The #1 Sign That Obama is the Democratic Nominee…

… is that the rumor mill that's churned out unsubstantiated smears for every candidate on a lucky streak—Clinton '92, McCain '00 (black baby), then Bush '00 (cocaine) Kerry '04 (intern affair)—is now attacking the grandson of a goat-herder. Amusingly (to me, at least), the founts for most of the smearing are two men named Larry. The first one's Larry Sinclair, a portly gay man who recorded a grainy YouTube video alleging a wild night of drugs and sex with the candidate "between November 3 and November 9 in the Chicago, Illinois area." Which night? Eh, one of 'em.

Sinclair has produced no facts harder than his own hotel records and parts of Obama's schedule (which reveal he was in Chicago!), and he's failed a polygraph test. But the Globe ran a story on his allegation. Bill Cunningham (the Ohio radio host McCain ostracized for his anti-Obama rant at a rally) invited Sinclair on his show. Sinclair even appeared on Super xClusivo, a Puerto Rican talk show (co-hosted by a puppet), to tell islanders about that fateful, fictional night. This weekend, as Eve Fairbanks reported, Sinclair hobnobbed with Hillary supporters outside the DNC's delegate meeting. The reception was not cold.

The second smear has been burning up the internets for weeks. Larry Johnson, a former CIA operative best known for claiming Karl Rove would be indicted over the Valerie Plame mess, has tried to add meat to a long-standing rumor: that a tape exists of Michelle Obama "railing against whitey." There's always been something "off" about this rumor. In the year 2008, when videos of Jeremiah Wright sermons and Mitt Romney whoppers were uploaded to YouTube regularly, and with ease, who was still hoarding video tapes? And the rumor has been twisted and mangled as different people have spread it.

Last week, I learned of a Clinton donor who'd seen the video on an iPhone and was trying to push it onto liberal media. But iPhones display video from YouTube—where you can't find this video—or in digital format burned onto the phone. Could someone convert the video to an easily-downloable format and just decide to keep a lid on it?* Whatever! Last night, I learned that the same donor had actually seen a DVD of the "whitey" speech, and that Louis Farrakhan appeared in it. This was around the time that Johnson poured gasoline on the story by promising an "explosive" break in the story. Today's update:

I learned over the weekend why the Republicans who have seen the tape of Michelle Obama ranting about "whitey" describe it as "STUNNING." I have not seen it but I have heard from five separate sources who have spoken directly with people who have seen the tape. It features Michelle Obama and Louis Farrakhan. They are sitting on a panel at Jeremiah Wright's Church when Michelle makes her intemperate remarks. Whoops!!

Philadelphia blogger Booman has a theory, based on yet more heresay:

From what I understand, it is a tape of Michelle Obama criticizing the Bush administration.

How you'd write it:

Why did Bush cut folks off medicaid?
Why did Bush let New Orleans drown?
Why did Bush do nothing about Jena?
Why did Bush put us in Iraq for no reason?

How you'd say it:

Why'd he cut folks off medicaid?
Why'd he let New Orleans drown?
Why'd he do nothing about Jena?
Why'd he put us in Iraq for no reason?

How Larry Johnson wants you to hear it:

Whitie cut folks off medicaid?
Whitie let New Orleans drown?
Whitie do nothing about Jena?
Whitie put us in Iraq for no reason?

But this is, if anything, even weirder. Katrina came in August 2005, when Obama was a U.S. senator and the couple's notoriety in Chicago was at its height. The Jena controversy raged in 2007, when Obama was running for president. (It also occurred after Farrakhan started to retreat from public life.) If anyone wants to compare Louis Farrakhan's travel records to dates the Obamas appeared at Trinity, go ahead (the last Farrakhan appearance at Trinity was 11/2/07, when the Obamas were presumably busy trying to win the Iowa caucus), but it beggars belief that he could join a panel with Obama's wife as late as 2005 and no one would hear about it. (An alternate version of this theory has Michelle Obama only referring to "Katrina" and explicitly hating on "whitey.")

What to make from this? The Sinclair thing is pure kookery, but the "whitey tape" thing is a revealing example of how narratives swallow up candidates. The idea that Michelle Obama could "rail against whitey" would have been racist bilge a year or so ago. But since then we've heard her say that her husband's political success made her "proud of her country for the first time" in her adult life. We've seen her senior thesis about racial identity. We've learned about her church. Based on that, Obama has been transformed from a glamorous potential first lady into a female Louis Farrakhan. If she turns out to have given an on-camera bigoted rant? Shame on her. If Clinton supporters are trying to keep their hopes alive by spreading rumors about their opponent's wife?

*Edited this to make it clear why the iPhone story doesn't make sense to me.

Comments

[John]

Now that everyone is talking about it, if it is not all over the web within 24 hours, it most assuredly does not exist.

[brotherben]

John, I agree but we americans seem to love our conspiracies. There has been enough questionable real stuff about the Obamas that to a certain part of the population even the batshit crazy stuff is believable. Common sense has no place in politics.

[Fluffy]

Would it be "bad" of me to point out that I could probably produce a tape of Farrakhan sharing a stage with any thin, middle-aged black woman with medium length hair, claim the woman was Michelle Obama, and trick most older white Republicans with it if the video was at a YouTube level of quality?

I doubt most older "major Republican donors" could pick Michelle Obama out of a lineup. "They all look alike", remember? I could put CONDI in the video, tell them it was Michelle Obama, and trick at least some of them.

[ChrisO]

I so want the "whitey tape" to exist. Not because I hate Michelle Obama, but just for the pure spectacle value. This election season just keeps giving and giving.

[brotherben]

fluffy, if condi was in vinyl and crackin a cat-o-nine tails...

[joe]

Since when has the Clinton campaign sat on stuff?

[John C. Randolph]

David,

You said: "But iPhones can only display video on YouTube, and the video's not on YouTube. "

Which is flat-out wrong. You can load video onto an iPod using iTunes, and I do so all the time. The iPhone, like the video iPod, can play H.264 standard video.

