Reason Morning Links

- Seven killed in Iran, as hundreds thousands more join protests. Plus, the Washington Post looks at the evidence of election fraud.

- New York Times: Obama's health plan will cost $1 trillion, and still leave tens of millions uninsured.

- Khalid Shaikh Mohammed says he made things up'"including bin Laden's whereabouts, and falsely implicating others as being members of Al-Qaeda'"to get captors to stop torturing him. Meanwhile, the CIA tortured Abu Zubaida for three months before realizing he wasn't the person they thought he was.

- The English-firsters are back.

- None dare call it an earmark. But it's an earmark.

Comments

[John Davis]

Oh yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head this time around! Well done!

RT
http://www.privacy-tools.4-all.org

[Art-P.O.G.]

Stories like that reinforce my opposition to torture, but I'm still not sure whther to believe K. Sheikh Mohammed or not; but then...that's the problem with torture.

Although it might be all right to torture the anonymity-bots.

[MR]

OT: I keep getting this ad: Become a Leader of Tomorrow... Specialize in Terrorism.

??!!

[P Brooks]

Terror is the Future; don't be left behind!

[SugarFree]

Become a Leader of Tomorrow... Specialize in Terrorism

Isn't that The University of Phoenix Online's motto?

[FrBunny]

Abu Zubaida, 38, was subjected 83 times to waterboarding [before US officials realized he was] not a formal member of al-Qaeda, much less one of its leaders.

I'm absolutely stunned that this is my country (though I shouldn't be by now). I'd like to contract J sub D to furiously rant for me please.

[Art-P.O.G.]

MR, P Brooks,

don't click on that link. :p

[Jack Thread]

ABC TURNS PROGRAMMING OVER TO OBAMA; NEWS TO BE ANCHORED FROM INSIDE WHITE HOUSE
Tue Jun 16 2009 08:45:10 ET

On the night of June 24, the media and government become one, when ABC turns its programming over to President Obama and White House officials to push government run health care -- a move that has ignited an ethical firestorm!

Highlights on the agenda:

ABCNEWS anchor Charlie Gibson will deliver WORLD NEWS from the Blue Room of the White House.

The network plans a primetime special -- 'Prescription for America' -- originating from the East Room, exclude opposing voices on the debate.

MORE

Late Monday night, Republican National Committee Chief of Staff Ken McKay fired off a complaint to the head of ABCNEWS:

Dear Mr. Westin:

As the national debate on health care reform intensifies, I am deeply concerned and disappointed with ABC's astonishing decision to exclude opposing voices on this critical issue on June 24, 2009. Next Wednesday, ABC News will air a primetime health care reform "town hall" at the White House with President Barack Obama. In addition, according to an ABC News report, GOOD MORNING AMERICA, WORLD NEWS, NIGHTLINE and ABC's web news "will all feature special programming on the president's health care agenda." This does not include the promotion, over the next 9 days, the president's health care agenda will receive on ABC News programming.

Today, the Republican National Committee requested an opportunity to add our Party's views to those of the President's to ensure that all sides of the health care reform debate are presented. Our request was rejected. I believe that the President should have the ability to speak directly to the America people. However, I find it outrageous that ABC would prohibit our Party's opposing thoughts and ideas from this national debate, which affects millions of ABC viewers.

In the absence of opposition, I am concerned this event will become a glorified infomercial to promote the Democrat agenda. If that is the case, this primetime infomercial should be paid for out of the DNC coffers. President Obama does not hold a monopoly on health care reform ideas or on free airtime. The President has stated time and time again that he wants a bipartisan debate. Therefore, the Republican Party should be included in this primetime event, or the DNC should pay for your airtime.

Respectfully,
Ken McKay
Republican National Committee
Chief of Staff

[brotherben]

Dear Mister McKay,

You guys had your chance and muffed it. Shut the fuck up.

[Jack Thread]

"You guys had your chance and muffed it. Shut the fuck up."

ABCNEWS anchor Charlie Gibson will deliver WORLD NEWS from the Blue Room of the White House. You don't find that odd???

[Fluffy]

For eight years the Washington Post and New York Times reprinted Dick Cheney's press releases and called it news.

