The Libertarian Moment? Maybe? For Real, This Time?

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Nate Santucci, a Libertarian candidate for the Nevada Assembly who happens to be the "covert operations" director for Penn & Teller, has been endorsed by the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

Democrats took a pass on District 22, leaving Republican incumbent Lynn Stewart to face challenges from Libertarian Nathan Santucci and Independent American Joshua M. Starbuck. Mr. Stewart, a retired high school government teacher, has lived in Southern Nevada for about 60 years and recognizes that money alone can't fix what ails public schools. Mr. Santucci wants to maintain an attractive business climate in Nevada. He's "tired of seeing casinos taking a hit for making money" and being targeted for tax increases. We think Mr. Santucci is more inclined to shake things up in Carson City. If a minor-party candidate is ever going to break into the Legislature, we hope it's Nathan Santucci in District 22.

This comes as the Indianapolis Star gives some credibility and props to congressional candidate Eric Shansberg, an alt-weekly says nice things about (and nearly endorses) libertarian Republican B.J. Lawson for Congress, and at least two LP Senate candidates—Alan Buckley in Georgia and Chris Cole in North Carolina—are running strong enough to give Republicans a scapegoat if they lose. (Hey, it happened in 2002.) Under the radar, this is still a decent year for libertarians of the big and small "L" running for office.

UPDATE: I just re-read that 2002 "Libertarians are spoilers" piece.

Libertarians are now serving, in effect, as Democratic Party operatives. The next time they wonder why the Bush tax cuts aren't permanent, why Social Security isn't personalized and why there aren't more school-choice pilot programs for low-income kids, all they have to do is look in the mirror.

Two years later Republicans expanded their majorities in the House and Senate. How'd this agenda fare? I can't remember.

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  1. Good. Republicans need to grow a pair, and the best way to do that quickly is to lose, even though it’s likely to drive them crazy (or craziER, in some neocons’ cases) before any good comes of it. I’m tired of Republicans assuming they deserve fiscal conservatives’ votes around election time. Until they prove it, they can kiss my ass just like the Democrats can. Respect is a 2 way street.

  2. good news, but what do big L and little l mean?

    Liberty and leprosy? Are we ever going to elect a leper candidate? Will 2008 be a banner year for lepers of all walks of life?

    Am I on the right track?

  3. Well gee this is something for libertarians to shout about isnt’ it? You might possibly win a seat in the Nevada state legislature. Amazing! It’s as much of a moment as you people are ever going to get.

  4. I like noob troll better than concerned observer. C.O. just looks like he’s going through the motions, these days.

  5. Hopefully the Republican Party will self destruct come two weeks, and take those Evangelical New Right do-gooders with them, and finally open up to the 20th century.

  6. It will be another 150 year for them to embrace the 21st century I suspect. 🙂

  7. concern-ob, you need to step up your game. At least Lefiti has that hyper, bitter, hateful quality. You’re too douchey to be fun.

  8. I saw Schansberg’s book on my Amazon recommended list. I got it on a whim and was very impressed. Essentially, it’s the evangelical Christian case for libertarianism – liberty of conscience, a principled refusal to use the law to punish moral positions with which one disagrees, brutal honesty about the inevitable failures of government, and a helpful warning to Christians not to tie themselves to either conservative or liberal thinking.

    I hope Dr. Schansberg goes far in this election and in the future.

  9. yeah, CO/Edward, you’re just phoning it in at this point. We’re so desperate for entertainment in our trolls we’re thinking about replacing you with Keanu Reeves…for the EXCITEMENT!

  10. Remember when this joint used to have classy trolls like Dan T ? Well there is always joe!
    Our troll bench is lookin’ pretty thin though.

  11. yeah, somebody get Jersey McJones on the line. Or, or…M1EK!

  12. reason needs to have a reality show style face-off for the trolls. Who will be reason’s Next Top Troll?

  13. reason needs to have a reality show style face-off for the trolls. Who will be reason’s Next Top Troll?

