Was at a Tea Party When a Birther Rally Broke Out


Former Reasoner David Weigel is covering the Nashville Tea Party convention for the Washington Independent and reports on this argument between World Net Daily's Joseph Farah and Big Hollywood/Government/Journalism's Andrew Breitbart over Farah's speech, which went long on discussions of Obama's birth certificate:

During WorldNetDaily Editor-in-Chief Joseph Farah's Friday night dinner speech, which spent around 10 of its forty minutes on questions about Barack Obama's citizenship, Andrew Brietbart was among the conservatives in back of the room grumbling audibly about what he was hearing. After he introduced the evening's closing entertainment — a film titled "Generation Zero" — Breitbart walked outside to the convention hall. There, I heard Breitbart criticizing Farah, and briefly talked to him about it before I noticed that WorldNetDaily's Chelsea Schilling was already talking to him, holding up a voice recorder. I backed up to allow her to continue her interview, which consisted of questions on why Breitbart didn't think Obama's citizenship was a legitimate issue.

"It's self-indulgent, it's narcissistic, it's a losing issue," Breitbart told Schilling. "It's a losing situation. If you don't have the frigging evidence — raising the question? You can do that to Republicans all day long. You have to disprove that you're a racist! Forcing them to disprove something is a nightmare."

"Wouldn't you say," asked Schilling, "in this case, that Farah is asking Obama to prove something rather than his disprove it?"

Breitbart rejected the premise. "When has a president ever been asked to prove his citizenship?"

After a few minutes Breitbart ended the conversation and Schilling started interviewing Tea Partiers about the speech, finding a little less skepticism. (I found some Tea Partiers, like Rita Grace of Virginia, who said they didn't appreciate Farah's speech.) I spotted Farah and asked him if his speech had been approved by Tea Party Nation.

"They asked me to speak," said Farah. "They didn't ask me, 'What do you want to speak about?' No, this operates like a free and open society, not like the kind of Marxist society you would apparently like to be a journalist for."

Read the whole thing here.

Though I would like to know what Joseph Kennedy listed as his occupation on Jack Kennedy's birth certificate, I do find the birthers (like the "after birthers" who continue to sniff around for Trig Palin's placenta) to be a couple of bricks shy of a full deck of a bag of hammers.

I don't know what the scene is like in Nashville, but I do know that I didn't hear any birther weirdness at the 9/12 demonstration held last September in Washington, DC. Rather, it was pretty conventional stuff: People pissed at a government that made Mary Todd Lincoln and Nancy Reagan (or even budget-buster Ronald Reagan) look thrifty.

A reminder that PJTV is streaming live from Nashville, including Sarah Palin's speech in an hour or so.

NEXT: Video: Nick Gillespie Debates Citizens United & Campaign Finance with Larry Lessig on Bill Moyers Journal

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  1. Tea Partiers are to conservatism as blue druids are to libertarianism.

    1. The Mainstream?

    2. Night Elf druids? Why can’t they be libertarian?

      1. Because they’re dirty fucking hippies, that’s why.

  2. If the birth certificate is off limits, what substantive topic remains? Obama’s armor is impregnable!

    1. Once you exclude positions that the GOP itself advocated during Bush’s reign, there really isn’t much to attack Obama with.

      1. The Tea Party thing started as outrage over TARP.

        1. Which the GOP advocated during Bush.

          1. Is there an echo in here?

            WTF did I just say?

            TARP was wildly unpopular with the conservative “Republican base” and it’s strongest opponent in elected office,Richard Shelby is slammed by Nick Gillespie a few posts below for “holding up Obama’s bureaucrat appointments”.

          2. If I remember correctly, most House Republicans voted against TARP 1 and they overwhelmingly voted against TARP 2 (over 80% opposed).

            1. Hey, don’t go getting the water all muddy.

            2. Where were these fiscal conservatives when NCLB and Medicare Prescription Drug Act were passed?

              Voting aye.

      2. I don’t know that the birthers win there either. Bush never proved his citizenship, as far as I can recall.

        1. Another funny post. Who wrote it for you?

          1. The ironic thing is that Obama’s chief opponent, John McCain, definitely wasn’t born in the US, but none of the Birthers take note of that.

            1. Not to indulge them, but the difference is that McCain’s parents were both natural born American citizens making McCain natural born by one common interpretation of “Natural Born Citizen.” They would argue that since Obama’s father was not, that would mean Obama wouldn’t qualify if he wasn’t born here.

              Of course my opinion is:

              a) who gives a shit?
              b) it sure seems like if he wasn’t born in Hawaii, they’ve done a spectacular job of making it look that way.

              1. Planting those birth announcements in the newspaper,at the time of his birth,may be the most clever trick the conspiracists have ever pulled off.If’n the commies had been half that clever in Robert Welch’s day we’d all be living in some kind of authoritarian collectivist/socialist society.

                1. There is another explanation, though: birth announcements planted in the newspaper by the mother or grandparents in anticipation of an international custody battle. I’m not saying I believe it, but it’s kinda-sorta plausible.

                  But the whole topic is pretty thin gruel as conspiracies go. I’d much rather see Obama’s college records.

                  1. Oh please. International custody battle? They were not people of money on either side and courts favored the mother almost 100% of the time in the 60’s

                    1. Like I said, I don’t necessarily buy it, but it makes more sense than “just in case he’s President in 35 years.”

                    2. Come on, “just in case he’s President in 35 years.” Yes, because 35 years ago we thought a black man could be President. Where did you live 35 years ago?

                    3. You are missing my point. I agree that “just in case he’s President” would have been absurd.

                    4. Why don’t we agree neither premise makes any sense then?

                    5. Well, no. IMHO, one premise makes no sense, the other makes a tiny bit (but not enough to be convincing).

              2. I don’t recall John McCain’s parents producing their birth certificates.

            2. That’s because they mostly hate McCain too much to give a fuck.Had he been elected instead we’d be hearing about it all the time from the moonbat left and a small subset of the same people charging Obama.

            3. There’s a ton of McCain stuff out there. You should learn to use Google. The definition that matters is “born in the country, two citizen parents”. McCain was born outside of the US, Obama had a foreign father. Neither one is natural born. In ’61 a family member could mail in a form claiming an at home birth and receive a Hawaiian BC. The registrar would then send that information to the paper. There are legitimate legal questions here.

              1. Name one

                1. What’s the definition of “natural born citizen”?

                  1. Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

                    1. and military bases are considered part of the United States Territory

                    2. That passage is from the 14th Amendment, not Article II which deals with Presidential qualifications. Also, it doesn’t say “United States territory”, it says “United States”. Since the PCZ was not part of a State, McCain was not born in the United States.

                    3. Tulpa, you are considered American born when your parent/parents are on foreign soil in the commission of their duty as American service personnel abroad. Have you ever noticed that when the US military is on foreign soil they put up an American flag? It isn’t for decorative purposes. You are also on American soil when you visit an American embassy in any foreign country. The only further exception is when a country cedes their foreign soil to another country for political purposes as in the case of Princess Margriet of the Netherlands, born on January 1943 in Ottawa’s Civic Hospital, Canada.

                    4. or in the case of the US ceding the PCZ for political reasons, to a country which shortly thereafter would engage in hostilities against US forces.

                    5. As Tulpa points out the 14th does not contain the words “natural born”. It’s a myth that overseas military bases, embassies and consulates are US territory. The US just rents the land from the host country which retains sovereignty. Just like foreign embassies in the US are still US land.

                    6. The 14th Amendment deals, among other things, with what constitutes citizenship, hence amends Article II.

                    7. It doesn’t deal with the meaning of “natural born”, which is the question here. From the 14th’s POV, a naturalized and a native citizen are the same thing.

                    8. In fact, the place where McCain was born is now part of a foreign country — indeed, a foreign country that was engaged in hostilities with the US less than 20 years before the 2008 election. Talk about a divided loyalty.

                    9. I still haven’t seen the birth certificates of John McCain’s parents. What is McCain hiding?

        2. If we ever get the records opened, it’s a fair bet just about everyone ever elected President will have proof of citizenship by birth, including Bush 43 (born in Connecticut, of all places!) and his father and Clinton and just about everybody we’ve had so far.

