Reductio ad Hitlerum: I See Nazis!

Yesterday, I puzzled over Rush Limbaugh's comparison of Obama's health care logo and the Nazi eagle. The subliminal fascism Limbaugh spotted, after being tipped by some weirdo blog, was just the caduceus, a common symbol for medicine. But when one is looking for Nazis, Nazis one tends to find.

Now, from the other side of the aisle, comes Congressman Brian Baird (D-WA), comparing those protesting ObamaCare townhall meetings to…just guess:

"What we're seeing right now is close to Brown Shirt tactics," Baird, D-Vancouver, said in a phone interview. "I mean that very seriously."

I bet he does. Just in case Baird is actually as dumb as I fear he is, he should be aware that in the first months after the Nazi seizure of power, according to historian Ian Kershaw, the SA disappeared 500-600 political enemies. Just like the Tea Party people!

And a bonus Nazi comparison from hack columnist Bill Press, who sees the "Nazi playbook" being employed by Obama critics  to "shut down discussion" about health care. How his syndicated column made it to press—with copy boys dodging the trudge and wedge of local Sturmabteilung activists; newspaper trucks smashing through fascist roadblocks—is a bleedin' miracle!

Taking a page right out of a Nazi playbook, organizers bus in professional protestors and arm them with instructions on how to take over meetings, shut down discussion, shout over any pro-health care reform speakers, and then post video of the resulting chaos on YouTube. It's mob rule, pure and simple.

Comments

[Not Krugman]

"It's mob rule, pure and simple."

Press is talking about the Democrat Party, right?

[Pro Libertate]

I heard that the recent violence in Tampa may have been incited by the supporters, not the protesters.

[Jeffersonian]

Good thing those goose-steppers never tried centralizing power in the hands of the central state.

[Jeffersonian]

Wouldn't be the first time, PL

[Johnny Longtorso]

And now I give you Andrew Sullivan, playing the "Protesters Calling Obamacare 'Fascism' are really admitting to be Fascists Themselves" suite in E minor:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/08/pelosi-wasnt-hallucinating-ctd.html

[joshua corning]

Yesterday, I puzzled over Rush Limbaugh's comparison of Obama's health care logo and the Nazi eagle. The subliminal fascism Limbaugh spotted, after being tipped by some weirdo blog, was just the caduceus, a common symbol for medicine. But when one is looking for Nazis, Nazis one tends to find.

You Puzzled and others told you Rush was making satire of Polozi swastica comments.

You might want to make a correction or you are guilty of doing exactly what you are accuseing Rush of doing.

[Pro Libertate]

Obviously, violence could come from any part of the political spectrum, but if acts are being incited, then blamed on the victims, I've got a problem with that. Naturally, the spin will be coming so hard from both parties that we'll likely never know the truth. Very frustrating.

[hmm]

Grass roots community organizer mad that communities are organizing?

I'm a little confused. I thought the liberal side of politics were the ones that were proud of their ability to organize community protests. Now they don't like the idea?

Fucking morons.

[P Brooks]

If Nazis had never existed, it would have been necessary to invent them.

[Jeffersonian]

NB for Excitable Andy

[hmm]

I heard that the recent violence in Tampa may have been incited by the supporters, not the protesters.

Here in STL SEIU is being accused of the violence 3 were arrested, one news photographer and one citizen taking pictures.

I posted links here.

[P Brooks]

What songs were they singing? This is important.

[hmm]

That is 3 SEIU people arrested.

[Gilbert Martin]

"You Puzzled and others told you Rush was making satire of Polozi swastica comments."

I'm sure it's just a oversight that he keeps leaving that part out of his narrative.

[Jeffersonian]

I used to practice baseball at that school, hmmm. Now John Sweeney's goons assault dissidents there.

[Johnny Longtorso]

The swasticas in the Sullivan link above show the protesters are calling the program Fascism, not marching in support of Facism.

[B.P.]

I want to see evidence of these busses.

[mark]

Why do I think these crowds will only grow, the more they are ridiculed by these pundits?

[*]

It's mob rule, pure and simple.

But of course a majority of the populace supporting robbery and enslavement of the minority to pay for health insurance or health care is civilized behavior - because they "took a vote." Sheeeit!

[Johnny Longtorso]

Why do I think these crowds will only grow, the more they are ridiculed by these pundits?

