon loser.
It's incredibly easy to get your permit here (which is the way it should be). It's not just that they'll grant you it, the very process of applying is super simple and fast. You're in and out in 10 minutes, and get it in 30 days. And it's not even cops who work there, just city employees.
Seattle is somewhat different. Portland is nice, but sleepy as hell, and while I've never been to Vancouver WA, all the cities I've been to in WA (Tacoma, Olympia, etc.) have been minuscule compared to Seattle.
Nah, Seattle is pretty authoritarian. And if the voters in Seattle itself were given free reign at the ballot box, it would be like Chicago regarding gun control laws.
It's all those rural areas elsewhere that hold down the gun control nonsense in WA.
Are there any training requirements? I've been putting off getting my Ohio permit because it's a pain in the ass.
When I lived in PA, all I had to do was go down to the courthouse, pay $17, fill out a NICS background check form, and walk out with a permit to carry a pistol.
No training. Go to the permit office, where they fingerprint you using a fingerprint scanner (so no ink), you fill out the one page form, pay your $50 or whatever it is, and they call you within 30 days to come pick it up (they have to grant it within the 30 days if you are legal).
I'm in the process of renewing my Texas permit and it's a royal pain in the ass, and expensive to boot.
The permit fee is $140 ($70 for renewals. You have to take a class ($50-100; 4 hours for renewals, 10 hours for initial permits) which includes a written test and a shooting test.
You then send your application, fingerprints, and pictures to Austin where they process it and do the background check, including sending your fingerprints to the FBI. If nothing pops, they send your permit to you in two months or so.
PA (Allegheny County at least) has a process similar to WA now. I think I paid $25, filled out the paperwork, got my picture taken, and picked up the permit in person 3 weeks or so later.
Quick question for you lawyer-ish types: Why, if I am licensed to carry by PA, can I not carry in other states and DC without it stated specifically in the laws of these jurisdictions? Has there ever been a federal legal challenge to this?
It would be interesting to try to argue that FF&C requires that states accept other states' CCW permits, but I'm pretty certain it would fail in court since guns are seen as more a threat to public safety than vehicles.
What PA lacks in firearm restrictions they make up for with their vehicle safety and emissions inspections requirements. It cost me $1000 to pass inspection here when I had passed in NYS just six months earlier.
There are a lot of software engineers/IT people here, who tend to be more libertarian and not afraid of guns. If you are working the night shift at a data center, you might want to have a piece on you.
Yeah, makes sense. I'm in central Virginia, where it's quite possible the nice old granny in front of you at the WalMart has a .38 in her purse. I'm one of about 200,000 Virginians with a concealed carry permit. Open carry is legal without a permit, as long as you're not disqualified from possessing a handgun.
I think that if you have received a credible death threat from a fatwa issuer, you can fucking ignore any gun control laws and go out in public carrying loaded assault rifles, and just fucking DARE them to give you a case to fight all the way up to SCOTUS.
If this situation doesn't allow your Second Amendment rights to trump any restrictions government has come up with, then the Second doesn't protect anything.
If Anwar al-Awlaki sufficient faith in Allah he wouldn't be getting his tits in a flutter over whether people were drawing Muhammad/Mohammed* or blaspheming Allah.
Surely the omniscient, vengeful and omnipotent Allah will properly punish the transgressors far worse than what mere humans can contrive. To not leave the judgement of people's faith up to the supreme diety suggests serious doubt about said deity's onmiscience and omnipotence.
This leads, by Anwar al-Awlaki's own logic, to the conclusion than he himself should be assassinated for doubting Allah.
* Decide on the correct spelling for the prophet already!
I think Draw Mohammed Day is misguided for a different reason than the fact that it is offensive to Muslims. The net effect is reduced liberty. While our current liberty to draw offensive images of Mohammed is not currently in danger from government, the freedom of citizens to access the internet and other means of communication in the authoritarian Islamic countries was limited or revoked, as this was a convenient excuse for these governments to do so. Unfortunately this cuts off the best avenue for us to try to change their mindsets.
I never said anything about curtailing liberty - were our rights to draw Mohammed up for debate in the US, I'd be on the front line advocating for a Draw Mohammed Day. In the absence of such a threat, it's largely counterproductive for libertarians who believe in maximizing liberty to agitate authoritarian regimes and give them easy incentive to crackdown on liberty in their own countries. Because the majority of their society is offended (as is the very intention of the act), they are more than willing to go along with their government, and thus the only avenue for dialogue is closed down. As the government of Pakistan blocks sites like Facebook, it will be more difficult to reach Pakistanis with a message or religious tolerance and liberty.