          The one birth certificate we have no reason to be sure of is that of the 0bamination that causes Desolation, which he’s spent huge sums of money on lawyers to block from being released so far. Every case seeking its release has been dismissed the grounds that the plaintiff “lacks standing” to see it. I guess the judges agree that little pipsqueaks like you have no right to see His Imperial Majesty’s proof that he actually is Constitutionally eligible for the position if you ever have any doubts.

          Judging by the stupid comments from some of the rest of you whacko loserdopians on here, I take it you agree with the judges that you taxpaying suckers are all little serfs who have no right to check your highest-paid employee’s birth certificate to see whether he’s eligible to work for you because actually he’s your boss and your Emperor and your god now.

          1. STFU, Lonewacko.

            1. Lonewacko? Lonewacko’s back? No!

              1. Nah, can’t be LW…no gratuitous link to his own blog, no suggestion of videotaping citizens asking “tough questions”….

    2. Prove you’re not an alien zombie Nazi.

      1. You see, these two sticks I’m banging together, they keep elephants from attacking our city. That’s why I’m banging them together.

        Whaddaya mean they don’t? You don’t see any elephants around here, do you? That’s because my sticks are working. Let’s see you prove they’re not, wiseguy!

      2. If I were an alien zombie Nazi, you’d already be dead and I’d be violating your nostrils.

  3. to be a couple of bricks shy of a full deck of a bag of hammers

    Trying to steal Tim’s mixed metaphor crown, Nick? You’re going to have to try harder than that.

    not like the kind of Marxist society you would apparently like to be a journalist for

    Comedy gold. You sure Weigel didn’t embellish this a little? It’s too perfect.

    1. And if the Pope shit in the woods he’d be a bicycle.

      1. “If we can hit that bullseye, then the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards…checkmate.”

        1. That’s wonderful. I think it needs to be my FB status…now.

          1. Do I have a big smile on my face? Oh, I’ll never kiss and tell…but I pounded that ape. Twice. Bow down to the king of ape sex!

            1. But don’t bow down too far.

    2. The Gov’t posted a $1.6 Trillion deficit — about 40% of which was borrowed money.

      In light of the above, What does it matter where Obama born?

      Perspective, Gentlemen, perspective.

      1. And don’t forget the quantitative easing by the Fed, and its effects on monetary inflation.

      2. Isn’t 100% of a deficit ‘borrowed money’?

        1. Yeah, you’re right. My poor phrasing.

          The gov’t budget is $3.8 Trillion dollars — 40% of which is the “borrowed money” known as the deficit.

          This is a much bigger problem than where President Obama was born.

          1. Hawaiians don’t have any of the national debt burden? How did he exempt them?

  4. Big tents are nice, but they come with headaches.

    1. Purges are sometimes necessary (if not nice), and ditto the ensuing headaches. The “leaders” of this nascent “movement,” if there are any and if it really is one, need to refute the loonies and be quick about it. And if the “leaders” are the loonies, the “movement” is doomed.

      1. I don’t think the leaders are the loonies of this movement. Thankfully it’s not the leaders bringing anti-gay, racist signs to protests. And I certainly wouldn’t call Plumber Guy a leader in any sense. The problem with the leaders though, is that they may be incompetent and unable to harness the energy and anger of this movement.

        1. They won’t harness anything without sound political/economic philosophy. That old and maligned shark will have been suitably jumped when Jesus shows up at the party and refuses to leave.

      2. refute the loonies and be quick about it

        Breitbart was pretty quick about it.Did you want him to make like Pete Seeger at Newport and pull the plug while Farah was still onstage?

        1. Pete Seeger at Newport and pull the plug

          It just might take an ax.

  5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyoCRC-oT0A
    part 1 of his speech, which gets roaring applause from the audience for a lot of what he says

    1. Then again, it may be the people of the movement itself that’s fucking retarded. Or just the ones who bought tickets to this convention.

      1. So, how do those balls in your mouth taste, zoltan?

        1. A little musty–what was this a response to? You think it’s indicative of the audience’s great intelligence that they are applauding the “birther” position. I think such people are morons. Do you not agree? What do these balls in my mouth have to do with anything?

          1. I think it’s indicative of your own idiocy that you can brand a whole movement “retarded” for some of its more vocal members holding one belief you think is stupid just because it’s not popular with some of the more vocal portions of our leftstream media.

            If you don’t know what those balls in your mouth have to do with anything, you might want to check with your fellow Tea Party haters on PMSNBC and CNN on what they’re calling Tea Party participants these days.

            Just don’t let yourself get too physically close to Olbermann. Word has it he’s gone foaming rabid from the possibly imminent cancellation of his show and he’ll bite the head off anyone who asks him about anything that makes him mad; and almost anything does.

            1. How do Palin’s balls taste, Dunker?

            2. OMG NOWAI he called it “PMSNBC”. You see what he did there? That’s so funny … lol. The tea-party is basically the civil war reinactment society with northern appeal. It’s full of moronic, racist, theocratic fuck tards who think Sarah Palin is a goddam philosopher queen.

              What’s that? I’m an elitist? Damn straight scrub. I am better than you.

      2. Well at least they’re not batshit insane muttering “a corporation is not a person” all over the place.

        1. I don’t know….I’d say it comes pretty darn close….

        2. Loonies: Corporations are not people.

          Loonies: Obama has a fake birth certificate.

          Both of these types of people are BATSHIT INSANE.

          1. Yeah but the first ones are running things right now.

            1. It doesn’t matter who is running right now, the point is both are lunatics and should be ignored! Everyone should have just got up and left the moment Joe Farah took the stage.

            2. The devil you know….

          2. And the horrible thing that’s going to happen if we finally get to see 0bama’s long form is…?

            We’ve already seen what horrible things happen when corporations are muzzled as they were during the last few elections.

            What, you think the 0ne’s long form has cross-sections of his colon on it or something? Some of us saw stuff like that on TV back in Reagan’s day, and as far as I know, nobody died of disgust.

          3. Er, if you think corporations are people, you are the loonie.

            1. No one said they are. That’s why endlessly repeating they aren’t is a sign of insanity.

            2. So you deny that they can breed and have offspring. Where do you think subsidiaries come from, smart guy?

              They have been voting for years, they even use proxies.

              And those bond holders have super powers. They can call bonds on their own and demand anything they want!

              If you don’t believe me just ask any fine arts student or union member about the Chinese.

  6. The Birther controversy has jumped the shark on a bag full of hammers. It is so 2009.

    1. For people who constantly mix their metaphors without realizing it:

      Bite them.

  7. You know who else got roaring applause from his audiences, don’t you?

    That’s right.

    Milton Berle.

    1. If we could upvote comments around here I would upvote this about twenty times.

    2. We’re the Hekawi!

  8. “That guy is a couple of anvils short of a chorus.”

  9. Fucking World Nut Daily. Ugh.

    1. Nut-sucking lefturd commentators. Ugh.

      1. Corporations are not people!!

        HURR DURR

        World Nut Daily is a fucking loony bin. This does not conflict with my libertarian political beliefs.

      2. Corporations are not people!!

        HURR DURR

        World Nut Daily is a fucking loony bin. This does not conflict with my libertarian political beliefs.

        1. Sockpuppeteering World Nut Daily types. :::sigh:::

    2. WND readers make Alex Jones followers sound calm and rational.

      1. that’s a low blow

  10. So that about wraps it up for this round of fiscal conservatism.

    Fusion has been the death of libertarianism. Libertarians need to pitch a smaller tent. No assholes allowed.

    1. Warren, do you pitch a small tent? It’s OK, the girls will still like you.

    2. Small tents are more conducive to loonies than big ones. There were 9/11 Truthers in both the Ron Paul campaign and the Obama campaign — guess which one they were noticeable in?

      1. Do you mean noticeable to rational people, such as ourselves, or noticeable to the media, which had a bit of a boner for Obama and anger-bang for Paul.

        1. Regardless of who got the hard-on for whom, and why, the only way this “movement” will succeed is if they stick to a single critical issue: the growth of government and its ruinous spending and debt. If and when they lose focus and overstep into broad social issues, they’ll become just another pointless, incoherent, self-contradictory mob.

