Advice to GOP…

…just put your hands behind your back, whistle softly, walk away, and pretend like it never happened.

Come to think of it, I should probably do the same thing.

Comments

[Jes]

Shepard Smith told some of the same anecedotes during election night coverage. Fox News already had the blame Palin narrative ready by 8 pm election night.

[Apteryx]

Please run again in 2012, Governor Palin. The world needs laughter.

[Anon]

What you want to do, Radley, is take that column and pack it away for a few years, maybe incorrectly link it in the Reason archives. Could come in handy a few years down the line.

[Kolohe]

That Africa thing seems a little too good to be true, especially considering his sources have enough sour grapes to create metric tons of botrytis.

That said. I've basically followed the same arc as the esteemed Agitator wrt my opinion of Palin.

[Seward]

I suspect that large segments of the U.S. population thinks of Africa as a "nation" rather than as a continent.

[Hogan]

Nice cacti background. The stupid sounds too stupid to be likely, though.

[Larry McElhinney]

she's as aware of national and global politics as the average american - the only choice that made sense on election day was "none of the above" just like last time and the time before that and the time before that and the time before that and the time before that...

[Schempf]

I think the GOP was looking to find someone the American populace could identify with and it looks like they did.

[Trying to Be Generous]

Maybe she thought they meant South Africa.

[quasi]

Yuck. Its a good thing McCain lost, I'd hate to see a bunch of disloyal, factionalized dipshits try to assemble an administration.

[Kaiser]

Disclaimer: Sarah Palin is an idiot, I would never give her a vote and hopefully she will disappear from the political spectrum BUT...

I don't really think she was a bad choice. For a couple of reasons. The VP pick is usually made to complement the presidents weaknesses or to garner more votes from a specific demographic. Let us not forget the VP's duties basically involve breaking a tie vote in congress and to act as President in case the president is incapable of performing his duties. Biden was picked for the same reason, until his announcement BHO was railed on for his inexperience. (arguably part of the reason they let up was Palin)

The other reason I have, was that this was a Democratic year. It was BHO's to lose from the beginning. So many people are disenfranchised by the Republican party you almost could have put Hitler himself as the nominee and he would have won. By choosing Palin I am sure he was just hoping to garner votes from the PUMA people and possibly some other feminists that may be willing to depart from the Democrats. IT was a very risky choice but overall I don't think it was a terrible one. McCain's entire campaign was just a farce from the beginning (or at least after the primaries.) It is easy to nit pick things in hind sight however the Palin pick was just one in the list of many that lead to his defeat.

[Boston]

I was going to say "die in a fire" but to each their own.

[nj]

Woah, the idea that Palin thought Africa was one country bit seems too good to be true.

[quasi]

I don't believe the anecdotes coming-out about Governor Palin. McCain had a bunch of David Gerganesque advisors who couldn't be trusted to vet the VP choice w/o leaking it to the press. These same advisors have been hedging their bets all along. Yuck.

Palin's no Encyclopedia Clintonica, but she's not a stupid rube either. The notion that she wasn't prepped for Gibson or Couric is laughable-part of her problem in both cases was trying to latch-on to the correct campaign talking points.

The diva/prima donna claims are pretty ridiculous, too. She is reasonably vain (e.g., french manicure, lasik [yes, the glasses are cosmetic now], attention to hair care, occassional use of hair extensions). And she is incredibly disciplined about her schedule and use of time. I can see her laying in to a few of the more "casually scheduled" of the McCain people. She should have laid into them about letting their boss blow the election by suspending the campaign, betraying the house republicans, and then apologizing it to david letterman...

[quasi]

Sarah Palin is an idiot

No one who has met or worked with her would claim that. She is inexperienced, headstrong, confident, and bossy. She's not an intellectual in that she's not an abstract thinker, and she's not an academic.

But she's smart, gets (mostly good) things done, and has a stable set of values that makes her behavior predictable to potential voters. The nightmare being put out by her detractors w/in the campaign is crap. Keep in mind, these guys need jobs now & feeding a highlight to the media isn't a bad way to get a few pundit slots thrown your way.

[Bramblyspam]

I think McCain's biggest blown opportunity was probably when he came out in favor of the bailout. If he had come out against it, while Obama was for it, he may well have been able to swing a couple percentage points from Obama to McCain. That would've tied up the ballgame right there.

[Brownie]

quasi, you're probably right that she's not an "idiot" in the traditional sense - she's a talented politician, and I'm sure she has a great grasp on all the issues facing Alaskans. But I think it became pretty clear that she doesn't have much fluency on issues of national importance, and her sphere of expertise has very little overlap with the skill set we usually demand of someone aspiring to the vice presidency.

[joshua corning]

Woah, the idea that Palin thought Africa was one country bit seems too good to be true.

Obama thinks there are 57 states...

But I guess that is unfair...let us only compare Palin's lack of knowledge to Biden's....

[Nash]

"I think McCain's biggest blown opportunity was probably when he came out in favor of the bailout. If he had come out against it, while Obama was for it, he may well have been able to swing a couple percentage points from Obama to McCain. That would've tied up the ballgame right there."

I think this was the biggest mistake of the McCain campaign. He had an opportunity to distinguish himself as an alternative to both Bush and the Democrats while simultaneously appealing to conservatives but instead resorted to "Me Too".

Maybe it doesn't deliver the White House but it at least gives the GOP some ammunition against the coming economic government intervention for the next 4-8 years. As it stands now they can't even pretend to be less inclined than the Democrats.

[Reg]

"We're told" / "aids say" blah blah..