-jcr

[Bingo]

Super xClusivo

This is the best name for a talk show in the world... AND its hosted by a puppet?? Oh my god, Red Eye better watch it's back!

[Elemenope]

Since when has the Clinton campaign sat on stuff?

You mean other than their hands?

[brotherben]

joe,

ok I'll play along. The Hillary camp is purposely pushing back the release date of said video. They feel that by waiting till the last moment, She will be seen as a saviour for the party and the country. If it were'nt for The Hillary. we may have ended up with a disaster in the white house. Makes sense right?

[Bob]

If someone in the GOP were behind this, it would not be happening now. The Republicans would keep this under wraps until after Obama was officially the nominee.

I personally do not believe this tape exists, but the whispering campaign about it can have only one purpose: to make Democratic superdelegates fearful of nominating Obama. That means the rumors are coming from Obama's enemies on Alpha Centauri, or -- perhaps less likely -- from the Clinton campaign.

[ed]

Let the transformation of Michelle Obama into Jackie Kennedy commence.

[joe]

brotherben,

It's a good enough explanation of WHY she was doing this, if you take that fact that she was doing this as a given.

But assuming they had such a tape, it doesn't make any sense that the campaign would wait until Hillary lost the election and THEN bring it out to overturn it. They'd have used it to win the election.

[John]

If the tape doesn't exist, I would say whoever is behind the rumor is pretty stupid. Why would you start a rumor that you know is untrue? Eventually people are going to realize it isn't true and Obamas are going to look like sympathetic victims of a smear. If I were Hillary, the last thing I would be doing is starting rumors that I couldn't back up. It is difficult to believe that the Hillary campaign isn't smart enough to realize this. If it is not true, I doubt it is coming from them.

[John]

Maybe Obama started or at least spread the rumor. It does a number of things that help him, assuming it is not true. It makes Hillary look like a mean spirited shrew if you can blame her for starting it. It makes his wife look sympathetic becuase she is being unfairly smeared. Lastly, it takes the media's attention off of the weekend decision to only count half the votes from Michigan and Florida.

[brotherben]

joe, it would depend on whether or not a person thinks Obama could talk his way out of such a problem, given enough time. The man is very smooth and so many folks just wanna love him.

[joe]

It's a mistake to look at everything that happens in an political campaign and assume that the people behind it are brilliant masterminds, high in the parties or campaigns, who are in lockstep with the national strategy.

This could be some 19 year old College Republican who thinks that keeping a rumor alive, without any backing, is his big break.

[Neel]

Hey Brotherben, is there a video of Condi in vinyl and cat-o'-9-tails? I would so love to see that...(and I am not even an "older major Republican donor").
It would be super 'xclusivo'; puppet or no puppet.

[John]

Joe,

I think Ben is right. If Hillary Clinton has such a tape, it would be in her interest to wait until the last possible moment to release it. First, you don't want to win that way unless you have to. So, you would want to wait and see if anything else panned out before you released it. Second, stuff like this has a pretty short shelf life. If you release it too early, he might be able to recover. You would want to release it close enough to the convention that he can't recover but still in time to destroy his candidacy. I am not really sure when that would be, but I doubt the ideal time would be much before now. I totally beleive that Hillary would sit on it if she had it. Now that the rumor is out there, she has to release it if she has it.

[brotherben]

neel, just one that I know of.

and I looked fat in it, so no copies are available.

~~trundles off for another donut

[joe]

John, brotherben,

Imagein it's early April, and you're Mark Penn. A tape of Michelle Obama falls into your greasy mitts, railing against "Whitey" while Louse Farrakhan stands behind her.

Do you tell your boss:

A) Yes! We totally need to put this out there! Burn 100 copies, we are going to own the news for the next week, or

B) Let's keep this in our back pocket until Barack Obama locks up enough delegates, and then bring it out.

[Elemenope]

This could be some 19 year old College Republican who thinks that keeping a rumor alive, without any backing, is his big break.

Hey, I know that guy. He's a douche.

Come to think of it, wasn't dear ol' Hillary a College Republican?

[brotherben]

lmnop, yes she was but she aint even 19 in dog years.

[krandl]

Mrs. Obama is not only a fair target, but she's a perfect portal view into the retrograde racialist views of Barack Obama. Even though Obama appears to be God's son on earth (Sorry, Nas!), Obama is actually a professional politician AKA a practiced liar.

Michelle Obama really HASN'T been proud of her country.

Michelle Obama really DOES believe that the unfathomably liberal Ivy League is a bastion of racism. (It's in America, ain't it?)

It's reasonable to infer that Barack's beliefs are similar to those of the woman he shares his bed with. Ironically, since Barack is a good politicians, he knows that you can't tell racists (e.g. Americans)that they're racist to their face. That'll make 'em defensive.

But Michelle Obama is not a professional politician. She accidentally tells the truth about her ridiculous beliefs some times. (E.g., "As a Black Man in America, Barack could get shot at a gas station.")

So maybe Larry Johnson has the quote wrong.

I'm sorry, if Michelle Obama thinks that THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT should get involved to help the perpetrators(!)in a schoolyard fight where a few black kids tried to stomp a white kid to death (remember, Jena was Black-on-White violence), than she has NO RIGHT to complain about demagoguery.

Michelle Obama is a race hustler. She's been given a lot of stuff because her skin is the right color. And her response is to hate on America.

Fuck her.

[joe]

I love how the people who devote themselves to telling us who The Real Racists are just can't help but let the mask slip.

Nas? What, exactly, does a shoutout to a rapper have to do with that screed? And, of course Michelle Obama has been "given a lot of stuff," and hasn't earned it on her own. You can tell, because she's black and successful, and that can only mean one thing.

You don't even have to goad them, I've noticed. They just come out with this stuff on their own.

[brotherben]

krandl,
I can't personally infer Barrack Obama's beliefs are similar to his wife's. My wife and I have some differences of opinion so vast that we don't discuss certain subjects.

