Obamacare

How Many Americans Will Choose to be Uninsured Even if Insurance is Mandatory?

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USA Today looks at how many folks will choose to be uninsured despite mandates to buy insurance or…pay a fine that for several years at least will be far less than the cheapest plan out there.

Under the Senate bill, people who don't buy coverage would face a maximum penalty of $95 beginning in 2014. That would jump in 2016 to $750 or 2% of their annual income up to the cost of the cheapest health plan, whichever is greater. In the House bill, violators would pay as much as 2.5% of their annual income up to the cost of the cheapest plan beginning in 2013.

When people buy health insurance on their own rather than through employers, the average cost in 2016 is projected to be $5,500 for an individual policy and $13,100 for family coverage, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Both bills would provide a sliding scale of subsidies to individuals who earn less than $43,320 or families of four who earn less than $88,200. The bills also exempt millions of people from the mandate, including for financial hardship.

Incidentally, using 2007 figures, household income of $88,000 puts a household in the second-highest income quintile, which included households making between $60,000 and $97,000. So if in fact the government will be subsidizing people in that income bracket, it will be subsidizing upper-middle-class earners.

Anyhoo, USAT notes that when Massachusetts created its involuntary coverage mandate, the percentage of uninsured declined from 7 percent to 4 percent. It also cites Congressional Budget Office numbers on the percentage of Americans who resolutely fail to do what they are told to do by law:

• Most states have required seat belt use for about two decades, yet 18% of Americans still don't buckle up.

• Schools have required children to get immunized for chickenpox since the 1990s, but 15% don't get vaccinated.

• Nearly all states require drivers to buy car insurance, but 15% don't comply.

Whole story here.

So what percentage of Americans won't buy mandated insurance? It's not clear, though it seems a no-brainer that if the penalty is only $95, many won't, at least at first. And the non-compliants (a term with Philip K. Dickian resonance and one that I'm sure will become common parlance if and when the current miscarriage of health care reform passes) will be concentrated among the relatively young and healthy, precisely the demographic that the government wants to pull into the pool to lower costs and raise revenues. But that's OK, because we have ways of making them work, right?

Gaze upon the folks you need to convince that mandatory health insurance (not care, mind you, insurance) is, well, mandatory:

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  1. Dude that is incredible. I like it.

    RT
    http://www.anonymous-web.cz.tc

  2. I’m hoping the mandate is declared unconstitutional so that this entire post ends up being moot.

        1. If the Supreme Court grows a pair long enough to declare this unconstitutional, I will wander downtown with nothing on but a bandanna wrapped around my wang, singing showtunes and handing ten dollar bills to everyone I see.

          In other words, don’t hold your breath.

        2. We can hope, but I wouldn’t count on our current SCOTUS to declare it unconstitutional. I for one, will not buy it, I will pay the fine. The problem they are going to run into is that most young people are not going to give up their cool stuff to buy health insurance, they will pay the fine if it is cheaper. Just imagine the shock of young college students who supported this crap when they graduate and get jobs that pay over the min to get subsidized and realize that they spent all that time getting a degree so they could live the good life, with lots of cool stuff, only to find that they are going to have to spend an oppressive amount of their income to fund other peoples health insurance. They will need to make the fines equal to the insurance cost to force people to buy in, then they are going to have to deal with a lot of very angry people. This thing is going to implode, just watch.

          1. Who the hell is “living the good life” but can’t spare money for health insurance? It ain’t rich people with good jobs who don’t have coverage.

            1. Young, single males, particularly those who work in sales.

              Basically people with no realistic chance of actually requiring any health care in a particular year that would cost more than their deductible.

              Those people are being asked simply to piss away a good chunk of their disposal income so that older – and usually RICHER – people don’t have to pay the actual cost of their healthcare.

              That’s what this is really about. Because the social security tax and the Medicare tax aren’t regressive ENOUGH to satisfy our statist overlords, and because they aren’t generationally abusive ENOUGH, we need to double down and find new ways to fuck young people up the ass to pay for benefits for older, sicker and RICHER people.

