Mommy Government

Swiped from the latest edition of Cato Policy Report.

But what if I don't want to give a crap?

Comments

[Aresen]

I've spent my whole life developing and polishing my cynicism. I'm not going to give it up now.

In my view, people who ask me not to be cynical probably have a hidden motive.

[Andy]

In Hillary's defense, if the government (aka taxplayers) is going to pay for people's medical treatments, it is in their interest to try to whip the sheep into shape.

Seriously, that a sentence like that could come out of a candidates' mouth (or their spouses') and people don't run screaming is scary.

[Franklin Harris]

The good news is that there is no actual policy Obama can implement to make me give a crap, at least not until the government gets that top secret mind-control experiment that everyone knows about to work.

[Di Di Di]

You have a job for a political magazine and you "don't want to give a crap" about the state of affairs that is American life? Oh, right, you want the choice not to be informed or involved. And the reason, ahem, you haven't made this choice (presumably ever since you became politically aware) is what, exactly?

[Hugh Akston]

The people at reason have graciously declined their right not to give a shit in order to defend that very right for the rest of us.

Go get 'em boys.

[Kevin Breen]

Radley Balko didn't say he didn't give a crap. He just asked about the freedom to not give a crap.

[Orange Line Special]

I guess if one of those two - or McCain - wins it wouldn't be all bad, would it? I mean, Reason could post whines like this... and lots of them!

Meanwhile, if any patriotic libs want to help reduce the chances of all three, go to their appearances, ask them the questions the MSM is afraid to ask, and then upload their responses to video sharing sites.

Which is more effective: hanging freeway signs, or discrediting politicians?

[NavinK]

Balko means that he doesn't want to give a crap about his own *health*, not about the candidates invasive visions, which demand that you have to be healthy or else...

Everyone has to right to be sick and I'll defend my influenza with a .44 if I have to.

[Trevor]

In Hillary's defense, if the government (aka taxplayers) is going to pay for people's medical treatments, it is in their interest to try to whip the sheep into shape.

Not true. People who die from obesity, lung cancer, and other lifestyle issues spend much less on medical care than health-nuts who live into their 80's and 90's. Source:
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/archive/1549-1676/5/2/pdf/10.1371_journal.pmed.0050029-L.pdf

Healthcare would already be a tax burden, curing obesity and outlawing smoking would be even worse. It's in the financial interest of a healthcare state to have fat, cancerous citizens.

[halfdoghalfdeer]

You shouldn't be surprised to find Ms Obama's comments were taken out of context. She was talking about how change takes place. Her comments where directed towards her husbands supporters. She was telling them that if they wanted true changes in policies, that they'd have to be involved and work for those changes. That they couldn't rely on a president making their lives better.

Here's the section of the speech on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYXDYjHtsG8

The comments in question start at about 7 minutes in.

[Di Di Di]

He just asked about the freedom to not give a crap.

Right, that's what I assumed. So he's taking one for the team, then, by staying informed and involved? What a burden he must bear, I'm weeping softly right now at the thought.

Look, being healthy, informed, and aware should be the absolute minimum required of somebody to get anywhere in life. Know something about what's happening and keep in shape. It isn't that hard, and it reduces lots and lots of problems. You, reading this now, are at least somewhat politically aware, so why do you think ignorance is good?

This is way beyond a Voltaire saying that he'd defend to the death your right to inject heroin even though he'd never do it himself. Hillary and Michelle both talked about the blindingly obvious. What is wrong with effective dietary guidelines? Or smoking cessation programs? Or encouraging civic involvement? Yes, yes, I know you're going to say that these are code words for banning smoking entirely, forcing sugar limits, but neither said those things. To focus on one example: do you believe it is impossible for humans to band together to solve problems like America's outlandish weight gain? Why can't we fund research that would create a usable diet that would understand American food choices? Would save billions in healthcare costs and improve quality of life tremendously.