Publicity is publicity - if you didn't know they were happening, or thought showing up would do no good, now you know differently.

Be sure to take your Obama as Joker signs.

[Some Guy]

I think we need a name for the indirect Godwin. "[Whatever Group] is calling everyone who disagrees with them Nazis!"

Any suggestions?

[Tony]

Rush was making satire

Oh yes Rush is a regular Jonathan Swift. Such a "satirist" he is. Surely most of his followers see it as merely a clever bit of rhetorical turnabout, and none of them believe Obama is actually a fascist.

Wait a minute, half you guys here at reason believe he's a fascist, and you guys are supposed to be the thoughtful wingnuts!

[Johnny Longtorso]

Oh yes Rush is a regular Jonathan Swift. Such a "satirist" he is. Surely most of his followers see it as merely a clever bit of rhetorical turnabout, and none of them believe Obama is actually a fascist.

Those aren't mutually exclusive. You can recognize that one comment as satire AND consider Obama's economic policies fascist.

[EJM]

I See Nazis!

Ironically enough, I can't help but think of Sgt. Schultz.

[Brandybuck]

You Puzzled and others told you Rush was making satire of Polozi swastica comments.

As someone who has to work for a living, I don't often have time to read all of the news stories in a day. Sometimes I just scan the headlines to see if anything important has happened.

Thus yesterday I saw reason's headline, blurb, and image of the Obamuceus. Thus I ended up thinking that Rush was making a serious comparison between Obama and Hitler. Now I find out Reason was lying out their ass, and it was just a parody.

I hope Reason spends eternity in hell getting buggered by the ghost of William Randoph Hearst.

[hmm]

I used to practice baseball at that school, hmmm. Now John Sweeney's goons assault dissidents there.

Wasn't it at Bernard Middle School in Mehlville? My father-in-law has coached high school baseball in St. Louis for 20+ years. He still coaches, but not head coach.

I didn't see any buses at the one I attended. I did see a van full of SEIU t-shirts, maybe 5-6 people. That was the only large group I saw show up. There were what looked like groups of people that knew each other and hung out in small social groups. But nothing nefarious that I could see on either side.

[Andy Jawohl]

In the future everyone will be Hitler for 15 minutes

[Tony]

Limbaugh supports torture and indefinite detention. Why the fuck are libertarians rising to his defense on anything? Fucking wingnuts I swear.

[hmm]

The most annoying people seem to be the supporters and single payer people. Jesus they are smug and arrogant assholes. The pissed off fat old ladies are fun to watch as well.

[hmm]

Limbaugh supports torture and indefinite detention. Why the fuck are libertarians rising to his defense on anything? Fucking wingnuts I swear.

Obama openly supports one of those.

[brotherben]

They accuse us of being Nazis and Obama's got a health care logo that's right out of Adolf Hitler's playbook. Now what are the similarities between the Democrat Party of today and the Nazi party in Germany? Well, the Nazis were against big business. They hated big business and, of course, we all know that they were opposed to Jewish capitalism. They were insanely, irrationally against pollution. They were for two years mandatory voluntary service to Germany. They had a whole bunch of make-work projects to keep people working one of which was the Autobahn.

They were against cruelty and vivisection of animals but in the radical sense of devaluing human life, they banned smoking. They were totally against that. They were for abortion and euthanasia of the undesirables as we all know and they were for cradle-to-grave nationalized health care. I have always bristled when I hear people claim that conservatism gets close to Naziism. It is liberalism that's the closest you can get to Naziism and socialism.

This is a piece of the transcript from Ruch Limbaugh's website. It is a quote from Rush Limbaugh Himself. Not satire in my opinion.

[TheZeitgeist]

The Nazis are over-rated.

The Soviet Communists - especially Joseph Stalin's version of Soviet Communists - are the historical boogeymen worth studying.

The Nazis could merely get segments of German society into fear (Jews, gypsies, the outspoken).

The Commies could get the entire country into fear. Husbands fearing wives, sister fearing brother...terror without a pattern.

State terror in Stalin's Soviet Union became for the population analogous to what cancer is to people today: This random killer - that outside of some general precautions - strikes people down randomly, with no pattern.

In terms of violence the Nazis were obviously pretty good. But in so much as violence to effect political ends, they were amateurs compared to Stalin's CCCP.

