Well, His Shirt Was White…

Arizona Republic

The social construction of the brownshirt menace, chapter DXXIII:

On Tuesday, MSNBC's Contessa Brewer fretted over health care reform protesters legally carrying guns: "A man at a pro-health care reform rally…wore a semiautomatic assault rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip….there are questions about whether this has racial overtones….white people showing up with guns." Brewer failed to mention the man she described was black.

Comments

[Tomcat1066]

Never let the facts get in the way of pontification, especially when you can scream racism!

[skr]

Pfft. Facts, you can proof anything with facts.

[skr]

err prove. need more coffee

[Citizen Nothing]

Hahahahah! How the fuck did morons come to rule the world?
Oh, wait. Right. Democracy.

[Nick]

Failed to mention? She basically called him a cracker.

[Stretch]

It probably is racial. Obama is half-white you know.

[John]

She got the narative right. It was the facts that were wrong. Also, we all know any black person who is not a leftist is not a real black person.

[brotherben]

Christ all Mighty, It's worse than I thought, It's a Black man with Guns. Holy Shit!

[semm]

They cropped his head out of the shot so all you could see was the gun. The average viewer would have no idea that it was a black man and what Brewer was saying made no sense. Pretty crazy

[Forbes]

It's all about the narrative. Welcome to post-modern America...

[Citizen Nothing]

We are about to hit the singularity of stupidity.

[Citizen Nothing]

And what WILL happen when infinite computing power is meshed with infinite human stupidity?

[Citizen Nothing]

Accelerando meets Idiocracy. Should be wild.

[Brother Mouzon]

The scariest thing in the world is a nigger with a library card.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

MSNBC?

[Neu Mejican]

Didn't see this exact bit of coverage, but I did see several other reports. Are you sure she was describing this guy? It's not like he was the only one there who "wore a semiautomatic assault rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip."

I mean, if we are gonna stick to the facts, it would be important to know that one.

[N****R WITH AN ABRHAMS M-50]

Really, are you sure?

[Mango Punch]

I'm not sure which member of N.W.A. spit this lyric, but it seems poignent to the topic:

"And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop"

[Fluffy]

Didn't see this exact bit of coverage, but I did see several other reports. Are you sure she was describing this guy? It's not like he was the only one there who "wore a semiautomatic assault rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip."

I mean, if we are gonna stick to the facts, it would be important to know that one.

Search for the clip on YouTube.

They cropped the image so it focused only on the guy's back, shirt and the weapon itself. The voiceover talked about the scary specter of armed white racists at rallies.

The report absolutely, positively did exactly what Jesse is claiming it did. This guy had the most telegenic gun, you see. So by the iron laws of television, they had to use it. But his race didn't fit the story, so they made sure you couldn't see he was black.

[Fluffy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYKQJ4-N7LI

[Citizen Nothing]

Jesus, Neu. Did you even click on the link? If you look at the footage, it's obvious that it was edited to show just the gun, white shirt and no skin. Now check out the AZ Republic photo, kindly posted at the top of this post, from the same meeting. It surely seems to be the same gun, carried the same way, over the same shirt.

You make the call, baby.

[brotherben]

I just watched the linked video. The man in question has a rifle with at least some wood on top of the barrel and his pistol is in a nylon holster on his right hip. It isn't this balck man with the all nylon rifle stock and pistol in leather holster on his left hip.

[Citizen Nothing]

Or what Fluffy said.

[Citizen Nothing]

Or maybe what brotherben said.

YOu make the call.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm sorry, it's racism if you oppose the administration, regardless of your race.

[Sean Healy]

It is possible to carry firearms legally AND intend to intimidate people with them. It is also possible to be black AND white. I'm pretty sure some H&R commenters were fond of this ploy when our president was merely a candidate.

[Johnny Longtorso]

It isn't this balck man with the all nylon rifle stock and pistol in leather holster on his left hip.

Two men w/ the same shirt and slacks, and similar rifle/pistol show up at the same rally, and it just so happens that they

1. Film the white one

and

2. Manage to never show any uncovered skin?

[Citizen Nothing]

Rewatching the video, I now see that the weapon IS being carried differently than the way it's being carried in the still. Calling all gun nuts! Calling all gun nuts!!
What's the verdict? Same guy/weapon?

[brotherben]

I don't think it's the same guy. I do, however, think it is the height of douchebagginess to craft such a sensationalist story from a non-event. John said the other day(I think it was John) that the msm is doing all sorts of these kinds of stories to be on the front end of the bragging rights if something actually does happen to Obama.

[Neu Mejican]

Let's see...pants and shirt are similar, but the color seems different. That doesn't solve it because of the issues of lighting and what not...

Can't see the right hip of the man pictured above to determine if brotherben's observations about the pistol solves the question.

The rifle?

You decide.

[Citizen Nothing]

I said gunnuts brotherb. The modifier is important.