[Di Di Di]

People who die from obesity, lung cancer, and other lifestyle issues spend much less on medical care than health-nuts who live into their 80's and 90's.

Uh yeah:

Because of differences in life expectancy, however, lifetime health expenditure was highest
among healthy-living people and lowest for smokers.

Hey, after I die from smoking, I don't pay anything for healthcare! What a country!

[skavoovie]

Obama must be an amazing candidate if the worst you can do is his wife saying that change doesn't come as top-down handouts - you'll have to work if you want it.

[C]

Man, I didn't think that my eyes could roll that far back in my head...

When someone tells me that I have to "stay informed," I've found that they usually want me to stay informed about what interests them, not me. This, I can do without.

The problem with smoking cessation programs, effective dietary guidelines, and civic involvement is simple - I don't care to force, coerce, or nag people into changing their lifestyle, and I don't want to pay for it to be done in my name.

Apparently the difference between someone voluntarily entering a smoking treatment program because it would be good for his health, and a person being forced to enter a government-mandated, taxpayer-funded smoking cessation program so he can get his taxpayer-funded, government-mandated health coverage, is just to subtle for some to grasp.

- C

[Other Matt]

The good news is that there is no actual policy Obama can implement to make me give a crap

Oh, he can. It's probably not the way you'd give a crap that MOB (or is that MOAB?) intended, but I'm sure when you're getting hit with lack of "meaningful" contribution for health care taxes, you'll give a crap.

Obama must be an amazing candidate if the worst you can do is his wife saying that change doesn't come as top-down handouts - you'll have to work if you want it.

When a man says absolutely nothing of any substance whatsoever, allowing Koolaid intoxicated minions to fill in the blanks as they read the word "change", it's not so much an "amazing candidate" as there is nothing there you can argue with. So, his wife says something of substance, at least something that has an inkling of an actual result instead of some ambiguous word such as "change".

You think it's inappropriate to respond to these occasional rare tidbits of what he envisions this "change" to be, even though they come from someone else so he can maintain his lack of substantive commentary? Or, are you one of those who believe themselves better off deciding for yourself what you think he means by "change" and rolling dice to see if you were right when the bill comes?

Historically, socialists who want "change" don't typically work out very well for people who care about individuals.

[GILMORE]

Look, being healthy, informed, and aware should be the absolute minimum required of somebody to get anywhere in life

...and ergo, we need to establish mandatory minimums so that those that prefer to be fat drunk and stupid are forced to 'better themselves' at the expense of the healthy, informed and aware.

I'd prefer we just let them rot on their own?

[R C Dean]

Look, being healthy, informed, and aware should be the absolute minimum required of somebody to get anywhere in life

Oh, I dunno. It looks to me like she is about to get into the White House with only one out of three.

[Other Matt]

Look, being healthy, informed, and aware should be the absolute minimum required of somebody to get anywhere in life

I find it interesting the inherent bias in that statement. If I were to say, for example, being intelligent, articulate, and coherent should be the absolute minimum, it shows my bias towards valuing logical thinking and intelligence. This is the basis of my despising joe and his moronic crap, by the way, but I digress. I don't particularly believe it's the government's buisiness to enforce this, though, as I don't particularly believe that I have any moral authority to be the one that decides what qualities are more important than others.

In your statement, the "should" is telling, it infers some kind of moral judgement you have made in regards to these particular items, declaring them bedrock for personhood I guess.

I'm curious as to why these particular items "should" be the absolute minimum. Why not, say, my three above? Why not "White, self hating, and joelike in your approach to the world" if you're interested in urban planning? It would be interesting to understand your logic of choosing these particular items for governmental preference.

[Flow]

skavoovie, those sounded like top down mandates to me.

God forbid I not be "allowed" to not give a crap.

[Dean Wormer]

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

[joe]

This is where the agonizing commitment to faux-objecitivity that characterized both the mainstream press and thhird parties gets them into trouble.

They wanted to make a point about "six of one, half dozen of the other," and so they clipped and misrepresented what Michelle Obama was talking about so they could make it look similar to what Hillary was saying.