I think one problem with both parties are these horrible aids and staffers. Where do these people come from?

[Pepe]

"I think one problem with both parties are these horrible aids and staffers. Where do these people come from?"

Law school?

[cmoney]

anyone who thinks she's an idiot is, well, an idiot. These reports are so obviously bogus. Plenty of people, even from the left, who came into close contact with her marveled at her ability to soak up information and her photographic-like memory.

She may not be the most educated, but idiotic she is not. The only way idiots get that far in politics is if they're born into it.

[John]

These are quotes coming from bitter McCain loyalists who want to take as much heat off their guy as possible. McCain would have done no better with Romney, Pawlenty and would have done far worse with Lieberman with many pro-life voters staying home.

[Max]

McCain's compaign reflected McCain. He's an erratic hothead, and it showed. Thank God such a person is not in control of thousands of nuclear weapons.

[Kenneth]

I can only hope that the Repubs take some time off to think before they try foisting another George Bush off on us, or should I say a Dick, since Cheney was the power behind this administration.

[Patrick]

Several things.

One the McCain camp of "handlers" could be a tad more pedantic if they actually expect me to believe that Sarah Palin did not know Africa was a continent.

Two, I absolutely doubt, hothead that he may be that McCain would willingly endorse the future of Palin to his supporters had he and she disagreed so vehemently. I even in grace, he would have been more muted and just thanked her.

Three, if George W. Bush did not accidentally fire off a missile or that goofy I am actually smart but can't keep my fly zipped doof Clinton, I very much doubt John McCain would flippantly fire off nuclear arms.

Four, if anyone thinks that the Republicans are already not swarming for a controllable face and shell like Bush they are kidding themselves.

Five, I really do not care anyhow, the Republicans keep talking a big game and delivering wasted years, they are no better then the Democrats in their will to trash the constitution.

[Sean Healy]

McCain would have done no better with Romney, Pawlenty and would have done far worse with Lieberman with many pro-life voters staying home.

How do you think he would have done with Tom Ridge? Winning Pennsylvania sure wouldn't have hurt. The places where pro-life voters are strongest are also the places least likely to vote for a black man. In other words, states McCain was always going to win.

The Palin pick totally screwed him. And she's a moron. The evidence has been there for all of us to see for the last eight weeks. We don't need anonymous leaks from McCain staffers to verify it.

[Kaiser]

cmoney

anyone who thinks she's an idiot is, well, an idiot. These reports are so obviously bogus. Plenty of people, even from the left, who came into close contact with her marveled at her ability to soak up information and her photographic-like memory.

She may not be the most educated, but idiotic she is not. The only way idiots get that far in politics is if they're born into it.

Sean Healy

The Palin pick totally screwed him. And she's a moron. The evidence has been there for all of us to see for the last eight weeks. We don't need anonymous leaks from McCain staffers to verify it.

I am not validating the stories in that broadcast by calling Palin an idiot. I even think, as I mentioned in my post, that she wasn't a terrible pick in the least. However, as Mr. Healy said the evidence is there for all of us to see. I don't need an inside person to make my opinion of her being an idiot. Maybe I am wrong, maybe she is very bright but I have not met her so I go on what I see. If she is such an amazingly bright person why doesn't it show....at all?

Also I do not base this opinion off of one interview, such as the Couric interview. I realize those can be skewed and edited, but for the love of god she has done nothing but sound more and more ignorant every time I have heard her speak. To be honest, personally I hope she does not come back to the political spectrum in 4 years, but I am not saying she can't. I realize she is very popular in her home town and you can always learn a lot, especially over a 4 year period.

[Godless American]

On the bright side, a bigoted airhead dipshit who was already in power got her big-haired Christian head handed to her. It's been real, Liddy. Don't be a stranger. I kid. Be one. Please.

[Crow Eating Dumbass]

"Obama thinks there are 57 states..."

Yeah, Obama actually thinks that. He did not mispeak a line, he actually believes that! He never learned how many states there were at Harvard graduating with honors!

C'mon.

This is the conservative problem that was displayed with claims that Biden was just as dumb as Palin. Biden gave 57 press conferences in the same period that Palin gave 2 interviews (Gibson and Couric). When someone answers that many aggresive questions they will misspeak some. But it was clear to most voters that when a person barely speaks but when she does she flubs and struggles that there is a difference. One misspoke a couple of times which is easy to do and to be captured in the media when you regularly talk to folks and are scrutinized, and the other is not that bright.

And you know what I'm waiting for: Palin-Huckabee 2012!

[Fluffy]

I find this eminently believable.

I said in one of the previous Palin threads that I thought that her journalism degree was a glorified communications degree, that her intended career path was to become a weather girl or sportscast girl, and that her entire political career was a complete accident.

She demonstrates all the characteristics of the pretty girl at college who didn't know about, well, anything, but aimed for a career that used her looks to best advantage. She may not be stupid in the sense of having limited mental ability, but she's almost certainly one of those people who has no grasp of the historical, geographical, and literary "trivia" we expect an educated person to know, because of her Pretty Girl Life Experience.

[Kaiser]

Crow Eating Dumbass

And you know what I'm waiting for: Palin-Huckabee 2012!

OMG then we get the chance to say Puckabee!! Hey it may be a terrible ticket but who could pass up that opportunity.

[ed]

her journalism degree was a glorified communications degree

Given the current state of journalism, can you tell me the difference, Fluffy?

[Elemenope]

Given the current state of journalism, can you tell me the difference...

A communications degree includes some material on theory.