I think it's only natural that the Obama administration would find its own lackeys in the press, too.

[Tom Walls]

Wow, Iran is becoming just like Kent State, except they're right!

[Art-P.O.G.]

brotherben,

Although you'll seldom be wrong ascribing the basest motivations to a political actor (ex. quote: " find it outrageous that ABC would prohibit our Party's opposing thoughts and ideas from this national debate, which affects millions of ABC viewers." (I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem doing this to 3rd-parties, McKay); however his probable rank hypocrisy does not make his concerns illegitimate.

[Gimlet]

Fluffy,

There's a differnce between press releases and a news anchor broadcasting the nightly news from the blue room of the white house.

I think it blurs the line between government and the fourth estate.

[Tricky Prickears]

Plus, the Washington Post looks at the evidence of election fraud.

The Iranian clerics requested that the US send Katherine Harris to aid in the vote recount.

[zero]

I really don't have a problem with english becoming the official language of the United States. In the words of fark: what could possibly go wrong?

[Gimlet]

Tricky Prickears

You're like a day late. Maybe even two or three.

[Tricky Prickears]

Wow, Iran is becoming just like Kent State, except they're right!

The ROTC building at the University of Tehran has just been burned to the ground. It's been suggested that this incident was perpetrated by outside antagonists, trained by Dick Cheney.

[Gimlet]

Tricky Prickears

You need to fire your writers.

[Tricky Prickears]

They're on strike. I've been using Letterman's.

[phalkor]

ABCNEWS anchor Charlie Gibson will deliver WORLD NEWS from the Blue Room of the White House. You don't find that odd???

'bout time too. Finally a dose of honesty in our news. They no longer need to hide their motives. Glory to the state!

[Nooge]

I wonder how much longer Mahmoud is going to care to claim a decisive victory, because such a claim is looking more ludicrous every day. If so many people voted for him, who did these "hundreds of thousands" of people vote for?

ABCNEWS anchor Charlie Gibson will deliver WORLD NEWS from the Blue Room of the White House. You don't find that odd???

I hear this newfangled "Internet" thing is taking off. Perhaps, instead of whining that mean ol' ABC won't also fellate them, Republicans could develop a coherent alternative and present it directly to the people. But I'm almost sure they won't do that.

I think it blurs the line between government and the fourth estate.

And what a line it is.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I apologize for the punctuation and formatting of my last post.

[Xeones]

Yo, fuck.

[brotherben]

When Bush was president, I don't recall the dems being invited to stand next to him during SOTU addresses and such to give their ideas concerning wars or the medicaid drug benefit. It seems to be a buncha whining about nothing.

Presidents have had network access for decades to give info to the unwashed masses.

[Drip, Drip, Drip]

"Khalid Shaikh Mohammed says he made things up"

Can't they just kill this fucker and be done with it?

[Drip, Drip, Drip]

"Presidents have had network access for decades to give info to the unwashed masses."

That's not what this is. This is the state using the media with impunity. I could give two fucks from Thursday if the Rebulickin's are there or not. This is the nightly news with Charlie Gibson broadcasting from the Whitehouse. I double-dare anyone to cite a precedent.

[Tulpa]

When Bush was president, I don't recall the dems being invited to stand next to him during SOTU addresses and such to give their ideas concerning wars or the medicaid drug benefit.

I do recall the Dems getting a rebuttal broadcast immediately afterward by every station that broadcast the SOTU. That won't be allowed in this case.

You won't convince anyone with half a brain that this is no big deal.

[Drip, Drip, Drip]

"You won't convince anyone with half a brain that this is no big deal."

Agreed.

[R C Dean]

Abu Zubaida, 38, was subjected 83 times to waterboarding [before US officials realized he was] not a formal member of al-Qaeda, much less one of its leaders.

Keep in mind that when they say "83 times", they are counting each time water was dripped on the towel separately. So its a little misleading; that's not 83 separate sessions (the impression the writer no doubt intended to leave), probably more like 7 or 8.

Not defending it, just trying to add a little context.

[Tulpa]

So if I pull out all your teeth with vice grips during one torture session, it only counts as one act of torture instead of 32?

Not defending it, just trying to add a little context.

Yeah, just like brotherben was.

