Proving once again that the only way to make it in government is to be as boring as possible, the Obama administration has ruled out the use of a nuclear weapon to plug BP's leaking oil well. Talk about avoiding political fallout! Anyone living along the Gulf Coast who was hoping to reenact that scene in True Lies where Ahnuld smooches Jamie Lee Curtis while a mushroom cloud of love blooms oh-so-cinematically in the background is going to be pretty disappointed. But maybe not that disappointed: Who needs nukes when you've got the advice of the King of the World himself, James Cameron? That's right!
Film director James Cameron said he hopes he can bring together some of the top experts in deep-sea work to help craft a solution to the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.
The director of "Avatar" and "Titanic" said he was moved to action after days of watching the oil well spew uncontrollably and successive attempts to cap it failed.
"I was watching with growing horror thinking, 'Those morons don't know what they're doing,'" said Cameron, speaking at the All Things Digital conference Wednesday evening.
His work on the film "Titanic," he said, gave him exposure to some of the world's top experts who work in deep-sea environments. That started him thinking that those trying to stop the oil flow didn't have the right skill set.
"Wait a minute," he said, "I know a lot of people who work in deep submergence … They know the engineering that's required to work at that depth."
He contacted the Environmental Protection Agency about his plan. "I thought let's get all the people I know together for a brainstorming session," he said.
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To Cameron's credit, he is well connected to the deep sea exploration community. And I bet he's on a short list of people who have spent significant time below 2500 feet.
Besides, we all know that the Government is going to simply continue running around blindfolded. So why give Cameron grief for stepping up to the plate?
Because Cameron actually doesn't know shit. So what that he spent a bunch of time below 2500 feet. Did he design the equipment to get there? Did he operate said equipment? Does he actually have any experience in the gas or oil industry? Let's see: No. No. And No are the answers to those questions.
Shit, its like saying some bean counter should work on a aircraft issue since he spends so much time flying around on 747's at 35,000'.
Those blue aliens from Pandora are at one with nature, right? Send them down there to take care it! If they can defeat a bunch of well-armed mercenaries, this should be a cakewalk.
To Cameron's credit, he is well connected to the deep sea exploration community.
At a guess, I'd say the deep-water construction dudes have the looking-at-fish part of the job handled. So why give Cameron grief for stepping up to the plate?
He doesn't know what the plate is, and he's being an asshole about it.
I was thinking the same thing. Isn't a daisy cutter the strongest non-nuclear bomb we have? Wouldn't that work since we're not trying to radiate any slopes? If not, why not?
The daisy cutter is a fuel-air explosive. No air, no boom. MOAB is a conventional explosive, but it is pretty big - nearly the size of a tractor-trailer. a small nuke would fit down the hole, and has the benefit of intense heat that could fuse the rock into glass at the detonation site.
Of course it could also fracture the rock so that instead of a leak through one hole we have hundreds of leaks through larger cracks... but you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet...
from what I hear, the russians place the nuke right beside the leak and not right on top of it...maybe for that very reason, and maybe to throw a bunch of rock and debris on top of the leak
To Cameron's credit, he is well connected to the deep sea exploration community.
We don't need exploration. We know where the leak is. Cameron has exactly nothing to offer toward a solution of actually stopping the leak.
This, like everything else this administration does, was 100% about PR and managing the news cycle. See, Obama's doing everything! Throwing the kitchen sink at it!
Never mind that's he's actually on vacation, and has found the time to play golf several times since the well blew.
The meme that "Obama is on vacation", and that the Almighty Cult of the President can actually do something, is stupid. Stop playing into TEAM RED's bullshit.
It was just as dumb to act like Bush could "do something" about Katrina.
However true that might be Epi, he still said, and I quote. "I take full responsibility for this. It's my responsibility," and I'm gonna hold the fucker to it. He said it, he owns it. He made his PR nightmare bed and let him lie it.
Unlikely Saccharin Man. I expect the the welfare state to flourish in the wake of these disasters. The knight on the white unicorn(tm), so's to speak. I predict a lot of that unspent stimulus money to go the way of LA.
Are you kidding? After the evul free-market Bush ignored Katrina because he hates black people and his deregulation allowed BP to have a disaster due to their greed?
I know the rationalizations. But having the right people in charge still led to disaster. I guess they could wait for the really, really, really, super-right people to come along.
Sure, do that. But anyone who intimates that he can actually do something about it, rather than just calling him a PR flack for saying he will, is going to piss me off.
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I don't want or expect the federal government to get involved. They've done enough capping already--capping liability, that is. They're obviously not competent to deal with such things. This goes for Katrina, too, of course.
On the other hand, this is the same government that wants to control way too much and to project expertise where none exists. There's a lot of hypocrisy on both "sides" of the political argument over this accident.
The Feds are going to do what the Feds always do: write checks and write legislation and write regulations. And politicians will do what politicians always do: talk and appear for photo ops.
That's all that their time, training, and disposition allows. This is the only way for politicians to let the voters know that they care and are doing something about their problems.
As for the Hollywood gliterati, well, they will grub for publicity wherever the opportunity arises.
I believe there is significant worry about destabilizing the Gulf floor by using explosives. It could create fissures down to the oil source and make solving the problem impossible.
Tony, I don't know what you are taking today, but you are firing on all cylinders today. Good point. I am not a geologist, so any house geologists, is there a such concern regarding destabilization of the area with regard to depth and pressure containing such a blast?
