Conspiracy

Close Encounters of the Absurd Kind

What the Obama birth certificate conspiracy says about American politics

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Science fiction writer Damon Knight once claimed that the popularity of conspiracy theories could be explained by our "desire to believe that there is some group of folks who know what they're doing."

Wishful thinking. And few "groups of folks" have displayed less aptitude in the art of keeping secrets than government.

Yet no matter who is in power, no matter how incompetent they may be, there always exists this irate minority that believes politicians possess supernatural powers of deception.

The mystery the nation faces isn't President Barack Obama's birth certificate. The mystery is how any American could believe that all the president's former political opponents, both the Republican and Democratic parties, Hawaiian officials and two Honolulu newspapers (nay, the entire press corps) could work in concert to conceal the biggest con of the eon.

Well, OK, not the biggest con.

There was George W. Bush, who, though often accused of possessing the brainpower of a ripe banana, was nevertheless also able to work on the complex North American Union agreement and mastermind an oily conspiracy for the ages.

According to a 2006 Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll, more than a third of the public suspects that Bush officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East.

As if we needed an excuse.

President Bill Clinton's long verifiable history of slimy behavior was also never enough to quench the anger of some. So we concocted the Don of Little Rock, who, though he wasn't shrewd enough to cover up a run-of-the-mill affair with a young intern, had the ability to surreptitiously run a cocaine trafficking outfit and knock off Vince Foster.

Those who peddle the Obama birth certificate conspiracy are squandering their chance at making any substantive case against an administration that is waging a completely non-secretive and non-conspiratorial battle against capitalism.

If you want to watch yourself in action, just take the time to find the video floating around on YouTube of Rep. Mike Castle (R-Del).

In a town hall meeting, Castle is accosted by a mob of ginned-up Republicans, clapping and hollering about Obama's non-citizenship and, finally, forcing the cowering congressman to recite the Pledge of Allegiance to display his loyalty.

If conservatives believe this kind of indulgence of lunacy is helpful, they are mistaken.

As former Clinton White House press secretary Jake Siewert explained to Politico early in the Obama presidency, "At some level, they're not that bad to have around because it reminds people that under the mainstream conservative press there's this bubbling up of really irrational hatred for the guy."

In a 378-0 vote Tuesday, the House passed a nonbinding resolution that asserts, in part, that "the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii."

Which, of course, only adds credence to the "birther" conspiracy.

It was reignited only recently, by populist CNN anchor Lou Dobbs. After taking a call from a listener on his radio show who claimed that Obama is a Kenyan, Dobbs replied, "Certainly your view can't be discounted."

Yes, it sure can be discounted. A "view," if you want to be taken seriously, needs to be buttressed by a fact or two, if at all possible.

Then again, this conspiracy movement, like others before it, should be placed in its proper context, which is to say, it never should be taken seriously.

I always think of the results of a poll conducted not too long ago in which we found out that a surprisingly large number of Americans believe it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that the U.S. government is "withholding proof of the existence of intelligent life from other planets."

Let's just say that with the dearth of that particular brand of life-form around here, maybe we should be hopeful that participants are correct.

We could use the help.

David Harsanyi is a columnist at The Denver Post and the author of Nanny State. Visit his Web site at www.DavidHarsanyi.com.

COPYRIGHT 2009 THE DENVER POST
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  1. I’ve grown to expect more from Reason, like citing some relevant facts to the issue at hand. Reading this type of bandwagon reasoning was a waste of my time. A much more fact based examination is at http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103633 Perhaps Reason could examine the similarities and differences of the presented real birth certificate with printing used in the government offices at the time of birth?

  2. As a proud member of the Illuminati since 1983 (Freemason branch) I just want to thank David Harsanyi for covering up laying to rest the absurd rumours of our Machiavellian machinations. We really don’t control anything.

    Nothing to see here, move along.

  3. Cue LoneWacko in 3…2…

  4. Fellow Illuminati members, we have to shout down the dangerous Alex Chaney. He’s getting too close to unraveling our diabolical plans for world domination.

  5. You know that big eye on the back of the dollar bill? It’s on you now, Chaney.

  6. HAHAHAHAHA! Facts and World News Daily in the same thought? HAHAHAHAHA!

    Alex Chaney wins the thread!

  7. Just because his policies are un-American does not mean he is not an (natural born) American. Believing in free enterprise, keeping the fruits of one’s own labor, and belief in the entire Bill of Rights as intended by the forefathers is not a requirement to be president, or congressman. Though, you may have to lie a bit during the oath. That’s a minor detail that hasn’t stopped any Democrats or Republicans in the past, so why start now.

  8. The biggest and best kept secrets are always hidden under the veneer of truth. So if the government is telling you something you better bet that is where the bodies are hidden. For the stuff they actually try to hide that will always out.

  9. J sub D: I strongly disagree. It would appear that Mr. Chaney is helping us reverse vampires stay in the background by deflecting any attention from us. Assuredly this will aid us in our designs.

  10. Dude, if you’re a freemason, maybe you can explain the whole “Tubal Cain” thing to me.

    Let me ask the first question I’ve always wanted to ask:

    What the hell?

  11. Ok Chaney, since you spoke up I will ask you the same questions I ask lonewacko.

    1. Why isn’t Obama’s mom being a US citizen good enough? She was born in Kansas (and therefore a citizen), shouldn’t this qualify Obama for citizenship automatically?

    2. We have had lots of Presidents who didn’t have birth certificates…I imagine the first dozen or so. Yet you don’t dispute their ability to be President.

    3. Isn’t what makes a citizen alawys been a changing target. Besides for what was mentioned in number 2 there are lots of other quasi citizen ship examples. Goldwater was born in a Arizona when it was a territory (and therefore not part of the USA). I know he wasn’t President, but no one bitched about him. I also think there was an example of this during the 19th century (Grant maybe?).

    4. No one said anything about McCain, though he was born in Panama.

    5. What would you like the outcome to be? OK, Obama can’t be President…..great…we get Biden, thanks for protecting democracy.

