Politics

The Secret of Palin's Staying Power

Why sex appeal matters in politics

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In October 2005, when President Bush announced his nominee for the Supreme Court seat being vacated by Sandra Day O'Connor, conservatives who had been loyal to the administration rose up in perfectly reasonable fury. Harriet Miers was not their idea of a Supreme Court justice. She was, they noted, intellectually undistinguished, ill-qualified for the job, lacking impeccable conservative credentials and inept in handling basic constitutional questions.

All those things, of course, could also have been said about Sarah Palin. But just as quickly and vigorously as conservatives rejected Miers, they embraced Palin. Even after her bungling performance in the 2008 campaign and her strange decision to resign as governor of Alaska, some of them still do.

"This unusual move might be the right move for her to become president of the United States," insisted William Kristol, editor of The Weekly Standard. Columnist Jonah Goldberg assured the governor that no matter what, "You are the 'It Girl' of the GOP." National Review editor Jay Nordlinger confessed, "I am an admirer and defender of Palin's. Oh, what the heck: I love the woman."

Why on earth are they infatuated with her? Palin has hardly helped to revive the conservative cause. For all her alleged star power, she did nothing to improve the GOP ticket's fortunes on Election Day. She showed no gift for articulating conservative themes, beyond ridiculing liberals as overeducated, big-city elitists—a description that applies equally well to most conservative commentators.

In two months on the ticket, she boosted her unfavorable rating from 7 percent to 48 percent, while the unlovable Joe Biden ended up viewed negatively by only 32 percent of Americans. Finally, last week, she gave a pitifully incoherent explanation of why she was stepping down as governor of Alaska with a year and a half left in her term—which you might think would mortify anyone who put his faith in her.

But it's really not hard to see why Palin inspires such devotion. And I do mean "see." She has one obvious thing going for her that Miers didn't: She's a babe, and she doesn't try to hide it.

As an article in the latest issue of Vanity Fair puts it, Palin "is by far the best-looking woman ever to rise to such heights in national politics." And while that fact doesn't earn her points with me, it obviously does with many other people.

It's hard to exaggerate how valuable a pleasing appearance can be. Numerous studies show that people rated good-looking make more money than those who are not so easy on the eyes. In the modern media age, the same effect holds in politics.

Good looks are a big advantage to male politicians as well. No one would have given the time of day to John Edwards or Mitt Romney if they were short, paunchy, and bald. When Texas Republican Sen. Phil Gramm ran for president in 1996, he said, "The real question is whether someone as ugly as I am can be elected." He got his answer.

Palin is a clear rebuttal to the old line that politics is show business for ugly people. Tina Fey, who is pretty enough to make it in Hollywood, marveled after meeting Palin on Saturday Night Live, "I'll tell you, that lady is five times better-looking than I am."

This may explain why, for all the talk about her as the stirring embodiment of the Walmart-shopping hockey mom, Palin's fans are heavily male. A June poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that her approval rating was 48 percent among men but only 41 percent among women. Females are less susceptible to feminine charms.

Palin is not alone in using her looks to enchant the Republican faithful. Carrie Prejean went from being a runner-up for Miss USA to a conservative heroine because she came out against gay marriage in her pageant interview—but also because she wears a bikini well. Ann Coulter would be just another rabid pit bull if not for the long hair and short skirts.

Harriet Miers' problem was that she couldn't overcome her deficiencies with sex appeal. When people remain ardent fans of Palin no matter how badly she performs, it's reasonable to wonder what they are thinking. But thinking has nothing to do with it.

COPYRIGHT 2009 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.

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  1. If Palin is the best the GOP has to offer, even if she’s in the Top 10, Democrats will rule forever.

    Although I’d take 100 ugly Palins before anyone named Bush.

    I pray to Obama. Prayer changes things.

  2. The power of stupidity and boobies is not a secret, you stupid booby!

  3. better than bush. better than obama.

    though admittedly, that’s setting the bar low.

  4. “She was, they noted, intellectually undistinguished, ill-qualified for the job, lacking impeccable conservative credentials and inept in handling basic constitutional questions.

    All those things, of course, could also have been said about Sarah Palin.”

    Great, I can’t wait to read about reasons why these things could be said about Sarah Palin

    [2 minutes later]

    where’s the rest of the article?

  5. I dunno… The more crazy Washington insiders and the media thinks find her, the more I like her. She drives them bonkers and that’s good enough for me. I really don’t think she’s stupid, I just think she moves differently than we are programmed to accept from our political figures.

    Real people look dumb on TV. Ever watch your local news?! Politics aside, I think we could use more real people in power.

  6. several weeks ago, a good friend in Juneau observed that Alaska politics were pretty much at a stalemate, that Palin had pissed off the state legislature to the point that nothing was getting done.
    (picking up on the Sanford thread) and this is bad why????
    Palin for President!

  7. My mother, hardcore career woman/mother of four, loves Sarah Palin, and it has nothing to do with the way she looks; she feels like she can see herself in that woman. Ladies really can have it all: healthy marriage, kids, a meaningful job. This isn’t about a babe, it’s about a dream.

    Now, I don’t like Sarah. She’s endeared herself to me a tiny bit now that Obama is destroying everything about this country I love, but about half of the things she believes creep me out while the other half I don’t feel comfortable keeping in her safety. She’s no libertarian champion, obviously. But I do wish writers would just leave the subject alone. For five seconds. For the love of god. Please. I’m so frickin’ over it.

  8. When people remain ardent fans of Palin no matter how badly she performs, it’s reasonable to wonder what they are thinking. But thinking has nothing to do with it.

    Precisely.

  9. For all her alleged star power, she did nothing to improve the GOP ticket’s fortunes on Election Day. She showed no gift for articulating conservative themes, beyond ridiculing liberals as overeducated, big-city elitists-a description that applies equally well to most conservative commentators.

    Since you are not a conservative, it seems strange that you set the bar for “articulating conservative themes”.

    As for her not improving GOP fortunes on Election day you are greatly underestimating the number of voters, myself included, who did not vote for McCain, but for Palin. I think that another long time Washingtonian as McCains VP would have left the election even more lopsided. Just because they didn’t win doesn’t mean she didn’t affect the race in a positive fashion.

    Why? Because she is nice to look at? No. Because she is a genius? No. I voted for Palin because she has never lived in the cesspool that is Washington DC. The whole first hundred names in a phone book being better than those elected to the Senate, thingy.

    You would think Libertarians would understand that having a less than genius President is much better than almost any politician who has lost their souls in Washington.

    All the comments about how she is unqualified, or not curious should read, “She isn’t like all of the other Ivy League shit heads that run”

  10. I voted for Palin because she has never lived in the cesspool that is Washington DC.

    Great reason, Marshall. Please go get a lobotomy.

  11. You know, it’s really funny to hear journalists’ and pundits’ thoughts on her appeal. They really don’t get it at all! And yes, Chapman, that means you too!

    I’ll agree there’s a lot of charm that goes into it, but for the most part, it’s not a sexual charm. Middle America finds normalcy charming. Hell, even city people do, that’s why they take vacations where the pace is a lot slower. You guys are trying to grade her based upon the conventional picture of what Washington has become. She won’t show up on that scale – we understand that.

    Now, for my taste, her religious views get too involved in her politics, but it is so damned refreshing to see a real person in power instead of the typical automatons that that normally get elected.

  12. Great reason, Marshall. Please go get a lobotomy.

    Nearly sprayed my monitor with smoothie there.

  13. Reductionist. He basically tells us Palin is cute and so she is popular. All these boys who think they are smarter than Palin because they went to better schools or have a larger vocabulary fail to acknowledge or even realize that as a (political) entrepreneur she eclipses them, which is why she wins elections and they sit in cubicles.

    Roger Simon in Politica and Stanley Fish in the New York Times were better.

  14. Sarah’s gonna be so pissed when she reads this.

  15. Marc sounds like a perfect example. A little chihuahua who thinks that his on-line commentary on Palin will somehow make him virile and significant.

    Palin seems to excite leftoid men, who have been licensed by their leaders and their culture to let their true and worst natures out, enacting the full “The Accused”/Bosnian rape camp guard potential that they have had to keep under wraps until now. Rape jokes, retard jokes, incest jokes, sex with kids jokes,”I got wood” riffs, all allowed from Letterman on down. Much like those racist cartoons depicting Condi Rice in unflattering tableaux the left circulated in yahoogroups a few years ago.

    Scum.

  16. I think a huge part of Palin’s appeal is that she chose to live by her principles on abortion, even under circumstances where most people would find it difficult. Even for those of us who don’t care much about the abortion issue, that speaks volumes about her character.

    I’m starting to get really disenchanted with Steve Chapman’s articles. When I see his name on an article, I have come to expect vapid, poorly thought out fare, and I can’t recall when he last exceeded my expectations.

  17. Don’t forget JFK. Expectations of “looks” started with that bleeding heart after the winning the debate against Nixon–only from the TV viewer.

  18. I think we will all be better off once Palin goes and crawls back under that rock from which she emerged!

    Russ
    http://www.real-anonymity.pro.tc

  19. This isn’t analysis. It’s the digitial equivalent of fish-wrap material. It’s Chapman acting out his pathology: a personal lust for Palin which is evident throughout the piece. He personally can’t see her as anything other than a sexual object, so therefore those who support must feel the same way.

    Hey Chapman. Do everyone (including yourself) a favor, grab a Kleenex and hit the bathroom before you sit down to write another “analysis” piece. Maybe you’ll “relieve a little pressure,” and it won’t be quite so obvious where your issues lie.