So it's not about curtailing liberty, it's about pragmatism. I care about the human rights and liberties of individuals in Pakistan as much as I do here, even if most of them would freely discard it in the name of perverted morality. Those few that wouldn't could be the seeds to a freer future, and internet crackdowns are not conducive to fostering the future. I'm not blaming libertarians for the actions of the authoritarian governments, but actions have consequences and the net negative consequences for liberty in this case were not worth it, especially as no particular domestic or international liberties were gained by the action. Just because I'm free to join the KKK and NAMBLA doesn't mean it's a good idea to exercise this particular liberty. Likewise in this case.
She doesn't want to be associated with her "Everybody draw Mohammed day? I get that... but if she doesn't want any part of it, I'll do it.
Fuck them and anyone else who'd dare to put out a hit-list on someone for suggesting that people draw a cartoon. So when next year comes around, if no one else is backing it, I'll do it. If someone wants to threaten or kill me... good luck.
Paul Francisco James O'Brien
Los Angeles, California
the whole thing is bullshit..if you do end up dead I bet it will be governemnt paid "informants" who happened to go rogue and kill people in favor of free speech...that way the government can justify censoring free speech.
That reminds me of whoever it was here that posted a week or so back the eventially the government will have to make gay butt sex illegal again because it is a health risk like salty foods and sugary drinks.
I never said they would, I said they could, using the same exact logic. I was talking to Tony, and liberals only care if it effects them directly (presuming he's real and not a sockpuppet).
This is exactly the right direction to take. Stand, unafraid, united with those who believe in free speech and show the enemies of speech and freedom of conscience that we will not back down.
tried to find Inspire online and all I found was a bunch of coordinated articles in the MSM ...all the articles were lists of talking points about how homegrown terorism is the big new threat and quotes from intelligence agencies about how dangerous this was...they say the magazine is published by al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula...Is that what they call themselves? or is that what he CIA calls them or is that the same thing...this is a bunch of bullshit...Put me on the hit list too, I drew a cartoon of Mohammed sucking off David Rockefeller. Our own government is more likely to kill us than anyone.
I love how Osama Bin Laden is supposedly warning us about climate change and global warming. If you believe this crap I feel sorry for you.
Oil Exec's Wife Hospitalized After 'Box of Chocolates' Explodes
(NewsCore) - A Houston woman believed to be the wife of an oil executive was hospitalized after a package she received that looked like a box of chocolates exploded when she opened it, FOXNews.com reported Monday.
Investigators said the box arrived at the victim's house several weeks ago, but did not explode until she opened it Friday night, KTRK-TV reported.
Friends of the women said her face was instantly pelted with nails and tacks, and shrapnel blew so high it landed on the roof of her home, the station reported.
If the house in Houston is not a shit hole then the chances are it is owned by an "oil executive". Do you know how many people in Houston could be described as oil executives?
This article is so general that it is useless in trying to prove the existence and the legitimacy and (CIA)Independence of Al Qaeda in America.
Why would Al Qaeda want to kill the wives of American oil executives versus say US refineries or gas pipelines or random military personell in Chrystal City?
The new English language magazine "Inspire" is a "fail" so far for al Qaeda. The NY Post reports that the online magazine does not load properly. Only 3 of its 67 pages are visible on the site and they contain "garbled computer code," reports the Daily Mail.
Al Qaeda Trying to Recruit Terrorist Online in America
But more importantly, why is an online magazine by al Qaeda created to recruit people into terrorism allowed to exist on the web? Why does America's government allow its foes to use the Internet to recruit people into al Qaeda's war against America?
see that? our government makes a ridiculous table of contents for a ridiculous publication designed to enrage isolationist americans...after they are enraged the government sends out the talking points to build up support for having the government go around censoring the web...paultards are defined as being enemies of the state(which they obviously are) abba cadabra...shut down all anti-war websites
I would point out that this is the guy Obama put the hit out on. As uncomfortable as I am with the government whacking US citizens, I will still gladly piss on this guy's grave when he finally meets a TOW missile with his name on it.
Yes, any cleric can. Now the issue is whether anyone will listen to you. In fairness to Muslims, any clown can all himself a cleric. But it takes real juice and respect to get anyone to listen to you. And few Muslims listen to this clown.
