Reason Writers on the Videotaped Radio: Matt Welch Debates H1-B Visas With Thom Hartmann

On May 13, while taking a break from his work as a parking valet, Reason Editor in Chief Matt Welch appeared on lefty Thom Hartmann's syndicated radio program to have a totally civil conversation about whether the United States should allow smart foreigners to work here. Fireworks below:

Comments

[just sayin' that]

Thom Hartmann is a moron

[slutmonkey]

Seriously. I wouldn't go on this show again--especially not via telephone. Not because the guy is an idiot, but because he won't let you get a word in edgewise. You can't argue with someone who won't let you speak or finish your points.

[Astrid]

I agree, that guy is a fucking moron.

[Bill O'Reilly]

You can't argue with someone who won't let you speak or finish your points.

Fuck you!

[k-y]

We'll do it live!

[Sudden]

There's no fucking words there!

[The Gobbler]

I call bullshit.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Excuse me, waiter, could I get the check please?

[Keyboard Commando]

No shit. I thought he was going to bust out "Peg O' My Heart".

[ClubMedSux]

I'm still trying to figure out what I need to do to get another glass of fucking chardonnay.

[Thom Harttman]

another glass of fucking American chardonnay

[Fitzroy]

Who the hell paid him $10 000 for one lecture?

[Apogee]

Yeah. Decimates his "we need the Government to protect jobs" argument.

Apparently the foreign 'paperwork' wasn't enough to keep him from collecting 10G's and stealing a speaking engagement from some foreign country's village idiot.

It's distressing that retards like Hartmann are so absolutely confused about trade and markets. Apparently we could just have the government employ each one of us and then give us everything we want. No need for trade, right?

[Subsidize Me!]

Market mar?ket noun a venue in which commodities are exchanged in accordance with guidelines, directives, regulations and other considerations established in order to achieve collective equality and diminish negative social and societal impact, e.g., a free market. See also market failure

Maybe you're not up to date on your newspeak.

[Astrid]

Somebody who does't understand the value of $10,000 dollars is my guess.

[ClubMedSux]

What an asshole... He should have let them pay a native Australian $15k to give the same speech.

[Naga Sadow]

Thom seems to have learned his rhetorical skills from South Park's Cartman.

[Bill]

Not only is he a moron. He is an arrogant, self-righteous moron. Are you sure he's a leftist? I thought they loved humanity?

[ClubMedSux]

I love how the left bitched and moaned about how talk radio is dominated by right-wing ideological blowhards who dumb down political discourse, and then their answer is to produce left-wing ideological blowhards like Harttman who dumb down political discourse.

[Astrid]

On May 13, while taking a break from his work as a parking valet, Reason Editor in Chief Matt Welch

Reason not paying the bills Matt?

[gnoming]

I like the classic handset, its a nice touch.

[El Capitano]

Wait a minute. This guy is a liberal? Damn, the nativism is everywhere.

[ClubMedSux]

But it's anti-corporate, anti-globalization, pro-worker nativism, so it's okay.

[El Capitano]

Also: THEY TOOK 'R JERRRRBS

[Jimmy Lou Lou]

Oh wow, now that is some pretty cool stuff dude.

Lou
http://www.complete-anonymity.at.tc

[ClubMedSux]

So, wait... Does the anonymity bot also generate the comment itself? If so, I'd much rather have Geoff Peterson commenting here; his auto-comments are much funnier.

[heller]

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUCHEBAG!

[?]

Wait a minute. This guy is a liberal? Damn, the nativism is everywhere.

I can't listen, and I don't know the guy's deal, but Pat Buchanan-style ethnic protectionism is a lefty thing, mostly.
I don't like H1B (or any "worker" system) either, because fascisty state/corporate teamups R bad, and native-labor displacement by the state is usually a low-level-race-war kind of deal. Against teh blacks, in this case. Maybe.

Secretly racist lefties who want to yell "racist!" at everybody else should probably take that angle on it. If they still can.

