Your Money's No Good Here
Generally, printing your own money is either (a) laughable or (b) illegal, depending on how closely your homespun bucks resemble U.S. tender and what exactly you were trying to do with them. But trend stories have been popping up lately about towns harkening back to Depression traditions and minting alternative currencies for local use. (Note: the upward trend is in trend stories, and not necessarily in the actual practice, which has been going on for several years in many small cities.) Still, it's pretty neat stuff. Some examples from a USA Today article today:
Under the BerkShares system, a buyer goes to one of 12 banks and pays $95 for $100 worth of BerkShares, which can be spent in 370 local businesses. Since its start in 2006, the system, the largest of its kind in the country, has circulated $2.3 million worth of BerkShares. In Detroit, three business owners are printing $4,500 worth of Detroit Cheers, which they are handing out to customers to spend in one of 12 shops.
During the Depression, local governments, businesses and individuals issued currency, known as scrip, to keep commerce flowing when bank closings led to a cash shortage.
Of course, alternative currencies can make the Feds nervous. Remember the Liberty Dollar raids? And God forbid American shopkeepers should accept pesos as an alternative to greenbacks.
One way to stay on the right side of a jealous U.S. Mint? Call your currency something silly and non-threatening, like Detroit Cheers, or something confusing, like Ithaca HOURs.
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I look forward to trading in Reason Drinks
'gimmee 5 bees for a quarter, we'd say'...
Has Rep. Michele Bachmann heard about this?
This type of suversive currency should not be allowed.
Once she defeats the specter of the US adopting a global currency to replace the dollar, she should get right on this
The Feds have good reason to be nervous.
You're trying too hard, Tom.
heck the feds even shut down e-gold, which was a worldwide gold based currency traded over the internet.
towns harkening back to Depression traditions
The preferred form is harking back, according to most authorities (including me).
So, wait, you mean Pacman Jones wasn't butchering the language when he spoke of going to a "scrip club"?
The preferred form is harking back, according to most authorities (including me).
Damn prescriptivists and their silly "preferred forms". I got yer l'ordinateur right year!
Based on what little information is provided in the USA Today article, this sounds more like a coupon system than alternative currencies.
Nowhere in America are there cash shortages (except maybe in a few polygamist compounds). If anything, there's too much cash. These things appear to be gimmicks to get people to spend more with participating merchants, like buying one of those entertainment books or getting free parking if you shop in stores X, Y, Z and get your stub stamped.
Now, if people who aren't in the group of participating merchants start using these things as currency among themselves, then we have something.
Hearken is better.
Shut yo mouf BoscoH. I was just being rebellion.
And put cute little salamanders. Even the secret service wouldn't arrest you for having money with cute little salamanders on it would they?
"Has Rep. Michele Bachmann heard about this?
This type of suversive currency should not be allowed.
Once she defeats the specter of the US adopting a global currency to replace the dollar, she should get right on this"
MSNBC much?
JP,
Ithaca has had the "hours" for a long time. I think locals will accept them amongst themselves, since they know they can use them locally. Not sure, Ive never been to Ithaca, but I know a good steamed ham when I taste one.
Hearken is better.
You see? This is why I hate writing with a large group. Everybody has their own little opinions, and it all gets homogenized, and you lose the whole edge of it. I'm going with jerk store! Jerk store is the line! Jerk store!
Give me the pump, the oil, the gasoline, and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away. I will give you safe passage in the Wasteland. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror. I await your answer.
Internet money
weighted against gold?
Interos?
anyone?
like If the global community of statists are
coming up with an alternative fiat reserve currency
surely we can do better
something electronic but pinned against gold
🙂
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-anarchism
A global meltdown of social democracy would be a good time to start
🙂
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_money
robc -- Interesting. Would be fun to go there and see how it actually plays out.
No! We go in! We kill them all! They kill us, we kill them! Kill them! Kill them! Kill! Kill!
The liberty dollar raids are a conspiracy theory. The government doesn't give a damn if we put stamps on metal or not. You think the government is worried about a bunch of conspiracy nuts starting a alternative curency that overthrows the US dollar?! please...you nutcases are going to create a Timothy McVeigh with all your extremist propaganda.