They are going to be attacking us soon....it had to be true, a guy from the CIA came on TV and said I should be scared. Oh man I hope we nuke IRan before it is too late
Nearly 2 years on and no 1500 strong white al-queada in the u.k. that are active if there even is one ,more like the c.i.a. was engaging in propaganda. We can debate why, but this happens, incorporate it in your world view or be left clueless-in-the-dark-obama-and-GW-Bush-voting-sheeple.
One solution would be for a chip manufacturer to burn a microscopic image of Mohammed onto all their chips. Manufacture it for a year or two and then leak the info to a tech mag. Responsibility for it would be completely diluted and the crazies would...what? Burn every device with that chip? Stop using technology?
The Facebook group for Everybody Draw Mohammed Day had 90,000 members before Facebook closed it. The jihadist single out a couple of people to make an example of, but they no better than to try to pick a personal fight with 90,000 people. If we stand together on this, we will all be much safer.
Fuck Islam. I subscribe to Wartyism. In Wartyism, when you die, you get to snort coke off the ass of 72 of your favorite porno stars. Now there are a lot of porno stars out from amatuers to pros. So Arch-Angel Sugar "my pancreas sucks ass" Free sits you in front of a monitor with a big huge pile of HD blu rays and about three weeks just to pick them out.
We should have a Facebook Anwar al-Awlaki parody asking members to sign up and have a fatwa or fart wart issued against them. They can't go after the whole world. Oh wait; maybe they can. They do claim to go after all infidels.
We understand the absolute seriousness of a threat from an al-Qaida-inspired magazine and are attempting to do everything in our power to assist the individuals on that list to effectively protect themselves and change their behavior to make themselves less of a target," FBI counterterrorism agent David Gomez told the Daily News.
Yes - maybe one aspect of her "behavior" she should change is to stop being female. The radical Islamists seem to have a bit of an issue with women in general.
"The radical Islamists seem to have a bit of an issue with women in general."
Well of course they do; they're fucking gay. Why else would they live like they do? A bunch of guys all in a camp together. No women. You do the math.
It's like all the gays in the Catholic priesthood. NTTAWWT
It's not gay if you're underway.
Hey now!
I am still waiting for my fatwa! Come on Anwar al-Bitch, afraid of a girl who will fight back?
Mohammed sucks.
Suk-eh. You ah in grave dan-juh.
^This^
I feel bad for her because she totally wants nothing to do with being a matyr for free expression.
But she's going to be one anyway.
Did anyone really think this wouldn't happen?
The gag begged for this kind of retaliation.
This is why anonymity is interwoven with free speech.
"We understand the absolute seriousness of a threat from an al-Qaida-inspired magazine and are attempting to do everything in our power to assist the individuals on that list..."
When will people cower from a Reason-inspiried magazine?
Really, I think we should all have a Draw Muhammad Day, every day, using every single piece of media we can. And if by some luck we can find these Islamists' e-mail addresses, I say we all set up free e-mail accounts from servers in Russia, and go to town.
There must be some element of International Law that deals with making death threats to citizens of another country.
Somebody please capture al-Awlaki, and make a video of him being urinated on by people in South Park costumes.
I'd much rather see people throw pig parts and alcohol at him while holding pictures of his undrawable prophet.
I like the idea of a Muhammad chew toy for dogs.
I don't know about international law, but couldn't we send in special forces to rough them up a bit?
I'd rather see him being locked in a room, and fed nothing but pork and alcohol until he either starves to death or eats it.
Al-Awlaki has offended me and my family. I am hereby issuing a Fat Wa for his elimination from this universe.
I don't know how to do italics so I'll just put this in quotes...
""We understand the absolute seriousness of a threat from an al-Qaida-inspired magazine and are attempting to do everything in our power to assist the individuals on that list to effectively protect themselves and change their behavior to make themselves less of a target," FBI counterterrorism agent David Gomez told the Daily News."
Why in the hell should she change her behavior to make herself less of a target? Shouldn't the FBI focus on rooting out and prosecuting anyone who acts violently in response to this hitlist, rather than trying to make someone change their behavior in order to not be targeted?
Am I missing something here? The FBI has no place telling someone how to behave as long as they are within the law. The problem here isn't the cartoonist's behavior, its the attitude of the followers of radical islam that they can attack and kill anyone they disagree with.
Because there are people threatening to kill her.
Or do you expect the pre-cogs at the FBI to save her life?
The answer to your questions are yes, yes, and yes.
I think these are more in the way of suggestions; i.e. you can ignore their advice, at your own peril of course.
I don't know how to do italics so I'll just put this in quotes...