Journalism classes are those classes where you learn that lede is spelled "L-E-D-E", and is often followed by a funny sounding thing called a "nut graph" (they don't help you with spelling nut graf in those classes, I hear.)

[Fluffy]

No, Ed, I guess I can't.

I'm just saying that if there are two people in a room - a cable TV sports show interview girl, and a girl working for the Harvard Crimson, and I ask each of them what their Achilles' heel is, the first girl will probably give me the same evasive expression and answer Palin would.

[domoarrigato]

Fluffy,

Dead on - which is why the SNL skits with Tina Fey winking and prancing and posing are so funny. It highlights how SP is a bimbo. A bimbo, despite her obvious intelligence, in the sense that the tools life has taught her to use are mostly superficial not intellectual.

[Abdul]

Radley: most forthright disclosure ever.

I thought Pepe's comment was a thread-winner.

On the Palin question: I'm a little too cynical to believe that Palin didn't know that Africa is a continent based on hearsay from an anonymous staffer with an axe to grind.

[Elemenope]

Dead on - which is why the SNL skits with Tina Fey winking and prancing and posing are so funny. It highlights how SP is a bimbo. A bimbo, despite her obvious intelligence, in the sense that the tools life has taught her to use are mostly superficial not intellectual.

But, but, but...she knows energy policy!!!

Seriously, though, this whole thing seems like a pile-on for the purposes of scapegoating the GOP loss on an admittedly ridiculous public personage.

[domoarrigato]

El, you're right - we are piling on. but are we scapegoating? I mean there are so many mistakes to choose from - I'm sure this is not the only (or even worst) one we could talk about - it's just the one this thread is about.

[Elemenope]

domoarrigato --

I think that we are not scapegoating, exactly. After all, it is not our sins that are being cast onto the goat for Azazel...it's the GOP's. My point was that these stories (which have lately come out in something of a gush) all seem to originate with a GOP campaign operative who could have a horse in their little upcoming internecine bloodbath. They are, I think inarguably, scapegoating. All that is left is determining how much of the pile-on is deserved and how much is just pile-on.

To me it strikes like polishing the brass on the Titanic, but I'm not a Republican, so the view may well be different from inside the ship.

[BakedPenguin]

Biden gave 57 press conferences in the same period that Palin gave 2 interviews...

You sure that wasn't 50 conferences, CED?

I was willing to allow some lack of knowledge, and answering off-the-cuff questions with precision, speed and grammatical correctness takes practice. But I never heard her say anything that implied she had a modicum of intelligence. Still, there is a huge difference between not knowing facts and being too stupid to learn them.

To me it strikes like polishing the brass on the Titanic

More like looting the silver out of a burning house...

[domoarrigato]

Ah - I see you are saying that operative is scapegoating - not the people on this thread. that definition of "this whole thing" makes more sense.

[John]

I don't get Radley's whole "she is an idiot" claim. What did Radley get drunk and hit on her and get turned down back in college or something? His hatred of Palin and the whole "idiot" line is really odd. I would love to pluck Radley up and make him a major party candidate over night and have the media desend on him like a pack of wolves and see how well he does. I also would like to see Radley go out and run for mayor of wherever he lives and see if he can end up as governor. I doubt he would do one tenth as well as Palin did. If she is an idiot what does that make him?

No one right or left who as actually met and worked with Palin thinks she is an idiot. Yes a bunch of reptilian campaign managers don't like her, but since when did the dislike of a bunch sleazy spinmeisters become anything but a badge of honor? I understand why Reason hates McCain. The guy is responsible for campaign finance reform. That alone ought to earn him a lot of hatred.

Radley wierd obsession and hatred of Palin says more about him than it does about her.

[T]

My point was that these stories (which have lately come out in something of a gush) all seem to originate with a GOP campaign operative who could have a horse in their little upcoming internecine bloodbath.

I'll just speculate here. If you want a job on the next big campaign, do you suck it up and admit your strategies and campaign work failed while promising to do better next time? Or do you try to pin it on somebody whose selection can be blamed wholly on the candidate and who isn't likely to be able to do much about it? I'm thinking the quest for future employment is leading some ex-McCainiacs to pile on Palin.

[domoarrigato]

Oh, I'm no palin fan, but giving biden "credit" for doing so many press conferences by comparison seems a bit spurious. The real challange is to get the guy to shut up at the right moment - arguably he would have been even more effective had he said less.

[joe]

Awesome. Civil War.

The Republican Party is riven between thugs and sleazy operators. The thugs made it clear a couple of weeks ago that they were going to rally around Sarah Palin, that they were going to treat support for her as the basic test of Republican loyalty, and purge everyone who faltered. Now the operators are striking back.

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

[John]

Further, what did Palin ever say in the campaign that was half as stupid as "they are going to test him"? That was not only stupid but downright dangerous now that Biden is actually VP. God only knows what that idiot is going to say over the next four years. Regardless, I doubt Radley will ever heap the scorn on Biden that he heaps on Palin.

[domoarrigato]

John, I think the "you couldn't do any better" argument is kinda disingenuous. Some people would never run for office - don't want power - would rather raise their families in peace. Doesn't mean they aren't smarter/couldn't do better in office than the power hungry perps that get elected.

[John]

Enjoy the next two months Joe. Come January Democrats will have to start leading as opposed to throwing temper fits. It is going to be so much fun. Russia is saying they are going to deploy missiles on their western border in response to our missile defense system in the Czech Republic. Hamas is rocketing Israel again. Iran is busy beavering away enriching urainium and signing a deal with Russia to build a new pipeline in the Caucasis. Sadly, the world will not allow us to engage in the frivolity of the Clinton Administration and blowjobs and blue dresses.