    Never thought I’d be pining for the days of Neil.

  14. Tell me John McCain isn’t a libertarian

    “Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation.” –John McCain

    McCain–he’s the man!

  15. SIV,

    If joe’s a troll, then so are you.

    But let’s not define the term down into the basement. “Troll” used to mean something. Now it’s just a casual hollowed-out stock aspersion.

  16. concerned observer’s failings start with his handle. Too much to type, and no sense of style or humor.

  17. Tell me John McCain isn’t a libertarian

    John McCain is not a libertarian.

  18. *doo doo doo*

    It’s almost as if Lefiti showed up when we said the “T” word.

  19. Review Journal is a nice libertarian paper. Heck, Vinnie works there, Henderson used to. They even exposed the election fraud a few years ago that prevented that libertarian chick from taking office. CRS on the name but it’ll come to me by next week.

  20. Never thought I’d be pining for the days of Neil.

    I miss Neil 🙁

    But he wasn’t a troll, he was a Cesar sockpuppet performance art piece.

  21. Epi – I know! And once he was “outed” he vanished. We even tried to hit him up in the Breakaway Republic, but to no avail.

    One wonders if he isn’t really here…

  22. But he wasn’t a troll, he was a Cesar sockpuppet performance art piece.

    Any nick that fails a Turing Test is a troll.

    Any nick that passes a Turing Test is a well-disciplined troll.

  23. My problem is that I can’t use one handle and I think it’s terribly funny to post under other people’s handles.

    Can someone give me a guide to effective trolling? Like how to make quotes, strikeouts, and bold?

    This board is way better for trolling than dailykos. Those fuckers have no sense of humor.

  24. SIGH. TROLLING USED TO BE AN HONORABLE PROFESSION, WITH HIGH STANDARDS. SOCRATES! JESUS! THOMAS MORE! GANDHI! THE URKOBOLD! NOW, WE HAVE INSIPID LITTLE GIRLY MEN, THRASHING ABOUT IN A WHINY FACADE OF TROLLING. REALLY, THIS ALL STEMS FROM EMANCIPATING WOMEN.

    EDWARD’S TROLLING IS FULL OF STURM UND DRANG, MAKING UP TO SOME EXTENT FOR HIS LACK OF CONTENT. JOE, ON THE OTHER HAND, IS NOT A TROLL. HE’S MORE OF AN ERRAND BOY, SENT BY GROCERY CLERKS, TO COLLECT A VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

  25. Any nick that passes a Turing Test is a well-disciplined troll.

    How can you kill undisciplined trolls? Easy, you just lead them a little less.

  26. Dave,

    Have you been saving this one up? Libertarianism’s dead. Or haven’t you heard?

  27. With regards to the update…

    …back when I was a registered Republican, I probably would’ve agreed with that 2002 blurb. Anymore, I say that if that is their intended goal, and they aren’t able to make a convincing enough of a case to keep somebody from breaking for a third party, then they didn’t really deserve to win in the first place.

  28. Elemenope,

    The same could be said of you. I will own up to some “trolling” with my “debut” under this handle.Only I was trolling as a libertarian
    to see who thought chickens had “rights”. Unsurprisingly, I found a lot of commenters do.
    At the least I found a lot of people who think the State should restrict the rights of others when it comes to widely practiced traditional sports that offend effete ,urban sensibilities.

  29. Seriously, how can you people get so overexcited over a single seat in one state’s legislature? Not even a large state, either. It’s like you’re grasping at straws, looking for some hope that not everyone thinks you’re crazy.

  30. Can someone give me a guide to effective trolling? Like how to make quotes, strikeouts, and bold?

    HTML?

  31. ALL CAPS DOES NOT A GOOD TROLL MAKE.

  32. I am Edward. I am Lefiti. I am Gaius Marius. I am classwarrior. I am Middle Class Worker. Yea, I take many forms but the same nature oozes through all.