Click here to go to a list of basic HTML tags. Second table covers basic text tags.
"shift-comma" "e" "m" "shift-period" text you want italicized "shift-comma" "slash" "e" "m" "shift-period"
Thanks for giving the ability of italics away willynilly, like some goddam font tag Prometheus. You don't even know if Leroy is capable of handling that power, or if it will lead him straight to his destruction!
+1
heh... the world is now mine!
Yeah, but you still don't the fire stick yet, so...
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
That's easy. I'm more impressed with the pyramids in your handle. Decimal Unicode test:
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
You're assuming what the FBI is suggesting is "stop offending Muslims". However, an equally valid interpretation is that they might be suggesting is "vary the time you leave to work, so you're harder to kill", and other things like that.
When a soldier is being taught to make himself less of a target, he's not being taught to stop doing things the enemy will object to, just to take steps that make him harder to hit.
Thanks DRM...
And you're right, I did make that assumption. After MP's post I thought through it a little bit more. Ha, that's what I get for posting without taking enough time to think first.
Oh and thanks for the link to HTML tags Tonio!
Thinking before posting is overrated.
I think you trust the government to protect you too much.
She should heavily arm herself at all times, and dare any liberal bastards to try to arrest her for running afoul of gun control laws.
I missed the axe attack. Man, our species is full of some crazy, isn't it? I've never understood why some people want to use such brutal means to force compliance with God's law. Even assuming we could know what that is, exactly, if God wanted to use brute force to ensure perfect adherence to some code, couldn't God just do it directly, without the crazed intermediaries? In other words, if God hasn't seen fit to use force to make people behave within a specific framework, what business is it of humans to do so?
Free will. God let's you exercise it, but axe-jihadi doesn't care. You are deliberately disobeying the self-evident rules of a deity that unambiguously exists.
Infidel!
My stomach is declaring a fatwa on you!
The science is settled!
Um, this IS a global-warming thread, right?
I've always told the religious people I've come in contact with. If you believe that God is all powerful then why would He need your help to accomplish His will?
Or your cash?
What does God need with a starship?
Jim! You don't ask the Almighty for his ID!
The masterpiece of the whole series. They should have stopped right there.
I think the explanation is that he doesn't need human help, he just wants us to freely choose to help him. Just like he could turn everyone into perfect, sinless automatons, but chooses not to because he prefers the good to be chosen freely.
That's the best I can remember from my catechism classes, at least. Though they didn't have the difficulty of explaining why his will included killing individuals on a list.
How did you feel about having to take catechism classes Tulpa?
Did you dislike your teacher?
Or why God's will is that we should have the talent and desire to create art, and draw/make representations of everything we see and experience in our world, including the rest of God's creation -- but that using this drive to depict humans (especially a human prophet) is absolutely forbidden and merits a death sentence.
I've never understood why some people want to use such brutal means to force compliance with God's law. Even assuming we could know what that is, exactly,
Certain Muslims want to use such brutal means because Allah told them to do so. And they know exactly what that is because it is in the Quran, straight from the mouth of God, unaltered, via the Prophet Muhammed, BAPBUH.
That's what is going on in their heads.
And if you think our religious fundies have some crazy going on, this should put it in perspective.
So why is Anwar al-Awlaki still alive?
CB
Partly because Maobama announced to the world that he was being targeted by drones.
Muhammed sucks.
I wonder if they'll put Reason on their list?
No, they like to pick on single people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Theo van Gogh. It's easy to feel powerful, like your doing Allah's work, when you only have to murder one lady.
Where are those drone assassins when you need them?
This should be a lesson. Cowardice gets you nothing from these people.
+10. That is exactly right. You better either go along with everything they say or kill them. There is no middle way.
+1
Point taken.
Yes. Please mention that to Obama sometime.
I would imagine that cowardice eggs them on, since you've shown them that their bullying is working.
When I saw that al Queda in Somalia took credit for the Uganda World Cup Finals watching bombs that killed 70+ people I thought, this shit would end pretty quickly if we dropped a strategic nuke on Mogadishu.
but then the al Qaeda in Uganda would still be able to kill soccer fans right?
Yes, Just like the Japanese in Tokyo were able to fight on for years after we blew the shit out of two of there other cities. Damn. If only we had nuked Tokyo, WWII would have ended much sooner.
so you are saying you really want us to drop a nuclear bomb somewhere and that will get us a victory in the war on terror?