              1. Fuck off and die, Lonewacko.

          1. No! I want giant puppets like the left has!

            1. They do create some interesting costumes.

        2. I was literally surrounded by Obama supporters at work back during the 2008 primaries. I didn’t notice any Truther activity among them.

          Then I went to my local Ron Paul meetup, and half those present were talking about last night’s Alex Jones show, in which he talked about being harrassed by Federal agents at a bar. They also opined that Ron Paul denied the government was responsible for 9/11 on the previous night’s Glen Beck show because he was saying what people wanted to hear — that he really was one of them deep down.

          1. Yup, my experiences match yours. The best thing to do is treat the trufers and birfers like fucking retards. Don’t even bother laughing at them. Just slowly back away, and start your own meetup where you can ban them.

    3. I have a pup tent you can use. And I know the perfect intersection for you to pitch it in. That should take care of your asshole problem for you.

  11. Did anyone believe that this convention was going to be anything more than this? Having their headlining speaker Sarah Palin not say something so fucking retarded that it puts her in the news cycle is probably the best case scenerio these people could hope for. Otherwise, I think this is when most the Tea Partiers start to think everyone else in the room is the crazy one and they start to lose interest in the movement. I expect a lot of “yeah, spending is outta hand! Wait, you want to cut that from the budget?! You’re fucking insane!”

    1. The problem is a large part of the Tea Party movement are not libertarians. Many are not even necessarily small government lovers.

      1. You know: Morons.

      2. The problem is a large part of the Tea Party movement are not libertarians.

        No but nearly all are for reining in government power.I bet they are all opposed to the bailouts.

        1. SIV, almost everyone whether they are democrats, liberals, socialists, progressives, conservatives, libertarians, indepedents, are against the bailouts. Just because someone is against the bailout doesn’t mean we have to align with them.

          1. You left out republicans.

            Who supports the bailouts? Elected Democrats, elected Republicans,the MSMedia,rent-seeking corporations,Wall Street bankers,bureaucrats,centrist voters,boot-lickers. The opposition from the left was mostly about who was being bailed out anyways but I’ll take align with them too if they want to get nostalgic and “smash the state”.

  12. Like Nick said on the State Controlled Network last night: “More speech is better speech”. Farah spouts off some irrelevant fringe nonsense and Breitbart calls him out on it,plenty of speech for all! I did enjoy Farah (in a rare moment of truthful to-the-point clarity) calling David Weigel out as a socialist journalist.

    1. Very well put on all points. I have thisone as the thread winner – thanks, SIV!

    2. State controlled? That’s why PBS news programming always towed the conservative lion when Bush was in office, right.

      The sad thing is that they’re evincing less of a liberal bias these days than the networks that don’t depend directly on the govt for operating funds.

      1. State controlled?


  13. Sigh, if only gatherings of Libertarians got one tenth as much coverage as this Nashville shindig, then I could believe that advocating gay marriage, drug legalisation and legalised prostitution were anything but the ramblings of the loony fringe by those of us who think of ourselves as enlightened and above the riff-raff.

  14. Screw you, Farah. It’s idiots like you that marginalize fiscal conservatism, since people are able to point at you and say “Hey! Look! This is what fiscal conservatives believe! They’re such idiots!” and marginalize them.

    Mind you, the media would find a different reason to marginalize fiscal conservatives. But you don’t have to make it so damn easy.

    I may de-register to vote, if I can do such a thing. I give up.

    1. Well then the entire left should be thoroughly discredited as a bunch of whack jobs.They’re all outraged that we haven’t repealed the 1st Amendment and jailed the Supreme Court while mumbling, schizophrenically-sounding about how “a corporation is not a person”.

      1. Ugh, you’re doing that thing the Democrats do when I criticize Obama’s spending. “But Bush did it too!!!”

        Okay, yes, we are talking about Obama though.

    2. It’s bigots like you that marginalize yourselves with your obsessions with smoking dope, banging prostitutes, and making up positive rights for oppressive perverts. Our country sure doesn’t need self-righteously immoral fools like you imposing your sick beliefs on the rest of us.

      1. I oppose positive rights,especially for closet-case homos like you. Can’t take your kids into a damn public restroom anymore. Yeah, you get on a libertarian blog’s comments and it’s all “Faggot,Perverts,Immoral” but when I’m just trying to take a peaceful leak you are looking at my junk through a hole you drilled in the stall.

        1. Sigh. If only a libertarian could response to attacks on the gay community without accusing the attacker of being a closet gay.

          1. I was *hoping* the initial post was sarcasm….

        2. this is a joke right?

    3. Why would you de-register to vote? That’s stupid. Either don’t vote or vote for a Libertarian.

      1. To avoid jury duty.

        Next question.

        1. You are called through the DMV.

  15. I see our old buddy LoneWacko is carrying on in the comments of Weigel’s article. Nice to see Chris Kelly is still a loon.

    And I wish I could find the numbers he once accidentally posted here that were deleted at his request by the Reason staff. I also wish I could remember why and when that was such an issue.

    1. Dondero also made an appearance, if joe shows up we’ll have the unholy trinity of troll.

      1. It would be cool if they all haunted Weigel wherever he goes.

        1. That’d be the unfortunate consequences of writing an article…in the Twilight Zone.

      2. Just because someone disagrees with you and posts a lot does not make them a troll. All three of those guys were real people (whose real names are known, I might add) who were posting in accordance with their sincere beliefs.

        1. Trolls:

          In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]

          lonewhacko so rarely commented on anything related to the original post it was quite remarkable when he did. His off topic comments consisted of link whoring to his own site.

          joe’s entire commenting career was based on falsely attributing views and statements to other commenters so he could argue with himself by proxy.

          Dondero’s heyday predates my participation here but he did comment off topic declaring various neocons,rinos and establishment republicans to be “libertarian” or “libertarian leaning”.

          1. The “intent” part of the definition fails here. There’s no evidence that Lonewacko, joe, or Dondero had any intention in their posting here besides expressing their sincere opinions. Again, just because someone disagrees with you in an annoying way doesn’t make them a troll. They have to be intending to piss you off.

  16. A friend who went to a local Tea Party meeting says the local chairman or president made a speech at the start of the meeting where he expressed anger at the Democrats’ health reform plans, possible cap-and-trade legislation and balloning federal spending. But he seemed most angry that he didn’t get a Social Security cost of living increase this year.

    1. The codger thinks “as long as they’re throwing all that money around”.The out-of-work want wasteful spending on unemployment checks and job creation.

      1. Well, look at it this way: so far government has been throwing money around in seemingly random directions that are difficult to track. Where’s all that 700 billion from the last bailout going? As we keep hearing when we ask that, “Uh, that’s a pretty good question, actually.” No one seems to be able to account for it all.

        Now if the government would just cut everyone a check for so much money and mail it out to each of us, that would be the same colossal waste of money as before, but at least we’d know where it’s going. Also, since that’s our money, what many of us would be getting would basically be just a refund of what’s rightfully ours in the first place. It sure beats giving it to some unspecified retard in some fanciful Congressional District 00 so he can do something unspecified with it.

  17. That was then, this now–they’ve been co-opted all around.

    You guys no problem eviscerating goofy leftist romanticism over various “movements”, e.g. environmentalism.

    This is the same shit. Whatever was organic and authentic about the Tea Partiers is gone or rapidly going. They will be the nut wing of the Republican Party, period.

    1. Co-opted, nothing. The Tea Parties have no official leadership; this you ought to consider a good thing. It’s the kind of movement described in “Here Comes Everybody” which detailed the internet’s effect on society. Like the internet, the Tea Parties have a fairly representative slice of humanity in them, good, bad, indifferent, and crazy. That’s the nature of being “authentic” and “organic” to use your granola-munching pseudo-intellectual hippie academic terms: people’s oddities are on display right next to the qualities you admire so much.

