Barack Hussein Bush

There's plenty of people on the left who still like Barack Obama, but the ones who don't like him are pissed. Case in point: David Swanson's new article, "Bush's Third Term? You're Living It."

Comments

[Mike in PA]

I doubt you'd get many on the left to see this. It's my team vs. your team to them.

I really doubt you'd get too many on the right to admit that Obama is an extension of Bush eith.

[Mike in PA]

er.

[JB]

Obama is Bush, but worse. 4x the deficit is 4x as bad in my book.

[Mister DNA]

The left will have a simple rebuttal for this: David Swanson is obviously a racist.

[Legate Damar]

That article could have used some editing down. Right next to the decisions of questionable legality and illegality were policy-only goals (worse yet, he won't renegotiate NAFTA) that seem like they only water down the argument that we now let the Executive do basically whatever the fuck he wants and yet the handful of threadbare rules left on the books still are routinely ignored.

I'm sure Swanson will be surprised to find out that he's actually been a racist all this time.

[John-David]

No kidding, Mike in PA. Someone on DKos started a discussion about it, and the entirety of the replies have been mostly pictures from FailBlog and other dismissive nastiness. They really don't have a clue that their messiah is no different from Bush in almost every substantive way.

[Warty]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[mitch]

I think I have already said this here, but we have to expect Obama to act quite like Bush; they are similar people in similar situations, it would be strange if Obama was acting radically different from Bush. They have the same objectives (stay in office, expand power of party) and face the same major obstacles (poor economy, terrorism) and so will use the same strategies.

[Richard Hoste]

You used Obama's middle name.

Racist.

[Episiarch]

I can't wait to see more Obamatrons become crushed as they realize that their idol is a piece of shit politician like any other. However, their most likely reaction (instead of facing reality) is vicious partisan denial, where they don't so much defend Obama as go after the other side with even greater vitriol.

TEAM RED TEAM BLUE RAH RAH RAH

[TrickyVic]

"""I doubt you'd get many on the left to see this. It's my team vs. your team to them."""

I doubt you would get many on the right to see it too. I haven't noticed any Bush supporters praising Obama's continuation of Bush's policies.

Like you said, team vs. team.

[twv]

I was enthusiastic about Obama before he decided to enter the presidential race, mostly for two reasons

1. He came out early against the Iraq War, and
2. He could speak intelligently and persuasively (didn't sound like a moron).

But as soon as he started campaigning, I could see the handwriting on the wall: The Left was in for a big, big fall. Obama had "disappointment" written all over him. His co-option by the centrist powers was to be expected, and he has continued to carry on illiberal big government policies since. Wow. Surprise.

Not even his apparently liberality regarding one psychoactive drug, marijuana, has amounted to much.

So of course he has carried on the centrist agenda, consolidating power and keeping the old scam of the American regulatory/redistributionist/warfare state viable for future exploitation by the various classes that get sucked into it.

After all, he's an old-time "liberal" (read: prodigal), and that ideology is ideally suited to keeping the scam going on and on.

[TrickyVic]

Epi, they are still in denial.

I actually heard an Obama supporter say Bush could get away with spending trillions and Obama gets crap for spending 100 million. I kid you not.

I still stand by my prediction that Obama's approval rating with be at most 39% by the end of the year.

[Warty]

Huyuk, if ah act all rayseest duh innernet'll think ah'm kewl!

Shut the fuck up, Dick Hoste.

[twv]

Uh, Mr. Hoste was surely being ironic.

[Warty]

Look at Dick Hoste's website. He can fuck himself.

[$]

2. He could speak intelligently and persuasively (didn't sound like a moron).

I've heard this about ten thousand times, but I've never heard Obama sound intelligent, persuasive, or not like a moron.

Tell me what I missed.

[Episiarch]

I actually heard an Obama supporter say Bush could get away with spending trillions and Obama gets crap for spending 100 million. I kid you not.

Vic, this is true, but I have seen the seeds of discontent starting to take root. They so badly want him to be what they thought he would be that they're clinging on, but their grip is slipping.

[Jaybird]

Hey, the Broncos are recovering from losing both John Elway and Mike Shanahan. We're rebuilding. This doesn't make the Raiders a good team. As a matter of fact, the Raiders suck. The losses the Broncos will be facing, if any, will be due to the necessary rebuilding period that inevitably and predictably follows the loss of a hall-of-fame quality asset (or two, or three).