              1. Oh, and all self-employed males under the age of 35. Them too. They are also fucked here. Health insurance is a bad use of capital for those folks, and community rating will make it an INSANELY uneconomic and stupid use of capital for those folks. But that doesn’t matter, because it’s not about getting value for those people – it’s about consciously and deliberately fucking them over and ass-raping them for the benefit of people in other demographics.

            2. I was self employed and uninsured from age 22-37. I went to the doctor twice in the entire time, both very minor things that I paid out-of-pocket $100-200. I was making well into six figures during that period. I saved a lot of money not having insurance. I would have considered a catastrophic coverage plan, but that won’t count as coverage under these bills.

    1. I think Brittany Murphy was holding her breath waiting for that to happen.

  3. Here we go again, basing a tax on someone’s income. There is no such thing as equal protection under the law.

    1. Are you serious? Are you serious?

      1. I can never get enough of that, thanks.

        1. Are you serious? Are you serious?

          1. Bend over and I’ll show you.

  4. Hopefully the states that are trying to pass amendments that will not recognize this shit succeed too.

  5. We’re so fucked.

    1. I’d like to say that you should embrace it! It marks the beginning of the end! The “Revolution” is soon to follow!

      I doubt it though.

      So yeah, we’re fucked. And we’re only gonna get it harder and faster from now on.

    2. Not necessarily. Don’t obey. Don’t pay the fine. If they arrest you, demand a jury trial. Bog down the system. The mandate is an unconstitutional capitation – a head tax. While it may or may not be pragmatic to obey an unconstitutional law, you are under no moral obligation to do so.

      1. If they arrest you, demand that they provide you with a lawyer. And demand that the lawyer defend you – don’t cop a plea.

      2. I don’t think the IRS allows you the option of a jury trial. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

        1. Well, not exactly a jury trial, but ….

        2. and how is THAT not unconstitutional? Last time I read, the 6th and 7th amendments were quite explicit on this topic.

  6. how can a poor person fight this? will there be any legal organizations that will help people challenge this in court? I have no insurance and if I still don’t have private insurance by the time 2014 rolls around I plan to fight this. this is unconstitutional they can’t take my money without due process or compensation and for someone with no income that is an excessive fine. sounds like 5th and 8th amendment violations to me.

    1. I see the 2% of income thing, so if you made no income and didn’t have insurance does that still mean 2% of 0 is still 0?

      1. Don’t worry if you don’t have an income or have a low income. You will be fine, the one’s of us that have middle class incomes are the ones that will get fucked by this piece of shit.

    2. If you claim you have no income, they will prosecute you for lying on your tax filings, since nobody can live without any income.

      http://www.businessinsider.com…..ar-2009-12

  7. I for one am willing to not buy the insurance, not pay the fine, and end up being the test case when the gov tries to throw me in jail. I’d love to have the PLF or the IJ take my case up to the Supreme Court.

    1. Here is the problem with that. They can call this a fine, it sounds better, but it will actually be implemented as a tax. So in effect what you will be doing is not paying your taxes. So they will not put you in jail, only take all your stuff. I would recommend, just pay the fucking fine, don’t buy in. We still have plenty of time to fight this shit and lots of ways to do it. If you want to fight with the IRS, more power to you, I just would not recommend it if you have any things of value, like a home or a car.

      1. You’re right, they’ll likely refer to the matter to the IRS for collection. And we know how successful challenges to the IRS are…

        I need to stop thinking about this since its causing my blood to boil.

      2. “Here is the problem with that. They can call this a fine, it sounds better, but it will actually be implemented as a tax. So in effect what you will be doing is not paying your taxes. So they will not put you in jail, only take all your stuff.”

        Just like they did for Geithner, right? Oh, wait…

  8. Jeez. I have the cheapest, highest deductible “catastrophic” plan I could find when I went self employed, and it costs me $1200/year as a single, healthy 30 y.o male. These guys are nuts if they think the average is going to be $750/year. I wish their delusions would apply to something fatal like the ability to stop a train with their bare hands.

  9. I will never.

    Never.