    6. Finally, if you support freedom why can’t I vote for whom ever I want? Why are you shilling for government documentation and bureaucracy?

    Again, let me say this. Obama sucks ass, but when you focus on bullshit like his birth certificate you take away energy that could be focused on fighting his polices.

    Please oh please will one of the birthers (lw, chaney, etc..) these fucking questions. I keep asking them and they ignore.

  12. It can only serve the Dems for this story to keep making the rounds… the Reps should be trying to put out this fire of stupidity as soon as possible… do they think this story does anything for them? or do they think throwing oil on a fire might smother it?

  13. As posted earlier today:

    BTW, birther Lou Dobbs is going to be on O’Reilly tonight (8:00 pm ET). O’Reilly is going to ask, “What the hell is wrong with you?” Last night O’Reilly said that there were birth announcements of Obama’s birth in the Hawaii newspapers (they’re archived). I can’t wait to hear how Dobbs reconciles that with his birtherism.

  14. Jaybird,

    Tubelcain was a descendant of Cain. According to the Bible, he invented metalworking and is therefore of interest because of his connection to Builders/Architects/Designers motif so prevalent in Freemasonry.

  15. Within the last few days, the House of Representatives had one of of those somewhat meaningless resolutions that affirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii. The vote was 378-0, and included most of the Republican caucus. Also, the National Review Online website wrote an editorial unequivocally dismissing the “birthers” and affirming that the evidence shows that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii.

    These events really should put this silly non-issue to rest once and for all, because it’s becoming more obvious each day that the lefties are desperately trying to use this as a smokescreen to distract everyone from their machinations on things like health care.

  16. I know people say Worldnetdaily is a nutjob conspiracy site, but yesterday they posted a story with a woman showing the “long form” certs of her twins that were born in Kapi’olani hospital one day after Obama. So these kind of certs were issued at that hospital at that time. After much back and forth Hawaiian officials have stated that these types of paper records are on file and in their possession. So it really is an interesting question as to why Obama just doesn’t release his cert and make all of this go away. The fact he has not released ANY records, no school, passport, medical etc., just adds to the speculation. Now personally I believe he is ineligible because his father was a foreigner. That’s another question. Maybe Reason can look into that aspect of the case.

  17. IceTrey,
    awesome….maybe you can answer some of my question posted above.

  18. None of you are getting invited to the next John Birth Society meeting.

  19. I believe that Neil Armstrong shot JFK and went to the Moon to avoid prosecution.

  20. Bullshit. Elvis shot JFK to save us from Communism and everyone knows it.

  21. Hammer every state actor with any issue that calls into question their legitimacy. So, go Lou Dobbs. Go Lou!

  22. I see that International Jewry and the Bilderberg wings of the Illuminati (SugarFree and Mike M.) ave weighed in discrediting Alex Chaney.

    Have you guys noticed that the Trilateralists are always the last to pitch in? I’m getting tired of the slackers.

  23. Anytime a person resorts to the phrase, “nutjob conspiracy” or the like, said person has conceded that they don’t know jack.

  24. Oy vey!

  25. it’s becoming more obvious each day that the lefties are desperately trying to use this as a smokescreen to distract everyone from their machinations on things like health care.

    And another layer of the conspiracy is revealed!

  26. Jayhawker-

    Where in the constitution is there support for the proposition that one’s presidential qualifications are satisfied if only their mother is born in the US? Read the OPERATIVE TEXT.

    Natural born citizen does not mean being born in a foreign country. If the framers had intended the qualifications to include one who is born in a foreign country, they would have so stated.

  27. finally, forcing the cowering congressman to recite the Pledge of Allegiance to display his loyalty.

    Makes one wonder if liberals would ever have accosted Paul Wellstone (R.I.P.) and force hime to recite Karl Marx’s “there is a specter” statement.

  28. Jayhawker, your second question is totally irrelevant and moot. The issue is Obama’s qualification to be president. The constitution must be vindicated. That trumps all.

  29. What the hell are you talking about? Everyone knows that Elvis couldn’t shoot worth a damn. He used to miss his own TV set.

    Armstrong, on the other hand, was a crack shot and has known connections to Ohio.

  30. were birth announcements of Obama’s birth in the Hawaii newspapers (they’re archived). I can’t wait to hear how Dobbs reconciles that with his birtherism.

    I would want to know who has access to those archives.

  31. 1. Why isn’t Obama’s mom being a US citizen good enough? She was born in Kansas (and therefore a citizen), shouldn’t this qualify Obama for citizenship automatically?

    Not to fan the flames of stupid, but, no. Children born to US citizens abroad are subject to a number of restrictions and especially if there is only one citizen parent.

    If BO was born in Kenya rather than Hawaii he would not be a citizen since his eighteen year old mother would not have met the residency requirements – five consecutive years residency in the US after reaching the age of fourteen, IIRC.

    I only bring this up since it is important to know the facts even if you are making a case against patent busllshit.

    Also, if the BO born in Kenya story were true it would raise, at a minimum, the question of why he lied about being born in HI. Fact is, the “cerificate birthers” have made a serious accusation of multiple felonies with a single shred of anything remotely resembling evidence.

    Now the question I would like to hear answered is, if a conspiracy to subvert the law by commiting perjury had occured, wouldn’t public officials who had knowledge of the facts, while being prohibited from making them public, be permitted or, even obligated, to make the facts known to the appropriate law enforcement officials? In this case, the Attorney-General of Hawaii or possibly the USA, I would think.

    Could one of our legal eagles at Hit’n’Run weigh in on that? Preferably the one with the lowest hourly billing rate. 🙂

  32. libertymike,

    I went and looked up an online version of the constitution. The only phrase I can find is “natural born citizen,” of which no definition is given.
    You refer to the operative text, could you please point me to them (pardon my ignorance), so I can better ascertain your argument.