      If anything, it’s the GOP that’s being co-opted. They’ll get back into power again as they’re hoping, yes, but it’ll be a rather different “they” we’ll be seeing this time. Some of the old leadership are trembling over their primaries, and they should be. At this time next year, you’ll be seeing a lot of maverick Brown types sitting in the seats of former incumbent Democrats and no small number of Republicans as well.

      It won’t be huge improvement, but it will be an improvement nonetheless. You libertarians keep forgetting how representative government really is of the people voting for it; their failings included.

      1. “a maverick like brown”?
        Please. The only reason people voted for him was because they didn’t want Obamacare. Brown is hardly a maverick, he supports the failed MA health plan for one…

      2. You live in a fantasy land.

    2. The nut wing of the DemocRAT Party managed to get a communist, Kenyan national, secret-Muslim atheist elected president.Don’t discount the power of nutwings.

      1. Not much “secret” about anything, including that Muslim part. People just weren’t listening when we pointed out his crazy and treasonous pals Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright along with all his working from Saul Alinsky’s Marxist playbook.

        He’s more like a New Ager than any kind of solid Muslim or Christian, though. Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its pothead.

        1. Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its pothead.

          You’re saying he’s a libertarians???

          1. No, no, no….he’s one of those “I know I did it, and it’s a good thing I didn’t go to jail, otherwise I wouldn’t be where I am now, but if you do it, you should go to jail, you filthy addict!”-types.

            Not libertarian at all.

  18. I still don’t understand social security or medicare. why should old people get free shit? if anything, young people should get free shit because they are more productive for society. old people just watch maaaatlooooock all day

    1. Uh, because they’ve been paying into it for all their working lives and now it’s time for the government to keep all those splendid promises it’s been making since the thirties?

      1. So clearly we need to establish a cap. For example, if you were born after 1980, you should not expect any help at all.

        If you were born after 1950, you should expect means-testing from now on.

      2. Social Security has never been a guaranteed retirement fund. The powers that were, are, and ever shall be amen, have just allowed you to form that misperception.

  19. I can’t understand how Farah would see the Birther issue as anything but political poison based on the Democrats experience in the 2004 election trying to make an issue of Bush’s military service.

    1. The left still makes hay out of that one even though Bush had the military release his records. Is that your point?

      1. Yes, because not only was there no ‘there’ there, Bush got re-elected. It was not a winning strategy.

        1. Pretty much what I thought. Thanks for clarifying.

  20. Be quiet you fucking loons… Stache is on. 7p eastern.

    1. STFU, Capitol Lunatic.

      1. I don’t post around here much but I have been around a while, but I think having a moonbat make fun of my handle and call me a “loserdopian” means I finally get my decoder ring!

        Sweet, thank you Mr. Moonbat.

        1. Then you must love someone else knowing about your other handles and using them.

          1. Who’d want to use some “loserdopian’s” handle, and who would care?

  21. Oh yeah, where’s the Stache thread, “things are getting better” is the name of the show, pretty good so far.

  22. I really don’t think we want to make a habit of challenging politicians on the constitutionality of the things they’re doing.

  23. I don’t get it. Obama refuses to produce his original birth certificate, and the entire establishment, left, right & liberterian, circle the wagons and shout “SHUT UP!!!!!” Why?

    1. ummm.. Maybe because he produced it but loonies move the goal post no matter what their pet conspiracy theory is. Now go watch Stossel and learn something.

      1. He produced a piece-of-shit short form and idiots like you lapped it up and have been flashing that at people ever since as if it meant something.

        McCain produced the real thing (his long form) when asked, but you loserdopians never were intelligent enough to know the difference. You’re the loonies who kept telling us “Short is long and black is white and our Messiah won and shut up, you raaacist!”

        1. It’s too bad that William Buckley is around anymore so that he can do to you what he did to the Birch Society.

            1. You mean, kick out all the batshit insane conspiracy theorists like Ron Paul, Patrick Buchanan, and Lew Rockwell? Feel free to do that to any of them at any time, all you Buckley wannabes. I never liked those nutjobs anyway.

              1. This is what happens whenever the question is raised. It is simply shouted down. Most of Obama’s records are hidden for some reason.

                1. Maybe it is because, even though someone may share your political views, they don’t want to be associated with tin foil hattery.

    2. This news just in.


      Oh, wait, that’s not news, anyone with a brain has known this for months since the Registrar of Births in Hawaii verified that the Obama WAS born in Hawaii and the “short form” that’s been on the web for a couple of years is an accurate copy of the BC that would have been issued to him.

      No President has ever “proved” his citizenship. It’s always been declared in affidavits in the filing documents submitted in each state.

      If you can prove BHO is not a citizen then you can get him and most of his campaign officials convicted on perjury charges in all FIFTYSEVEN states.

      1. But Obama didn’t release the long form, did he?

        1. Oh yes he did. And I loved it.

          1. … and then I cut his nuts off and added them to my collection.

            1. new earrings?

              1. Nah – chocolate drops.

                1. Wild guess? IT

              2. Salty balls.

      2. Yes, they don’t routinely issue long forms but those records are on file and available. Actually, what Fukino said was that she had seen “the original vital records on file”. In ’61 a family member could mail in a form attesting to an at home birth and be issued a birth certificate. So that really didn’t clear things up. Also as far as I know Fukino doesn’t have the authority to determine who is and isn’t an NBC. That belongs to the Supreme Court.

        1. Actually, what Fukino said was that she had seen “the original vital records on file”. In ’61 a family member could mail in a form attesting to an at home birth and be issued a birth certificate. So that really didn’t clear things up.

          …which is why the birthers have descended into conspiracy theory.

          You’re behaving irrationally when you put more emphasis on what is theoretically possible than on the supporting evidence. This is the way conspiracy theories of all kinds work.

          There is no evidence to suggest that BO’s birth was in any way out of the ordinary, so that is the way that it should be regarded. What’s possible doesn’t matter, only what you can prove.

  24. Good point, maybe he isn’t thinking rationally.Any traction it had would have been exploited by Hillary, before the Dem convention, if there was something “there”.

    1. Fuck threaded comments

      This was supposed to be in response to koala ho’

    2. If she’d thought of it at the time, maybe she would have. The trouble with political scandals is that like all of 0bama’s promises, they have an expiration date. Also, you don’t look nearly as clever exploiting them when somebody else has already done so.

      As it is, if Hillary makes a primary run against him as some are speculating she may do in 2012, she may make an issue of it yet. Not during the campaign, you understand: one has to play these wild cards right to gain from them. However, if she gets into office, opening up every embarrassing detail of her predecessor’s records might have some advantage in it for her.

      As noted recently, that’s why 0bama doesn’t want any of his school records released either: “Bush made Cs, 0bama probably failed lunch”.

      1. What president has ever “released” any of his school records?

        And what the fucking fuck would it prove if he did?

        Obama is a fuckup. That’s widely agreed on. And a whole bunch of the “best and brightest” braintrusters from Robert Macnamara to Larry Summers have been fuckups too.

        What difference does it make if they went to Harvard Law or Bumfuck Normal?

        1. Don’t get to serious about this thing, man. Like 9/11 truthers these people will never concede, even when confronted with all the evidence and reason in the world. So just have a little fun with them and move on. Mention foil hats and roswell, they hate that.

          1. And the ‘grassy knoll’….

  25. The 1960s called, they want their John Birch Society back.

    1. Agree. Reason has gotten increasingly hilarious since Obama took office.

  26. If the DNC and GOP can have their nuts I guess everyone else gets a few.

  27. “They asked me to speak,” said Farah. “They didn’t ask me, ‘What do you want to speak about?’ No, this operates like a free and open society, not like the kind of Marxist society you would apparently like to be a journalist for.”

    Just sounds like he is familiar with Weigel’s work. Move along. Nothing to see here.

    1. The Tea Party is a private (and for-profit!) event, and thus is totally free to ask people what they were going to talk about before letting them on stage. And you can bet that anyone who stated they supported Obama was not going to be allowed near a microphone.

      In addition, I seriously don’t get the Weigel-hate that spurts around this place every once in a while. Yes, he’s a liberal. But he always seems to give libertarians a fair hearing, and you can bet this coverage — where he seeks out a TeaPartier who disagrees with the Birthers — is going to be the fairest coverage of the TeaParty you’re likely to get from a liberal journalist.