    “Palin’s fans are heavily male. A June poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that her approval rating was 48 percent among men but only 41 percent among women.”

    Umm…First, a 7% gap isn’t “heavily male.” Second, the Republican party is more male than female, so (Hello Moron!) any candidate generally popular with Republicans is going to be majority male.

    ” Carrie Prejean went from being a runner-up for Miss USA to a conservative heroine because she came out against gay marriage in her pageant interview-but also because she wears a bikini well.”

    Lie. She was a conservative heroine because she answered from her convictions even if it was going to cost her the crown after being the victim of an ambush question clearly designed to do little more than draw media attention to its misogynist author. It’s called moral courage.

    “All those things, of course, could also have been said about Sarah Palin.”

    So says Chapman who thinks of Palin as a slightly more mature Playboy bunny rather than giving her the respect she has earned as a sitting Governor of the largest state in the union. Proof? Chapman doesn’t need proof, he has his fantasies of being with an empty-headed woman that it would take to put up with his own empty head.

    ” For all her alleged star power, she did nothing to improve the GOP ticket’s fortunes on Election Day.”

    Again, asserted without any factual evidence to back it up, and – at the very least – plenty of anecdotal evidence to the exact contrary. But Chapman needs to demean the object of his lust so that she is attainable, so he once again makes an assertion based on nothing more than his own fantasies.

    “In two months on the ticket, she boosted her unfavorable rating from 7 percent to 48 percent, ”

    She did that? She did? It didn’t have anything at all to do with Axelrod sending out the attack dogs to claim that Trig wasn’t her son? Nothing to do with dishonest, partisan hack editing of her interviews with Couric and Gibson, nothing to do with writers like Chapman looking past her accomplishments and only seeing her gender? It didn’t have anything to do with a media which has admitted that it did everything possible to elect Obama? Really? It was all Palin’s fault that her disapproval rating went up? Where’s is the mention that she is now net positive 45/44? Inconvenient facts getting in the way of your fantasy of a weak woman again.

    Sad, pathetic little man. Do yourself a favor and avoid writing about Palin in the future. You’ll only embarrass yourself again.

  20. I’m starting to get really disenchanted with Steve Chapman’s articles.

    You were enchanted in the first place?

  21. I wonder what the educational background, experience, and cultural views of the ideal Libertarian presidential candidate would look like? I’m not sure we’ve had the “ideal” one yet.

    Would it combine the business and entreprenuerial experience of the Whole Foods guy, with the folksy wisdom, non-Ivy league education and public service of Ron Paul, the foreign policy outlook of a Leonard Liggio, and Ed Crane’s wonkish think-tank contacts, along with Mary Ruwart’s touchy-feely vibes while still retaining Bumper Hornberger’s passion and radicalism?

  22. Chapman is a fool, as are all of you that think Palin is unqualified to be president.

    She is a hell of a lot more qualified than Biden or that asshole Obama. Add Hillery to the Biden Omama mix also. That woman was only elelcted Senator because her husband was president.

    Of course I think she (Palin) probably distroyed her chances by leaving office before she served her term.

  23. Harriet Miers, they noted, was intellectually undistinguished, ill-qualified for the job, lacking impeccable conservative credentials, and inept in handling basic constitutional questions.

    Today, writes Steve Chapman, the same things could be said about Sarah Palin.

    Palin was elected governor, was Miers on a state supreme court?

    George W Bush also was intellectually indistinguished, ill-qualified, and inept in many ways, yet unfortunately her still was elected.

    And don’t forget Bush is an ivy leaguer.

  24. Palin is basically Pat Robertson with sex appeal. A fundy nutcase thrown as a hail mary to the Rs base of fundy nutcases by the McCain campaign. Her winking at the camera and general airheadedness will be the death of the GOP, all the while thier huge fundy base cheering her on.

  25. The neckbeard of Comic Book Guy, the physique of William H. Taft, the charm of Robert “specialization is for insects” Heinlein, the hygiene of Pigpen, the sports acumen of a naked mole rat, and the personality of a billionaire who can trace his family back to Roman nobility.

  26. creech,

    I think it’s a Catch-22. Anyone who wants to be President is automatically unsuitable for the job due to megalomania. Anyone electable as a President has already traded away anything resembling a commitment to individual rights, because they don’t sell to the gimme gimme gimme mob. And, most sadly, no libertarian will ever get even a majority of libertarian votes because of sectarianism.

  27. OTOH given the intelligence of the average voter she could be just one wardrobe malfunction away from national office.

  28. I voted for Palin because she has never lived in the cesspool that is Washington DC.

    Great reason, Marshall. Please go get a lobotomy.

    I think that the Obama voters have left a 1 year waiting list for that procedure.

    Considering you apparent belief that politicians who spend their lives in DC are anything but self-serving scum bags it appears that you were one of the first lobotomized.

    Even as ignorant as you appear to be, YOU, ANYONE, is better than a career shit bag.

  29. ktc2,

    How many kids has she had? I beg her to keep her clothes on.

  30. ktc2, Nice try, but I’m no republican. I disagree with many of her social issues, but I like her as a person. I know she doesn’t play well on TV, but you are missing the point.

    (of course no matter how often you hear you’re missing the point, you still don’t get it)

    She’s real. She’s not a seasoned politician. This is what a lot of “regular” folks want. Seasoned politicians have brought us crap.


  31. And don’t forget Bush is an ivy leaguer.

    It’s almost like some people get into Ivy League schools not because they’re unusually intelligent and capable, but because they have rich and powerful daddies. Imagine that. Where’s my fucking meritocracy?

    Bush is a pretty good example of this, but so is probably every politician.

  32. …the respect she has earned as a sitting Governor of the largest state in the union.

    Your doublethink is showing.

  33. She’s real. She’s not a seasoned politician.

    She’s also a shameless moron.

  34. Chapman misses the point.

    The reactions, pro and con, to Sarah Palin have everything to do with class, status, and (for lack of a better word) style.

    The libs hate her with the fury of a thousand suns because she didn’t go to the right schools and cocktail parties, and lived a life that contrasts sharply with theirs (small town, kids, husband who works with his hands, etc.).

    The cons love her for the same reasons.

    Miers, by contrast, was an insider, and so the debate was on different grounds altogether.

  35. “I think it’s a Catch-22. Anyone who wants to be President is automatically unsuitable for the job due to megalomania. Anyone electable as a President has already traded away anything resembling a commitment to individual rights, because they don’t sell to the gimme gimme gimme mob. And, most sadly, no libertarian will ever get even a majority of libertarian votes because of sectarianism.”

    You can just close the thread because Sucralose just won it.

  36. Right on, Tony. These guys just don’t get that.

  37. Tony 9:45

    She’s real. She’s not a seasoned politician.

    She’s also I am a shameless moron.

    FTFY

  38. SugarFree | July 9, 2009, 9:37am | #

    +1. Nothing against Palin personally, but don’t presidents and presidential candidates a bit too much like rock stars?

  39. I second kyle about sugar. a brilliant observation.

  40. I may be a moron but at least I’m not a self-labeled libertarian falling over himself to defend that shameless right-wing authoritarian moron Sarah Palin. There is something seriously wrong with your news consumption habits if you think she is competent enough to do any job with real power over other people.

    She’s just another failed affirmative action Republican whose entire political platform seems to consist of whining about how the media treats her. Can you name something else she stands for? (One could say the same about her entire party, though)

    I mean for fuck’s sake have you listened to her speak? After 8 years of that brain-damaged imp George W. Bush most of the country has come around to valuing competence in leaders over a reassuring, aw-shucks personality. Not here, though, by god.

  41. Chapman is the idiot who admitted he voted for Obama because he is black. It is not surprising he thinks everyone else is as shallow a thinker as he is.

    I did not vote for Palin and would perfer not to but if my choice is between her and the anit-intellectual Obama then it would be an easy choice.

  42. Art-P.O.G.,

    It’s the ultimate triumph of celebrity culture. People like celebrities because they strive to see themselves in them, to rationalize the even the dimmest reflection as a complete representation. The blanker the celebrity, the cleaner the mirror, the easier it is for one to see themselves cast back without the distort of grim reality. Palin and Obama both are blank slates that signal just enough partisanship to trigger both positive and negative recognition in the public along the party lines.

    I’m not foolish enough to expect a candidate of any real substance to be electable, but I won’t pick and side out of partisanship a lie about the emperor having a fine suit of clothes on.

  43. “It’s the ultimate triumph of celebrity culture. People like celebrities because they strive to see themselves in them, to rationalize the even the dimmest reflection as a complete representation. The blanker the celebrity, the cleaner the mirror, the easier it is for one to see themselves cast back without the distort of grim reality. Palin and Obama both are blank slates that signal just enough partisanship to trigger both positive and negative recognition in the public along the party lines.”

    Damn man. You’re ripping it up this morning. The above is really insightful. At least in my opinion.

  44. “The libs hate her with the fury of a thousand suns because she didn’t go to the right schools and cocktail parties, and lived a life that contrasts sharply with theirs (small town, kids, husband who works with his hands, etc.”

    Given that a large portion of the left is tied up in unions and blue-collar workers, I have to say I don’t agree with this assessment. and Jimmy Carter didn’t go to Yale and was a farmer (worked with his hands, I don’t know).