[hmm]

Nazi arguments are stupid. That fact is an absolute in the universe and will continue to be an absolute until we run across a more atrocious asshole to use in hyperbolic comparisons to prove an otherwise completely retarded point.

[Rich]

" ... if you happen to be sitting near a publicly listed Clark County telephone line on the right day at the right time, your phone will ring. ... If you answer your landline, an automated message will ask whether you have a question for your Congressman. ... Sitting at his own telephone at an as-yet-undisclosed location, Baird then will choose a name based on its location and the topic."

Sweet. Modern representative gov't in action. What's next -- waiving your tax bill if your question is chosen?

[Gilbert Martin]

"In terms of violence the Nazis were obviously pretty good. But in so much as violence to effect political ends, they were amateurs compared to Stalin's CCCP."

Yes I find it amusing that the leftists hold up Hilter and the Nazis as the epitome of evil in all history when in fact both Stalin and Mao were responsible for killing a greater number of people on an absolute basis than the Nazis were.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

Taking a page right out of a Nazi playbook, organizers bus in professional protestors ...then post video of the resulting chaos on YouTube.

First off, I had no idea the Nazis had access to YouTube.

Second, how respond you, LoneWhacko? Are you using Nazi tactics?

[Tony]

leftists hold up Hilter and the Nazis as the epitome of evil in all history when in fact

Um citation needed. Is this a lame attempt to link American liberals with authoritarian communist regimes?

[joshua corning]

Limbaugh supports torture and indefinite detention. Why the fuck are libertarians rising to his defense on anything? Fucking wingnuts I swear.

Then Moynahan should go after Rush over that fact rather then going after him over stuff that is not true.

[Tony]

Limbaugh supports torture and indefinite detention. Why the fuck are libertarians rising to his defense on anything? Fucking wingnuts I swear.

Obama openly supports one of those.

And guess who his biggest critics are on this topic? Not Rush and not you guys, but liberals.

[hmm]

Scary Nazis, well maybe!!

Funny photochopped from local blogger.

[Justen Robertson]

That's interesting, because of all the dozens of videos I've seen so far of violence and thuggery at political rallies, the thugs have been on the democrat side in every single one. I'm sure it annoys the hell out of democrats to hear the same protests at every rally, especially when they are ignorant or obnoxious, but that doesn't give them the right to start beating people.

[TheZeitgeist]

"Yes I find it amusing that the leftists hold up Hilter and the Nazis as the epitome of evil in all history when in fact both Stalin and Mao were responsible for killing a greater number of people on an absolute basis than the Nazis were."

I totally agree. One thing about the Nazis is the hate they could capitalize on already existed. Anti-semitism is as old as the Torah, frankly. Gypsies? 'Nuff said. The fear of central Asian hordes over-running Europe was ingrained by Ghenghis. All the Nazis did was take advantage of pre-existing social problems.

Stalin (and Mao) had a special trick. They could "create" their own groups to hate with labels and propaganda from completely unrelated groups and ethnicities. "Counter-revolutionary" I think is a Communist trademark. "Trotskyites" is another, as is "revisionist" in so much as being pejorative.

Stalin achieved something that way the Nazis never zeroed in on: Create groups to hate based on how they think. Perceive your ideological opponents, then organize them into a targeted group for "liquidation" before they organize themselves as an effective political opponent. The Nazis could only take advantage of ready-made hate. The Communists could invent one when needed. Evil shit.

[24AheadDotCom]

They were certainly over the top, but maybe someone could explain this to me, specifically focusing on the comment from Best Buddy of Reason Instapundit: "Remember, protest is patriotic!"

I mean, if you want to rumble, don't be surprised that the other side decides to rumble right back.

The better, more American, more civil, more intelligent, and more effective way to do this is described here. Odd that Reason has actually tried to dissuade people from doing that. Very odd, almost like they prefer a show to an attempt to show how the BeltwayEstablishment is wrong. Very odd.

[hmm]

And guess who his biggest critics are on this topic? Not Rush and not you guys, but liberals.

Your right. This ringing endorsement of the tactic is clearly not being disputed or discussed here.

You know, I heard Ginko will help short term memory. Might want to check into that.