  28. I laughed, I cried, it became part of me

    Seriously, SP made some legitimate criticisms about Obama and the big business/big government cronyism in Washington. But, she started her speech with terrorist fear mongering, and bullshit neo-con foreign policy. Maybe because her foreign policy briefings are coming from former Rummy adviser Randy Scheunemann.

    And exactly what is a “patriot”? I must have been absent that day at school. Is it someone who supports the Patriot Act?

  29. It may be a losing issue. But, that doesn’t make it not worth remembering.

    I don’t know what to believe. But I find it interesting that BHO44 and his minions have spent in excess of 2M$ to PREVENT any disclosure of his paper trail.

    I’d just like to know why?

    Like all the conspiracies that are proven true (i.e., FDR’s role in Pearl Harbor; Lusitania had arms on it; RFK; JFK), we’ll probably have to wait 50 or 75 years for the truth to come out.

    By then it will be too late, but … … we need the Truth!

    1. reinkefj|2.6.10 @ 11:10PM|#
      “It may be a losing issue. But, that doesn’t make it not worth remembering.
      I don’t know what to believe. But I find it interesting that BHO44 and his minions have spent in excess of 2M$ to PREVENT any disclosure of his paper trail.”
      No, I won’t bother asking for a cite; was that you on the grassy knoll?

      “I’d just like to know why?
      Like all the conspiracies that are proven true (i.e., FDR’s role in Pearl Harbor; Lusitania had arms on it; RFK; JFK), we’ll probably have to wait 50 or 75 years for the truth to come out.”
      No, I won’t bother asking for a cite; was that you on the grassy knoll?

      By then it will be too late, but … … we need the Truth!
      No, I won’t bother asking for a cite; was that you on the grassy knoll?

      1. Good call Ron L, it took less than an hour for an appearance of “The Grassy Knoll”.

  30. I can’t believe no one’s noted that this is Bush’s fault. Heavens no – not my fault! It’s Georgie’s fault – George W’s. Yes. Back to watching NASCAR on SPEED.

    1. It was a good race!

      1. Who won?

        1. A redneck won

        2. Danica came in 6th in the ARCA race, Bobby Gerhart won. Not sure on the later race.

  31. Wow that actually makes sense when you think about it.


    1. Curses! :::shakes fist at anonymity bot:::

    2. A troll kept a-posting all night ling.

      1. Where the hell where you?

    3. Congratulations Anonybot! You’re the most sensible poster on this thread. Tell ’em what they’ve won Johnny!

  32. A few inconvenient facts for those who dismiss assertions of Barack Obama, Jr.’s Constitutional ineligibility to the office of President:

    Fact: His father, Barack Obama, Sr., was a native of Kenya.

    Fact: Kenya was a British colony from 1920 until 1963.

    Fact: When Barack Obama, Jr., was born in 1961, the law in effect relevant to this issue was the British Nationality Act of 1948, which stated: “5.?(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.”

    Regardless of whether the United States recognized the British law in effect at the time of Barack Obama, Jr.’s, birth, Britain most certainly did, so Barack Obama, Jr., is most definitely a British citizen, which at best means that he was born with dual British and U.S. citizenship, whether he was born in Hawai’i as he has claimed, delivered by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in the Oval Office, or even at the very center of the sun.

    This is precisely the sort of divided loyalty that our Founding Fathers prohibited by inserting the requirement that, “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President,” into the Constitution.

    The bottom line is that the British law in effect at the time of Barack Obama, Jr.’s, birth stated that he inherited his father’s British citizenship.

    As a British citizen, Barack Obama, Jr., is therefore UNABLE to be considered a “natural born” U.S. citizen as per Article II, Section One, Clause Five, of the United States Constitution, and is INELIGIBLE to the office of President of the United States of America, which he is currently usurping in direct violation of that foundational legal document.

    Laws either mean what they say, or they mean nothing, and most think that the United States Constitution qualifies as one of those pesky laws which actually means what it says and should be adhered to.

    Since he is a former Constitutional law professor, Barack Obama, Jr., must understand this little technical glitch which threatens his narcissistic desire to be the most powerful person on Earth.

    That might explain his refusal to produce the same sort of documentation which John McCain has already freely and voluntarily produced for the U.S. Senate and media when *precisely* the same sort of questions were also raised about his Constiutional eligibility to the office of President during the 2008 election for same.

    I just expect that our Constitution is followed. Don’t you?

    Fidelity to it is vastly more important than the desires of any one person, even if a majority of We the People did commit the errors of buying into his empty “hope and change” rhetoric and voting for him.

    I defy *anyone* to refute any of the facts noted above or produce any information that the Founding Fathers thought that a “natural born citizen” meant a dual citizen, *especially* one with British citizenship. Wasn’t Britain the very same government that they were about to risk their lives, fortunes, and sacred honors fighting the War for Indepence against?

    1. If this is true, why didn’t the British just declare all the Founding Fathers were still British subjects. That way, our country wouldn’t have been able to make one of them President?.

      1. Those limeys are just petty enough to pull something like that.

        1. They’d do so with a stiff upper lip, too.

          1. “so Barack Obama, Jr., is most definitely a British citizen,”

            So basically hundreds of millions of people are British Citizens but don’t know it?

            1. Citizenship has a lot of tricky nuances to it and in those days he could have declared himself (with limited paperwork)a citizen of Kenya and perhaps British. The fact that he was born here does not interfere with those rights.

              1. I am amazed that Clinton didn’t try that to avoid the draft.

      2. I bet the Whiskey Rebellion folks are kicking themselves for not bringing this up.

        But actually, I believe one of the stipulations of the Treaty of Paris was that post-Revolution residents of the US were not to be treated as British subjects, to avoid prosecutions for treason and sedition in the event they set foot on British soil and the like.

        1. IF it was a stipulation of the ToP then the Brits went crazy violating it by impressing naturalized (and other) American sailors into the Royal Navy when encountered in international waters.

          I think they did not even recognize naturalized American citizens.

          1. Yes, during the War of 1812, they hanged several Irish-American soldiers captured on the battlefield for treason. IIRC the rule only applied to Americans living in the US at the time of the treaty signing in 1783.

            The impressment of American sailors was just blatantly illegal and the British knew it, but figured the Americans couldn’t do anything to stop them. Unfortunately, modern historians seem to have an interest in portraying the US as the aggressor in every conflict to which we’ve been a party, so the various ways in which the British failed to uphold their obligations in the peace treaty are glossed over.

            1. they hanged several Irish-American soldiers captured on the battlefield for treason

              I don’t hold that against the Brits.

              1. Don’t you have a dance to go to?

      3. Can’t you read? “or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President,”. They grandfathered themselves in moron.

    2. “Regardless of whether the United States recognized the British law in effect at the time of Barack Obama, Jr.’s, birth, Britain most certainly did…”

      Fact: in Saudi Arabia, if you marry but are are not a fundamentalist Muslim, you are automatically divorced against your will by unelected clerics. Regardless of whether you recognize this law, Saudi Arabia certainly does.

      Fact: in Saudi Arabia, adultery (such as banging the spouse from whom you’ve been automatically divorced) is a capital offense. Regardless of whether you recognize this law, Saudi Arabia certainly does.

      If you have a modicum of respect for law and order, you are now obligated to beat yourself to death with a rock.


    3. even at the very center of the sun

      No wonder he’s so hot!

    4. You argument is ridiculous on its face. You say that someone who holds dual citizenship can’t be an NBC because the drafters of the Constitution intended to bar such people from office because they would have “divided loyalty”. Accepting this as true (for the sake of argument), it doesn’t take into account that Obama did not “choose” to be a dual citizen, but would involuntarily have British citizenship as a result of foreign law. If this is enough to block someone from office, then some foreign country (Tongo let’s say), could pass a law stating that anyone with the internet handle “lonewacko” is a citizen – and you would be barred from office.

      Sounds real logical.