Episiarch,
But did the Humungus really mean it? I think he did.
Pro Liberate,
Clearly you are unaware of his record from when he ran for governor. Link. He's got my vote.
Say, is this the Humungus as he is today?
Naga,
He'd be a good successor to Conan.
You think the government is worried about a bunch of conspiracy nuts starting a alternative curency that overthrows the US dollar?!
nope
but it would be fun to do
wouldn't even need to overthrow the dollar
just something like paypal thats not fiat
sounds reasonable
and very do-able actually
Of course, none of these are nearly as important as Microsoft Points or Nintendo Points (formerly Wii Points) as new currencies.
I lived in Ithaca for five years. I heard of Ithaca Hours, but never saw anyone using them.
While liquidity problems are a good reason to have local currencies, one cannot ignore the essential mercantilism behind such alternate currencies as well. There is an underlying notion that my use of local currency will necessarily help my local community.
This not only smacks of anti-other bias, but it also sneers at the comparative advantages produced by trade and makes the local community worse off than they otherwise would be.
Pro Lib,
More like this.
Prescriptive grammar is classism in tweed coat, with racist patches on the elbows.
Word.
Aren't gift cards a form of alternate currency?
Naga,
IMDB says that Kjell Nilsson is now a software engineer in Australia. I don't know if the guy pictured in my link is the Kjell Nilsson, but he might be.
Aren't gift cards a form of alternate currency?
If so, then pre-loaded debit cards are as well.
Seems like there's plenty of alt-currency. The "crime" seems to be more of a trademark and likeness right infringement than the threat of out-right replacement.
Internet money
weighted against gold?
Interos?
anyone?
like If the global community of statists are
coming up with an alternative fiat reserve currency
surely we can do better
something electronic but pinned against gold
______________________________________
egold got taken down by the feds. liberty gold? but there are a few that are backed and weighted by gold and or silver stores. Its just finding wich provider most merchants work with in your desired area of purchase
Aren't gift cards a form of alternate currency?
Not if they don't adjust for inflation or float in value relative to the dollar.
Does the constitution explicitly grant the feds a monopoly on printed money?
Why exactly are they bothering to take down alternate currencies? That seems silly.
Hazel-
No. In addition, the constitution does not say that there can not be competitivie currencies.
Did any of you read their little comic on Ithaca Hours? It's basically anti-capitalist propaganda, marketed as a currency.
Read point #2 (near the middle of the page):
"Since an Hour = $10.00, we're raising the hourly wage. That benefits workers and businesses, too. Professionals may ask for more than one Hour per hour, but hours remind us that wealth comes from labor, and everyone deserves fair pay."
Apparently these folks don't accept the idea that intelligence is a marketable skill, and is worth more to the community than swinging a hammer.
Then, they go on to show how Hours are also a taxation scheme by #4, diverting 10% the value of their currency to charities (apparently an hour is actually worth $9.00). By #5, they're denouncing lending for interest as evil. At #6 they've denounced capitalism in general:
"...instead of this free-for-all that makes a few people richer, and the rest of us poorer."
At the end of it all, they insist that you still keep track of the worth of these Hours in dollars, so you can pay the IRS with them. It ends up nothing but a feel-good scheme to divert 10% of the income from the currency to charity and a mechanism to redistribute wealth to laborers.
That's fine, as long as people know exactly what they're doing. It's theft if they're trying to convince others to take them without explaining those details. It's a really bizarre outlet of socialism.
We need to get back to gold and silver. One can buy quarter ounces "medallions" of gold or silver. We can't fall for the Big Gooferment lies about money. It's too important to allow them to inflation tax us to death. No dollars, franc, euros or anything else intermediate to weight. Stay away from calling anything a dollar. If you need small change how about Forever stamps. Have to use gold to scare the "kings"!
Hmm. I wonder how hard it would be to set up a credit card and bank account denoted in gold that would be instantly convertable to dollars when you run the card through a credit card scanner.
Wonder if you could talk VISA or American Express into setting something like that up.