Not a geologist, but from a logical perspective. The russians did it, and it worked 4 out of 5 times; nations did underwater testing of nuclear devices all the time without upsetting any kind of stability; and unless the rig was drilling on a fault line (which is a dumbass move in the first place) you can't get much more stable than a mile underneath the surface of the ocean.
I'm not sure Cameron is claiming that his logged dive time is the relevant factor. Nor is his ability to make pretty pictures at depth.
What is relevant are two factors: 1) his personal relationships with dozens of the most experienced deep water workers in the world. 2) his excellent ability (as evidenced in directing and producing film companies with budgets in the several hundred million dollar range) in bringing together large groups of experts in diverse fields to work towards a single goal.
Cameron is more qualified to run that operation than anyone Obama's got.
What is relevant are two factors: 1) his personal relationships with dozens of the most experienced deep water workers in the world
I suspect they have the "deep water working" part covered. It's the "stopping the leak" part that's causing some headaches. If he knows somebody like that, I'm sure BP would love to get in touch with them.
By that logic, since the Cubs haven't won a championship in 100 years, there's no reason for them not to play parapalegic midgets at every position next year.
Well, Cameron used the RV Keldysh and MIR submersibles on Titanic. That equipment and associated operators are used by Gazprom for their deep pipeline work. Simply calling them explorers underestimates their capabilities.
The idea that a Hollywood director of mostly shit films, who took a couple of rides in a submersible, is more qualified than companies that do deep water drilling for a living is laughable. Wait, no, it's fucking hysterical.
Jebus Christ on a cracker. If the millions of dollars that BP that is losing every day isn't incentive enough to close the leak, never mind the billions of $$$ that they'll be on the hook for when all is said and done, I don't know what is. What I do know is that an attention-whoring movie maker sure as hell isn't going to have the answer.
I specifically said in my first post that Cameron's rides in subs were not relevant. Nor did I mention the quality of his films. What is relevant is his ability to MANAGE A GROUP OF PEOPLE.
The space shuttle Challenger disaster demonstrated the problems that arise when you ask engineers to double as project managers.
Clearly the experts at deep water drilling aren't proving to be experts in deep water capping.
Why not bring in as many big brains as possible? That's what Cameron is offering to try to do.
I daresay that a movie director's talents are largely irrelevant to an engineering problem. Even from the administrative perspective.
I'm sure the people involved right now are among the best in the world in oil and undersea engineering. Some problems are difficult to solve, and a bunch of interdisciplinary participants aren't likely to improve the situation. They could, however, help fuck things up even more.
Why not bring in as many big brains as possible? That's what Cameron is offering to try to do.
"Holy shit! Bring in experts? I guess that's why you're paid the big bucks Mr. Cameron; you think of things no one else can. Would you like some cream in your coffee, sir?"
they might have more experience using deep sea robotics, so you know, there's less chance of saws getting stuck
But I agree that Cameron's ego might be a little too big in thinking that he can blow a conch shell and assemble a better team than the millions of dollars BP's already put into the situation.
Not to sound all libertarian and anti-government about this, but the lack of a solid contingency plan has a lot to do with the lack of legal liability (which is capped seriously below where it should be). Granted, BP was foolish not to be more concerned with the reputational hit it's taking, but that's water under the bridge now.
The government has no business capping liability when the liability can be so high. If something can't be done that has a huge downside risk, then don't do it and don't incentivize people to do it by capping the risk. I don't think that's the case here, but this leak shouldn't have happened and shouldn't be such a surprise--as it seems to be.
Beg all you want, but I stand by my statement. It's one thing when liability is capped in regards to thinks like punitive damages or in developing new industries with relatively low levels of risk, but to do it here? It just removes incentives to spend extra money on precautionary measures.
It's one thing when liability is capped in regards to thinks like punitive damages
I have a vested interest in this and I agree. However, how is capping the liability of a surgeon who risks losing a patient every surgery different from this disaster? My incentive I would argue is much more dire than losing 300 million gals of oil. 11 people died on Transoceans' rig. I find that more tragic than the 300 million gals of oil dumping into the sea.
Yeah, that's different. For instance, there are some liability shields in place when amateurs attempt rescue efforts.
Isn't the question in those cases more about not being liable in the first place (i.e., the risk is inherent and unavoidable) than in capping liability?
Isn't the question in those cases more about not being liable in the first place (i.e., the risk is inherent and unavoidable) than in capping liability?
Risk in surgery is inherent and unavoidable. Hy job, and the job of the surgical team, is to minimize the risk. Easier for me to do, because worst case scenarios already have precedent (barring an experimental procedure, which is what BP has done here).
Was what happened here with BP and Transocean foreseeable, or was the risk inherent and unavoidable? What could have BP and Transocean done to minimize risk? We don't seem to even know exactly how this mess started.
Risk in surgery can be traced to the very procedure being done. Capping liability is in the interest of keeping surgery affordable for most people and medicine is a very highly regulated profession, as is the oil industry.
Having no contingency plans and having you contingency plans fail are two different things. What you are complaining about is the lack of BP to not have a miracle in its back pocket.
That's part of the problem, too. Reality is messy and chaotic and sometimes overcomes our best possible efforts. That may be part of this, too, though I do think BP assumed a little too much here. That's just a guess and may be wrong.