    Though weren’t all the framers technically born in a foreign country, since the United States had not been formed when they were born?

  33. Gentlemen, I came to confess. I was the second gunman on the grassy knoll.

    ALLLRIGHTY THEN.

  34. “Not to fan the flames of stupid”

    Hey, fuck you. I ask a fair question. If I am wrong then please correct me. But calling me stupid does not seem to be helpful.

  35. jayjayahwker, the question isn’t of Obama’s citizenship, it’s of where he was born. The Constitution specifically requires a President to be born in the US (or its territories or possessions, like McCain was).

    That said, between the certification of live birth released by the Obama camp and the birth announcement in the local paper (which is never submitted by parents but only uses information from the Department of Health for those children actually born in Hawaii), why anyone would question where Obama was born is just stupid.

    As for why he wouldn’t release the version with more information, there are two possibilities:

    1) Hawaii doesn’t print them anymore. I have my copy printed in the mid-90s before they stopped providing certified copies (born in the same hospital as the President, 10 years later), but maybe Obama never got one for whatever reason. Or it was lost. Who knows. In any event, you can’t get them anymore.

    2) The short form is the form used for passports and such. It’s the only legal form needed for anything to establish your citizenship and place of birth. If birthers aren’t satisfied with that one, they won’t be satisfied with the longer one, so why bother releasing it even if he does have a copy?

  36. Shut the fuck up, Tony.

  37. The most interesting aspect to me about birthers is that they seem to think that if they can just get people to examine the evidence closely enough, it’ll actually disqualify Obama for president. it’s touching, really. Do you think that DC, as a group, would even want the political shitstorm that would arise from that? Not even the GOP would want the dangerous insanity that would result.

  38. Please. You weren’t even alive then. The second gunman was, of course, Buzz Aldrin.

  39. “Natural born citizen does not mean being born in a foreign country. If the framers had intended the qualifications to include one who is born in a foreign country, they would have so stated.”

    I was taught the the history of Poland was the reason the framers added the natural born citizen componant.

  40. Please. You weren’t even alive then. The second gunman was, of course, Buzz Aldrin.

    I thought it was The Comedian?

  41. Episiarch,

    Man, would I love for it to be true. Yes, that would mean more Biden, but for the crap to hit the fan like that. . .it’s just what this country needs. A Constitutional bitch slap.

  42. “I would want to know who has access to those archives.”

    I’m watching The Factor tonight to find out.

  43. Could somebody explain to me where the US Constitution specifies the required citizenship status of the PARENTS of the POTUS?

    Anyone?

  44. Natural born citizen does not mean being born in a foreign country. If the framers had intended the qualifications to include one who is born in a foreign country, they would have so stated.

    Huh? IRegarding italicized portion.

    Mike, the founders left a lot of things out, and one was who was or was not a citizen.

    The did, however, grant Congress sweeping powers to make laws as to who was or was not a citizen, and how one went about becoming one.

    And Congress has made laws about who is a citizen automatically at birth or IOW, a natural-born citizen (ie one not needing naturalization). And it includes several classes of people born in foreign countries.

    The fact that you (or I, for that matter) don’t like the ways in which Congress has exercised those sweeping (and in many cases, unlibertarian) powers does not mean they don’t have them.

  45. ktc2,
    Yeah I am trying to run down the same info at the moment (and citizenship requirements for the POTUS in general)…and umm…good fucking luck with that.

  46. I would just like to remind everyone that Hitler wasn’t a natural born United States citizen either, and we all saw how that worked out. Tubalcain.

  47. Yeah, that’s what I figured. The parents birth place or even citizenship status is a non issue according to the constitution. It’s just more birther conspiracy bullshit.

  48. On Point did a show about birthers on Monday (http://www.onpointradio.org/2009/07/the-fury-of-the-birthers). Turns out they’re insane. One guest on the show was prominent birther Orly Taitz, who talks exactly like Lonewacko writes – arrogant, insulting, and delusional. Also, she’s a big fan of Alan Keyes.

  49. I am not a birther, but I don’t care if Obama is a valid US citizen or not. As far as I am concerned he is a Kenyan Marxist usuper. The Manchurian Candidate yet lives and the country will die because of it.

  50. Please. You weren’t even alive then. The second gunman was, of course, Buzz Aldrin.

    ProL, I am disappointed you missed my Ace Ventura reference.

    Man, would I love for it to be true. Yes, that would mean more Biden, but for the crap to hit the fan like that. . .it’s just what this country needs. A Constitutional bitch slap.

    That’s why it would never happen and the GOP would never pursue it.

  51. I would want to know who has access to those archives.

    That’s not what “they’re archived” means. It means that there are microfilm copies of that newspaper, created probably in the 1970s (when it was all the craze) in many archives all over the state, and in a few places in the rest of the country.

    The chain of logic has to be that Obama was born in Kenya (or wherever) and somehow it was arranged that his birth announcement appeared in a Hawaiian newspaper with no mention of the Kenyan birth. And that this fakery was down just in case this IllegalSecretMuslim was ever elected President and needed cover from the oh so clever nutballs on his case. Especially since making sure he was born in America, where his mother lived all through her pregnancy with no evidence whatsoever that she left the country at all, wasn’t possible somehow.

  52. The “Birthers” are just Spite Rightists – pseudocons who’ll stick their hands in any filth as long as they can then fling it at liberals.

  53. Episiarch,

    Never saw it. In any event, my response would’ve been the same, since I’m a Spacer (i.e., one who believes that Apollo 11 was part of the cover-up of the JFK assassination).

    Yeah, if Obama really was born outside the U.S., I’m sure The Establishment? would protect him. Can’t have any kind of crisis, can we?

  54. Hey, fuck you. I ask a fair question. If I am wrong then please correct me. But calling me stupid does not seem to be helpful.

    I meant that the conspiracy theory was stupid and that a response might be considered giving it credence. It was not my intention to call you stupid, just those who believe in “certifiGATE” as well as the NBCers.