Meanwhile, the Raiders still suck.

[Warty]

You lost John Elway ten years ago, you whiny prick. Try recovering from Romeo Crennel.

" I haven't noticed any Bush supporters praising Obama's continuation of Bush's policies."

Go read the National Review.

[Jaybird]

IT WAS FUCKING YESTERDAY WARTY!!! IT WAS YESTERDAY!!!

[SugarFree]

Look at Dick Hoste's website. He can fuck himself.

Without the "go" you seem to be suggest that he finally put the video up. [blork]

[SugarFree]

GODDAMN GERUNDS!

[Warty]

You go to hell and you die, SugarFree.

[Warty]

Whose law did you run afoul of, by the way? RC'z?

[Episiarch]

He ran afoul of Brannigan's Law.

[Warty]

You're the only man I've ever loved, Epi. I mean physically!

[robc]

I used to refer to the 2nd and 3rd terms of Bush/Clinton back during 90s.

Do the Dems have any ideas other than following up on what the previous Bush did?

[Art-P.O.G.]

He ran afoul of Brannigan's Law.

He walked among the creatures of the night?

[MayorOmalleySuxs]

I doubt you would get many on the right to see it too. I haven't noticed any Bush supporters praising Obama's continuation of Bush's policies.

A southpark republican isn't very far right, but just last night I remarked to my son that I thought Obama keeping Gates at DOD was the best thing he's done. I had feared he'd send an Aspin-like bag of hot air to DOD like Clinton did. BTW in my memory, only McNamara was worse than Rumsfelt (sp?).

[MayorOmalleySuxs]

2. He could speak intelligently and persuasively (didn't sound like a moron).

I've heard this about ten thousand times, but I've never heard Obama sound intelligent, persuasive, or not like a moron.

I sort of agree with you. Each individual sentence that comes out of Obama's mouth is well crafted and every word is pronounced correctly. However, when the guy stops talking I have to scratch my head and think to myself, "What the hell did that mean?"

I contrast that to GW Bush. Bush's accent knocked 20% off his IQ, he mangled words and sentences. But, at the end you understood what he was trying to convey. One may not like what he had to say, but one understood what his point was. I know I often disagreed with Bush.

[SugarFree]

"Brannigan's Law is like Brannigan's love: hard and fast."

This is my ringtone.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Damn, screwed up the Laura Branigan reference. The correct lyric is, "I live among the creatures of the night/I haven't got the will to try and fight."

Memory's a treacherous thing, but I'm still pretty sure legwarmers were involved.

[Richard Hoste]

Why would my arguments for the gold standard offend anyone? Can't we talk about these things rationally?

[SugarFree]

Memory's a treacherous thing, but I'm still pretty sure legwarmers were involved.

Don't make fun. Calves were very cold in the 80s.

[John]

Perhaps Bush wasn't an insane war monger or stupid. There are no easy sollutions to problems. If the sollutions were easy, there wouldn't be problems. Obama and his supporters set themselves up for this by lying so much over the last 8 years.

The truth was that the things that Bush did while in some cases mistaken were not out of the historical norm. The deficits were large but not any larger per capita than they were in the 80s. The Patriot Act paled in comparison to US domestic policy during both the world wars and the cold war. Iraq was a long hard war, all wars are, but it was not Vietnam or Korea.

Yet, the Obama and his supporters kept screaming "worst President ever" and "Nazi" and pretending that the day would never come when they took power and had to face the same problems Bush faced. And low and behold is doing many of the same things.

[Tony]

Obama is Bush, but worse. 4x the deficit is 4x as bad in my book.

Really? So the amount of money a government spends is the only thing you factor into your assessment of it? Like it doesn't matter what the money's being spent on? Bombing Iraqi children, saving the economy, tomato tomahto. Amoral fuckwad.

[Tony]

What's striking are the continuities in American foreign and military policy, no matter who is in the White House. The first-term Obama foreign policy now looks increasingly like the second-term Bush foreign policy.

As long as Obama doesn't start his own wars of choice I think Swanson's characterization is a bit unfair. However, it is indeed striking how we can't seem to elect anyone willing to take on the military industrial/American imperial status quo to any significant degree.