  10. g) Administration and Procedure-

    `(1) IN GENERAL- The penalty provided by this section shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68.

    `(2) SPECIAL RULES- Notwithstanding any other provision of law–

    `(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES- In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

    `(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES- The Secretary shall not–

    `(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or

    `(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.’.

    1. Where is this from? If it is from the bill, is there any chance it stays there?

    2. JoJo,

      I take it that is language from the healthcare bill? Am I reading it right – that people who don’t buy health insurance or pay the fine cannot be prosecuted? Surely that can’t be so.

      1. Yup, from the language in the bill.

        http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..-mandatory

        1. Of course, we have not seen the final bill yet. They will amend that language right out of the bill, and treat non-payment of the penalty the same as not paying any other federal tax.

          1. That’s because it is a tax – despite The Lord of Liars’ bullshit to the contrary.

            1. Yep, no new taxes on the middle class, lol, lying scumbag.

        2. So, not only is the Government run option out, but basically they can’t do anything to you if you don’t comply?

          Hmmm. I really don’t know what to say here. I guess it’s a silver lining but I still don’t trust it. Seems too good. And it seems like it would make this bill more of an overt opening salvo on healthcare and marching towards a single payer system by further bogging down coverage in this country.

          Color me bewildered here.

          1. That just says the Federal Government can’t prosecute you for not paying the fine. It doesn’t say the IRS can’t come after you.

        3. What bill? Harry Reid hasn’t released the 2k+ page bill beyond the closed-door cabal writing it. No one has seen the bill.

          Very anti-democratic crap going on. There’s people speculating whether there will be elections in 2010, and threatening Ballots or Bullets.

          1. There’s people speculating whether there will be elections in 2010, and threatening Ballots or Bullets.

            A little paranoid are we?

      2. The IRS administers the penalties. You won’t be criminally charged and prosecuted and get a taxpayer paid attorney and have a jury trial. You will owe the IRS, with the lovely late fees and penalties and interest they charge. There is no due process, they don’t have to get a court judgment against you, they just assess the fine. They won’t place a lien against your real estate to collect when you sell, refi, or die. Big whoop. They’ll collect your tax refunds till you die. Adjust your W4 and don’t overwithhold.

        If you’re indigent enough to qualify for a taxpayer funded attorney, you’re poor enough to qualify for the expanded Medicaid.

        So quit whining, and you’re welcome.

        1. You don’t get criminally charged for not paying your taxes? Really? Last I heard tax evasion was a prosecutable offense. No one around here is whining, honey – far from it.

  11. Health care is priceless. And because it’s priceless, it should be free.

  12. Great, I’m self-employed so I can arrange to make less money and get a subsidy. Not only will the “rich” help me pay, but I’ll be putting less money in the pot to help the rest of you. Great job, Obama. Great job, Dummocrats.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    1. I started making less money the day Obama was elected. My legitimate expenditures are way up this year in order to lower my income. I will keep it up until the day he leaves office.

  13. Its shocking how bad this bill is, even by DC terms. Lets see- i can pay $95 a year and if i get sick, the insurance companies will be forced to cover me (call a spade a spade, they will be forced to pay my medical bills, its not insurance at that point). Or I can pay several thousand dollars a year for exactly the same thing… Hmm. Toughy.

  14. read the book, How to be Invisible
    They cant tax you if they cant find you

  15. Hey Brett- more good news, your plan is about to become illegal. So much for keeping your plan if you like it huh? I guess nobody told Congress that if require all plans to be gold plated, they will become more expensive.

  16. While being unalterable opposed to Obamacare, I can see how some people are convinced that government takeover is necessary: a friend recently spent one day and night in a suburban hospital to have an ACL repaired. The retail bill – without surgeon and anestetist – came to $34,000! All it takes is for a handful of people billed this kind of money to write to their Senator and Congressman and the “we’ve got to do something, anything” ball starts rolling.

    1. As a cruel and heartless libertarian, I would have no problem telling your friend that he can pay the bill or walk with a cane — it’s his choice. I have no moral or ethical obligation to help him pay if he can’t.