  33. Troll in Training,
    Isn’t it more funny when you have a sense of humor and your victims don’t?

  34. It’s almost as if Lefiti showed up when we said the “T” word.

    It isn’t “as if,” idiot. I did show up. Is flunking an IQ test a requirement for becoming a libertarian?

  35. I am Neil. I am Dondero. I am TallDave. I am Lonewacko. Yea, I take many forms, but the same nature oozes through them all!

  36. “Two years later Republicans expanded their majorities in the House and Senate. How’d this agenda fare?”

    Probably about as well as Reason’s affinity for divided government.

  37. I’m a little bitch. Kick my ass, please!

  38. Troll THIS YOU lousy RETCH stinky bottomfeeding peepants!

    I think I get it.

  39. I’ll bet you’d love to torture me, wouldn’t you? Well, go ahead. I can take anything you can dish out. I just hope you don’t those whips over there!

  40. I’ve dabbled in trolling here and there, but I’ve always kept my email address attached so I’m identifiable.

    On the subject of Dan T:
    SOCIAL CONTRACT!!!

  41. Libertarians have never been more powerful or important.

    Those omnipotent libertarians have fucked *everything* up, for both sides. The wreckage of America lies at their feet.

    Hail, hail, Freedonia!

  42. I am Edward. I am Lefiti. I am Gaius Marius. I am classwarrior. I am Middle Class Worker. Yea, I take many forms but the same nature oozes through all.

    I am Spartacus!

  43. You’ve led me to your secret libertarian base! Now I’ll bet you want to torturing me! ARGH!

  44. Hail, hail, Freedonia!

    “A land I didn’t make up…”

  45. so Lefiti admits to showing up, like “troll” is his cue.

    I wonder if I say “LOL Dhimmicrats” in the mirror three times in the bathroom if Neil will show up…

  46. I’m an asshole. Go ahead, put whatever you want in there, I can take it!

  47. HIT & RUN DEPRIVES THE URKOBOLD OF HIS MOST POWERFUL CODING WEAPON–THE BLINK TAG. THE TAINTS OF MATT WELCH AND NICK GILLESPIE ARE IN GRAVE DANGER.

  48. LOL Dhimmicrats.
    LOL Dhimmicrats.
    LOL Dhimmicrats.

    Holy Christ! Neil just appeared in my bathroom!

  49. Yea, I take many forms but the same nature oozes through all.

    We know. We know.

    It’s really sad, your whining nature.

  50. I’m batman.

  51. My people have destroyed this thread. Now we must carry of their women!

  52. I am Iron Man

  53. Right, so it appears there were no woment on this thread.

  54. Isn’t it more funny when you have a sense of humor and your victims don’t?

    No.

    This board is really like a libertartian leprosy-ridden version of 4chan. Anonymous posting rulz! provides valuable discourse and removes the possibility of being banned.

    hooray i dun lernt me summa dat html whoozits, now dinnit i?

  55. Man, trolling use to be about the wholesale disregard for facts, justifying and rationalizing sociopathic behavior, and the iron-clad belief that the internet required your badly misinformed opinion to get through the day.

    Now its all about the insults.

  56. I am the walrus…

  57. Seriously, how can you people get so overexcited over a single seat in one state’s legislature? Not even a large state, either. It’s like you’re grasping at straws, looking for some hope that not everyone thinks you’re crazy.

    There’s actually a point in here somewhere.

    See, there are libertarians. And then there’s The Libertarian Party, a sad, misbegotten little pimple on the butt of the body politic, which even some members wish had never been formed, and which is indeed grasping at any electoral straw it can find. It’s kind of pathetic, but if it ever really represented the larger number of people with libertarian beliefs it sure stopped doing so a while back.

  58. Is flunking an IQ test a requirement for becoming a libertarian?

    Psst…Lefiti…given that you cannot fail an IQ test, I’d say you’re a tragic victim of joe’s law.