[Subsidize Me!]

What do you tell someone with an Advanced Degree? who refuses to work for less than their perceived worth?

Any response to this question that does not involve rope and a towel bar is FAIL. Thom deserved a pimp-slap and an "oh no u di'int," Matt.

[D-FENS]

I think the answer there should have been, "You should ask your friend if he looked at the market for computer scientists before deciding to blow $100k (of borrowed money) on that Masters' degree."

I went to grad school because I managed to get research fellowships; I wouldn't have done it if it required going into debt. As it is, I wound up over-qualifying myself for the jobs I'd rather have, and am now trying to regress to.

[Subsidize Me!]

You mean to tell me there are privately-funded merit-based methods of attaining advanced degrees? And, that based upon your work experience, people might possibly attain employment prerferable to their taste without post-graduate edjimacation? This cannot be.

Your local Nazi military-surplus store owner and I wish you luck in finding enjoyable long-term employment.

[Spartacus]

This. Anybody who can't get an assistantship and/or research fellowship to pay for grad school in the sciences is either way too choosy about their school (MIT didn't offer me a fellowship so I HAVE to take out loans!!!!!) or can't get admitted to anything except Full Sail.

[Tara Davis]

Matt tore him apart on his own show. That was beautiful.

[Dagny T.]

Besides all of the other stupid coming from Thom's piehole, the oddly retro Western Europe fanboi-ism was especially puzzling. Nice to see his parroting talking points from a decade ago about how gosh darned enlightened the Scandinavians are received the deserved Welch smackdown.

[Tman]

Someone is still arguing that computer engineers can't find work because no one will pay them enough?

Seriously?

So this idiot wants to turn the IT sector in to GM?

Someone has paid money to have this same idiot give a speech?

Well done Matt. I would've hung up on this imbecile within the first two minutes.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Someone is still arguing that computer engineers can't find work because no one will pay them enough?

Actually, that only applies to old computer engineers, because younger Americans are smart enough to avoid going into science and technology fields. They already know they're going to get undercut by H1-B's.

Ever wonder why we suddenly have so many bankers and lawyers?

[Tman]

younger Americans are smart enough to avoid going into science and technology fields.

They are? America is still among the world leaders in science and technology. The H1-B's have contributed to this exponentially. This is what Matt was trying to tell this idiot. Yes, a lot of the H1b's will work for less money, but that's not the immigrants fault, it's simply what the market dictates.

Part of the reason GM can't compete with Toyota or Honda is because they pay too much for the workers to do the same job, when you include in the union costs and benefit programs. The answer to this problem is NOT to force Toyota to pay more to their workers, the answer is for GM to either cut costs or fail as a business.

It's the same in the IT world, if not more so. And this idiot argues for employment borders to stop allowing people in to our country who IMPROVE our industry so that some 38 year old schmuck who didn't see the writing on the wall can keep making his bloated undeserved salary.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

They are? America is still among the world leaders in science and technology. The H1-B's have contributed to this exponentially. This is what Matt was trying to tell this idiot. Yes, a lot of the H1b's will work for less money, but that's not the immigrants fault, it's simply what the market dictates.

And I didn't argue otherwise. But the point here is, that this isn't because Americans are dumb - let me point out that our original tech revolutionaries - such as Gates, Jobs, Ellison, et al, are Americans.

But the point you and Welch want to avoid is that the reason most of your modern Silicon Valley entrepreneurs are foreigners is because we have created substantial disincentives for smart Americans to go into those fields.

And of course, after Americans have been discouraged from going into those fields, you use that as an argument to bring in even more foreign labor!

So you have a vicious cycle - H1-B's drive down labor prices, discouraging American workers from entering those fields, which necessitates bringing in more H1-B's, driving wages lower still. Rinse, lather, repeat.

It's got nothing to do with the H1-B's being smarter and more entrepreneurial than the natives. It has everything to do with driving talented Americans out of those fields.

