Economics

Michael Moore Will Only Keep Making Movies If There's a Revolution

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Mother Jones' David Corn explains how to end Michael Moore's career as a filmmaker:

After a screening in Washington on Tuesday night, Moore told the audience that if people don't rise up and take action after watching this film, that's it-he's done making movies. I can do other things, he remarked. He said this without a smile-which made it seem he wasn't kidding. But what action? Make citizen's arrests of the heads of Citigroup and AIG, as Moore attempts to do in the film? Boycott airlines that pay their pilots diddly? Become squatters in foreclosed McMansions? In response to a question from the audience, Moore did explain that campaign finance reform must be the number one priority. "You have to get the money out of politics," he said. "There is no way for us to compete with Wall Street." He also chastised the White House for endorsing a public option health plan instead of a single-payer insurance program, exclaiming, "you don't start with your compromise." Yet he urged progressives to push Obama, not pile on.

Whole bit here.

A couple of weeks ago, Reason contributor Sean Higgins gave a preview of Moore's latest flick, Capitalism: A Love Story. Read all about it here.

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  1. Since I doubt we will have a Marxist revolution anytime soon, I guess Moore is going to have to quit making movies. Or, more likely deny he ever made such a statement the next time his fat ass needs to pick up a check.

    1. Hey cool
      I can reply to the first comment and then mine is at the top too!
      No wait I mean that sucks. So does a bunch of other shit. No “remember me” no formatting, no edit or even preview.

      What the hell Reason? Who thought this was an improvement?

      1. I like the idea of persistent threads and replies, but they should open minimized, with only the top line displayed.

      2. I like the idea of persistent threads and replies, but they should open minimized, with only the top line displayed.

        1. And holy crap will spam be bad now, I just did it on accident, how easy it would be with intent…

      3. Not to mention that linked names have the same color and appearance as non-linked names. That is, like, the 2nd most important thing in web design.

  2. I can do other things, he remarked.

    This is the most ridiculous phrase in his ramblings. Sure, he might be qualified to flip burgers, but, don’cha know, he has a right to a high-paying job of his own choosing.

    Ask him to square this statement with his typical take on labor, which is, apparently, that people deserve well paying jobs bacause they need them, not because they have any particular talent or skill.

    1. Maybe he’s qualified to be a burger taster.

    2. Well, most people have talents or skills. It’s “what the market demands” and other b.s. that is causing wages to plummet.

      Oh, I agree, Moore is as much an opportunistic phony who waggles his tongue just to make a buck as Rush Limbaugh does, but I fear, one day, you will find excuses if you are deemed “overpaid” and the rest…

  3. Ok, so the “blockquote” html tag doesn’t work anymore. New format is teh crap.

  4. I’m not concerned. They’ll find him dead, choked on a hot dog, one of these days.

    1. Nah, dead with a hypodermic needle (still half-filled with extract of frankfurter) in his arm.

  5. only a douchebag like Moore would be in favor of giving politicians more taxpayer money to run campaigns. this conveniently wipes out any chance of 3rd party competition.
    Moore is a fucking moron, he doesn’t know what capitalism is and he thinks democracy is an economic system.

  6. Eeven in Libertopia Moore would still be making movies and Reason would still be begging for donations.

  7. Morris, in Libertopia there probably wouldn’t even be a Reason Foundation. What purpose would it serve?

  8. OK, any reason why I have to retype my handle every single freakin’ time? I don’t see a “remember me” box to check.

    1. See, I am too creating jobs!

    2. At least it does not bounce me over to another page and eat my comment now.

    3. OK, any reason why I have to retype my handle every single freakin’ time? I don’t see a “remember me” box to check.

      Eh, it’s not that bad. As long as no one else posts something using the same handle that you do.

      Wait, what?

  9. I wonder if bloated hollywood millionaires like Moore ever stop to think that if the “Revolution” they keep agitating for actually happens, they’re far more likely to be the first ones up against the wall then be welcomed as the new glorious leaders of the proletariat. I expect Moore’s pledge to stop making movies will last about as long as Barry O’s pledges not to increase taxes.

  10. Yeah, and all those Hollywood goofballs promised to leave when Bush won election. And re-election. These celebs are always making promises they have no intention of keeping.