  59. I Am.

  60. thank you joel

    now I know the difference between the Leprosy Party and the run-of-the-mill lepers that populate this board.

    the iron-clad belief that the internet required your badly misinformed opinion

    i can live up to that!

  61. Now we must try to find a way to hack the DailyKos! Then we can carry off their women!

  62. I see you’ve all had fun fake-posting as trolls. I guess if it brings light to your living-in-parents’-basement existence…

  63. Lefiti/Edward/Whoever isn’t gaius marius, unless gaius marius took a blow to the head, was possessed by Caligula, or something else like that.

  64. Q:who am i?

    A: ?

  65. I see you’ve all had fun fake-posting as trolls. I guess if it brings light to your living-in-parents’-basement existence…

    So very weak, dude. The “parent’s basement” insult? What is this, 1998?

  66. that was fun. this thread sucks now though.

  67. I am the walrus…

    cu cu cthulhu

  68. Hey!
    I bought the house, so it’s my basement and my Parents live upstairs!

  69. @Episiarch-ANd yet it seems to be very true with libertarians.

  70. Go ahead, blame your movements’ failure on the evil leftist trolls. Itll be fun!

  71. I guess if it brings light to your living-in-parents’-basement existence…

    I live in new 4,000 sq ft house on 1+ acre lot and drive a late model 350Z.

    Sorry to shatter your stereotype.

  72. I blame Al Gore.

  73. Are we back on the gold standard yet?

  74. HE’S MORE OF AN ERRAND BOY, SENT BY GROCERY CLERKS, TO COLLECT A VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

    That’s fall down funny, Urky.

  75. 4,000 sq ft house on 1+ acre lot

    McMansion!!!

  76. TallDave

    WTF? Tall Dave ain’t a troll.

    As far as that goes, I’m not entirely sure that Lone Wacko is a troll either. He exists, he blogs, he just wants automatic machine guns with motion detectors mounted every twenty feet along the border pointed at the Mexican hordes.

  77. Let’s all have a pity festival!

  78. Well, I’ve clearly gone upriver into the heart of darkness, so I guess that works.

    I see you’ve all had fun fake-posting as trolls. I guess if it brings light to your living-in-parents’-basement existence…

    It’s not my parents’ basement! I’ve got my own apartment down there.

    Well, it’s like my own apartment.

    I have my own door.

  79. McMansion!!!

    Size yes, cultural abomination no.

    4000 total square feet, 2500 above grade including garage, 1500 below grade in a walk-out basement that is 80% finished floor space.

    It’s Prarie-school and stands out like a sore thumb compared to the other new houses in the development.

  80. I live in new 4,000 sq ft house on 1+ acre lot…

    That’s a lot of yard for a multifamily.

  81. I thought the definition of troll was someone who generally comes on and posts things that are somehow “beyond the pale”. Like arguing that the Iraq War wasn’t a huge mistake. And arguing that the border should have automatic machine guns to cut the roving Mexican hordes.

  82. Well, I’ve clearly gone upriver into the heart of darkness, so I guess that works.

    “I’ve seen horrors…horrors that you’ve seen. But you have no right to call me a libertarian. You have a right to troll me. You have a right to do that…but you have no right to judge me”

  83. That’s a lot of yard for a multifamily.

    Even more for a couple of empty-nesters. But we have the smallest lot in the development. Most lots on my side of the street are 1 1/2 acres. The other side averages 2 acres.

    Rural setting, my back yard looks out over many acers of corn.

  84. My back yard looks out over many acres of neighborhood.

  85. The King of Trolls | October 22, 2008, 11:18am | #
    Now we must try to find a way to hack the DailyKos! Then we can carry off their women!

    There are some very hot left wing womens.

    But I think the chicks at DailyKos are of the hard to carry variety.

  86. Sometimes trolling and meta-ironic humor are indistinguishable from each other. As it should be!

  87. My back yard looks out over many acres of neighborhood.

    Well, you could always grab a gun and move out to the wilderness 😉

  88. Hey! I interviewed Schansberg awhile back. Interesting guy.

    http://www.nolanchart.com/article3991.html

  89. Elitist Prick,

    Pass.