[John]

Good point Joe, but what if they got it in May? As shocking as this sounds Joe, maybe they don't want to release it. What if it does come out and has the desired effect and gets Hillary the nomination, what do you think the black turnout this fall will be? I don't think the decision is as obvious as it seems. Even for the Clintons, releasing that tape and getting tagged for releasing it, is a pretty big deal. I don't know if the tape exists or not, but if it did and the Clintons had it, it is not obvious to me that they would immediately rush to the media with it.

[Samedi]

I am jealous of Michelle Obama; for she has been proud of her country at least one more time then I.

[thoreau]

John-

If the Clintons had a tape and wanted it released, they wouldn't have to release it themselves. They give it to somebody who gives it to somebody who uses a lot of safeguards while uploading it to some site, and then he posts links to it in the comments section of a prominent blog.

And then the whole thing takes on a life of its own, while the Clinton camp issues a carefully worded press release urging "restraint" in the reaction to "this troubling video."

[T]

It's a mistake to look at everything that happens in an political campaign and assume that the people behind it are brilliant masterminds, high in the parties or campaigns, who are in lockstep with the national strategy.

I believe the general version of that is "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

The current political season makes me wonder what I'm supposed to infer about those who are both malicious and stupid. Malice + stupid would certainly explain the Michelle Obama rumors.

[Click \'n\' Learn]

Here's a vid from the BHO campaign itself. She can't even act chipper for a setup; try and imagine how any other possible FL would act in that same situation. It's not difficult at all to imagine her flying off into a rant, so I'd say there's a good chance that there's something showing her saying something even dumber than she's already said.

But, for those who want a more high-minded way to reduce their chances, go to one of BHO's appearances and ask him about this or this, then upload his response to Youtube.

[Abdul]

Okay, you convinced me that the gay sex and whitey rumors are false, but what's all this I hear about Obama having a black baby?

[joe]

As shocking as this sounds Joe, maybe they don't want to release it. What if it does come out and has the desired effect and gets Hillary the nomination, what do you think the black turnout this fall will be?

Uh, have you been watching this campaign for the past four months, John? "It's not worth winning the nomination if we alienate black people" isn't exactly the new "It's the economy, stupid."

[Hog]

Compared to the serial adulterer or the thieving drug-addict, Michelle Obama - merely obnoxious - isn't looking that bad as First Spouse. I don't know much about Barr's wife, but if he is elected maybe he'll bring along some of those strippers covered in whipped cream he hangs out with.

[First Little Pig]

It's obvious. If Hillary used the tape to destroy Obama, she would lose to McCain. However, if Obama is the nominee and the tape is either already in the republicans' hands or could be given to them, then McCain can use it to beat Obama giving Hillary a shot in 4 years when McCain is 100 years old.

The McCain crew can't release the video now bcse then they would face Hillary and probably lose to her. Their best bet is wait for Obama to be the nominee.

[JB]

Here's another bombshell! Farrakhan had a telephone conversation with Colin Powell in 1995 before the Million Man March.

[Ryo]

I've been proud of America precisely once as well. It was when I learned of Jimmy Dean's Chocolate Pancake & Sausage on a Stick.

It proved to me that when push comes to shove. When everyone else says it's too much. When others fear something may be in poor taste or too harmful or too whatever. America will step up and respond. And we'll put that shit on a stick.

May God bless America!

[joe]

Whatever you think of Michelle Obama, this "she isn't grateful enough for all the things white people have given her" line is really obnoxious.

[JB]

BREAKING NEWS ON TRINITY CHURCH MEETING:

Also sharing the stage with Michelle Obama and Farrakhan were the following:

Sayyed Nasrallah (of Hezbollah), Nelson Mandela, Patricia Hagee (Rev's distant cousin) and Joseph McCarthy III (via sat link from his office).

[Slugger]

You Obama apologists sicken me. I know for a fact that he has fathered a black baby!!!

[Art-P.O.G.]

And someone close to the Obama campaign* kidnapped me and put a microchip in my brain. And now a CIA satellite beams crazy delusions into my mind.

*Chupacabra

[joe]

Psst.

Michelle Obama has a mixed-race husband.

You didn't hear it from me!

[brotherben]

joe,
that's hard to believe considering how racist she is sposed to be.

[Mo]

If the tape doesn't exist, I would say whoever is behind the rumor is pretty stupid. Why would you start a rumor that you know is untrue?

The same thing you gain from a falsehood like the McCain black baby. Enough doubt to win an election.

Also, isn't there a $1 million reward for the tape? If it exists then it would be out in a heartbeat.

[T]

And now a CIA satellite beams crazy delusions into my mind.

No, that satellite is owned by Comcast and they beam that shit straight into your TV, too.

[prolefeed]

Since when has the Clinton campaign sat on stuff?

Since when has a politician held back on material of dubious credibility but of an inflammatory nature until just before the actual voting, thus preventing the smear victim from rebutting the allegation due to a lack of time?

Oh, besides many if not most political races at every level of politics at every election?

A grainy video released just before the votes were cast at the Democratic convention would be consistent with the revealed character of Clinton to date.

[thoreau]

A grainy video released just before the votes were cast at the Democratic convention would be consistent with the revealed character of Clinton to date.

I hope it's an alien autopsy video.

[joe]

until just before the actual voting

OK, we'll wait until everybody but Montana and South Dakota votes, and then BLAM! Teh Victory!

It doesn't make any sense.

A grainy video released just before the votes were cast at the Democratic convention would be consistent with the revealed character of Clinton to date.

Uh, no, the revealed Clinton character to date would indicate that they would release the video sometime during the actual election, in order to win the voting.

[joe]

It's not a question, prolefeed, of the Clintons being too kind to do something underhanded.

It just doesn't make any sense from a strategic point of view.

If they were going to pull something like that, they wouldn't leak the story and allow Obama to get ahead of it, either.

[George Maschke]

While Larry Sinclair's story is far-fetched and unsubstantiated, his failed polygraph is no evidence one way or the other. Polygraphy is pseudoscience of the worst sort, and Larry Sinclair's polygraph experience raises more questions than it answers.

[libarbarian]

If they were going to pull something like that, they wouldn't leak the story and allow Obama to get ahead of it, either.