    And if you read the comment you will see that I gave you serious answers to both parts of your question No 1. So read it and learn and stop being thinskinned and telling people to fuck off.

  55. Mea Culpa then Issac.

  56. “The Constitution specifically requires a President to be born in the US”

    No it doesn’t. All it says is “natural born citizen”. To me this would seem to include anyone who is a citizen at birth, regardless of where they are born. Of course, anyone’s interpretation of this bit of the constitution is purely speculation since there has never been any need to determine exactly what this means.

  57. There is no definition in the Constitution, nor any court case, nor any US law that specifically defines the term “natural born citizen”. The best guess that has been given is that the Framers got the phrase form Vattell’s “The Law of Nations”. The definition he gives is “those born in the country, of parents who are citizens”. Now Obama had a non-citizen father so he doesn’t meet those criteria. But until there is a court challenge that is heard and decided the meaning will remain ambiguous at best.

  58. Thank you zeb and icetrey, you are illustrating point number 3 of my original post.

    Though by many of the answers given in here the original framers would not have been qualified to be POTUS. (Yes, I know this is due to acts of congress after the framers had served, but it still makes my point nicely).

  59. The chain of logic has to be that Obama was born in Kenya (or wherever) and somehow it was arranged that his birth announcement appeared in a Hawaiian newspaper with no mention of the Kenyan birth.

    As near as I can tell from the version of the “birth announcement” I saw is that it’s the kind of generic announcement that many papers printed automatically from information they got from the hospitals in the area. No action was required from any family members. Notices placed by the family tended to be a lot more embellished.

    This is speculation on my part and could quite possibly be wrong, so correction would be welcome, if necessary.

    Mea Culpa then Issac.

    No worries, jayjayhawker. But misspelling my name does piss me off. (kidding:)

  60. jayjayhawker

    The COTUS specifically includes the framers by specifying date before which it does not apply.

  61. “It” being the natural born citizen thing, that is.

  62. “The best guess that has been given is that the Framers got the phrase form Vattell’s “The Law of Nations”. The definition he gives is “those born in the country, of parents who are citizens”.”

    We’ve already had multiple presidents with at least one non-US citizen parent (and not just the early ones when everyone’s parent was a non-US citizen; Arthur, Wilson, Hoover, and I think a couple more).

  63. Issac,

    That was where I was going with it. If the announcement wasn’t gleaned by the paper, then the family had to put it in. The difficulties of both contacting a Hawaiian paper from Kenya in 1962 and getting it in there with no mention of Kenya (why would the family be ashamed) make the foreign birth scenario rather ludicrous.

    Why have the plain jane announcement if the family placed it? Why have an “automatic” announcement of a foreign birth in a newspaper with no mention of the foreign birth? And how did the paper find out that soon anyway?

  64. By the way, another theory is that the founders though of anyone who was a citizen of any of the founding colonies were automatically citzens of the new nation. Remember the idea that you were a citizen of your state first, and the nation second were prevalent.

    Following this some theorize that the NBC time exemption was placed their so that Alexander Hamilton (born in Barbados and hence an NBC of no North American state) would be qualified.

    Thoughts?

  65. Oh, I heard the theory I expounded in my last post from my father, who learned it at scholl.

    So it seems to have been the theory prevalent among people putting together the history curriculum in 1920s New York State. My Dad went to elementary schools in NYC and high school in Syracuse.

  66. SugarFree

    Don’t forget the registration of the birth in Kenya that for some odd reason shows the place of birth as Honolulu.

  67. Why in the world would people actually find it credible that an 18 year old college freshman hopped on a plane to Kenya from Hawaii in the early 1960s to give birth, and then quickly flew back. And then everyone spent over four decades hiding this fact?

    I mean, how much would it even cost to fly half way around the world in the 60s?

  68. What does this have to do with Gates?

    Actually it would be nice of reason to post some links to game theory and other defenses of why these types of conspiracy theories are always false. Instaed of just making fun of them. I mean, when I argued against them with my old manager who was a conspiracy theory advocate, I did not insult him (well I did but for fun) but talked about the Prisoner’s Dilema, and how any conspiracy must be small and short lived since it’s in the best interest of the parties involved to betray each other.

  69. The definition he gives is “those born in the country, of parents who are citizens”.

    Actually, there is at least on case that does bring that doctrine up only to reject it.

    It concerned a man born in Sa Francisco onf Chinese parents. The court determined that he was a citizen by virtue of being born in the USA and did not need to be naturalized. Sounds like a natural born citizen to me.

    Interestingly it is one of the cases that the NBCers use to “prove” their “case”. Gives one some insight into the comprehension skills, I think.

  70. “The did, however, grant Congress sweeping powers to make laws as to who was or was not a citizen, and how one went about becoming one.”

    This is what makes it all moot. If for some reason it came out Obama (or McCain for that matter, remember there were questions about where he was born as well) actually did not meet the requirements, in the end Congress would just fiat it. Even the opposing party would not bother trying to stop such an Act from passing it would be risking a civil uprising.

  71. Come on, Andrew G. at 2:06pm, the Secret International Muslim Conspiracy has unlimited resources. Financing international air travel would have been small potatoes.

    Mind you, I would think that all the bribes they had to pay to all of the officials from both parties to buy there silence must have strained their resources.

    The picture of Hillary performing in a Matamoros donkey show was worth every penny they paid for it though.

  72. In any event, my response would’ve been the same, since I’m a Spacer (i.e., one who believes that Apollo 11 was part of the cover-up of the JFK assassination).

    If only “Dark Skies” hadn’t been canceled after one season (when, IIRC, the storyline was still set in ’68).

  73. Isaac Bartram,

    I hadn’t even heard that one. Nice.

    Occam’s Razor isn’t just a unique weapon in Fallout 3, people.

  74. One of my kids has lost my Fallout 3 DVD. I am not pleased.

    EJM,

    There goes my chance to write for TV–dangit.