[Xeones]

This is interesting: Portsmouth, VA just made two streets private in order to cut down on crime in the housing projects that they run through.

The "private" organization that owns them now is the Portsmouth Redevelopment & Housing Authority, but still.

[EJM]

? Seven killed in Iran, as hundreds thousands more join protests.

And now, "Iran bans foreign press from covering protest rallies".

[Fluffy]

This is the nightly news with Charlie Gibson broadcasting from the Whitehouse. I double-dare anyone to cite a precedent.

Actually, I would much rather have Charlie Gibson openly broadcasting from the White House, where everyone can see it and can decide for themselves if they think it's appropriate or not, than have Judy Miller surreptitiously amplifying whatever lies the state wants told about fantasy WMD, or have the Pentagon illegally underwriting on-screen "retired military analysts" with no disclosure to the audience at all.

[Fluffy]

Keep in mind that when they say "83 times", they are counting each time water was dripped on the towel separately. So its a little misleading; that's not 83 separate sessions (the impression the writer no doubt intended to leave), probably more like 7 or 8.

Please provide evidence of this in the form of sworn testimony before a court or Congress or an official document with named and verifiable sources.

This bit of spin is supported by absolutely no evidence. It was inserted into the ether a few days after the release of the memos documenting the number of waterboarding incidents for the detainees in question as damage control and spin, with no backup whatsoever that I've ever been able to find. If there's evidence, I'd love to see it, so educate me on this please. Otherwise you're just repeating disinformation.

[Two Foot Stools]

"Actually, I would much rather have Charlie Gibson openly broadcasting from the White House, where everyone can see it and can decide for themselves if they think it's appropriate or not, than have Judy Miller surreptitiously amplifying whatever lies the state wants told about fantasy WMD, or have the Pentagon illegally underwriting on-screen "retired military analysts" with no disclosure to the audience at all."

I'm going to go with "none of the above". Three wrongs don't make a right.

[Dan]

Back when I was on the receiving end of racial discrimination, it was to me not simply a personal misfortune, or even the misfortune of a race, it was a moral outrage. But not everyone who went through such an experience sees it that way.

When it comes to subjecting other people to the same treatment in a later era, some have no real problem with that. They see it as payback.

One of the many problems of the payback approach is that many of the people who most deserve retribution are no longer alive. You can take symbolic revenge on people who look like them, but this removes the whole moral element. If it is all right to discriminate today against individuals who have done you no harm, then why was it wrong to discriminate against you in the past?

More from Thomas Sowell Here:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YmExZDJmNzQ2MDE1YTliOWNjYjk4MTRmOWY1OWU3YjY=

[SugarFree]

RE: Iran protest coverage

As always, a Jezebel commenter cuts to heart of the matter...

It's bugging me that if these were butt-ugly women the responses might be less enthusiastic.

[Xeones]

It's bugging me that if these were butt-ugly women the responses might be less enthusiastic.

Someone didn't get asked out much in high school, methinks.

[brotherben]

Butt-ugly is a term that really depends on the butt. If you're comparing a woman to my butt, it works. To that of Salma Hayak, not so much.

[Warty]

Anything good about Iran on Feministing, SF? I don't have the balls to look.

[ed]

I think it blurs the line between government and the fourth estate

There is no fourth estate.
It merged long ago with the entertainment industry to become the fifth estate.
"We're not the government. Trust us!"?

[The Angry Optimist]

warty - nothing good over there on Iran. but if you do get the chance, check out this piece of Soviet-style apologia for David Letterman vis-a-vis Sarah Palin. It's OK to imply her daughter's a slut, y'see, 'cause she's TEH EVIL CONSERVATIVE.

[Solana]

This Tehran stuff is insane. I've been following it on Twitter since the election. Really unbelievable stuff happening.

Follow @Madyar for some incredible updates and photos.

[SugarFree]

Warty,

Not anything funny. Just the old New York Times tactic of "Iran Election Fraud, Women Hit Hardest."