Exactly.

The notion that they are waiting for this is directly incompatible with the amount of discussion about it.

I suppose it could be true, but now I'd bet 20:1 against it.

[joe]

If this was any other candidate other than Hillary Clinton, nobody would waste a neuron on this conspiracy theory.

But because it's teh Hildebeast, it's just a matter of figuring out HOW the horrific, theoretical act fits into her devious plot, not WHETHER.

It's like the Kennedy assassination people. Every bit of evidence proves the theory, and it's a matter of figuring out how.

[dhex]

naw, joe, if the bushes were involved in any way there would be many a wasted neuron.

Why would you start a rumor that you know is untrue?

because obmama is a crypto-muslim has legs for some people; meaning anything is possible.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I hope it's an alien autopsy video.

HILLARY: How does this help us win delegates?
AIDE:[timidly] Well...
HILLARY: You're fired.
BILL: Aw, honey, but he got us pictures of a creature from beyond the stars.

[joe]

Awesome, Art!

Can't you hear that crackly Bubba voice, "I WANT to believe, Hillary. I WANT to believe."

[Art-P.O.G.]

Hell, yeah, joe!

[Paul]

HA! As a long time follower of papatard (so named because he's father to the larrytards), I'm happy to see that his latest mantra of "MAKE SOME NOISE" is paying off so handsomely for him. As the larrytard have been saying pretty much since this bullshit story came out on YouTube, "THIS THING IS GOING TO BREAK ANY DAY NOW". Sadly, they can't see that the story is broken from the start. Not turn this into a long comment, but papatard -
1) is suing people that call him a liar
2) publishes names and addresses of people who call him a liar
3) believes that Howard Dean and I are such good friends that I called him to warn him about papatard's DC adventure
4) threatened to kill the lawyer defending the bloggers

It goes on and on.

Pretty much everything he's said (and not proved) has been debunked.

Duh! *laffin*

PS - be prepared to hear from the larrytards.

[Barry O: Rock Smoker?]

I think you're a little too quick to dismiss Larry Sinclair's allegations, and are clearly pretty biased against him.

What he is saying may in fact be true, and while he comes across as a bit nutty I find him to be surpringly credible when interviewed.

Either way, it's just a question of time before this story gets aired out...and imo the sooner the better if there's any truth to it.

Btw, while he is portly now, he was not back in 1999 when he alleges the activities occured.

http://larrysinclair0926.wordpress.com/

[John Freeman]

No, people rightly dismiss Lawrence Wayne Sinclair's allegations because he is a delusional liar.

A bad one, at that.

For a while he actually thought I was related to David Axelrod (and one time, apparently he thought I was his son).

The guy's a kook.

His followers are insane. Just read their comments to get a taste of what kind of mentality his followers have.

[Paul]

See?

[Barry O: Pole Smoke?]

I read the blog a bit. Most of it reads like a lonely hearts club, of people with nothing better to do and not a whole lot useful to say.
But I find what Sinclair has to say about his experience with Obama in 11/99 to be believable.

[GILMORE]

Barry O: Rock Smoker? | June 2, 2008, 6:28pm | #

I think you're a little too quick to dismiss Larry Sinclair's allegations, and are clearly pretty biased against him.

Indeed. There is a clear anti-crazy-asshole bias here, and I think you all owe this guy an apology

[finneganswig]

sinclair didn't exactly "fail" his polygraph examination. If you pod people are actually putting stock in polygraphs, put stock in both methods of scoring. In fact, Sinclair passed the computer-scored test on the question of doing drugs with Obama.
He also gave exact dates, not "eh, one of'em".
You ass holes are so sure his story is bullshit, you have to lie about the details and use selective bits of information. Truth is you don't know anything about Obama, or what he was into in '99.
'Nite lemmings.

[GILMORE]

Barry O: Pole Smoke? | June 2, 2008, 6:52pm | #

I read the blog a bit. Most of it reads like a lonely hearts club, of people with nothing better to do and not a whole lot useful to say.
But I find what Sinclair has to say about his experience with Obama in 11/99 to be believable.

I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

No one is more convincing than people who make their handle some silly ad hominem polemical statement. See: Lonewacko

[GILMORE]

finneganswig | June 2, 2008, 7:40pm | #

sinclair didn't exactly "fail" his polygraph examination. If you pod people are actually putting stock in polygraphs, put stock in both methods of scoring. In fact, Sinclair passed the computer-scored test on the question of doing drugs with Obama.
He also gave exact dates, not "eh, one of'em".
You ass holes are so sure his story is bullshit, you have to lie about the details and use selective bits of information. Truth is you don't know anything about Obama, or what he was into in '99.
'Nite lemmings.

....

....

sigh.

is there a "drink" rule for just, "generic angry tools"?

[GILMORE]

Abdul | June 2, 2008, 12:30pm | #

Okay, you convinced me that the gay sex and whitey rumors are false, but what's all this I hear about Obama having a black baby?

Awwww thit. Abdul wins the thread.

I am perpetually proud of America.

[finneganswig]

Nice answer gilmore. Nothing really to say, huh? Typical.

[Marille]

If somebody had told the voters in 1959 that their Democratic nominee was sleeping with Marilyn Monroe, who would have believed it? We wanted to believe "Camelot."

Why is it so far-fetched that Mr. Sinclair's allegations just might be true? Because we don't want them to be?

[Paul]

Yeah - it's pretty much going to go like this until papatard sues to get your blog shut down. *laffin*

[GILMORE]

Answer?

What was your question? were you looking to have an informed discussion? I thought you were just expressing random contempt for "pod people ass hole (?) lemmings" or something.

OK, here's one = Obama is *not* a homosexual cracksmoker, because there is no evidence of it.

I know, i know, you already shut that one down with the stunning argumentum ad ignorantiam

[GILMORE]

Marille | June 2, 2008, 7:51pm | #

Why is it so far-fetched that Mr. Sinclair's allegations just might be true? Because we don't want them to be?