[brotherben]

I know that these fellas were well within their rights to carry openly at these events. I think that in light of the atmosphere at many town hall events that doing it is not particularly wise. It makes it way too easy for your exercise of rights to become ammunition for the scaredy cats on the left.

Just because it's legal for me to sit outside the funeral of a soldier killed in Iraq with a sign reading "God Hates Fags" doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[Neu Mejican]

brotherben,

I concur.

Much ado about nothing.
Both the rally. And the outrage here about the reaction to the rally.

[Scott]

Mango - I believe that's Ice Cube on "Gangsta Gangsta."

Does anybody feel that now, more than ever, we truly are living in a 1984-esque world where up is down? Where politicians who claimed to support dissent then squash it? Where companies that are bankrupt get bailed out and companies that make profits are persecuted? Where the politicians and media constantly race-bait and then call protesters racist? Or is it just me?

[Citizen Nothing]

Amen, brotherb.
Still, I must admit it's a hoot watching the gun-phobes wet themselves.

[Citizen Nothing]

Neu, you're just one cool cat. You should get a job with George Mitchell.

[Pro Libertate]

Looks awfully similar to me. I also wonder why they went so far out of their way to not even show the guy's hands--the camera jerked down once it got up that high.

What the fuck is wrong with the media? It's the guys controlling the big guns we have to worry about, not some random armed citizen. What is the point of reporting on politics at all if you're going to pick a side and perform cheerleading when that side is in power?

I think carrying a gun is pretty provocative, but I'm not sure I think it's a totally bad idea. A few more administrations (and Congresses) like the current and last one, and some of those citizens will be firing those guns. We're getting awfully close to a government without real limits. Maybe something like this will make our "leaders" think long and hard about our tolerance for tyranny. Even tyranny wrapped up in a nice baby blanket.

[brotherben]

NM, I was calling the news people douchebags. The whole sniveling "bad economy, black man in the whitehouse, people are scared" tune is disgusting. I don't know anyone down here that is railing against Obama just because he's black. And I know some twisted cats.

[PR]

the man in the video doesn't have a holster on his right hip and there is no wood shown.

[Lamar]

But....but....he wasn't totally acting white!

[Citizen Nothing]

I don't know anyone down here...

You're not in hell already, are you brotherb?

[Mike M.]

I wish that liberal media weenies would learn that there is no such thing as a "semiautomatic assault rifle". They obviously have no idea how stupid they sound when using such a term.

[Homer Simpson]

Facts are meaningless: You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts, shmacts.

[Seward]

brotherben,

Wise or not, sometimes the exercise of rights is controversial and that by itself is an important reason to exercise them. Flag burning, ripping up draft cards, wearing provocative statements on t-shirts, etc. all come to mind. Indeed, open carry is as much a speech issue as is burning a flag IMHO.

Neu Mejican,

So is the reaction to the rally also much ado about nothing?

[Neu Mejican]

PR,

Indeed, no right hip holster.

[Neu Mejican]

seward,

Yes.

[brotherben]

[brotherben]

here is a video proving that it's the black man.

I stand corrected for my bad eyesight. Apologies.

[libertymike]

brotherben-

I'd work on the analogy you offered in your 11:00 am post.

[PR]

I'll tell you the main reason it's the same guy. If it were some white guy, there would video and photos of him readily available.

[Neu Mejican]

brotherben,

Much better.

Jesse should have done at least that much leg work.

[libertymike]

Pro Lib-

Do you consider cops carrying guns provocative? If not, why not?

[James Ard]

PR's point makes legwork unnecessary.

[Neu Mejican]

libertymike,

Don't ask don't tell?

[DanD]

That guy is awesome and that rifle is sweeeeet.

That's all I have to say about that.

[Neu Mejican]

James Ard | August 20, 2009, 11:27am | #
PR's point makes legwork unnecessary.

Jesse's post is, essentially, a criticism of lazy journalism...no?

[Warty]

Only one gun pedant showed up to mention that there's no such thing as a semi-auto assault rifle. That's impressive.

[Nick]

When I challenge Schumer for his Senate seat I'm coming to you guys to get my gun facts straight so I can make him look like a dumbass.

[PR]

Jesse should have done at least that much leg work.

In spite of all his shiftlessness, at least Jesse didn't get it backwards.

I think attributing this to laziness is generous.

[James Ard]

If by lazy you mean dishonest then I guess so.

[The Angry Optimist]

Neu, for Chrissakes just admit you were wrong.

[Seward]

Neu Mejican,

There was nothing lazy about what Jesse Walker's comment. And it really is more than issue of lazy journalism, isn't, it? Anyone with half a brain can see that.

[The Angry Optimist]

When I challenge Schumer for his Senate seat I'm coming to you guys to get my gun facts straight so I can make him look like a dumbass.

Yo, dawg, you don't need us for that. Chuck Schumer speaks for himself.