  75. You could have asked Don Ho if he could shed light on the situation, what type certificates were issued then and the like. But he is dead.

  76. * Read my completely fact-based coverage of the Obama certificate issue. If anyone can point to even a single factual or logical error, post it here. (Hint: no one can find even one single error.)

    * Dave Weigel lied (again)

    * Ben Smith has repeatedly lied.

    * Just recently, National Review just made things up.

    You can think the “birthers” are nuts all day long, but at the same time the anti-“birthers” can’t even get basic facts straight and instead lie, mislead, and twist themselves into knots trying to prove something they claim is cut-and-dried. Why do they have to keep lying and misleading?

  77. I hadn’t even heard that one. Nice.

    What? The Hamilton/NBC exemption or the Hillary/donkey show photo.

    I have it on good authority that they’re both more authentic than Obama/certifiGATE. 🙂

  78. 2. From my comment at mediamatters.org/columns/200907230005#529507

    4. Neither announcement listed a birth place or hospital, and no one has ever provided proof that such announcements could have only come from the birth hospital… Why isn’t MMFA mentioning that the possibility that the announcements were planted by BHO’s grandparents in expectation of a custody battle? That doesn’t mean they did that. However, isn’t MMFA misleading you when they only state one outrageous possibility rather than stating other more reasonable possibilities? Is MMFA dumb, or do they think you are?

    Also: neither announcement even has BHO’s name. Go take a look at them. That’s the anti-“birther”‘s idea of proof.

  79. What would be really great is if Obama turned out to be a legacy of the Cold War–a child of Soviet spies intended to be raised in Communism and to run for office in the U.S. The KGB would be so pleased.

    Man, reality never is as good as fiction, is it? I think we’re just not clever enough to accomplish such feats in the real world.

  80. Good to see you have decided to join the group hug lw.
    So….care to answer any of the points in my post near the top of the comments section?

  81. Isaac,

    I have photos proving that Hillary Clinton is a Sith Lord. Or is that Sith Lady?

  82. Also, the announcements could have been placed simply as a keepsake.

    None of that means they were planted, that just means that they aren’t proof that he was born there.

    Using the announcements as proof would involve getting sworn statements from those at the DOH, hospitals, and newspapers all confirming that the announcements could only indicate a HI birth. And, it would involve contemporaneous documents, such as office memos laying out their procedures. I wouldn’t be surprised if some packrat retired adminstrator has those somewhere.

    Note that harping on the announcements using the same strawman argument seen above is practically part of the BHO supporters user manual.

    Anyone who points to the announcements as proof is either dumb or they think you are.

  83. LoneWhackjob, if any official in the State of Hawaii was aware of multiple instances of perjury and fraud, would he or sh not be obligated to bring it to the attention of appropiate law enforcement officials?

    Just how much have the SecretInternationalMuslimConspiracy paid for this coverup?

    And what do you know about the HillaryDonkeyShow? 🙂

    Hint: you have to write something that approaches coherence for anyone to analyse it for factual or logical errors.

  84. 24AheadDotCom:

    From the very first sentence on your linked page: Despite what you might have heard, no definitive proof that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii has been provided.

    This is bullshit, as his birth certificate clearly states he was born in Hawaii and the birth announcement in the local paper clearly states he was born in Honolulu. That is a glaring factual error on your part. I have no reason to believe the rest of your page would be any more accurate than that bit.

  85. jayjayahwker: great questions! Too bad they don’t apply to my coverage, which can be seen here.

    However, #4 is false: there was even a pro-McCain resolution. Regarding #5, if that’s directed at me you must be really dumb because it should be pretty darn obvious to almost anyone what my goal is. Hint: what are the occupations of those listed in the titles of my posts at the link above? Can you figure that out, jayjayahwker?

  86. Just because governments can’t keep secrets doesn’t mean they’re not lying.

  87. Jesus borderjumping Christ, LoneWhackoff, here we have a president who has a sweeping agenda to raise spending to heights not seen since WWII (the Big One), not to mention intrusions by the FedGov into ares not dreamed of by Bush or anyone before and you’re obsessing about a notion so unfounded that even you don’t (by your own admission) give it credence.

  88. I’ve got other things to do, so I can’t simply sit here and re-hash things I’ve said countless times at my site and elsewhere.

    Isaac Bartram has obviously never heard of any of the many political scandals where officials looked the other way or the like. Those hundreds of instances apparently didn’t happen in his world. That doesn’t mean something like that applies in this case, but anyone who’s dealt with this issue realizes that they’re going up against BHO supporters.

    CaptainSmartass fails to note that a) all we’ve seen is a picture on a web site (one of which has since disappeared off the web), and b) despite what you’ve heard, that picture has never been verified to match what’s on file in HI. This is a common bluff, and it’s one that Weigel employed. For all we know, “CaptainSmartass” might be Weigel.

  89. 24AheadDotCom:

    The birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers were never placed by parents. they were always placed automatically by the State Department of Health. So yes, it is prima facie evidence of his birth in Honolulu (the entire list of births were all in Honolulu and printed in the paper of record).

    Admit it, this isn’t about where Obama was born, it’s about what color his skin is.

  90. Isaac Bartram: don’t waste my time. Before speaking to this matter, read what I’ve written and try to understand what my goal is. Crikey: there’s even a post on my front page explaining the goal. What follows “what part of” on my front page?

    Also, perhaps someone could explain this. I’d never do something like that, and the last thing I’d do is do it silently. Yet, that’s what they did.

  91. Not to break your heart lw, but my post is for birthers in general and just not for you. So, no, I have no clue of what you want the outcome to be. Pardon my ignorance, but please explain.

    A link to the Pro-McCain resolution? Not exactly sure what that even means.

  92. Using the announcements as proof would involve getting sworn statements from those at the DOH, hospitals, and newspapers all confirming that the announcements could only indicate a HI birth.

    No, given the presumption that the announcements do indicate a birth in HI proving that they do not would require getting sworn statements to the contrary from those you mention.