      1. I would be extremely surprised if he was a British Citizen

        1. Can’t be a Brit. He only uses region 1 DVDs.

      2. It doesn’t matter whether or not he chose to be a dual citizen it is a fact of his birth. Whether or not you are an NBC of a country is determined at only one time, the time of your birth. Once it has been determined it can never be changed forever and ever. The fact is people born to parents who hold different citizenships can never be an NBC of any country.

      3. How about a law that gives anyone with the handle 24ahead.com is given Mexican citizenship. That would be delicious irony.

        No you can’t click the link, its better that way.

    5. It’s fascinating to find out that the Constitution containing said Article defining Presidential eligibility was drafted and ratified PRIOR to the War for Independence and not in 1788 like we’re all led to believe.

      Those Founding Fathers sure were busy before the War.

  33. When you ask people from WorldNutDaily to give a speech, how can you be surprised when they bring up Birtherism?

  34. Farah is a shit-eating asshat who should be put out of our misery.



  35. What about that fucker George Washington? Was he natural-born?

    1. It is well documented that he was born in a lab. Nobody could be as accomplished as him and have been born naturally.

      1. As someone earlier in the thread asked, “how can you tell a Patriot?” Easy, they are wearing a tricorner hat. [Pirate Hat optional]

        Until Obama starts wearing a tricorner everywhere, I’ll assume he’s a dirty britisher.

    2. This song explains how fucking amazing George is.

    3. He was grandfathered in under Article 2, retard.

  36. It would be interesting to know how much (if any) overlap there is amongst the people currently in a tizzy regarding Barry’s citizenship status, and the people mooning dreamily about a potential President Schwarzenegger, eight or ten years ago.

  37. Uh-oh

    Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner said the U.S. is in no danger of losing its Aaa debt rating even though the Obama administration has predicted a $1.6 trillion budget deficit in 2010.

    1. That’s not hard to believe. After all we are going to try KSM in civilian courts and were guaranteed a victory. Chicago style politics.

      1. His people already explained that after KSM’s fair trial it matters not the outcome, he will never be freed and will probably be executed.

        I am surprised that you are the only person out there who has not heard the administration’s proclaimation of guilt about the slimeball.

        Every other potential juror has heard this advice from the Chicago crew and knows how to vote if selected for jury duty.

    2. We are truly fucked

    3. Chony will show up and say “no problem, we’ll raise your taxes, suck it up, no toys for you hurrr durrr hurr”

  38. Birthers,

    Keep bringing this up. It’s awesome. I am a natural born citizen, but you will never see my birth certificate b/c it’s too much fun watching you guys make my real opponents on the right look crazy by association. Meanwhile, I get to advance Green Fascism and the independents while pointing to those wacky tea-bagging birthers. Tea partiers, please welcome the birthers. They will make my job so much easier. Thanks.


    1. If you are telling the truth then your real father is not Barak Obama sr. So is it Malcolm X or Frank Davis?

  39. Birthers,

    Keep bringing this up. It’s awesome. I am a natural born citizen, but you will never see my birth certificate b/c it’s too much fun watching you guys make my real opponents on the right look crazy by association. Meanwhile, I get to advance Green Fascism and tell the independents to look at those wacky tea-bagging birthers. Tea partiers, please welcome the birthers. They will make my job so much easier. Thanks.


    1. How did that work out in Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts?

  40. Who the fuck cares what Nazi collaborator George Soros and his paid lackeys think about anythng?

    Dave Weigel can go to hell, and all the rest of them too.

    1. …and your little dog, too!

  41. Obama has never publicly shown any legal proof proving that

    1. Obama was born in the U.S.
    2. Obama is today a U.S. citizen and not an Indonesian citizen which he became in the 1960.

    Obama has never proven that he is eligible to be sitting as POTUS as per the Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5

    Clause 5: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.


    The COLB does not suffice because Obama himself states that his father was not a U.S. citizen.

    Why would he spend $2 million dollars in legal fees in preventing the birther lawsuits from every even getting to evidentiary stage?

    Obama is just flat out not qualified to be sitting as POTUS under the U.S. Constitution. Either because the man he claims was his father was not a U.S. citizen and/or because even today Obama is a citizen of Indonesia and not an American citizen.

    1. So you want Joe Biden as President?

      1. I want Ayn Rand as President. We have the technology. We can do this.

        1. I do not want to be President!!!!

      2. Actually if O were found not to be qualified, it would invalidate the election. However, since McCain was also not born in the US, that means that either Ralph Nader, who came in third in the 2008 election, would become president; or, considering Nader tied with everyone else for 0 in the electoral vote, it could be that Pelosi becomes president.

        1. No, SIV is correct. He’s out and Biden is in.

    2. 2. Obama is today a U.S. citizen and not an Indonesian citizen which he became in the 1960.

      Becoming a citizen of another country does not result in the loss of US citizenship unless the person intends to renounce citizenship by doing so. The whole gory tangle of laws on this subject is described here.

      And in any case, Obama was a minor at the time he gained Indonesian citizenship, so there is no way he would have lost his US citizenship even if he and his parents for him to lose it.

      1. birtherism is not my issue but as long as it is “on topic” I’m slightly curious about the implications of Obama’s declared and actual citizenship status as a college student.
        *spits out kool-aid *

        1. I thought I heard he got into Occidental with a foriegn student waiver of some kind. I think he’s a US citizen, but I also think he’d lie about it if it would benefit him.

    3. My dad was a Latvian citizen. Am I ineligible to be President?

      1. If he was naturalized before your birth, yes. If not, no.

        1. Regardless of my mother’s status?

  42. corr.

    Should say became in the sixties.

  43. The issue is not the Birthers, Palin, McCain, the President, or the Tea Party itself. The issue is the U.S. Constitution. The first paragraph of the United States Supreme Court’s website makes the following promise to the American People – “As the final arbiter of the law, the Court is charged with ensuring the American people the promise of equal justice under law and, thereby, also functions as guardian and interpreter of the Constitution.” To date, the United States Supreme Court has failed to do anything in furtherance of the search for the truth about Obama’s natural born citizen status. Furthermore, not one single solitary person or agency in the Executive, Legislative, or the rest of the Judicial branch of government has done anything other than accept Obama’s posted Certification of Live Birth as conclusive evidence of his alleged birthplace.

    Mr. Obama claims that he was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961. As his only evidence that he meets the Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution’s requirement that a President be a natural born citizen, he produced a scant summary document called a “Certification of Live Birth,” which he posted on his website under the title: “Barack Obama’s Official Birth Certificate.”

    At first blush, it is case closed. A closer examination of the facts, however, reveals that Mr. Obama failed to point out on his website that his posted “Official Birth Certificate,” as he called it, is actually a 2007 computer-generated, laser-printed scant summary document of his 1961 vital record(s) on file with the Hawaii State Department of Health. What we do not know, however, is what 1961 vital record the Certification of Live Birth is summarizing.

    In 1961 there were at least six different procedures available to obtain a vital record (birth certificate) that the Certification of Live Birth could be summarizing. Five of the six procedures lacked adequate indicia of reliability and trustworthiness because they were fraught with the potential for fraud. That said, an “official” state-issued document that summarizes a document that lacks adequate indicia of reliability and trustworthiness is not worth the paper it is printed on. Scans of the original Hawaii Revised Laws from that era can be found at http://birther.com.

    I’ll close this post with a quote: “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

    1. You know what is crazier than thinking Obama is not a US citizen? Having a website devoted to Obama not being a US citizen. I’ll book mark it for my I need a little crazy fix readings days.

      1. This controversy is NOT about citizenship it is about place of Birth. Arnold Schwarzenegger *is* a citizen – but he was not born in the United States. He could not legally serve as President of the United States. He is qualified in every other possible way.

      2. Isn’t the real deal citizen by birth? Non-naturalized, was born a US Citizen. Am I missing a detail?

      3. Given that Obama is the first President (I think) outside of the founding generation to have a father who was never a US citizen, it’s not crazy in principle, but at this point it is unhealthily obsessive.

        1. Actually, Chester A. Arthur’s father was also not a US citizen at the time of his birth. He became naturalized a decade or so later and Arthur did everything he could to obfuscate this fact.