Chuck Schumer's continued political tenure is indictment enough of his constituents.

[Neu Mejican]

Here's my point made more clearly.

Since the video shown and the words spoken were controlled by different individual's and it is unclear if the speaker knew whether or not the video shown was the same individual she was referring to, we don't know for sure that she was at all aware of the black man with the gun.

If she wasn't, that is because she's a lazy journalist. Lazy journalism, whether on a blog posting (just linking to NB) or editorializing about an event without knowing the facts, is worthy of criticism.

But "the facts" are not always so easy to determine. Journalists should work harder to establish them.

Of course, Jesse is not a journalist, per se, so he may get a break. If your goal is to create a narrative that supports a particular viewpoint, you will be less worried about the veracity of a claim.

[JB]

Contessa Brewer = stupid cunt.

Definitely a fetus in need of a medical procedure.

[James Ard]

Neu, I think you've showed your ass enough on this post. Please move along.

[Pro Libertate]

libertymike,

It's a strong statement that I'm not sure is entirely relevant or helpful to this particular debate, except in the general "Don't tread on me" sense, which I'm okay with.

I think it's good to freak out the establishment from time to time, especially in a peaceful manner.

Oh, and yes, I think the idea that cops can carry guns and wield them willy-nilly while common folk aren't supposed to is a little contrary to a free society. Mike Vick got locked up for killing dogs.

[Neu Mejican]

The Angry Optimist | August 20, 2009, 11:34am | #
Neu, for Chrissakes just admit you were wrong.

Please identify the assertion you feel I made that was in error and I will readily admit that I was wrong, if I was.

[J sub D]

"A man at a pro-health care reform rally...wore a semiautomatic assault rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip....there are questions about whether this has racial overtones....white people showing up with guns." Brewer failed to mention the man she described was black.

Hey Contessa, I have a news flash for you. People from all social and ethnic backgrounds own firearms for a wide variety of legitimate purposes.

I find it sad that there are those on both the left and the right who still wish to play the race game. Why the hell do alleged adults in the 21st goddam century still give a crap about how much melanin is in a person's skin?

Sheesh!

[The Angry Optimist]

you were wrong to question surety with which Mr. Walker wrote the post. He was right; you were wrong for doubting.

Especially irritating is that this is what you feel like dying on a hill about.

[Johnny Longtorso]

The reporterette may not have known exactly what video was showing, but SOMEONE at MSNBC took video that deliberately avoided showing that man's face or hands and showed it while the reporterette was complaining about white people.

Someone is lying.

[James Ard]

J sub, I doubt the bitch has any real feelings on the issue. She is just following the script that has obviously been given to almost all of the "reporters" in the MSM.

[brotherben]

I am a bit concerned that the news readers talking about the scary white people with guns apparently didn't think far enough ahead to see that the video they edited may show up uncut somewhere else. My IQ dropped a bit just thinking about it. (and I don't really have any extra to give)

[The Angry Optimist]

In other words, Neu, you are implying that Mr. Walker was wrong to be so sure that Contessa Brown was either mistaken or lying - you want to go on about something? let's go on about this blatant lying for the sake of framing a narrative that this is all "angry white dudes" from a mainstream "news" channel.

[Neu Mejican]

TAO,

I was wrong to question?

[AM]

And what WILL happen when infinite computing power is meshed with infinite human stupidity?

Trust me. You're not gonna like it.

[Neu Mejican]

In other words, Neu, you are implying that Mr. Walker was wrong to be so sure that Contessa Brown was either mistaken or lying - you want to go on about something? let's go on about this blatant lying for the sake of framing a narrative that this is all "angry white dudes" from a mainstream "news" channel.

I was criticizing JW for not establishing whether she was mistaken or lying...the interpretation that flows from those opposing facts are different.

In other words, you claim of "blatant lying" rests on an assumption, not a "fact."

[The Angry Optimist]

Neu - yes. But not for the reasons you think.

If I were to "innocently" "question" "Isn't it possible that, instead of institutional racism, black people really are more prone to criminality as a result of genetics and/or breeding?" that would make my agenda transparent.

you did the same kind of thing - you're missing the forest for the pedantic trees.

[The Angry Optimist]

In other words, you claim of "blatant lying" rests on an assumption, not a "fact."

Do you have a rational explanation as to why the film was so heavily cropped?

you are right, I don't have her here to interrogate, but I can draw commonsense inferences - this was a lie.

[brotherben]

You're not in hell already, are you brotherb?

South Alabam. Close enough to smell the brimstone.

[sage]

The reporterette may not have known exactly what video was showing, but SOMEONE at MSNBC took video that deliberately avoided showing that man's face or hands and showed it while the reporterette was complaining about white people.

So the people watching MSNBC were duped. Both of them.

[phalkor]

I am currently in Wellesley, MA. I met several people last night who honestly believe no one should own or want to own a firearm for any personal reason, ever.