    I think Sarah Palin’s schtick is that she wants so badly to be a victim of the liberal elite for all the reasons you elucidate. But the “you betcha” small-town-girl act wore thin after a few weeks. I lean Republican, but why would I vote for somebody who gets up on stage and criticizes every aspect of my life?

    At some point, being a heartland honey and victim of the establishment has to translate into some sort of positive goal. Politicians have such goals, and get elected to office to achieve those goals. They don’t run out of ideas and quit. You can only stand for an ideal for so long before people start asking about action and plans. Just ask the professional Hopers about that (good looking president, stands for hope and change, actual job performance: meh.)

  45. Wow, it’s been a while since I’ve see so many straw men constructed on one thread. Well Done!

    One thing I have to say to the people defending her because she is a “real person”: bullshit. As soon as you run for national office on a serious ticket, you lose any basis to call yourself that.

  46. Chapman is completely off base here.

    It seems funny to say this about Chapman, but he’s actually way, way overthinking this. Yeah, I said it: claiming that people like Palin for superficial reasons related to her looks is actually an overanalysis.

    Palin has defenders because she ended up as the VP candidate and temporary face of the pseudoconservative movement, and while she was in that position a lot of people aggressively committed to defending her – and now those people can’t back down, because that would involve admitting that they were either wrong, or deliberately full of shit for electoral purposes.

    There’s no reason to try to puzzle out why these pundits like Palin, because it’s not really about Palin. It’s about the pundits themselves. They know what her flaws are, and simply refuse to admit them, because during the election they claimed those flaws didn’t exist. Pretending she’s not a flake and rube made its way onto the checklist of things you have to pretend in order to maintain establishment conservative credentials, and now that it’s on the checklist none of these guys will ever back down. It could be revealed that Palin is a robot controlled from within by retarded Mexican midgets and they wouldn’t back down, but would just write paeans to the simple folksy wisdom of Mexican retards and the humility and compassion one learns by being a midget.

  47. Kyle,

    I give all the credit to the fact that I am procrastinating on doing a work project I really, really, really hate. This level of desperation focuses the mind.

  48. R C has it.

    If you accept all the rationalizations of people who hate Palin only out of tribal and visceral reaction as reasons (drink?), then try to discern her appeal, you can’t.

  49. As to the actual thread subject, Fluffy nails it.

  50. Anyone electable as a President has already traded away anything resembling a commitment to individual rights, because they don’t sell to the gimme gimme gimme mob. And, most sadly, no libertarian will ever get even a majority of libertarian votes because of sectarianism.

    I agree with this statement but I also think it is a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Since there are no national Libertarians, I think it is more rational to vote for the lesser of two evils, if you will.

    The Greens in 2000 are a perfect example of this. Since the candidate that had the best chance of winning, Gore, wasn’t “pure” enough they voted for Nader. The practical result of this was the election of George Bush. So while they got to look into the mirror and tell themselves, “you voted your conscience” they actually moved policy in the direction opposite of their beliefs.

    I think that libertarian issues are less likely to be affected by ideologues than by libertarian leaning Democrats or Republicans who will actually get elected. When I vote it has always been the case of the lesser of two evils, with the exceptions of Harry Browne and Dr Coburn.

  51. Remember when Donderoooo was trying to convince us Palin was a libertarian? Would he have been doing so if she looked like, say, Janet Reno? Chapman is probably right about the sex-appeal, at least in Donderoooo’s case.

  52. Given that a large portion of the left is tied up in unions and blue-collar workers, I have to say I don’t agree with this assessment. and Jimmy Carter didn’t go to Yale and was a farmer (worked with his hands, I don’t know).

    That may have been true? in 1978.

  53. For all her alleged star power, she did nothing to improve the GOP ticket’s fortunes on Election Day

    OMG, you actually believe that, don’t you? If it weren’t for her, McCain would have damn near gone down like Mondale in 1984. The main reason a lot of Republicans came out to vote was Palin, not McCain.

  54. Columnist Jonah Goldberg assured the governor that no matter what, “You are the ‘It Girl’ of the GOP.”

    For the record, I followed up this quote with a “snap-snap-circle.”

  55. The main reason a lot of Republicans came out to vote was Palin, not McCain.

    That’s about the saddest commentary on the fall of the Republican Party that I’ve ever read.

  56. Marshall Gill,

    You may, of course, do what you like, but I’m not playing the lesser of two evils game any longer. It gives some people the impression that I have consented to anything the government wants to do by merely participating.

    A government that does not protect the principle of self-ownership from the tyranny of the majority is one that I consider illegitimate. We are stuck with it, but voting for either of the major parties leads too much presumed authority. Third party all the way; it’s the only voice of protest possible under our rigged system.

  57. She’s real. She’s not a seasoned politician. This is what a lot of “regular” folks want. Seasoned politicians have brought us crap.

    You’d have had a scintilla of credibility there if she hadn’t spewed the neocon, religious fundy meme right down the line.

    She’s a PNAC Barbie Doll. Nothing more.

  58. The babe argument is a pretty shallow argument. I’ve heard the comment a hundred times from men yet I have yet to hear that is why voted or would have voted for her.

    I think the draw of someone who could live next door is stronger than most in political circles are willing to admit. People get tired of having nothing but lawyers, doctors, and affluent politicians telling them how they are going to save the world and then get into a car that costs as much as a house and drive off. I’m not a huge Palin fan, but I would rather kill a beer with her than any Ivy League or silver spoon politician. That sentiment is fairly common among the “gun and bible” conservatives. Even pro union liberals I know have made the same connection. (I was amazed they didn’t stop breathing while trying to form the thought.)

  59. Given that a large portion of the left is tied up in unions and blue-collar workers, I have to say I don’t agree with this assessment. and Jimmy Carter didn’t go to Yale and was a farmer (worked with his hands, I don’t know).

    Carter was a graduate of Annapolis and eventually became an engineer on nuclear (pronounced nuk-U-lar by that former President, also) submarines.

    I’m not playing the lesser of two evils game any longer.

    Nutrasweet, I certainly understand your position. I concede that unless there are outside pressures there is no reason for Washington to change, but when “I” look at the Greens in 2000 I recognize that in our rigged system a little advancement of Liberty is for all that can be hoped. I feel this especially true of primaries. If some of the Ron Paul voters had voted for Romney or Thompson we might have a slightly less piece of shit President now, but there is an argument to be made that since my single vote doesn’t affect the election anyway a protest vote would be better. I remain uncertain which actually produces better results.

  60. “As to the actual thread subject, Fluffy nails it.”

    I agree.

  61. *turns out light, looks into mirror*

    Dondero!

    Dondero!

    …Don…Dond…Don…

    *runs in terror*

  62. “OMG, you actually believe that, don’t you? If it weren’t for her, McCain would have damn near gone down like Mondale in 1984. The main reason a lot of Republicans came out to vote was Palin, not McCain.”

    I switched my vote to Obama because of Sarah Palin. I don’t run in pro-Palin crowds, but most of my conservative friends held their noses and voted for the other guy because of Palin. Admittedly, a large part of it was the question “what happened to the McCain of 2000?” But the single biggest expression of McCain’s shift from 2000 McCain to 2008 McCain was the selection of a culture war guerrilla with a weak resume.

    When you calculate how many people voted because of Palin, you also have to account for how many people immediately ruled out McCain because of her. Do you really think that energizing the base brought in more votes than turning off all of the political center?

  63. OMG OMG EW! I just bit into this two-day-old sammich and it was alright so I kept eating it. Then flies started coming out and I kept eating it. Then I took a closer looks and oh gawd

    SPEW!!!

    coincidentally that sammich makes me feel the same way Palin does.

  64. When you calculate how many people voted because of Palin, you also have to account for how many people immediately ruled out McCain because of her. Do you really think that energizing the base brought in more votes than turning off all of the political center?

    A good point, but would you have voted for McCain (the one in 2000 was exactly the same as the one in 2008, btw), under any circumstances, anyway?

    You have friends that consider themselves “conservative” and voted for the glaringly Leftist Obama as President because of the Republican VP?! Basically saying that they hated Palin so much that they would prefer a socialist? Don’t you mean “centrist friends”? The Republicans could never run someone that would make me vote Democrat. I might not vote that election, but I can’t hold my nose brain that much.

  65. Remember when Donderoooo was trying to convince us Palin was a libertarian? Would he have been doing so if she looked like, say, Janet Reno?

    If Clinton had had an R after his name, DONDEROOOOO would be telling us that Janet Reno was a libertarian, too.

  66. That’s about the saddest commentary on the fall of the Republican Party that I’ve ever read.

    I think that all of the reports on the death of the Republican Party have been greatly exaggerated, and that the Democrats are in for a rude awakening in the near future and don’t even know it.

    The numbers for both Obama and the Democrats have been dropping like a rock in the last couple of weeks or so, as more and more independents and libertarians are becoming horrified at what they’re seeing.

    That’s why a mere eight months after the beatdown they took in Novemeber, the Republican candidate is leading in the polls in both the New Jersey and Virginia gubernatorial races.

  67. I don’t think I could disagree with this article more. On the basic point that looks make it he quite wrong. Really pretty people tend not to because ordinary people don’t empathise with them & this applies moreso for women. As the article points out her support is stronger among men than women but this is not because men take her more seriously (in fact we tend to take lookers less seriously) but because women just don’t like better looking women. Women in the media may perhaps be a particularly bitchy example.

    Nor is it true that she has played to looks – quite the opposite, she has chosen to wear tather overpowering glasses rather than contact lenses, which makes clear the image she is aiming for.