[John]

"Bombing Iraqi children, saving the economy, tomato tomahto. Amoral fuckwad."

Now it is spent on bombing Pakastani children in drone raids. Considering Obama's esclation of the war in Afghanistan and his continueing of Bush's policies in Iraq, you might want to I don't know shut the fuck up.

And since when is paying off Gaitner and Paulson's buddies at Goldman Sachs, saving the economy?

[John]

"As long as Obama doesn't start his own wars of choice I think Swanson's characterization is a bit unfair. However, it is indeed striking how we can't seem to elect anyone willing to take on the military industrial/American imperial status quo to any significant degree."

I think putting 60,000 more troops into Afghanistan and stepping up operations accross the Pakistani boarder counts as starting a whole new war. Johnson, didn't start Vietnam, but it was still his war in the end.

[Citizen Nothing]

John, John, John.
Do you go to the zoo and argue with the chimps?

[wayne]

Bombing Iraqi children,

Tony, you are a fucking moron.

[Gunboat Diplomacy]

"Don't make fun. Calves were very cold in the 80s"

When the neighborhood kids are all saggin' their oversized shorts I think of 80's leg warmers. Oh, and Stepin Fetchit without the historical rewrite.

[John]

I am an a terrible troll feeder Citizen Nothing.

[Gunboat Diplomacy]

SHUT THE FUCK UP TONY.

[Citizen Nothing]

What I'd really love to see is the simian defense of AgitpropaGate on the thread above.

[David Swanson]

yes shocked to learn of my racism
whether you like nafta or not, obama committed to changing it and now won't
would love to hear your opinions on this:
http://tr.im/xBt3

david

[Citizen Nothing]

Oh, jeez. I realize I just compared an Obama supporter to a chimp. I guess I've outed myself as a racist, too.

[Warty]

simian defense

Do you really want to summon Steve Smith?

[brotherben]

Ya'll know me as an Obama supporter. The thing I am most disappointed in is his weakness. I thought he was another monster at politics like Bill Clinton. A little raw still but a very quick study. I was wrong. It is painful to watch because the thing I like the most about D.C. is the game. I am jaded to the point that I don't care much about what the congress does because caring is useless. Their gonna do what they want in concert with what big business and special interests want. The politics of politics is what holds my interest.

[bookworm]

"Bombing Iraqi children, saving the economy"

Obama is bombing Iraqi, Afghani, and Pakistani children, but he isn't saving the economy. Even if we have a temporary improvement in the economy due to the stimulus or due to a natural market improvement unrelated to the stimulus, the stimulus will create inflation down the road and will bring about another recession.

[Marshall Gill]

Can't we talk about these things rationally?

Considering the fact that you are a flaming racist it is not believed that you can. Go back to Stormfront.

[Tony]

Of course you guys would be frothing at the mouth all the more if Obama actually were the great liberal hope he was made out to be. There's absolutely nothing he could do to please libertarians because libertarians thrive on bitching about the government no matter what it does, and nothing but erasing the 20th century and returning to your version of a mythical long-lost utopia would satisfy you.

One wonders how long you're gonna play this false equivalence game between the right and left, as if nobody on the left is criticizing him even when it's staring you right in the face.

[Warty]

One wonders how long Tony will fail to shut the fuck up.

[alan]

Damn, screwed up the Laura Branigan reference. The correct lyric is, "I live among the creatures of the night/I haven't got the will to try and fight."

Memory's a treacherous thing, but I'm still pretty sure legwarmers were involved.

I still got a hell of a laugh out of that one though.

[Tony]

One wonders how long Tony will fail to shut the fuck up.

Keep wondering. Hold your breath while you're at it.

As long as people claiming ownership of this libertarian board continue to spout bullshit as if Frank Luntz were whispering it in their ears in bed I'm not gonna cede the concept of liberty to you people.

[SugarFree]

Trolls never quit, Warty.

[Warty]

As long as people claiming ownership of this libertarian board continue to spout bullshit as if Frank Luntz were whispering it in their ears in bed I'm not gonna cede the concept of liberty to you people.

Magnificent. More! More!

[Gunboat Diplomacy]

I just see his name and skip the words. Why read stupid?