I am dumbfounded that such a sentiment exists and in some regions is actually quite popular. but to them I'm just a crazy redneck from Pennsyltucky. fascists.

[Neu Mejican]

TAO,

I think sage's post is the most scenario...but I doubt that the video edit and the editorial comments were coordinated intentionally. I think they were coincidental.

[Neu mejican]

most likely, that is.

[wingnutx]

The man in question has a rifle with at least some wood on top of the barrel and his pistol is in a nylon holster on his right hip. It isn't this balck man with the all nylon rifle stock and pistol in leather holster on his left hip.

That's not wood, it's the front cover of his Eotech sight reflecting the light. It's not visible from the angle of the photo at the top of this page. In the video you can't even see the stock due to the zoom.

That's not a pistol on his right hip, it's his sling, where it's attached to the rifle.

Look at a screen capture

The rifle is a Bushmaster Carbon-15. Note the unusual absence of an ejection port cover.

[15% of the GDP and Everybody\']

"There was nothing lazy about what Jesse Walker's comment. And it really is more than issue of lazy journalism, isn't, it? Anyone with half a brain can see that."

At least he's no a plagiarist like that Suderman fellow.

[James Ard]

strike through, They may all believe it, my point is that the storyline was generated in the White House and given to the minions for release.

[Jesse Walker]

All gun owners look alike to me.

(Seriously, I saw several photos and video clips of the guy, not just the one I posted. I didn't think there was any question that it was the same man.)

[Pro Libertate]

I think one of the problems with television news these days is the idea that everything has to have some sort of theme or "narrative." By thinking that way, journalists and editors bias the story and tend to twist facts (and images) to fit the narrative. That can be done for political purposes, but it can also be done to preserve other, less evident story lines.

[James Ard]

Neu, your accidental scenario would work, had the video guy not gone to so much trouble to obscure any skin. Are you really that gullable?

[15% of the GDP and Everybody\']

Someone mentioned yesterday that neu mostly debates how things are said as opposed to anything substantive. Hmmmmm....

[hmm]

1) Kudos for no "assault rifle" nonsense, but you have to assume it's semi-auto. I can't see the trigger mechanism, who knows maybe he has a class III and is toting a full auto or select fire. Why does it matter? (knit picky, I know)

2) Every black man, gay man, and women should carry a gun, (this isn't an evil white man statement)

3) Who gives a fuck what race the guy is?

4) If you're going to carry an AR15 for the love of god build something better than that. If you are going to accessorize a business outfit might as well do it right.

[15% of the GDP and Everybody\']

"South Alabam. Close enough to smell the brimstone."

That's not hell you're smelling. Just Port Sulphur, LA.

[Citizen Nothing]

Neu the diplomat. See if you can figure out the shape of the table we should be discussing this at, can you, Neu?

[The Ticktockman]

@ AM: Repent, Harlequin!

[Tony]

You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged conservative radio stunt, don't you?

Even so, the presence of a black person doesn't not mean there are no racists.

[Citizen Nothing]

You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged conservative radio stunt, don't you?
So MSNBC was punked on their own petard? That's priceless!

[John]

Jesse,

You missed the best part. According to Althouse today one of the comentators said leading into the clip

"I think we are going to see somebody, you know some sort of Squeeky Fromme, some sort of MARK HINKLEY figure."

You know Mark Hinkley. That evil creation combined Mark David Chapman and John Hinkley's DNA that Dick Cheney built in the basement of the VP's residence.

[Jesse Walker]

You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged conservative radio stunt, don't you?

It was "staged" only in the sense that any demonstration organized in advance is "staged." And the radio host is a libertarian, not a conservative.

Even so, the presence of a black person doesn't not mean there are no racists.

No one said it did. It does cut against the idea that all the opposition to Obama is driven by race hatred, though. And it certainly cuts against the idea that the man in the shot was an example of "white people showing up with guns."

[Citizen Nothing]

And remember, boys and girls. The presence of Tony on this forum doesn't mean there are no intelligent liberals.

[John]

So Tony they are now paying black people to show up at these things. What is that "Afro Turfing"?

[peachy]

Fair play to WGN, the first place I saw the story - their clip showed the entire guy.

[wingnutx]

You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged conservative radio stunt, don't you?

He was part of a group from a local shooting BBS that attended.

Community Organizing FTW!

[craig]

I'm becoming more and more glad that I didn't vote for the Obama ticket. The Democrat base is stoopid. They keep pushing the theme of the resentful southern white racist. But society has changed a lot since then. American society just isn't segregated anymore. Everybody knows interracial couples. And as this guy with shows, a black man can join a right-wing millitia.

[Tomcat1066]

You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged conservative radio stunt, don't you?

Who gives a flying fuck? He would obviously have had to LISTEN to the conservative radio host, right? That means his ideology leans in that direction already, and would probably have gone anyways...he just brought his rifle with him based on the "stunt".