[Tman]

the reason most of your modern Silicon Valley entrepreneurs are foreigners is because we have created substantial disincentives for smart Americans to go into those fields.

We have? What "substantial disincentives" have we "created"? You mean we pay them less? Tough cookies. I've changed careers three times in my life. America doesn't "owe" me a job at the salary of my choosing, and the DUMBEST thing we can do is to turn the most efficient and groundbreaking advantage our economy has to offer the world (IT) in to the next GM.

after Americans have been discouraged from going into those fields, you use that as an argument to bring in even more foreign labor!

Your definition of "discouraged" seems rather dramatic. Unless I'm interpreting you incorrectly, are you saying the "discouragement" is because Johnny C+ programmer won't make $90K anymore because Maharapta H1-B will do the job for $60K?

This isn't "discouragement". It's called "reality".

It's got nothing to do with the H1-B's being smarter and more entrepreneurial than the natives. It has everything to do with driving talented Americans out of those fields.

What complete crock of shit.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

We have? What "substantial disincentives" have we "created"? You mean we pay them less? Tough cookies. I've changed careers three times in my life. America doesn't "owe" me a job at the salary of my choosing, and the DUMBEST thing we can do is to turn the most efficient and groundbreaking advantage our economy has to offer the world (IT) in to the next GM.

The dumbest thing I've heard today is a comparison between GM and the IT industry.

How many unions do you see in the IT industry? Oops! There aren't any!

Your definition of "discouraged" seems rather dramatic. Unless I'm interpreting you incorrectly, are you saying the "discouragement" is because Johnny C+ programmer won't make $90K anymore because Maharapta H1-B will do the job for $60K?

This isn't "discouragement". It's called "reality".

Yes! And the reality is that when Johnny C++'s kid sees his old man is unemployable because foreign labor has pushed him out of the market, what do you think he's gonna study in college? Comp Sci, or law? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out!

[Tman]

How many unions do you see in the IT industry? Oops! There aren't any!

So why are you arguing for union-like protectionism of these IT jobs?

the reality is that when Johnny C++'s kid sees his old man is unemployable because foreign labor has pushed him out of the market, what do you think he's gonna study in college? Comp Sci, or law?

So your solution is to control the market so Johnny can keep his job at his desired salary? You don't see how retarded and pointless this is?

[And another thing...]

So your solution is to control the market so Johnny can keep his job at his desired salary? You don't see how retarded and pointless this is?

I notice the two companies you mentioned as eating GM's lunch are Japanese.

Given that Japan allows virtually no immigration, how are they kicking GM's ass using a strategy you've just defined as "retarded and pointless"?

[Tman]

see below.

[xx]

Funny how the argument jumps from "This foreigner is taking my $90k job and doing it for $60k" to "unemployable because foreign labor has pushed me out of the market" -- If you don't generate $30k more in value for your employer than the immigrant, why do you think you deserve $30k more than him?

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Actually, I know plenty of people in that field who would be happy to work for any price they could get. Unfortunately, in a large number of cases, Americans are not even under consideration.

But let's put that aside - even if you don't have any sympathy for currently unemployed tech workers, do you really think it's smart to create an economic environment where your brightest students are avoiding going into science and technology fields? Because that's what's happening. Go look at college enrollments if you don't believe that. Look at the number of applicants to law schools as opposed to the number of applicants to post-grad science and technology majors. Compare that to 10 years ago.

This is not because American students are stupid and lazy. This is because our system of incentives encourages smart students to avoid going into science and technology fields. And foreign labor is one of those incentives.

[Subsidize Me!]

Apparently, the level of success achieved by these disincentives hasn't eradicated the American tech geek, or else Thom would lack a constituency of conditionally unemployed collectivists to support his cattle felching habit.

Of couse, this assumes that Thom isn't in fact creating a solution to a problem that doesn't exist in order to further his own collectivist utopian views...

[And another thing...]