BP did have a contingency plan: redundant blowoup preventers. BP actually installed four blowout preventers, but unfortunately they all failed. The reason for the failure has not been determined.
The Feds also had a contingency plan: fire booms. Unlike BP, which at least implemented their contingency plan, the Feds never bothered to even buy the fire booms, not to mention their failure to deploy such equipment and train in their use.
The meme that "Obama is on vacation", and that the Almighty Cult of the President can actually do something, is stupid. Stop playing into TEAM RED's bullshit.
Hey, Obama is the one who says its his responsibility, who plays up the Cult of the President, who has cabinet members boasting about shoving BP out of the way and having their boot on its neck.
I'm just pointing out that, not only is this all bullshit, the administration's not even acting like they believe the bullshit they are peddling.
While everything you say may be true, it's also completely the TEAM RED talking point on this, and is also insipid and without substance, which I would expect from partisans, but not you.
If you adopt TEAM RED TEAM BLUE talking points, you sound like them: fucking stupid. I suggest avoiding that.
From a PR POV, what RC is saying is consistent, Epi. When he makes ridiculous speeches and the MSM bestows deity on this bozo, then I expect consistency to be applied here. James fucking Cameron? C'mon Epi. He deserves all the derision heaped his way.
Look, Cameron once filmed a movie about discovering an ancient species that lived at the bottom of the sea. This makes him an expert on everything sea related. Titanic is just icing on the cake; that was only a movie about a boat that ended up on the bottom.
Look, since Cameron seems to be incapable of separating fantasy from reality, why doesn't he just call on Aquaman to fix it? After all, he directed Vince as Aquaman in Entourage, so he knows Aquaman personally. As long as Ari says it's OK.
Yanno, since we're playing "The Land of Make-Believe" here, why don't they hire someone who actually builds stuff that WORKS? Like say, Stark Industries.
Throw in Bruckheimer and you may have stumbled upon the solution. However, there is always the danger that a concentration of evil of that magnitude could ignite the seas and destroy the world. Dare we risk it?
If it immolates them in the process, I say: YES. Let's do it.
You dopes forgot Paul Verhoeven. He could add all sorts of diabolical solutions to this. He did direct Sharon Stone, so he is familiar with holes that belch fluid.
You are more of a quack than I thought possible. Verhoeven did Total Recall, Robocop, The 4th Man, and, while you may not like them, there is a glorious campiness to Starship Troopers and Showgirls.
But I'm guessing that Michael Bay, who once made a movie that was actually about a deep-water drilling crew sent to stop a catastrophe with a nuke, is jealous.
What we really need is someone who doesn't know how to fail.
"His work on the film "Titanic," he said, gave him exposure to some of the world's top experts who work in deep-sea environments. That started him thinking that those trying to stop the oil flow didn't have the right skill set"
Yeah, uh huh.
This is the same kind of nonsense as Meryl Streep testifying at Congressional hearings about alar on apples and Jessica Lange doing the same about farm policy.
Perhaps we could send a robot from the future to blow up the platform before the leak started...
Only to discover that the robot caused the leak, giving the film a perfect Twilight Zone twist ending!
Now I'm not a deep sea engineer or anything, nor have I let myself read the technical details of the failed attempts to stop the leak(I'm depressed enough already), but couldn't they just bury it with something heavy. Like dirt. We have a lot of dirt. I suppose it would disperse before reaching the leak if dumped on the surface, but there has got to be a way to bag it, let it sink en masse onto the problem zone, and maybe some robots can seal it up.
I'm mean, it's analagous to the theoretical asteroid problem where we could just hit an incoming object with an object of similar mass at a similar speed in a way.
If pornography has taught me anything, its that a hole can always be plugged. It might take the biggest heaviest giant black python in the world to do it, but it can be done. And white women seem to like it.
I frankly don't understand why what they are trying now wasn't tried well before top kill.
You cover it with a large, heavy cap with a hose to the surface and pump like mad. Split the hose into 2, 3, or 8 as it reaches the surface if you need more pumping volume than normal. Worry about separating the oil and gas from the seawater you had to pump too at the surface or later.
"[C]over[ing] it with a large, heavy cap with a hose to the surface..." was essentialy what they tried last month with the "box" (about the size of a four story building) that they built and then towed out and sank over it.
Unfortunately the thing got clogged up with ice formed due to the natural gas in the mix (I know there are more sciency fellows here who can actually explain that one).
Michael Bay isn't aware. I think he would use giant robot testicles to stop the leak.
If we are going to the movies for solutions, we need Bruce Willis and his rag-tag group of surly oil drillers to solve this conundrum. Oh but Ben Affleck has to have sex with Willis's daughter or this shit won't work.
James Cameron is the greatest popcorn blockbuster producer the world has ever known. However, decent movie maker that he is, he's kinda of an enviro freak.
Get that big maid with the vacuum cleaner from Space Balls, waterproof her, and suck all that wonderful oil up... After which she can just waltz to the nearest refinery.
The chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff says the oil industry is better-equipped than the U.S. military to deal with the massive oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico.
In a televised interview on ABC's Good Morning America Monday, Admiral Mike Mullen responded to suggestions that the military should take the lead in the oil spill containment and clean-up.
Mullen said military officials have looked at the equipment the military has available, but that the best technology exists in the oil industry.
Mullen said military officials have looked at the equipment the military has available, but that the best technology exists in the oil industry.