And all the talk of "racial overtones....white people showing up with guns" was shown to be bullshit, since it wasn't all white people.

[Neu Mejican]

Someone mentioned yesterday that neu mostly debates how things are said as opposed to anything substantive. Hmmmmm....

Sometimes there is a substantive point to made about the way things are said.

Sometimes the substantive points discussed here are, well, pretty unsubstantive.

This post seemed to be about the narrative.

The focus on this one man seems to attempt to restrict the narrative to this one man.

Clearly the "white men with guns" narrative is worthless. The fact that this commentator fell for it to the extent that she did not even bother to find out the facts (that there were both black and white gun owners at the rally) is probably worth a discussion. The juxtaposition of the video with her comment is ironic, but does not point to the type of deliberate manipulation that James Ard is talking about. Jesse may or may not believe like James. He hasn't contributed his perspective here.

Jesse,
I like the "all gun owners" quip.

Do you think she deliberately manipulated the video to help her make a point?

Or do you think she's just cluelessly falling into the trap her inner narrative set for her?

[Tulpa]

The Angry Optimist | August 20, 2009, 11:34am | #
Neu, for Chrissakes just admit you were wrong.

Someone's setting themselves up for a long wait.

Neu Mejican is never wrong.

He's smarter, more muscular, and has better breath than any commenter here.

At least in his own head.

And he will remind you of that fact over and over again.

And you'll have to read it, as scrolling past a comment with a blank line between every sentence takes forever.

[Neu Mejican]

Citizen Nothing | August 20, 2009, 12:32pm | #
Neu the diplomat. See if you can figure out the shape of the table we should be discussing this at, can you, Neu?

For a virtual discussion, the table can conform to everyone's personal ideal shape. ;^)

[mediageek]

The reporterette may not have known exactly what video was showing, but SOMEONE at MSNBC took video that deliberately avoided showing that man's face or hands and showed it while the reporterette was complaining about white people.

Having worked a few news studios in my life, I can tell you that the anchors can see the video being aired because there is always a monitor sitting next to the studio camera that shows what is going out over the air. She knew exactly what was being shown.

[John]

"Everybody knows interracial couples. And as this guy with shows, a black man can join a right-wing millitia."

The real shock to dumb ass liberals is coming. At some point there is going to be a third party or the Republicans are going to find a way to show black people that they really don't hate them. At that point, guilty white liberals are going to get the shock of their lives and find out that black people are socially conservative as hell. I know a lot of black of black people. None of them are Republicans. They are all Democrats. But none of them believe in the welfare state and all of them believe in gun rights. Hell, a few of them are more country than my biggest redneck relatives. Guilty white liberals who have never lived in anything but segregated progressive communities and never actually known a black person head's are going to explode.

[Neu Mejican]

Tulpa,

I am wrong all the time. What's you beef?

[ransom147]

"Tony | August 20, 2009, 1:07pm | #

You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged conservative radio stunt, don't you?"

how many spontaneous protests have you ever been to? 4 or 5 people pre-planning to protest an event is staged?
stupid!

"Even so, the presence of a black person doesn't not mean there are no racists."

yhe idiocy of this statement is stunning. i don't hear anyone claiming "there are no racists". the discussion is whether the media attempted to obfuscate the man's race in an attempt to fuel the notion that race is even at issue. of course some people are motivated by race. but is the entire movement motivated by it? well i'm not; and i do not believe a majority are.

[ransom147]

coverage that was more "honest" -

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/obama.protest.rifle/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

[ransom147]

Neu Mejican | August 20, 2009, 1:42pm | #

Tulpa,

I am wrong all the time. What's you beef?

You're Wrong About That!!!!

[kool]

FWIW, the NWA lyrics are from Fuck tha Police, not Gangsta Gangsta.

[Pro Libertate]

NM,

Just to clarify, my "narrative" criticism wasn't purely directed at leftist journalists. In fact, it's not solely limited to politics. You see it frequently with local news and "My God, this regular product you've used for the last fifty years will fucking KILL YOU RIGHT NOW!"

[Neu Mejican]

Tulpa,

I

think

you

may

be

developing

an

unhealthy

obsession

with

my

posts.

[Pro Libertate]

NM,

Your post would've been more impressive if you'd nested each word within a blockquote tag.

[Neu Mejican]

Prolib,

I generally concur with the point. The level of the discussion on cable news, in particular, has very little to do with providing the facts about which a discussion can be held.

Olberman or Hannity...it's all the same and gets quite tiresome. For me the first sign that you are being sucked into one of these narratives is when a sentence starts with a phrase like...

"What liberals/conservatives don't realize is..."

[Kool]

Has there been a discussion on the over/under of when the "racist" chants will be understood as crap by the general populace and therefore will drop out of everyday usage by the MSM when refering to critiques of the President?