    Maybe even just a tiny bit of credible evidence would help.

    Another hint: you can’t just fabricate an obvious total fiction and then demand that people give it credence.

  93. If “CaptainSmartass” isn’t Weigel, why is he using the same arguments? You can see and hear Weigel saying the same things here and here.

    I outlined above what would be necessary to turn the announcements into actual, legally-acceptable proof so I’m not going to repeat myself. Simply asserting something as a fact without supporting documentation is not proof.

    As for “CaptainSmartass” playing the race card, perhaps libertarians might want to think twice about supporting that and other far-left tricks.

  94. Isaac Bartram: in a real court of law with a competent lawyer who wants to win, the announcements would be shredded into tiny little pieces. The only reason they’re presented as proof is because BHO supporters are willing to lie and others aren’t capable of understanding what they’re doing.

  95. It amuses me to think that anyone believes a non-binding resolution of Congress resolves any issue, legal or factual.

    It amuses me even more to have Obama supporters citing National Review as a source.

    This is bullshit, as his birth certificate clearly states he was born in Hawaii and the birth announcement in the local paper clearly states he was born in Honolulu.

    His birth certificate hasn’t been released. What we have is a certification from the State of Hawaii, to the effect that they have some paperwork somewhere, that they aren’t showing anyone, but have seen, honest, that he was born there. That paperwork could be an affidavit from his mother or grandmother.

    I am just dying to know why the contemporaneous certificate from the hospital where he was delivered hasn’t been released.

    The contemporaneous birth announcements would have been based on the list of births issued by the Hawaii Department of Health. Pretty good evidence, sure, but not as definitive as the actual birth certificate. The Just One Minute blog is your go-to source for this stuff, although Maguire hasn’t put up the definitive discussion of applicable citizenship laws that I have been hoping for.

    Which hasn’t been released. I wonder why not? Hospitals never, never throw them away. Have any Honolulu hospitals burned down since the ’60s? If not, the original still exists at the hospital. I’ve never heard of a state that doesn’t keep at least a microfiche of all their birth certificates, either.

    The Truth is Out There.

  96. I’d prefer to think that I’m also the go-to source for this stuff, at least for the aspect that I’ve been covering for over a year in over 50 posts.

    Anywhoo, since I’m not getting an avalanche of hits out of this and I’ve got other things to do, I might check back in later. If anyone wants to see my argument and is willing to try to understand it, see the links I posted above.

  97. Why has Lonewacko never produced his actual birth certificate?

  98. don’t waste my time.

    Don’t blame me. Your whole fucking life is a waste of time.

    And don’t bitch about anyone not answering questions.

    SugarFree

    I think LoeWhacko’s secret shame is that he was born in a back alley behind a Tijuana strip club.

    (And the only reason I didn’t make that more offensive and insulting is that I don’t have enough imagination.) 🙂

  99. Here, Issac, let me:

    What I can’t understand is why use the secret Illuminati time machine to fake up the birth announcement and certificate when they could have gone and interrupted that escaped retard circus midget while he was raping that poor septic tank and therefore prevented the birth of their racist piece of shit MostDangerousCritic and stop his YouTudeJihad in its tracks.

  100. Isaac Bartram @ 3:07 wrote:

    I think LoeWhacko’s secret shame is that he was born in a back alley behind a Tijuana strip club.

    Well, at least that would make him half-American.

  101. @Sparky
    I know Arthurs father wasn’t a citizen and many people then and now think he was a usurper. He, like Obama, tried very hard to obscure the facts of his birth. As for the others, were their parents non-citizens, or just foreign born naturalized citizens? If they were naturalized before the birth then everything is all good. Please post a link showing proof of Presidents with NON-CITIZEN parents.

    @Isaac Bartram
    The court in Wong Kim Ark concluded that he was only a CITIZEN. It specifically said that the question of whether he was an NBC was immaterial to the case and was not decided.

  102. Aresen, was it the Blue Burro bar? If so, that would make him half assed by birth.

  103. Please post a link showing proof of Presidents with NON-CITIZEN parents.

    Including George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?

  104. @R C DEan

    Really? Why do you want to make yourself look like a moron? They were grandfathered in under Article 2. Sheesh.

  105. I hope none of the birthers were the same people entertaining the idea of changing the constitution so that Gov. Schwarzenegger could run for president.

    This thing is stupid on so many levels. Not only has the conspiracy theory been debunked, birthers act as if the burden of proof is on others rather than them. What’s their evidence? A chain email?

    Courts dismiss claims against Obama because a) it’s ridiculous and b) nobody really has a legitimate claim that they are harmed and thus nobody has standing to sue on “natural born citizen” grounds.

    All this bluster in support of a provision of the constitution nobody considers all that vital or relevant, and which many were perfectly willing to toss aside as long as the non-natural-born guy was a member of the GOP. I’d just like to visit the alternate universe where McCain was elected and see if there would be a similar uproar over. Hawaii actually is a state after all, unlike Panama.

  106. Greetings, my friend. We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future. You are interested in the unknown… the mysterious. The unexplainable. That is why you are here. And now, for the first time, we are bringing to you, the full story of what happened on that fateful day. We are bringing you all the evidence, based only on the secret testimony, of the miserable souls, who survived this terrifying ordeal. The incidents, the places. My friend, we cannot keep this a secret any longer. Let us punish the guilty. Let us reward the innocent. My friend, can your heart stand the shocking facts of birth certificate shredders from outer space?

  107. I think it awesome that on a libertarian website we have posters shilling on behalf of legal technicalities (that are dubious at best) in order to reduce individual freedom.

    Bravo

  108. From a libertarian perspective, should not the proponent of (1) any state action or (2) the projection of state power or (3) the claim to any public sector position have the heavy burden of establishing that the framers specifically and unambiguously blessed their position?

    That being the case, the term natural born citizen should be narrowly construed to mean only those born in the continental US or Alaska and Hawaii.