"Hmm. No, no, none of these guns will work. And neither will that tank. And--Private, I told you to get that grenade out of my face! It's not going to work!"
I finally saw Avatar. What a load of crap! It's nothing but cowboys and indians. Actually it's a complete rip off of Dances with Wolves. The Na'vi were so stereotypical Native American I found the whole thing racist.
He may or may not be right about his level of expertise, but for some reason this sounds like a real life version of Team America (of course we can fight, we've all done action movies!)
Directing or more accurately producing movies is actually often like running a multinational company... Only real difference is that the company exists for a very short amount of time and everything can be done with half-assed duct-tape jobs cause once it's done if everything falls to pieces it doesn't matter anymore.
What I got out of Cameron's statement was not that he, personally, knows how to stop the leak, but that he knows people who might, and that he knows them well enough to persuade them to do it, where the government/BP cohort couldn't. I could be wrong, as could he.
The government is ruling out the use of a nuclear weapon because:
1. I started that meme and they don't want to give me credit for it.
2. They know it's the only thing that will work other than waiting months for a relief well, so of course that is the one measure they have to deny.
And the RusComs did it first.
And I hear it worked 4 out of 5 times...
Odd, the average dentition of Russkies is rather poor.
How about MacGyver? Has anyone contacted MacGyver yet?
Shut your butt 🙂
Two rolls of duct tape could easily solve this whole mess.
Um, McGyver would only need one roll.
And a bobby pin, a grommet, and three nickles.
I really hope that SNL does a MacGruber skit about the oil leak...too soon?
To Cameron's credit, he is well connected to the deep sea exploration community. And I bet he's on a short list of people who have spent significant time below 2500 feet.
Besides, we all know that the Government is going to simply continue running around blindfolded. So why give Cameron grief for stepping up to the plate?
Because Cameron actually doesn't know shit. So what that he spent a bunch of time below 2500 feet. Did he design the equipment to get there? Did he operate said equipment? Does he actually have any experience in the gas or oil industry? Let's see: No. No. And No are the answers to those questions.
Shit, its like saying some bean counter should work on a aircraft issue since he spends so much time flying around on 747's at 35,000'.
There's a classic bagpipe strathspey, "The Cameronian Rant" (the greatest strathspey ever composed, it just so happens).
If the title weren't already taken, I'd recommend using it for this article.
if I knew what a "strathspey" was, I'd recommend it too!
Crap, now I've gotta go look it up
Those blue aliens from Pandora are at one with nature, right? Send them down there to take care it! If they can defeat a bunch of well-armed mercenaries, this should be a cakewalk.
Can we use Sean Penn's head to plug the hole?
That might work, but a better bet would be to use Michael Moore's fat ass.
THAT bulk could hold back at least a hundred gazzillion PSI of pressure.
I say we just leave it. It's not like anybody will care once Skynet destroys humanity.
The little bedroom dance in that little black dreess that Jamie did in True Lies was soooo freakin, hot.
To Cameron's credit, he is well connected to the deep sea exploration community.
At a guess, I'd say the deep-water construction dudes have the looking-at-fish part of the job handled.
So why give Cameron grief for stepping up to the plate?
He doesn't know what the plate is, and he's being an asshole about it.
He doesn't know what the plate is, and he's being an asshole about it.
Is there ever a time when Cameron isn't an ass?
No. He was cordial when he finally stopped beating me though.
And he did co-produce Strange Days with you, after all!
To be fair, you did deserve it.
OH wow, never really thought about it that way before.
Lou
http://www.Anonymous-VPN.de.tc
Why a nuke? Why not a conventional explosive?
I think the MOAB is only worth about 11 tons of TNT, where the relatively tiny Hiroshima bomb was about 13000 tons of TNT.
The MOAB is a fuel-air bomb... it needs to be detonated in atmosphere or the air must be integrated into the bomb.
I was thinking the same thing. Isn't a daisy cutter the strongest non-nuclear bomb we have? Wouldn't that work since we're not trying to radiate any slopes? If not, why not?
The daisy cutter is a fuel-air explosive. No air, no boom. MOAB is a conventional explosive, but it is pretty big - nearly the size of a tractor-trailer. a small nuke would fit down the hole, and has the benefit of intense heat that could fuse the rock into glass at the detonation site.
Of course it could also fracture the rock so that instead of a leak through one hole we have hundreds of leaks through larger cracks... but you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet...
But if they could get the pipe in the state they could get a small nuke down it, then they could just cap and pipe the oil to the surface anyway.
from what I hear, the russians place the nuke right beside the leak and not right on top of it...maybe for that very reason, and maybe to throw a bunch of rock and debris on top of the leak
The point is to glassify the rock. A conventional explosive will only make a big hole -- exactly the opposite of what is needed.
OK, understand now. Thanks.
I hear Al Gore knows something about science. Is he available?
Maybe we could plug the hole with him.
Sure, why not? It's not like he's plugging any other holes these days.
To Cameron's credit, he is well connected to the deep sea exploration community.
We don't need exploration. We know where the leak is. Cameron has exactly nothing to offer toward a solution of actually stopping the leak.
This, like everything else this administration does, was 100% about PR and managing the news cycle. See, Obama's doing everything! Throwing the kitchen sink at it!
Never mind that's he's actually on vacation, and has found the time to play golf several times since the well blew.