The room where they give the new Pope his robes and garb is called "The Crying Room" because when the person realizes the job he is facing he usually cries. If Dear Leader hasn't started crying yet, he will. Have fun Joe.

[domoarrigato]

joe - I guess that's how the party rights itself - by kicking out the d-bags that screwed it up and lost their way. It might be entertaining for you, but it ultimately makes your competition stronger. Not that I care - I just hope they kick the fundies out of the party.

[Steven Coalbear]

Comparing the GOP to the Titanic is a terrible analogy. This party isn't sinking, it's soaring! If anything, this is like polishing the brass on the Hindenburg.

[joe]

John, name a political magazine, or newspaper, or journal, or web site, that you read to learn about politics and events.

Name a Supreme Court case other than Roe v. Wade. Any Supreme Court case will do.

[John]

"John, I think the "you couldn't do any better" argument is kinda disingenuous. Some people would never run for office - don't want power - would rather raise their families in peace. Doesn't mean they aren't smarter/couldn't do better in office than the power hungry perps that get elected."

If Radley were saying she was a bad politician, you would be right. But he is not saying that. He is just being a nasty fuck and implying that she is an "idiot" and he means it. To say Palin is dumb is just invective not arguement and a waste of space on Reason. Radley needs to get over himself and go back to writing police stories.

[domoarrigato]

John - but look for the Oprah special on how Michelle decorates the lincoln bedroom to dominate the news.

[Elemenope]

I'll just speculate here. If you want a job on the next big campaign, do you suck it up and admit your strategies and campaign work failed while promising to do better next time? Or do you try to pin it on somebody whose selection can be blamed wholly on the candidate and who isn't likely to be able to do much about it? I'm thinking the quest for future employment is leading some ex-McCainiacs to pile on Palin.

Thing is, if it were me looking to hire a political operative, I'd be looking for guys who didn't publicly blame their past losses on their own candidate.

[John]

Joe last night a friend of my wife's husband was talking to me. i have met this guy like ten time. He is a law student. I am a lawyer. I couldn't remember what the hell he did for a living and asked him. It was a bit embarassing. Catch me or anyone at the right time and I can give a really stupid answer to any question. We are people not computers.

[Jon H]

Fluffy wrote: "I'm just saying that if there are two people in a room - a cable TV sports show interview girl, and a girl working for the Harvard Crimson, and I ask each of them what their Achilles' heel is, the first girl will probably give me the same evasive expression and answer Palin would."

Actually, the sports person might have run across it in terms of sports injuries. But the Crimson girl would more likely know who Achilles was.

[Jon H]

In 2012, the GOP base will be saying that you don't have to be smart to be President, all you need is two bent twigs and a prayer cloth.

[joe]

Radley wierd obsession and hatred of Palin says more about him than it does about her.

Actually, Radley' "weird obsession" is in line witht he perceptions of a large majority of Americans. It's those who still think of her as popular, smart, and able who are the fringe.

Come January Democrats will have to start leading as opposed to throwing temper fits. Yes, the world will the back to normal. The party that is wholly incapable of governing, but which excels at media strategy and attacks, will be back in the opposition, while the party that is wholly incompetent as an opposition party but can run the government without looting half of it and letting the other half collapse will be back in power.

C'mon, admit it; the Republicans were never cut out to be a governing party. They're like the LibDems in England.

[Sports Bimbo]

Oh no, I've been very lucky - I had shin splints two years ago when I trained for a marathon, but that was it.

[domoarrigato]

C'mon, admit it; the Republicans were never cut out to be a governing party. They're like the LibDems in England.

joe, would you be happy with one party rule?

[joe]

Hell, no! We need an opposition, to keep things honest.

[A Well Thought Out Answer]

That's why I say, I like every American I'm speaking with we're ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the tax payers looking to bailout.

But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up the economy- Helping the - Oh, it's got to be about job creation too. Shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americas.

And trade we've got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive scary thing. But 1 in 5 jobs being created in the trade sector today. We've got to look at that as more opportunity. All those things under the umbrella of job creation.

This bailout is a part of that.

[D.A. Ridgely]

Did I correctly hear the reporter state there were "problems with her knowledgability"?

[Radley Balko]

Regardless, I doubt Radley will ever heap the scorn on Biden that he heaps on Palin.

Uh, did you read the article I linked in the post? I initially defended Palin.

As for heaping scorn on Biden, I took time out of my vacation to write a 1,000 word post expressing my disappointment in Obama's selection. Here's the gist:

He's an overly ambitious, elitist, tunnel-visioned, Potomac-fevered Beltway dinosaur, with all the trappings. He may well have been the worst possible pick among congressional Democrats when it comes to the drug war and criminal justice.

http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/23/biden/

I suppose I could have been harder on him. Maybe if I just out and out called him an asshole.

If you can look at all that's come out about Palin and still conclude that she's "smart" or was anything but a cynical and desperate choice for McCain, John, it isn't my turning on Palin that's pathological, it's your obsessive defense of her.

[domoarrigato]

well if the GOP are supposed to be keeping us honest - you probably ought to be a bit less elated right now.

[Don Mynack]

Palin has been disappointing, mostly because she just wasn't ready. I don't think she lacks intelligence, I think she lacks experience and knowledge - things that can be gained. However, you only get one chance to make a first impression, and she's got a tall hill to climb to overcome this. I can't see voting for her in a primary over a Flake or a Pence-type. Paul will probably be too old by then...