  109. No, jayhawker, I think you have it backwards. Indibvidaul freedom is better served by chaining government to the constitution and the principles of 1776. Individual freedom is not enhanced by disregarding original intent. It most certainly is not enhanced by dismissing concerns and questions of those who want to check the legitimacy of a racist, stuttering socialist community organizer who has no problem taking your money and freedom.

  110. It depends on which “libertarian position” you mean.

    Do you mean do I support that government bureaucrats and paperwork determine who is a citizen instead of the individual getting to choose which country they belong to?

    Then no, what you suggest is not my position.
    And I am still confused about this phrase “natural born citizen”

    You act as if the framers gave a hard definition of “natural born citizen.” They did not, which is why congress has on multiple occasions made changes/clarification to the definition.

  111. jayjayhawker

    There are only three things libertarians find absolutely abhorrent: initiatory use of force, threats of force and fraud. If Obama is committing some kind of fraud then that is a serious problem.

  112. libertymike @ 3:53

    That being the case, the term natural born citizen should be narrowly construed to mean only those born in the continental US or Alaska and Hawaii.

    Personally, I have always interpreted “natural born” by the other meaning that it had in the 18th century: Bastardry. IOW, only bastards can be POTUS.

  113. “Individual freedom is better served by chaining government to the constitution and the principles of 1776”

    Like slavery, or the fact that only a narrow % of the population could vote.

  114. Icetrey,

    Yes, you are trying to use violence (in this case the law…which is very muddled on the subject) to prevent someone to be voted into elected office and you are using this same law (act of violence) to determine who is a citzein.

    libertymike,
    Please, don’t get me wrong. Obama sucks ass. I largely agree with your assessment of him. Do not think that I am trying to defend him

  115. jayjayhawker

    The reason they didn’t give a specific definition was because when it was included they all understood what it meant. It was “common knowledge” at the time. Actually Congress has never made any changes or clarifications that’s why it is unclear exactly who is or isn’t a natural born. There are no laws or court cases defining natural born.

  116. The birther movement: another attempt to make racism look legitimate, or another coup attempt because a Democrat got elected? With Clinton, his roving penis was enough to try to undermine the legitimately elected president. Obama’s no philanderer, so they’ve gotta find something they can latch onto. After all, not only is he a Dem but he is black, therefore he can’t be allowed to do his job, and everyone who voted for him is a traitor.

  117. No. I’m using RETALIATORY force against someone who is perpetrating a fraud. Very different thing.

  118. IceTrey,

    Actually you’re slandering the president because you’re a racist asshole who can’t fathom that most of the country can elect a black man as president.

    And to back up this claim, here I present exactly as much evidence as you have for yours:

  119. jayjayhawker | July 29, 2009, 4:06pm | #

    Please, don’t get me wrong. Obama sucks ass.

    In that case, I have a few friends who frequent The Blue Rattlesnake Bar & Grill who would like to meet him.

  120. Ice Trey

    If Wong Kim Ark was a citizen by virtue of birth and not in need of naturalization would that not make him a “natural born citizen”.

    That being the case, the term natural born citizen should be narrowly construed to mean only those born in the continental US or Alaska and Hawaii.

    Congress apparently disagrees. And it is they, not you, who have been empowered by the COTUS to enact legislation in these matters. It is one thing to argue that they use their powers badly, it is another to argue that they don’t have them.

    As far as I’m concerned a “natural born citizen” is one who does not need to acquire citizenship through naturalization. Seems pretty straight forward and obvious to me.

  121. The answer to the mystery is clear to anyone that has not been blinded by the establishment or MSM. The Barack Obama of the future, inspired after a month long binge of bong hits, LSD and Philip K. Dick novels used alien technology stolen from Area 51 by Muslim scientists to build a time machine. He then traveled back in time, arriving a few days prior to his original birth in Kenya and convinced his mother to fly to Hawaii. This allowed him to be born for the second time in Honolulu, place the birth announcements in the newspapers and travel forward in time to run for and be elected president. Once he was elected, he was forced to immediately begin diverting billions of dollars of “stimulus funds” so he could pay the Muslims for the creation of the time machine that allowed him to alter his birthplace and become president.

  122. Tony

    What’s with the name calling? Really it makes you look bad. You don’t know me. For all you know I’M black. As for evidence I’ve already posted what I consider to be the definition of natural born citizen. It comes from Vattell’s “The Law of Nations”, “natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.”. Feel free to disagree as at this point it’s all opinion, but really enough with the name calling it’s unseemly.

  123. Birthers = Itelligent designers
    No evidence needed for these jackasses

  124. If birthers were actually concerned about the health of their nation, they would be desperately attempting to find evidence against their claim, since, it seems to me, our society would not handle an attempted coup well, that putting to rest fears that the president is not eligible to serve would indeed be good for the country–especially since this eligibility requirement has long been recognized as less than vital in importance to good governing.

    But no, they don’t like that a Dem is in office, and once again they’re throwing the kitchen sink at him because they didn’t get their way in an election. They’re acting like whiny children who didn’t get their way. The fact that he’s black I’m sure turns up the paranoia dial by some degree.

    Don’t worry, birthers, your time will come again. I’m sure in a few election cycles we’ll elect another warmongering, torturing, debt-exploding, indefinitely detaining, corporate welfare providing good white Christian Republican.

  125. As for why he wouldn’t release the version with more information, there are two possibilities:

    There’s one better possibility – he’s messing with folks. The birther controversy works completely in Obama’s favor. Even conservatives who hate Obama are embarrassed by the birther crowd. The more attention birthers get, the more Obama’s opponents look like racist whack-jobs, and that’s what Obama wants. I’ve always suspected Bush’s people of subtly helping the Truthers to make Bush’s opponents look like idiots, and Palin’s stonewalling on Trig’s birth helped divert attention to the nasty controversy theorists and away from her thin credentials. This seems to be how modern politics is played – hand the opposition a really stupid conspiracy theory, I mean so blindingly stupid that no normal person would ever believe it, and get their fringe all revved up. Seems to be working pretty well.