If only I didn't so badly need Stalin to notice me, I could have got a deal with the Emperor to end the war with Japan and roast Mao instead back in May instead of waiting until August.
There's something to this, but it's mostly a cultural thing than a religion thing. Arabs and other civilizations in that region put an extremely high premium on saving and keeping face. The poor schlub who willfully concedes face is more contemptible than just about anything, even someone who honestly insults their superstitions.
This all predates Islam, but Islam as practiced by most of the sects in the region sure as hell didn't discourage it.
"Arabs and other civilizations in that region put an extremely high premium on saving and keeping face."
One could say the same of the Chinese and Japanese, but for some reason they kill themselves rather that the person who took their face.
I guess the Western Asians view it as stealing while the Eastern Asians view it as grave personal failing.
There's something to this, but it's mostly a cultural thing than a religion thing. Arabs and other civilizations in that region put an extremely high premium on saving and keeping face.
This was true of European culture too until a couple of centuries ago. You have heard of duels and trial by combat, have you not? I seem to recall a relevant story about Lancelot and King Arthur's wife, but I don't think it was set in the Middle East.
So you don't think it's right for someone to defend their honor, Tulpa?
Nice Alt text, Matt. Ballsy. Stupid, but ballsy.
Islam is the religion of peace.
Islam is the religion of pus.
According to the Holy Qur'an, unbelievers drink pus in Hell.
Who gives a shit?
And one of the delights of heaven is a fountain of camphor. Back then it was considered a spice, and not something to keep moths away.
Islam is the religion of peace, peace being defined as submission to Allah, so why are the rest of you still standing?
It was "a", not "the". And any religion can be perverted to serve the ends of those who seek power via violent means.
But some need very little perverting.
I wish a a crazy Islamist would come to my house and try to kill me with an axe. Serious. I haven't fired a weapon in anger in almost seven years. And I have some family members out West who would also welcome such a visit.
You were in the shit, John?
Not really. But I did get shot at and fire back. So I have fired a weapon in anger. Was mortored a few times to. Nothing to write a book about. But not bad for a rear echelon loser.
I haven't fired a weapon in anger in almost seven years.
You'd be wiser not to - cooler heads are better shots.
How often do you have this desire that someone will try to kill you?
What do you feel you are capable of in these situations?
But...it's imperialism!
Ok, I won't draw Mohammed. Instead, how offensive is it to link to this song in a non-ironic way?
Here's a tip Mr. Westergaard: supplement the panic room with a shotgun, and call it "Matamoros".
How will this affect the insurance rates for the cruise?
I hope that this dude starts blaspheming Mohammed.
Damn, that dude is pretty badass.
A more detailed account: http://findarticles.com/p/arti....._82533205/
"Lance is quick, very quick."
Poor guy.
She's in Atlanta? She'll appreciate GA's conceal carry rights.
I think she's in Seattle. Washington has one of the highest rates of people licensed to carry (~5% of the adult population IIRC).
And I'm one of them.
I didn't know that many people would be strapped in Seattle. But it figures Episiarch is.
It's incredibly easy to get your permit here (which is the way it should be). It's not just that they'll grant you it, the very process of applying is super simple and fast. You're in and out in 10 minutes, and get it in 30 days. And it's not even cops who work there, just city employees.
Wow. Seattle sounds like a really cool place to live. The Pac-NW is probably the better part of the West Coast anyway.
FWIW, I recently visited Portland and Vancouver, WA ad the Dalles (loved the area), but I've never been to Seattle.
Seattle is somewhat different. Portland is nice, but sleepy as hell, and while I've never been to Vancouver WA, all the cities I've been to in WA (Tacoma, Olympia, etc.) have been minuscule compared to Seattle.
Nah, Seattle is pretty authoritarian. And if the voters in Seattle itself were given free reign at the ballot box, it would be like Chicago regarding gun control laws.
It's all those rural areas elsewhere that hold down the gun control nonsense in WA.
Are there any training requirements? I've been putting off getting my Ohio permit because it's a pain in the ass.
When I lived in PA, all I had to do was go down to the courthouse, pay $17, fill out a NICS background check form, and walk out with a permit to carry a pistol.
No training. Go to the permit office, where they fingerprint you using a fingerprint scanner (so no ink), you fill out the one page form, pay your $50 or whatever it is, and they call you within 30 days to come pick it up (they have to grant it within the 30 days if you are legal).
I'm in the process of renewing my Texas permit and it's a royal pain in the ass, and expensive to boot.