I'm thinking not too bloody soon.

[Jesse Walker]

Neu: I assume the host was following her own inner narrative. If anyone was being deceptive here, it would be whoever edited the video. (That's not an accusation -- there are perfectly inoffensive reasons why he, she, or they might have cut the clip off before the man's skin was visible.)

[Neu Mejican]

Prolib,

Your post would've been more impressive if you'd nested each word within a blockquote tag.

I

am

too

lazy

methinks

[P Brooks]

re: teh narrative

Black men with guns don't overthrow the government. They knock over Korean-owned liquor stores.

Duh.

[Neu Mejican]

ransom147 | August 20, 2009, 1:46pm | #
Neu Mejican | August 20, 2009, 1:42pm | #

Tulpa,

I am wrong all the time. What's you beef?

You're Wrong About That!!!!

I stand corrected.

[Neu Mejican]

Jesse,

Sounds like we are at about the same place on that.

[Pro Libertate]

That's why Gates invented cut and paste for his people.

I'm not keen on the blatant shills--Hannity is a good example on the right, even more than Limbaugh. But at least they're commentators, not news. Matthews and Olberman should've been fired for openly taking sides (some folks at Fox may be on this list, too). Either admit that your news service is totally biased or really try to be as objective as you can be. Claiming objectivity when you clearly have none is fatal to your network's credibility. Well, it should be fatal.

[John]

"I'm not keen on the blatant shills--Hannity is a good example on the right, even more than Limbaugh. But at least they're commentators, not news. Matthews and Olberman should've been fired for openly taking sides (some folks at Fox may be on this list, too). Either admit that your news service is totally biased or really try to be as objective as you can be. Claiming objectivity when you clearly have none is fatal to your network's credibility. Well, it should be fatal."

Exactly. It drives me nuts when liberals answer cases like this with "what about Rush". What about him. He is a radio entertainer. He never pretends to be anything but biased. That is his act. That is not the same as being biased but claiming your are just reporting the News.

Matthews should have been fired the day he said that he felt it was his patriotic duty to do everything he could to help Obama succeed. He really said that.

[Fluffy]

Matthews and Olbermann are not doing news shows. They're commentators who do talk shows. There is essentially no difference between Hannity's show and Olbermann's show in principle. So it's kind of dumb to say that you're fine with what Hannity does, but that Olbermann should be fired.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

A black man showing wood. Now that would be a threat!

"Hang on a minute while I whip this out".

[Neu Mejican]

I would say news shows on MSNBC and Fox both fail the "Claiming objectivity when you clearly have none" test more often than not.

[Neu Mejican]

And what Fluffy said.

[Pro Libertate]

Fluffy,

I believe both were doing news coverage of the election--not opinion pieces but news--and got kicked out of doing that because each exhibited biases too strong even for TV. In a sense, that counters my point above, but it only means that there's a limit to how open your bias can be. Having orgasms on air is apparently right out.

In any case, I'm just tossing names out. There are few journalists that don't fall prey to my "narrative" criticism. In TV especially, the temptation to "tell a good story" is too great to worry about facts or other perspectives.

[Neu Mejican]

I believe both were doing news coverage of the election--not opinion pieces but news--and got kicked out of doing that because each exhibited biases too strong even for TV.

Hannity did as much, if not more, "news" coverage of the election, iirc. Particularly during the conventions.

[alan]

It's all about the narrative. Welcome to post modern America America...

FTFY

[Neu Mejican]

Prolib,

But, I agree with you. The pressure to tell a good story comes out the worst in science reporting. The important studies are not the ones that make headlines. It is the ones that have a narrative punch.

[Pro Libertate]

Science reporting. Those words shouldn't even be allowed to be next to each other.

Like I said, Fox has a likely stable of sinners, too. I'm not being evasive--I just don't watch TV news, well, at all. I think I might watch the occasional rocket launch or terrorist attack on U.S. soil on the news, but nothing else.

[Neu Mejican]

Prolib,

Probably a good strategy.
I tend to watch to see what the narrative has become...but I don't have much endurance, I admit.

I do, often, wonder how many of the regulars around here see Reason and H&R as "objective news" rather than biased commentary. That goes both for the staff and the comment boards.

The mission of Reason makes it clear that they are providing a biased view; essentially providing persuasive discourse rather than objective reporting. But I am not sure everyone gets that...I see the same thing at HuffPo and similar places as well.

[Citizen Nothing]

I do, often, wonder how many of the regulars around here see Reason and H&R as "objective news"
Ah. Now I get it. Neu thinks we're all retards.

[Citizen Nothing]

Sorry -- wonders how many of us are retards.

[Pro Libertate]

Reason absolutely is biased, and I come here for that bias. They're selling a world view. However, within the limits of its free market and libertarian leanings, I think the magazine does try hard to work with the facts at hand.