Part of the reason GM can't compete with Toyota or Honda is because they pay too much for the workers to do the same job, when you include in the union costs and benefit programs. The answer to this problem is NOT to force Toyota to pay more to their workers, the answer is for GM to either cut costs or fail as a business.

I notice that the two corporations you mention as kicking GM's ass are Japanese.

Given that Japan permits virtually no immigration, would you like to explain how such unenlightened, provincial boobs are kicking our asses?

[Tman]

Given that Japan permits virtually no immigration, would you like to explain how such unenlightened, provincial boobs are kicking our asses?

Toyota and Honda both employ over 100,000 Americans in America, and more than half of the cars sold in the US by these two are actually made here in the US.

They, along with Ford, are kicking GM's ass for a variety of reasons, but most of it has to do with the unreasonable demands from the Unions, along with critically inept management from the top on down and a tone deaf ear to what their customers want.

Japans immigration policy has nothing to do with GM's failures.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Toyota and Honda both employ over 100,000 Americans in America, and more than half of the cars sold in the US by these two are actually made here in the US.

And I'll point out the only reason that those jobs exist in America are through trade agreements, not through the free market. It would actually be cheaper for them to manufacture those cars in Japan and ship them over here.

btw, GM is only failing in America. They are the largest auto manufacturer in China. That's why they dissolved the Pontiac brand, but kept Buick. Apparently Buicks are popular in China.

[Tman]

the only reason that those jobs exist in America are through trade agreements, not through the free market.

I would like to see some more specifics for this claim. What trade agreements? Why would Japan purposely lose money on the manufacture of their product? Is it because they have a trade agreement that by doing so they save money? I don't know the answer, but apparently you think you do so I would like to hear it.

GM is only failing in America. They are the largest auto manufacturer in China.

Good, then China can have them. GM is walking disaster.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/0.....3-billion/

General Motors has just announced it has completed fresh-start accounting as part of its quest to return to public ownership, and the numbers don't exactly look good. GM says that it will announce a $4.3 billion loss for the fourth-quarter of 2009.

Despite relatively strong sales last year, the company had to pay out two large lumps of cash. First, $2.6 billion went to a UAW retiree medical plan. Another $1.6 billion went out the door thanks to "foreign currency re-measurement loss." Despite the daunting figures, GM still says it's confident the company can get back on its feet and start operating at a profit by the end of this year. Given the fact that the company is still aiming to return the large majority of its US Treasury and Export Development Canada loans, getting The General back on its feet may be easier said than done.

Look! They ONLY lost $4.3 BILLION! They'll be back in shape in no time!

[Slap the Enlightened!]

I would like to see some more specifics for this claim. What trade agreements? Why would Japan purposely lose money on the manufacture of their product? Is it because they have a trade agreement that by doing so they save money? I don't know the answer, but apparently you think you do so I would like to hear it.

Here ya go!

[Tman]

The VER (Voluntary Export Restraints) program was terminated in 1994. I see your point that Japanese auto makers opened plants in the US so they could avoid the VER, but that advantage ended over fifteen years ago. If it was no longer beneficial from a VER standpoint to manufacture cars in the US, then why have they increased their stateside manufacturing percentage since then?

A interesting side note about the VER from Wiki-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Export_Restraints

"In the short run, the Detroit Three auto manufacturers did reap enormous[citation needed] profits as the market suddenly became less competitive. However, GM didn't reinvest the money back into its core operations and upgrade them to Japanese standards. GM didn't reinvest the money in ways that would lower the cost, and improve the quality of cars that went to the showrooms. GM failed in the 1980s because it tried to solve problems without addressing their fundamental, underlying causes. As Keller comments, "Acquiring EDS and Hughes was like the four-hundred-pound woman coloring her hair and doing her nails. It wasn't tackling the real problem."[xlviii] Its problem was not that it was short of technology; it was that it was a badly organized, insular, backward-looking, and inefficient producer of motor vehicles. Smith's obsession with technology made no impact on GM's ability to compete."