  11. Some? say that Michael Moore takes himself too seriously.

    1. Nice Top Gear reference Art. I knew I liked you.

      1. Thanks, John. At least someone does. ๐Ÿ˜›

        1. I like you too, but not as much as my blogger buddy does.

  12. “After a screening in Washington on Tuesday night, Moore told the audience that if people don’t rise up and take action after watching this film, that’s it-he’s done making movies”

    If only…

    1. Well, that tattoo proves irrefutably that no matter how dumb Moore is, somebody was dumber.

      1. Yeah, but that tattoo was such a bad idea that it’s genius. Seriously, I can understand maybe Fritz Lang, Luis Bunuel or Hitchcock, but Michael Moore? :::single tear runs down my face:::

  13. RC Dean,

    That was the most useful part of incif too, it autofilled for me so I didnt have to check a box.

    Plus, I remember already why I filtered Lefiti/Morris/Edward/etc.

    Interesting bad mojo moment from last night, I flipped to the Hawaii-La Tech football game and there was a player named Lefiti on the HI sideline. My comment at the time was that I thought I had him filtered out. I should have realized it was a bad omen.

    1. Holy fuck, I want that football player’s autograph. He’d probably be confused as to why.

    1. Gee, thanks, SugarFree. That hand will haunt my dreams.*

      *In a sexy way.

      1. I do have to say I love your story and your peculiar insight. And by insight I mean your spot-on depiction of how far someone’s standards in women (or men, as it may be) will drop when that person’s been deployed for awhile.*

        Looking upthread, I hope that tattoo was ironic, but I fear the worst.

        *In other words, don’t judge. It was magic.

  14. Well, well, well. Look who’s pimping his blog on REASON now. LoneSugarFree is it now? ๐Ÿ˜‰

    1. Who wrung out your douche? It’s not like they let us have email links.

      And besides, real commenting software would let me illustrate Love Crimes upon initial publication.

      1. Plus the new format makes your links work. Upgrade!

        1. Oh, if only the new format was the reason…

          By the way, no preview means even more broken links.

          1. Its not like there was a preview button before.

      2. Who wrung out your douche?

        Right back at you bro. Since when have I been stripped of my sarcasm powers?

    2. Speaking of that, NS will love the most recent post at SukiProject. I think she was saying hi to you with that one.

      1. What, no link? I want to see Naga Sadow satired, er, I mean hagiographized.

        1. Satirized*, damn, I blame the lack of “preview” for my multiple crimes against the English language.

        2. Hagiographized? I like it.

          1. Cool…the monochrome fooled me.

            1. Heh heh, I loved that news item.

    1. Picking on Matt Welch is not cool, dude. He’s not even here to defend himself.

      1. Picking on Matt Welch is one regulation I could stand behind. Hateful, low-brow man, that one.

  15. “You have to get the money out of politics,” he said. “There is no way for us to compete with Wall Street.”

    Is Moore aware of just how much in contributions Obama received from “Wall Street”? I seem to recall that he received quite a bit more than McCain did didnt he?

  16. This is a test, this is only a test, had this been a real post, I would have including action comments about the subject matter at hand.

    Oh, Michael Moore is fat.

  17. Saw that corpulent hypocrite on Dobbs this week, trying to squirm his way out of saying what he REALLY thinks of the capitalist system that keeps Moore in the top 5 percent of wage-earners – the same group of people he despises.

    No wonder he is what he is. Self-loathing will do that to a person.

    1. At least he hasn’t done a scathing documentary on self-important filmmakers yet, has he?

    2. If you want to puke, watch this in HD sometime.

      1. Anderson’s not that bad.

        . . .

        Oh god.

  18. So has anyone asked MM what bank and corporate bailouts have to do with capitalism?

    Or is the definition of capitalism now officially Corporate Welfare State Socialism?

    I guess we’ll have to start using a new term for the system we’re in favor of.

    1. Yeah, I think his using the bailouts to illustrate the horrors of capitalism is analogous to the guy at the town meeting who warned the government to stay away from his Medicare – and equally idiotic.

  19. Oh, and what airlines “pay their pilots diddly”?

  20. Moore’s gotta be one of the world’s richest Marxists.

    I think he’ll be making more movies. Even if it’s a movie about how he’s not gonna be making more movies.

    1. I have heard it said before, only the rich can afford to be Communists. I think they were talking about Ted Turner at the time.