Although someone threw in this link to a picture thread. The comments coming from Iranians are just brutally sad.

im from iran.thanx for your newscast.please effluvium this news to all of the world, we can not do this! they are log-out our communications!we can not use mobile,sms,E-mail&internet!they're filtering our websites!they're kill our youth!but we are ready for big change in our country!we need Mr musavi for this change,we want our vote!
we need your help!we need a big help from all of the world! plz help us!! 🙁

[R C Dean]

Otherwise you're just repeating disinformation.

Its simple credibility. The initial release had the high numbers in it, which worked out, as I recall, to many separate waterboarding "sessions" per day, with no explanation as what was counted as a session. The explanation that they were counting each "pour" struck me as being common sense.

If you have the kind of sworn testimony that each "session" includes mutiple pours, then I would be happy to accept it. In the absence of sworn testimony either way, I'll go with common sense.

[Seward]

My response to the ABC thing:

People still watch the evening news?

[Two Foot Stools]

"Although someone threw in this link to a picture thread"

Incredible!

[R C Dean]

Perhaps Abu Zubaydah's own statement to the Red Cross would be acceptable?

The Times and dozens of other outlets wrote that the CIA also waterboarded senior Al Qaeda member Abu Zubaydah 83 times, but Zubayda himself, a close associate of Usama bin Laden, told the Red Cross he was waterboarded no more than 10 times.

[John Thacker]

None dare call it an earmark. But it's an earmark.

Err, Coburn calls it an earmark. The whole point of the linked article is that some dare call it an earmark, but the Administration and the Majority don't.

[Alberta Libertarian]

The Republicans are no different than the Islamic fundamentalists in Iran...... according to Andrew Sullivan.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/the-rovian-islamist.html

//Ahmadinejad's bag of tricks is eerily like that of Karl Rove - the constant use of fear, the exploitation of religion, the demonization of liberals, the deployment of Potemkin symbolism like Sarah Palin://

//Think of this regime as Cheney and Rove in a police state setting, and you see what's been going on. (Of course, Rove and Cheney live within a democratic system utterly unlike Iran, and there's no evidence they would violate democratic norms as Khamenei just did. But their demagoguery, abuse of the state, dedication to conflict abroad, co-optation of the armed forces, and manipulation of rural and religious voters all have parallels in Red State Iran.) We keep expecting to see some kind of shame or some attempt at rational dialogue. They have nothing but contempt for that kind of talk. If they're going to lie, it's gonna be a Big Lie. Like this sham of an election.//

Moron.

[Solana]

Ughhh. Alberta, a friend of mine compared Bush to Ahmadinejad this morning. My reaction was similar to yours.

Bush was bad. Really bad. But Ahmadinejad is more or less a dictator (if the win was indeed fraudulent) in a theocratic hell hole.

[Alberta Libertarian]

I have my problems with Bush but any person who compares him to a dictator is a moron, especially when they presume he's no better than a theocrat for playing to the "Christianists" [Andrew Sullivan's idiotic term] in the red states.

While I support this idiots right to free speech, I really wouldn't mind if he moved up to Baffin Island and shutup for the rest of his life.

[Fluffy]

Actually, the Red Cross report is definitive and authoritative. Thanks.

[Fluffy]

Sullivan's statement is a qualified one. He says, "The Iranian regime is like Bush and Cheney in ways A, B and C, and not like them in ways D and E".

What's wrong with that?

[dhex]

It's bugging me that if these were butt-ugly women the responses might be less enthusiastic.

though it is beside the point, it's certainly not untrue. (at least as far as internet commenting goes)

it helps to have young, attractive people or helpless participants (children, the elderly, the infirm) involved when the state decides to let some blood.

[Two Foot Stools]

Did Iraqi Democracy Influence Iran?

[Alberta Libertarian]

//Sullivan's statement is a qualified one. He says, "The Iranian regime is like Bush and Cheney in ways A, B and C, and not like them in ways D and E".

What's wrong with that?//

Any person who tries to make that kind of connection is an idiot. I might as well compare Obama to Lenin because Lenin also went after the rich. If I were to make that point I'm sure Sullivan would be the first to denounce me as a racist or possibly a "Christianist." If you can't see the difference between Islamic fundamentalists in Iran and George W Bush then you have issues.

Lets keep in mind this is the guy who was concerned with whether or not Sarah Palin actually had Trig in her uterus.