[J]

Look, being healthy, informed, and aware should be the absolute minimum required of somebody to get anywhere in life

I'm overweight and could work on my blood pressure and cholesterol. I also am "informed" and "aware" at least of certain political things I find interesting and scientific ones I need to know. But I am more than fine at getting somewhere in life, even if you and other nannystaters are crying for my weight problem.

Not that I have any problem with funding research - feel free to donate some money to my lab.

[skavoovie]

I'm not rooting for Obama, I'm not American anyway - I just wanted to whine because the quote was clearly taken out of context, and I follow US politics pretty much exclusively through the Economist and Reason, so I would prefer the coverage non-biased as possible.

It might be that Obama never says anything substantial, but that wasn't substantial either, it was a pretty cheap shot. I'm certain that a good libertarian case can be made against Obama in a single paragraph without leaving me feel cheated when I look into it.

[Other Matt]

Look, being healthy, informed, and aware should be the absolute minimum required of somebody to get anywhere in life

I'm overweight and could work on my blood pressure and cholesterol...etc

Precisely why I don't consider those three the commanding three that should mandate govt interference. As you say, feel free to donate some money to my lab., you're doing something of value. Contrast that with this mindless partisan bullshit "...and so they clipped and misrepresented what Michelle Obama was talking about so they could make it look similar to what Hillary was saying." and I'm sure you agree that my three are much better if we have to have three for the govt to get on board with, though I will grant that if joe was aware and informed it might improve the mindless factor to a significant extent.

[joe]

Would the question "Is it true?" be relevant in deciding whether that comment was "mindless" and "bullshit?"

Not if you're Other Matt.

[joe]

If I was informed and aware, I might know who Michelle Obama was talking to, what she was talking about, and what her comment meant.

You know, unlike Other Matt.

[Janet]

This is going to have a disproportionate effect on women, children and minorities. It is all a plot by the white male hierarchical patriarchy to get all the money and resources.

[dhex]

don't worry joe, barack will help us shed our cynicism.

or something.

frankly both quotes, both in and out of context, are creepy as hell. but i find the imperial presidency creepy as hell so the creep ride will only continue to get creepier as we demand more from our emperors.

but the underlying sentiment? yeah, fuck them. i know it's just political rhetoric, but fuck them nonetheless.

still better than mccain, which isn't saying much.

[joe]

If a comet struck Manhattan, would it leave a disparate-impact crater?

[joe]

dhex,

Telling people who want to volunteer for Obama what they will have to do is creepy? I thought you libertoids supported like-minded people associating freely with each other.

That quote would, indeed, be creepy, if it was, as Cato claimed, "Barack Obama's Plan for You." But it isn't, and it is very easy to confirm that.

[TallDave]

I feel much better informed thanks to Obama. Now I know there are 57 states and Allied troops liberated Auschwitz.

[Hugh Akston]

Look, being healthy, informed, and aware should be the absolute minimum required of somebody to get anywhere in life.

In my experience, being obsequious, pandering, and manipulative is the the absolute minimum required of somebody to get anywhere in life. Maybe we should start enforcing some training programs in that direction.

That quote would, indeed, be creepy, if it was, as Cato claimed, "Barack Obama's Plan for You." But it isn't, and it is very easy to confirm that.

joe, please kindly link us all to the quote of Barack Obama saying "this is not my plan for you."

[Old Bull Lee]

I'm a well-read health nut who keeps up on current events, but she's using the word "demand," which is enough to get my middle finger up.

Besides, do we really want volunteer work being done by a bunch of slaves? I would think the quality of the work being done would suffer.

[J sub D]

But what if I don't want to give a crap?

That kind of selfish individualism is un-American and will be stomped out.

Radley's obviously an egotistical hedonist. He thinks he owns his own self.

Fool!

[Marc]

But what if I don't want to give a crap?

Your crap belongs to the people, and we'll take as much of it as we need.