The permit fee is $140 ($70 for renewals. You have to take a class ($50-100; 4 hours for renewals, 10 hours for initial permits) which includes a written test and a shooting test.
You then send your application, fingerprints, and pictures to Austin where they process it and do the background check, including sending your fingerprints to the FBI. If nothing pops, they send your permit to you in two months or so.
PA (Allegheny County at least) has a process similar to WA now. I think I paid $25, filled out the paperwork, got my picture taken, and picked up the permit in person 3 weeks or so later.
Quick question for you lawyer-ish types: Why, if I am licensed to carry by PA, can I not carry in other states and DC without it stated specifically in the laws of these jurisdictions? Has there ever been a federal legal challenge to this?
Kind of...
It would be interesting to try to argue that FF&C requires that states accept other states' CCW permits, but I'm pretty certain it would fail in court since guns are seen as more a threat to public safety than vehicles.
What PA lacks in firearm restrictions they make up for with their vehicle safety and emissions inspections requirements. It cost me $1000 to pass inspection here when I had passed in NYS just six months earlier.
Seriously? All those progs juked up on overpriced caffeine and packing heat?
There are a lot of software engineers/IT people here, who tend to be more libertarian and not afraid of guns. If you are working the night shift at a data center, you might want to have a piece on you.
Yeah, makes sense. I'm in central Virginia, where it's quite possible the nice old granny in front of you at the WalMart has a .38 in her purse. I'm one of about 200,000 Virginians with a concealed carry permit. Open carry is legal without a permit, as long as you're not disqualified from possessing a handgun.
Yes, because drinking an iced coffee at Starbucks turns you into a homicidal maniac who can't keep his or her gun holstered.
And it ain't the progressives packing heat for the most part, it's the folks who have kept the progs from fucking up 2nd amendment rights.
Thanks for the correction, wasn't sure. Glad to hear she's not in Chicago or DC.
I think that if you have received a credible death threat from a fatwa issuer, you can fucking ignore any gun control laws and go out in public carrying loaded assault rifles, and just fucking DARE them to give you a case to fight all the way up to SCOTUS.
If this situation doesn't allow your Second Amendment rights to trump any restrictions government has come up with, then the Second doesn't protect anything.
If Anwar al-Awlaki sufficient faith in Allah he wouldn't be getting his tits in a flutter over whether people were drawing Muhammad/Mohammed* or blaspheming Allah.
Surely the omniscient, vengeful and omnipotent Allah will properly punish the transgressors far worse than what mere humans can contrive. To not leave the judgement of people's faith up to the supreme diety suggests serious doubt about said deity's onmiscience and omnipotence.
This leads, by Anwar al-Awlaki's own logic, to the conclusion than he himself should be assassinated for doubting Allah.
* Decide on the correct spelling for the prophet already!
Blasphemy!
I think the point is to get the transgressors up there to face Allah's wrath sooner.
Apparently fundie Muslims are impatient.
Decide on the correct spelling for the prophet already!
Muchomado?
I think Draw Mohammed Day is misguided for a different reason than the fact that it is offensive to Muslims. The net effect is reduced liberty. While our current liberty to draw offensive images of Mohammed is not currently in danger from government, the freedom of citizens to access the internet and other means of communication in the authoritarian Islamic countries was limited or revoked, as this was a convenient excuse for these governments to do so. Unfortunately this cuts off the best avenue for us to try to change their mindsets.
Repeat after me: when your solution to advance liberty is to curtail liberty, you need to rethink your strategy.
That is all.
I never said anything about curtailing liberty - were our rights to draw Mohammed up for debate in the US, I'd be on the front line advocating for a Draw Mohammed Day. In the absence of such a threat, it's largely counterproductive for libertarians who believe in maximizing liberty to agitate authoritarian regimes and give them easy incentive to crackdown on liberty in their own countries. Because the majority of their society is offended (as is the very intention of the act), they are more than willing to go along with their government, and thus the only avenue for dialogue is closed down. As the government of Pakistan blocks sites like Facebook, it will be more difficult to reach Pakistanis with a message or religious tolerance and liberty.
So it's not about curtailing liberty, it's about pragmatism. I care about the human rights and liberties of individuals in Pakistan as much as I do here, even if most of them would freely discard it in the name of perverted morality. Those few that wouldn't could be the seeds to a freer future, and internet crackdowns are not conducive to fostering the future. I'm not blaming libertarians for the actions of the authoritarian governments, but actions have consequences and the net negative consequences for liberty in this case were not worth it, especially as no particular domestic or international liberties were gained by the action. Just because I'm free to join the KKK and NAMBLA doesn't mean it's a good idea to exercise this particular liberty. Likewise in this case.