[dhex]

clinging to palin is probably a good way to ensure a decade and a half of democratic wins.

since the purported republican attachment to small government is a mythical animal, like a unicorn, and i don't have any virgins with which to trap this supposed relationship between the gop and minarchist thought, i don't know how much that matters. they're going to play the social conservative game, perhaps not realizing that minority blocks that are lukewarm or openly hostile to teh gheys are generally openly hostile to republicans as well. who knows? weirder things have happened.

i don't think calling palin a bimbo is fair, as - winking aside - it's not like she's all va va va voom out there.

maybe in private she's reeling off recitations in classical greek, or reading printed material on this strange technology we call "paper" - lord knows the public and private spheres are often separated by a veil not unlike maya. if this is what the republicans want to continue with, good luck to them. calling her libertarian leaning because she hunts and does other things which tap right-libertarian sensibilities - the faded genetic echo of KULTUR WAR - is a great game if you're into farce, but i've always been more of a surrealist so it's not really my thing.

[creech]

As one Republican said to me, "If only Mitt Romney had been, say, a Presbyterian."

[mantooth]

"What did Radley get drunk and hit on her and get turned down back in college or something?"

That could be possible. Radley, did you go to Hawaii Pacific, North Idaho Community College, University of Idaho, or Matanuska-Susitina Community College?

[Mo]

i don't think calling palin a bimbo is fair, as - winking aside - it's not like she's all va va va voom out there.

There are smart bimbos. Bimbotude is how you carry yourself. Let's not forget, though attractive people get more perks and favors, when they fuck up, they get punished more. That's the case right now. The problem is Palin should have known that she had significant weaknesses on national issues and passed* on the job offer. Heck, for all of her supposed expertise on energy issues, she routinely had no clue what share of oil, energy, etc. Alaska provided for the US (always on the high side). As inexperienced as Reagan and Clinton supposedly were, they knew national issues cold when they ran for president, Palin didn't. That's her fault.

I don't care if you're a 2 day or 2 term governor, if you don't understand national issues, you shouldn't run for national office.

[robc]

Mo,

As inexperienced as Reagan and Clinton supposedly were, they knew national issues cold when they ran for president, Palin didn't.

Palin hasnt run for president. Yet. Maybe she will cram on that stuff over the next 4 years. Who knows?

[Mo]

Palin hasnt run for president. Yet. Maybe she will cram on that stuff over the next 4 years. Who knows?

You're right she didn't. But as vice president, you still need to know national issues cold as well. Especially because she didn't have a year or two of campaigning to get an understanding, she had 2 months until election day and 4 until inauguration. That's a lot to cram while running a campaign at the same time.

[robc]

VPs can learn the stuff once in office. Yeah, there is the risk that McCain might have pulled a William Henry Harrison, but its unlikely.

[robc]

Of course, if we reduced the presidency to its constitutional role, the amount of stuff you need to know is much less. Hmmm....maybe a president who doesnt know stuff is what we need - of course we would need a sort of socratic "I know what I dont know" president to pull that off.

[Jon H]

"Especially because she didn't have a year or two of campaigning to get an understanding"

That's usually preceded by some period, usually years I bet, of presidential ambition, and an inclination towards getting this kind of knowledge.

Most people who aspire to run for president in 4-8 years aren't going to be focusing exclusively on local issues. They're going to be fitting themselves into the presidential mold, staying informed, thinking about issues, etc.

[I, Kahn O\'Clast]

Idiot is not the word for Palin. "Willfully Ignorant" is. That's why she appealed to the Republican Base since it too is populated by people who are willfully ignorant themselves. People who believe that the Bible is the word of god, that the end times are near, that deny evolution, etc etc. These people cotton to Palin because she, like them, is an "anti-elitist".

What newspapers do you read? Couric asked. Rather than following Bush's lead and admitting that she does not read any she punts and hems and haws and says "all of them". Please.

Those of us who are elitists think that people who believe as she does are idiots, but that's not always the case. There is a deep culture of willful ignorance and the larger the population of that culture, the more the support for Palin in the polls.

[TrickyVic]

"""Obama thinks there are 57 states..."""

He misspoke. The Bush admin was great at that.

Being Obama is the President elect, it's ok to compare him to Bush now.

57 states vs childrens. Obama has a long way to go before he looks as moronic as Bush. But he's got plenty of time.

""""Uh, did you read the article I linked in the post? I initially defended Palin."""

And pointed out that the libretarians could do worse. Of course that was before the republican party had their way with her. I think the republican party isn't ready for her. Not that I like her that much but she was a DC outsider, pro gun, and from a state that's been big on individual liberty, that I do like. But the republican party wanted to mold her their way. The republican party blew it more than Palin.

[John]

"Hell, no! We need an opposition, to keep things honest."

Joe that is the funniest thing you have ever written in your entire life. You have never made one honest criticism of a Democrat in your life. Of course you want one party rule. I will give you this, you don't want to put anyone in camps, but you do feel that only you and people like you have the right to have any say over their lives. The last time the Democrats ruled anything, it lasted two years before their control of Congress collapsed in a head of ineptitude, theft and corruption and that was a Congress that still had people like Danial Moynahan, Bob Kerry and Sam Nunn. Now you have Reid and Pelosi. I give this Congress six months. What is the approval rating of Congress 12% last I looked? Yeah, the Democrats are the annointed party all right.