[hmm]

The offer still stands. One spatula and some whip cream and it's on. I await your answer. The gauntlet has been thrown down!

[Justen Robertson]

@Tony: see for instance http://economics.gmu.edu/bcaplan/museum/comfaq.htm#part3

Civilian death toll estimates from communist purges in China, state brutality, famine and starvation due to resource mismanagement is between 20 million - 100 million depending on which statistics you follow and what kinds of abuses you include.

Civilian death tolls in Stalinist concentration camps, purges, and man-made famines in Russia ranges 10m - 20m, not including deaths, political assassinations, and genocides during the civil war.

That's compared to the estimated 3.6-10 million civilians killed by Nazi Germany.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

LoneWacko,

Given that you didn't answer my polite question to you (thereby declining my implicit request to rumble), I can only assume that you endorse Gestapo tactics (NTTAWTT). Thank you for participating.

[EJM]

Well, the Nazis were against big business.

I suppose that would include, say, Daimler-Benz?

[?]

I get chills every time I see the Nazis on the History Channel shouting at pro-health care reform speakers.

[TheZeitgeist]

A great irony here is that the Nazis were the first real, well, anti-smoking Nazis in history. And Hitler was a full-on fruticake vegetarian who was into all kinds of bizarre "alternate therapies" for his various ills. Classic.

[joshua corning]

You have the Democrat Speaker of the House saying that people, citizens who are concerned about health care are now wearing swastikas. She's basically saying that we are Nazis. She is saying that the people who oppose this are Nazis, and I'm going to tell you what. I'm going to run down the list here later on in the program, but this party, the Democrat Party and where it's taken this country, the radical left leadership of this party bears much more resemblance to Nazi policies than anything we on the right believe in at all, and I'll go through that list in just a second.

"You call us nazis? well you are the Nazi!!"
Yup Satire.

how does it feel to fail Brotherben?

[MlR]

Well, at least this time you actually succeeded in quoting someone in context.

[Neu Mejican]

Joshua,

"You call us nazis? well you are the Nazi!!"
Yup Satire.

how does it feel to fail Brotherben?

Are you sure you know what "satire" means?
It is not apparent from this comment.

If Rush was going for satire, he fell pretty far short.

Notice the logic here:
Protesters display swastikas to indicate that the "plan is fascistic." Nancy Pelosi points this out and Rush accuses her of "calling us Nazi's." He then goes for this (according to Joshua);

"You call us nazis? well you are the Nazi!!"

Epic fail as the kids say.

[Tulpa]

Do you know how many Jews are going to lose their health insurance in the next few weeks?

[brotherben]

how does it feel to fail Brotherben?

I'll let you know when it happens sweety;}

[brotherben]

I hate to say it but Rush said he would run down a list of apt comparisons between liberals in this country and nazis and then he did just that. I don't think that makes the nazis liberals or the liberals nazis. I also don't think there was any satire involved.

[Fluffy]

Does anyone have a transcript of Rush's broadcast that makes it clear that he had launched a parody? That would certainly help settle the issue.

Because I'm not prepared to take anyone's word for anything regarding Rush.

[brotherben]

fluffy, here is the link to his website with the full transcript.

[Fluffy]

I gotta tell ya guys, I don't see the parody.

Rush seems to be sincerely attempting to list the ways in which the Democrats and the Obama administration are like Nazis.

Naturally, a text transcript can't give you everything. Maybe his tone of voice made it clear it was a parody. But it sure as hell doesn't read that way.

[mark]

That does not exactly read like satire. This, however, does:

How come Barry can't send his half-brother a $20 bill and almost double the guy's annual income. A $20 bill would almost double his brother's annual income, and McCain said to be so out of touch with the common man, uses one of his houses to house an elderly aunt. So they're asking all these questions of McCain on his houses. Okay, I got some questions for Obama. How many huts and ramshackle shacks do your blood relatives own or live in? Have you helped with payments or cosigned bank notes for any of those huts, thatched or otherwise? If your hut-owning relatives ask you for a loan to make an addition to their hut or to build an outhouse, would you be willing to spend the five dollars necessary for an add-on?