  21. Contempt for the masses, not compassion for the poor, motivates the welfare statist, a disciple manqu? of the Gotha Marx. It is from his creation of an “evil” entity — the “greed,” “selfishness,” and “materialism” of all others, of society — that he derives, with his advocacy of redistribution, an opposed “good” identity — his own “social conscience.” For a Michael Moore, the evil of America — of capitalist society — is that it will not “guarantee” free, unlimited medicine for all as a political right, while his own good is to be found right there in his support for such a noble (i.e., paper) proclamation. His position doesn’t come from a focus on the reality (theoretical and empirical) of health care as provided by the market vs. the State, a reality well known in Canada (which didn’t legislate free, unlimited medicine for all, but government control over all areas of medicine) and brilliantly dramatized in the Qu?becois export The Barbarian Invasions, the 2004 Oscar winner for best foreign language film. If the good is to be found in the market — in “civil society,” the explicit enemy from Marx to Chomsky — what is to be gained from setting oneself apart from — above — it?

    From here.

    1. Well said.

      To spin off what robc said upthread, does Moore’s comment seem to have the same sort of tenor of one of Edward’s famous “I’m leaving, I mean it” rants?

      1. It doesn’t really matter to me, Art.

        Even if Moore does make more films, I still won’t bother going see them.

        1. What, not even to yell out “You Lie!” in the theater?

          The last M. Moore movie I saw was “Fahrenheit 9/11”. It seems like a really long time ago that I watched it (in theaters) and I doubt I’ll ever see a Moore feature again, either.

          1. The only M. Moore movies I’ve ever seen was Roger and Me (because I was dating a lefty at the time) and Canadian Bacon.

            Roger and Me was just such a piece of shit distortion and cluelessness that I just sat rolling my eyes or shaking my head through damn near every scene. Frankly people who believe what the see and hear in MM films are the eqivalent to me of people who believe the bible is literally true.

            Canadian Bacon had it’s moments but in the end I just kept asking myself why everyone thinks MM is so fucking great.

  22. I just think its funny he makes a movie with an anti-capitalist stance, and then makes people pay money to see it.

    1. Yippie!

  23. Michael Moore is a Big, Fat, LIAR!

  24. As I continually remind advocates of a single payer system, the Canadian Supreme Court found its single payer system unconstitutional because it could not deliver timely health care.

    1. Well, not exactly. They found that Quebec’s restrictions on private alternatives violated the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms.

      Other Provinces with similar restrictions have made little or no effort to change their policies.

      1. IOW, the court decision has resulted in pretty much zero in the way of change.

      2. Well, they just need to be sued then apparently.

        Anyway, clearly it has failed in Quebec based on its own standards, which is fairly damning.

    2. What, so one of their tests for constitutionality is that the law has to actually be effective? What a novel concept.

      1. Again, not exactly.

        The section of the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms that Qebec’s program violated was essentially the one that says that healthcare was a basic human right.

  25. “You have to get the money out of politics,”

    Does this mean Michael Moore agrees with me, that we should randomly select names from the telephone book and send the < s> winners< /s> victims to Congress?

    [Did you see what I did, there? Now that “strikethrough” has been jettisoned…]

    1. I thought the < s> thing was for “sarcasm.”

      1. < s> Yes, mitch, the “s” thing was for sarcasm. < /s>

        1. Nothing personal, I couldn’t resist.

  26. This fat fuck of a multi-millionaire is making movies against capitalism while swimming in champagne.

    Ironic, but he is also charging people to see his movie against capitalism.

  27. “After a screening in Washington on Tuesday night, Moore told the audience that if people don’t rise up and take action after watching this film, that’s it-he’s done making movies.”

    Uh huh.

    Just like Alec Baldwin was going to leave the country if Bush won the election

  28. I’ll see it. I’ve seen almost all his shit. I also go to Marxist seminars because I’m curious how they think. It’s research. Moore’s film is research. Everyone here should see it so they can refute it around friends. If that even matters, of course.

    1. Don’t you think I’ve suffered enough?

      1. Does it feel great hearing everybody say he’s right?

        1. It would feel about like hearing someone say Nickelback’s the best grunge band evar.

          1. I’m just personally more irritated by hearing friends squawk about his “vision”, his “prescience”. I feel I have to see the work so I know exactly where to focus.

            1. Or get a better class of friend.

              Failing that, you could be the guy who nobody wants to talk politics around because you’ll mock and belittle their most cherished political ideas. I’ve got that one nailed down in my social circle.

              I mean, shit, some people won’t listen to reason and logic no matter how hard you try because they “feel” differently about it. So I take upon myself to change how they “feel”, and not for the better.

              1. Man, my whole family won’t even talk politics around me anymore, especially since Obama turned out to be such a colossal fuckup of a POTUS. Sometimes it sucks being right all the time.