      1. Your friend chose not to purchase health insurance, which protects against FINANCIAL losses–it doesn’t keep you healthy. He just learned the difference.

        When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose. Go negotiate with patient financial counseling and see if they can reduce it to 10%, 25%, 33% of the bill–that’s what insurance contracts pay. (Some things are fully paid like labs, other things are widely negotiable.)

        Then pay the bill. That’s what he chose when he decided to buy cool stuff instead of health insurance.

        Good thing it wasn’t cancer. I pay $13 per bimonthly paycheck for my health insurance, and have received over $800k MSRP in health care in the last 2 1/2 years because of cancer.

    2. I tore my ACL in 2006 and had the surgery. I have employer-paid insurance. The billed charges were over $26,000. The amount the insurer paid was less than $7,000. I paid a $1,000 deductible. The only people who are forced to pay retail are the uninsured and personal injury defendants.

  17. “Don’t obey. Don’t pay the fine.”

    Theyre ahead of that- its in the IRS’s court. They will just garnish your wages.

    1. They can try. 🙂

    2. You’ve got to be smart about it, Mark. I’m contemplating civil disobedience on this, too, but I’m going to make sure the IRS can’t touch a dime of my family’s assets before I do. After that, it will be a matter of structuring my life so the IRS won’t be able to find my income to garnish.

    3. So the Patriotic solution is to shoot enough IRS agents that the rest say “Fuck it. It’s not worth it.”

      1. Not quite yet. But keep the guns oiled.

  18. Ichabod!

  19. The senate bill is going to raise the income cutoff for medicaid eligibility. I don’t have the specifics yet but assume that a lot more people will qualify for and get medicaid. Depending on how the eligibility requirements are changed, Medicaid coul end up taking in a lot of the working poor and students and such. Withe the overall raise of income limits for medicaid eligibility, the Nebraska deal where they can allow folks to get it at 133% of federal income guidelines, that really adds a lot more to the Nelson bribe amount.

  20. You are missing the point. They know this will be unworkable, and in a few years will, in sorrow of course, switch over to a Canadian-style single payer system.

    Healthcare workers will be government employees, and unionized (which is why SEIU is fighting so hard for this bill). Placement of hospitals, treatment priorities, etc., will all be politicized.

    I seem to recall all you now outraged Reasonoids were cheering when Santorum was defeated. Too bad, him (or at least one other like him) could have stopped this.

    1. That’s the best you’ve got? Fuck Santorum. And fuck the Republicans who screwed so much up in the eight years prior to Obama. They’re ultimately the ones to blame. Bush cleared the path. Obama is paving it.

      1. And fuck the Republicans who screwed so much up in the eight years prior to Obama. They’re ultimately the ones to blame. Bush cleared the path. Obama is paving it.

        Sure, fuck those Republicans. But deciding who is “ultimately” to blame is a fool’s game. Perhaps the American people are “ultimately” to blame for preferring such policies. Perhaps libertarians are “ultimately” to blame for not realizing the American’s zeitgeist settling and voting tactically enough to prevent total one-party control.

        One person is a tragedy, millions a statistic. That’s why Congress wasted so much time on the case of one lady in a coma, and why so many libertarians thought that was an offense worth conceding on government health care expansion.

        1. Perhaps libertarians are “ultimately” to blame for not realizing the American’s zeitgeist settling and voting tactically enough to prevent total one-party control buying an island and creating Libertopia already.

    2. You are missing the point. They know this will be unworkable, and in a few years will, in sorrow of course, switch over to a Canadian-style single payer system.

      Healthcare workers will be government employees, and unionized (which is why SEIU is fighting so hard for this bill). Placement of hospitals, treatment priorities, etc., will all be politicized.

      You’re very likely right, but how could Santorum have stopped all this?

      1. one more R in the senate, and this thing would have been filibustered until it came apart

        elections have consequences, and it is easy to take cynical shots at the party in power, until someone comes in who is much much worse

  21. Incidentally, using 2007 figures, household income of $88,000 puts a household in the second-highest income quintile, which included households making between $60,000 and $97,000. So if in fact the government will be subsidizing people in that income bracket, it will be subsidizing upper-middle-class earners.