[Slap the Enlightened!]

The VER (Voluntary Export Restraints) program was terminated in 1994. I see your point that Japanese auto makers opened plants in the US so they could avoid the VER, but that advantage ended over fifteen years ago. If it was no longer beneficial from a VER standpoint to manufacture cars in the US, then why have they increased their stateside manufacturing percentage since then?

Because the Japanese aren't stupid. If they withdrew from North America and did their manufacturing soley in Japan, how long do you think it would be before another VER or tariff was slapped on them?

The Japanese know that too. They aren't about to provoke a trade war with one of their biggest markets.

[Tman]

So let's return to the initial argument.

How has Japans immigration policy affected GM?

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Other than as an example pointing out that being a premier industrial and technological society isn't reliant on immigration, it doesn't.

[Tman]

being a premier industrial and technological society isn't reliant on immigration

No one said we are "reliant" on immigration, but there is a difference between benefiting from immigration and blocking immigration to protect jobs the market can't afford. And my point about the auto industry shows you that you cannot "protect" jobs at a higher salary if the company can find people to do the same quality job for a lower cost. They will either do them over here with cheaper labor or pick their shit up and move where the same job can be done for less cost.

[Wakjob]

GM's failure has to do with the fact that it signed a $300 million outsourcing deal with India's WIPRO in 2006 and then went bankrupt 2 years later due to NON-PERFORMING workers. GM was BOOMING in 2006. America doesn't reward non-performers. Time to send all the Indian workers who didn't perform back where they came from. And yes, a large part of Japan's success is its tight immigration policy. They don't want what they have created destroyed by non-performers from the 3rd world.

[Wakjob]

Toyota and Japanese companies pay their people VERY well. It's ingrained in japanese culture.

[The Gobbler]

"taking a break from his work as a parking valet, Reason Editor in Chief Matt Welch"

Congrats on the promotion; it's long overdue.

[Matt Welch]

Thanks! Though valet parking was better back when, etc.

[ClubMedSux]

Matt Welch: single-handedly disproving the myth that Americans don't want jobs traditionally filled by immigrants.

[SIV]

You didn't apologize for slavery.

[MWG]

Wow, that guy's a douche bag...

[hmm]

I concur.

[johnl]

How can any of you people talk about the contents of that show instead of Matt's clothes?

[Big Chief]

Matt,
Your Les Nessman outfit was good, but you need the band-aid to pull off the total look.

And the Lou Dobbs comment was my favorite. He seemed truly horrified by that comparison. That should be the strategy, tell the leftist isolationist he sounds just like the rightist isolationist and vice versa.

[HenriR]

"wages create demand" yes and demand creates what? *crickets chirping* Then again one should hardly be surprised that a left-leaning commentator fails to appreciate the importance of actually creating something ---you know, producing things and making something people want?

Why not just announce the White House will now pay every American 100k$ a year, the US economy ought to become unstoppable!

[johnl]

I forgot to add, for a magazine named "reason" ...

[MWG]

Matt, instead of the valet suit, you should have worn a black turtleneck with your hair slicked back... being as Thom is such a fanboy for German style economics...

http://www.delawareonline.com/.....786777.jpg

[BakedPenguin]

Now is the time on Reason ven ve dance!

[xx]

I don't like H1-B visas....I think the visa-holder should be the immigrant, not the business.

It's basically wage slavery, since if you get fired, you have to leave the country.

[hmm]

My Russian sister-in-law worked under an H1-B until she became a citizen. Finally. Hartman is a fucking retard. I'd take my siser-in-law as an employee over 50% of the US population. She is more driven, her work ethic is better, her willingness to continue learning is higher. As anecdotal as it is she was/is a superior employee than many US citizens, and now she is a US citizen.

He needed to qualify his argument with ask any Keynesian economist about wages.

GO ALBERT!!!

[hmm]

New dynamic duo? Bow Tie and The Jacket?