  126. If “CaptainSmartass” isn’t Weigel, why is he using the same arguments? You can see and hear Weigel saying the same things here and here.

    Um, maybe because whoever that guys is and I are both logical, reasonable people, capable of coming to the same conclusions from the same evidence?

    (Actually, the truth is I’m part of the conspiracy. But don’t tell anyone, it’s a secret.)

  127. There’s one better possibility – he’s messing with folks.

    If so, he’s only getting away with it because his opposition is completely incompetent; they’re too dumb (and other things) to figure out how to use this issue to their advantage. They just want to collect their checks from their front organizations and then go watch [insert name of a TV show here].

    Even conservatives who hate Obama are embarrassed by the birther crowd.

    So embarrassed that they print and then so far refuse to correct outrageous lies.

  128. If so, he’s only getting away with it because his opposition is completely incompetent

    Um, aren’t you his opposition on this matter?

    QED.

  129. …My friend, can your heart stand the shocking facts of birth certificate shredders from outer space?

    (Just in case, reference explained here.)

  130. Isaac

    If you had read my post and/or the Ark case you would have seen that the Justices state IN THE CASE that the question of whether he was an NBC or not is immaterial and was NOT decided. Now you have your opinion of what an NBC is. I disagree with you. That’s my opinion. As far as Congress goes, they have not enacted ANY legislation that specifically defines the phrase “natural born citizen”. If you look at all of the current laws concerning citizenship you will not find the words “natural born” anywhere. As for citizenship there are two types of citizens, US citizens and natural born citizens. To be a US citizen one can be naturalized, have one citizen parent or be born on US soil. To be a natural born citizen you must be born on US soil and both of your parents must be citizens.

  131. Orly Taitz, mentioned above, was on the Colbert Report last night and flat out stated that there was NO POSSIBLE evidence that would make her change her mind and back off her claims.

  132. My father worked in the Pentagon in the 1960’s, and he said that after seeing such gross incompetence he could never believe those idiots could organize any sort of conspiracy.

  133. Can someone post a link to a site with images of the birth certificates of the past 20 presidents?

  134. Her given name is O RLY?

    And 24aHead, you’re a dreadful bore.

  135. “2) …If birthers aren’t satisfied with that one, they won’t be satisfied with the longer one, so why bother releasing it even if he does have a copy?”
    I

    t is so easy to dismiss legitimate concerns by labeling the concerned as “kooks” and dismissing their concerns as absurd. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a conspiracy to persuade believers to act in order to preserve their beliefs. They simply dismiss the other side. That they don’t have to even acknowledge the other sides arguments or concerns. I have questions about Obama’s birthplace but I am not convinced he is not qualifed to be president because of his place of birth.
    I, as one who questions his legitimacy, would be satisfied with the release of the long form.

  136. Vanya
    So the conspiracies are false, but there are conspiracies to make it LOOK like there are conspiracies?
    Well for one you would not be the first to suggest that.
    But two, those conspiracies don’t exist for the same reason the other conspiracies don’t exist. You’d have to keep too many people silent.

  137. If there are real conspiracies, no one remains silent forever. Walter Haut, the Public Relations Officer as Rosewell, signed a notarized affidavit to be read after his death about the reality of Roswell. The RAF officer in charge of the Rendlesheim Incident in the U.K. has also come forward.

  138. Sorry, Doug, but an affidavit from the guy who appears to have fabricated the whole story in the first place hardly counts as evidence.

  139. I don’t know which fills me with more glee-the fact that the birther BS refuses to die and big-name Republicans don’t dismiss it out of hand, or the fact that Sarah Palin might be the Republican nominee for President in 2012.

    The Republicans are way beyond shooting themselves in the foot. They are now repetitively firing a shotgun at their groin.

    It doesn’t matter if the economy doesn’t recover. It doesn’t matter what the public thinks about the Democrat’s health plan. If the choice is between a sane person (namely, the Democrat running in any particular race), who you may or may not agree with on the issues, and a batshit crazy lunatic, everybody who is not also a batshit crazy lunatic will pick the sane person, even if they disagree on some or all of their policy positions.

  140. I’ll pick a crazed birther who otherwise believes in property rights and limited government over the “sane” big spending centralized government advocate any day.

    (Of course, while we have plenty of the latter from which to choose, I’m still looking for that former.)

  141. The time lines, places, actions, motives, when analyzed, support, and are consistent with, what is the answer to the Obama birth puzzle:

    Obama’s grandmother is his mother and his mother is his sister.

    Think about it. Review all the facts and claims.

  142. Just because one popular conspiracy theory is foolish doesn’t mean that all popular conspiracy theories are foolish. Just because the president (current or former) is/was a dunce doesn’t mean there aren’t smarter men behind the scenes calling the shots. geez.

  143. “Then again, this conspiracy movement, like others before it, should be placed in its proper context, which is to say, it never should be taken seriously.”

    When did Reason become a tool of the state serving to repress the free thinking search for the truth?

    The author and the editors should be ashamed of themselves.

  144. Those who do not trust the pontifications of media gatekeepers are respectable.

  145. My only point is that if you take the Bible straight, as I’m sure many of Reasons readers do, you will see a lot of the Old Testament stuff as absolutely insane. Even some cursory knowledge of Hebrew and doing some mathematics and logic will tell you that you really won’t get the full deal by just doing regular skill english reading for those books. In other words, there’s more to the books of the Bible than most will ever grasp. I’m not concerned that Mr. Crumb will go to hell or anything crazy like that! It’s just that he, like many types of religionists, seems to take it literally, take it straight…the Bible’s books were not written by straight laced divinity students in 3 piece suits who white wash religious beliefs as if God made them with clothes on…the Bible’s books were written by people with very different mindsets…in order to really get the Books of the Bible, you have to cultivate such a mindset, it’s literally a labyrinth, that’s no joke

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