    Enjoy the bugs, hillbilly.

    😉

  90. cu cu cthulhu

    I thought that was the sound a chicken makes

  91. Enjoy the bugs, hillbilly.

    My house sits halfway between two rivers that have sections that don’t freeze over regardless of how cold it gets. There is a pair of bald eagles that commute between the two rivers during the winter. We had one sitting on our porch railing one morning.

    Enjoy your neighbors, I’ll enjoy my winter guests.

  92. URKOBOLD F’TANG!

    If I were a troll, I’d do really classy troll things.

    For instance, dividing up our resident righties by what they’re going to be clinging to on November 5th.

    RC Dean, John: guns.

    Crimethink: religion.

    Gilbert Martin: antipathy to people who aren’t like him.

    LoneWacko: last remaining shreds of sanity, tenuously.

  93. E.P.,

    Actually, we have bald eagles in Lowell, too. They like the Merrimack.

  94. You must forgive joe. He fears bugs and most other aspects of nature involving animals. I’m not sure where he stands on plants. joe is secretly planning to implement Asimov’s Caves of Steel.

    Reinmoose,

    I thought it was the sound Phil Collins makes.

  95. I think 50% of the comments here are troll in training commenting as other commenters.

  96. Actually, we have bald eagles in Lowell, too.

    One of my wife’s friends had a barn cat that had a litter of kittens a couple of weeks before the eagles arrived. The kittens disappeared mysteriously, one by one.

  97. We have bald eagles near my place too.

  98. My 12-pound tomcat was once chased out of yard by a squirrel.

    We’ve got some pretty bad-ass squirrels in Lowell. They’ve got those really low cars with the lights on the bottom and the loud bass.

  99. Squirrels. You’re pathetic, joe. I’m collecting alligators, snakes, little lizards, and heretofore unknown species of insects to free near your house. The cold will kill them off. . .eventually. But not before they make your life a living hell.

    Do you fear the kudzu as well? I can bring some of that, too.

  100. We’re coming for you, joe. Hiding in your nooks and crannies. Living in your toilet. Watching. Waiting. Judging.

  101. Now we must try to find a way to hack the DailyKos! Then we can carry off their women!

    They are easy to carry off, just grab them by their armpit hair.

  102. For instance, dividing up our resident righties by what they’re going to be clinging to on November 5th.

    RC Dean, John: guns.

    So, joe is going with (or mocking, but I think going with) the libertarians-are-conservative trope.

    Not many righties are all in favor of drug legalization, joe.

    Come November 5, all I’ll be clinging to is my portfolio. And my job. I don’t need to cling to my guns – it kind of hard to, when you’re carrying concealed.

    I hope also to be clinging to lots of complaining that an unexpectedly large libertarian vote cost McCain some key states.

  103. Trolls are best defined as commenters that come here with the express and sole purposes of hurling insults and/or arguing in complete bad faith.

    While we all dabble in insults and bad faith, it is the lack of interest in honest debate that marks the true troll.

  104. I think sugarless nails it, which is why I think SIV, joe, and myself do not qualify for the label. Somewhat self-serving, I suppose, but whatever.

    One of the things I have become more aware of is that most sites don’t tolerate much of a sense of humor or good prankery. Reason H&R is one of the best in this regard.

  105. I’m collecting alligators, snakes, little lizards, and heretofore unknown species of insects to free near your house.

    Pfft. Their hides will make good squirrel nests.

  106. Florida snake: hsssss.

    Lowell squirrel: Oh no you di’int! Oh NO you DI’INT!!!

  107. joe | October 22, 2008, 12:02pm | #
    URKOBOLD F’TANG!

    If I were a troll, I’d do really classy troll things.

    For instance, dividing up our resident righties by what they’re going to be clinging to on November 5th.

    RC Dean, John: guns.