[BakedPenguin]

I hope not. The joke's been done, but I thought someone was going to tell Matt he needed more flair.

And that guy's a moron. He got paid $10k for a speech in Australia? Don't they already have plenty of morons in Oz?

[Astrid]

Apparently they needed to import this level of stupid.

[BakedPenguin]

Matt, your wife's French, right? Couldn't you get her to dress you?

[hello]

i'm glad he gave you a chance to talk *sarcasm. that host is a prick. excuse the language.

[Stephen]

Matt, hope you don't waste your time again with this idiot.

[sage]

Never heard of the guy. But what a dicklord.

[DDavis]

It is disturbing to see libertarians coming out in favor of the H1-B program.

If you want open borders, fine. If you want open borders for "highly skilled workers", fine. Let them come, and let them apply for jobs like everyone else. It's arguable we'd be better off that way. But have the argument based on a free and open model.

But don't come out in favor of subsidizing particular industries, giving them vouchers for the right to live and work in the US that they can use as a bargaining chip to entice indentured servants from abroad.

The H1B program is the antithesis of a free market, and hugely corrupting to corporate America. It introduces enormous opportunities for graft for the corporate handlers of the indentured servants, who generate a huge cashflow based on nothing more productive than working the bureaucracy and paperwork of the H1B program, and gaining control of a set of indentured servants.

[MikeP]

Let's say these are your choices:

1. H-1B visas for high skilled immigrants.
2. Unlimited visas for high skilled immigrants.
3. No visas for high skilled immigrants.

We all know that it is insane not to pursue choice 2. Unfortunately choice 2 is not on the table. Those who argue loudly against H-1B visas are arguing for 3, not for open borders or even for unlimited high skilled immigration.

Given that everyone involved is better off with H-1B visas than with no visas and that, indentured or not, H-1B visas are a free choice, how could libertarians not prefer H-1B visas to no visas?

[SIV]

Unfortunately choice 2 is not on the table.

Just like ending welfare and other entitlements isn't on the table. Hence why many Americans support restricting low skilled immigrants and their families as the easiest way to limit welfare recipients.

[hmm]

Mr. Welch deserves a pat on the back for not calling him an idiot and telling him to shut the fuck up. I wouldn't have made it 10 seconds.

[zoltan]

I think the problem with IT is that many in the field expect to make the amount they were when there was high demand with little supply. Now that hundreds of thousands of Americans are going into the field there are far more of them willing to work at a lower wage. I'd bet those high-school Cisco and vocational programs are lowering wages more than H-1B visas are.

[Rimfax]

His Computer Scientist friend with a Masters Degree who can't get a decent paying job isn't telling the whole story. His problem definitely isn't labor competition from foreigners.

[xx]

+1

I'd say he's got a Masters in Bullshit.

As Matt said, there are only 65k H1-B visas per year, for the entire country. If you think that's why you can't find a job, you're an idiot, which is a much better explanation for why you can't find a job.

[MikeP]

The stupidity of hampering high skilled immigration defies comprehension.

The more high skilled workers in the US, the more readily that US companies and workers can leverage their skills. Software is only the most dramatic example in that the more high value software is produced, the more software there is to produce.

But the alternative to high skilled immigration is that those skilled would-be immigrants stay in their home countries where American companies and workers are less able to leverage those skills.

Entire companies are built around those skills. If those skilled workers come to the US, those companies and the ancillary product management, marketing, sales, administration, etc., are in the US. If those skilled workers can't come to the US, the companies will be built elsewhere because that is the most efficient way to use those skills.

[DanT]

Remarkable restraint, Matt - you didn't call him what he is. Hartmann must have excelled in high school & college creative writing classes... he can go off on a tangent and engage in unfounded hyperbole quicker than anyone else I've heard lately.