Also, the Nazis were all homosexuals =

http://www.abidingtruth.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm

"Because Evidence and Plausibility Is For America-Haters"

[TruthSeeker]

I think many people are in denial about Larry Sinclair's allegations, and are hoping that he/they will just magically go away.

They will not I'm afraid.

Might there be a reason why Obama and his Campaign have been so vague about his past drug use?

No, definitely not. Anyone who questions the Great Leader is either lying, or crazy, or both.

[finneganswig]

Your answer to anything I said, contradict something, since you felt the need to pointlessly respond with your little 'sigh' - such a compelling retort.
I haven't said Obama is a crack smoking homosexual. And I've made no argument to such. (Re-read my post, a little slower maybe). I don't know if he is or isn't. Neither do you.

[Obaman]

What's the big deal if Obama did coke, and engaged in some discreet sexual encouters with men?

These things are old news in Chicago, as is the one about his Senate aide.

He was never busted with cocaine or "in the act"... a la Larry Criag...as far as I know. So what are you Obama haters going to do about ?

[Sparky]

"Anyone who questions the Great Leader is either lying, or crazy, or both."

It would be just a wee bit more accurate to say that anyone who trumpets incredibly sensationalistic and completely unsubstantiated rumors is either lying, dumber than dog shit, or both. You'd be able to find a lot more Truth if you took your head out of your ass, TruthSeeker.

And finneganswig, when your first post involves calling other posters "pod people," "ass holes," and "lemmings," you're not going to fool anyone with half a brain into thinking you're actually looking for reasoned discussion. GILMORE was far too generous and restrained when he called you a generic angry tool. Why don't you and TruthSeeker go jerk off to your Larry Sinclair pics and leave the rest of us, who are actually capable of critically evaluating information during an election, to do that. Good dog.

[Paul]

finneganswig - and I have never, ever said that you have sex with dead puppies. Not once. To say that I did would be incorrect. I don't know if you did, so I could not and, more importantly, would not state that as a fact.

[Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L]

GILMORE:is there a "drink" rule for just, "generic angry tools"?

There is now! DRINK!

[TruthSeeker]

Seems like we may have touched a nerve with ol' Sparky.

I think you've demonstrated your ability for being critical, what I question is the inclination to evaluate objectively and truthfully. It seems you come to this discussion with a predispoition, which in turn leads you to discredit, diminish and dismiss any possibile contradiction of your conculsion.

Granted Larry Sinclair is more than a little offbeat, but what sort of person would you expect to hook up with a stranger and engage in the behavior he alleges.

Deny, attack, distract...it works for a while, but not usually forever.

I'm going to go pull my head out of my ass and see if I can find the other half of my dog shit brain? Now that's what I call intelligent discourse.

[Paul]

Truthseeker - that's fifth grade schoolyard tactics. The fact is that the burden of proof is on papatard. I'm not sure when you got the OK to re-write those rules. If so, please post the PDF so we can all look at it

[Sparky]

"It seems you come to this discussion with a predispoition, which in turn leads you to discredit, diminish and dismiss any possibile contradiction of your conculsion."

No, I come to this discussion with a healthy skepticism toward sensationalistic, unsubstantiated allegations leveled at a presidential candidate during an election year. In other words, I come to this discussion with a functioning brain.

"Granted Larry Sinclair is more than a little offbeat, but what sort of person would you expect to hook up with a stranger and engage in the behavior he alleges."

Statements like this would be great comedy if it weren't for the fact that so many eligible voters actually accept this tortured logic.

And Truthy, when you start off by accusing everyone with the minimal intelligence required to see through this crap of being in the thrall of the "Great Leader" and his personality cult, lying, and/or crazy, you're obviously no more capable of "intelligent discourse" than finneganswig, and you're obviously lying when you pretend that's what you're here for. You might as well just keep your head in your ass - I'm sure you're more comfortable there.

[CRACKSMOKING BOY WHORE]

what I question is the inclination to evaluate objectively and truthfully. It seems you come to this discussion with a predispoition, which in turn leads you to discredit, diminish and dismiss any possibile contradiction of your conculsion.

Yeh, what that guy said!! I also sucked that black one's cock while he mainlined speedballs and said things like, "Take it whitey! Yeah bitch!".

It just never occurred to me to mention it until, like now.

Do I get my check now mr clinton?

[TruthSeeker]

Paul- what in particular are you referring to as my 11 year old level tactics?

Unlike others on this board I don't automatically assume things to be untrue just because they are unpleasant or inconvenient..

Frankly, I hope both of these Larry stories are shown to be untrue, but I've been around long enough to have learned to not always assume the best.

And, for the record, the burden of proof in the battle of perceptions and public opinion is not always on the accuser.

Attacking the questioner is often seen as being "defensive", which some then take to mean soemthing is being hidden. If there's nothing to this stuff why all the vitriol for anyone who wants to know the objective facts?

Btw, by "Papatard" do you mean Sinclair?

[OSAMA IS A MUSLIM COKEHEAD PED]

We must all keep an open mind about these unfounded allegations

[TruthSeeker]

Me thinks though doth attack too much.

I'm glad though that you have determined these stories to be unfounded. Ok folks, move along. Nothing to see here.

Do you think anyone in GOP oppo research might look into this a "wee bit" deeper than all of you?

[Sparky]

"I don't automatically assume things to be untrue just because they are unpleasant or inconvenient.."

...or completely unsubstantiated or sensationalistic or clearly politically beneficial to other candidates....

What TruthSeeker is trying so hard to pretend not to understand is that the fact that intelligent people are highly skeptical of these claims has nothing to do with whether they support Obama. It has to do with the fact that there's absolutely no support for these claims, and there are obvious motivations for certain people to make them up. It doesn't matter who the candidate is, only an idiot or a shameless partisan hack trumpets stuff like this with no evidence for it.

[Sparky]

"I'm glad though that you have determined these stories to be unfounded."

Oh, you're just too precious, TruthSeeker. Don't ever change. Unintentional comic relief is always welcome around here.