I drew Mohammad. He's looks just like Warty's penis, according to the witness statements. Gnarled, dry, muscular, and bearded.
What are you talking about? Warty lasers. It's like a turtle shell down there.
I am, in fact, a target of Islamists because of my Mohammed-esque penis.
Complete with scales?
Warty lasers off his pubic hair, but that doesn't mean his penis isn't bearded. It's hell to stuff into a condom.
You know an awful lot about Warty's penis.
Research grant. I've interviewed people who have seen it under controlled laboratory conditions. No one who has seen it in the wild has survived.
Thanks for the visual.
I wonder if anyone has ever drawn Muhamad on an Ethch a Sketch?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....g-toy.html
Today is the 50th anniversary of it. Hard to believe people had childhoods before it.
So much good shit has been invented in my lifetime.
Lasers, the Etch a Sketch, the internet, communication satellites, lactating porn all make happy to live in the world of wonder that I do.
Funny, when you click on the site, there's Mo!
+ woof woof!
If only Molly Norris didn't unilaterally invade Iraq to steal their oil. Why didn't Molly Norris let the inspections continue?!
What about Molly's sanctions that killed 74 trillion children?
Molly, this is what happens to you when you don't listen to the U.N.!
I took a shit at the UN once.
I left one.
She doesn't want to be associated with her "Everybody draw Mohammed day? I get that... but if she doesn't want any part of it, I'll do it.
Fuck them and anyone else who'd dare to put out a hit-list on someone for suggesting that people draw a cartoon. So when next year comes around, if no one else is backing it, I'll do it. If someone wants to threaten or kill me... good luck.
Paul Francisco James O'Brien
Los Angeles, California
the whole thing is bullshit..if you do end up dead I bet it will be governemnt paid "informants" who happened to go rogue and kill people in favor of free speech...that way the government can justify censoring free speech.
That reminds me of whoever it was here that posted a week or so back the eventially the government will have to make gay butt sex illegal again because it is a health risk like salty foods and sugary drinks.
I never said they would, I said they could, using the same exact logic. I was talking to Tony, and liberals only care if it effects them directly (presuming he's real and not a sockpuppet).
And it was just buttsex, not gay buttsex.
Oh, and if Tulpa's around:
Mohammed sucks a big bag of dicks.
This.
This is exactly the right direction to take. Stand, unafraid, united with those who believe in free speech and show the enemies of speech and freedom of conscience that we will not back down.
Ralph Strickland
Morganton, NC
Here is a picture of Mohammed (detail of larger picture):
8===D
Come and try to kill me for blasphemy, you fatwa-issuing sons of whores.
Jim Henshaw
Kailua, HI
tried to find Inspire online and all I found was a bunch of coordinated articles in the MSM ...all the articles were lists of talking points about how homegrown terorism is the big new threat and quotes from intelligence agencies about how dangerous this was...they say the magazine is published by al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula...Is that what they call themselves? or is that what he CIA calls them or is that the same thing...this is a bunch of bullshit...Put me on the hit list too, I drew a cartoon of Mohammed sucking off David Rockefeller. Our own government is more likely to kill us than anyone.
I love how Osama Bin Laden is supposedly warning us about climate change and global warming. If you believe this crap I feel sorry for you.
You mean terrorism like this?
Oil Exec's Wife Hospitalized After 'Box of Chocolates' Explodes
(NewsCore) - A Houston woman believed to be the wife of an oil executive was hospitalized after a package she received that looked like a box of chocolates exploded when she opened it, FOXNews.com reported Monday.
Investigators said the box arrived at the victim's house several weeks ago, but did not explode until she opened it Friday night, KTRK-TV reported.
Friends of the women said her face was instantly pelted with nails and tacks, and shrapnel blew so high it landed on the roof of her home, the station reported.
http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp.....mh_8609420
OMG your right! Lets shut down the internet!
If the house in Houston is not a shit hole then the chances are it is owned by an "oil executive". Do you know how many people in Houston could be described as oil executives?
This article is so general that it is useless in trying to prove the existence and the legitimacy and (CIA)Independence of Al Qaeda in America.
Why would Al Qaeda want to kill the wives of American oil executives versus say US refineries or gas pipelines or random military personell in Chrystal City?
here is the typicla propaganda I've seen so far:
The new English language magazine "Inspire" is a "fail" so far for al Qaeda. The NY Post reports that the online magazine does not load properly. Only 3 of its 67 pages are visible on the site and they contain "garbled computer code," reports the Daily Mail.