Obama, what would be an appropriate hut-warming gift for a half-brother or grandmother?A mosquito net? Cortisone cream for bug bites? A waterproof deck of cards? Please tell us, sir. You've had to deal with these questions as your half siblings have moved into new huts and quarters around the world. How does one go about, Obama, addressing a Christmas card for a close relative that is a hut dweller? Do they have an address, some kind of GPS coordinates to give FedEx? Does FedEx go to any of the huts where your half siblings live? Senator Obama, would it be in poor taste for you to send a sign to your blood relatives to hang in their hut that says "Hut, Sweet Hut"? These are legitimate questions, these are damn legitimate questions. Let me tell you something. After you send the sign that says, "Hut, Sweet Hut," if you haven't done that, why haven't you lifted a finger to help these half siblings raise their standard of living? Do they like living in abject poverty?

What about, Senator Obama, the least among us? Does George Hussein Obama hope for change? Does he hope for an outhouse? Does he hope for some plumbing? Does he hope that he doesn't have to walk a half mile to get a cup of water that is not sanitized, Senator Obama? Does your half-brother George Hussein Obama long for cable TV? We know, Senator, he gets newspapers from somewhere because there are pictures of you posted on one of the walls of the hut. Senator Obama, do your half siblings living in huts all over the world look to you for answers? Do they look to you for hope? Do they look to you for change? By his own admission, your half-brother, George Hussein Obama, has lived in this hut for years, with no change in his life whatsoever, and he is your half-brother! And you're running on "Change." At least, Senator Obama, have the compassion of Castro. At least send your brother, George Hussein Obama, a rice cooker.

[joshua corning]

If someone calls you "blank" and you reply no you are "Blank" and here is why you are "blank" that is satire....hate to be the one to break it to you but that is the definition of satire.

[Neu Mejican]

It may not be satire, but there is some humor in the idea:

1)You are nazis? (protesters)
2)Now protesters are calling us Nazis? (Pelosi)
3)She's calling you Nazis, but she's really the nazi (Rush to Protesters).

I don't think even Rush listens to what Rush says.

[Neu Mejican]

Joshua,

I still don't see how you get "satire" of

You're a poopoo head,
No you're the poopoo head.

(which isn't even what happened here, as I thought we established).

[joshua corning]

1)You are nazis? (protesters)

I think you would be hard pressed to find any protest that does not compare the protesters target as Nazis.

That said it is pretty clear Rush's thinking was that Pelosi's remarks were equating the protesters to Nazis.

You have the Democrat Speaker of the House saying that people, citizens who are concerned about health care are now wearing swastikas. She's basically saying that we are Nazis. She is saying that the people who oppose this are Nazis

In fact if you go to Pelosi's remarks you will not find her saying that the protesters were calling her a nazi....her remarks implied that the protesters were nazis.

[Neu Mejican\'s copyeditor]

ummm...replace "of" with "from" as appropriate.

[EJM]

If someone calls you "blank" and you reply no you are "Blank" and here is why you are "blank" that is satire...

If anything, that may be a better definition of "irony" than of "satire".

[hmm]

This is like watching two retarded kids fight over a red crayon. When the crayon is black.

[Neu Mejican]

Joshua,

Were the protesters displaying swastikas?

(answer, yes)

Why were they wearing swastikas?

(answer, to imply that the Democratic plan was "Nazi like."

Rush is playing you.

[joshua corning]

I still don't see how you get "satire" of

You're a poopoo head,
No you're the poopoo head.

you need to look up satire

A very common, almost defining feature of satire is its strong vein of irony or sarcasm, but parody, burlesque, exaggeration, juxtaposition, comparison, analogy, and double entendre are all frequently used in satirical speech and writing. The essential point, however, is that "in satire, irony is militant".[2] This "militant irony" (or sarcasm) often professes to approve (or at least accept as natural) the very things the satirist actually wishes to attack.

[kawliga]

Once again, the faults and dangers of our symbiotic two party system is on display. Clearly, a strong Libertarian party is needed to right the foundering republic.

[joshua corning]

If anything, that may be a better definition of "irony" than of "satire".

A very common, almost defining feature of satire is its strong vein of irony or sarcasm, but parody, burlesque, exaggeration, juxtaposition, comparison, analogy, and double entendre are all frequently used in satirical speech and writing. The essential point, however, is that "in satire, irony is militant".[2] This "militant irony" (or sarcasm) often professes to approve (or at least accept as natural) the very things the satirist actually wishes to attack.