                Also, fuck the new comment format, yo.

        2. I’m with you, SxCx. Especially since refuting Moore is like shooting fish in a barrel. And once you convince one of his acolytes that his movies are willful distortions, none of which are deserving of the appellation “documentary”, you may help them walk away from socialism later on. So keep fighting the good fight.

  29. I think Moore’s ideal is probably the soft socialism of western Europe as opposed to Stalin-era Russia. The thing to keep in mind about Moore, and his audience, is that a lot of left-leaning Americans have a serious inferiority complex about being American. To these people, Europe is a sort of Xanadu of progressiveness, enlightenment, and sophistication. (Note: It’s easier to have this image of Europe if you don’t actually know anything about Europe.)

    1. It’s the same with the Klein book. Folks on here were yelling, shitting on it, “I’ll never read that piece of shit!”

      Well thousands of people did, and they’re pretty convinced.

      1. SxCx, fair enough, but there are different ways that work can be “challenging”. It can challenge your preconceptions in a very intellectually fair and rigorous way, or it can be shoddily-made sophistry. You bring up a good point in that a negative review can bias you against seeing the former category as well as the latter. However, neither of the Michael Moore films I’ve seen convinced me that he’s the type of person to make “challenging” work in a way that I find worthwhile. I could be wrong, but will you pay to refund my ticket and degauss my short-term memory if my concerns were proven correct?

        1. But that’s part of what I’m saying here: it’s not about you. Not so much you as others. I know you and many others here would have no problem dissecting his thesis and pissing all over that. I plan on doing something similar. I just want to be prepared when people inevitably start referencing that one part where he showed it’s sooo true that this happens all the time and that it’s totally because of this.

          I don’t know. As someone who can see the virtues of capitalism, I am very curious about anti-capitalist thought. I want to meet these people, watch their movies, hear them talk. for me it’s crucial to making any progress with them.

          1. I respect the hell out of that.

            1. I know it could easily be seen as masochism, I know many folks just can’t be bothered. I won’t get too hung up on that. For me it’s just social anthropology. I want to understand how people came to believe the things they do.

              1. It’s called stupidity.

                You can now thank me for saving you time on ‘research’.

                1. Do you really believe that? Do you really believe they’re just “stupid”. I don’t think you do.

                  1. I plead with everyone here to reel in the dismissive attitudes. Yes, some people believe things that are funny or probably wrong. To say they’re “just idiots” is disingenuous handwaving. It might be reassuing, but it won’t change anybody’s mind.

                    And again, I ask, is that not the whole point?

          2. I also respect the hell out of it and I do it to whatever extent I can as well (I do agree that it’s important), but I couldn’t do Sicko. I found it just a little too hard to stomach even the previews where he goes to Cuba pretending they have good health care when I’ve seen too many images from http://www.therealcuba.com

      2. I learned all I needed to know about “The Shock Doctrine” from here: http://www.tnr.com/article/books/dead-left

        You know, written by that uber-libertarian Jonathan Chait. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      3. I’ll just offer that anyone who finds themselves convinced to change an opinion based on a Michael Moore movie is dumber than a f—ing rock.

        1. What does this mean?

      4. Well thousands of people did, and they’re pretty convinced stupid.

        Let’s see if they fixed the tags after all.

      5. Yeah, but why would I waste my time with someone who can’t tell a neo-conservative from a neo-liberal?

    2. Actually, I think Moore’s ideal is Canada. Frankly I don’t know why he just doesn’t move there.

      I especially agree with this: “It’s easier to have this image of Europe if you don’t actually know anything about Europe.” So true. Also true for Canada, by the way.

    3. Not an inferiority complex, just a realistic assessment. I dunno about other lefties but I like the idea of America being on top. I just know it’s not gonna stay that way if we continue applying radical libertarian fantasies to our economy and hoping magic will keep us there rather than direct investment by a strong central government. European countries do outshine us in many ways (I could mention healthcare). No country that boasts a superior metric does so because it is more laissez-faire.

    4. It’s also easier to have that image of European superiority if one doesn’t reflect on the fact that none of the European countries would be independent nation-states today if they had not been getting military protection welfare from the United States ever since the end of World War 2.

      Not a one of them would ever have been able to afford any of the social weflare systems that liberals love so much if they had been forced to pay for their own defense.

      The economic model of the European style socialists states is entirely predicated on some external power (i.e. the United States) primarily assuming responsiblity for their physical security at no cost to them.