    It cannot honestly be said she “did nothing” to boost the McCain ticket. She was a very visible part of it & the ticket came much closer to winning than expected. One could argue that, if she had a negative effect at all then she cost the election but that is clearly to nonsensical for Chapman to expect anybody to swallow so he sticks with “did nothing”. Actually if any Republican is to blame it is Bush – fair or not without Bush’s record McCain holding them back Mccain would have won easily.

    The real reason he is so heavily on the side of the media who have undeniably been out to crucify her (or is anybody going to suggest that Joe “the Serbs should be put in Nazi style concentration camps” Biden, or even Obama would have held up under 1/100th as much muckdigging as she got) may be in his remark “She showed no gift for articulating conservative themes, beyond ridiculing liberals as overeducated, big-city elitists-a description that applies equally well to most conservative commentators”. So he sees himself not as a Republican but as a member of the cross party Washington political class facing replacement.

  68. I kind of like Palin’s “average Joe” persona. You certainly need not be a genius to be president. On top of that, it is utterly remarkable that a 40ish woman with four kids is a sex symbol!

  69. One more point about Palin: She is clearly smarter, more articulate, more honest, and more everything than Joe Biden, not to mention easier on the eyes.

  70. I don’t understand the idea that the “media elite” don’t like her. Bill O’Reilly and Ann Coulter support her. Bill Kristol practically made her. Aren’t they media elites?

  71. Disagree with commentary about Miers. For some reason, a lot of people think that supreme court nominees SHOULD be really brilliant, in spite of the fact that the Constitution was meant to be a plain English document that people of normal intelligence can understand.

  72. Also, a major part of her role in the campaign last year was to attack Obama, both fairly and unfairly. Why is she now so surprised to be on the receiving end?

  73. Also, a major part of her role in the campaign last year was to attack Obama, both fairly and unfairly.

    Now, I despise Obama, so take your grain of salt, but I really don’t recall her making any unfair attacks.

    Why is she now so surprised to be on the receiving end?

    Because the election was eight months ago, and the attacks have continued?

  74. This woman does stir things up! I have mixed feelings about Palin, but a few things seem clear: She seems closer to libertarian than Obama, Biden, or McCain. If the press had spend 1/10th the energy investigating and attacking Obama and Biden that they spent on Palin, it would be President McCain today. I don’t know how “smart” she is, but then the evidence that Obama is smart is rather thin. Besides, just as Buckley once said he’d rather be governed by the first 200 people in the phone book than the faculty of Harvard, it’s better to have leaders with common sense than brainiacs with a lot of foolish “intellectual” ideas. (E.g.: the first six months of Obama, the living embodiment of Orwell’s observation that some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual would believe them.)

    Her traditional Christian beliefs scare a lot of people, but by historical American standards, she’d probably count as rather liberal. To call her “authoritarian” as Tony did is pretty silly, especially coming from an Obama supporter. I doubt if she would want to control the auto companies, banker’s salaries, the entire healthcare industry, the content of school lunches, the composition of Earth’s atmosphere, etc., etc., the way Obama does.

  75. I think for a lot of us, it’s not about Palin’s qualifications but about the insane high school vendetta against her by the left in general and MSM in particular. It’s like coming across someone beating a child. The child may well have been bad, but it doesn’t deserve _that_.

  76. Republicans, before they nominate Palin, need to ask themselves, “Do I want a celebrity like Palin to run at the top of the ticket or do I want somebody with brains who will be able to straighten out the mess that Obama will have made?”

  77. I’ll take Sarah. You can keep Obama Steve. I guess it’s lucky your not physically attracted to him. I would hate to read that article.

  78. Today, writes Steve Chapman, the same things could be said about Sarah Palin Barack Obama or Joe Biden.

    Senator for 143 days (or somthing like that) = experienced?

  79. Palin’s appeal is that she’s perceived as being hated by the left. If them liberals are agin’ her, the Spite Right is going to be for her!

  80. I just fucking hate politicians. I don’t agree with all her positions, but she’s about the farthest thing from a practiced politician except for maybe Ron Paul.

    If giving her a place at the table means another politician has to go home, I’m all for her!

    How about this? Stop letting lawyers make laws! You wonder why we have so many of them?! It’s because the people who make them are lawyers!

  81. That’s about the saddest commentary on the fall of the Republican Party that I’ve ever read.

    Please stop. The Democrats are now in the role of Coke and the Republicans are Pepsi. Won’t stay that way forever, but I can guarantee that they will terminate any party who wants to get in on their action. Ross Perot was the wakeup call. I will see the 2nd coming before I see a credible 3rd party in this country. Remember, don’t shoot the messenger.

    Bookworm, having somebody with brains who will be able to straighten out this mess is NOT the answer. Our best hopes lie in having split party government and having them bicker and compromise so that at least a good portion of their stupidity doesn’t become law.

    Considering that FDR is considered a great American president by the majority of the citizenry leads me to believe that Obama will probably be re-elected handily.

    As for voting for her because she’s a babe… that’s wrong, but voting for Obama because he is black is not? Guess I need some more white guilt with my kool aid, Steve.

  82. When you calculate how many people voted because of Palin, you also have to account for how many people immediately ruled out McCain because of her.

    If McCain had picked someone with a spine, and a brain, and could get a whole sentence out that made sense, without the aid of a teleprompter, then I may have given him another look. Maybe. He always seemed like a bad candidate but I couldn’t be sure until he confirmed how bad he was by picking Palin.

  83. “…someone with a spine, and a brain, and could get a whole sentence out that made sense, without the aid of a teleprompter…”

    How about replacing Obama with somebody like that?

  84. Nor is it true that she has played to looks – quite the opposite, she has chosen to wear tather overpowering glasses rather than contact lenses, which makes clear the image she is aiming for.

    Yes, because glasses make you ugly.

    Senator for 143 days (or somthing like that) = experienced?

    The minute McCain asked Palin to be his VP, pretty much all of his arguments pointing up Obama’s lack of experience evaporated.

    I will see the 2nd coming before I see a credible 3rd party in this country. Remember, don’t shoot the messenger.

    You seem to labor under the delusion that I believe the LP has a chance. They don’t. Both because the LP is run by a bunch of incompetent knobs, and the two reigning parties have done everything in their power to keep any and all 3rd parties out.

    I’m well aware of this. However, my vote, small and worthless as it is, is still viewed by the parties in power as a worthwhile commodity. If they want my vote they can damned well earn it. The best way I can think to force the parties to look at libertarian ideals is to make them aware of my vote for the libertarians.

    See, you’re just an idiot who wants to be on the winning team. I’m actually interested in notions of individual liberty and freedom.

  85. I really don’t recall her making any unfair attacks.

    That’s probably because you think it was fair to accuse Obama of palling around with terrorists.

  86. “A June poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that her approval rating was 48 percent among men but only 41 percent among women. Females are less susceptible to feminine charms.”

    Poorly reasoned comment. Polls showing the margin of difference between genders when identifying with a specific party show almost the exact same margin of difference.

  87. At least Palin has the face and boobs she was born with, so to speak. The sex appeal advantage also applied to Bill Clinton although I don’t remember anyone talking about it incessantly. That was before the hey day of the Internet. I must be getting old – I’m beginning to find such discussions boring. To quote Cole Porter: “birds do it, bees do it / Even educated fleas do it.”

  88. What’s the libertarian argument against Palin? She doesn’t seem to want to criminalize certain sex acts. She doesn’t hate free markets.
    Not sure if she would have anything to do with it but doesn’t Alaska have some loose drug laws?

  89. Fluffy:

    What you wrote is also true of Obama. Think about that for a minute. If you feel that way about Palin then you should about Obama, and if you don’t aren’t you implying about yorself the same thing you imply about conservatives?

  90. “What’s the libertarian argument against Palin?”

    Her statement that “predatory lenders” ruined the economy and therefore the economy needs “more oversight” doesn’t strike me as particularly libertarian. Declaring a national FBI Day doesn’t either. She wanted to fight for more money for schools. Jesus, just go to one of those “on the issues” sites and see what she’s said and done. Then come back and explain how bridges to nowhere are particularly libertarian.

  91. “birds do it, bees do it / Even educated fleas do it.”

    Even in the wild, the birds with the most attractive plumage win out.

  92. This is a superficial and silly analysis.

    Sarah Palin is attractive, yes, but also the only one of the four P/VP nominees that was saying what true fiscal conservatives wanted to hear – comments about small / responsible government. And she had actually tried to live what she preached (sold the State’s plane on Ebay? Love it!) McCain could say whatever he wanted to, we already knew him as moderately liberal in actual governance. He is best pegged as a conservative Democrat or liberal Republican. (people said she governed as a ‘social conservative’ but this was not really the case – she may have held social conservative values, but her initiatives and plans were more geared fiscal conservatism.)

    Now for Harriet Meirs – she was formerly a democrat (goes to judgment in her initial party affiliation), and demonstrated no special knowledge of and regard for the constitution. And don’t forget, many Bush voters marked the ballot for him in large part because he was expected to nominate ‘strict constitutionalists’. Ms. Miers was an extreme disappointment. It has little to do with her dowdy exterior.

  93. The reason men favor Palin much more than women is that men tend to be logical while women tend to be emotional when making decisions. The current “mandepression” makes men want to fight back, another masculine trait. Sarah is a FIGHTER. She is one of us.

    Yes, I am a conservative, but highly educated with several degrees at respectable universities, including engineering.