[pinko]

Given the number of people I've heard--talk radio, various TV personalities, some of the posters here (John et al)--still trying to defend this pathetic excuse for a VP candidate, it looks like the Republican party is going to have to spend a biblical amount of time in the wilderness in order to get their shit together. The rest of us grown-ups (you know, the ones who believe that intellectual curiosity, expertise, actual knowledge about the world around us are desirable qualities that you don't suddenly acquire overnight by cramming) will keep the seat at the table warm for you. Take as long as you want.

[TrickyVic]

I have advice for the GOP. Next time you get power, don't act like a douchebag and practice what you preach.

Too simple?

[John]

"And pointed out that the libretarians could do worse. Of course that was before the republican party had their way with her. I think the republican party isn't ready for her. Not that I like her that much but she was a DC outsider, pro gun, and from a state that's been big on individual liberty, that I do like. But the republican party wanted to mold her their way. The republican party blew it more than Palin."

You are right. She is an outsider and pro gun and from state not federal government. She ought to be the kind of person libertarians cut some slack to. Instead, Reason cut her no slack and hate her guts. Reason is more about culture than it is about policy. She is not one of them so they don't like her.

[John]

"Given the number of people I've heard--talk radio, various TV personalities, some of the posters here (John et al)--still trying to defend this pathetic excuse for a VP candidate, it looks like the Republican party is going to have to spend a biblical amount of time in the wilderness in order to get their shit together. The rest of us grown-ups (you know, the ones who believe that intellectual curiosity, expertise, actual knowledge about the world around us are desirable qualities that you don't suddenly acquire overnight by cramming) will keep the seat at the table warm for you. Take as long as you want."

Intellectual curiosity my fucking ass. The conservative pundits who slammed on Palin (Noonan and Brooks and their ilk) are a bunch of pseudo-intellectual posers who are more worried about kissing the right liberal ass and being "acceptable" to the right people than they are about thinking or actually changing anything.

[John]

It is not so much that I like Palin that much. It is more that I can't stomach the beltway ass kissing fake intellectuals who slam on her. The woman made the right enemies on both sides of the isle. She can't be that bad.

[dhex]

She can't be that bad.

john, sometimes the enemy of my enemy is still my enemy. and i sure as hell don't see the libertarian cred coming from governor of the most collectivist state in the union - i mean, wealth sharing? holy frickin' crap, man! how much more commie do you need? the fur hat with the hammer and sickle?

as an aside, what is a "pseudo-intellectual"?

[dhex]

I don't care if you're a 2 day or 2 term governor, if you don't understand national issues, you shouldn't run for national office.

needless to say the quote above seems so obvious as to be nearly painful, and yet...so terribly misunderstood by so very many people. this seems like the most basic barrier of entry.

mo, i see where you're coming from, but i still think bimbo is needlessly charged in terms of the sexual connotations. she's not waving her fanny at the crowd and whatnot.

the wink though...yeah. that was pretty close to the flippin' line.

[pinko]

No seriously,
John, when you and your ilk grow the fuck up and start fielding adult candidates again, we can all talk grown-up politics, Bill Kristol can come to.

"DC outsider, pro gun, and from a state that's been big on individual liberty"

Sorry, the DC outsider, pro-shooting wolves from planes or whatever other puerile nonsense you want to trot as a substitute for actual qualifications only continues to indicate that you are in deep denial and need to wake and grow the fuck up.

[TrickyVic]

"""Instead, Reason cut her no slack and hate her guts."""

Like this?
http://www.reason.com/news/show/128695.html

[joe]

creech | November 6, 2008, 10:13am | #

As one Republican said to me, "If only Mitt Romney had been, say, a Presbyterian."

Why? Does being a Presbyterian allow you give good speeches while appearing not to be a smarmy creep?

Because Mittens could have really used that.

Seriously, Mitterns/Palin in 2112! Or Palin/Mittens. Either one will be fine.

[John]

"as an aside, what is a "pseudo-intellectual"?"

I won't highjack the thread on a debate about Alaska politics. Suffice it to say I disagree with you. But to answer that question, a pseudo-intellectual is someone who knows the words but doesn't know the meanings, a bullshit artist basically. That is what most journalists who write on editorial pages are. They have never done anything practical, so they don't know much about the world. That would be okay, if they were truly experts in a field. Some of them are true experts. Paul Krugman, for all of his faults, really is a big brain economist and not a poser. Most of them are just journalists who can a few sentences together and look thoughtful. I hate that. Noonan has always been one of my pet peeves even though she is a conservative. What exactly does that woman do? She was a speech writer, big deal. She basically gets paid because she is easy on the eyes and can bloviate about this or that in a non-threatening way. I have more respect for the screamers and lunatics like Oberman or O'Reilly. At least they don't pretend to be anything beyond what they are.

This bread of beltway pundit right and left who joined in on the piling on Palin that I really despise. It would have been one thing if they had been partisan hacks like Joe and were just calling in from the peanut gallery. But they have pretensions to be something beyond. But they can't. None of them, unless they are writing a column on it and trying to look erudite, know the pre-emption from re-emption, but someone like Noonan can sit there and tisk tisk because Palin didn't know the Bush doctrine. Yeah whatever Peggy.

[joe]

Oh, John, stop whining at me. It's all you ever do anymore.

BTW, "that's the funniest thing you've ever written" is your new "Yeah, joe." It's what you write when you have aboslutely nothing to say except what a terrible, terrible person I am.

I've criticized plenty of Democrats; that I don't do so as the entirety of what I write, which is what it would take to satisfy you, is officially not my problem.

[joe]

John, if you despise elitist pseudo-intellectuals who comment about politics without having done anything practical, why do over half of your comments consist of cut and paste jobs from National Review Online?