Al Qaeda Trying to Recruit Terrorist Online in America
But more importantly, why is an online magazine by al Qaeda created to recruit people into terrorism allowed to exist on the web? Why does America's government allow its foes to use the Internet to recruit people into al Qaeda's war against America?
see that? our government makes a ridiculous table of contents for a ridiculous publication designed to enrage isolationist americans...after they are enraged the government sends out the talking points to build up support for having the government go around censoring the web...paultards are defined as being enemies of the state(which they obviously are) abba cadabra...shut down all anti-war websites
A quick google search indicates that Norris is Seattle-based. And remember, she may be an anti-gun progressive.
According to this article, EDM day was originally a joke. Norris comes across as politically naive.
^this in response to Virginia @2:19
yep, my bad.
And remember, she may be an anti-gun progressive.
I think those days are long gone. Ditto if she was a cat person.
Anyway, let's not forget the winner of Reason's EDM Day!
From Balko's blog The Agitator:
Radley's axiom: libertarianism tends to happen to people.
I would hope that she has now just become less na?ve.
I would point out that this is the guy Obama put the hit out on. As uncomfortable as I am with the government whacking US citizens, I will still gladly piss on this guy's grave when he finally meets a TOW missile with his name on it.
I was just considering whether putting a hit on someone who puts out fatwas was simple justice. Obama beat me to it.
Can just any cleric issue a fatwa? Do they take lessons from "The Godfather"?
Yes, any cleric can. Now the issue is whether anyone will listen to you. In fairness to Muslims, any clown can all himself a cleric. But it takes real juice and respect to get anyone to listen to you. And few Muslims listen to this clown.
Take it easy fellas. Do you have any idea how mentally straining it is to worship the Jew's God while hating Jews?
Beware of the great white Al Qaeda. I saw on fox news
White Al Qaeda 1500 strong!!!! OMG!!!
They are going to be attacking us soon....it had to be true, a guy from the CIA came on TV and said I should be scared. Oh man I hope we nuke IRan before it is too late
Nearly 2 years on and no 1500 strong white al-queada in the u.k. that are active if there even is one ,more like the c.i.a. was engaging in propaganda. We can debate why, but this happens, incorporate it in your world view or be left clueless-in-the-dark-obama-and-GW-Bush-voting-sheeple.
More on the Al Qaeda videos
Take a look at this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/4016713.stm
One solution would be for a chip manufacturer to burn a microscopic image of Mohammed onto all their chips. Manufacture it for a year or two and then leak the info to a tech mag. Responsibility for it would be completely diluted and the crazies would...what? Burn every device with that chip? Stop using technology?
Blow up the fab? Though you've given me a good idea of what to do with metal fill.
Stop using technology?
Oooo, you might be onto something. Least we could be rid of their shitty-production-value homefatwideos.
m_(o_o)_m
#
Hi,
I'm a magical being. Kill yourself for me if you want over 9000 virgins.
Pic related. It's me.
Damn...too bad.
http://allyourspeecharebelongtous.tk/
=-o * * * (((:~{> - Starship Enterprise shooting Mohammed with photons.
The Facebook group for Everybody Draw Mohammed Day had 90,000 members before Facebook closed it. The jihadist single out a couple of people to make an example of, but they no better than to try to pick a personal fight with 90,000 people. If we stand together on this, we will all be much safer.
My contribution to the genre: Mohammed Cams on Yahoo
( )*( )
Can we harness this trend for good? Maybe circulate a few pictures of Mohammad swimming in pig shit signed "Richard M. Daley" or "Paul Krugman"?
"Your comment does not appear to be written in an English script. Please comment in English."
What the hell?
Fuck Islam. I subscribe to Wartyism. In Wartyism, when you die, you get to snort coke off the ass of 72 of your favorite porno stars. Now there are a lot of porno stars out from amatuers to pros. So Arch-Angel Sugar "my pancreas sucks ass" Free sits you in front of a monitor with a big huge pile of HD blu rays and about three weeks just to pick them out.
I'm all for free speech, but how did this woman not know that her activity was going to bring all kinds of obscene vitriol?
We should have a Facebook Anwar al-Awlaki parody asking members to sign up and have a fatwa or fart wart issued against them. They can't go after the whole world. Oh wait; maybe they can. They do claim to go after all infidels.