[Neu Mejican]

Did you read that before you posted it Joshua?

I don't see how it make your point.

[Neu Mejican]

Sheesh,

That was bad.

I don't see how it helps you make your point.

[Neu Mejican]

Maybe it is the word "irony" that is throwing you off.

[joshua corning]

Neu Mejican | August 7, 2009, 7:59pm | #
Joshua,

Were the protesters displaying swastikas?

(answer, yes)

Why were they wearing swastikas?

(answer, to imply that the Democratic plan was "Nazi like."

Rush is playing you.

And Pelosi is not playing the same game? If not then why didn't she say the protesters were comparing us to Nazis rather then what she actually said?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/08/05/pelosi_town_hall_protesters_are_carrying_swastikas.html

[joshua corning]

Neu Mejican | August 7, 2009, 8:04pm | #
Sheesh,

That was bad.

I don't see how it helps you make your point.

Imagine two circles one for irony and one for satire....

never mind the idea that a thing can be two things at once obviously escapes you.

[Neu Mejican]

Joshua,

How do you infer that she was calling them nazis?

I don't get that from the clip at all.

[Neu Mejican]

never mind the idea that a thing can be two things at once obviously escapes you.

Now THAT'S ironic.

[Joshua Corning]

How do you infer that she was calling them nazis?

I think the part about the protesters "carrying swastikas"

[hmm]

Dude, MY CRAYON!

The red ones taste the best anyway.

[Neu Mejican]

Joshua,

Okay.

So, do you think Rush is being sincere in his interpretation of her message? Or do you think he is aware (as you are also aware) that the signs were intended to call the democratic plan fascistic. If he is aware that it was the protesters who introduced the nazi label into the dialog, then it seems his diatribe is an attempt to justify WHY the protesters are carrying swastikas...i.e., to label the plans authors as nazis.

Again, not satire.

[Jeffersonian]

Wasn't it at Bernard Middle School in Mehlville? My father-in-law has coached high school baseball in St. Louis for 20+ years. He still coaches, but not head coach.

It's a middle school now, but an elementary school when I was playing Khoury League ball in the summer. I also attended a day camp across Forder Road called "Robin Hood Day Camp," now turned into a subdivision.

[joshua corning]

So, do you think Rush is being sincere in his interpretation of her message?

Yes.

Again I quote him:

You have the Democrat Speaker of the House saying that people, citizens who are concerned about health care are now wearing swastikas. She's basically saying that we are Nazis. She is saying that the people who oppose this are Nazis

[mark]

Neu, you could put this to rest if you gave an example of what it would look like if Rush was using satire.

[BruceM]

But one action has NOTHING to do with Nazis, and the other actually DOES reflect how the Nazis acted.

There's no hypocrisy here.

[TEH UNIONS]

Milk it for all it's worth guys, it's so obvious that you guys are running scared and clutching at straws. I'd feel sorry for you, but fuck it it's fun watching all you run verbal olympics to make O get to that hammer and sickle. sad sad sad

[Mr. Chartreuse]

TEH UNIONS said:
Milk it for all it's worth guys, it's so obvious that you guys are running scared and clutching at straws. I'd feel sorry for you, but fuck it it's fun watching all you run verbal olympics to make O get to that hammer and sickle. sad sad sad

Shouldn't you be out building an inferior product that costs more and breaks down more often than the competition?

[Tony]

Civilian death toll estimates from communist purges in China, state brutality, famine and starvation due to resource mismanagement is between 20 million - 100 million depending on which statistics you follow and what kinds of abuses you include.

Civilian death tolls in Stalinist concentration camps, purges, and man-made famines in Russia ranges 10m - 20m, not including deaths, political assassinations, and genocides during the civil war.

That's compared to the estimated 3.6-10 million civilians killed by Nazi Germany.

And your point would be? These are facts I've known since primary school. I already have to deal with christian asshats denouncing atheism for this reason, making a similar comparison with regard to liberalism is equally dumb.

[Mike Licht]

Obama's gonna kill Grandma?