        2. “Barry Goldwater, faced the issue. He was born in the Arizona territory in 1909, three years before it became a state”

          1. “1968 candidacy of George Romney, who was born in Mexico, but again was not tested. The former Connecticut politician Lowell P. Weicker Jr., born in Paris, sought a legal analysis when considering the presidency, an aide said, and was assured he was eligible. Franklin D. Roosevelt Jr. was once viewed as a potential successor to his father, but was seen by some as ineligible since he had been born on Campobello Island in Canada. The 21st president, Chester A. Arthur, whose birthplace is Vermont, was rumored to have actually been born in Canada, prompting some to question his eligibility”

    2. He also signed an affidavit in Arizona stating he met all the criteria to be POTUS.

  44. Wow, this makes really good sense to me dude. I like it.


  45. a citizen is a citizen, the difference between me and you is I justify my opinions with the facts and the law, whereas you don’t let the facts and the law get in the way of your reasoning.

    I don’t recall writing that Obama was not a citizen. My http://birther.com post addresses, among other issues, whether or not his posted Certification of Live Birth satisfied his burden of proof with respect to Article II’s eligibility requirements to be President. Tell me, which of the three major burdens of persuasions should apply to Obama – by a preponderance of the evidence, by clear and convincing evidence, or beyond a reasonable doubt?

    1. The same burden of persuasion that has applied to every previous president — ie, none.

    2. “I don’t recall writing that Obama was not a citizen.” Did you write he was? Are we playing games?
      “Tell me, which of the three major burdens of persuasions should apply to Obama” The major persuasion of reality. Complicit in placing a birth announcement? In 1961 a poor single mother of a mixed-race child would not have have the time, inclination or dare I say it audacity to even think her child could one day grow up to be President of the United States. This is the greatest country in the world.

    3. Can you produce evidence showing that Obama was naturalized as a citizen? If not, you are implying that he is not a citizen because if he was not a citizen by birth and was not naturalized, then he is an alien to the USA.

      To claim otherwise is disingenuous sophistry.

  46. How do you birther nuts explain the fact that his birth notice was reported in a Hawaiian newspaper at the time?

    1. I’ve yet to see birthers state the obvious implication, that the conspiracy runs so diabolically deep…

    2. Don’t let facts get in the way of their delusion.

      1. The birth announcement was not planted so Obama could run for president 47 years later. That is nothing but a ridiculous distraction from an alternative, more serious and plausible possible motive — the announcement was placed so Ann Dunham would have had documented evidence for immigration purposes should Barack’s birthplace ever be called into question by the INS when he was younger.

        The announcement could have also been automatically generated as a result of the issuance of any birth certificate from the six procedures available at the time.

        1. You’d think the Birth Certificate itself would solve the INS problem. Unless…

        2. The reality is that Obama would have been entitled to US citizenship because of his mother. His mother/any American would not have had this issue at the time.


            1. I do think he was born in the USA but want to be clear about the actual issue at hand.

              1. Pirs, I bet you keep your underwear folded with labels up too but your comment is just as irrelevant. The point of my reply was the idea of the mother falsifying his place of birth in order to guarantee Obama would not be in the crosshairs of the INS. I pointed out to the fact that he was entitled to citizenship.

            2. If citizenship is not the ukltimate question then what does it matter where he was born? The whole thing about being a natural citizen is an attempt to claim Obama is not eligible to be President. If he was born a US citizen, it does not matter one whit what was the specific location.

              1. You can apply for citizenship and receive full rights but never be allowed to become president. Think Arnold Schwarzenegger .

              2. “Born a citizen” is not the same as “natural born citizen”. People who are born citizens under the 14th amendment or the Immigration Act are not natural born citizens. They are “citizens by law”.

                1. That kind of parsing language is crazy.

          2. In’61 you had to be a US citizen for 5 years after the age of 14 to pass on citizenship. Ann Dunham was only 18 when she had Obama. Therefore she could not pass her citizenship to him.

        3. The announcement could have also been automatically generated as a result of the issuance of any birth certificate from the six procedures available at the time.

          NOTHING was automatically generated in 1960.

          1. No shit, the only thing automatically generated in 60’s was gossip about an unwed mother. All her friends and certainly the neighbors would have known about the pregnancy and most likely read the birth announcement.

    3. In ’61 a family member could mail in a form attesting to an at home birth and receive a Hawaiian BC. The state registrar would then send that information to the papers. So the papers are not reliable evidence.

      1. “The state registrar would then send that information to the papers.”

        That is what I was meant when I wrote “automatically generated.”

        1. forseti, don’t you think that neighbors and friends would have read the birth announcements? They also would have visited the new baby/brought food. Not one person has come forward to say they never saw a baby.

        2. I know. My comment was in reply to dbcooper.

  47. Burden of proof refers to both the burden of production and the burden of persuasion. Burden of production is the obligation to come forward with evidence to support a claim. The burden of persuasion is the obligation to persuade the trier of fact of the truth of a proposition.

    Tthe burden of proof rests on those who claim something exists. In any event, Obama admitted that he had the burden of production by posting his Certification of Live Birth on his website. The issue now is does the posted COLB persuade people that he was indeed born in Hawaii? You would need to pick one of the three burdens of persuasion and apply it to his posted Certification of Live Birth, which is merely a scant summary of his 1961 vital record(s), which was generated by one of six vital records registration procedures at the time, five of which lacked adequate indicia of reliability and trustworthiness and reliability because they were fraught with the potential for fraud.

    I tell you what I am going to do, the next time I apply for a job I am going to tell the prospective employer to prove that I don’t meet their job requirements. Afterwards, I will visit my girlfriend and tell her to prove that I don’t love her.

    1. The issue now is does the posted COLB persuade people that he was indeed born in Hawaii?

      Well, yes, for the vast majority of people, that and the certification by the state of Hawaii DOES persuade them. As you have only vague insinuations of what might have happened, as opposed to any actual proof of fraud, most of America is convinced that the COLB is sufficent and that you are some desperate wacko clutching at straws. As far as Tea Partiers admit any connection to such wackos it makes them look crazy too, which is why it would be better for the cause all around if you would STFU unless and until you have some actual evidence.

      1. It might be true that for the vast majority of people, …the certification by the state of Hawaii DOES persuade them, however, they drew that conclusion based upon the representation made on Obama’s and factcheck’s sites that the posted COLB was a copy of his original birth certificate. It was only a copy of a summary, and not a copy of his original 1961 vital record.

      2. The issue of the COLB doesn’t effect the issue of his foreign father.

  48. What it all comes down to for these birthers is the original document. I those days doctors were free to write comments on birth certificates. I always thought that there could me something of that nature on the original document.

    1. And the issue of his foreign father.

      1. Get over it IceTrey. He is our President and that is a fact. I was referring to the practice of a doctor writing medical comments on a birth certificate.

        1. I was referring to the first sentence of your comment. Yes he is the POTUS, for now. He’s also a usurper and is unconstitutional.

          1. Say it. He is my President…Now how hard was that?

            1. He is your President. How’s that?

              1. I am a resident here and not a citizen but I love this country

                1. btw, he is my president

  49. Obama was born in 1948 at Area 51 near Roswell, New Mexico. He’s the genetically modified offspring of a space alien father and a sasquatch mother.

    I don’t have all the details yet, but Hitler’s preserved brain somehow figures into all of this.

    1. I like the way you think, J Sub D.

      How’d ypu find out all those details, anyway?

      1. It’s a lie. His brain was burned in South America in the early 60s.

        In the early 80s, Mike Saunders found a different part of Hitler’s anatomy under a rock. I don’t know if that part still exists or not but as of the last report it was “on the move” to an unknown destination.

        1. Ewwwwwww!
          I was better off with Polanski

    2. I think you are confusing Barack with Michelle.

    3. I made it possible!

    4. You left out that the conception happened in nearby Ponchio Villa state park.

  50. How do you know you’re a citizen?

    I can’t prove I was born here or that my parents were citizens and I imagine that millions of others are in exactly the same boat. As an adoptee, all I’ve got is an embossed piece of paper, signed by a long dead doctor who worked in a building that was torn down decades ago for a hospital that no longer exists.