    Crimethink: religion.

    Gilbert Martin: antipathy to people who aren’t like him.

    LoneWacko: last remaining shreds of sanity, tenuously.

    oooh, do me, do me!!!!

  108. That’s what she said.

  109. The Angry Optimist | October 22, 2008, 10:36am | #
    yeah, CO/Edward, you’re just phoning it in at this point. We’re so desperate for entertainment in our trolls we’re thinking about replacing you with Keanu Reeves…for the EXCITEMENT!

    Time to start calling CO/Lefttit?Edward/MK2 by his real name, Jacob Weisberg. Given he is consumed with nemesis for us, the next logical step in his derangement would be to troll Reason forums.

    joe | October 22, 2008, 1:07pm | #
    That’s what she said.

    Woahhhha (I do a GREAT Ed McMahon impression)!

  110. Thanks to those wonderful hippies who have obviously taken over the Forest&Wildlife Service, we now have coyotes roaming around my land, killing the feral cat population that keeps the snake and field mouse population down.

  111. Joe,
    She said THAT before she pepper sprayed you?

    Are you sure?

  112. That was just a misunderstanding.

    I thought it was a question – “Get Off?” – and she was offering me some bug spray.

  113. hahahaha, nice!

    “get off?, no not just yet, I will in a minute if you stop with that bug spray, I seem to be having a reaction to it”

  114. Squirrels are creepy, with their disturbing little handses, but your fear of Floridian-style fauna is palpable and has been recorded here.

    Soon, pink flamingos will be cavorting on your lawn!

  115. I just put seed down!

  116. Floridian birds mock your seed. And God will smite you thricely for spilling your seed upon the ground, you sinner.

  117. That is so totally NOT what she said.

  118. Am I on the right track?

    No, that was pretty weak, but keep practicing. You’re a noob. Something like this would have worked better:

    Wow! Libertarian endorsements from the Las Vegas Review-Journal and the Indianapolis Star. What’s next, the DeMoines Register?

  119. If joe’s a troll, then so are you.

    Disagree. joe still turns into a troll on Fridays.

  120. There are troll starters, troll middle relief, and troll closers. A good earned trolling average is the difference between the professionals and the amateurs.

  121. Tell me John McCain isn’t a libertarian

    He voted for the bailout. He’s not a libertarian, QED.

    -jcr

  122. The kittens disappeared mysteriously, one by one.

    So, Eagles really are good for something besides looking good?

    -jcr

  123. Milton Friedman was a stinky-butt.

    The mothers of libertarians are not wholly unfamiliar with the physical act of love.

    Huh? Huh? That’s some trollin’ right there.

  124. joe,

    That was weak like Boston’s bullpen. And starting rotation, for that matter.

  125. Where do you get such balls, Pro Lib?

    Not from your shortstop, that’s for sure.

  126. So, Eagles really are good for something besides looking good?

    We got new neighbors about 18 months ago. We had to tell them to keep an eye on their chihuahua when winter comes. The hawks in the area are big enough to take a little dog, the eagles would have no problem at all.

  127. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Weigel missed Libertarian Party candidate Brendan Kelly, LP State Chair up in New Hampshire, who has an excellent shot of winning a State Legislative seat.

    Also, no mention of Tom McClintock for Congress from California, who is in a tight race, but slightly ahead.

    Then there’s Steve Beren in WA State for Congress, and Allan West in Florida, as well as numerous other libertarian Republicans for Congressional seats this year.

  128. The World Series is much nicer when played down in Tampa. Who wants to go to Boston?

  129. Two years later Republicans expanded their majorities in the House and Senate. How’d this agenda fare?

    Better than it would have under Democrats, except for that all-important libertarian goal of surrendering Iraq to Al Qaeda and extremist Shia militias rather than supporting a relatively liberal elected government, which I’m sure would have advanced the cause of liberty in many wonderful ways.

    If Obama wins, check back in two years and tell me Repubs wouldn’t have been better.

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