For general news, I go to any number of sources, usually multiple ones. God bless the Intertubial Superhighway.

[Neu Mejican]

Citizen Nothing,

=/;^)

Yes, I AM more smug than you.

[Neu Mejican]

CN,

And, fwiw, I think it is clearly a minority...but a vocal one.

[Joshua Corning]

I remember a picture of Black Panther members holding shot guns....and it was an odd feeling..although i probably don't agree with many or most of the Black panthers stance on anything i did feel proud that these black Americans where carrying guns in the open.

[hmm]

The panthers march in formation with rifles and shotguns as recently as the early 2000s. Oddly no one seemed to care about that I think it got maybe one half a news cycle, or one cycle today.

For the record I openly admit and embrace my inner retard.

[John]

"I remember a picture of Black Panther members holding shot guns....and it was an odd feeling..although i probably don't agree with many or most of the Black panthers stance on anything i did feel proud that these black Americans where carrying guns in the open."

As long as my side can carry their rifles I don't really care. At most, it makes me think perhaps I need to get out of my lilly white progressive liberal neighborhood and go back to my redneck roots. I think the Panthers enjoy living and breathing a bit too much to ever turn those shotguns and rifles on people in the wrong neighborhood.

[Spice Master]

This is the same woman who called out the AZ GOP for using. . . a doctored photo that fit their agenda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4mIDFIy7b0

[Neu Mejican]

As long as my side can carry their rifles I don't really care.

Your side?

[Pro Libertate]

Oh, NM, he means the right. Don't be catty.

[Citizen Nothing]

Perhaps I own Neu an apology...

[Citizen Nothing]

Not that John is a retard. Not at all. But you must admit he spells like one...

[Neu Mejican]

Defining the "other side" from the perspective of a black panther.

The Ten Point Program was as follows:

1. We want power to determine the destiny of our black and oppressed communities' education that teaches us our true history and our role in the present day society.
2. We want completely free health care for all black and oppressed people.
3. We want an immediate end to police brutality and murder of black people, other people of color, and all oppressed people inside the United States.
4. We want an immediate end to all wars of aggression.
5. We want full employment for our people.
6. We want an end to the robbery by the capitalists of our Black Community.
7. We want decent housing, fit for the shelter of human beings.
8. We want decent education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society.
9. We want freedom for all black and oppressed people now held in U. S. Federal, state, county, city and military prisons and jails. We want trials by a jury of peers for all persons charged with so-called crimes under the laws of this country.
10. We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice, peace and people's community control of modern technology.

[Neu Mejican]

Citizen Nothing | August 20, 2009, 4:31pm | #
Perhaps I own Neu an apology...

Citizen Nothing | August 20, 2009, 4:32pm | #
Not that John is a retard. Not at all. But you must admit he spells like one...

Whose law was that? Joe'z? I forget...so many rules around here.

[Citizen Nothing]

RC's law, I believe. (I spell like a retard too, but I usually have editors to fix it.)

In other events concerning supposedly mixed-race presidents, some Warren Harding news be breakin'. Somebody got their hands on the sealed love-letters between Harding and Carrie Phillips. And supposedly there are WWI spying implications.
Anyhow, the book with all the low-down will be released Sept. 1. I'll be at the news conference and keep you posted.
Yes, I'm a history nerd.

[John C. Randolph]

The presence of Tony on this forum doesn't mean there are no intelligent liberals.

Indeed, some of them are quite clever little misanthropes.

-jcr

[Neu Mejican]

CN,

Isn't RC'z law that your spelling error will be more interesting than the word you were trying to spell?

Joe'z was that you will make an error whenever you call someone else stupid...

But maybe I am mis-remembering.

Yours might count as an example of both...

You own my apology, but are not willing to part with it? Or something.

[Pro Libertate]

Now you're being evasive. I don't think anyone on this planet views the BP as anything other than a leftist group. Their agenda was certainly broader than militantly fighting racism.

By BP, I mean British Petroleum, of course.

[Neu Mejican]

Pro lib,

Yeah, but you get to be the "other side" if you are...

1) a cop
2) a teacher
3) the government
4) a for profit doctor
5) a capitalist
6) non-oppressed

It seems a multitudinous beast.

[Tomcat1066]

"Defining the "other side" from the perspective of a black panther.

The Ten Point Program was as follows:
[SNIP]"

Basically, the other side is anyone who won't let them have that stuff.

Glad to know I qualify 😀

[Pro Libertate]

Say, point ten is pretty Marxist sounding. So are some of the other points, but "people's community control of technology?" I no likee.

I think I'm on the other side. Does that make me a racist?

[John]

"As long as my side can carry their rifles I don't really care.

Your side?"

I definitely on the other side from the panthers. They are a black supremicist organization.

[Lamarck\'s Giraffe]

First they came for Whole Foods, now they come for Arizona?