[bookworm]

"There's absolutely nothing he could do to please libertarians"

I'd be perfectly happy if his economic views were more like Thomas Sowell's.

[Groovus Maximus]

I'm not gonna cede the concept of liberty to you people.

Tony, you are an Ozombie; you ceded your liberty (along with your soul) a LONG time ago.
Like Axelrod isn't French kissing your earlobes!

And STFU!

[Warty]

GD, because there is occasionally a laughably tortured simile or some spectacular self-congratulation tucked in his gibberings. You have to do the panning if you want to find the gold, after all.

[Groovus Maximus]

A bit more than panning Warty, think like drilling for oil or gas (no entendre intended, yuck!)

[brotherben]

Like Axelrod isn't French kissing your earlobes!

I never cared much for G-n-R. (I did like slash's work on November Rain)

[mark]

and nothing but erasing the 20th century and returning to your version of a mythical long-lost utopia would satisfy you.

Not true. He could have vetoed Cash for Clunkers, for instance, and I might have thought he knew something about economics. He could have continued some, any, free trade deal and I would have kept the faith. His "green jobs" BS will still screw America long term but even some short term economic competence would be much appreciated.

[mark]

And brotherben, I have seen some bad game-playing, what with [e-mail] and all, but generally I think the WH is playing politics rather well. The public option, for instance, has served as a pretty good red herring that will help to pass some kind of health care "reform" this year.

[Dr Stigmatus Freud]

As long as people claiming ownership of this libertarian board continue to spout bullshit as if Frank Luntz were whispering it in their ears in bed I'm not gonna cede the concept of liberty to you people.

You have to have been living in a cave the past one hundred years not to see that the word 'liberal' is devoid of its meaning and intent due to the policies and ideology you and your fellow progressive uphold. But then you realize that, and know as well 'Libertarian; is its only legitimate replacement, or else where does this compulsive need to justify yourself to us come from?

[TrickyVic]

"""They so badly want him to be what they thought he would be that they're clinging on, but their grip is slipping."""

The same can be said for the Bush followers. If we were an intelligent society, we would have learned the importance of letting go.

"""Now it is spent on bombing Pakastani children in drone raids. Considering Obama's esclation of the war in Afghanistan and his continueing of Bush's policies in Iraq, you might want to I don't know shut the fuck up."""

Bush was spending money in Afghanistan so it's not, "Now it's" it's has been. This isn't new.

How much ecaslation has be done on Obama's watch so far? Not much, yet. We'll see what the General says and if Obama give him the OK.

"""I think putting 60,000 more troops into Afghanistan and stepping up operations accross the Pakistani boarder counts as starting a whole new war."""

You might want to take another look at your source. Obama, so far has added troops to bring the level up to 60,000.

It became Obama's war as soon as he was sworn in.

[Tony]

I have a compulsive need to tell people capable of independent thought why they are wrong. I hate arguing with people who agree with me. I have held my interlocuters here mostly in good faith that they are capable of independent thought, and very unfortunately there is not another right-wing blog out there where that is even remotely the case.

[John]

All True Tricky. But, Obama has in those cases either followed Bush's line or marked his own trail by increasing US involvement. We are more involved in Afghanistan now than we were a year ago.

For the record, I am not sure if that is a bad thing. I supported both wars under Bush and I will continue to support them under Obama. But, I think the no blood for oil crowd has a hell of a lot of explaining to do.

[MNG]

Dr. Freud

The history of liberalism is one of trying to emancipate the individual from various oppressions on him from institutions. Perhaps classical liberals thought the only institution that the individual needed protection from was the state. But that idea started to expand to other institutions pretty quickly. Liberals pretty early on began to call for a "devils bargain" with the state to protect individual autonomy from non-state institutions like the community or family or "society" (read On Liberty to see how far back this goes, Mills concern with how social opinion alone can oppress individuality). It further started to think of protecting autonomy from conditions (like poverty and sickness) which might be thought to undermine it.

[John]

Tricky Vic.

My sources in the National Guard tell me that the plan is to add 60K more than is already there. They plan to rely heavily on Guard Bridages.

[MNG]

For me I'm not going to hold it against Obama to try to clean up Bush's two wars in the best way possible, but if he starts any on his own, then I'm pissed.

But I'm pretty pissed at him for not going with the promise to stop the raids in CA...