    I ain’t no redneck, and Sarah ain’t no pushover.

  94. “Sarah Palin is attractive, yes, but also the only one of the four P/VP nominees that was saying what true fiscal conservatives wanted to hear – comments about small / responsible government.”

    Oh, yeah right, because “fiscal conservatives” are all abuzz about overseeing the economy to stop predatory lending, spending more on education and building bridges to nowhere on the taxpayer’s dime. Big small-government stuff there.

    Sarah Palin is a tool bag because fiscal conservatives have NOT taken to her as the social cons have.

  95. “Sarah is a FIGHTER.”

    So is Mike Tyson.

  96. ….a fighter who winks!

  97. Too bad she didn’t like it and is afraid to come out for decriminalization.

    “Palin said she has smoked marijuana–remember, it was legal under state law, she said, even if illegal under U.S. law–but says she didn’t like it and doesn’t smoke it now. Palin adds, “I can’t claim a Bill Clinton and say that I never inhaled.”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Drugs.htm

  98. Gwyneth Paltrow is a babe, too, but I wouldn’t vote for her.

    Sarah is a conservative, and she walks the walk as well as talks the talk. This scares the indies and the squishies. For that reason she may never get elected to a national political office. I’ll vote for her anyway, every time she tries.

    As this country starts swirling down the drain, it’s my guess that what Sarah stands for will start appealing to more voters, you betcha. Until then, the professorial elitists will have their Era of Hope and Change.

  99. One big difference between Palin and Miers is that there’s probably no better training for president than being a governor. Another is that electability is, in itself, a qualification for elected office.

    I’m a little stupefied to read anti-Palin boilerplate at Reason, seeing as Palin was probably the most culturally-libertarian candidate on a major party ticket since 1984.

  100. Q: Will you support an effort to expand hate-crime laws?

    A: No, as I believe all heinous crime is based on hate.

    http://www.ontheissues.org/sarah_Palin.htm

    sounds like a libertarian argument

  101. Lamar | July 9, 2009, 2:44pm | #

    Hey, Lamar – how many nowhere bridges, bike paths and hockey rinks in nowhereville are there in the (union) stimulus (payoff) bill?

    Can you count in triple digits?

    ACORN needs to tell you “Your Fired” so others can write on this site.

    We already know what you are going to say.

  102. Lamar: Re-read my sentence. Of the four actual candidates for P/VP, which was the more fiscally conservative?

    Also, the biggest joke of the entire 2008 election season what that libertarians were openly voting for Obama. I wondered if any of those libertarians had actually read any libertarian thought? I think most are just social liberals that think calling themselves libertarian sounds cooler and admitting they are just garden variety liberals.

  103. “Q: Will you support an effort to expand hate-crime laws? A: No, as I believe all heinous crime is based on hate.”

    sounds like a libertarian argument”

    And just beneath that quote it says Palin’s position is “no expansion of gambling in Alaska.”

    Not very libertarian.

  104. What you wrote is also true of Obama. Think about that for a minute. If you feel that way about Palin then you should about Obama, and if you don’t aren’t you implying about yorself the same thing you imply about conservatives?

    Who’s we, kemosabe?

    I voted for Barr, and I had extremely limited and concrete hopes for Obama: I hoped he would be better on civil liberties, I hoped he would be better on government transparency, I hoped he would move aggressively to remove troops from Iraq, and I thought he was less likely than McCain to embark on a war with Iran.

    Of those four hopes, Obama has already completely dashed three of them. So fuck him. He’s a liar and a statist bastard.

  105. The last sentance should read, … sounds cooler than admiting they are garden variety liberals.

  106. There are, not one, but two unqualified people in office right now, Obama and Biden, who are in over their heads. So as leftists and libertarians fulminate over the straw man argument that Sarah Palin represents in the national crisis, I would like to see Reason offer some meaningful critique of those who are engineering the greatest deficit in history, fostering the largest bureaucracy in history, engendering the most widespread corruption of public servants in our history, rather than engaging in tiresome ad hominem attacks on Palin. Chapman: citing Todd Purdum’s hit piece? Read something that doesn’t conform with your prejudices.

  107. “I think most are just social liberals that think calling themselves libertarian sounds cooler and admitting they are just garden variety liberals.”

    Well that’s me. I guess I’m a garden variety liberal who supports low taxes, gun rights, small government, self-reliance, individualism, free markets, individual accountability and liberty. You know, the garden variety liberal. The only difference between myself and other liberals, other than everything I stand for being against everything they stand for, is that they also hate Sarah Palin for no reason. After all, she’s a libertarian, and a social conservative, and the girl-next-door, and there’s really no argument anybody can make about her because to the faithful, she is everything to everyone, and if you don’t buy into her platitudes of complete and utter bullshit, you are a garden variety liberal.

    That about it?

  108. Chapman is gay.

  109. Well, Lamar, if you are a libertarian who values low taxes, gun rights, small government, self-reliance, individualism, free markets, individual accountability and liberty, and you voted for Obama – you made a very bad bargin.

  110. “I would like to see Reason offer some meaningful critique of those who are engineering the greatest deficit in history, fostering the largest bureaucracy in history, engendering the most widespread corruption of public servants in our history,

    How to the Palinites not see the irony? Reason puts out an endless stream of stories criticizing all of these things. Then comes along Sr. Palin supporter saying Reason never covers these issues. Constantly reciting bullshit is offensive to a lot of people.

  111. “Well, Lamar, if you are a libertarian who values low taxes, gun rights, small government, self-reliance, individualism, free markets, individual accountability and liberty, and you voted for Obama – you made a very bad bargain.”

    If my vote for Obama drives the bullshit-spewing Sarah Palin out of national politics, it will have been a big win.

  112. I would like to see Reason offer some meaningful critique of those who are engineering the greatest deficit in history, fostering the largest bureaucracy in history, engendering the most widespread corruption of public servants in our history, rather than engaging in tiresome ad hominem attacks on Palin.

    Um, do you actually read the site? Reason complains about current policy in post after post after post here.

    But there still remains the small matter that the greatest deficits before our current deficits were Bush’s, that the largest bureaucracy before our current bureaucracy was Bush’s, that the most outrageous legal policies before the current legal policies were Bush’s, and Palin was happy to slurp the entire Bush record down and wipe her lips and smile, when McCain decided to campaign on the Bush legacy and invited her to come along. And that means that as long as she remains a public figure a libertarian magazine should attack her. Sorry.

  113. mediageek | July 9, 2009, 10:27am | #

    The main reason a lot of Republicans came out to vote was Palin, not McCain.
    That’s about the saddest commentary on the fall of the Republican Party that I’ve ever read.

    Actually, what is sad is that McCain made the tickit in the first place. It was a waste of an election to throw him in the ring.

  114. Well, Lamar, if you are a libertarian who values low taxes, gun rights, small government, self-reliance, individualism, free markets, individual accountability and liberty, and you voted for Obama – you made a very bad bargain.

    Voting for McCain would have produced the same bad bargain. And we would have had the added indignity of falling for the GOP’s lies yet again.

    Hey, Obama definitely lied about a number of critical issues that made me have some misplaced hope for his administration. But at least that was the first time I fell for his particular jive. If I had fallen for McCain and Palin’s outright lies about not supporting big government, that would have been the umpteenth time I allowed myself to be tricked by the GOP. I prefer to boycott all GOP candidates until they denounce the Bush legacy to my satisfaction, to try to keep the number of times I’ve been fooled by them stuck on “umpteen minus one”.

  115. So, Larmar, you’d sell out your stated princpals (low taxes, gun rights, small government, self-reliance, individualism, free markets, individual accountability and liberty) just to see that hick Palin go down?

    Bitter much?

  116. Hmmmmm.

    1. People objected to Harriet Miers because the Supreme Court appointment is for LIFE and the last thing we needed was yet another O’Connor. Supposedly conservative but actually liberal.

    2. Palin’s draw, compared to Miers, has nothing to do with sex appeal. Showing once again that Reason writers do not understand the difference between correlation and causation. Palin’s appeal is that you don’t have to spend 10 minutes trying to decode her words like you do with most other politicians.

    Frankly I generally avoid most Reason writers, except for Kaus, because of overall lack of intellect in the writing.

  117. “..some misplaced hope for his administration.”

    Some misplaced hope?

    I share your despair that the Republicans are only slight better as a group than the Democrats. But Obama is a nightmare. The only hope that a true lover of liberty and small government has now is that after four years of the Obama disaster, the majority of the voting public will see how utterly bankrupt his collectivist ideas are, and we can then move back toward those principals Larmar professes to love.

  118. Well, hell. Megan Fox for president, 2012.

  119. “So, Larmar, you’d sell out your stated princpals (low taxes, gun rights, small government, self-reliance, individualism, free markets, individual accountability and liberty) just to see that hick Palin go down?”

    Fluffy beat me to refuting the “sell out your ideals” garbage. He even beat you to it. How predictable!

    Here’s another thing: I’m sick of the rhetorical argument where you cite to my “stated goals” and lecture me on how to attain them. They’re MY goals, not yours. It is up to me to decide best how to serve them. That’s the whole thing underlying individual responsibility. Surely you understand personal responsibility? Here’s a hint: personal responsibility doesn’t mean that everybody has to do what Jesus says we have to do.

  120. Lamar is a troll pretending to be a libertarian. He’s not here to discuss, only incite. Please stop feeding him.

  121. Unless you’re one of those people who thinks watching monkeys throw their own excrement is entertaining. If so, then by all means have at it.