Arthur Frommer (travel writer/tool) is personally boycotting the state.
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PHXBeat/60783

[Citizen Nothing]

Fuck travel writers. Fuck them.

[wingnutx]

Fuck Arthur Frommer.

Open carry has been relatively common here for decades.

[ransom147]

az has no fear of boycotts w/ all the ca residents fleeing the hell hole they created...

[ransom147]

wingnutx | August 20, 2009, 5:14pm | #

Fuck Arthur Frommer.

Open carry has been relatively common here for decades.

true, though it is fun to watch all the freaks in tucson shit their pants when someone does it on scumtran...

[P Brooks]

I was previously unaware the DNC had adopted the Black Panther platform in toto.

[wingnutx]

Oleg Volk should do some photos of this guy.

[Neu Mejican]

John,

I definitely on the other side from the panthers. They are a black supremicist organization.

Thanks for clarifying.
So it is their racial stance that you place yourself in opposition to...

While I think it is accurate to call them a "racist organization," I don't think it is accurate to call them "supremacist."

[johnl]

A shame they went in for too tight a shot because the black man, white shirt, black gun is such a good picture. Do we know his name yet?

[The Libertarian Guy]

"You guys do know the black guy was part of a staged conservative radio stunt, don't you?

Even so, the presence of a black person doesn't not mean there are no racists."

Nobody with a brain would ever say "there are no racists". Someone without a brain WOULD say that "only whites can be racist", however.

As for your conspiracy theory above, I wonder if you think Joe the Plumber was a "plant" who schemed and plotted to be in his own neighborhood when Obama came by and got asked the uncomfortable question that should have been a HUGE derailment of Obama's career path.

[happyfeet]

She shouldn't have a job and she wouldn't it Jeffy Immelt's GE wasn't a diseased dirty socialist welfare whore.

[bagoh20]

It took careful editing to crop that video and the result is so tight that it ends up being a bad shot. A wider shot would always be wanted unless you are trying to hide the guy's skin. Unmistakable bias, someones head should roll if this is really a news organization. Of course we know it isn't.

[twistedmuser]

You sure the whole thing wasn't a taping of The Office? He sure looks like the black guy from corporate that tried to take over.

[egoist]

If they ban blacks with guns, only whites? will have guns... Well, that doesn't work.

[happyfeet]

oh. wouldn't *if* Jeffy Immelt's GE wasn't a diseased dirty socialist welfare whore I mean. I know what Jeffy Immelt really likes to do with those squiggly bulbs but I'm not telling you.

[greg]

looks like a normal guy to me!

[NYC Conservative]

Mystery solved!

Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuRPEKlxk6c&feature=related

You will see the fellow with the rifle from the same side as we see him in the MSNBC video. But in this one, we see his head, too. It is definitely the same man, and MSNBC deliberately did not show his head.

[John Skookum]

Open carry is "Piss Christ" in reverse.

[JB]

Frommer is a dickless bitch.

Hey Frommer, get the fuck out and move somewhere you will feel more comfortable like Canada or France. Your kind isn't wanted here.

[JAL]

This appears to be equal opportunity open carry.

Also equal opportunity "menace!"

But only the white guy get MSNed.

Sounds like discrimination to me.

[JAL]

Or is it affirmative action open carry?

Or both.

[Mark Truner]

Both rifles have the same model EoTech sight.

Same shirt, same slacks, same model rifle, same model sights.

The odds they are not the same individual are incredibly small.

Occams Razor=Same person.

[Mwalimu Daudi]

Even so, the presence of a black person doesn't not mean there are no racists.

Wow. Who wudda thunk it? A black person is now considered incontrovertible proof of white racism! Maybe the NAACP and all-black colleges are secretly KKK redoubts. Pretty clever!

It takes some serious hallucinating (aided by massive amounts of mind-altering drugs) in order to allow today's leftists to see racists under each and every bed.

[Mwalimu Daudi]

The presence of Tony on this forum doesn't mean there are no intelligent liberals.

Intelligent liberals, like moderate Republicans, are figments of the state-run media's imagination.

[JB]

Oh, Frommer please choose France so you can die in a heat wave you old fucker.

[Anna D]

Contessa Brewer is a profoundly silly TV news reader and moron. She has proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt over the last year.

[Rewrite!]

MSNBC and NBC have no shame.

[jimbob2000]

You can't trump the race card. It's wild!

[europeans]

Anna D:

"TV news reader"

nice distinction.

[Tom Perkins]

"Do you think she deliberately manipulated the video to help her make a point?

Or do you think she's just cluelessly falling into the trap her inner narrative set for her?"

I don't think there are any meaningful distinctions between the two concepts.

[David Singleton]

I was interested to note the gentleman pictured with his weapon did not suffer the same fate as Kenneth Gladney.

[harleycowboy]

Facts? We don't need no stinking facts!!! We got statistics.

[Blank Shirts]

Contessa Brewer needs to get her facts right.