The meme that "Obama is on vacation", and that the Almighty Cult of the President can actually do something, is stupid. Stop playing into TEAM RED's bullshit.
It was just as dumb to act like Bush could "do something" about Katrina.
However true that might be Epi, he still said, and I quote. "I take full responsibility for this. It's my responsibility," and I'm gonna hold the fucker to it. He said it, he owns it. He made his PR nightmare bed and let him lie it.
Between the federal response to Katrina and the spill, I'd like to think that Louisiana's going to go hyper-libertarian on us. But I doubt it.
Unlikely Saccharin Man. I expect the the welfare state to flourish in the wake of these disasters. The knight on the white unicorn(tm), so's to speak. I predict a lot of that unspent stimulus money to go the way of LA.
Don't count on it. Most of the people whose lives are directly affected by this aren't exactly Obama supporters.
Are you kidding? After the evul free-market Bush ignored Katrina because he hates black people and his deregulation allowed BP to have a disaster due to their greed?
I know the rationalizations. But having the right people in charge still led to disaster. I guess they could wait for the really, really, really, super-right people to come along.
Sure, do that. But anyone who intimates that he can actually do something about it, rather than just calling him a PR flack for saying he will, is going to piss me off.
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I don't want or expect the federal government to get involved. They've done enough capping already--capping liability, that is. They're obviously not competent to deal with such things. This goes for Katrina, too, of course.
On the other hand, this is the same government that wants to control way too much and to project expertise where none exists. There's a lot of hypocrisy on both "sides" of the political argument over this accident.
But he IS doing something! He wants to eliminate tax breaks for oil companies. THAT will stop the leak!
(Not that I approve tax breaks, but how does that help?)
There's no problem that higher taxes won't fix.
The Feds are going to do what the Feds always do: write checks and write legislation and write regulations. And politicians will do what politicians always do: talk and appear for photo ops.
That's all that their time, training, and disposition allows. This is the only way for politicians to let the voters know that they care and are doing something about their problems.
As for the Hollywood gliterati, well, they will grub for publicity wherever the opportunity arises.
My idea is for BP to buy an appropriate nuke from the UK, deploy it in defiance of the US and solve the problem in spite of the gov't.
Well, they are British Petroleum.
BP would lose the well if they used explosives to close it. They aren't going to voluntary destroy their investment.
I believe there is significant worry about destabilizing the Gulf floor by using explosives. It could create fissures down to the oil source and make solving the problem impossible.
That's a legit concern. On a semi related note, I've not heard any Peak Oilists out there saying that the flow will stop on its own.
Maybe we need to just dump tons of rubble on top of the pipe. I mean tons and tons.
If only they hadn't crushed all those clunkers...
Tony, I don't know what you are taking today, but you are firing on all cylinders today. Good point. I am not a geologist, so any house geologists, is there a such concern regarding destabilization of the area with regard to depth and pressure containing such a blast?
Not a geologist, but from a logical perspective. The russians did it, and it worked 4 out of 5 times; nations did underwater testing of nuclear devices all the time without upsetting any kind of stability; and unless the rig was drilling on a fault line (which is a dumbass move in the first place) you can't get much more stable than a mile underneath the surface of the ocean.
now that we're getting Hollywood involved, they might as well do a mythbusters episode on using nukes to seal the oil leak...
All time series finale. How do you top using a nuke?
I'm not sure Cameron is claiming that his logged dive time is the relevant factor. Nor is his ability to make pretty pictures at depth.
What is relevant are two factors: 1) his personal relationships with dozens of the most experienced deep water workers in the world. 2) his excellent ability (as evidenced in directing and producing film companies with budgets in the several hundred million dollar range) in bringing together large groups of experts in diverse fields to work towards a single goal.
Cameron is more qualified to run that operation than anyone Obama's got.
Cameron is more qualified to run that operation than anyone Obama's got.
See Praise, faint, damning with
Cameron is more qualified to run that operation than anyone Obama's got.
And extremely less qualified than the people BP already have working on it.
This.
What is relevant are two factors: 1) his personal relationships with dozens of the most experienced deep water workers in the world
I suspect they have the "deep water working" part covered. It's the "stopping the leak" part that's causing some headaches. If he knows somebody like that, I'm sure BP would love to get in touch with them.
Those qualifications have resulted in jack shit so far.
By that logic, since the Cubs haven't won a championship in 100 years, there's no reason for them not to play parapalegic midgets at every position next year.
Hey, speaking of that, they can't prevent short people from playing anymore, can they? That would be a clear ADA violation, one would think.
Either that..
.. or the best people are working on it and the problem is really fucking hard to solve.
Really? Who are those people, and what large scale disasters have they successfully managed?
What large scale disasters have the deep sea exploration teams worked on?
Well, Cameron used the RV Keldysh and MIR submersibles on Titanic. That equipment and associated operators are used by Gazprom for their deep pipeline work. Simply calling them explorers underestimates their capabilities.
That still doesn't answer my question.
The idea that a Hollywood director of mostly shit films, who took a couple of rides in a submersible, is more qualified than companies that do deep water drilling for a living is laughable. Wait, no, it's fucking hysterical.
Jebus Christ on a cracker. If the millions of dollars that BP that is losing every day isn't incentive enough to close the leak, never mind the billions of $$$ that they'll be on the hook for when all is said and done, I don't know what is. What I do know is that an attention-whoring movie maker sure as hell isn't going to have the answer.