  122. “Lamar is a troll pretending to be a libertarian. He’s not here to discuss, only incite. Please stop feeding him.”

    I’ve been posting at since 2005 or 2006, I subscribe to the magazine, and I give money to the Reason Foundation. I respect Reason, and so I choose to post here.

  123. Ann Coulter would be just another rabid pit bull if not for the long hair and short skirts.

    On the contrary, she looks ridiculous (raccoon eye shadow, anybody?), but her writing zingers are up there with Mencken and early Tyrrell, when he was good.

  124. Regarding the apparent contrast between Miers and Palin’s acceptability; the appointment of a Justice of the Supreme Court is vastly more important to me than who a Presidential Candidate selects as a running-mate.

    Whether Palin believes I should be deprived of the right to own a rifle with a barrel-shroud is of no interest to me except as entertainment.

    Whether a member of the Supreme Court does or not is of considerably more interest. Same goes for whether I have the right to own a shack on a piece of otherwise-valuable land in New Haven, CT. Or whether I have any right to have my third-trimester fetus’ brain sucked out with a vacuum cleaner.

  125. “On the contrary, she looks ridiculous (raccoon eye shadow, anybody?), but her writing zingers are up there with Mencken and early Tyrrell, when he was good.”

    I thought she was hot back when she wrote for George. But her persistence in the spotlight supports what you’re saying. She can be forceful with the pen despite her getting up there in years.

    “Whether Palin believes I should be deprived of the right to own a rifle with a barrel-shroud is of no interest to me except as entertainment.”

    But if the President tries to deprive you of a shotgun, it won’t be very entertaining.

  126. You are welcome to your ideals, Lamar, just as you are welcome to turn around and violate them if you wish.

    I just don’t understand voting for the worse candidate vis-?-vis your principals because you are tired of the mediocre.

    Life generally offers less than ideal choices, and we must make the best of it.

    Obama made no secret of his principals. He values what he calls ‘justice’, by which he means re-distribution of others’ private property. He does not value individual liberty; he does not value the free market. Which is why I continue to be completely at a loss as to understand how anyone professing a libertarian viewpoint could pull the lever for his man.

    I also don’t understand what Jesus has to do with any of this.

  127. The comparison to Harriet Myers is not apples to apples. The job of the supreme court is a highly demanding intellectual interpretation of the law. The job of the vice president is the most undefined position imaginable. The only ultimate responsibility it to step in if the president dies. I’m a Palin supporter and I’ll admit that she was underprepared for that
    AT THE TIME SHE WAS SELECTED BY MCCAIN. But she was much more prepared by the time the campaign ended.

    This was more than offset by the other attributes that she brought to the ticket. I can think of no other politician who has her political corruption fighting credentials. That is huge in the current era of runaway growth in earmarks and selling of Senate seats. If anyone would actually listen to her, she is not an in-your-face religious conservative. She is an anti-big government conservative who is also a practicing christian. (Her position on abortion is that she is personally against it, but thinks the states should decide the issue.) Her position on gay marriage could not be any more offensive to gays than Obama’s position.

  128. Vapid, very vapid.

    Not Sarah Palin, but this article.

    Yeah, that’s it, Steve. The only reason people respond to Sarah Palin is because she’s a “babe”. Nicely done diminishing both Palin and the people who like and support her in one swell swoop.

    Let me give you a hint, Steve, as to why she might be popular other than she is pretty.

    She is far removed geographically and politically and apparently ethically, from the snake pit which is Washington DC. To many people she seems to be an “average” person who also achieved high office, and yet managed not to forget what it was like to be one of the little guys or gals.

    She, the stupid rube, actually seems to *believe* that public service is about serving the public, and not helping yourself and your cronies to all the goodies you can grab hold of.

    She seems to live her life, even as Governor of a state, more like the average American than most of political hacks who infest government at all levels.

    She also is possible, I suspect, because as Dennis Miller says, all the RIGHT people hate her, meaning the phonies and cretins and political leeches who seem to be determined to run the country in the ground.

    Jeezus, I thought you called this site “Reason” for a reason, but apparently not.

    Pathetic.

  129. Chapman’s main insight was presaged by TV’s Craig Ferguson back in `07.

    My googol-fu isn’t strong enough to recover the link, but didn’t Chapman once do an article about how he preferred dark-haired ladies to the sterotypical blonde bombshell?

    Meanwhile….

    Well, hell. Megan Fox for president Wonder Woman…- Malto Dextrin

    FTFY, Malto.

    Kevin

  130. “I just don’t understand voting for the worse candidate vis-?-vis your principals because you are tired of the mediocre.”

    Like Fluffy said, there wasn’t much difference at the top of the ticket, and Sarah Palin represents, in my view, the worst of conservatism.

    And, you know, you’re right. Jesus doesn’t have anything to do with today’s Republican party. It’s almost like religion doesn’t even exist. Sarah Palin sure doesn’t say anything about Jesus. Mike Huckabee was a preacher, and he never said anything about Jesus. No Jesus in the GOP. Jesus had nothing to do with Mitt Romney’s failures. Romney’s Jesus problem wasn’t even a story.

    And when everybody in the country talks about the GOP base and the religious right, they aren’t talking about Jesus at all.

    And maybe you’re too shortsighted to understand the idea that you have to cull the herd so that it can survive (or maybe I’m latching on to a long-term goal that will fail, who knows).

  131. … I thought you called this site “Reason” for a reason, but apparently not. – Weary_G

    All, drink!

    Kevin

  132. Mike S

    Please, don’t start on your facts-based-opinions around here! Nobody’s interested in actually listening to a credible argument in support of the majority of Palin’s views! We all saw the Gibson and Couric hatchet jobs interviews, so we know all we need to know!

    Palin’s no worse, and in most respects, considerably better than the majority of those snake-oil sellers in Congress, even if you believe the disinformation.

    Y’all sufferin’ from that false consciuosness thing.

  133. Katie Couric = hatchet job?

    If Sarah Palin can’t handle Katie Couric, what was she going to do with Ahmadinejad?

  134. “Palin’s no worse, and in most respects, considerably better than the majority of those snake-oil sellers in Congress, even if you believe the disinformation.”

    I actually agree with this statement. But we’re talking about Alan Freaking Grayson. Who was the Orlando rep before that? Ric Keller? He of the “hottest congressional staff” award? I can only speculate that other districts fare better.

  135. “Q: Will you support an effort to expand hate-crime laws? A: No, as I believe all heinous crime is based on hate.”

    sounds like a libertarian argument”

    And just beneath that quote it says Palin’s position is “no expansion of gambling in Alaska.”

    Not very libertarian.

    grrr >:(

  136. When compared to Obama, Palin is turning out to be a dream libertarian candidate.

    And libertarians have to be devastated with Obama’s foreign policy and attempt to nationalize over a 1/3rd of the private economy.

  137. Mike S, why are you pissing in our cornflakes?

  138. Well, Lamar, it’s not just a matter of handling Katie Couric, it’s also a matter of handling the editing staff and the whole post-production process.

    Did Palin cover herself in glory in those interviews? No. Not by any stretch of the imagination, you fight the campaign with the army you have. So, if Palin was the wrong ‘conservative’ candidate for that slot, who was the right ‘conservative’?

    One who wasn’t so ‘religious’? WTF is it with libertarians? Can’t handle people who might actually have some beliefs which you don’t agree with? Dog forbid that any of them might believe – gasp – or even honor Sky Fairies!

    It’s a terrible condemnation of the libertarian ‘movement’ that dissing people with faith is de rigeur, considering that we spend all our time trying to oppose people who try and force us to submit to THEIR sense of morality.

    If libertarianism means anything, it means letting others believe whatever they like as long as they don’t force it on us.

    And Lamar, in the primaries, what did you understand when Michelle said this?

    “Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”

    Please. Did you think this was Michelle channeling some boob like Biden? Tell us what you could possibly read into this, and as a Reason contributor, pull the handle for this monster?

  139. Secrets of Palin’s staying sower:
    1) Gun and hunting enthusiast.
    2) Belief in small govt (lip service anyway).
    3) Not a damn lawyer.
    4) Small business experience.
    5) Family values.
    6) Ordinary people identify with her.
    7) Drives lefties insane.
    8) Easy on the eyes.
    Things that hurt Palin’s political future:
    A) Resignation and the bad resignation speech.
    B) Speaks carelessly off the cuff. Relies on stock phrases and clauses, spoken rapidly.
    C) Hangs around too much with Scientologists.
    D) Apparently some petty power abuse in office.
    E) Many more years of intense mother duty.
    F) Too easily baited.
    G) Targeted for sabotage by the NYC-WashDC axis.

    P.S., Ann Coulter is NOT NOT NOT good looking to anybody but an Afghan Hound. She is a talented humorist, but NOT NOT NOT hot.

  140. If Sarah Palin can’t handle Katie Couric, what was she going to do with Ahmadinejad?

    He’d be so busy staring at her chest he’d agree to anything she proposed 🙂

    Oh wait, that’s Hillary’s job. Hmm, I guess like Joe Biden, she’d be telling people not to take the subway or they might catch teh H1N1.

  141. I support Palin for President, even though I don’t find her particularly attractive, and even though I’m a pro-choice atheist. On the other hand, I think Carrie Prejean’s drop-dead gorgeous, but I wouldn’t vote for her for any partisan public office.

    Palin’s no libertarian purist, but she’s a hell of a lot closer than anything else the GOP has come up with lately on the national ticket goes.