    Not really. Family households make up 68% of all households, but make up a minority of households in the lowest quintile and are underrepresented in the second quintile. The proportion holds up in the third quintile and families make up >80% in the top two quintiles. The median of family households is right around the border of the third and fourth quintile. So a four person household that makes $88K is slightly above average for a family household. Single and young people bring down the averages, while four person households tend to be older and average more than one earner.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H…..#Quintiles

  22. Well, those “re-education camps” aren’t just going to be instituted without a good reason, you know. See you there. . .

  23. I’m really starting to believe that the last two decades of the 20th century, the Reagan-Clinton years, if you will, will be looked back on as a kind of golden age.

  24. The nation will need a new class of Health Care Program Advisors NGO -style parasites. I should study up on the details of this, and start working on grant proposals.

  25. CN- I really, truly look at the Clinton Years as “the good old days”.

    It sucks.

  26. Start planning to go on strike.

    Don’t break the law, but minimize your taxable income. Do it for a few months if nothing else, and crater their tax revenues. If you have some savings, you can hold out a lot longer than the government can.

    I see no other option.

    Oh, and if you have employees, lay off/fire the Obama voters first.

    1. Ahhh… the Galt Option.
      I’ve already taken that route.

      In February, I’m taking it one step further by reducing my reportable income to below the minimum taxable rate. (ie, I’ll earn just enough through part-time work to cover property taxes and maybe a little play money.)
      Been laying the groundwork for several years….

      1. What about self-employment taxes? Those are due on any earned income over $400.

        1. Not an issue in my case.

    2. Oh, and if you have employees, lay off/fire the Obama voters first.

      Hell, they all work for the government!

    3. Way ahead of you. I released all my clients last January, except one. My year end income came in at $9,700, a tenth of last year’s. I’m actually eligible for the EITC!
      I can live on savings for a few years til the wheel hopefully turns. Will not buy health insurance though. It never made sense to access health care through that financial product. The whole point of health insurance is to get men to subsidize the over use of health care by women. Not gonna play.

  27. And fuck the Republicans who screwed so much up in the eight years prior to Obama. They’re ultimately the ones to blame.

    No, the Dems are to blame. They are passing this without one single Republican vote. Time to put away the “its all Bush’s fault” toys.

    1. Uh, and why was it, R.C., that the Republicans crashed so spectacularly in the last election?

      1. Iraq war.

      2. 1) fatigue with the party in power, people always eventually get bored and want a change

        2) sudden, sharp recession which spooked everyone, caused in part by years of policies pursued by both policies, also in part just by the normal business cycle

        3) an extraordinary level of media bias unseen since FDR

        4) lingering dissatisfaction over iraq & afghanistan

        5) dissatisfaction by the R base because Bush was not really a conservative

        there are a few

    2. Uh, and why was it, R.C., that the Republicans crashed so spectacularly in the last election?

      1. Because of their spectacular moral and political corruption, not to mention their fiscal collapse. In other words, they became the Democratic Party of the early 1990s.

    3. Refusing to back reform may help republicans in 2010. It will hurt them on 2012 because that’s a presidential race and all the poor and disenfranchised that came out of the woodwork in 08′ will show up again to re-elect Obama. The repubs will be painted with that “hates the poor” brush.

      In summation: the dems are giving away a fuckton of “free” shit and the voters will reward them. The repubs will once again get a godsmack for being greedy rich white folks.

    4. Face it RCD, your Iraq war, and the non-existent WMDs that sold it to the voters, is what led to the GOP crash being as large as it was.

      You may have opposed lying about WMD, you may oppose Obamacare, but your political views and your War on Terror gave the Dems what they needed to pass it.

      Thank you, RCD.

      1. If not for the Iraq war, Saddam would still be collecting his bribes fronm the French and the Russians and now be putting the last coat of paint on his nuclear weapons. If the people forgot that, that is hardly the fault of the GOP.

        Besides, by 2008 the war was a done deal. Electing Obama didn’t make the war not happen. No matter how mad anyone was about the war, that didn’t justify electing Obama and 60 Democrat senators.