[Pro Libertate]

Yes, I think that's a little disingenuous. "Obama's like Hitler in the following five ways. . . ."

See what I mean?

[brotherben]

Alberta Lib, you can certainly make that comparison, if that's what you think is correct. The difference between Bush and Islamic fundamentalists is simply what they have chosen to be the truth.

[BunkerBill]

The Washington Post thought that Pol Pot was a great guy and probably thinks that the Socialist Workers Party won the last US election, not a reliable or honest source.

[Fluffy]

I might as well compare Obama to Lenin because Lenin also went after the rich.

It would actually be entirely appropriate to compare various elements of Obama's rhetoric to that of Lenin.

Particularly when he blames the failure of misguided state economic policies on "speculators". Or when he tries to extort compliance with, say, the Chrysler deal from bondholders. He doesn't go the full Lenin [yet] but it's a pretty damn good approximation.

[Two Foot Stools]

"Alberta Lib, you can certainly make that comparison, if that's what you think is correct. The difference between Bush and Islamic fundamentalists is simply what they have chosen to be the truth."

Exactly! Why, I'll never forget the time Bush threw acid in that woman's face for not wearing the hajab. I fucking laughed my ass off!

And then there was the time he rounded up and hung all those queers en mass. I came in my pants a little when that happened.

[Episiarch]

It's bugging me that if these were butt-ugly women the responses might be less enthusiastic.

Most of the photographers on the scene are male. They will spot attractive women protesting, and realize that pictures of attractive women protesting make for good (and sellable) copy, so they will prioritize photographing them over ugly women or dudes. Very simple and basic human stuff, composed of human sexuality and desire for profit.

[The Full Lenin]

"And then there was the time he rounded up and hung all those queers en mass. I came in my pants a little when that happened."

Got any pictures?

[J sub D]

I'd like to contract J sub D to furiously rant for me please.

These fucking morons don't seem to realize that if you torture somebody they might just say someting like "Him, him, her and her also consorted with the devil. They're witches too". Any person with multiple functioning neurons could look at the fucking "success" mere police interrogators have in getting someone under their control to implicate not only others, but themselves in crimes that later turn out to have been im-fucking-possile for the confessed to commit.

But NOOOOO! We have people justifying these criminal barbaric acts with transparent lies that assert we have gained actionable reliable intelligence using these methods best left to the USSR and Robert Mugabe.

It wasn't torture. We'd show you but we destroyed all of the video. You'll just have to trust us on this one. No, we can't release the transcripts of the interrogations either due to national security reasons.

Antyone who thinks that the techniques fancifully described as "enhanced interrogation" delivers anything other than unreliable confirmation of what the interrogator wants to hear is too goddam stupid to be allowed to wander through life unattended by a thinking adult.

Torture - not just evil but goddam useless as well.

[Fluffy]

The Washington Post thought that Pol Pot was a great guy and probably thinks that the Socialist Workers Party won the last US election, not a reliable or honest source.

The Washington Post in its foreign policy coverage and editorials is EXTREMELY pro-Israel and pro-War-on-Terror.

Like the New York Times, whatever its liberal bent may be on domestic or economic issues, the Post is a reliable house organ for neoconservative foreign policy initiatives.

The only people who aren't aware of this are douchebags still hung up on Woodward and Bernstein. So I have to assume that this is what you are.

[freeforall232]

Mr. McKay never seemed to have a problem that third parties are constantly ignored and left out of national debates, so before the next election, I believe we should bombard Mr. McKay's (and all other Republicans) inbox with the following:

"Dear Mr. McKay:

As the national debate on government authority intensifies, I am deeply concerned and disappointed with the decision to exclude opposing voices on this critical issue.

Today, Libertarians are requesting an opportunity to add our Party's views to ensure all sides of the debate are presented. I believe we should have all sides speak directly to the American people. However, I find it outrageous that the media prohibits our Party's opposing thoughts and ideas from this national debate, which affects millions of Americans.

In absence of opposition, I am concerned the event will become a glorified infomercial to promote Democrat & Republican agendas. If that is the case, this should be paid for out of the DNC & RNC coffers. Democrats and Republicans do not hold a monopoly on governmental reform and policies. Therefore, the Libertarian Party should be included in this event.