Does Rich Lowry have a sheep ranch I don't know about?

[John]

"I've criticized plenty of Democrats; that I don't do so as the entirety of what I write, which is what it would take to satisfy you, is officially not my problem."

No you haven't Joe. You wouldn't even criticize John Murtha the other day. Go and do a search and cut and paste any criticize you have ever made of a Democrat on here and prove me wrong. I don't think you can find one. But if you can, I will take that back. Until you can, shut up and admit that you have never done it.

[joe]

Sarah Palin can't actually be dumb or ill-informed, because something something something about what kind of people are better.

There, John, you can take the rest of the day off.

[joe]

I'm not your mouthpiece, John. That I don't single out people for criticism at your command doesn't tell us a whole lot.

[John]

Joe,

You won't even criticize Joe Biden. Come on Joe, if you have all of these secret criticisms of Democrats, lay it all out right here. Just tell us four or five things you find wrong with the Democratic Party and name two or three nationally known Democrats you think are baffoons. That is all you have to do. Name Names. What Democrats don't you like?

[John]

You won't do it Joe because you can't. There are no Democrats you dislike and are no Democratic policies you object to no matter how crazy or contradictory. I really think sometimes someone locked you in a room and did some kind of experiment on you. I have never seen anything like it.

[joe]

joe | September 29, 2008, 2:50pm | #

The Democrats could have passed this thing without one Republican vote, letalone the forty or fifty that they got.

One possibility is that the Democrats pass a Democratic bill - one that negotiated not between the leadership (which leans strongly centrist/DLC) and the Republicans, but between the different factions of the Democratic caucus.

This would mean that Henny Stoyer or whatever the hell his name is goes from being the leftmost faction at the table to the rightmost.

I wouldn't count on it, though. Harry Reid's testicles get sucked up into this abdominal cavity when a Republican looks at him cross-eyed.

Haha, John. You are a such a hack.

[Mo]

i still think bimbo is needlessly charged in terms of the sexual connotations.

Fair enough. Though there are mimbos.

a pseudo-intellectual is someone who knows the words but doesn't know the meanings, a bullshit artist basically.

Like say ... you?

Intellectual curiosity my fucking ass. The conservative pundits who slammed on Palin (Noonan and Brooks and their ilk) are a bunch of pseudo-intellectual posers who are more worried about kissing the right liberal ass and being "acceptable" to the right people than they are about thinking or actually changing anything.

Do you include Powell and Eagleburger in that group? If not, why is their criticism valid, but Noonan's and the Brooks' aren't? They made the same criticism.

[joe]

It's "buffoon," John. Buffoon. This is a word you should have some familiarity with.

Second, why, exactly, would I go ahead and do that? To make you happy?

But your tears are so yummy and sweet this week!

[John]

"I wouldn't count on it, though. Harry Reid's testicles get sucked up into this abdominal cavity when a Republican looks at him cross-eyed."

That is right Joe you criticized Harry Reid, once. Wow. The conditioning must be wearing off. But of course you didn't criticize him for what he thought or anything substantive, only that he didn't have the courage to stand up to those evil Republicans. So the conditioning is still pretty strong.

[joe]

Here, here are some more, John:

joe | October 21, 2008, 9:16am | #

"Once we get past the present emergency, which requires immediate new investments, we have to break that cycle of debt."

I never knew Barack Obama had so much in common with Tom Delay.

im n yr bujjit, strvin yr beest!

...

joe | October 21, 2008, 9:33am | #

Cool, I can pay off a little more of my credit card with another stimulus check.

I, too, will be socializing my private sector debt.

Stupid helicopter money. How many times does this strategy have to fail before they stop trying it?

But remember, I don't ever critize the Democrats, or any of their policies. You can tell this is true, because John thinks I'm too pro-Democrat.

[dhex]

But to answer that question, a pseudo-intellectual is someone who knows the words but doesn't know the meanings, a bullshit artist basically.

john the palin joke here...do you see it? it is writing itself.

in all seriousness, stick to using "bullshit artist" because that honestly sounds better. and makes more sense. pseudo-intellect makes me think of pseudo-dionysius and we don't really need to travel that road, do we?

anyway, needless to say we disagree. peggy noonan is a writer. if being a writer isn't "doing anything" than you've disqualified a lot of facets of american life and, well, there ya go...

[joe]

Keep it up, John. You're becoming like the Life of Brian:

OK, other than the aquaduct, roads, civil order, medicine, and engineering, name one thing the Romans have given us?

[John]

"Second, why, exactly, would I go ahead and do that? To make you happy?"

To show that you actually think about things and say things in good faith. If you always think the same side is right and never criticize that side, you are not very serious. You are not a stupid guy Joe. It is not like you are Mo or someone. That is why it is disapointing you will defend the indefensable sometimes with the Dems. You would be so much more interesting to go back and forth with if you would just break away be a little more independent.

[John]

"anyway, needless to say we disagree. peggy noonan is a writer. if being a writer isn't "doing anything" than you've disqualified a lot of facets of american life and, well, there ya go..."

True but I don't consider her a serious writer. Someone like Anne Applebaum who wrote a pretty interesting history of the Gulag, she is a writer. William F. Buckley who wrote some pretty serious thoughts on government is a writer. Noon is a speechwriter and a good one maybe even a great one, but she has never really impressed me very much.

[joe]

Nobody except you has any doubt about whether I think about things or argue in good faith, John.