See:

http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/obama-wants-to-kill-your-grandma/

[GG]

It's those zombies behind the logo that freak me out.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Just noting how many articles reason has written calling Obama a fascist...of course Nazi and fascist are different; in fact it could be argued that the Nazi were far more socialistic, redistributing wealth from the wealthy Jews to the lower and middle Aryan classes. But...just saying...it's not surprising many make the leap between the two, even if Nazis are an extreme example. If you're going to call Obama a fascist, make sure you qualify that with "democratic" or "light" or something so people don't get it confused with Nazi Germany. You can call it gentle fascism with a smiley face.

I'm just scratching my head at why labor unions and liberal activist groups are acting like there is some big conspiracy, when the Right is just using the same grassroots methods those groups have been using all along. For these groups to equate their methods with Nazism is just plain bizarre. But cognitive dissonance is in vogue these days...

[Art-P.O.G.]

I sink ve are understanding vun another quite vell, Tony. But seriously, good point, Tony. But I doubt anyone was calling Stalin a liberal in any "classical" sense.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I don't even think he was an Atheist in the classical sense. "Replacing" God with "The State" is not an improvemnt.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

I was just looking at Daily Kos. Boy, the opposition to Obamacare really does have the lefties wetting themselves. They are hysterically shrieking that the country is "under siege" and such.

[Tom]

It's nothing new for Rush to use 'Nazi' in ad hominem attacks. Rush routinely calls women "feminazis" and has done so for years - just one example of Rush namecalling as a "Nazi" anyone that he doesn't like. He earns his money by fanning the flames of hatred.

[joshua corning]

One thing we should note is that everyone here has seen the photo of a protester holding a sign of Bush or Reagan with a swastika painted on their face.

Why is it so different now that that there are swastikas painted on Obama's face?

[Art-P.O.G.]

Why is it so different now that that there are swastikas painted on Obama's face?

You're right. The intellectually lazy have been Godwinning their opponents for awhile. But I think most of us thought the whole "Bushitler" meme was poor anyway.

Rush does sometimes make good points, but I personally find his whole persona tiresome. But, hey, his audience loves him.

[Fluffy]

How do you infer that she was calling them nazis?

I don't get that from the clip at all.

I think she "forgot" to specify that she was angry about being called a Nazi, because she knew very well that the soundbite about swastikas would make it sound like the protestors were Nazis and white supremacists.

Honestly, the first term I heard about this statement I thought she was saying that skinheads had shown up. I'm being completely sincere here.

[JohnD]

I thought Tony had the lock on stupid posts, but it looks like New Mejican is giving him a run for the money.

Even a moron can figure out that the protesters were not wearing swastikas and Pelosi was implying they were nazis.

By the way Tom, Rush doesn't call women "feminazis", he calls militant women feminists that. Moron!

[Giovanni]

I just wonder how anyone could think that the government is at all capable of running a insurance company when they can not even run a department of motor vehicles. The thought of having to deal with goverment employees scares me. I have no insurance, have a bad back and bad shoulder. It sucks but I deal with it. I know if I need help, I simply go to the emergency room and get the help that i need. If I can not pay the bills, my credit gets screwed up and OH WELL. I guess I will not qualify for a credit card that I cant afford anyway.

[MonkeeHeadinSouth]

Obviously the social-authoritarianism of the classic totalitarian states (nazi's pinkos etc) has been on the wane for the last few decades

but from an economic point of view
corporatism, the system associated with some of those 1930's thugs won out

Republicans and Democrats nowadays just vary on which big business they wanna get in bed with

and where i come from Nazi is used just to mean a cunt

like my maths teacher/my boss/ that policman/ yo mama is a nazi

I can honestly say that IMHO both democrats and republicans are complete cunts

[Neu Mejican]

Fluffy,

I guess I can see that, but I still don't see how that changes the interpretation of Rush's actions. Rush knew why the protesters had the swastikas. He knew that they protesters were calling the author of the plan nazis. So he used his diatribe to justify that association.

As has been mentioned above, this is pretty standard fair for Rush.

The defense of the name calling as a species of "satire" is odd, imho. Rush is popular because of his name calling ways. His "tell it like it is" style appeals to those who think the way he does (never mind how far from "how it is" his world view wanders).

He attempts satire on occasion.
This ain't one of those occasions.

[Tulpa]

Neu Mejican,

This isn't a term paper.

You don't have to double space.

Really.

[Neu Mejican]

Tulpa,

Thanks for sharing.

[brotherben]

Tom said of Rush:
He earns his money by fanning the flames of hatred.