        The Republicans don’t deserve one ounce of blame for this debacle. This is all from the left. And if you voted for any Democrat in 2008, this is your fault, too.

        1. If not for the Iraq war, Saddam would still be collecting his bribes fronm the French and the Russians and now be putting the last coat of paint on his nuclear weapons.

          I smell a blockbuster screenplay!

        2. Don’t forget the Germans.

  28. remember when reason loved madated insurance?
    https://reason.com/archives/200…..urance-now

    1. *Mandated* that be, says I.

  29. Failing to buy an expensive Obamacare policy won’t leave me uninsured, since I have a superb, all-inclusive policy with $2 Million lifetime coverage, available to all member of the American Bar Association. However, it doesn’t meet the requirements of Obamacare because it has a $15,000 deductible. Because the preponderance of health insurance costs are attributable to small claims processing, my insurance costs only about $600 per YEAR in New York, before the policy dividend, which this year is 30%! (Deductibles from $10,000 to $50,000 are available.) Obamacare mandates a low deductible policy that at the high end will amount to extremely expensive pre-payment for hypochondriacs and at the bottom to restriction to a third-world clinics with low IQ, affirmative action doctors that many purchasers will elect not to use when they see what they get for a “mere” $5,000 per year premium. No thanks, Comrade Senatorskys. I would rather pay the fine and go to a leading Professor of Medicine at NYU or Columbia at my own expense on the rare occasions when I need to see a doctor.

  30. Uh, and why was it, R.C., that the Republicans crashed so spectacularly in the last election?

    It doesn’t matter, if the question is who to blame for Obamacare. Obamacare is 100% pure quill Democrat.

    Blaming the Republicans for not having more than 40 Senators is like blaming the libertarians for not having built up a national party over the last forty years that displaced one of the current parties.

    I’m not saying the Repubs aren’t a pack of rabid, moronic weasels. I’m just saying its time to be perfectly clear who is responsible for Obamacare, and its not them.

    1. Face it RCD, your Iraq war, and the non-existent WMDs that sold it to the voters, is what led to the GOP crash being as large as it was.

      You may have opposed lying about WMD, you may oppose Obamacare, but your political views and your War on Terror gave the Dems what they needed to pass it.

      Thank you, RCD.

      PS. I hate threaded comments.

    2. If the Libertarian party had had the Presidency and both houses of Congress, and pissed it away in a handful of years by pursuing big-government policies that were in complete variance from their platform and by waging vastly unpopular wars and by pissing on the Bill of Rights every chance they got, you can be damn sure I’d be blaming the Libertarians too.

  31. I will remain uninsured. As I understand it, they are adding in a clause that would allow me to buy insurance once I am already sick. Too bad there is not the public option, because I would much rather screw over the federal government than screw over an insurance company, but heh, gotta look out for number 1 here, right?

  32. My wife and I are young and healthy and we do not have children. We opted for a catastrophic health care plan because most of the care we need is dental (my family has bad teeth) and vision (we both have bad eyes). We each go to the doctor about once a year for minor illnesses. If forced to pay for expensive health care mandates, we won’t be able to afford the care we actually need.

    1. What a quaint notion. In the age of the collective, the Borg is all that matters. Your individual circumstances are irrelevant. The Borg needs your premium dollars to offset the health costs of that diabetic obese woman who ordered the Double Whopper in front of you at BK.

      But think of the peace of mind you will have knowing you are covered for the long list of mandated coverages under the comprehensive health plan — and how good you will feel knowing that you are needed (or your dollars are needed) to pay for your fellow citzens’ costs. The good feelings you will get from the altruism alone will make you forget all about that crown that came loose.

      Sorry, mastermind, no right spots and no right colors if you think you get to choose what is best for you.

      1. The Borg needs your premium dollars to offset the health costs of that diabetic obese woman who ordered the Double Whopper in front of you at BK.

        Let the bitch die.

        1. Seriously. At least the borg knew how to cut their losses.

    2. selfish bastards! your assets will be forcibly reallocated to those who have made different life choices!