Here's a thought: maybe I'm not the one who lets his partisan leanings get the better of him. In case you haven't noticed, there seems to be a pretty strong consensus developing about your partisan delusions about Sarah Palin.

I really don't care how interesting you think I am. I really don't care if you think I'm too pro-Democrat. You are more or less universally treated like a joke on this site, John. Your opinions is sort of like Gil Martin's or joshua corning, except they spell better.

[joe]

Oh, and btw: Mo is so much more intelligent and thoughtful than you, it's like you're different species.

That you would single him out as someone who doesn't have a lot on the ball, while defending the intellect of Sarah Palin, is pretty much all anyone needs to know about you.

[Tacos mmm...]

Oil and coal? Of course, it's a fungible commodity and they don't flag, you know, the molecules, where it's going and where it's not. But in the sense of the Congress today, they know that there are very, very hungry domestic markets that need that oil first. So, I believe that what Congress is going to do, also, is not to allow the export bans to such a degree that it's Americans that get stuck to holding the bag without the energy source that is produced here, pumped here. It's got to flow into our domestic markets first.

I have no idea what Palin is saying here, except perhaps that we should pass laws to keep all domestically produced oil within the country, which doesn't convince me that she understand energy issues any better than Joe the Plumber.

She's good at reading off a teleprompter. That's about it. She flops catastrophically when she has to improvise answers to questions instead of read them, and her grasp of issues like oil, in which she supposedly has some expertise, is demonstrably lacking.

Do you think McCain was telling the truth when he said she knew more about energy than anyone else he had ever met? The two of them were like a bad joke.

[dhex]

True but I don't consider her a serious writer.

serious thinker, no. serious writer? yes.

the two are not necessarily related.

still, she's leagues ahead of palin. palin is a stone-cold ding dong, son! she's the death of the gop, man, all sitting there winking at a bunch of people like what the living hell? it's bad enough that captain foreverwar and chocolate jesus straight up both told the tv universe that "your house you cannot afford will never lose money ever ever ever and here's a pony" but she takes the cake. and this includes biden, who last time i checked was some kind of living feeding machine for credit card companies.

also mo is smart as hell; in the words of many east coast philosophers i would suggest you check yourself before you re-re-re-re-wreck yourself.

[joe]

I love the image of a guy defending Sarah Palin's intellect and knowledge, while attacking her critics as pseudo-intellectuals, accusing me of being to partisan, insufficiently independent, and eager to defend the indefensible.

[Hogan]

joe is some boring shit

[Lester Hunt]

Radley, I wrote similar things about Palin at about the same time. At least we can prove we wrote these things before she had gotten much exposure.

[Mo]

joe and dhex, thanks for the kind words, but they're not needed. Being called dumb by John doesn't bother me.

[mantooth]

Nick Hogan! Out of jail and posting on Reason!

[Art-P.O.G.]

Nick Hogan! Out of jail and posting on Reason!

Admit it, Nick! You tried that shit on Fight Club where Tyler Durden lets go of the wheel!

[Dan]

At least one of those comments about Palin is complete BS - the claim that she doesn't know which countries are in NAFTA is flat-out wrong. I saw an interview on CSPAN before she was picked as VP, and she talked about NAFTA with a normal amount of intelligence for a Governor. And Alaska does plenty of trade with Mexico and Canada, and in fact one of the Governor's most important jobs is to help promote that trade. To that end, the Palin administration issued plenty of press statements regarding trade with both Mexico and Canada.

So if one 'fact' is complete nonsense, I'll assume the other is, too.

[cunnivore]

joe and John, the election's over. You can stop flaming now.

[Jon H]

As one Republican said to me, "If only Mitt Romney had been, say, a Presbyterian."

I'm picturing all the Republican evangelicals waking up the day after the election, seeing the Obama photos and headlines on their newspaper, and smacking their forehead - "I coulda had a Mormon!".

[Freeper]

Sarahcuda was the most intelligent of any of the four candidates! Palin/Bachmann '12!

[daveylee]

Pawlenty, if he's able to win again in MN, a staunchly blue state, in 2010, will be the best bet the GOP has going for them in 2012.

It's true that Pawlenty probably wouldn't have changed the outcome of the 2008 election. Would have been closer, but McLame would have lost anyway.

McCain picking Palin was the best thing that ever happened to Pawlenty's political career. At least he didn't get pasted with the "loser" label like Palin has. If she has ANY future in Presidential GOP politics, then the Dems will have an easy time of it in 2012, 2016, etc.

[Kevin P.]

Africa:

Sarah Palin was an honor student in her high school. Her parents insisted on good grades and her father was a high school science teacher. She is the popular and effective governor of a state. I doubt very much that someone with this background is misinformed that Africa is a country. It simply doesn't compute, sorry. This one should be filed along with her fake high school transcripts. An incredible claim like this requires an incredible level of proof. What is the proof that is offered? Anonymous accusers who won't come forward and make their incredible accusations in the light of day.

It's interesting to watch people who want to believe the worst about people that they don't like. It makes them incredibly gullible, to the extent that they will believe the most unlikely things about their opponents, without considering common sense or performing even the minutest of research. If you believe this incredible claim without asking for convincing proof, it really says more about you than about Sarah Palin.

The amount of slander that has been dumped upon this woman is sickening, and frankly, reveals the true tolerance and inclusiveness of the slanderers.

[Kevin P.]

By the way, here is CSPAN's interview of Sarah Palin in Feb 2008, well before she was considered for VP. It is only 11 minutes long. Watch the interview and her response to callers with questions and think honestly about whether this is a stupid woman.