Respectfully,
Concerned American"

[The Full Lenin]

"Like the New York Times, whatever its liberal bent may be on domestic or economic issues, the Post is a reliable house organ for neoconservative foreign policy initiatives."

Apparently you didn't read David Ignatius this morning...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/15/AR2009061502584.html

[Fluffy]

Yes, I think that's a little disingenuous. "Obama's like Hitler in the following five ways. . . ."

See what I mean?

The question of whether or not the comparison will be meaningful or intelligible depends on what the five things are.

If the five ways George Bush is like Adolf Hitler are:

1. Both have an O in their first name
2. Both liked German shepherds
3. Both had fathers who held government jobs
4. Both liked to dress up in pretend uniforms during public appearances
5. Both were youthful ne'er do wells who found their calling later in life

- -then the comparison is a bit disingenuous. If the five ways George Bush is like Adolf Hitler are:

1. Both ordered torture
2. Both ordered the invasion of a smaller and weaker country under causus belli that turned out to be not factual
3. Both ordered people detained without trial in prison camps
4. Both utilized the apparatus of the state to propagandize his nation's public for war
5. Both claimed that history would vindicate them when confronted with their own failures

- then the comparison is not so disingenuous.

Obviously, Bush was not Hitler. But that doesn't mean you can't compare specific acts of his to specific acts of Hitler's in a way that's illustrative and meaningful. The same with Obama and Lenin, or Cheney and Ahmadinejad, etc.

[The Full Lenin]

"The same with Obama and Lenin"

Not true. I actually cared about my country.

[Pro Libertate]

Comparing someone to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Genghis Khan, etc. requires that the comparison mean that there is some similarity in results or probable results associated with the action or characteristic in question, otherwise, you're just tarring your target with an extremely negative association.

I happen to know that Obama's real last name is Schicklgruber.

[Pro Libertate]

The reverse is true, too. Thus I say, "Gandhi was a lawyer."

[The Full Lenin]

"I happen to know that Obama's real last name is Schicklgruber."

Would that be the Strones Schicklgrubers?

[T]

I happen to know that Obama's real last name is Schicklgruber.

Well, if he was born in the former Belgian Congo I would have no problem believing you. But we all know he was born in Kenya, so I just don't buy it.

[PBR Street Gang]

"And then there was the time he rounded up and hung all those queers en mass. I came in my pants a little when that happened."

Got any pictures?"

Full Lenin, I hope you mean pictures of the first sentence not the second. Actually, that's no better, nevermind.

[Pro Libertate]

No, it's the Minehead Schicklgrubers.

[R C Dean]

I happen to know that Obama's real last name is Schicklgruber.

Pish. You can't prove that. You'd need his birth certificate.

[JB]

Please. 7 is the 'official' total. A lot more were killed in other incidents.

[Two Foot Stools]

Washington, DC - U.S. Congressman Mike Pence, Chairman of the House Republican Conference, in a speech on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives announced that he is introducing a resolution later today supporting the dissidents in Iran. Pence's remarks follow: "I come to this floor at an extraordinary moment on the global stage. "According to the Islamic Republic News Agency, the official news agency of Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad supposedly won the election over his primary opponent on 12 June, 2009. But from the very moment that that election result was announced, the international community and the international press called it into question. The basis for that, even before the extraordinary demonstrations had begun to take place, was the fact that these were paper ballots. But the official government results of the election were announced literally within hours of the polls being closed. Various media outlets around the world questioned the authenticity of the results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_LpvVFwybM

[Ayatollah Ali Khamenei]

Ahmadinejad is just a puppet. I run Iran.

"Ahmadinejad is just a puppet. I run Iran."

Really? Look out your window.

[Isaac Bartram]

Pish. You can't prove that. You'd need his birth certificate.

Dang, if I only had the right mad skillz I'd so scan one of my new Hawaian birth certificates and photoshop the hell out of it.

I don't need much imagination. A few visits to sites like lonewhackoff's would give me all the ideas I need.

I'd expose that non-natural-born phony oncet and for alls.

[Ayatollah Ali Khamenei]

We'll see...

[tense conjugation]

I run Iran I will run