  33. I have a healthy lifestyle and I haven’t seen a doctor in many decades. Why should I have to pay for something I don’t need? Why should I have to subsidize morons who smoke, drink, eat junk, and never exercise? This mandatory health insurance idea is for dictatorships.

    1. Why should I have to subsidize morons who smoke, drink, eat junk, and never exercise?

      Uh, cuz there’s more of us than you.

      1. We could fix that, fatso.

    2. because the government has more guns and jail cells than you

    3. So, if you get injured and require medical care (that can’t be refused by a hospital and you can’t afford) are you going to refuse care and die or raise my insurance rate for taking care of you?

  34. This is MUCH worse than it seems at first glance.

    Since there’s no PEC denial anymore, you aren’t buying insurance, you’re buying the right to exchange your medical bills for premiums. As a rational actor you would of course only do this when the latter became greater than the former.

    This means more and more healthy people will drop out of insurance, buffered only by the stickiness in the fact that employers provide a lot of coverage and don’t usually offer cash equivalents (yet) and the fines (which are tiny).

    Premiums will skyrocket as fewer people are paying in more than they take out. Some rational employers will respond by offering employees cash and telling them “Hey, if you’re healthy, why not take cash? It’s not like you can be denied coverage!” More people will drop off, and premiums will go even higher.

    It’s hard to see a good end to this…

    1. It will be the end of the private insurance industry – except for those who “are too big to fail” and get bailed out or taken over by the government. That’s been the plan of the Left all along. Obama is going to be a real hero to them for this – on the same scale as FDR.

  35. Don’t buy health insurance and don’t pay the fine.

    Two million people demonstrated at the T.E.A parties during the year, do you think the system could deal with that many citizens who stood up and refused? How about if Glenn Beck suggested the millions of people who watch his show refused? What about if the 20 million people who listened to Rush refused? No system of oppression could deal with such a vast number and I think we all know that Americans will do more than passively refuse; they will launch legal and political action against this monstrosity as well.

    This can only work if people act like sheep and follow the orders of their so called betters. Face it, there are not enough ACORN and union thugs to go brownshirt and force you to follow the mandate, the plan will collapse when enough people simply say “no”

    1. I wonder if Beck or Rush would have that kind of guts. Other than that I think you are right.

      I suppose this Godwins the thread, but I can’t help but wonder what would have happened during the Nazi occupation of Europe – if all those Jews who meekly obeyed the government and boarded the trains and entered the showers would have resisted.

      1. If they had resisted, would they have been any less dead?

      2. The National Socialist government of Germany made sure that they couldn’t resist. Under the 1938 German Weapons Act Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or ownership of firearms and ammunition. Gun control laws are there to make sure the population obeys…

  36. If they had resisted, would they have been any less dead?

    Crap. I meant, would they have been any more dead.

    1. don’t worry, it works both ways

  37. Easy enough to rectify.
    If on April 15th or even sooner all working Americans stay home from work until this thing is repealed and Obama resigns, we can have our country back.
    No need for guns or Political Coups, just with hold your services to the Economy.
    If you are an emergency responder do your job. Just everyone refrain from taxable endeavours for the duration.
    Missing a weekor two of wages would be a better financial deal than Obamacare.

  38. I will purposely drop out of my individual plan, which being an HSA probably wasn’t going to survive anyway. I also won’t pay the fine. They can kiss my ass.

  39. I don’t have a problem with people not buying insurance; as long as they sign a waiver stating that medical care can be refused if they don’t pony up payment in advance. I don’t want to see them drag their sorry rear end to a clinic or an emergency room to get “free” care that is paid for by raising MY insurance cost. As it stands, by law care cannot be refused; so with no insurance, who do you think ends up paying for the freeloaders?

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  42. Just how is the IRS going to know if you have health care? I live in Il., a state with mandatory car insurance. When you fill out the form to renew your plates, you have to put down your ins. co. name and policy. I know many people just make one up. Do you think the IRS is really going to catch you if you make up a fake policy? The only time you may get screwed is if you get sick.

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