[R C Dean]

In my experience, being obsequious, pandering, and manipulative is the the absolute minimum required of somebody to get anywhere in life. Maybe we should start enforcing some training programs in that direction.

That would be public school, yes?

[Angry African]

I just wonder how much Bill is behind all the Hillary stuff? So Bill - let's talk. Puh-lease let Hillary step aside with dignity. Okay, fair enough - when she is ready. But don't make it more difficult than what it should be. There is no "cover up". Except if we can call your spin since Monica and now the "Hillary working class hero" and "wrap up in June" bull. Back off Bill. You had your chance. No be a good ex-President and go talk to someone who cares. http://angryafrican.net/2008/05/27/bill-just-back-off-will-ya/

[J sub D]

Look, being healthy, informed, and aware should be the absolute minimum required of somebody to get anywhere in life. [Keith Richards] Know something about what's happening and keep in shape. It isn't that hard, and it reduces lots and lots of problems. [Jackie Gleason, Howard Hughes]You, reading this now, are at least somewhat politically aware, so why do you think ignorance is good?

Not good, rather an unalienable right.

This is way beyond a Voltaire saying that he'd defend to the death your right to inject heroin even though he'd never do it himself. Hillary and Michelle both talked about the blindingly obvious. What is wrong with effective dietary guidelines? Or smoking cessation programs? Or encouraging civic involvement? Yes, yes, I know you're going to say that these are code words for banning smoking entirely, forcing sugar limits, but neither said those things.

You don't follow politics much, do you? Seat belt laws "for the children". Seat belt laws for adults but no primary enforcement. Seat belt checkpoints. No smoking areas in restaurants, no smoking at all in restaurants, no smoking in bars, no smoking in hotel rooms, no smoking in your car with children present, no smoking in your own damned apartment. The road is all too familiar.

To focus on one example: do you believe it is impossible for humans to band together to solve problems like America's outlandish weight gain? Why can't we fund research that would create a usable diet that would understand American food choices? Would save billions in healthcare costs and improve quality of life tremendously.

Saving health care costs is a lie previosly debunked on this thread. If you can't figure out what a healthy diet is these days then, IMHO, you're too stupid to breed. Still I don't support any eugenics program.

[Invisible Finger]

Apparently showing up in Congress and merely voting "Present" counts as "involved". Doesn't even have to balls to vote "No".

[dhex]

Telling people who want to volunteer for Obama what they will have to do is creepy? I thought you libertoids supported like-minded people associating freely with each other.

well obviously i want to outlaw it HEY WAIT A MINUTE THAT'S A MISDIRECTION!

i expect more from you.

is the sentiment creepy? yes, which is why i said "with or without context" - i find amway buildup shit creepy. the cult of the imperial presidency? creepy and dangerous, but mostly creepy.

of course in light of the alternatives obama 08 but still, creepy.

[joe]

Apparently showing up in Congress and merely voting "Present" counts as "involved". Doesn't even have to balls to vote "No".

Barack Obama has never voted Present in the United States Senate.

Check your talking points. Maybe you should just go with cut-and-paste to make sure.

[ChrisO]

News flash: Obama and Clinton don't really give a crap about my health or well-being. They just want to steal from me to give to their favored constituencies.

McCain is scarier, because it appears that he actually believes all that crap he spews.

[Isaac Bartram]

But what if I don't want to give a crap?

rebel...reactionary...disharmonious...

unmutual

[Chris]

But what if I don't want to give a crap?

If you didn't give a crap, you wouldn't have asked the question.

I'm strongly in favor of limited government, but not in defense of anyone's right to be a cynical misanthrope- you can do that under the nanniest of nanny states already.
What limited government provides is freedom and justice, but that's not free- that actually calls for you to give a crap. People who care make the world work, people who don't merely opt out of the process.

[juris imprudent]

Di Di Di, just because I don't give a shit, doesn't mean I can't give you shit.

You too joe.