I specifically said in my first post that Cameron's rides in subs were not relevant. Nor did I mention the quality of his films. What is relevant is his ability to MANAGE A GROUP OF PEOPLE.
The space shuttle Challenger disaster demonstrated the problems that arise when you ask engineers to double as project managers.
Clearly the experts at deep water drilling aren't proving to be experts in deep water capping.
Why not bring in as many big brains as possible? That's what Cameron is offering to try to do.
I daresay that a movie director's talents are largely irrelevant to an engineering problem. Even from the administrative perspective.
I'm sure the people involved right now are among the best in the world in oil and undersea engineering. Some problems are difficult to solve, and a bunch of interdisciplinary participants aren't likely to improve the situation. They could, however, help fuck things up even more.
" bunch of interdisciplinary participants aren't likely to improve the situation"
Especially when the "interdisciplinary participant" from Hollywood has introduced himself by calling everybody else a bunch of morons.
Why not bring in as many big brains as possible? That's what Cameron is offering to try to do.
"Holy shit! Bring in experts? I guess that's why you're paid the big bucks Mr. Cameron; you think of things no one else can. Would you like some cream in your coffee, sir?"
"These guys are morons who don't know what they're doing" =/= "What is relevant is his ability to MANAGE A GROUP OF PEOPLE."
He's a people person, dammit!!!
they might have more experience using deep sea robotics, so you know, there's less chance of saws getting stuck
But I agree that Cameron's ego might be a little too big in thinking that he can blow a conch shell and assemble a better team than the millions of dollars BP's already put into the situation.
The people who actually built the oil rig in the first place and some of the best engineers in the world.
Prudhoe Bay.
The ones who had no contingency plan for this?
Not to sound all libertarian and anti-government about this, but the lack of a solid contingency plan has a lot to do with the lack of legal liability (which is capped seriously below where it should be). Granted, BP was foolish not to be more concerned with the reputational hit it's taking, but that's water under the bridge now.
The government has no business capping liability when the liability can be so high. If something can't be done that has a huge downside risk, then don't do it and don't incentivize people to do it by capping the risk. I don't think that's the case here, but this leak shouldn't have happened and shouldn't be such a surprise--as it seems to be.
The government has no business capping liability when the liability can be so high.
I beg to differ Pro'L Dib.
Beg all you want, but I stand by my statement. It's one thing when liability is capped in regards to thinks like punitive damages or in developing new industries with relatively low levels of risk, but to do it here? It just removes incentives to spend extra money on precautionary measures.
It's one thing when liability is capped in regards to thinks like punitive damages
I have a vested interest in this and I agree. However, how is capping the liability of a surgeon who risks losing a patient every surgery different from this disaster? My incentive I would argue is much more dire than losing 300 million gals of oil. 11 people died on Transoceans' rig. I find that more tragic than the 300 million gals of oil dumping into the sea.
Yeah, that's different. For instance, there are some liability shields in place when amateurs attempt rescue efforts.
Isn't the question in those cases more about not being liable in the first place (i.e., the risk is inherent and unavoidable) than in capping liability?
Isn't the question in those cases more about not being liable in the first place (i.e., the risk is inherent and unavoidable) than in capping liability?
Risk in surgery is inherent and unavoidable. Hy job, and the job of the surgical team, is to minimize the risk. Easier for me to do, because worst case scenarios already have precedent (barring an experimental procedure, which is what BP has done here).
Was what happened here with BP and Transocean foreseeable, or was the risk inherent and unavoidable? What could have BP and Transocean done to minimize risk? We don't seem to even know exactly how this mess started.
Risk in surgery can be traced to the very procedure being done. Capping liability is in the interest of keeping surgery affordable for most people and medicine is a very highly regulated profession, as is the oil industry.
What's the contingency plan for an asteroid/comet strike?
What? There is none? Get me Micheal Bay! And Tea Leoni too!
Having no contingency plans and having you contingency plans fail are two different things. What you are complaining about is the lack of BP to not have a miracle in its back pocket.
That's part of the problem, too. Reality is messy and chaotic and sometimes overcomes our best possible efforts. That may be part of this, too, though I do think BP assumed a little too much here. That's just a guess and may be wrong.
BP did have a contingency plan: redundant blowoup preventers. BP actually installed four blowout preventers, but unfortunately they all failed. The reason for the failure has not been determined.
The Feds also had a contingency plan: fire booms. Unlike BP, which at least implemented their contingency plan, the Feds never bothered to even buy the fire booms, not to mention their failure to deploy such equipment and train in their use.
There's lots of blame to spread around.
Isn't a daisy cutter the strongest non-nuclear bomb we have?
Daisy cutters or MOABs are fuel-AIR explosives. You do the math on their undersea utility.
This:
Cameron is more qualified to run that operation than anyone Obama's got.
is perfectly consistent with this:
Cameron has exactly nothing to offer toward a solution of actually stopping the leak.
It's also a damn fine pale ale from Half Acre Beer Company here in Chicago.
Cameron's budget busting scheme to breed blue,remotely controlled fish people has been considered and rejected.
The meme that "Obama is on vacation", and that the Almighty Cult of the President can actually do something, is stupid. Stop playing into TEAM RED's bullshit.