[Barry O: Rock Smoker?]

no way obama would ever hang around with someone for 20 years who was such a racist wingnut. he wouldn't use the guy's sermon for a the title of his book.
no way you retarded dogfucking dumbass. why don't you get a life and quit believeing all those idiots asstard dipshits.

[Sparky]

I guess you pretty much called it at 6:00 and 7:53, Paul.

[Obaman]

I still don't get what the big deal is. He's admitted he did cocaine. So what. Is it that he was a state senator at the time of these accusations that's supposed to make it a big issue?

[LARRY CRAIG]

TruthSeeker | June 2, 2008, 9:04pm | #

Do you think anyone in GOP oppo research might look into this a "wee bit" deeper than all of you?

Yes. I will chair the committee. You and Foley can take pictures. A reenactment must be attempted.

[Limo Driver from South Asia]

I saw Larry Sinclair blow Barack Obama while Obama was hitting the crack pipe.

[Rational Analyst]

Barry O: Rock Smoker? | June 2, 2008, 9:08pm | #

no way obama would ever hang around with someone for 20 years who was such a racist wingnut. he wouldn't use the guy's sermon for a the title of his book.
no way you retarded dogfucking dumbass. why don't you get a life and quit believeing all those idiots asstard dipshits.

You should get an editorial column. Really, you're wasting yourself on these philistines.

[Paul]

Truthseeker - the game works this way

1) You make some kind of bullshit claim that has not been backed up
2) Someone calls you on it
3) You say that you must have "hit a nerve" for them to call you on your bullshit.
4) You then continue to bait them, pissing them off.
5) Rather than admit there is no factual basis to the bullshit (which is why it's bullshit) you spend the rest of your time (until you're banned) using their annoyance as "proof" that something is really going on.

That's all papatard (yes, larry, the father of the larrytards) has done. And what you're doing now.

[Paul]

Sparky, I've spend almost six months dealing with these assholes, as have a bunch of others.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention - we get paid $217.83 per line. Axelrod pays us personally in cash in non-sequential bills.

Thank god Reason picked up this story because my Jaguar just hit 10,000 miles and I need a new one.

[brotherben]

No self respecting journalist would drive a ford just because it ha a chrome cat on the hood.

[Kolohe]

My god.

Sinclairians make troofers look like Richard Feynman.

[Kolohe]

Or is this Cesar McKinley again?

Good job, if it is.

[Kolohe]

You know what I find amusing about Sinclair?

In the video I saw (don't know how many there are) he says something like, "so I started to have cocaine, and Obama started to have some crack."

Obama is a prep school harvard educated "elitist." So I would think he would be having the cocaine and Sinclair's poor gigilo ass would have to settle for crack.

[Jack]

I'm a little surprised at the number of McCain supporters who want to casually fling around accusations of homosexual behavior given that he spent 5-1/2 years in prison....

[Chris Potter]

I heard that there's a video of Bob Barr out there that shows him consuming milk from the breast of a married Kazakh woman in his office, and he comments that it was "nice".

I suspect the feckless Ruwart campaign is behind this...

[Paul]

In the video I saw (don't know how many there are) he says something like, "so I started to have cocaine, and Obama started to have some crack."

Even funnier is that he claims that he dealt drugs such as "powdered cocaine".

Actually, at one time papatard claimed that Obama was a drug dealer because (waaait for it) papatard, who wanted "a little wake up" gave Obama the money to buy the drugs. To most of us, this would be called a favor. For papatard, it's a drug deal. This was never part of the original plot line he laid out but merely an afterthought to buck up the larrytards who had become bored.

[Paul]

Oh. And Reason (http://www.reason.com/blog/show/126784.htm) has an article deriding this whole bullshit story

[Voltair]

So what's the motive of this Sinclair guy? Is he in it for the money? Reality TV?

[BountyHunter]

I've been reading about Sinclair. I don't know that the conclusion in the piece above that he "failed" a polygraph is a clear cut thing.

Not only are polygraphs notoriously unreliable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1uMEXiv1ng

See Ted Haggard's victim/accuser who "failed" his polygraph...I'm glad that wan't the end of that investigation/story.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4597552

I'm sure I will now be trashed for challenging the local party line.

[Paul]

If you're basing your conclusion off of a failed polygraph then you're saying that he took a meaningless test and got meaningless results.

The fact is that he's presented no evidence except a points statement requested retroactively from the hotel he stayed at during the time he said he was there. On that statement, the dates are out of order.

My dad was in Dallas the day Kennedy got shot, so I guess that means my dad killed Kennedy.

I'm really disappointed in my dad.

[Paul]

Voltair - who the hell knows why he's doing this? He may be so far gone that he truly believes it. I doubt it, though.

I think he wants to parley his notoriety into a contract with No Excuse jeans.

[TruthSeeker]

I'm back Tards!

What'd I miss?

[Voltair]

Voltair - who the hell knows why he's doing this? He may be so far gone that he truly believes it. I doubt it, though.

I think he wants to parley his notoriety into a contract with No Excuse jeans.

==========================
Jeans deal! LOL

But seriously. Why would someone do this? Just looking for attention? It doesn't seem like he really stands to make $'s from this.

[Paul]

My theory is that as a three-time loser with a history of fraud, he's reaching for the brass ring of money and validation. He should have gotten paid $100,000 from the lie detector test if he passed. He struck a deal for a flat $20,000. He tried to give some to the Boys and Girls club and another charity but when they found out it came from blowjob money, they gave it back. Rather than understand, he accused the Obama campaign of pressuring them into it.

I really wish I could say I was making this up.

[Scroll Up]

Oh. And Reason (http://www.reason.com/blog/show/126784.htm) has an article deriding this whole bullshit story

Um, dude, that's post that started this thread.

[BountyHunter]

Paul-
Polygraphs are psuedo science aynway, but Sinclair was willing to take them...twice. Was he telling the truth? Maybe. The computers said yes. The polygraphers said "signs of deception".
so I dont know how you can point to the fact that he "failed" his lie detector test as the reason to dismiss his claims.
-BH

[Paul]

Um...yeah...I figured that out. Posted that in the wrong place. I'd deleted it if I could. Any moderators in the house?