I agree. I think he does it by flinging verbal sparks into the fecal methane seeping from the ears of his listeners.

Don't even get me started on The Great American

[The Libertarian Guy]

"Taking a page right out of a Nazi playbook, organizers bus in professional protestors and arm them with instructions on how to take over meetings, shut down discussion, shout over any pro-health care reform speakers, and then post video of the resulting chaos on YouTube. It's mob rule, pure and simple."

Code Pink, ACORN, and other groups, however, do not engage in this sort of behavior.

Right?

Hey, whoever is doing it - on either side - PLEASE keep doing it. The less Congress gets done, the slower our demise.

[The Libertarian Guy]

"Is this a lame attempt to link American liberals with authoritarian communist regimes?"

No need. They aspire to be like said regimes. That sort of total control of the populace is a goal of both American "wings".

[hmm]

Next stop in American culture?

We are going to have assclown interest groups protest every fucking political desire and change they want.

Screw the French socialism argument. We are head for the bullshit French "riot, protest, bitch, moan, about everything" model.

[Gilbert Martin]

"Is this a lame attempt to link American liberals with authoritarian communist regimes?"

There were plenty of liberals who willingly linked themselves to communist regimes for a great many years. Like Pete Seeger.

[MonkeeHeadinSouth]

"There were plenty of liberals who willingly linked themselves to communist regimes for a great many years. Like Pete Seege"

Benicio, Bill Murray, Caan And Duvall In Cuba For Awards

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/30/benicio-bill-murray-caan-_n_248336.html

I do worry for liberals
like imaginably these dictaorships' days are numbered
when they all do eventually fall where are they gonna go?

Presumably they've got the money to buy a small army and round up a bunch of brown people on one of their Caribbean holiday homes
Then stick up loads of bill boards reminding the brown people they're in a paradise and they'll be shot if they try to leave

They can install George Clooney as the white benevolent dictator of the brown people and once every few months liberal actors can go on holiday there and drink martini's with Clooney.

When you think about it
that's pretty much Guantanamo Bay

maybe liberals just hated Bush people he actually got to live out their fantasies

[MJ]

"I think she "forgot" to specify that she was angry about being called a Nazi, because she knew very well that the soundbite about swastikas would make it sound like the protestors were Nazis and white supremacists."-Fluffy

That is plausible. I think it's also plausible that Pelosi is so ignorant she does understand that the protestors were comparing the Dem policies to Naziism.

[hmm]

Pelosi shouldn't get the benefit of any doubt. Every time she opens her mouth and the statement isn't prepared by someone else I swear I lose an IQ point if I don't cover my ears. She said what she said because that is what she thought and more than likely what someone told her. There's no confusion, or mistake involved. She's that stupid and thinks that little of Americans in general.

[Tony]

Pelosi shouldn't have to bother with figuring out whether the protesters are in favor of the swastika or using it against their enemies. It's insane behavior either way.

[Xeones]

organizers bus in professional protestors and arm them with instructions on how to take over meetings, shut down discussion, shout over any pro-health care reform speakers, and then post video of the resulting chaos on YouTube.

LoneWacko wrote the Nazi playbook?

Shut the fuck up, LoneWacko.

[hmm]

Pelosi shouldn't have to bother with figuring out whether the protesters are in favor of the swastika or using it against their enemies. It's insane behavior either way.

So the question is why is she? Oh ya, it's a good sound bite. So of course she picked out the one person exhibiting "insane behavior" and made sure to mention it in order to paint an entire group in the same light.

She's still a dumb bitch and probably thinks everyone there was in a nazi uniform and a skin head.

[hmm]

I have yet to see or hear of one bussed in group here. I saw one small group of SEIU, and a friend says she saw 3 cargo vans full of SEIU shirts. Those are the only ones I've seen or heard of.

The more likely scenario is that there is a grass roots movement to get the dates, times, and locations out to people who will object rather than the DNC model of actually rounding up bums.

The Obama rally here had a line of busses out side union station that must have been two miles long. Just an interesting reference. One progressive movement speaker here actually bragged about shipping people in from the entire state at tax payer expense for his stop in Saint Louis.

Perspective of the accused and the accusers. Important it is.

[frege]

Since both parties suck I suggest everyone vote for the party that doesn't want to raise your taxes with a white hot passion.