Hey, Obama is the one who says its his responsibility, who plays up the Cult of the President, who has cabinet members boasting about shoving BP out of the way and having their boot on its neck.
I'm just pointing out that, not only is this all bullshit, the administration's not even acting like they believe the bullshit they are peddling.
While everything you say may be true, it's also completely the TEAM RED talking point on this, and is also insipid and without substance, which I would expect from partisans, but not you.
If you adopt TEAM RED TEAM BLUE talking points, you sound like them: fucking stupid. I suggest avoiding that.
From a PR POV, what RC is saying is consistent, Epi. When he makes ridiculous speeches and the MSM bestows deity on this bozo, then I expect consistency to be applied here. James fucking Cameron? C'mon Epi. He deserves all the derision heaped his way.
If you adopt TEAM RED TEAM BLUE talking points, you sound like them: fucking stupid. I suggest avoiding that.
So when TEAM RED says health care reform is going to bust the budget, I am no longer allowed to make this point?
C'mon, they're not right often, but when they are, they are.
Look, Cameron once filmed a movie about discovering an ancient species that lived at the bottom of the sea. This makes him an expert on everything sea related. Titanic is just icing on the cake; that was only a movie about a boat that ended up on the bottom.
Are we gonna need a bigger boat than the Titanic to plug the hole? Because it sounds like we're gonna need a bigger butt plug.
A massive butt plug might just work...
Maybe they should drag the Titanic to the Gulf and use it to plug the hole.
Look, since Cameron seems to be incapable of separating fantasy from reality, why doesn't he just call on Aquaman to fix it? After all, he directed Vince as Aquaman in Entourage, so he knows Aquaman personally. As long as Ari says it's OK.
Yanno, since we're playing "The Land of Make-Believe" here, why don't they hire someone who actually builds stuff that WORKS? Like say, Stark Industries.
You guys are looking at this all wrong. Cameron, by himself, can't solve this problem.
But, the combined forces of Cameron, Bay, Lucas, and Emmerich, will be just too much violent malevolence for any disaster of this magnitude to repel.
Throw in Bruckheimer and you may have stumbled upon the solution. However, there is always the danger that a concentration of evil of that magnitude could ignite the seas and destroy the world. Dare we risk it?
If it immolates them in the process, I say: YES. Let's do it.
Damnit! How could have I forgotten Dreckhammer?
I say yes as well, But only in glorious ultra slo-mo, AND if we can throw Owen Wilson in the hole too.
Owen Wilson is merely a pawn in their diabolical games. Not even on the radar.
Never let a crisis go to waste. This is an opportunity to to use Wilson's powers for good. Maybe a 2-fer with Matthew McConaughey?
You dopes forgot Paul Verhoeven. He could add all sorts of diabolical solutions to this. He did direct Sharon Stone, so he is familiar with holes that belch fluid.
You are more of a quack than I thought possible. Verhoeven did Total Recall, Robocop, The 4th Man, and, while you may not like them, there is a glorious campiness to Starship Troopers and Showgirls.
RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!!
The Kraken could solve this.
How do we know the Kraken didn't cause this? Perhaps this is also why we continue to fail.
Some brave whistle-blower needs to release the tapes.
That's not an oil well! That's the ass of the Kraken!
http://xkcd.com/748/
That one was great indeed.
But I'm guessing that Michael Bay, who once made a movie that was actually about a deep-water drilling crew sent to stop a catastrophe with a nuke, is jealous.
What we really need is someone who doesn't know how to fail.
Uwe Boll?
Only if he's played by Bruce Willis.
You. Are. A. Genius. Can his solution to capping the well be to have a boxing match with it?
Only if accompanied by explosions.
This needs to be an SNL sketch PRONTO.
There's a difference between not knowing how to fail and not knowing that you did.
Is there? IS THERE?
1/5 of the hair gel you use in a single week would be sufficient to seal the oil leak.
The oil leak is 1/5 of the oil his scalp excretes. Why no one has harnessed this guido source of energy is beyond me.
Have you ever watched any of the crap he calls movies? He failed in a big way.
Bruce Willis? Not so much 🙂
"His work on the film "Titanic," he said, gave him exposure to some of the world's top experts who work in deep-sea environments. That started him thinking that those trying to stop the oil flow didn't have the right skill set"
Yeah, uh huh.
This is the same kind of nonsense as Meryl Streep testifying at Congressional hearings about alar on apples and Jessica Lange doing the same about farm policy.
Stick to show biz, James.
That's where your "skill set" is.
Perhaps we could send a robot from the future to blow up the platform before the leak started...
Only to discover that the robot caused the leak, giving the film a perfect Twilight Zone twist ending!
So we send a second robot to protect the well from the other robot sent to kill it.
Now I'm not a deep sea engineer or anything, nor have I let myself read the technical details of the failed attempts to stop the leak(I'm depressed enough already), but couldn't they just bury it with something heavy. Like dirt. We have a lot of dirt. I suppose it would disperse before reaching the leak if dumped on the surface, but there has got to be a way to bag it, let it sink en masse onto the problem zone, and maybe some robots can seal it up.
I'm mean, it's analagous to the theoretical asteroid problem where we could just hit an incoming object with an object of similar mass at a similar speed in a way.
With Barry Bonds giant head available, I don't think we need to go to all that trouble.
The oil is coming out at high pressure. It would just push the dirt out of the way.