[Dismiss this claim]

I banged Anne Hathaway this weekend.

*buzz*

Ok, maybe not. But only because I was busy with your mom.

*beep*

[papasmruf]

Hmmm ...

I will try to be as objective as possible here.

I say put up or shut up. While this could be a last minute ploy to create doubt among superdelegates, all I ask is -- why wait until now? If Clinton or her proxies has this tape, this thing should have dropped way sooner. Perhaps it just got into her possession?

As many have already noted, it doesn?t make any sense for the GOP to let this thing drop right now. If the tape does exist, they would want to wait until later on, wouldn?t they? Nor does it make any sense for them to not be tight lipped about it. Republicans, traditionally, know how to keep their mouth shuts (McClellan aside). From a purely political standpoint, the Republicans are far more organized and operate more in sync with each other, compared to the more individualistic democrats. Now, perhaps Clinton acquired it, and plans on releasing this tape into the world, so that that Dems will view her as a savior. Perhaps.

My personal thoughts. The tape is bullshit unless there is proof. I think this is last-ditch effort to create doubt, and slime Obama.

Also, this Sinclair is a hack; I can tell just by looking at him. What is in it for him? He seems like an attention deprived individual. I say follow the money? Where does he get the time and money to file a suit against Obama? What does this man do for a living? If it were a person with a real job, in a real profession, or doing something meaningful with his life -- then I could maybe believe him more. This guy looks like he has nothing to do, and he looks like out there, if you know what I mean. Not legitimate. He seems to be a guy with a lot of time on his hands, enough to sit around and post videos of himself talking about how he sucked Obama?s cock. Either somebody is paying him or he just literally does not have a life. If this guy were in government or was a lawyer or something legit to where he had something to lose, then I might believe it (See: McClealan) But this guy seems to be the same type of guy that is littered in the gossip rags, claiming they saw a UFO, and that the UFO injected something into their ass. Does anybody have any background info on this guy? I cannot find anything via Google, other than the current (fake)controversy.

As for this other guy with the tape ...

The whole thing screams bullshit. Is anybody old enough to remember 1992 when Clinton was slimed with false tapes? If the scenario where the tape is true and it is released, now is the not the time. This will be a forgotten item come November. However, I think it could be a rumor instigated by a Clinton Proxy to circulate doubt among the Dems? If the tape exists, the same thing applies. However, if this is so damaging -- why in the hell wasn?t it released earlier? The person with the tape had to know that it was worth money, and I can guarantee the Clinton?s or Obama?s allies would have paid top dollar. The GOP would have paid top dollar as well, but there is no way in hell they would release it now, and I seriously doubt the inner circle that supposedly have it would break ranks. Just doesn?t add up.

Unless the tape is produced, the story is bullshit. Follow the money, what does the guy talking about this crap gain: Does he make money off all the traffic he is getting promoting this? Also, there seems to be a conflict of interest as he does seem to be a Clinton Partisan.

An interesting theory that one commenter noted was about Obama?s campaign circulating this to make Clinton?s side seem even more silly. While I don?t think this is the case, this seems like the sanest and most logical explanation, from a purely objective, political, and strategic standpoint. Of course, even then, it?? reaching.

[Paul]

BH - I don't care about lie detectors and I, personally, have never relied on that as a gauge.

Like I've said - the story has holes you can drive trucks through.

Item - He claims he went to YouTube in January 08 because the Obama campaign wouldn't get back to him.

Item - He claims Obama murdered someone because the guy talked to him...on behalf of the Obama campaign...in September 07.

What conclusion would you draw from that?

[alogicbit]

psst ...your mommy just called, it's dinner time.

[Jon Sensae]

Personally I believe the rumors to be false. After saying that I think its the clintons supporters more than the McCain supporters yelling about the tape.

Of course the Clintons would want this tape NOW not later. But the republicans on the other hand. I think I would wait maybe a month before the main election then play it. Kinda like the way the democrats did the DUI thing to BUSH in 2000, and Repubs swiftboating Kerry before the election in 2004,.

As I said I dont think there is one, but if there was why would the republicans release it now? It would a lot harder to counter it with only one month left to the election. Of course now im thinking like a dirtbag myself haha.

[John Freeman]

Search through the archives of the following blog to get a feeling of who Sinclair is:

http://themitchandnanshow.wordpress.com/

Notice the posts where he made DEATH THREATS not only to the people at the blog, but also at the lawyer who is representing a blogger he is suing.

After we called him on his death threats, he blamed it on us, claiming we made them or hacked his account.

And the 'Tards ate it up!

This is the kind of people we are dealing with here.

There is no rational thought, or reason to their support for him. They would be getting more done if they just donated their money to Clinton, not Sinclair.

That's how he gets his money: online donations through PayPal.

[MBW]

Clinton doesn't have this tape, if it exists. If she did have it, she couldn't use it, as the blowback would do her more harm than good. She got more bad press from one simple answer to a question about Rev. Wright than Obama did for proudly touting his twenty years of spiritual mentorship from the Reverend.

If the tape exists, which I seriously doubt, the Republicans have it and are saving it until well after the nomination is settled. Like many others, I don't see how something like this could possibly be kept secret for so long, but then again, look how far along we were in the Primaries before we found out about Wright.

[Vortex]

Wow fluffy, what a racist and ignorant stereotype. There are racist dems and racist republicans. Also, I bet it would blow your mind if I told you that other races besides the white race can be racist.

[BountyHunter]

To those who trash anyone who considers that Larry Sinclair's allegations MAY be true...

Would it matter to you if they were true, or are you for Obama regardless?

Maybe this is the first question you should ask yourself, and then decide whether you're really undertaking a "critical analysis".

[Paul]

BH - you didn't answer the question. I presented papatard contradicting himself on one of the key claims he makes. So, please don't come at me with "critical analysis."

Answer my question. Don't be a passive-aggressive pussy.

I have stated repeatedly that I want to see the evidence. papatard won't show it. To anyone.