[Tony]

But I'm pretty pissed at him for not going with the promise to stop the raids in CA...

Agreed. The biggest thing that annoys me about Obama is his steadfast refusal to 'elevate and educate.' Republicans have been good at shifting the national consensus toward their side for a long time. Obama has only managed to ostensibly effect a change in the national conversation on issues such as race, where he tends to position himself as above the fray, rather than getting into a real debate about why liberal policies are better for people. I think a lot of people feel that they thought they were getting a Roosevelt but got a Clinton instead. He has said some good things, such as it's not the size of government that's the issue but its effectiveness, but most often he gives the other side undue credibility by playing the nice guy in the middle who wants everyone just to get along. But then I never thought we were getting a Roosevelt and could see his Clintonian impulses long ago. Ironically I thought Hillary Clinton would be more of a liberal reformer.

[Tony]

I mean he's gonna cave on end-of-life counseling. True, it's minor, but should he really have to defend such a commonsense measure by saying "there won't be death panels" instead of just saying what it is and why it's good?

[robc]

I'm not gonna cede the concept of liberty to you people.

Fuck off, slaver.

[robc]

MNG,

For me I'm not going to hold it against Obama to try to clean up Bush's two wars in the best way possible

Why not? There was a REPUBLICAN candidate who promised to bring the troops home. That was the best way possible.

[robc]

there is not another right-wing blog

This isnt a right-wing blog you moron.

[Isaac Bartram]

...they thought they were getting a Roosevelt but got a Clinton instead.

We should be so lucky. I don't remember Clinton running up trillion dollar deficits.

I hoped we'd get another Clinton. Instead we got some horrific FDR/Harry Truman/LBJ/BushII chimera with, if the penchant for mendacity continues, a little bit of Nixon as well.

[robc]

I knew Obama was going to be an absolute economic disaster, but I at least held out some HOPE that he might CHANGE things on civil rights in a positive way. That his administration wouldnt be a complete disaster in all possible ways.

Of course, I voted for the 'stache, so none of it is my fault.

[robc]

Isaac,

I think LBJ is the best single comparison. But, it might turn out to be Nixon instead.

Hmmm...now that I think about it, Bush was a lot like LBJ...got us into a stupid war, expanded social programs (medicare, TARP)...so maybe Obama will be like Nixon. Continues the war, makes really stupid economic decisions, corrupt administration (see the NEA thread). Nixon was a better bowler.

[brotherben]

whatever. Bowling's a retarded sport anyway.

[TrickyVic]

"""My sources in the National Guard tell me that the plan is to add 60K more than is already there. They plan to rely heavily on Guard Bridages."""

So you are giving Obama credit for a rumor?

Most scuttlebutt is wrong. But until, it happens, it hasn't happened.

Obama will probably give the General what he wants. Reports are saying 45,000 but I would classify that as rumor too.

I wonder if the rightwing will support him.

[wayne]

Obama has only managed to ostensibly effect a change in the national conversation on issues such as race, where he tends to position himself as above the fray...

He did that real well with his "stupid cops" remark. Go team blue!

[Tony]

I don't remember Clinton running up trillion dollar deficits.

I don't remember Clinton inheriting an economy in depression mode.

There's plenty of people on the left who still like Barack Obama

fix'd

[BakedPenguin]

I don't remember Clinton inheriting an economy in depression mode.

No, he got one that was in a recession, just like Obama. Unlike Obama, he was smart enough not to fuck up and make it much, much worse.

Also, since this is respond to moron troll day, if Obama had done anything remotely libertarian as he promised, some people here (besides you) would be pointing that out. I, for one, would be happy to say "well, at least he kept his word about Medical Marijuana raids stopping" or "at least he kept his word about open government" or "at least he kept his word about getting us out of Iraq" or "at least he completely and unequivocally ruled out torture as an option" or - and you might want to re-read this one, Tony, "at least he stood firmly for gay marriage".

But I can't say any of that. Do you know why, you wretched asshat? Because Obama is a fucking lying shitbag politician who'll whore out any and every principle to expediency, knowing full well there are TEAM BLUE RAH RAH retards like yourself who'll back him all the way. Now shut the fuck up and go get your pom poms you fucking douchebag, because the news is coming on, and you're gonna want to cheer your hero some more.