The Gummint wants us to start spending real money. Gobs of it. They also want us to save more, but at the same time they want us to buy more, with credit cards if need be, but without going into ruinous debt. They also want us to shove a whole cake down our throats while at the same time making it appear that the cake is still on the plate. Get it?
ed,
You fool! The only way that the cake will provide stimulus is if it's shoved in the anus.
Actually any kind of paper money is illegal in the US.
Article 1, section 8, gives the legislature the power to coin money. COIN! It doesn't say anything about print.
Article 1, section 10 denies the states the authority to "make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts". COIN!
Not only are all of these alternative currencies illegal, so is the Federal Reserve Note!
I have a gold dinar somewhere.
It is tiny, and worth about $200.
so I am not sure how gold coins work with small amounts of money.
How to you buy a coffee with gold?
"Remember the Liberty Dollar raids?"
The government is still holding the LD silver and gold. That metal didn't belong to LD. It belonged to the people who held paper and electronic LD warehouse receipts. The government simply absconded with thousands of people's property, without proving anyone's wrongdoing in court. Letters to the prosecutor and judge involved in the case have gone unanswered. It's as if the property has simply disappeared down a big, black hole; government has made neither explanation, nor apology, for stealing from its citizens. Not that anyone who frequents Reason should be surprised. But the level of arrogance and high-handedness in this case is remarkably breathtaking, even so. How can citizens get justice? For most, hiring a lawyer to get their property back would cost more than the property was worth. But in the aggregate, we're talking about a significant amount of precious metal.
raivo pommer-www.google.ee
raimo1@hot.ee
In New York hat der Hedgefonds-Manager Ezra Merkin ?rger mit der Justiz - weil er das Geld seiner Kunden allen Warnungen zum Trotz bei Madoff investierte.
Nicht nur der Milliardenbetr?ger Bernard Madoff selbst muss sich vor Gericht verantworten: Im Skandal um das dubiose Schneeballsystem des 70-J?hrigen hat die New Yorker Generalstaatsanwaltschaft nun den Hedge-Fonds-Manager Ezra Merkin angeklagt - weil dieser ohne Wissen seiner Kunden 2,4 Milliarden Dollar (1,8 Milliarden Euro) bei Madoff angelegt haben soll. Merkin habe zwar nichts von Madoffs gewaltigem Anlagebetrug gewusst, aber absichtlich alle Warnungen in Zusammenhang mit dessen riskanten Investitionen ignoriert, um riesige Honorare von seinen Kunden einzustreichen, sagte Generalstaatsanwalt Andrew Cuomo am Montag.
Der Klageschrift zufolge kassierten der fr?here Chairman der General Motors-Finanzsparte GMAC und drei seiner Fonds - Ascot, Gabriel und Ariel - insgesamt 470 Millionen Dollar von Kunden ein, die nun zur?ckgezahlt werden sollen. Merkins Anwalt Andrew Levander nannte die Klage "?berhastet und schlecht durchdacht" und k?ndigte Gegenschritte an.
igolder.com is doing something pretty interesting... similar to e-gold... but redeemable for physical gold from 1 gram up... and with no central vault/storage... making confiscation extremely difficult...
if 30 or 50 small businesses can get together to use Ithaca hours... what the hell is stopping you from getting some local traders together to accept constitutional money, gold and silver?
kwais,
"How to you buy a coffee with gold?"
...you don't, you buy it w/silver.
Of course in the future you'll have 1 milligram gold particles encased in plastic and handheld ultrasonic devices to measure purity/authenticity.
You guys know that merchants are not required to take USD for goods and services by federal law, right? Not cash, nothing. they can require payment in any form they like. and legal tender laws dont have a thing to do with it.
Your cosmotarian credits are no good here!
domo... wtf does it matter what the law says?
you want to stop me paying my dealer in gold? make me!
Community Currencies are very helpful, they keep the dollars you spend circulating locally. If you shop at Walmart or big chain store the dollars you spend leave the area never to circulate again. Use CC's and that dollar continues to circulate over and over around your community. More jobs, more business. Very helpful stuff.
Mark
Community Currency Magazine