If pornography has taught me anything, its that a hole can always be plugged. It might take the biggest heaviest giant black python in the world to do it, but it can be done. And white women seem to like it.
"I know a lot of people who work in deep submergence ? They know the engineering that's required to work at that depth."
Ok, so why don't we bypass the movie maker and go straight to the engineers.. or is he looking for a finder's fee?
I frankly don't understand why what they are trying now wasn't tried well before top kill.
You cover it with a large, heavy cap with a hose to the surface and pump like mad. Split the hose into 2, 3, or 8 as it reaches the surface if you need more pumping volume than normal. Worry about separating the oil and gas from the seawater you had to pump too at the surface or later.
"[C]over[ing] it with a large, heavy cap with a hose to the surface..." was essentialy what they tried last month with the "box" (about the size of a four story building) that they built and then towed out and sank over it.
Unfortunately the thing got clogged up with ice formed due to the natural gas in the mix (I know there are more sciency fellows here who can actually explain that one).
Methane frozen from the high pressure at that depth?
Technically they are methane clathate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
I pretty much knew the mechanics of it. I just are not a good 'splainer.
So what's different this time is that the cap isn't the size of a house, so the methane doesn't have as much chance to expand into the water?
I still would have tried a smaller cap before trying the slam-heavy-mud-into-it trick.
But then IANADSDE.
At the risk of sounding like an old fuddy-duddy; are these people even aware there is a difference between movies and real life?
That's why any fix has to be in 3D.
FTW!
Michael Bay isn't aware. I think he would use giant robot testicles to stop the leak.
If we are going to the movies for solutions, we need Bruce Willis and his rag-tag group of surly oil drillers to solve this conundrum. Oh but Ben Affleck has to have sex with Willis's daughter or this shit won't work.
James Cameron is the greatest popcorn blockbuster producer the world has ever known. However, decent movie maker that he is, he's kinda of an enviro freak.
Peace,
Diamond Trap Star
How about the Wolf? Did Obama call the Wolf yet? He solves problems.
This reminds me of an old science fiction story where God hires Cecil B. Demille to help produce and direct the armageddon.
No word yet on whether Cameron will be bringing in an army of submersible mechs, or what roles Bill Paxton and Sigourney Weaver will play.
It's Bill PULLMAN, you idiot!
Bill Paxton
He was in Aliens, man! Game over!
?
IMDB shows Bill Paxton and James Cameron together in the credits for 9 movies, and Bill Pullman and James Cameron together for 0 movies.
Get that big maid with the vacuum cleaner from Space Balls, waterproof her, and suck all that wonderful oil up... After which she can just waltz to the nearest refinery.
Problem solved.
"We have 'top' people working on this."
"Who?"
"Top."
The chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff says the oil industry is better-equipped than the U.S. military to deal with the massive oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico.
In a televised interview on ABC's Good Morning America Monday, Admiral Mike Mullen responded to suggestions that the military should take the lead in the oil spill containment and clean-up.
Mullen said military officials have looked at the equipment the military has available, but that the best technology exists in the oil industry.
Voice of America
What does he know? I'll bet he's never directed a movie in his life.
"Hmm. No, no, none of these guns will work. And neither will that tank. And--Private, I told you to get that grenade out of my face! It's not going to work!"
Cameron's not an engineer but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I say we bring in the Hawkman.
Been suggesting the nuke thing from the beginning, but who listens to me?
Living on the Gulf Coast (quite a bit southeast of the leak), I'm getting a little creeped out at all the nuke talk.
Worried about some sort of Cajun Godzilla creature being formed? One that destroys Miami, looking for cayenne pepper?
Destroying Miami is a feature, not a bug.
Well, at least the Na'vi never have to worry about millions of gallons of oil destroying their oceans, you stupid gaia-raping libertards.
Don't feed the avatroll.
Oh, Jesus, we're all idiots. Cameron does have a solution: Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
I feel so foolish not to have seen this earlier.
You fool. That's Sigourney Weaver's solution. And maybe Michael Biehn too, but she was always the brains of the pair.
Yes, but Cameron knows how to work with them. Those are the brains he plans to bring to the table.
Strange how Paul Reiser has been absent from these activities. Has anyone seen him since the initial explosion? Coincidence? I think not.
He's been quiet. Too quiet.
That would explain a few things.
I finally saw Avatar. What a load of crap! It's nothing but cowboys and indians. Actually it's a complete rip off of Dances with Wolves. The Na'vi were so stereotypical Native American I found the whole thing racist.
Yeah, but the Na'vi had better choreography.
It could be a ripoff of Disney's Pocahontas...
But I think it might be a ripoff of Frank Herbert's Dune or, more likely, The Jesus Incident.
All I can do is laugh. I direct movies. You morons running multi-billion dollar multi-national companies no nothing. I made Titanic!!!
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/.....rtainment/
He may or may not be right about his level of expertise, but for some reason this sounds like a real life version of Team America (of course we can fight, we've all done action movies!)
Directing or more accurately producing movies is actually often like running a multinational company... Only real difference is that the company exists for a very short amount of time and everything can be done with half-assed duct-tape jobs cause once it's done if everything falls to pieces it doesn't matter anymore.
What I got out of Cameron's statement was not that he, personally, knows how to stop the leak, but that he knows people who might, and that he knows them well enough to persuade them to do it, where the government/BP cohort couldn't. I could be wrong, as could he.