  30. One doesn’t need to see a MM film in order to debate its content with those who have seen it.

    1. Well, yeah, there’s this, too. The guy’s not exactly Plato.

      1. The movie is more than just an argument. It’s an aesthetic, an emotion. It’s art. It can influence in a number of ways.

        1. Again, fair enough, but doesn’t the non-rational (for lack of a better term) way that people are ideologically and politically influenced mean that people should not impute malice, stupidity or moral turpitude to people with whom they have ideological or political disagreement? I’d think this would limit the contempt he could have for people he disagreed with but also the esteem or respect he could have for his own audience. If I could articulate this question better, I’d like to ask it to him.

          1. I’d also think if he recognized this aspect of his art form, he’d also perhaps take himself less seriously.

            1. Maybe? I feel like we’re drifting into a different debate here. I was just saying that there’s more to the movie than bare anti-capitalist talking points: there’s music, imagery, symbolism, rhetoric, etc. I want to take all that in as part of my fascination with his kind.

  31. So much for those sweet sweet docs, fellas.

  32. Mr. Moore said, “You have to get the money out of politics,”

    That will happen the moment you get politics out of money. That is, a small government only concerning itself with preserving the rights of the people has no influence to buy. But, the moment you give the government to power to regulate the free market, you’ve just opened the door for money politics.

  33. Okay. This format is a bit . . . confusing. I liked it at first but it’s tough keeping up with my bumbling persona when I gotta check every damn post.

  34. As I feared, the threaded comments feature (as illustrated by me having to read the whole fucking thing over, line by line, instead of paging up from the bottom until I see a comment I recognize)

    sucks.

    1. Yeah, this is a big problem.

      Very inefficient.

  35. Moore’s an idiot. If I were a Maoist, I’d think the same thing. He’s obviously cavalier with the truth and often lacks even internal consistency. If you’re going to try to move the masses with lies and political propaganda, at least do it adroitly.

  36. I said it upthread, but no one’s gonna read it because threaded comments are hella shitty: yo, fuck the new comments format.

    1. Xeones, my friend! I’m drowning in comments! Drowning! Can’t you use that buzzsaw from SugarFree’s reporting to hunt down the people responsible for this heinous act of terrorism! No time for Warty, only for saving Reasontopia!

      1. Man, it’s like time travel…I made that comment after this one, but it’s above this one. The way things are going, I’ll end up watching my own death when I was a kid.

        1. Well . . . if you time it correctly . . . you could theoretically live forever. Caught in a loop of every moment of your life. It’ll be like on a mobius strip.

          1. Poo-tee-weet?

              1. Hmmm…haven’t read the ole “Slaughterhouse-Five”?

                1. My reading diet is Vonnegut deficient.

                  1. As you continue to reply to each reply, the margins get smaller and smaller. Eventually, it will just be
                    a line of
                    l
                    e
                    t
                    t
                    e
                    r
                    s

                    1. It stops at some point (which is almost worse since then you can’t tell what that person was responding to).

  37. Actually, as someone who has had to hang around union construction workers for much of my life, I’ve heard almost all of MM’s arguments before.

    But MM is sold as a “blue collar’ intellectual not as a barely educated yob.

  38. So, that’s, like, a threat or something???

  39. Capitalism did nothing for me.

    1. The guy has millions of dollars. When he lives in Flint, Michigan on $40k a year, he can talk. Until then, he is a giant hypocrite.

  40. Here’s an idea; instead of threaded comments, why not a “comment sequence randomizer” feature?

    The effect would be about the same, in terms of coming back to a post and trying to find out what has been happening.

    1. Maybe you could have people login and give out “mod points” to posts that are more readworthy ๐Ÿ™‚

      1. Let’s get the remember me function working before we get all happy with the new features.

  41. I took a shit in Reason’s new format once.

  42. For some very perverse reason, I really really want to hear M. Moore’s opinion of the Polanski arrest.

    Michael “More to Love” Moore: fat but not fat-fat

  43. I don’t get why Michael Moore, Tom Morello, etc, haven’t been living in Canada for years. This ain’t a knee-jerk “Love It or Get Out!” line. But if there’s a very nearby English-speaking country that much more closely fits your poticial and social ideals… why not? Windsor or Sarnia, Ontario is merely an hour’s drive from Flint (er, Davidson).

    The likes of Moore are rich and influential enough to ‘make things happen’ and emigate there more easily than your average person.

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