    1. It is not about you, it is about ensuring that the President meets the eligibility requirements to be President. The President of the United States is one of the three branches of government. He is the Executive branch. The nation speaks to all people through one voice, the President’s. The President can make treaties, grant pardons, sign and veto legislation, appoint a Cabinet, as well as Supreme Court Justices. In addition to these duties, the President knows the nation’s most important and secure secrets, and as the Commander in Chief of the military, has the military’s nuclear launch codes at the ready, and who can arguably, either take steps to weaken the nation, or even destroy it. In the words of Vice President Dick Cheney, “The president of the United States now for 50 years is followed at all times, 24 hours a day, by a military aide carrying a football that contains the nuclear codes that he would use and be authorized to use in the event of a nuclear attack on the United States. He could launch the kind of devastating attack the world has never seen. He doesn’t have to check with anybody. He doesn’t have to call the Congress. He doesn’t have to check with the courts. He has that authority because of the nature of the world we live in.”

      Given the importance of the job, and that the framers wanted to ensure that the President had undivided loyalty to the US, it follows then that the highest burden of proof should be required. A copy of a scant summary of a 1961 vital record that could be from something other than a hospital-issued, doctor-signed birth certificate doesn’t satisfy even the lowest burden of proof.

      1. A copy of a scant summary of a 1961 vital record that could be from something other than a hospital-issued, doctor-signed birth certificate doesn’t satisfy even the lowest burden of proof.

        You hear that Mr. Lincoln? You were a fraud!

        1. Careful there. This crowd has a pretty healthy contingent of folks who have a pretty low opinion of Honest Abe.

          And only a few of them are birthers.

          Though I suspect that the birther brigade has a pretty high percentage of Lincoln-haters in it.

    2. Then you can’t be POTUS. Tough luck.

      1. Wow.

        Tough crowd when a natural born citizen can’t be president because he hasn’t got the right papers.

        If only we had a system of internal passports and identity papers then we could be sure.

        1. Who says he’s aN NBC? His parents may have been foreigners for all we know. The Constituiton requires you to be an NBC. If you can’t prove you are then you’re shit out of luck. You also have to be 35 and have lived in the US for 14 years. If you can’t prove either one of those same story.

  51. I’m not a citizen but as a matter of interest I don’t have a birth certificate either. I managed to immigrate here with my baptismal certificate.

    1. America is for Baptists. You have nothing to worry about.

      1. John kennedy agrees with me

        1. Don’t you have a apostrophe quota to work on?

  52. We should be checking Obama’s medical records to see if his organs are in the right place. If not, he’s an alien, and I don’t mean from Kenya.

    1. I have it on good authority that Obama is testing artificial organs for SugarFree.

  53. Birthers = racist idiots. There, settled that.

    1. Much as I disagree with them, I don’t think most birthers are racist or idiots.

  54. Has anyone investigated to determine whether the birth was by caesarian section–and thus “unnatural”? That would make as much sense as the drivel being posted in these comments.

  55. For some reason this Ice Trey poster keeps referring to this doctrine expounded by some obscure Swiss philosopher as having some bearing on “natural born” citizenship. This doctrine has never been supported by any legislation nor in any court decision.

    A Natural Born Citizen is one who acquires citizenship as a consequence of their birth rather than having to be naturalized.

    This includes all persons born on US soil (except the children of certain foreign and diplomatic personnel) plus some persons born to Amercan citizens in foreign countries.

    The issue of Natural Born Citizenship is subject to legislation passed by the US Congress not the scribblings of obscure writers.

    Does anyone imagine that if there were the slightest case against Obama the Clinton or McCain machines would not have uncovered it.

    Well not maybe the McCainites, but the Clinton machine is fucking ruthless.

    1. “(except the children of certain foreign and diplomatic personnel)”

      should read:

      “(except the children of certain foreign and diplomatic [and consular] personnel)”

    2. 1. Vattel was not obscure he was well known in Europe and America. Franklin had several copies of hie treatise. So you are wrong on that.


      2.”A Natural Born Citizen is one who acquires citizenship as a consequence of their birth rather than having to be naturalized.” THIS doctrine has NEVER been supported by any legislation nor in any court decision. So it is just opinion.

      3. Clinton and McCain are part of the political machine that controls this country. They do what they are told. Plus McCain has his own issues with citizenship status since he was born outside of the US.

      Try again.

      1. IceTrey,”Clinton and McCain are part of the political machine that controls this country. They do what they are told.” No one tells Hillary what to do. That is one fact that her foes and friends are in perfect accordance.

      2. Ice Trey

        The only court case in which Vatton’s doctrine is discussed with respect to citizenship it is to specifically reject it as having any impact on citizenship law.

        1. First off the guys name is VATTEL. Second cite the case you’re talking about. Third while various cases have discussed the nature of “natural born” no case has ever dealt specifically and definitively with who is or isn’t a “natural born”. The question remains ambiguous at best.

          1. No, it’s self defining.

            A natural Born Citizen is one who gets citizenship by virtue of their birth.

            Perhaps no one has ever bothered to formally define it because they thought it was so blindingly fucking obvious.

            The court case is the one about the guy born in California with Chinese parents that all the NBCers were citing to bolster their case. I can’t be bothered to find the citation, you’re the fucking pricks who keep bringing it up. I’ve read it and it doesn’t say what you say it does.

            Your persistence in this foolishness is endearing but if you keep at it even I will start to wonder if the real reason you think BO has to prove he’s a citizen (unlike every president before, who just had to declare the fact) is the excess of melanin in his skin.

            1. You are a fucking retard. You make a statement in which you defend your definition and then say it has never been formally defined. I think the Framers never defined it because it was FUCKING OBVIOUS to them that it meant “born in the country too two citizen parents” just like it was defined in a book they had all read by Vattel. The word “natural” in natural born means ” requiring no law”. Well there are at least two ways one can be a citizen ny law, the 14th amendment and the Immigration Act. The evidence clearly more supports my assertion than your stupidity. Your ignorant definition is just what you THINK it is. BTW, the case you’re referring to is Wong Kim Ark. In it the court says that Wong is MERELY a citizen it NEVER says he is an NBC. Try doing some fucking research before you spout out your ignorant foolishness. Lastly I never said Obama was not a citizen I said he was not an NBC a difference which your small mind can’t seem to grasp. Of course I see you resort to the last gasp of the moron and call me a racist, well FUCK YOU!

              1. If someone is not a natural born citizen because they were a citizen by virtue of their birth, what the fuck are they?

  56. ?, nobody is checking grammar at 12:32AM

  57. We won the election and now these sore losers will continue to spew your hate with lies. The way our courts work is that you get a competent lawyer, verifiable facts and present them to a judge, if the facts are real and not half baked lies, then, and only then, you proceed to trial. The Birthers seem to be having a problem with their so called facts that they present. Let’s face it no one will go along with you until you guys win a case, but until then, you will continue to appear dumb, crazy or racist, or maybe all three. Keep plucking that chicken.

  58. People who had no trouble believing that Saddam Hussein was threatening all mankind and menacing every living creature on earth with the terrible weapons of super-science should have no difficulty believing that:

    Two impecunious college students in 1961 conjured the up-front cash (enough to pay for two new automobiles) to travel to Kenya, have a child, bribe airline officials to omit their names from the passenger manifest, fly back to the U.S., smuggle the infant past customs and immigration (or bribe the officials), then risk a felony perjury conviction by falsely swearing to birth in Hawaii (or bribing Health Dept. officials), all in order to insure that their mixed race baby would someday be eligible for POTUS, when they could have gotten the same thing just by staying home in Hawaii! It all makes perfect sense!

  59. To the Birthers, prove it, Oh that’s right you can’t, just more of your unsubstantiated rumors you keep writing on your hands to help you keep up. You are just another Palin, just like “W”, just like Quayle, just like Reagan. I love you guys. Keep plucking that chicken.


  60. @bestpriceforsales equus 3100 3 of 13 people found the following review helpful:

  61. i think it was perfectly fine for people to ask for the proof of his birth, besides if it was me and was asked to show proof of mine id simply pull it out and show it. but honestly this is the best proof you got showing tea partyers are racist… seriously.

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