[John]

I think the most telling thing about the rumor of a tape of Michelle Obama is that both those on the right and left seem to believe it is character. No one seems to be suggesting that it would be impossible for Michelle Obama to do such a thing. The doubt seems to be whether or not there is a tape of her doing such a thing.

I think that not only says a lot about Michelle and Senator Obama, but it says a lot about those backing him -- that they would do that even if he and Michelle were blatant racists!

[Paul]

John - Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia

[Art]

I don't know but I think the speculation is weak on both sides. I also have a feeling Larry J wouldn't say anything if he wasn't sure. I also point out he himself never said there'd be a bombshell - he reported others were saying it.

Larry's been talking about this for some time. He's really up against it trying to get what are supposed to be professional journalists to read what he's written and report correctly. I've read what he's written and I can see they've been wrong time and again.

Is there such a DVD? Did Larry make it up? He could have in theory. The story also says the Republicans don't want this out until October. For obvious reasons. Polls say they will whip Obama but get their butts kicked by Hillary. They need Obama to take the nomination so they can keep the White House.

Larry was initially an Edwards supporter but reassessed his position when Edwards dropped out. He is not in the Hillary camp but he decidedly does not like Obama - and for documented reasons. He's also had quite a lot to say (and cogently) about the 'Obamatrons' as he calls them.

Whether Larry claimed Rove would be indicted is moot. Bringing it up is lame. Larry was one of the first Joe Wilson and Valerie P talked to after Rove struck. He's highly regarded no matter what the snotty bloggers say and he's comported himself flawlessly.

[Clara Peller]

Larry Johnson -- Where's the beef?

[Mick for Obama]

Krandl: You by far are a highly ignorant and bigotted person. Do me a favor; when and if you ever see a black person, spout your racist shit to them to their face. I think you should have the balls to speak your mind instead of being a coward; closeted hate monger. as for your little racist rant:

##Mrs. Obama is not only a fair target, but she's a perfect portal view into the retrograde racialist views of Barack Obama.

So Cindy McCain is a fair target; as is Bill Clinton, Mit Romney's many wives and Hucksters wives as well.

##Michelle Obama really HASN'T been proud of her country.

Who the fuck has? Iraq; Guantanamo; thousands of Iraqi's Dead, more people in prison than any other industrialized country, NAFTA, CAFTA, Telecommunications Act of 1996, Extrodinary Rendition; Ronald Regan trickle down economics, George Bush Sr. Tax Cuts to the wealthy; less money with more costs -- etc etc etc.

And rampant racist assholes spouting shit off when they're anonymous yet holding their mouth shut in public.

##Michelle Obama really DOES believe that the unfathomably liberal Ivy League is a bastion of racism.

That's a racial inference; I've never seen her say anything of that nature; speak truths not racist fears please. Or cite sources to back up your ignorant claims.

##It's reasonable to infer that Barack's beliefs are similar to those of the woman he shares his bed with.

I think rich ass white people are the bastion of America, and bain to their "Priviliedge" profiting off holding other cultures down, from the Irish to the Blacks. My woman doesn't feel that way; and cries when I speak like that. Its pretty night and day with us asshat. Opposites attract.

*I'm not black; but I am Irish fuck face*

##Ironically, since Barack is a good politicians, he knows that you can't tell racists (e.g. Americans)that they're racist to their face. That'll make 'em defensive.

Yeah; yet racists can't spout their racist remarks to people's faces because they're ignorant cowards.

(eg. Americans) as in "All americans" are racist; that's such bullshit in itself, 20% i'd say; you're the minority asshat; grow up; get educated and stop blaming others for your fears, darkie did nothing to you except be held down and called names.

##But Michelle Obama is not a professional politician. She accidentally tells the truth about her ridiculous beliefs some times. (E.g., "As a Black Man in America, Barack could get shot at a gas station.")

That's a truth. You obviously haven't been to certain cities and probably stick to your white power areas.

##I'm sorry, if Michelle Obama thinks that THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT should get involved to help the perpetrators(!)in a schoolyard fight where a few black kids tried to stomp a white kid to death (remember, Jena was Black-on-White violence), than she has NO RIGHT to complain about demagoguery.

Black on White violence caused after White on black violence and a fucking noose hung from a tree asshole. Racist faggot white kids started that shit; and the black kids fought back. Fuck you for trying to blame black people for what your kind did. *not all white people are racist just this asshat and his friends*

##Michelle Obama is a race hustler. She's been given a lot of stuff because her skin is the right color. And her response is to hate on America.

You're a racist; and you infer a lot of stuff because of your ignorant hatred. What has she been given because of her race? I'm sorry more blacks in this country are shit on than whites so fucking take that ignorant somewhere else, and as I said before, walk the streets and be open about your ignorance; you ignorant asshat.

And don't come back with this; she got her education because she was black shit; if that were the case; harvard/princeton would be full of black kids; instead of rich; upper class; white kids, who possibly share your beliefs. Obama's roomate in college said herself she was pissed when Mrs. Obama was her roomate; because she was Black. Asshat.

##Fuck her.

Fuck you; whitey -- you bigoted cowardly asshat.

[kevin]

If the video exists and the Republicans have it, then I assure you it will not come out until October. There has been enough buzz about this, and it has gotten to enough members of the press, who have verified that it is a legitimate story through more than one source...Thus, there could be something to this. But again, we are going to have to wait and see on this one. As for it coming out this week, anyone who thinks that Karl Rove's fleat would release something this juicy now, obviously knows nothing about political campaigns.

[Limo Driver]

Larry Sinclair was not the first guy ...nor the last...that Obama hooked up with to smoke rock cocaine and engage in gay sex.

Other stories will come out of the woodwork when the Bossies of the world start throwing money around in Chicago...can you say Purple Hotel staff?

The mainstream media has yet to "crack" a reporter's notebook in Chicago. It's all been left to the Obama-loving local Chicago press up until now.

Just as with Wright, the MSM will not cover these stories until they have no choice...in the Wright case it was when the YouTube video became too widespread to ignore.