[Wakjob]

Our 'economic downturn' started when we started bringing these people in. US's economy was booming when Silicon Valley was run by white Americans, who invented it. 14 years of importing millions of these fakers has drained our economy. They come here to get experience, skills, get trained, and send as much of our $ offshore as they can. Stop the lies and propaganda and stop the corporate welfare. Where is the EEOC on the takeover of silicon valley by Indians?

[Wakjob]

They're going back home because they've drained everything Americans created. America is becoming less and less attractive precisely because these people have been coming here for 14 years and not performing. America fires non-performing workers. These people have not been performing for the past 14 years. Time to send them home.

[Wakjob]

Companies ruined or almost ruined by imported Indian labor

Adaptec - Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired.
AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009)
AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot).
Apple - R&D CLOSED in India in 2006.
Australia's National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010).
Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall)
Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA)
Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S. by Indian national guest worker)
Caymas - Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech lead. Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America.
Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc.
Circuit City - Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter.
ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05 U.S. airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long int
Computer Associates - Former CEO Sanjay Kumar, an Indian national, sentenced to 12 years in federal prison for accounting fraud.
Deloitte - 2010 - this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution.
Dell - call center (closed in India)
Delta call centers (closed in India)
Fannie Mae - Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out. Indian logic bomb creator found guilty and sent to prison.
Goldman Sachs - Kunil Shah, VP & Managing Director - GS had to be bailed out by US taxpayers for $550 BILLION.
GM - Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years later
HP - Got out of the PC hardware business in 2011 and can't compete with Apple's tablets. HP was taken over by Indians and Chinese in 2001. So much for 'Asian' talent!
HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006)
Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned)
JetStar Airways computer failure brings down Christchurch airport on 9/17/11. JetStar is owned by Quantas - which is know to have outsourced to India, Inc.
Lehman (Jasjit Bhattal ruined the company. Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers)
Medicare - Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma & wife in the U.S.
Microsoft - Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs. Stock used to be $100. Today it's lucky to be over $25. Not to mention that Vista thing.
MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled)
MyNines - A startup founded and run by Indian national Apar Kothari went belly up after throwing millions of America's VC $ down the drain.
Nomura Securities - (In 2011 "struggling to compete on the world stage"). No wonder because Jasjit Bhattal formerly of failed Lehman ran it. See Lehman above.
PeopleSoft (Taken over by Indians in 2000, collapsed).
PepsiCo - Slides from #1 to #3 during Indian CEO Indra Nooyi' watch.
Polycom - Former senior executive Sunil Bhalla charged with insider trading.
Qantas - See AirBus above
Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired, lost 60% of its customers to Adobe because Indian-written QuarkExpress 6 was a failure)
Rolls Royce (Sent aircraft engine work to India in 2006, engines delayed for Boeing 787, and failed on at least 2 Quantas planes in 2010, cost Rolls $500m).
SAP - Same as Deloitte above in 2010.
Singapore airlines (IT functions taken over in 2009 by TCS, website trashed in August, 2011)
Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired)
State of Indiana $867 million FAILED IBM project, IBM being sued
State of Texas failed IBM project.
Sun Micro (Taken over by Indian and Chinese workers in 2001, collapsed, had to be sold off to Oracle).
UK's NHS outsourced numerous jobs including health records to India in mid-2000 resulting in $26 billion over budget.
Union Bank of California - Cancelled Finacle project run by India's InfoSys in 2011.
United - call center (closed in India)
Victorian Order of Nurses, Canada (Payroll system screwed up by SAP/IBM in mid-2011)
Virgin Atlantic (software written in India caused cloud IT failure)
World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data).

I could post the whole list here but I don't want to crash any servers.

[Wakjob]

Google "Asia's rampant cheating problem"

[Wakjob]

if America needs a "supply" of these foreign workers then how did America get by with IT being 98% white American males from 1978-1998? Americans inevnted IT. These other countries sat around doing nothing for those 2 decades. Choking off what supply? A supply of people with fake degrees and stolen resumes who come here to get trained and export our wealth through remittances? YEAH we REALLY need more people like THAT!