    Does someone have to graduate from an Ivy-league law school to know what’s best for the country? Most Palin-haters think so; I don’t. Is how someone speaks more important than what they say, and whether they actually mean what they say? Most Palin-haters think so; I don’t.

  142. Because the election was eight months ago, and the attacks have continued?

    So, I guess she has been saying nothing but sweetness and light about Obama and other Democrats since Nov. 4? Come on. She calls a US Senator a terrorist and then she is shocked — shocked — when people say wrong, unfair things about her. Give me a break.

    Something something dish it out, something something take it.

  143. Does someone have to graduate from an Ivy-league law school to know what’s best for the country? Most Palin-haters think so

    Perhaps necessary, but definitely not sufficient. Bush was an Ivy after all.

    I think few people are up to the job of governing. The problem with Palin and her supporters is that they don’t factor competence into the equation at all. Indeed the conservative movement in this country actively disdains higher education–since it’s one of the pillars of the great liberal conspiracy to oppress them, after all. We suffered through 8 years of governing incompetence because enough people felt that who you’d rather have a beer with was more important in a president than who would be most competent and effective. For the record, I’d choose to have a beer with Obama over an airhead like Palin any day of the week.

  144. KT,

    Jeez, Troofer material much? Maybe to some people, Bill Ayers *is* a Freedom Fighter. To many other, he was a terrorist. You gonna deny that Obama knows him? Obama doesn’t.

    You know who else ‘pals around with terrorists’? Most of Congress – or at least, the ones that were around to shake hands and take a photo-op with Gerry Adams.

    The difference is that while good people may disagree whether either of these rum coves *is* a terrorist, obly one of them had his home used as a launchpad for a politico who wanted to become elected as a US Senator.

    Me? i think it doesn’t matter. Anyone stupid enough to tie themselves in with an unabashed member of the late Weather Underground should recuse himself from elections due to stupidity. But it seems that a sizeable chunk of the electorate don’t mind being governed by a coterie of unrepentant mountebanks.

  145. conservatives hate higher educated liberals such as george w bush and his pops

  146. I’ll not quibble that it is an advantage to be attractive, but I’ll argue with everything else in this article.

    Back to front: Senator Phil Gramm did not lose over looks. He lost because he tells the truth. He led the polls in New Hampshire and had the most money when he told a religious convention “I’m not running for National Pastor — I’m running to be President.” I don’t think any Reason authors forget this history — but it didn’t fit his thesis.

    Gov. Mitt Romney was a Republican Governor of one of the five bluest states in the country. He had executive cred from the Salt Lake Olympics and let’s see, was there something else? Oh, yeah — he had a bazillion dollars to float his own campaign and avoid the rules that the Handsome lad that won the nomination had enacted.

    Senator Edwards is not my cup of tea, but he is a credible candidate beyond the expressive locks. He is Southern, which got him the 2004 VP nod, and he had 2004 experience in 2008. He is a skilled if oleaginous orator and represents the populist southern liberal tradition of guys who want to be Atticus Finch.

    Back to his thesis, I would suggest that an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court and a Vice President are different roles (Earl Warren missed his Veep shot and rose to Chief Justice, but this is a different world.)

    My appreciation for Governor Palin is NOT physical. Blog Brother ac posted a photo from her interview in Running Magazine and I thought “oh, she is cute.” If I loved her, it was because she was the only one of the four candidates in the General (Obanma,Biden,McCain,Palin) that discussed or displayed a whiff of belief in limited government. In a good year, I’d expect the folks at Reason to notice this. Or, like David Harsanyi, to notice that she had vetoed a ban on benefits for same-sex partners of State workers because it was proscribed by the Alaska Constitution.

    Chapman is dead wrong on all his examples. Sure it helps to be pretty (again, I did not rise to my blogging prominence based on SAT scores) but it does not work in this application.

  147. “WTF is it with libertarians? Can’t handle people who might actually have some beliefs which you don’t agree with? Dog forbid that any of them might believe – gasp – or even honor Sky Fairies!”

    Ron Paul is a religious fellow, and I seem to recall some minimal amount of support for him in libertarian circles. Of course, Ron Paul didn’t use Jesus as a wedge issue.

  148. Bod,

    The only people linking Ayers and Obama were his opponents and you damn well know it. Ayers is a respected member of Chicago society, and Palin’s piling on in that desperate, dishonest attempt to make Obama out to be some foreigner who will kill us all means she deserves all of the criticism she got.

    What Palin wants is for the media never to be critical of her no matter how stupid she makes herself out to be.

  149. I think few people are up to the job of governing. The problem with Palin and her supporters is that they don’t factor competence into the equation at all.

    This arguiement always makes Obama look worse than Palin. Please stop using it.

  150. You don’t think it’s misrepresenting the truth to say Obama “pals around with terrorists” because he knows Bill Ayers? She made it sound like he likes to have beers on Friday night with guys who just got done sending suicide bombers into a crowded public market, or something.

    I just think that is a really disingenuous and ugly thing to say about your opponent. It had nothing to do with how well he would govern, and everything to do with fearmongering. Terrorists are people who kill people to advance their fundamentalists belief.

    More generally, the atmosphere she was engendering in some of those rallies towards Obama was REALLY ugly.

    Was it dumb of Obama to consort with someone like Ayers? Sure, I’m not defending that. But like I said, I just think it’s silly for her to pretend like she’s so shocked that people are attacking her.

  151. I’m sorry, you utilitarian Libertarian Republicans, who are so ready to promote this beauty queen to the highest office in the land, I cannot go down that road. The last few months have taught me that having even low hopes for the Democratic party is a mistake. I won’t make that mistake again.

    But. McCain was already quite a scary figure (especially in foreign policy) and he confirmed all my worst fears by picking Palin over ANYONE ELSE. She clearly has no idea what she’s talking about.

    My favorite example is the tricky subject of indefinite detentions. At the RNC, she strongly complained about the recent Supreme Court decision: “Al Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America … he’s worried that someone won’t read them their rights?” But when Katie Couric asked her to list a Supreme Court case she disagreed with, she had this to say: “Well, let’s see. There’s – of course in the great history of America there have been rulings that there’s never going to be absolute consensus by every American. And there are those issues, again, like Roe v. Wade, where I believe are best held on a state level and addressed there. So you know, going through the history of America, there would be others but – – .”

    I’m sorry, but if you’re going to give the speech of your life, at least familiarize yourself with what you’re talking about.

  152. Ayers is a great guy! Don’t know why Obama kept his distance from him during the campaign. (rolleyes)

  153. Looks certainly matter, though you never did say why, as promised in your teaser headline. How about the present president? A secretive, evasive, dissembler, never open or honest in two plus years on the campaign trail about whom we still know virtually nothing. Almost no one listened to what he said, or didn’t say. But swoon? Everywhere all the time. Sarah Palin may not be as slick, or just may be, but she’s more ‘transparent’ and more is known about her and her opinions now than will be known about Obama when he leaves office. Except, of course, that he suckered a lot of people – the looks elite – about about a lot of things that will cost us all dearly for the rest of our lives.

    Forget about Sarah Palin for a while. Shut up and listen to Obama for a change . . . while there’s still time.

  154. “You don’t think it’s misrepresenting the truth to say Obama “pals around with terrorists” because he knows Bill Ayers”

    KT, listen if you are too stupid to know when Obama is lying to you, then YOU need to stop voting. You obvious don’t have the intellect required.

    Obama LIED repeatedly about Ayers and Wright and for YOU not to know it by now tell us that you are a fool.

    Obama met Michelle will working a summer internship at a small law firm with William Ayers’ wife, Doern. That was 20 years ago in a complete other city. While in college William Ayers and Barack Obama lived within two buildings of each other and Barry himself likes to brag about how he sought out every marxists and “revolutionary” during college. But I am sure in your fantasy land he didn’t look up the self confessed Weather Underground terrorist, William Ayers.

    Fast forward 20 years and ole terrorist Ayers and Obama end up with the same addresses for their foundations and living next door to each other in Hyde Park?

    And to top it off, in 60 days, if Obama has proven one thing it is that in every instance when in doubt it has to be America fault. His entire foreign policy is to blame every ill and conflict in the world on America. Now where could Barry Obama have gotten that idea? His foreign speeches like chapters from one of Ayers, I-hate-America manifestos.

    So you elected the first American-hating President, good job, fools

  155. What’s really hilarious are the Palin defenders baring their fangs at anything that comes off as mildly critical of their idol, as evidenced on this website. For a libertarian website, Reason’s comments section tends to attract lots of semi-fascists.

  156. LogicalUS should probably be sterilized for stupidity. If he has any kids, the gene pool will be permanently contaminated.

  157. Lamar, I hardly watch campaign speeches so I wouldn’t know, but did you actually see Palin use “Jesus as a wedge issue”? I hear all kinds of things that she believes but have never seen her actually say them, only her enemies claiming that she did. There is a big difference between professing faith, (didn’t the Big O profess his?) and legislating from the Bible, or whatever. Mike Huckabee and his supporters did regularly mention Jesus and this criticism of him is appropriate but “I” didn’t see Palin use it, although I have heard her critics repeat it considerably. What does “using Jesus as a wedge issue” mean? Obama talked about “his religion” and so did Hillary and Ron Paul

    Also, I have not seen where you have stated in this thread that you voted for Obama because you thought he was more libertarian, only what a piece of shit you think Palin is. I am wondering if you didn’t vote for him as a simple protest of the other guy? Since you have not specifically stated this it could leave the impression that you are arguing that the significance of the Republican VP was more important than the Democrats President. Almost like you are arguing that you voted for Obama because you thought he was a better defender of Liberty than the second of the man he was running against. I don’t think that, but if you re-read your posts you might see where others might.