[Dr Stigmatus Freud]

Liberals pretty early on began to call for a "devils bargain" with the state to protect individual autonomy from non-state institutions like the community or family or "society" (read On Liberty to see how far back this goes, Mills concern with how social opinion alone can oppress individuality). It further started to think of protecting autonomy from conditions (like poverty and sickness) which might be thought to undermine it.

There is a definitive trajectory to the policies of liberals from Fischer/Keynesian inflationary macroeconomics, Social Security, rent control, HMO Act, Medicare, all forms of regulatory bureaucratic schemes, public housing and redevelopment, and that is to place autonomy outside the reach of the people.

[Dr Stigmatus Freud]

Correction: Fisher

[Isaac Bartram]

I don't remember Clinton inheriting an economy in depression mode.

How convenient for you. What the fuck do you think "it's the economy, stupid" was all about?

Yeah, of course, that was no more a depression than this is. But that's never stopped politicians from demogoguing.

See, Tony, this is why it's so easy to dismiss you. Not only are you opinions wrong but your facts are too.

[Tony]

Are you people trying to tell me that the economy Clinton inherited was comparably bad as the one Obama inherited?

I know libertarians do never let facts get in the way of ideology, but come on.

[Bill Clinton]

I inherited the worst economy since Herbert Hoover. Everybody knows that. Why are people trying to deny that fact?

[Bill Clinton]

I campaigned on it for crimmeny sakes, and this, this intellectual midget is trying to deny it?

You are lucky I didn't pull a Bush or an Obama (Bush SuperSized!) with huge deficit spending on useless public programs (my wife bent my arm on that one thing, but I knew it wasn't going anywhere), but I decided to pay it out instead, or else the American people would still in the tank. I maybe a bit liberal but I'm not an idiot who would actually buy into the shitscreed.

[BakedPenguin]

Hey Tony:

I, for one, would be happy to say "well, at least he kept his word about Medical Marijuana raids stopping" or "at least he kept his word about open government" or "at least he kept his word about getting us out of Iraq" or "at least he completely and unequivocally ruled out torture as an option" or - and you might want to re-read this one, Tony, "at least he stood firmly for gay marriage".

RSVP, unclefucker. Tell us how great he is at keeping promises.

[JB]

Really? So the amount of money a government spends is the only thing you factor into your assessment of it? Like it doesn't matter what the money's being spent on? Bombing Iraqi children, saving the economy, tomato tomahto. Amoral fuckwad.

Ah, someone let the retarded troll out of his cage. Guess what? Obama is worse than Bush in about every way. I know it hurts your vagina to hear it, but the truth often hurts your vagina.

[Groovus Maximus]

Bowling's a retarded sport anyway.

Why do you hate the Special Olympics?

If you hate the Special People, would you be a Specialist?

[Michael Ejercito]

Having read articles on Usenet, I remember peoeple claiming that President Clinton fixed the economy by reducing the deficit.

Obama is doing the opposite ; I wonder what result those people would expect.

[brotherben]

Dr. Maximus, actually, I don't like people. I am a humanist.

[Isaac Bartram]

Are you people trying to tell me that the economy Clinton inherited was comparably bad as the one Obama inherited?

Well, Clinton "inherited" an "economy" that had been in recession about a year before the election and was well on it's way to recovery. He had the good sense to leave things alone with nothing more than a token tax increase to please the base and a modest transportation bill to satisfy the unions. In this way he pretended to "do something" while the rest of us went about our business.

Obama inherited an "economy" in which a bunch of stupid people had taken out loans they couldn't afford to pay back and a bunch of rich people (who were also stupid) made a lot of bad investments. Instead of letting the stupid people (both sets) be foreclosed on or forced into liquidation of bad assets he followed his (stupid) predecessor's policy of bailing out said stupidity. Indeed he expanded the policy of letting preferred interest groups loot the treasury by admitting the unions who had bankrupted the domestic car makers.

Nope, no comparison.

Like I said, we should be so lucky as to get another Clinton.

By the way, see how Tony changed the thrust of his argument. When he first brought hinm up Clinton was a "bad guy", but then later, he became a "good guy".

As long as it's a democrat, Tony will put on his kneepads and go down and do his duty just like all the feminists said they'd do for Clinton.