    Surely if “selecting an idiot VP” would disqualify your vote you couldn’t have missed Biden.

  158. This whole article is stupid. All it says is that the author can’t figure out why Palin is so popular/unpopular. Take the easy way out and say it’s because “she’s a babe.”

  159. There is something seriously wrong with your news consumption habits if you think she is competent enough to do any job with real power over other people.

    How’s your Biden?

  160. Palin is unelectable for POTUS. Both she and Obama represent something – she’s the strong conservative woman and he’s the black guy. Neither was anywhere remotely qualified for the position that they stood to gain from the ’08 election. However, each is really good at riling up audiences. Obama has his “yes we can” bullshit and Palin has the idiotic winks and “you betcha” comments. Ron Paul was a much better choice than those dolts (I would include McCain in that).

    I am curious how many of my fellow “libertarians” thought Palin was/is really a limited gov’t advocate. What does she think of the PATRIOT Act? Warantless wiretaps? No-knock warrants? The bridge to nowhere? Charging rape victims (without insurance) for rape kits?

  161. @ LogicalUS | July 9, 2009, 5:42pm | #

    Rush, is that you?

  162. That’s probably because you think it was fair to accuse Obama of palling around with terrorists.

    That’s probably because you think William Ayers isn’t a terrorist, and/or isn’t pals with Obama. Speaking of deficiencies in news consumption…

  163. Well, now. Let’s look at what Mrs. Palin has done that might attract admiration, shall we?

    * Took on a famously corrupt political machine, and beat them at their own game.
    * Balanced family and a high-powered job.
    * Governed pragmatically, not ideologically.
    * Handled the most vicious public attacks that I’ve seen in 40 years of watching politics, with remarkable grace.
    * Didn’t let herself get pulled into the Washington-Intellectual/Chattering-Class bubble world, but remained refreshingly normal.

    Any of that appear in your article? Nope.

    So what did?

    Wayne: Cassandra. She’s a fox. In French she would be called “la renarde” and she would be hunted with only her cunning to protect her.

    Garth: She’s a babe.

    Wayne: She’s a robo-babe. In Latin she would be called “babia majora”.

    Garth: If she were a president she would be Baberaham Lincoln.

    Schwiiinnnnggg!!

    Every now and then I consider subscribing to Reason. Then I read something mind-numbing like this. Grow up.

  164. “All those things, of course, could also have been said about Sarah Palin. But just as quickly and vigorously as conservatives rejected Miers, they embraced Palin.”

    You’re reaching here. Governing merely requires common sense, which Palin has. Being a Supreme Court Justice requires years or decades of bathing in jurisprudence, prior case law, precedent, etc. Not the same thing.

  165. How I would dearly love to watch Palin win the Presidency … liberals are utterly terrified of her. She’s something they can’t understand: a normal human being.

    You can tell just by the way the go apeshit any time someone mentions her name.

  166. @Mike in PA | July 9, 2009, 8:29am

    “Now, for my taste, her religious views get too involved in her politics,”

    Please name an example of one religiously motivated policy she has attempted to make law.

    Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp

  167. Palin: 7
    Retards: 9

  168. Stanley Fish and Roger Simon are still better. And then there is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycPSsERhbo&eurl=http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/07/atlas-vlogs-sarah-palin-oorah.html&feature=player_embedded.

    Of course, what if Liz Cheney steps up to the plate? She has been wiping the floor with Demwits anytime one had the balls to appear on the same chat show with her.

  169. For all those talking about how “real” Palin is, the fact that 500 people picked from the phonebook might do better than congress, which I’m not so sure of anyway, doesn’t mean that the 500 people who can crawl to the top of the media bandwagon would be better than the people in congress. Palin is just as big a meglomaniac as the washington types; she took the nomination for veep without a second thought, without meeting with McCain more than once, without having given much thought to national issues (there’s a reason that drilling in Alaska suddenly became a bigger issue than, say, the war, or the national debt, or the economy…) without any of the knowledge that comes from spending years trying to work through the political ranks. Saying that Palin is ordinary people is like saying that the folks who go on reality tv are ordinary people; just like us but with way more need for self promotion and generally better bodies.

    And I agree, we do need more people who aren’t from Washington, but what we need is more people like Ross Perot, who have accomplished great things outside the realm of politics, not political novices who are just as much politicians as are experienced politicians, but without the experience.

  170. I usually don’t read Chapman’s articles because their titles and blurbs are uninteresting. Is he always this far off base? And why doesn’t he actually research an item before commenting?

    This quote “her strange decision to resign as governor of Alaska” is really amazing. The business of governing Alaska has nearly come to a halt as she and her staff are spending a majority of their time (and 2 million taxpayer dollars so far this year!) on FOIA requests and lawyers defending the governor from strictly partisan “ethics” complaints. I sense some irony here in partisans filing unfounded ethics complaints… Doesn’t that sound unethical?

    Palin has spent $500,000 personally on lawyers. How is she supposed to afford that on her salary? Is her husband going to pay those bills with his racing winnings?

    Personally I think she should resign, and then sue the “ethics” complainants in civil court to recover her personal legal fees plus damages!

  171. I have to say I’m really surprised at this article, namely because it’s truly an idiotic expression of things that are patently untrue.

    Palin radically improved the GOP fortunes in the elections. There were many, many “conservatives” who were not about to vote for John McCain until he brought Sarah Palin on board.

    Her speech was absolutely anything but incoherent and rambling. She has a personal, down to earth style. She doesn’t make her speeches to the teleprompters that are telling her what to say, all the while keeping her nose steadily raised several degrees above normal. Get over it. She gives her speeches TO PEOPLE. And she, unlike our president, is unafraid to look people in the eye when she is addressing them. He seems perfectly incapable of doing that.

    Her “strange” move is what many of us wish a host of politicians would do once they know they have become ineffective (whether by their own fault or by the fault of others), that is to do something more productive and not waste tax payer dollars. She has probably garnered a huge amount of respect from people who care more about fiscal responsibility than they do about whether or not someone filled out a term. Sadly there are a great many politicians who would not only not resign a fruitless position, they will in fact continue running and (surprisingly) winning even when they are completely ineffective at what they do and waste millions of hard earned tax-payer dollars. She made a risky career move but she did the right thing for her state because they don’t need to be footing the bills for a bunch of idiotic bogus ethics charges.

    I’m not a major feminist or anything but your assessment is one of the most sexist things I’ve heard in a long time. She has staying power because she doesn’t mind poking democrats, republicans and stupid people of any political stripe in the eye (may her proverbial index finger grow ever longer.) The fact, Mr. Not-so-astute-observer, is that the left just really hates it whenever someone who isn’t fat, bald, crotchety, etc. has conservative views and knows how to express them well and in a manner that shows that they are OF THE PEOPLE, which, ya know… was sort of the whole point of that little skirmish known as the American Revolution.

    Her staying power has nothing to do with her good looks (and why should she try to hide them?) I mean, look at Robert Byrd, Joe Biden, Barney Frank and Hillary Clinton. They’re not exactly what we would call… umm… “lookers” but somehow they have managed to stay in the ring way past their prime! Her staying power, however, is completely different from any of theirs. It’s mostly due to the fact that she couldn’t give a damn what any of them think of her.

    She seems like the most perfect candidate to champion the cause of mandatory term limits for all elected officials. She knows how important it is for actual work to be getting done and that the work of the people takes precedent over the job security of elected officials.

  172. Sarah Palin definately did not help the Republicans. Several of my friends specifically voted for Obama instead of a Ron Paul write-in to defeat Palin, who could not stand her rambling idiocy.

    Palin turned a lot of independents away from the Republican Party. I can’t believe people still support her.

  173. Look! It is possible to write a piece critical of Palin without being an idiot, telling rape and incest jokes, or fantasizing that you have superior skills as a political entrepreneur while on your lunch break in your cubicle:

    http://thehill.com/a.b.-stoddard/president-palin-prep-2009-07-08.html

  174. Moronic article is nothing more than Palin hatred as half-assed commentary.

  175. Another shallow article.

    It is definitely true that Gov Palin has a higher approval ratings from Males.

    If one were look into the numbers the gap between male and female falls among somewhat among independents and mostly all of it among liberals.

    Liberal women hate Gov Palin because she represents everything these women hate, a happy successful, pro-life women.

    Of course the author doesn’t mention that Obama has 90% favorable rating among blacks and a net negative rating among whites.

  176. My only point is that if you take the Bible straight, as I’m sure many of Reasons readers do, you will see a lot of the Old Testament stuff as absolutely insane. Even some cursory knowledge of Hebrew and doing some mathematics and logic will tell you that you really won’t get the full deal by just doing regular skill english reading for those books. In other words, there’s more to the books of the Bible than most will ever grasp. I’m not concerned that Mr. Crumb will go to hell or anything crazy like that! It’s just that he, like many types of religionists, seems to take it literally, take it straight…the Bible’s books were not written by straight laced divinity students in 3 piece suits who white wash religious beliefs as if God made them with clothes on…the Bible’s books were written by people with very different mindsets…in order to really get the Books of the Bible, you have to cultivate such a mindset, it’s literally a labyrinth, that’s no joke

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